Re: Swashbuckling bodice ripper

1

That sucks and makes me sad, heebie. I had different splits than that one, but I totally understand what you're saying.


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 01-16-14 8:37 AM
horizontal rule
2

Yep. At a similar age, I just couldn't visualize how a possible romantic relationship would work with me in it. I knew I was straight, but the woman's role in any sort of romantic narrative seemed kind of absolutely alien.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 01-16-14 8:56 AM
horizontal rule
3

Based on my constant viewing of old movies on Channel 9 on the weekends, I just assumed that all adult relationships consisted of people yelling at each other for awhile and then the next morning it was apparent that they had had sex. It was a cultural trope that would come to serve me well in later life as a guide to romance.


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 01-16-14 9:10 AM
horizontal rule
4

But seriously, that is fairly sad. I think I just tended to imagine myself as a sidekick or observer in those narratives.


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 01-16-14 9:11 AM
horizontal rule
5

This is a worry that I have w.r.t. small god-daughter; I am doing what I think a good godfather ought to and encouraging her via judicious birthday presents to do interesting stuff, have adventures, sail the seven seas, travel to the South Pole etc and she's totally buying into it, but she is starting to notice that all the people doing these things that she thinks are terrific are Scott, Shackleton, Hillary, Tensing and so on, in other words blokes, and is wondering where all the female adventurers are. Amelia Earhart is filling the gap, but there's only one of her. Suggestions?


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 01-16-14 9:11 AM
horizontal rule
6

5: there's that woman who keeps swimming to Cuba and so on.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 01-16-14 9:13 AM
horizontal rule
7

I am not going to stop encouraging her to have adventures, sail the seven seas and so forth, because I view it as a vital counterbalance to her mother encouraging her to run a beauty salon for all her soft toys.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 01-16-14 9:13 AM
horizontal rule
8

Didn't you actually have one of those astonishing Victorian world traveller women in your family? I'm forgetting the story precisely, but you mentioned someone along those lines, maybe in a thread where you also brought up the Ottoman math tutor.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 01-16-14 9:13 AM
horizontal rule
9

Tell her to be the change, etc.


Posted by: Awl | Link to this comment | 01-16-14 9:13 AM
horizontal rule
10

And when you find a woman-adventurer, her lovelife is inevitably absent. She's not pined over, the way the male hero is assumed to be.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 01-16-14 9:14 AM
horizontal rule
11

8: Great-aunt Florence. Yes, indeed. Good point. I can dredge up some of the family anecdotes about her...


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 01-16-14 9:14 AM
horizontal rule
12

Today's Google-doodle is Dian Fossey, who goes nicely with Jane Goodall.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 01-16-14 9:14 AM
horizontal rule
13

9 is what I have been doing, but it's a bit unsatisfactory to say that back then girls weren't allowed to sail the seven seas but now they are, honest!
Dian Fossey and Jane Goodall would also be excellent ideas.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 01-16-14 9:16 AM
horizontal rule
14

Sadly, I know nothing whatsoever about Grace O'Malley beyond the name and the profession, but knowing that there's precedent for piracy out there is something.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 01-16-14 9:16 AM
horizontal rule
15

This list from Wikipedia is a good resource. Lady Hester Stanhope, for instance.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 01-16-14 9:17 AM
horizontal rule
16

There's also Anne Bonney, and Amelia Earhart, and the historical Mulan, the playwright Aphra Behn who was probably also a spy...

Also, Heebie, I think we had the same childhood.

https://vimeo.com/43121217


Posted by: Annie | Link to this comment | 01-16-14 9:19 AM
horizontal rule
17

14 - See also the awesome Mary Read/Anne Bonny/Calico Jack Rackham love triangle. (Featuring what may be history's greatest blow-off line: "If you'd fought like a man, they wouldn't hang you like a dog.")


Posted by: | Link to this comment | 01-16-14 9:19 AM
horizontal rule
18

Sadly, I know nothing whatsoever about Grace O'Malley beyond the name and the profession, but knowing that there's precedent for piracy out there is something.

Oh, there were definitely female pirates: Anne Bonney and Mary Read come to mind (as indeed how could they not).

