Re: Various Updates

1

Damn you, Osgood. I thought I was out but you're pulling me back in.


Posted by: dalriata | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 8:32 AM
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So he's good with Photoshop, so what.


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 8:37 AM
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I got the black 4096 with about 50000. Kid A managed 60000 which almost got me going again. It's very soothing to play though.


Posted by: asilon | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 8:54 AM
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Osgood gets the 8192 tile so that I don't have to. A victory by one neuron in the Unfogged hive mind is a victory for all.


Posted by: MAE | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 9:16 AM
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5

The Schwyzer implosion is truly a thing to behold.


Posted by: togolosh | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 9:27 AM
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And behold and behold and behold. Boy is that article long. I think I've paid well more than enough attention to the dude at this point.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 9:30 AM
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6: you can just skip to the end where it gets, implausibly, even worse.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 9:31 AM
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8

The last little vignette about how he taught a severely depressed 22 year old he met in the psych hospital how to self-harm (and, of course, sleeping with her) might be the most disgusting paragraph I've read about him.


Posted by: ydnew | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 9:33 AM
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I can't believe this discussion would have happened without me bringing up head voice. How often do I have a pretext for flaunting my superficial knowledge of vocal technique?


Posted by: Mister Smearcase | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 9:39 AM
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8: right? Is he trying to be cartoonishly (well, one of those cartoons for adults) evil, or what? Hannibal Lecter: Feminist!


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 9:39 AM
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11

Oh, and he's reading Coetzee's Disgrace. Does that make him officially a cliché?


Posted by: ydnew | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 9:40 AM
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OT: The various stories lately (Buzzfeed?!) about a putatively extraordinarily expensive musical instrument soon to be sold are not rendered less amusing by one's exposure to other information about certain personages adjacent or tangential to said stories, via somebody with whom one lives.


Posted by: Prime Minsterial Nom de Guerre | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 9:46 AM
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13

There are also things that I am not going to tell you about because of things that I know!


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 9:49 AM
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14

I am oddly certain I know who the Prime Minister is.


Posted by: Mister Smearcase | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 9:50 AM
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my superficial knowledge of vocal technique

Hey, you know who has terrible vocal technique? The woman who recorded all the vocals for all the Fisher Price toys. The very worst combination of belting and scooping.


Posted by: | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 9:51 AM
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Aha! I was going to make the complaint in 15 but didn't know what words to use. VSOOBC I just described it to smearcase as "smarmy".


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 9:53 AM
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12: Go on...


Posted by: togolosh | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 9:55 AM
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18

We were discussing whether it was belting but I have not heard it so I do not know. I said belting is high chest voice rather than low head voice, but I'm not sure this is a rigorous definition. Discussions of vocal technique go down a rabbit hole of vagueness eventually anyawy. Here, I'll link to a thing about high belting, a thing of its own, with the hilarious or maybe annoying Seth Rudetsky freaking out about it.


Posted by: Mister Smearcase | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 9:59 AM
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re: 15

We have a sort of stuffed dog that has buttons in/on it, that say various things and sing songs. It's bilingual, so it repeats stuff in both Czech and English. The voice is horrific.

"Mám tě rád!"
[pause]
"I love you" [in a voice that sounds like the voice an evil toy in a movie would use to say, "I'm going to kill and eat your family!]


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 10:00 AM
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Honestly teaching a depressed 22 year old to self-hurt in order to sleep with her is nothing compared to the following advocacy to "help our wives escape the prison of mandated gender roles...by being willing to say 'Hey, it's my kitchen too. I can take care of it, and I will take care of it. Let me be your equal partner here.' "


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 10:10 AM
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"Hey, it's my kitchen, too. Let's do cocaine."


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 10:11 AM
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"Hey, it's my kitchen, too. Let's kill and eat a virgin."


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 10:11 AM
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The link in 18 is amazing for reasons I do not fully understand.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 10:13 AM
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It's my kitchen, I can fry if I want to, fry if I want to . . .


Posted by: MAE | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 10:13 AM
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"Hey, it's my kitchen, too. Let's smear ice cream on ourselves and then sex a depressed rehab patient."


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 10:15 AM
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Honestly teaching a depressed 22 year old to self-hurt in order to sleep with her is nothing compared to singing idiotic songs about counting to two like you think you're Julie Andrews.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 10:17 AM
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AHA! Deb, if you're reading this, whoever told you to go so over the top on the "I see pink pigs" song gave you BAD ADVICE.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 10:22 AM
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28

Anyhow Hugo Schwyzer: belter?


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 10:25 AM
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like you think you're Julie Andrews

NO. Let us not besmirch Julie by breathing her name in the same sentence.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 10:27 AM
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30

Later he would appear on The Ricki Lake Show to discuss his decision to get circumcised at age 37. Looking handsome and clean-cut

You see, this is why having good sub-editors with dirty minds is so important. "He learned that... if by any stretch of the imagination a headline could be made to bear an improper interpretation, that was the interpretation that the Great British Public would inevitably place upon it". (Murder Must Advertise)


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 10:27 AM
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29: We only besmirch assholes?


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 10:28 AM
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32

Oops, wrong thread.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 10:29 AM
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30 -- Uranus Takes a Pounding More Frequently Than Thought


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 10:30 AM
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I shouldn't start a discussion I don't understand the nuances of, but I don't understand why Hugo Schwyzer is sexist and racist, particularly to feminists of color, as opposed to just being a narcissist in all regards.

His poor mom.


Posted by: Megan | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 10:37 AM
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I mean the whole "sexist" thing seems pretty easy to parse, for me. Racist, I have no idea. Maybe they didn't cover that in the article?


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 10:40 AM
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36

Not in the article, but I understand that that it is a critique, that all of his cover-feminism has slighted women of color.

Would you parse the "sexist" part for me, in small words (asking sincerely)? I totally get that he manipulates and sexually uses women, but I would attribute that to his narcissism and heterosexuality, not sexism. Like, if he were gay, I'd assume he'd be using male undergraduates the same way and sexism wouldn't be the cause.


Posted by: Megan | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 10:46 AM
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37

I'm guessing the racist thing is one of those Twitter outrage phenomena where one person gets outraged that Schwyzer doesn't acknowledge his privilege, the next person reads that and gets outraged that Schwyzer doesn't acknowledge his white privilege, then the next person reads that and gets outraged that Schwyzer favors white people in all he does, etc.


