Re: More Family Fun

1

He's being ridiculous. They can break if you drop them, or crack if you use the tip to pry something (yeah, you, mom), but for cutting a cake (or anything else that's meant to be eaten) they're just fine. That said, they're kind of silly items that don't have much utility beyond being neato. They're light and very sharp initially, but when they dull, you have to send them in for service, which you really don't have to do with a steel knife, no matter what the knife snobs tell you.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 12-10-13 11:29 AM
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2

I wonder if my family would be better behaved if I blogged publicly.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 12-10-13 11:31 AM
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I didn't actually read the post before clicking on this thread (long story) and I was 35 or so words into comment 1 before I realized ogged wasn't talking about babies.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 12-10-13 11:31 AM
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If a flint knife was good enough for your early hominid ancestors, it's good enough for you. Next you'll be wanting pre-made cordage!


Posted by: OPINIONATED AUSTRALOPITHECINE | Link to this comment | 12-10-13 11:34 AM
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Anything will break if you use it wrong. I didn't have an oyster knife so I used a paring knife to open oysters and broke the tip. A knife is made to cut things, it will cut pie.


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 12-10-13 11:43 AM
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I am curious what exactly your brother thought the ceramic knife was good for cutting, if apple pie was too risky?

(I'm assuming he actually thinks it would be fine for cutting apple pie in his capable hands, but he assumes you're careless and would grind it hard against the bottom and sides of the glass pan, or something. Not that that would really hurt it, but. Nothing else makes any sense.)


Posted by: urple | Link to this comment | 12-10-13 11:54 AM
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I imagine his wife thinks 6.2 about him, without her tutelage, and he is therefore applying the same logic to me.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 12-10-13 11:59 AM
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I think ceramic knives are silly, but I would probably ask someone not to use my steel chef's knife to cut a pie that's in a glass pan, because it would dull the knife unnecessarily. Use a cheapo knife to cut pie.


Posted by: Bave | Link to this comment | 12-10-13 12:01 PM
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9

Anything will break if you use it wrong.

What about breakaway bottles?


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 12-10-13 12:01 PM
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I am curious what exactly your brother thought the ceramic knife was good for cutting, if apple pie was too risky?

Opening envelopes?


Posted by: chris y | Link to this comment | 12-10-13 12:03 PM
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11

The problem isn't the pie - it's the glass pie plan. Cutting on glass or metal or stone countertops will dull the edge of any knife. Unlike steel knives, which can be rehoned or resharpened, ceramic knives that have their edge ruined are pretty much just useless.

It doesn't require "hard grinding" which, contrary to one of the comments above absolutely will hurt it, and may well ruin it with just a handful of uses - even normal, careful usage will eventually ruin a good knife edge when you're cutting on glass or metal.


Posted by: Ken | Link to this comment | 12-10-13 12:06 PM
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12

That actually sounds reasonable.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 12-10-13 12:30 PM
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13

I loved my ceramic knife but then chipped it, definitely through hard grinding. It had a few good months of being awesomely sharp, though.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 12-10-13 12:34 PM
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14

I'm having a real crisis of conscience here. I could defend my first comment, or concede that yes, cutting on glass is generally not recommended, for any knife. Dammit.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 12-10-13 12:39 PM
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I don't cut on glass or metal or stone with my good knives, either. I'm having a hard time seeing cutting and lifting a piece of pie as actual use, though.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 12-10-13 12:43 PM
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16

[redacted]


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 12-10-13 12:45 PM
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17

15: Right. Unless you really bore down on the bottom of the glass pan, it shouldn't be an issue.


Posted by: urple | Link to this comment | 12-10-13 12:46 PM
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18

What if I want a knife that will actually slice the glass along with the pie?


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 12-10-13 12:46 PM
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19

16 is full of unreasonableness far outstripping the issue with the knife.


Posted by: urple | Link to this comment | 12-10-13 12:48 PM
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20

[redacted]


Posted by: Witt | Link to this comment | 12-10-13 12:49 PM
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21

[redacted]


Posted by: Ladybird Johnson | Link to this comment | 12-10-13 12:51 PM
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22

When I say Ken's comment sounds reasonable, I mean that he sounds reasonable about knives. Actually hassling someone cutting a piece of pie about it seems rude to me -- if you're that fussy about your knives, protect the good ones from people better and make sure there's a pie knife near the pie. If you're not going to do that, you don't care enough to be rude.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 12-10-13 12:51 PM
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19 to 22.


