Re: Guest Post - Udacity

1

Link buggered again. Something is wrong with the linky bits of the posting software, methinks.


Posted by: togolosh | Link to this comment | 11-22-13 9:10 AM
horizontal rule
2

Now now. All research conducted in established or commonly accepted educational settings, involving normal educational practices, such as:

a. research on regular and special education instructional strategies
b. research on the effectiveness of or the comparison among instructional techniques,
curricula, or classroom management methods

...is generally exempt from IRB review.

("Thanks for setting me straight!" you say. No problem; all in a day's work.)


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 11-22-13 9:14 AM
horizontal rule
3

Ah good. I was looking for the text rfts quoted.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 11-22-13 9:17 AM
horizontal rule
4

I thought you still had to submit projects that were exempt from review to the IRB to show that they are exempt from review.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 11-22-13 9:17 AM
horizontal rule
5

4: here you have to get a waiver, yes. If your research involves human subjects, I mean. Just studying dusty, old documents, including books and whatnot, is fine, so I'm going back to that. It was easier anyway. Live people are squirmy and unpredictable and often say inconvenient things.


Posted by: Von Wafer | Link to this comment | 11-22-13 9:20 AM
horizontal rule
6

...is generally exempt from IRB review.

I looked this up because I wasn't sure. It's not exempt from review. It's reviewed to see that it is exempt.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 11-22-13 9:23 AM
horizontal rule
7

I think Thrun's failure ought not be taken as the death knell for MOOCs. One of the big failings they have is that interaction between students is hard, and that's one of the ways people learn best, is by talking to someone who only just got the point of the lesson like five minutes ago. I'm willing to bet that if students were better able to interact with each other I completion rates would be higher. They'll never be as good as F2F, but it would help.

Part of the problem with the MOOC model is just the difficulty of translating the immediacy of F2F interaction into the digital realm.


Posted by: togolosh | Link to this comment | 11-22-13 9:39 AM
horizontal rule
8

Making students pay to be in a trial seems wrong to me. Refunding all or part of the fees for the non-completers seems like the only fair thing to do. It's not the fault of the students that the teaching medium sucked.


Posted by: togolosh | Link to this comment | 11-22-13 9:40 AM
horizontal rule
9

7: The MOOC as part of the "flipped classroom" certainly makes sense. It seems like most commentary on the "flipped classroom" consists of people saying "OMG! Professors should have discussions instead of just lecturing! Whoda thunk it! As if I don't lead discussions all the time! These reformers think we're stuck in the stone age of the Sage On The Stage blah blah blah". Well, the majority of my college classes were the Sage On The Stage. Could stand some improvement.


Posted by: CRyptic bned | Link to this comment | 11-22-13 9:50 AM
horizontal rule
10

I would like to try teaching "flipped classroom" style. But it's not worth the risk. Maybe after I have tenure.


Posted by: Unfoggetarian: "Pause endlessly, then go in" (9) | Link to this comment | 11-22-13 9:54 AM
horizontal rule
11

9. Are you btocked, or is your phone's backlight on the blink?

But yes. When I first encountered the idea of the "flipped classroom", my second thought was, "... or Oxbridge tutorials, as they've been known for the last few hundred years."*

[* My first thought was, "Is flipped classroom an embarrassed euphemism for fucked classroom?]


Posted by: chris y | Link to this comment | 11-22-13 9:55 AM
horizontal rule
12

6: Well, or something a little weirdly in-betweener than that -- it's of the "CATEGORIES OF RESEARCH ACTIVITIES EXEMPT FROM REVIEW" if your office of responsible research practices or whatever your local version likes to be called determines that it is exempt. So you're supposed to have it confirmed by someone, but then it's not reviewed by the actual board.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 11-22-13 9:57 AM
horizontal rule
13

These reformers think we're stuck in the stone age of the Sage On The Stage

Alternative approaches include the Mentor in the Centre, the Guide On One Side, the Didact at the Back and the Guru in the Ulu.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 11-22-13 10:04 AM
horizontal rule
14

I am not so into the "flipped classroom" when the model requires having to videotape yourself giving a bunch of lectures the students are supposed to watch outside of class, as it seems often to do, at least in my neck of the woods.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 11-22-13 10:04 AM
horizontal rule
15

I would like to try teaching "flipped classroom" style. But it's not worth the risk
Quite risky, it's hard to get all the furniture to stay attached to the ceiling.


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 11-22-13 10:05 AM
horizontal rule
16

Every morning when the students wake up it's like the sage came to life and moved overnight!