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 10:49 AM
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Who knows but guessing based on where he teaches I'd guess many of the students he was sleeping with were nonwhite. Which obviously makes him NOT a racist, of course.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 10:57 AM
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39

Unless it makes him more racist.


Posted by: Megan | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 10:59 AM
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40

36: as you say, he specifically and constantly manipulates women, in a way that strongly seems to indicate that he thinks that women as a class are fools. And he -- so far as one can judge from the evidence -- sees young women specifically as essentially compliant sex objects without meaningful or important emotional lives. I don't really know how you get more sexist than that.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 11:18 AM
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41

Oh, there's lots of ways, but I agree that it is pretty sexist.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 11:28 AM
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42

Again, asking sincerely, because I'll say straight out that I don't have a strong understanding of feminism. Wouldn't you need a contrast with how he treats men to establish his poor treatment of women as sexism? If he wanted to be having sex with men, mightn't he be doing the same with them?

Wouldn't a narcissist see all people as not having relevant interior lives? We know he's doing that with women 'cause that's who he wants to fuck, but I guess I am still seeing narcissism as a sufficient explanation for his behavior without adding in sexism.

Not saying he's not sexist, but not seeing how to be sure he's sexist on top of narcissistic.


Posted by: Megan | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 11:30 AM
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43

I really don't think "But he hates everybody" is a good defense against either sexism or racism.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 11:33 AM
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44

42: I think that part of the issue is that he (successfully) identified feminism as sort of an easy way to recognition and internet fame. I think perhaps his targeting of Women's Studies and feminism is maybe stronger evidence of some disdain for those areas.


Posted by: ydnew | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 11:43 AM
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45

Not that the college was showing super high regard for the field, either:

Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 11:49 AM
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46
Schwyzer became a gender studies professor by accident when he filled in for a colleague who was on maternity leave from Pasadena City College, a two-year junior college. With his Ph.D. from UCLA in British medieval history, he was hardly qualified. His only background was two women's studies courses he'd taken as an undergrad at UC Berkeley. In the years since, he had done no research or scholarly papers on gender issues. But the college let him teach the class.

Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 11:49 AM
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47

43: Damn


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 12:01 PM
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48

43: Isn't that the Dirty Harry defense?


Posted by: peep | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 12:18 PM
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49

Perhaps it would help you to phrase it as "his narcissism is driving his sexism." I understand the point you're making, but sexist acts are sexist regardless of whether their root motivation is animus towards women. For example, many people treat women badly, not because they hate women, but because women typically have less power and so are easier to shit on.


Posted by: Unfoggetarian: "Pause endlessly, then go in." (9) | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 12:25 PM
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But if they aren't motivated by animus towards women, don't they instead become asshole acts? Still wrong, probably not functionally any different, possibly received the same way. But that's asshole behavior, not sexist behavior.

I'm prepared to be wrong about this, but isn't animus on the basis of gender a requirement for (non-structural, personal) sexism?


Posted by: Megan | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 12:33 PM
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51

It seems to me that an asshole who is an asshole to women in gender-specific ways is a sexist asshole.


Posted by: L. | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 12:35 PM
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40:

he specifically and constantly manipulates women, in a way that strongly seems to indicate that he thinks that women as a class are fools

To be fair to Schwyzer, he seems to have enjoyed a lot of success (such as it is) acting on that assumption.


Posted by: Benquo | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 12:37 PM
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Which is why I don't get 43. Isn't "he hates everybody" a defense against "he hates women on the basis of their gender"?

I do not mean to sound like an apologist for Schwyzer. I am still willing to believe he is sexist. But I still don't understand how to (maybe there's no good reason to) distinguish between narcissism and sexism.


Posted by: Megan | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 12:38 PM
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54

I don't really know what you mean by "narcissism", incidentally.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 12:39 PM
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55

an asshole to women in gender-specific ways

An asshole to women in wanting-to-fuck-them specific ways. But back to my earlier question, we don't know that a gay Schwyzer wouldn't have treated young men the same way.

I'm getting to far into this, and don't mean to justify any of his behavior. It just seems to me that narcissism and heterosexuality are sufficient to explain his actions.


Posted by: Megan | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 12:41 PM
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Why are you even assuming that he's "just" a narcissist/generally an asshole? We have many examples of him treating women badly, and zero (as far as I know) examples of him treating men badly. I mean, the linked article quotes him calling himself a narcissist, but you know, he's a fucking liar.


Posted by: L. | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 12:42 PM
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49, 50: I think the problem here is that you are using homophones with similar but not quite the same meanings.

Schwyzer is probably not acting out of gendered animus, but is acting in ways that exploit gendered power differences. There's no content to the additional question of whether he's "sexist."


Posted by: Benquo | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 12:42 PM
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(Or at least Megan and I haven't seen convincing evidence that he's acting on the basis of gendered animus rather than narcissism.)


Posted by: Benquo | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 12:43 PM
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the linked article quotes him calling himself a narcissist, but you know, he's a fucking liar
Right. If he really were a narcissist he'd self-diagnose as a psychopath, as is the fashion.


Posted by: Eggplant | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 12:45 PM
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zero (as far as I know) examples of him treating men badly

I don't know that I've read of any examples of him interacting with men at all. It isn't like a bunch of guys are coming forward and saying that he did a great job mentoring them (for real, not in the pathway-to-sleeping-with-them way) while he was being shitty to women.


Posted by: Megan | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 12:47 PM
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Schwyzer is probably not acting out of gendered animus, but is acting in ways that exploit gendered power differences. There's no content to the additional question of whether he's "sexist."

I don't see how "acting in ways that exploit gendered power differences" isn't sufficient, but not necessary, to establish sexism.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 12:48 PM
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Maybe it is. Maybe that's what I don't understand about sexism.

But it still seems to me that "being an asshole that will exploit anyone in any way, including gendered power differences if that happens to cross my path" might be different.


Posted by: Megan | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 12:53 PM
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People who are saying he's sexist typically aren't using Megan's definition of sexism. I think your very narrow definition of sexism is less useful as a concept than a broader definition that involves treating women badly because they're women (irrespective of one's deepest internal motivation). Surely you'd say George Wallace was a terrible racist, even though his racism was primarily motivated by wanting to win elections.


Posted by: Unfoggetarian: "Pause endlessly, then go in." (9) | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 12:53 PM
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64

Or not "happens to cross my path" but maybe "turns out to be a good niche for me".