Posted by: urple | Link to this comment | 12-10-13 12:54 PM
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[redacted].


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 12-10-13 12:55 PM
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25

[redacted]


Posted by: urple | Link to this comment | 12-10-13 12:56 PM
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26

What the fuck?


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 12-10-13 12:59 PM
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27

It was a very weird trip.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 12-10-13 1:00 PM
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28

It could have been worse, they could have asked Heebie to show them her thighs.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 12-10-13 1:00 PM
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29

Ceramic knives are excellent for digging wax and infected gunk out of kids' ears.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 12-10-13 1:01 PM
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30

[redacted] I'm not saying you should burn their house down, I'm really not. I'm just saying that gasoline and rags are cheap and their are a bunch of homeless guys in the Bay Area who could probably use some work.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 12-10-13 1:02 PM
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31

Nah, you might cut into the kid's skull which would be tragic because bone might dull the edge too.


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 12-10-13 1:02 PM
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32

[redacted]


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 12-10-13 1:03 PM
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33

[redacted]


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 12-10-13 1:05 PM
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34

[redacted]


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 12-10-13 1:05 PM
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35

Urple is completely right, of course. [redacted]


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 12-10-13 1:07 PM
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36

[redacted]


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 12-10-13 1:08 PM
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[redacted]

So much to redact!


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 12-10-13 1:09 PM
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38

[redacted]


Posted by: Bave | Link to this comment | 12-10-13 1:10 PM
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39

Here's the part I feel super awful about: these plans were set back in June or July. Later on, Jammies family plans a trip to visit his aunt, who is quickly dying of cancer, over Thanksgiving, and we chose to stick with our existing plans. Jammies is okay with this, but I feel awful.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 12-10-13 1:10 PM
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LizardBreath makes a good point - if you have an expensive knife that you don't want clattering around on glass pie plates, don't have it on the table with the pie. I generally don't fuss over someone using one of my good knives on a glass serving dish once or twice if that's what they happen to grab, because they're going to get resharpened sooner or later anyway.

[redacted]


Posted by: Ken | Link to this comment | 12-10-13 1:11 PM
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41

I have dear friends who are complete bedtime fascists, so I've gotten used to that idea as a possible approach for conceivably reasonable people -- bedtime always always happens at bedtime, and if you want to interact with children, do it before bedtime -- but with said friends, it's all communicated very clearly to everyone ahead of time, and they are not assholes about other stuff.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 12-10-13 1:12 PM
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42

[redacted]


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 12-10-13 1:13 PM
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43

For example, they don't kick people out at bedtime -- they just excuse themselves and put the kids to bed, or go home, depending on where they are when the time comes.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 12-10-13 1:13 PM
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44

We've been doing matinees and early dinners with our friends on Sundays, but the dinners are kind of ridiculously early, because their kids (same ages as ours, 9 & 6) need to be in bed by 7:30 (and we're sharing a babysitter). Our kids don't sit down for dinner until 7:30 most nights.

Now, I'm not saying they're being unreasonable - their school starts earlier than ours, and the 9-y.o. still takes naps when she gets the chance - but it sure is a different world.

Anyway, I think we've discussed before that being hyper-strict about extravagantly early bedtimes is basically the flag lapel pin of the helicopter parent.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 12-10-13 1:15 PM
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45

they just excuse themselves and put the kids to bed

This is perfectly acceptable! [redacted]


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 12-10-13 1:16 PM
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46

I honestly don't understand how working people can put their kids to bed at 7. If I put my kid to bed at 7 every night I pretty much wouldn't see my kid at all, except on weekends.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 12-10-13 1:17 PM
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47

43 is the human way to handle that form of strictness.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 12-10-13 1:17 PM
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48

45: Agreed!