15: Lady Hay Drummond-Hay, the first woman to circumnavigate the world by zeppelin, wins that list hands down.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 01-16-14 9:20 AM
horizontal rule
19

9 is what I have been doing, but it's a bit unsatisfactory to say that back then girls weren't allowed to sail the seven seas but now they are, honest!

Well, it's true. Also: Ellen MacArthur.


Posted by: Ginger Yellow | Link to this comment | 01-16-14 9:20 AM
horizontal rule
20

Multiply pwned on Anne Bonny. "Clearly not at her best first thing in the morning", remarks George MacDonald Fraser in The Pyrates.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 01-16-14 9:21 AM
horizontal rule
21

ajay, it sounds like she's too old for this already, but there's a a really nice picture book about Jane Goodall that I'm pretty sure I learned about from others here.


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 01-16-14 9:22 AM
horizontal rule
22

Nelly Bly, Mary Kingsley, Emma Goldman.


Posted by: snarkout | Link to this comment | 01-16-14 9:22 AM
horizontal rule
23

Hmm, thanks. She's 5 - might be OK?


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 01-16-14 9:23 AM
horizontal rule
24

I should really get Zardoz a framed copy of the picture of my great-grandmother in a gypsy costume smoking opium during the era she was working at Hull House. That's the kind of role model the kid needs.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 01-16-14 9:24 AM
horizontal rule
25

13: Yeah, I considered adding a sadface emoticon.
You know what else is a bit unsatisfactory? Several thousand years of patriarchy. :(


Posted by: Awl | Link to this comment | 01-16-14 9:24 AM
horizontal rule
26

If she's princess-inclined, you can always throw in a some interesting queens: Eleanor of Aquitaine has quite a lot of crusading/ruling/civil warring going on.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 01-16-14 9:24 AM
horizontal rule
27

Lady Hay Drummond-Hay, the first woman to circumnavigate the world by zeppelin
For what it's worth, I'm swooning at this description alone.


Posted by: Eggplant | Link to this comment | 01-16-14 9:25 AM
horizontal rule
28

You know what else is a bit unsatisfactory? Several thousand years of patriarchy. :(

Yes, true, but I am doing my best to end it one small god-daughter at a time.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 01-16-14 9:25 AM
horizontal rule
29

Bertha Heyman. Cassie Chadwick.


Posted by: snarkout | Link to this comment | 01-16-14 9:26 AM
horizontal rule
30

23: Yes, definitely for that age! As a complement, there was an Imax movie, Born to be Wild about women "fostering" baby animals that my girls also loved when we got the dvd from the library.


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 01-16-14 9:26 AM
horizontal rule
31

It seems like there's room for someone to write a true adventure stories for girls book. There certainly are enough women who've done cool adventurey stuff out there (often dressing up as men). Of course, having written that my mind is completely blank on any names or details. Anne Bonny! there's one. A pirate!


Posted by: togolosh | Link to this comment | 01-16-14 9:27 AM
horizontal rule
32

26: Fortunately she has shown no signs of being princessy yet. That kicks in around age 7, doesn't it?


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 01-16-14 9:27 AM
horizontal rule
33

...andd multipwned. dagnabbit.


Posted by: togolosh | Link to this comment | 01-16-14 9:28 AM
horizontal rule
34

Sadie the Goat.


Posted by: snarkout | Link to this comment | 01-16-14 9:28 AM
horizontal rule
35

Sacajawea may be a bit American for a kid in the UK, but that's certainly an adventury story.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 01-16-14 9:29 AM
horizontal rule
36

My eleven year old is writing a 'book' - a Percy Jackson knock-off - and her (female) Mary Sue main character is a total BAMF. She does like a boy, but she's definitely the leader of their gang.


Posted by: asilon | Link to this comment | 01-16-14 9:29 AM
horizontal rule
37

Lydia Litvyak!


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 01-16-14 9:29 AM
horizontal rule
38

Again, going back to things you've said about your own family, but didn't you have a grandmother or something codebreaking at Bletchley Park?


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 01-16-14 9:30 AM
horizontal rule
39

38: she was at BP, but in a fairly junior capacity, not being aristocratic enough to be trusted with the real high-grade stuff.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 01-16-14 9:32 AM
horizontal rule
40

Margaret Mead? Maybe especially if the god-daughter's family is Anglican?