Posted by: Megan | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 12:54 PM
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It's pretty much the same as with racism. It can and should be defined in relation to actions, which are what hurt people, whether or not distinction-based animus lurks in the heart, which, being both the most cartoonish form of racism and also unknowable, is the hardest to positively attribute to individuals.


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 1:00 PM
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66

62: So he's an asshole who chooses to perform actions that are sexist. I think that's sufficient to call him a sexist asshole.


Posted by: dalriata | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 1:06 PM
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67

But, for most people, you don't have reason to believe they're narcissists so when you see asshole actions towards a class and not towards people not in that class, you can figure that the distinction-based animus is motivating them somehow. (Although, per Jay Smooth, the action is what matters.)

But if you know someone's a narcissist, saying they are sexist says that on top of being an exploitive asshole, he is also doing it because he disdains women for something about their being women. I feel like the sexist label (specifically on top of narcissism) is making the leap to what is in his heart.

How is that wrong? I am genuinely asking, not trying to troll.


Posted by: Megan | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 1:09 PM
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We should leave the exact nature of his damage to forensic ethicists. He got his students to keep diaries so that he could figure out which ones would sleep with him. He encouraged a mentally ill person to self-mutilate as a pick-up strategy. All I need to know is that he's a fucking monster.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 1:12 PM
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But, for most people, you don't have reason to believe they're narcissists...

I've known people and I don't think this is true.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 1:12 PM
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I still think your "what is in his heart" definition of sexism is wrong. But even using that definition, 67.1 still applies: we don't have reason to believe he is a narcissist, therefore probably sexist.


Posted by: L. | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 1:12 PM
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71

Sexist asshole looking for sexhole assist. Hit me up on Twitter, yo.


Posted by: Schwyzer Mentoring Services, LLC | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 1:13 PM
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72

You're just using a different definition of sexism from the rest of us. The rest of us don't think adding the label "sexist" is meant to say to say anything about his deepest beliefs and motivations. I'm not sure how we're supposed to convince you that your definition is wrong, other than saying that's not what people mean.


Posted by: Unfoggetarian: "Pause endlessly, then go in." (9) | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 1:14 PM
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73

Assistant, that is.

Also looking for an editor.


Posted by: Schwyzer Mentoring Services, LLC | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 1:14 PM
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74

Well, I fully admit to having essentially pop-culture understandings of both sexism and narcissism.


Posted by: Megan | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 1:18 PM
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73: I think your original coined a novel name for sex acts.


Posted by: dalriata | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 1:20 PM
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67: I think Upetgi gets to the heart of it with the George Wallace reference (which, if you didn't know, Wallace had a public history of being less racist than you'd expect a southern politician of his era to be. Then he lost an election for that reason, famously said "I will never be outniggered again", and made a career for himself publicly opposing civil rights.) Even where you've got some reasonable evidence that what was in Wallace's heart wasn't all that much racial animus, and what he did was for cynical reasons, making a career of injuring black people for his own personal benefit made him a racist by my definition. Just because he might have done the same thing to any other group doesn't make racist actions non-racist. You could restrict 'racist' to 'has racial animus in his heart', and then George Wallace probably wasn't very racist, but I don't think that's the most useful way to define your terms.

Same with Schwyzer. Exploiting feminist rhetoric and a position of structural power to take advantage of what seems to be a large number of young women is a sexist thing to do, regardless of whether hypothetical gay-Schwyzer might have done the same thing to young men.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 1:21 PM
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67: I don't think you need disdain to be a sexist. I think it's enough to treat women poorly even when it's based on simply not taking them as seriously as men.


Posted by: togolosh | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 1:22 PM
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I am oddly certain I know who the Prime Minister is.

So am I, and I encourage the PM to dish as much as possible. So curious!


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 1:22 PM
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79

This seems like a great day to have never heard of Hugo Shwatsit. But having read the last few comments, I feel certain that the term m-sexist will help you all here.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 1:25 PM
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79: that sounds like a deeply troubling theme party.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 1:29 PM
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81

If bisexual Hugo Schwyzer had treated the men in his class the same as he treated women (exploiting feminist rhetoric and his position of power, 50-50 male-female victims), would he be sexist for doing so? Only sexist when he was abusing women, but not sexist when he was abusing men?

Is this a stupid discussion and I should stop?


Posted by: Megan | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 1:31 PM
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82

Yep.


Posted by: Den E. Crumb | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 1:32 PM
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83

Or maybe yup.


Posted by: Den E. Crumb | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 1:32 PM
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84

I dunno, I like Megan's tenacity. Anyway, my answer to 81's hypothetical is that 50/50 Schwyzer would not be sexist unless there was some asymmetry to his taking advantage, but that's complicated by the fact that women are disadvantaged generally by society, so I can see room for disagreement there.


Posted by: togolosh | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 1:39 PM
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85

via somebody with whom one lives.

When did this happen, then?


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 1:41 PM
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86

81.2: No, it's not stupid and you shouldn't stop unless you want to. I often struggle with knowing what's sexist, abuse of privilege, etc. so having high-level feminists spell it out is extremely helpful to me.


Posted by: dalriata | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 1:44 PM
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87

having high-level feminists spell it out

By which you mean the people that are going to explain this to me.


Posted by: Megan | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 1:55 PM
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88

Except dalriata killed the thread by suggesting that it was time for the high-level feminists to step in. No one wants to identify zirself as a high-level feminist.


Posted by: L. | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 1:59 PM
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89

It takes 30% more experience points for a feminist to level up than it does for a sexist.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 2:00 PM
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90

Right, and sexists benefit from a lot more neg points.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 2:05 PM
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91

Schwyzer was awful to men as well as women. Examples include the husbands of the many married women he slept with, the poor guy who ended up unknowingly raising Schwyzer's biological child, and I suppose his constant patronizing lecturing to men in general in his columns/blog should come in for some criticism too. I don't think he was much of a bisexual, but I'm sure if he had been he would have done some nasty stuff there too. Since he was basically straight, women just had more stuff he wanted.

I think there's too much name-calling around sexism and racism when you're referring to just plain immorality/ass-holishness/evil. For some reason 'you're a sexist!' carries more weight in discrediting someone than 'you're an awful human being!'. I'm not sure where the line between Schwyzer's out-of-control narcissism and sexism would come in, but I'm not sure I care either.