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 12-10-13 1:17 PM
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49

What happened was that everything got started a little late, what with picking up Hawaii's prescription. So we didn't get over there until 6, and they probably were thinking we'd get there closer to 5:30. Also in hindsight, they tried to get all of us to stay at the hotel, under the guise of "Would it be easier for you all if we brought dinner over for everyone, not just Hawaii and Jammies?" To which I thought "Three kids and two parents and two grandparents in a hotel room (albeit with a sitting area) eating dinner? That does not sound fun" and so said "It's okay! The rest of us would still like to see you all!"

[redacted]


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 12-10-13 1:17 PM
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46: You've got me. We both work from home and 9:00 is a hard bedtime to maintain.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 12-10-13 1:18 PM
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51

[redacted]


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 12-10-13 1:18 PM
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52

For example, they don't kick people out at bedtime -- they just excuse themselves and put the kids to bed

I did this frequently with guests over during the first year or so of each of my kids' lives, and I would guess that at least about one-third of the time I ended up falling asleep myself.


Posted by: urple | Link to this comment | 12-10-13 1:19 PM
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I think we're overwhelming to them.

I can kinda sympathize with this. My kids are overwhelming to me a lot of the time and I'm used to them.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 12-10-13 1:20 PM
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54

"Three kids and two parents and two grandparents in a hotel room (albeit with a sitting area) eating dinner?"
Oh God I hate doing this. Even when you have a suite with a little kitchen just dealing with dishes and garbage and seating makes it worse than just throwing some snacks at the kids.


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 12-10-13 1:20 PM
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55

The above-cited bedtime friends do 7 pm and it works because he works at home and she goes in early so as to arrive home a bit before 5, but I can't imagine doing the same, myself.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 12-10-13 1:20 PM
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56

[redacted]


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 12-10-13 1:21 PM
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57

[redacted]


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 12-10-13 1:24 PM
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58

I can kinda sympathize with this. My kids are overwhelming to me a lot of the time and I'm used to them.

Sure. Still, though, don't host Thanksgiving if you can't bear actually hosting the people you invite!


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 12-10-13 1:25 PM
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59

Feeling of family obligation? If they invite you, but make it miserable enough that you refuse future invites, severing or weakening ties is on you, not on them.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 12-10-13 1:25 PM
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60

Crossed with 57.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 12-10-13 1:25 PM
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61

Maybe they're upset in general about being parents but one time SIL sat on brother's lap and that's all she wrote.


Posted by: | Link to this comment | 12-10-13 1:27 PM
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62

57: To deplete your travel budget before they get a really nice house with a pool.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 12-10-13 1:29 PM
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63

My boyfriend's sister has sorta made the opposite choice from everything we do: big house in a gated community, big screens in every room, SUV. Fine, except they are miserable and for one year, scheduled three quick visits with us because they loved our urban lifestyle so much and we were so great to visit. Which was fine the first couple times, but then got old because their kids aren't the way I like and will sit on a playground to play Angry Birds instead. They are also exceptionally picky eaters (they travel with Lunch-able type things for the kids) and have nut allergies.

Anyway, the last day of the third visit, I made oatmeal for breakfast. Since there was absolutely no chance the picky eater who also had a nut allergy would eat it, I put walnuts in it. I told people I added walnuts to it. The kid didn't eat it, which there hadn't been any chance of, and they left without mishap. However, they haven't offered to visit since, and I'm wondering how they interpreted the walnuts.

If I were truly hospitable, I'd have never put them in food, considering the kid has known nut allergies? But the kid was never going to eat the food, which I knew, so why should the rest of us have inferior oatmeal when walnuts are available to us?


Posted by: Megan | Link to this comment | 12-10-13 1:31 PM
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(Only one kid has nut allergies. The rest of family does not. This kid is also the pickiest eater and hadn't gone near any food other than the pre-packaged stuff he knows he likes.)


Posted by: Megan | Link to this comment | 12-10-13 1:32 PM
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61: To find out, ask SIL is the wears underwear regularly.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 12-10-13 1:36 PM
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Anyway, I guess I am the passive-aggresive sister-in-law in my story.

Why did they invite you? Because in their heads, they imagined the weekend going along on their schedule, since why would it not considering that they are governed by their schedule all the time. They forgot that not everyone is used to The Schedule and so it would cause problems.