Posted by: Von Wafer | Link to this comment | 01-16-14 9:32 AM
horizontal rule
41

Freya Stark.


Posted by: Megan | Link to this comment | 01-16-14 9:33 AM
horizontal rule
42

5. Kathleen Kenyon; Gertrude Caton-Thompson, Semni Karouzou -you can mine this site for a while.


Posted by: chris y | Link to this comment | 01-16-14 9:34 AM
horizontal rule
43

39: Still, it's a personal link to the right kind of story.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 01-16-14 9:35 AM
horizontal rule
44

Go ahead and post the story, heebie. Are you waiting for us to beg?


Posted by: urple | Link to this comment | 01-16-14 9:36 AM
horizontal rule
45

My kid seems to be going for some bizarre combo of being obsessed with girls stuff (she annoyingly refuses to ever wear pants) and being the Ndamukong Suh of the playground, so we'll see where things end up.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 01-16-14 9:36 AM
horizontal rule
46

44: I actually meant to bring it to work and post some excerpts. I left it at home, though.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 01-16-14 9:38 AM
horizontal rule
47

We also have a Lego Boadicea (OK, it's a princess figure who came with a chariot, and I told her the story) and the kid seems pretty into her.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 01-16-14 9:39 AM
horizontal rule
48

Boadicea, being from Europe, not only refused to ever wear trousers, she was also enlightenedly topless.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 01-16-14 9:40 AM
horizontal rule
49

It's not a Boudicca unless the chariot has scythes.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 01-16-14 9:40 AM
horizontal rule
50

I mean, you could add the scythes.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 01-16-14 9:40 AM
horizontal rule
51

32: In our experience princesses started being a big deal around age 4, and by 7 we were growing out of them. By 8 we were definitely angry that we had to dress up as Belle for the Ice Show, when some of the other girls got to be Hermione.


Posted by: Molly | Link to this comment | 01-16-14 9:40 AM
horizontal rule
52

(that said, there's really nothing more girly than an ice show, and that's still happening).


Posted by: Molly | Link to this comment | 01-16-14 9:41 AM
horizontal rule
53

Picture book: Miss Rumphius (fulfills adventure and making a better world and friendship, but sadly not romance)

Chapter books/people:

- Sybil Ludington, Revolutionary War hero

- Elizabeth Van Lew, Union spy (I know there is a children's biography of her but it may not be in print)

- Beryl Markham (West With the Night is her autobiography)

- Mae Jemison, astronaut

- I was obsessed with The White Lions of Timbavati as a child, mostly because of the color photos of the lions, but also because it was a husband-and-wife team of naturalists and IIRC they actually had their kids and kept working in the field.

i always found Jane Goodall, Dian Fossey, and the orangutan lady to be somewhat sad reading, precisely becuase they seemed to have no meaningful personal lives outside their obsessive work. (Goodall came the closest, but IIRC she married the one and only man sent out to do work with her in the field, they had one son and the marriage didn't last).

I could go on and on....


Posted by: Witt | Link to this comment | 01-16-14 9:44 AM
horizontal rule
54

Freya Stark.

Arya Stark.


Posted by: Ginger Yellow | Link to this comment | 01-16-14 9:44 AM
horizontal rule
55

There's a number of fantasy books out there that would be good--Tamora Pierce in particular, for younger readers.


Posted by: x.trapnel | Link to this comment | 01-16-14 9:46 AM
horizontal rule
56

Hawaii went to her first ballet class yesterday, and is hopelessly enthralled. It is precisely the blend of orderliness, rules, Victorian trappings, and femininity that Hawaii adores. The instructor was both stern and loving.

Ahead of time, when we were waiting in the lobby, I said, "C'mere. If you peek in this room, you can see some of the costumes." (The door was open.) Hawaii peeked nervously and then sat right back down saying "If someone saw us peek, we can just say we were passing by and weren't really looking." This child.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 01-16-14 9:46 AM
horizontal rule
57

she was also enlightenedly topless.

In bloody Norfolk? I don't think so.