However, I do think Schwyzer is a more complex (and therefore more interesting) story than just being stone evil. I think there's something sincere in his also wanting to be a good guy, but it's also driven by narcicissm. It's like, he doesn't just want to be a good guy, he wants to be a good guy as a route to moral authority and power, be THE good guy guru that others come to learn from. But it still has a sincerity to it which is shown by his repeated acts of self-destructive craziness. It's like the internal contradiction becomes so intense he just has to blow himself up. If he didn't feel guilty at some level he wouldn't have such spectacular and life-threatening flameouts. Not that feeling guilty is an excuse for being such a spectacular asshole.

as you say, he specifically and constantly manipulates women, in a way that strongly seems to indicate that he thinks that women as a class are fools.

Everyone is something of a fool when it comes to sex, if you're going to make a habit out of manipulating your chosen gender into sex you are going to come up with a way to take advantaqe of that foolishness.


Posted by: PGD | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 2:05 PM
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Is it really true that "you're a sexist" carries more weight than "you're an awful human being"? It doesn't seem so to me. I certainly think worse of someone for being a genuinely awful human being than I do of someone who's being a run-of-the-mill sexist. Instead it seems to me that what happens is that people are more likely to be faux outraged over the former than the latter (uncharitably for the purpose of silencing anti-sexism). All that faux outrage may make it appear that people think it's worse, but I don't think anyone actually does.


Posted by: Unfoggetarian: "Pause endlessly, then go in." (9) | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 2:11 PM
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87: Well, they're explaining to me, too. And you're making me consider my viewpoint more carefully: my prior is that's he's sexist and is that for abusing pre-existing power imbalances, but I haven't thought about it really hard and am not sure I could defend that against strong scrutiny.

88: I have a pretty weak definition of high-level, you don't have to be doing all the end game content. I will also accept explanations from high-level multi classes with secondary specializations in feminism, e.g. Warrior/Feminist or Thief/Feminist/Samurai. Ideally any explanations should come from people who can solo both dragons and the patriarchy.


Posted by: dalriata | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 2:12 PM
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We could change topics to whether 91.1 is sexist, since we have more direct access to PGD's motivation than HS's.


Posted by: Unfoggetarian: "Pause endlessly, then go in." (9) | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 2:13 PM
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95

Just don't call me an awful human being.


Posted by: PGD | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 2:14 PM
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96

Are we fucking seriously having a discussion about whether or not a guy who shamelessly abused his position as a women's studies teacher/ideologue in order to exploit his female students is a sexist? What if I start teaching African-American history in order to convince black people to come work for me for no money/have sex with me on my sugar cane plantation, am I a racist or just a guy who really really likes cheap labor and forced sex on his sugar cane plantation?


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 2:19 PM
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To try to stake out the most extreme position, one could say that hypo-HS was being sexist even when having sex with the male students, because authority figures having sex with their subordinates in our society is inherently sexist because it has a disproportionately large and bad affect on women. But I'm not sure I totally buy it.


Posted by: Unfoggetarian: "Pause endlessly, then go in." (9) | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 2:19 PM
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96 neatly demonstrates the wisdom of the analogy ban.


Posted by: togolosh | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 2:21 PM
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(I suppose the reason we have the analogy ban is so that I can't argue based on hypothetical-1800s-plantation-owner-HS who is deep down just a horn-dog and has sex 50/50 with both black and white women.)


Posted by: Unfoggetarian: "Pause endlessly, then go in." (9) | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 2:23 PM
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96 is great. Sheesh, I know some of you loves you some semantics but come on.


Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 2:25 PM
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Yeah but "what about hypothetical homosexual Hugo Schwyzer" is already an egregious violation of the analogy ban. The fact is that you're talking about a guy who exploited women's studies/feminist rhetoric in order to shamelessly exploit women. I'm not really sure of a definition of sexism that would not include that behavior, except maybe "behavior motivated absolutely exclusively by hatred of women, with no thought whatsoever for any ancillary gain." Which is (a) a pretty crazy definition and (b) even as so limited might apply to Schwyzer.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 2:26 PM
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101 to 98/99.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 2:27 PM
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Didn't Jay Z or J Smoove or...they all sound the same to me...have a nice clip about the "what's in his heart" test for racism a few years ago? Maybe one of you who can remember his name can google it up.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 2:28 PM
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Schwyzer was an iconic figure of feminism for a decade and a half. You folks can't disown him now, any more than the Republicans can disown David Duke. He is the face of feminism for a lot of people, especially his former students, and critics of feminism like myself are going to trot him out at every possible opportunity to discredit the feminist movement.

Sleeping with his students, while it certainly violated policy, was about the least of Schwyzer's many sins.


Posted by: Hector_St_Clare | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 2:31 PM
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96: I don't really see what would be 'racist' about that. And if they want to work for you for free/have sex with you, I'm not sure why it would necessarily be wrong either.


Posted by: Hector_St_Clare | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 2:34 PM
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Halford, you're not putting yourself in the position of a sex-crazed narcissistic manipulator who just happens to be straight. What choice does he have, really? He's going to gain a cult following of starstruck young women who will sleep with him by teaching, what, medieval history? If he could have slept with the entire female student body of Pomona College in a non-sexist way, he would have done it.


Posted by: PGD | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 2:34 PM
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I am so not a high-level feminist, but I think the problem with saying that hypothetical-bi-Schywzer might have treated male and female students badly in exactly the same way is that it's actually kind of hard to treat male and female students badly in exactly the same way. Gender does enter into interpersonal relations. It's not hard at all to imagine hypothetical-bi-Schywzer doing as much damage to his hypothetical male sex objects as he did to his hypothetical female ones, but his specific tactics and actions would be different, and some of those tactics and actions would probably still be things I'd call sexist, because exploiting sexist interpersonal patterns is generally a pretty effective tactic.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 2:34 PM
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Just to be clear, I do think Schwyzer is a sexist (and more so an Awful Person). I don't think sexuality bit-flipped HS would have had half the success he did, thanks to structural issues. He knew this very well and nonetheless proceeded to do what he did.


Posted by: togolosh | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 2:35 PM
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And Halford pretty much said it best, I think.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 2:36 PM
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It was J Smoove, racist. Also: oh, Hector.


Posted by: Den E. Crumb | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 2:37 PM
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Not really relevant, but bi-sexual/homosexual male predators do a ton of damage, as recently demonstrated at Penn State. They tend to target kids.


Posted by: PGD | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 2:40 PM
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Wow, this thread is going downhill fast.


Posted by: Unfoggetarian: "Pause endlessly, then go in." (9) | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 2:41 PM
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Holy shit I thought this discussion couldn't get any more ridiculous and then 105 and 111 came along.