Posted by: Megan | Link to this comment | 12-10-13 1:36 PM
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67

-t, +s


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 12-10-13 1:36 PM
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68

Here's the thing: Among my plethora of nieces and nephews are some who genuinely are much, MUCH more pleasant human beings if they go to bed at the same early hour every night (fortunately, they are tired little puppies who put themselves to bed, so there is no tension over this).

So I understand and can sympathize with a caregiving parent who hears "dinner guests arriving later than expected" or "grandparents showing up at bedtime" and thinks, Oy, tomorrow is going to be kind of a headache what with all of my kids being grouchy from overtiredness.

What I can't understand is being so unbelievably rigid that you move from the above mental thought to and therefore you cannot see your grandchildren tonight!!

I mean, seriously? That's the priority you want to set? Grandparents aren't going to be around forever.*

*This thought brought to you by the fact that said sobrinos really only have ONE of four grandparents in their lives.


Posted by: Witt | Link to this comment | 12-10-13 1:39 PM
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69

And your brother if he wears pants. It would be awkward, but probably easier than an open conversation about Thanksgiving.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 12-10-13 1:40 PM
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70

Grandparents aren't going to be around forever.

It seems like they will.


Posted by: Opinionated Prince William | Link to this comment | 12-10-13 1:41 PM
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71

But why invite us out in the first place, then?

Please tell me this isn't the same brother who a few years ago you were scolding about not participating in family get-togethers and holiday events.


Posted by: urple | Link to this comment | 12-10-13 1:41 PM
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72

70 is cracking me up.


Posted by: Witt | Link to this comment | 12-10-13 1:41 PM
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65: Excellent.


Posted by: Turgid Jacobian | Link to this comment | 12-10-13 1:46 PM
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74

||
Too funny not to threadjack
|>


Posted by: Turgid Jacobian | Link to this comment | 12-10-13 1:49 PM
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75

74. Wow! Now that is some fine snow-day entertainment.


Posted by: md 20/400 | Link to this comment | 12-10-13 2:06 PM
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76

Ceramic knives seem slightly lame, but I love my ceramic mandoline slicer.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 12-10-13 2:08 PM
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77

Related family fun: My sister, who lives cross country from me, sent me the following:

. . . [Husband] and I are going to be in the DC area to meet our niece. Since we'll be around, do you want to meet up for lunch some time while we're in town?

They're staying with his sister's family for five days.


Posted by: ydnew | Link to this comment | 12-10-13 2:42 PM
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78

[redacted]


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 12-10-13 2:48 PM
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79

[redacted]


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 12-10-13 2:53 PM
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77: I'd be livid.

Please tell me this isn't the same brother who a few years ago you were scolding about not participating in family get-togethers and holiday events.

I feel guilty admitting this, but yes? That's why we were touched and excited about the invitation, and why we didn't cancel in favor of seeing the aunt with cancer.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 12-10-13 3:13 PM
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81

That makes me more sympathetic towards them. Maybe they just know that other people aren't intense enough to handle their extreme time management program.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 12-10-13 3:22 PM
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82

Yeah. They basically really aren't jerks, and probably thought "Heebie has been upset that she never sees us, so let's invite her out." And Thanksgiving itself was really lovely. And I'm sure a million redacted comments above doesn't look incriminating at all, should they recognize themselves in the future.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 12-10-13 3:25 PM
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83

[redacted]


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 12-10-13 4:00 PM
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84

I must say that these redactions do not do the greatest job of concealing the information at issue.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 12-10-13 4:04 PM
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85

Damn, I can't find it now, but I once mentioned here something my cousin's wife had said, ignorant of the fact that a close friend had blabbed about the blog to them, and she saw it, and commented pseudonymously, and I responded, having no idea it was her. What I said wasn't even really accusatory, though she clearly took it that way. I only realized much later what had happened.