Posted by: chris y | Link to this comment | 01-16-14 9:47 AM
horizontal rule
58

And re: bodice-rippers, there's the Clan of the Cave Bear books. Well, after the first one. Female protagonist invents civilization, and has lots of sex!


Posted by: x.trapnel | Link to this comment | 01-16-14 9:47 AM
horizontal rule
59

Samantha Smith is inspiring but also a bummer. Who wants to read about a 13-year-old who dies in a plane crash?

Oh! Eugenie Clark! I read Lady with a Spear over and over again, and not just because I was into sharks.


Posted by: Witt | Link to this comment | 01-16-14 9:50 AM
horizontal rule
60

Lots of completely badass contemporary women are Patagonia "ambassadors".


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 01-16-14 9:52 AM
horizontal rule
61

I don't remember sweating this sort of thing too much with Sally -- we didn't ban Disney or anything, just sort of did what came naturally. What with being a big strong girl, and the rugby, and the general level of simmering inter-sibling violence (Newt is still physically outclassed, but is game enough that fights do turn physical), while she's really a very kind, gentle kid generally, her snap reactions are all in the turning toward rather than away from physical conflict.

She was having a bit of a crisis of confidence about this the other day -- noting that being delicately pixieish was clearly not something that was ever going to happen, and feeling a bit weird about a hockey game in gym class where she realized after the fact that she'd been body-checking people with a certain amount of reckless abandon (to a level explicitly approved by the gym teacher; she's not injuring people or anything). I'm not sure how helpful I was in reassuring her -- I told her that if you're playing a sport, aggression (within the rules) is how it's supposed to work, that she's actually doing it right. And in terms of being attractive, she's absolutely right that delicately pixieish is not a way anyone is ever going to describe her, but that being a big strong healthy animal is a perfectly workable way of being attractive.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 01-16-14 9:53 AM
horizontal rule
62

37 The Night Witches


Posted by: Barry Freed | Link to this comment | 01-16-14 9:53 AM
horizontal rule
63

"Eleanor of Aquitaine has quite a lot of crusading/ruling/civil warring going on."

I'm all for active role models for girls but the crusading is kind of a problem.

Florence Nightingale had some adventures. I just read her wikipedia entry and was surprised to learn that aside from the front-line medical care, she was also a statistician! Though she seems to have had some anti-women beliefs going on herself, judging by the "Relationships" section.


Posted by: dz | Link to this comment | 01-16-14 9:55 AM
horizontal rule
64

Well, piracy is also a problem, if we're worried about the morals of it all. If you're going to be looking at anyone doing anything adventury in a historical context, it's going to be very hard to avoid immoral conduct.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 01-16-14 9:57 AM
horizontal rule
65

62: Also, Soviet snipers. (Who I am unable not to think of as "hotsy-totsy soviet snipers" after Alameida described them as such in a WWII re-enactment discussion.)


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 01-16-14 9:59 AM
horizontal rule
66

Obviously they're not Sir Edmund, but there are some fairly inspirational female climbers around who lecture, are online, etc. Kitty Calhoun and Steph Davis are a couple of badass contemporary US climbers who seem like OK people too (Davis wrote an interesting memoir). There's an argument that Lynn Hill may be the best rock climber of either gender ever (also wrote an autobio). I'm out of touch with British climbing but back in the day people like Louise Thomas, Kath Pyke, and the late Alison Hargreaves were doing amazing things.


Posted by: bill | Link to this comment | 01-16-14 9:59 AM
horizontal rule
67

65 I was just about to mention Lyudmila Pavlichenko.

Also Aleksandra Samusenko has a very interesting story.


Posted by: Barry Freed | Link to this comment | 01-16-14 10:00 AM
horizontal rule
68

her snap reactions are all in the turning toward rather than away from physical conflict.

Just ask the gingerbread housing authority.


Posted by: md 20/400 | Link to this comment | 01-16-14 10:02 AM
horizontal rule
69

64: axiomatically, "I'm not saying we aren't fun, but fun or not, pirates are still the baddies."

Arya Stark.