Posted by: potchkeh | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 2:42 PM
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I never heard of him either, and now I can't disown him? That seems unfair.

Also, I assume it's okay to call a self-avowed critic of feminism a cunt, right?


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 2:43 PM
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This was a really unusually terrible thread even before our new house troll showed up.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 2:45 PM
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114.2: might want to think that through a bit.


Posted by: dairy queen | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 2:46 PM
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St. Clair can't be the new house troll, he hasn't brought cake.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 2:48 PM
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111: Pedophiles target kids. Bi/Homosexual predators target postpubescents, as do heterosexual ones.


Posted by: togolosh | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 2:48 PM
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116: In-house usage, of course.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 2:50 PM
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More importantly, I finally got the 4096 tile and was only 32 away from the 8192 tile before my last game over.


Posted by: dalriata | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 2:50 PM
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I think I'm just really unusually bad at these games. I don't think I ever got above 512. Maybe 1024? And on the doge version the doge with the like rainbow thing around his head, I think.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 2:51 PM
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Not the vertical rainbow, the sort of halo thing.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 2:53 PM
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If only house trolls were like house-elves, we could give them a sock and they'd go away.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 2:53 PM
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I got to the doge with the rainbow. The second type with a rainbow.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 2:54 PM
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I think I had whichever is highest of rainbow, pizza, and sunglasses doges.


Posted by: dalriata | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 2:56 PM
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106: he's not teaching at Pomona (or anywhere, now, really) so he can date any of the girls there guilt free.


Posted by: Hector_St_Clare | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 2:56 PM
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Pizza is pretty early. I'm talking about the rainbow pattern in the shape of the dog's head, not the one with the regular rainbow background. I don't know if I've seen sunglasses yet.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 2:59 PM
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It was J Smoove, racist

This is beautiful, because that's Josh Smith's nickname, but the vlogger goes by Jay Smooth. Racist four-point play for you, brother. Anyway, here's the video. It's good.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 3:02 PM
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Yeah, Moby and I are talking about the same pattern. I guess we have a similar level of incompetence.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 3:03 PM
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I just got there again and I didn't see any sunglasses.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 3:04 PM
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And I've spent a nontrivial amount of time with this doge game, because my week has involved a lot of time spent being awake at odd hours from jetlag and yet not really alert or functioning enough to do anything useful, and the game is great for that.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 3:04 PM
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I may have just dreamed sunglasses doge. It seems like there should be one.


Posted by: dalriata | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 3:05 PM
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And now I'm really sleepy again, probably because I woke up at 4 in the fucking morning today. This is getting ridiculous.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 3:05 PM
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Played it a bit, sunglasses doge is immediately after the rainbow halo doge you're talking about.


Posted by: dalriata | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 3:10 PM
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132: No. I'm sure you got much farther than me.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 3:10 PM
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134: See. You're quicker than me.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 3:12 PM
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Ooh, I just got the sunglasses doge! Which looks weirdly catlike. And kind of familiar. I think I must have gotten it once before.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 3:13 PM
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The sunglasses just reveal that they ALL look cat like, probably due to the circular profile.


Posted by: dalriata | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 3:14 PM
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Sigh. After sunglasses is derp doge. I hate that meme.


Posted by: dalriata | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 3:15 PM
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||

It's nice to see Ford also ridiculing that Cadillac ad I complained about, even if it is probably for the same motivations as those ads with interracial families or gay couples.

|>


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 3:16 PM
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Hector, no one cares what you think, you stupid fuck. You are the walking embodiment of Dunning-Krieger syndrome. You are so goddamn stupid I'm surprised you can find the comment box on the page. I bet half the time you accidentally open a blank tab on your browser, and wonder where the page went.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 3:17 PM
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88: Au contraire, not only am I a high-level feminist, I am the Feminist King. I declare Schwyzer to be Sexist and I sentence him to be clamped in an iron mask and sentenced to the prison of Pignerol for the rest of his natural days.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 3:20 PM
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I'm pretty sure we don't need to engage Hector at all.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 3:21 PM
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I do enjoy the way Schwyzer unleashed a civil war within American feminism. I can just sit on the side lines and exploit the rifts.


Posted by: Hector_St_Clare | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 3:21 PM
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I do enjoy the way Schwyzer unleashed a civil war within American feminism. I can just sit on the side lines and exploit the rifts.


Posted by: Hector_St_Clare | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 3:21 PM
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I'm going to assume this whole thread is about 2048 and say that the thing that drives me kind of crazy about that game, now that I play it every now and then, is just how long it can take to still fail to hit 2048.


Posted by: fake accent | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 3:21 PM
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Hector, if we ask nicely, will you go away?


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 3:21 PM
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I am on a train and can't do links easily, but it's very, very, very important to understand that a huge piece of the racism is that HS was awful to women of color, publicly, in horrific ways, and white women (feminists) excused/minimized it, let those stories fall down the memory hole, never got traction.

I haven't read the linked article because the man deserves no more air time whatsoever.

But the general principle that bullying/assault/abuse can happen in full public view to people of color and not get acknowledged for years is really important.


Posted by: Witt | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 3:22 PM
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143: That's what the analogy-ogged of 1939 said about Hitler, and see how that turned out.

But at least Hitler wasn't so goddamn stupid that he would double-post.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 3:23 PM
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I'm not sure quite why you people consider me a troll, but I assure you I am quite sincere.

Walt, I also have a doctorate in plant biology from a top university in my field.


Posted by: Hector_St_Clare | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 3:24 PM
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OK, if we're actually using the structural discrimination definition of sexism, then I think it's wrong to say that Schwyzer - or any individual person - is a sexist.

Animus based on gender, thinking less of one gender or assuming the sexes are fundamentally different, are all attributes that an individual person can have, as an enduring character trait.

Reinforcing or exploiting positions of privilege and power at the expense of women is an action that is sexist because of its social context.

The distinction is important because if you want to change things, you need to know where the problems are coming from.

If you are hiring and all the resumes you see are from men, you need to know whether your recruiter is m-sexist (motivated by animus against women), or structurally sexist (not motivated to exclude women, but following best practices, which happen to interact with society as a whole in a way that leads to fewer women getting hired). If the recruiter is m-sexist, then trying to cooperate with them on the problem is a waste of time and you need to fire them and hire someone who isn't such an m-sexist. If the recruiter is an s-sexist, then you may not need to replace the person, but it's time to have a conversation about where are all the binders full of women.


Posted by: Benquo | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 3:26 PM
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143: endorsed!