Luckily, she divorced my cousin and I never see either one of them anymore.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 12-10-13 4:09 PM
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86

I'm starting to feel like a jerk.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 12-10-13 4:22 PM
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87

A cool, sexy jerk? That's how I like to manage my self image.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 12-10-13 4:24 PM
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|| This is a slightly modified version of an email my sister got from her the person who puts together the alumni notes for her college class. I love this person:

Hi [year of class redacted],
We have not heard from you in a long time if ever for the class notes. Send me something! You moved, quit your job, didn't have a baby. Something by Jan 1st. How are the holidays treating you? I lost my job in October and had a seizure and spent Thanksgiving in the hospital- see if you can match that. Anywhoosers, it's great to get updates! Keep us informed!!!!!!

|>


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 12-10-13 4:32 PM
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I'm starting to feel like a jerk.

Anyone who doesn't feel like a jerk is lacking self-awareness.


Posted by: urple | Link to this comment | 12-10-13 4:34 PM
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90

Or in their refractory period.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 12-10-13 4:36 PM
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The refractory period is a time of diminished self-awareness.


Posted by: urple | Link to this comment | 12-10-13 4:38 PM
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|| Ok, so I have a document production, and we have to go through a ton of email. From a guy's msn account. Downloaded it to a msnbak file, and now to open, search, and sort. So apparently you have to have msn explorer, and you can only get that in dial up versions. Which you could maybe only do if you're hooked to a phone line? The whole thing seems crazy -- any of you smart people know that one weird trick that'll let me read this stuff? |>


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 12-10-13 4:43 PM
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86: As long as you don't say "Anywhoosers" you're fine. I think it's the aggregate of your anecdotes that puts you on the correct side of the issues.


Posted by: LizSpigot | Link to this comment | 12-10-13 4:47 PM
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[redacted]


Posted by: OPINIONATED FOREIGN INTELLIGENCE SURVEILLANCE COURT | Link to this comment | 12-10-13 5:25 PM
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[redacted]


Posted by: Opinionated Teradact-dact-yl | Link to this comment | 12-10-13 5:35 PM
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It's really frustrating to catch part of a thread before the redactions and come back to it later and find it's mostly gone.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 12-10-13 6:09 PM
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Can we start taking screenshots of unredacted content and putting them in the Unfogged group on Flickr? I'm super glad I caught this thread early because I thrive on this stuff. Tell me about your life! I want to know everything.


Posted by: LizSpigot | Link to this comment | 12-10-13 6:23 PM
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I guess we sort of do this to my parents. But they'll just call up in the morning and say they're in town and when can they come by and we tell them 5pm and they'll show up at 6:30 when we normally eat at 6 then we won't eat until 7:30 and the kids usually go to bed by 8. So now we don't go out of our way to accommodate them when they're around.
Also we never go to their house when we're visiting their area, we make them go to my brother's house at the same time we're visiting him. But my dad's a hoarder, the house literally isn't safe for kids. Oh, and my in-laws who live in the same area as them are moving near us so we're hardly going to my parents' area any more after they move, probably just to visit my brother but much less often.


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 12-10-13 6:27 PM
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Wait, is heebie the only one that gets to redact her personally-identifying confessions?


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 12-10-13 6:27 PM
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[redacted]


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 12-10-13 6:35 PM
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Oops. You should probably redact that, too. Sorry, Halford.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 12-10-13 6:37 PM
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It's really frustrating to catch part of a thread before the redactions and come back to it later and find it's mostly gone.

I feel you.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 12-10-13 6:37 PM
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CharleyCarp, three minutes of google and a little experience suggest that you want a professional. `Data recovery' might be the title, they may be used to keeping track of chains of evidence, they might be able to work remotely, but if you don't have anyone who slings mail formats regularly, wotta pain. Could you download it to .eml instead? THat looks slightly more manageable; there is at least a php library.


Posted by: clew | Link to this comment | 12-10-13 6:47 PM
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104

With 0% reporting, Democrat called as victor in our special election. I love being in an automatic Dem district.


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 12-10-13 6:50 PM
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If its any consolation, I felt like a jerk about redacting everything, too. Didn't think of the Flickr pool.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 12-10-13 6:51 PM
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You can make us feel better by giving us more information you will redact in the future. How do you really feel about Jammies? Actually, he seems amazing, that's a bad question. Tell us more about your family!


Posted by: LizSpigot | Link to this comment | 12-10-13 6:54 PM
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107

Frankly, I think you should've just left everything unredacted!


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 12-10-13 6:56 PM
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I got an exciting email message today from [redacted] about [redacted] but then I thought "how can you [redacted] to a koala?"