Well, obviously. But five may be a bit young for "Game of Thrones".
Possibly a real-life equivalent like Black Agnes Randolph of Dunbar. "Salisbury began the siege with a bombardment by catapults, sending huge rocks and lead shot against the ramparts of Dunbar. Lady Agnes responded by having her maids dress in their Sunday best; she then led them to the outer walls, where with their handkerchiefs they nonchalantly and slightingly dusted away the damage from the bombardment... According to one story, at one point during the siege, the English captured Agnes's brother John Randolph, 3rd Earl of Moray, and paraded him in front of the castle with a rope round his neck, threatening to hang him if she did not surrender. She told them to go ahead, as she would then inherit the earldom."


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 01-16-14 10:02 AM
horizontal rule
70

I impressed by LB's knowledge of the archives (and ajay's family tree) at the beginning of the thread.


Posted by: NickS | Link to this comment | 01-16-14 10:03 AM
horizontal rule
71

And don't forget the Powerpuff Girls! Buttercup is especially badass!


Posted by: peep | Link to this comment | 01-16-14 10:04 AM
horizontal rule
72

67: Lydia Litvyak is better, because her story involves a tragic doomed love affair and is thus 80% more Russian. Also because she used to drive her male colleagues nuts by always putting bouquets of flowers in the cockpit of her Yak-1, which they would then heave out in disgust when it was their turn to fly it.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 01-16-14 10:05 AM
horizontal rule
73

70: I'm not saying I could retype the archives from memory...


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 01-16-14 10:07 AM
horizontal rule
74

Khutulun of Mongolia, niece of Kublai Khan, warrior and athlete. She defeated all comers at wrestling and won ten thousand horses.


Posted by: Gareth Rees | Link to this comment | 01-16-14 10:08 AM
horizontal rule
75

Posts like this are also a good time to remind everyone that Get Mortified is hilarious.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 01-16-14 10:13 AM
horizontal rule
76

71:Of course there are tons of examples in anime of female action/adventure protagonists with or without male or female romantic attachments and or sidekicks.

The seinen seem to actually prefer that setup, as do I.

The details and nuances of how relationships play out performatively can be complicated and nuanced, with varying degrees of sexist or role reproduction.

Simoun. The Third. Claymore.

Endless, actually.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 01-16-14 10:18 AM
horizontal rule
77

Zenobia, come to think of it. Queen of a one horse state in the Syrian desert who took on the Romans, conquered Egypt and held out for about five years. There's even an optional semi-happy ending.


Posted by: chris y | Link to this comment | 01-16-14 10:22 AM
horizontal rule
78

Beryl Markham is very ladylike about not letting on in her autobiography that she was banging the hell out of most of the men mentioned positively. A good role model in our Facebook/Twitter/Jezebel/LenaDunhamLenaDunhamLenaDunham Era.


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 01-16-14 10:24 AM
horizontal rule
79

77: I was thinking about Zenobia, and then thought, nah, too obscure. But a good one.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 01-16-14 10:26 AM
horizontal rule
80

Frankly at this point I'm looking for ways to tone down or channel the girl power, not to amp it up.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 01-16-14 10:26 AM
horizontal rule
81

79 77: I was thinking about Zenobia, and then thought, nah, too obscure.

I thought it was one of the more recognizable names in the thread. But I guess I'm woefully underinformed about historical ass-kicking and/or exploring women.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 01-16-14 10:28 AM
horizontal rule
82

Eleanor of Aquitaine has quite a lot of crusading/ruling/civil warring going on.

Although The Lion in Winter could be a little heavy for a child, depending on the age.


Posted by: AcademicLurker | Link to this comment | 01-16-14 10:28 AM
horizontal rule
83

Frankly at this point I'm looking for ways to tone down or channel the girl power, not to amp it up.

Jane Eyre?


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 01-16-14 10:29 AM
horizontal rule
84

77, 79 Very good. And not just for the action adventure but she was very highly educated as well.


Posted by: Barry Freed | Link to this comment | 01-16-14 10:30 AM
horizontal rule
85

83: Everyone's probably already seen it on facebook, but The Toast had a hilarious How To Tell If You Are In A Bronte Novel.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 01-16-14 10:32 AM
horizontal rule
86

The new Lara Croft character design is notably more human looking than predecessors, and she adventures/hunts/climbs/fights like a house on fire.