Posted by: dairy queen | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 3:26 PM
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So is it some sort of idiot-savant thing? Like you can't tie your shoes, but you're really good at factoring 9-digit numbers? Wait, is there a chapter in an Oliver Sacks book about you?


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 3:27 PM
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and you need to fire them and hire someone who isn't such an m-sexist

or go over their head or route around them if you don't have direct authority over them


Posted by: Benquo | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 3:28 PM
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Walt,

The problem with your analogy is that it's the women's studies clowns who (like Hitler) defend the mass murder of millions of people (the unborn in this case). my side is defending the lives of those folks.


Posted by: Hector_St_Clare | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 3:31 PM
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This is beautiful, because that's Josh Smith's nickname, but the vlogger goes by Jay Smooth. Racist four-point play for you, brother.

I was quoting you, you Mexican whore!


Posted by: Den E. Crumb | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 3:32 PM
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If I'm counting correctly sunglasses-dog is equivalent to a mere 256 in the 2048 game, so there are probably several more doges after derp-doge.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 3:32 PM
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To take a real life example, it seems like more people in HS's life should have told him, much sooner, "hey, you've got some unresolved issues and they're causing you to harm women. Lots of women. If you want to help women the most important thing for you to do is to take care of your own mental health right now, and leave the teaching and advocacy to someone else for a while, until you're stable."

Maybe someone said it and it didn't click. Schwyzer is kind of an edge case - I suspect he kept going not because he's a huge m-sexist but because he's a huge asshole so thinking about other people at all never occurred to him. But in less extreme cases this can be super helpful - IF the person is not a big m-sexist. (If they are, then coercive social pressure starts looking like a more appealing option.)


Posted by: Benquo | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 3:33 PM
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Of course men and women are fundamentally different, and suited to different roles in society. that isn't sexism, it's just biology.

When it comes to gender roles, Fisher agrees with Philippians.

It is also unclear to me why we would want equal numbers of men and women in every job. let people gravitate to the jobs that best suit their interest and talents. a healthy society will and should have some jobs that are mostly male, others that are mostly female. I'd fight very strongly against the specter if a gender neutral world.


Posted by: Hector_St_Clare | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 3:34 PM
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158.1 is funny. If only he had known!


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 3:36 PM
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And how many plants have you murdered in the course of getting Ph.D.? You're the real murderer here.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 3:37 PM
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Oh man, yes, 160 gets it right. Gosh, if only someone had taken him aside and told him exactly the same things that he was telling everyone else in the world over the internet.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 3:38 PM
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160: It is my belief no man ever understands quite his own artful dodges to escape from the grim shadow of self-knowledge.


Posted by: J Conrad | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 3:38 PM
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157: I would have thought the plural of doge is doge.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 3:38 PM
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158: Because hurting people and wielding power against them is a feature, not a bug, for some people.


Posted by: Witt | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 3:38 PM
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162: I'm too lazy to find it, but he actually wrote a post about how too many feminist men tried to score with feminist women, and what we need is "a few good men". I guess it's smart of him to try to eliminate the competition.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 3:39 PM
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163: artful doge


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 3:39 PM
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164: Surely it's dogie.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 3:40 PM
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163: You misspelled "doges". Which misspelled "doge", per 164.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 3:40 PM
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157: This is really making clear to me why we don't use a doge-based numbering system.


Posted by: dalriata | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 3:40 PM
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Goddammit.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 3:40 PM
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dogii.


Posted by: dalriata | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 3:41 PM
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173

The plural of doge should be döge.


Posted by: fake accent | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 3:41 PM
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dogen?


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 3:42 PM
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166: I think I remember that. He did the usual "I used to be a..." and then pivoted to criticism of guys who do exactly what he'd been doing, only not as effectively.


Posted by: togolosh | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 3:43 PM
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160, 162: Like I said, Schwyzer is special.

But it really can make a huge difference to have another human being, who is part of your life already, tell you in person things that maybe you suspected or already knew but didn't want to admit.


Posted by: Benquo | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 3:44 PM
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Although on the other hand if there was really no subjective sincerity at all in his commitment to feminism and his sense of regret then I am in genuine awe at the sheer brazenness of it all.


Posted by: Benquo | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 3:46 PM
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Yes, you're right, and TBH it's one of the few ways I've seen people make permanent and lasting changes.

Really, really tough to pull off, but very effective when you can.


Posted by: Witt | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 3:46 PM
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175: At the time -- this was when he was making a big deal out of the fact that he'd just gotten a circumcision -- I thought was deluded about his true desires. But since then I've come to appreciate that if you have to choose between delusional and lying, "lying" is usually the right answer.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 3:46 PM
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180

178 to 176.


Posted by: Witt | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 3:47 PM
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In the Vosges they read to small dogs about the vogue for doge.


Posted by: fake accent | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 3:47 PM
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182

Little-known fact: Toto was from Doge.


Posted by: fake accent | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 3:49 PM
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Derp-doge must be 1024 because I got "you win" afterwards with a score of 21008. It's a doge moving around in a sunburst on a black background. Exciting.


Posted by: dalriata | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 3:50 PM
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182: Long way to go to bless the rains down in Africa.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 3:52 PM
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140: That Cadillac ad takes on a whole different meaning if you remember that Neal McDonough's character on "Justified" was representing the Detroit mafia.


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 3:58 PM
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186

Get along, little dogee


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 4:01 PM
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162: Schwyzer can keep the feminist women to himself. I'm mostly interested in non-feminist girls who like traditional gender roles and would be turned off by a feminist wuss like Schwyzer.


Posted by: Hector_St_Clare | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 4:01 PM
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188

Awesome version of the 2048 game: isotopes.


Posted by: Turgid Jacobian | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 4:01 PM
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189

Not to defend the guy, but apparently he truly is massively, medicate the hell out of him, bugfuck crazy. Which doesn't help the people he's abused or make the behavior any less problematic, but possibly affects the moral weight to be attached to his behavior.


Posted by: DaveL | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 4:02 PM
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187: Good luck with that!


Posted by: DaveL | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 4:04 PM
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177, 189: I think there was some sincerity (or desire to be sincere, or self-image as moral) there and the contradiction drives him nuts. He keeps having hige crack-ups because at some level he believes the line of bull he uses to seduce other people.

187: one of the funny things about watching the PUA crowd, in particular, write about Schwyzer was that he was always, quite clearly, the sexual predator they fantasized about being. Not exactly a wuss.