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 12-10-13 6:56 PM
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[redacted]


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 12-10-13 6:57 PM
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110

I mean, that's what I'd do. But she's family.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 12-10-13 6:57 PM
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111

The greatest moment in Unfogged history was apparently redacted, and I still don't know the story.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 12-10-13 6:58 PM
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112

111: You mean the SEK thing, right? I think at some point I got a copy of it from alameida.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 12-10-13 7:04 PM
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So I may still have it in email records somewhere and could possibly hook you up, if you want.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 12-10-13 7:06 PM
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114

Oooh. I actually would kind of like that, if it's possible.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 12-10-13 7:09 PM
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115

I saved it at comment 600 or so. Shoot me an email if you want it.


Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 12-10-13 7:13 PM
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116

It's actually still online -- I'll email how to find the whole thing.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 12-10-13 7:19 PM
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Please send it to me as well. Just replace the "underscore" in my email address with the actual "_"


Posted by: Barry Freed | Link to this comment | 12-10-13 7:24 PM
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Oh awesome, thanks.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 12-10-13 7:25 PM
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Someone should email me, too, though I've read some. I'm back in the ER for a kiddie psych admit again and I'll want some reading material tonight. I really was serious about how it's not a great long-term idea to abuse or neglect your kids even if it sounds appealing at the time, not that I really think anyone here needs the reminder. I'm not sure how I'll get home since the ambulance brought me. Cab, I guess. I'll have plenty of time to figure it out.


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 12-10-13 7:58 PM
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Sounds rough. Hope it goes well for you and her.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 12-10-13 8:03 PM
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Oh, man. Best wishes for your daughter.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 12-10-13 8:04 PM
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Sorry to hear that, Thorn. Sympathies to both of you. Cab, yes.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 12-10-13 8:04 PM
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Take care, Thorn. I'm sorry you're back again, but I know you're doing your best for (all) your girl(s).


Posted by: ydnew | Link to this comment | 12-10-13 8:12 PM
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On the whole, things are getting much better, though that's not true of tonight. I'm sure this is all part of the process and I'm not too worried this time, just sad. I didn't laugh out loud when she called me a "fuckin' bitch" for the first time since I don't think that worked when she called me just plain bitch the first time, but I'm grateful I'm not a parent who's hurt by that sort of thing.


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 12-10-13 8:14 PM
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Oof, I'm sorry. About the psych ward, not your being a fucking bitch. (but really, poor Nia.)


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 12-10-13 8:45 PM
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Maybe they won't admit her because the kiddie hospital can't do direct admits (you need an ER referral) and the ER and its sister hospital (which is where the social worker who will make the actual referral after teleconferencing with us; I'm sure I whined about that system previously!) have had a massive failure of their computer system and it's not even clear if the video conference will work or if they can find the physical paperwork to refer her if that's the choice. Meanwhile she's having the time of her life playing on the bed and getting nurses to get her things and looking forward to inpatient, where she can eat all the comfort food she wants and they get to watch movies every night. And here I'd been hoping to get a good night's sleep for a change!


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 12-10-13 8:49 PM
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Meanwhile she's having the time of her life playing on the bed and getting nurses to get her things and looking forward to inpatient, where she can eat all the comfort food she wants and they get to watch movies every night.

Sounds like maybe there's a problem here with incentives...


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 12-10-13 8:51 PM
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Yeah. And the hospital shouldn't be punishment, but so far taking away her iPod because it was bedtime (I mean, because I'm a fucking bitch) hasn't had any big negative consequences unless my telling the ambulance drivers they'd better not give her lollipops counts. On the off chance they send her home, though, I stand by my "no iPod tomorrow becuase you didn't put it down when I told you to" because I'm etc.


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 12-10-13 8:54 PM
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Sorry to hear about all that Thorn. Hang in there.


Posted by: Barry Freed | Link to this comment | 12-10-13 9:01 PM
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I'll be up late, Thorn. You're welcome to e-mail if you want to chat.