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 11-22-13 10:06 AM
horizontal rule
17

that's one of the ways people learn best, is by talking to someone who only just got the point of the lesson like five minutes ago

Maybe this justifies my practicing of throwing together my lecture notes for any given day at the last possible moment.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 11-22-13 10:21 AM
horizontal rule
18

-ing+e


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 11-22-13 10:22 AM
horizontal rule
19

13 is great, and definitely should be used by every Professor's hype man before the lecture begins. "Utah State organic chemistry 103B ... ARE YOU READY"


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 11-22-13 10:24 AM
horizontal rule
20

12: Yes. It's a much faster process than actual review.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 11-22-13 10:24 AM
horizontal rule
21

11 -- let's flip the class, bring the old school back


Posted by: Prof. Montell Jordan (Oxon.) | Link to this comment | 11-22-13 10:30 AM
horizontal rule
22

Whoops, link fixed.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 11-22-13 10:37 AM
horizontal rule
23

I hate the flipped classroom concept so very, very, VERY much.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 11-22-13 10:38 AM
horizontal rule
24

I love the idea of lecturers having hype men. That would be so awesome.


Posted by: x.trapnel | Link to this comment | 11-22-13 10:40 AM
horizontal rule
25

Someone else already came up with the Guide on the Side in all seriousness.

I don't know much about these, but I have been thinking about looking for some free/cheap courses to do (to counteract the boredom). I should actually look.


Posted by: asilon | Link to this comment | 11-22-13 10:42 AM
horizontal rule
26

23: Why?


Posted by: Unfoggetarian: "Pause endlessly, then go in." (9) | Link to this comment | 11-22-13 10:43 AM
horizontal rule
27

26:

1. The videos seem like a wild amount of work, which will only sort of transfer from instructor to instructor.

2. At best, students can learn highly computational parts of the material, like derivative shortcuts, but I wouldn't trust that they really gained an understanding of anything conceptual. They can already get that level of computational understanding and work through examples from a textbook.

3. (To me) it seems obvious that the classroom shouldn't be 100% workshop nor 100% lecture, but a blend. So under the ideal flipped classroom, you'll lecture for a few minutes on a topic, have them work on a problem while you wander around and help them (in groups or individually), back to lecture, etc.

This is what everyone should be doing, period. It has nothing to do with the novelty of making your own videos, it's just good teaching. The whole video gimmick is a red herring, except one that would require a wild investment of time and energy up front, and then it's a PITA to modify and evolve them as time passes. The whole concept drives me nuts.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 11-22-13 10:51 AM
horizontal rule
28

Alternative approaches include...
The cove from above
The mensch from the bench


Posted by: Annelid Gustator | Link to this comment | 11-22-13 11:13 AM
horizontal rule
29

the Guru in the Ulu

In the what now? Around here an ulu is a type of knife. The Yup'ik word is uluaq, but I think the English word is actually borrowed from Inupiaq, where it is apparently just ulu.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 11-23-13 12:03 AM
horizontal rule
30

Core Temperature:64 -> 29


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 11-23-13 5:04 AM
horizontal rule
31

This?


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 11-23-13 10:42 AM
horizontal rule
32

I just read another article on Udacity, along with the one linked in the OP. I like to think that I am unmatched in my contempt for Silicon Valley blowhards, but Thrun really does come across as a thoughtful, responsible guy, particularly for someone with a tech company. He is pretty impressively forthright in admitting that his grand experiment, which he went far out on a limb for, didn't work, and doesn't actually have the power to remedy giant social structural problems with education. That's a good thing.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 11-23-13 10:56 AM
horizontal rule
33

Taken care of in the eruv


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 11-23-13 11:20 AM
horizontal rule
34

I live in an eruv and nobody seems to be particularly taking care of the MOOCs.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 11-23-13 11:37 AM
horizontal rule
35

Maybe it's a shitty eruv. I first learned about it here, so clearly nobody is advertising it very well.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 11-23-13 11:40 AM
horizontal rule
36

33 made me realize I've always put the stress on the wrong syllable in eruv. You know, in the like two times I've ever had occasion to say it aloud.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 11-23-13 11:48 AM
horizontal rule
37

Is 2 really true? I've definitely submitted stuff to math ed publications which carried the instructions to make sure all IRB protocol had been observed. And I thought my math ed in the know friend did IRB submissions from time to time.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 11-23-13 12:54 PM
horizontal rule
38

As amended by 12 it is. At my school, everything goes to the IRB even if you are just proving something is exempt.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 11-23-13 1:05 PM
horizontal rule
39

31: That must be it; thanks. Googling just brought up a bunch of stuff about the knives, presumably because Google knows where I live.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 11-23-13 1:08 PM
horizontal rule
40

It's probably a bit more lax at schools where there aren't more researchers than teachers. And sending something to an IRB to prove it is exempt is very much easier than submitting something for actual review. Most of our stuff requires quarterly reports to the IRB plus special notice if we fuck something up.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 11-23-13 1:18 PM
horizontal rule
41

39: I also got results about the knife, so probably not a Google localization thing. I found my link through "in the ulu".


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 11-23-13 2:38 PM
horizontal rule
42

Only half of my first-page Google results were about the knife, but none were about military slang. The other half mostly referred to a Hawai'ian tree, with one hit for a VC firm named after the tree and one for a band "known for [an] original blend of experimental jazzfunkrock [and] booty-shaking grooves ..."


Posted by: joyslinger | Link to this comment | 11-23-13 2:44 PM
horizontal rule