Posted by: PGD | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 4:09 PM
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189: Yeah, this seems very clearly to be the case.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 4:15 PM
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193

Dave L,

Thanks. I've been having a lot more success with girls since I decided to stop giving a damn what feminists think of me.


Posted by: Hector_St_Clare | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 4:19 PM
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189, 192: his condition doesn't minimize what's he's done or absolve him of moral culpability, but I do think it's made some of the public shitstorm that's still being directed against him after last August's breakdowns and suicide attempts counter-productive, if the goal is to minimize the harm he can and will do.


Posted by: Criminally Bulgur | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 4:32 PM
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195

193 is terrifying.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 4:32 PM
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196

Figure that 'a lot more' has to be calculated from whatever the previous baseline was, and be reassured.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 4:35 PM
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197

I was thinking that, 0*5 still equals 0, but frankly it's the definition of "success" that's really scaring me.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 4:36 PM
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193: So have you been going for incall or outcall?


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 4:37 PM
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What's cute about the new troll is how ill-suited he is for the middle-aged, largely partnered, baby-friendly commentariat. Bro it hurts that you are getting with the honeys on wing night at El Fishbowl. I should reconsider all my politics!


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 4:40 PM
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200

I think 193 is actually kind of a best-case scenario.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 4:40 PM
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201

I mean 198.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 4:41 PM
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199: Don't be mean. I'm shocked and threatened, despite my advanced years and sedate lifestyle.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 4:42 PM
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203

He did the usual "I used to be a..." and then pivoted to criticism of guys who do exactly what he'd been doing, only not as effectively.

Oudemia had him dead to rights.


Posted by: knecht ruprecht | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 4:43 PM
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202: think what a harem of Bucks you could have if you adopted the right, submissive pose!


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 4:45 PM
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199: "El Fishbowl" s/b "the lunchroom at my middle school", or whatever the homeschool equivalent may be.


Posted by: DaveL | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 4:47 PM
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206

This is really making clear to me why we don't use a doge-based numbering system.

In doge years, I just turned yin-yang, pepperoni, googly-eyes, cosmos* years old.

*Assuming that background is a picture of some piece of deep outer space.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 4:52 PM
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150.2: Very credential.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 4:53 PM
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204: Somehow, this comment just turned into a whole lot of antlers.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 4:57 PM
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202, 204: older women can still snag hot 19-year old boys if they trade on their advantages- status, security, being a nurturing caretaker, etc. are all things you can actually do better at a more advanced age.


Posted by: Hector_St_Clare | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 4:58 PM
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Even my cold cereal doth taste like wormwood.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 5:02 PM
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211

Submissiveness is incredibly attractive to a lot of guys, including me, but not to everyone, so you don't *have to* do anything. different things are attractive to different people.


Posted by: Hector_St_Clare | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 5:03 PM
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212

I thought you had to do more with submissive people.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 5:06 PM
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The neat thing about 150 is that it leaves H_S_C's present field unspecified, so his doctorate in plant biology could have come from a top university in, say, paleography.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 5:07 PM
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If you have a doctorate in plant biology but currently work in paleography that would be a pretty damn interesting career path, probably.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 5:08 PM
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211: So you're saving your allowance for one of these?


Posted by: DaveL | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 5:12 PM
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213: He's pretty easy to google (or at least someone with a similar name in that field is) and it comes from a legitimately impressive university. I don't know about their plant bio program but their departments I do know about (CS and cog sci) are top notch. Which I guess doesn't disprove your point, but I believe him.


Posted by: dalriata | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 5:32 PM
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Nosflow,

I'm happy to stop commenting here, if you are the proprietor of this blog and request it. I would like to know why though, since I've tried to refrain from being impolite.


Posted by: Hector_St_Clare | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 5:43 PM
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This thread inspired me to finally get to 2048. Every time I thought of giving up I remembered there was something else I could be doing that would be an even greater waste of my time: watching people get trolled.


Posted by: fake accent | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 5:47 PM
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We have a new troll. Oh well. Still, though, I'm surprised to hear (104) that Schwyzer was an iconic figure of feminism for a decade and a half. The article linked in the OP seems to acknowledge it in some fashion. I really did not know that. Consider me educated.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 6:23 PM
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I would never have thought to google, but since 216 inspired me to do so, it seems our troll has something of a reputation. And a history of pretty offensive trolling. I'd suggest someone ask him to go away.


Posted by: urple | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 6:37 PM
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This description from CT comments makes him sound a lot more interesting than he's let on so far. This week H_S_C has been pretty boring and straightforwardly misogynist.

"Hector's a little more of a unique snowflake than that. His ethos, as far as I could ever make it out, was a weird combination of Christian millenarianism, Pol Pot-style agrarian supremacism, Russian self-pity and quasi-environmental crackpot doomsaying. Basically, after peak oil, the meek shall inherit the earth, not because they're blessed, but because only hardy Russian peasants have the capacity for stoic suffering necessary to survive the econolypse. (The meek, of course, to be firmly guided by a church authority: I could never quite tell if he intended for it to be Rome or one of the Orthodox hierarchies, not that it matters much.)"


Posted by: Unfoggetarian: "Pause endlessly, then go in" (9) | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 6:43 PM
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Topic change! Did we already discuss Talking Points Memo and their new "sponsored content"? Alex Yorkshire Ranter has an interesting take on it, I thought.

(My own opinion is at the bottom of the second CT thread. In a nutshell: Research on how doctors are influenced by free pens from pharma companies suggests that you don't have to do a blatant quid pro quo in order to be unconsciously influenced by your sponsors.)


Posted by: Witt | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 6:47 PM
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I got a free pen from the snack truck I bought a breakfast sandwich from this morning. So, you know, it's not just pharma playing these dirty tricks.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 6:48 PM
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216, 220, 221: Huh. Not even a real 14 year old.


Posted by: DaveL | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 6:51 PM
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223: What godawful pun was it named with?


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 6:51 PM
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223: Obviously we all need to go on the LB plan and get our office supplies from opposing counsel.


Posted by: DaveL | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 6:52 PM
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225: no pun I don't think. This is an old-school food truck, of the breakfast sandwiches-for-construction-workers type.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 6:53 PM
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I don't really get what TPM is trying to do with "Idealab". They had someone who I think was a dedicated reporter for that part of the site but he left for The Verge. Ever since then it's been dominated by wire stories, basically. I haven't read TPM in months so when I saw this controversy I thought they'd revamped that part of the site, but it looks like it's now wire stories plus sponsored content. I mean, I guess it's a bit of a problem but the bigger question is why you'd ever click on anything on that part of the site.