Posted by: Von Wafer | Link to this comment | 12-10-13 9:43 PM
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I'm not sure this is the time to get your sarge on, Of The Cookie.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 12-10-13 9:49 PM
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Thanks. I'm doing fine. They're going to admit her, so we'll need the state to sign off and then another ambulance can take us to the inpatient kid unit, where I just realized I can ask that they start her on a lower privilege level as a repeat customer and at least make sure she doesn't get a movie tomorrow night. That might be enough for them to see what these meltdowns are like, too. We'll see. I don't want her to be misable; I want her to have the tools to be able to handle normal life. I do think we're getting there, but it's going to take a while.


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 12-10-13 10:06 PM
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Thorn, I haven't ever commented at you, but I've lurked in enough threads over the years to allow myself this moment of earnestness before I go back to making fun of Wafer: whether or not you think that you, personally, are a good person, what you're doing for these kids is extraordinary, and I thank you for sharing it, and wish you nothing but the best.

But seriously, Wafer isn't even one of those old guys who is starting to look like a lesbian, so don't you be ensorcelled by his proferred concern.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 12-10-13 10:20 PM
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Oh hey, and guess why there are no ambulances available now that two private companies here closed in the last month? Argh! (There is one and it'll be here within an hour, so I can be home in two or three more.)


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 12-10-13 11:06 PM
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I was wondering about that when I read the link in the other post (especially the part about where the company operated) then your comments here.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 12-10-13 11:08 PM
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And ogged is totally just trying to mack on you himself by dissing VW.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 12-10-13 11:12 PM
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I thought he was negging himself by admitting he lurked on his own damn blog, but I have to admit a lot of the PUA technique remains murky to me.


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 12-10-13 11:15 PM
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Me too, babe, me too. It's just hard for me not to be honest, you know?


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 12-10-13 11:21 PM
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To be clear, the actual EMTs came right over from the fire station and were at the house within minutes. But the non-emergency transport gets contracted out and oops!

Between the daylong migraine and flickering fluorescent lights and tiny cramped room and dysregulated noisy child who can't stop moving, not to mention regular hospital sounds and constant coughing from the next room, I'm just feeling lucky I haven't ended up with a psychotic break or something myself. Just a few more hours and I can sleep, and tomorrow shouldn't be an awful work day and then I have the rest of the week off, though I have to work on nice things for Lee because it'll be her birthday and can't be purely selfish.


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 12-10-13 11:22 PM
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Back from dinner now; I found the old email from alameida. But it looks like LB already took care of sharing the awesome? If not let me know and I'll share.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 12-10-13 11:29 PM
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I got a copy, and it turns out I'd read all or almost all of it already.

In whining-about-me news, it's stupid and annoying to have a wall of vending machines that only take singles or fives next to an ATM that only dispenses twenties. I had enough to get myself a soda with caffeine and sugar and am hiding it from the kiddo since I won't share. Apparently someone's ambulance just arrived, I'm hoping ours.


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 12-10-13 11:43 PM
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it's stupid and annoying to have a wall of vending machines that only take singles or fives next to an ATM that only dispenses twenties

Also annoying is when a vending machine that only takes coins and singles is next to a change machine that only disburses quarters. I was once faced with that situation when all I had was a twenty. Twenty dollars in quarters is a lot of quarters.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 12-10-13 11:48 PM
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Earnestness moment: reading that thread was pretty damn amazing, but weirdly, so long after the fact, my main reactions were (a) my God how young and doctrinaire many of you were and (b) literal tears from reading comments from pdf23ds. Poor guy.

Thorn, I'm sorry for your situation and I hope you and tour family all are doing well. Really thinking of you, and thanks for sharing.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 12-11-13 12:02 AM
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I'm doing fine and the family is better than at plenty of other times in the recent past. The kid at home should commence meltdowns because losing a sibling even temporarily is cause to doubt us all, but we'll get through. Lee is being a more active parent these days, though I'm still not appreciative enough of that or of how much effort it takes for her. But I'm in an ambulance and I certainly appreciate that! And that we're dealing with a facility where they'll talk to me some and start with very gentle medications and so on rather than working under the assumption that drugged zombie kids don't cause trouble so we should try that.

Maybe ten more minutes to the facility, half an hour at most of paperwork, half an hour at most to get a cab. I can still get a good two or three hours of sleep before the baby wakes up.