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 01-16-14 10:33 AM
horizontal rule
87

There's also Kahina aka Dihya, the Berber Sorceress Queen.


Posted by: Barry Freed | Link to this comment | 01-16-14 10:34 AM
horizontal rule
88

Laura Dekker, that 14 year old girl who sailed around the world recently.


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 01-16-14 10:39 AM
horizontal rule
89

53.penultimate -- But Goodall got to go to on a Tanzanian adventure with her mom, which makes up for a lot.


Posted by: | Link to this comment | 01-16-14 10:44 AM
horizontal rule
90

A woman just became the first person to ride a bike from the ocean to the South Pole.


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 01-16-14 10:46 AM
horizontal rule
91

The new Lara Croft character design is notably more human looking than predecessors, and she adventures/hunts/climbs/fights like a house on fire.
Most of the time in a house on fire, too.


Posted by: Ginger Yellow | Link to this comment | 01-16-14 10:55 AM
horizontal rule
92

Forget female role models, what I find interesting is that heebie describes her parents' house as "home".


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 01-16-14 10:59 AM
horizontal rule
93

I bet that's heavily driven by having moved to a different region. I wouldn't dream of calling Mom's apartment 'home', despite having grown up there. But if I was living in another city, I think I would then.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 01-16-14 11:02 AM
horizontal rule
94

I have no home. I'm the wind.


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 01-16-14 11:06 AM
horizontal rule
95

93: That, and having lived in the same place for a long time (and being able to go back to it now). I moved around so much before college that there's no one place I think of as "home", and even if there were I couldn't go there now.

I'd still have expected that a marriage, multiple children, and a major home renovation would have put a dent in that, though.


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 01-16-14 11:10 AM
horizontal rule
96

there are some fairly inspirational female climbers around who lecture, are online, etc

Sasha DiGiulian is climbing sick routes and is only 20.


Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 01-16-14 11:21 AM
horizontal rule
97

I wonder if Japanese women are different because they grew up on Princess Knight

"Sapphire also dons a Zorro-style mask at night and fights crime as the Phantom Knight, as well as foiling Duke Duralumon's schemes to take over the kingdom and his attempts to prove that Sapphire is really a girl (and thus discredit her as the heir to the throne)."

"Prince Frank is the young prince of neighboring Goldland and Sapphire's love interest. Obviously, their relationship is complicated. Prince Frank is familiar with Sapphire as three entirely different people, and has different feelings toward each. He is good friends with Prince Sapphire, in love with the unnamed princess, and despises the Phantom Knight, whom he mistakenly believes is a rival for the Princess's affection. Because of their similar upbringings, Frank has many of the same skills as Sapphire (such as swordsmanship), although Sapphire is usually a bit better. Tezuka, who was unsatisfied with the original manga series, added some improvements in story and characters to the TV series. He cast the recurrent character Rock as Prince Frank while adding more depth and improving his abilities."

Uhh, from fucking 1953

Also the genderbenders Rose of Versailles 70s and Revolutionary Girl Utena 90s

also...also...also


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 01-16-14 11:29 AM
horizontal rule
98

I named my cat Zenobia! Though I got the name from Wodehouse, where a so-named character had the nickname "Nobby", which I use preferentially.


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 01-16-14 12:11 PM
horizontal rule
99

63: I'm all for active role models for girls but the crusading is kind of a problem.

Well, it's not like Eleanor was launching the crusade by herself - she just invited herself along on a crusade her then husband was going on anyway. The crusades were problematic, but it was a problem common to most of Western European nobility at the time.

My favorite detail about Eleanor was from The Plantagenets, which I read recently. After the annulment of her marriage to Louis VII, she set out on a fast horse back to Aquitaine, evading a couple of parties on the way that had been sent out by various noblemen to waylay her and force her into marriage. Quickly deciding that Henry of Anjou was her best option, she sent word to him to meet her in Poitiers for purposes of matrimony (they had previously met at the French court). Henry was just about to launch an invasion of England in an effort to claim his throne, but decided that he would have better luck later with Eleanor's money behind him. So he dashed off to Poitiers, and after a whirlwind courtship, they were married. Adventure!