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 12-11-13 12:09 AM
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tour family

Halford has a plan for licensing the merch.


Posted by: Von Wafer | Link to this comment | 12-11-13 12:11 AM
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Yeah just cause the rest of you don't have the balls to earn money from these cute adopted kids doesn't make me a monster.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 12-11-13 12:23 AM
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Waiting for my ride home now, since they didn't need any new paperwork from me. It was not as hard emotionally this time and I don't feel like I failed even though I hoped when we left not to be back for a long time, if ever. But it felt familiar yet mostly neutral when we pulled up, like the mild annoyance going to the eye doctor or something. I only got gooey when I looked at the snow and thought about how she missed the first tiny snowfall a month ago because she was inside and how she asked us to describe it to her, and now here at least at night the grounds are finally beautiful rather than grim and the snow is pristine because everyone is stuck inside all the time.


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 12-11-13 12:32 AM
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For clarity, we/I use a collaborative problem solving/"The Explosive Child" approach. I worry I was being too authoritarian, but we've agreed upon how bedtime needs to work and I did everything that was part of my job in terms of gentle reminders, three chances to put the iPod down, etc. I do believe she's generally doing as well as she can and can also see why she's trying to push us away or get angry and snap if we're going to do that, but last night was different and I think this was the appropriate response even though it was no fun. I have no interest in being in a power struggle with a child, but she really wanted or needed this explosion and was very deliberate about it, and I just hope we can turn it into a source of productive growth.

We've been really lucky that we're not having to deal with psychotropic drugs or significant diagnoses, though I already don't agree with the diagnosis they made last time even though she'll probably qualify for more services because she has it. Instead, they're using blood pressure medicines that can help someone with PTSD or anxiety stay out of fight-or-flight mode more easily. Not sure that pertains to anyone here since we seem to be mostly an anti-depressant anti-anxiety crowd, but I'm very relieved it's not worse stuff.

The taxi driver had been a patient at the hospital when he was young and is now fighting to get his young child out of foster care under the same judge my girls have, so that was an interesting conversation to have at 3 am. But I got to sleep and now I just have to get through today and do some special stuff with the other kid, who's traumatized and upset, and then I hope get back to sleep again in 12 hours or so.


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 12-11-13 6:52 AM
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Thorn, as always thank you for sharing, I'll be thinking about you, and I hope you make it sleep tonight without any more incidents, and that you can sort everything out okay.

The taxi driver had been a patient at the hospital when he was young and is now fighting to get his young child out of foster care under the same judge my girls have, so that was an interesting conversation to have at 3 am.

That is an amazing detail.


Posted by: NickS | Link to this comment | 12-11-13 9:21 AM
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Yeah, he got a bigger tip than if he'd had the other, less quirky(?) judge. The other detail I almost mentioned because it's been in the news a lot is that (per his story, but if it didn't happen to him it has to other people) he took a plea deal for something he claims he didn't do because he was 18 and stupid and tired of waiting in jail for trial, and now that's what's holding him back from getting more access to his child. (Though knowing the judge, I suspect there are a lot more hoops than that, reasonable or not.) So inadequate public defender, inadequate answers from caseworkers, opinionated judge, who knows what history from his childhood but not so great.... This is probably pretty common.


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 12-11-13 9:27 AM
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he took a plea deal for something he claims he didn't do

Sitting in the jury assembly room today, I almost laughed out loud when the video started talking about how in America, unlike all those other terrible countries, everyone has the right to a trial. Ugh.

And yes, my sympathies, too. Poor everyone.


Posted by: x.trapnel | Link to this comment | 12-11-13 2:55 PM
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Thinking of you, Lee, and all the kiddos, Thorn.

(Also, can someone e-mail me the redacted thread of yore?)


Posted by: J, Robot | Link to this comment | 12-11-13 7:41 PM
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Please stop, read. I am already hollow and weepy and really don't need to keep being reminded of all the ways I could be a more adequate parent but fail, especially when I'm trying not to actually say too much about any of this and probably failed at that too.. Thanks, all, for your kindness and friendship, as always. Some of this is just really hard for me. I'm going to try to get some sleep, because that can't hurt.


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 12-11-13 7:49 PM
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