Posted by: Dave W. | Link to this comment | 01-16-14 12:50 PM
horizontal rule
100

Also, wasn't he fifteen or so at the time?


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 01-16-14 1:00 PM
horizontal rule
101

There's always Caterina Sforza if you're looking for strong women in the Renaissance. I have to admit I came across her in the relatively soapy Blood & Beauty but she made an impression.


Posted by: Parenthetical | Link to this comment | 01-16-14 1:36 PM
horizontal rule
102

re: climbing

There was a BBC documentary on the north face of the Eiger, a couple of days ago. And they had footage of Ueli Steck doing is speed climb of it. Completely ridiculous. It doesn't even look human. Under 3 hours. When people used to take literally days to climb it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Btb8QuL6vuo

He literally runs up a sheer rock face. I don't know what kind of CV fitness you need to do that [on top of the climbing chops] but I'd bet there's very few people better.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 01-16-14 1:50 PM
horizontal rule
103

100: According to Wikipedia, he was born 5 March 1133, and they were married on 18 May 1152, so he had just turned 19. She was nine years older. He might have been 15 when they first met.


Posted by: Dave W. | Link to this comment | 01-16-14 2:03 PM
horizontal rule
104

Right, not much use to you lot but I must definitley buy this graphic novel for my clutch of nieces
http://www.leabhar.com/grainne-mhaol.htm
(GrĂ¡inne Mhaol / Granuaile / Grace O' Malley)
She was married a few times but the ships were her dowry so they went with her in the divorce(s). Brehon law, not exactly enlightened but better than coverture.


Posted by: emir | Link to this comment | 01-16-14 3:36 PM
horizontal rule
105

102. Holy shit!


Posted by: md 20/400 | Link to this comment | 01-16-14 8:35 PM
horizontal rule
106

but I'd bet there's very few people better

It's a pretty elite club for sure. Steck along with his climbing partner Alex Honnold, Dean Potter and Tommy Caldwell here in the U.S., Hans Florine, and a few others. One of Potters ascents up El Capitan a few years back shaved like five days off the old time. I check out Florine's site from time to time just to check out the sheer lunacy of the times being posted these days on huge ascents.


Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 01-16-14 8:52 PM
horizontal rule
107

Late to the party, but: Harriet Tubman, Ann Bancroft, Nuita Teitelboim, Subcomandante Elisa, Comandante Ramona, Assata Shakur


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 01-16-14 9:15 PM
horizontal rule
108

It's probably weird that my Jewishness makes it harder to write off the crusades, since I'm not that Jewish. But it does. I can picture telling my future daughter tales of a pirate or even a Soviet sniper, but I don't think I'd ever praise someone who was involved in killing tens of thousands of Jews.


Posted by: dz | Link to this comment | 01-16-14 11:07 PM
horizontal rule
109

I could gender-swap nearly everything I read, but I couldn't make it not matter that I'm not blond/e.

I don't have juvenilia, which is as well, as I'm pretty sure my authorial insert always died. (Heroically, with Someone realizing her worth too late. I should check my stupider habits for the leftovers of that.)


Posted by: clew | Link to this comment | 01-17-14 3:04 AM
horizontal rule
110

72: and she had a faithful, greasy-fingered lady mechanic bestie! who went back for years looking for the crash site in the hope of getting her Hero of the Soviet Union awarded at last!


Posted by: Alex | Link to this comment | 01-17-14 4:51 AM
horizontal rule
111

110: also true. My favourite bit remains the irritation of the male pilots at their fighter aircraft continually looking all girly. "She's hoovered in here, hasn't she?"


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 01-17-14 5:13 AM
horizontal rule
112

Mrs. Ching! Most successful lady pirate of them all--ruled a consortium of pirates in the South Asian Seas numbered around 50,000. Never defeated! Neither the British nor the Chinese could defeat her.


Posted by: Miranda | Link to this comment | 01-17-14 1:37 PM
horizontal rule
113

She died oldish, rich, and retired, which is spectacular success.


Posted by: clew | Link to this comment | 01-17-14 3:13 PM
horizontal rule