Posted by: fake accent | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 7:04 PM
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Sometimes the heavy commercialization of the modern day internet gets me down, but then I think screw this! it's time to unplug. So I hop in my Volvo XC90, roll down the windows and pop in some adult contemporary jams, and take a cruise along the local waterfront and/or music festival and/or festive ethnic celebration. Sometimes I bring the family! The XC90 is so safe and spacious I don't even need to think twice about it.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 7:08 PM
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229: Not bad, but Kevin Drum beat you to it.


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 7:10 PM
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This is the least cool I've ever been.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 7:11 PM
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227: Like with the metal hatches that open on the sides and back, but nobody can stand inside the back or anything?


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 7:11 PM
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232: yah.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 7:13 PM
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I haven't seen one of those in years.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 7:16 PM
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234: One of the advantages of living close to auto repair shops: there's one that stops off across the street every morning at 11.


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 7:17 PM
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I've never seen a moving auto repair shop either.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 7:20 PM
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Moby runs in some rarefied circles. What about a Tiffany lamp Zeppelin, Moby? You see those a lot?


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 7:22 PM
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No, but I'm sitting in a room with a Tiffany lamp (it's probably a fake) and on two different occasions, I've been walking home from work and seen a blimp.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 7:24 PM
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Are you sure it wasn't some other kind of airship? Because if it has an internal skeleton, even if it's only semi-rigid, it's not a blimp. Not many people know that.


Posted by: snarkout | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 7:33 PM
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238: On either one, did it say "Moby Hick's a pimp"?


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 7:34 PM
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239: It said "Goodyear" on the side.

240: The lamp does now. Thanks for the idea.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 7:35 PM
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241.1: The newest Goodyear blimp isn't a blimp.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 7:47 PM
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242: Heresy!


Posted by: torrey pine | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 7:56 PM
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Well, it's a fine dirigible nonetheless.


Posted by: fake accent | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 7:57 PM
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But it looks so... traditional. Why not go for something more modern?


Posted by: torrey pine | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 8:05 PM
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An invitation to philosophical discussion:

The three trusses mean that the new airship is semi-rigid. As such it is not a blimp, which is defined as non-rigid with the pressure of air and helium the only things maintaining the shape of the envelope. But Goodyear's newest airship will still be called a blimp. "The term Goodyear Blimp is so universally recognized that the company is proud to have it continue, regardless of any technical difference," said Goodyear spokesman Doug Grassian.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 8:08 PM
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My father did a fair bit of work with the blimps.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 8:14 PM
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Finally. Fucking sunglasses doge.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 8:18 PM
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246: I guess I can see why Goodyear wouldn't want the P-791, aka "the blimp with three buttocks."


Posted by: torrey pine | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 8:21 PM
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247 is kind of TMI, Stormcrow, but I guess anything flies on Saturday nights here.


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 8:23 PM
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So in about 20 hours it will be OK to have shared that?


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 8:28 PM
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Oh, right. I was off work today and apparently I have no brain. (That definitely explains why I was tempted to try to restart the HS discussion.)


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 8:31 PM
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I just missed whatever was after sunglasses doge by one more rainbow (2nd level) doge.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 8:39 PM
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221 & 220;

Rest assured that the feeling is mutual, I think your views are as morally outrageous as you think of mine.

The specific issues that infuriated me about Schwyzer were:

1) his advocacy of abortion rights.
2) his criticisms of age-disparate relationships, especially 30+ year olds with 18-24 year olds.
3) his idiotic claims that gender differences are the result of cultural conditioning rather than biology.
4) his fondness for Judaism and Islam.

Id feel a lot more comfortable with him if he would repudiate those views wholesale.


Posted by: Hector_St_Clare | Link to this comment | 03-28-14 11:06 PM
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Is Idealab something like that torso than which none greater can be conceived?


Posted by: Bave | Link to this comment | 03-29-14 12:27 AM
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It looks like the last comment I posted on this thread was about 7 PM eastern time, so that must have been around when I fell asleep. I just woke up. Maybe I should just accept waking up at 4 AM and going to bed in early evening as my new normal sleep pattern.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 03-29-14 1:02 AM
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Or maybe I need to take 6 more trips to China to gradually rotate my sleep pattern back around the clock.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 03-29-14 1:02 AM
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12 trips to Alaska would probably work too.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 03-29-14 1:09 AM
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I took some melatonin and now seem to be on a similar schedule to essear. Not sure if this is an improvement.


Posted by: dalriata | Link to this comment | 03-29-14 1:19 AM
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I thought melatonin was supposed to prevent insomnia.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 03-29-14 1:23 AM
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That was my intent. It did work well at getting me to sleep, but now I'm up after six hours later. Since its mechanism is by regulating/shifting the diurnal cycle that's not too unexpected and this does happen to me some small fraction of the time I use it. It's be nice if I could go back to sleep because I'm probably going to be too groggy to do anything real for a few hours.


Posted by: dalriata | Link to this comment | 03-29-14 1:47 AM
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The fact is that you're talking about a guy who exploited women's studies/feminist rhetoric in order to shamelessly exploit women.

And, of course, to construct for himself a mighty high horse from which to dispense (unentitledly) moral and cultural judgments -- an edifice unavailable to the vast majority of recovering addicts, misbehaving academics, people with mental health issues and colossal assholes. It speaks ill of something other than HS -- the Internet? stupid people? stupid people on the Internet? feminism? Internet feminism? academia? Pasadena Community College? -- that he could so transparently mine the rhetoric and jargon of Internet feminism to dress up like a judge-of-all-and-everything-forever (what comes to mind is Blood Meridian for some reason) and have his pronouncements respected.


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 03-29-14 7:05 AM
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Hey, where's text? I bet he would have some clever ripostes for our guest.


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 03-29-14 7:22 AM
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I've had good results using melatonin to regulate sleep cycles doing the East Coast-Africa trip. Usually takes about two days to get everything really on track. The key is to take it right before you want to sleep and then stick with the schedule. A beer helps, too.


Posted by: togolosh | Link to this comment | 03-29-14 8:05 AM
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Sunglasses doge again.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 03-29-14 8:06 AM
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Isn't the derp doge after that?


Posted by: Barry Freed | Link to this comment | 03-29-14 8:19 AM
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264: Usually melatonin works best if I take it around an hour before I want to fall asleep. If I miss that window I'll be completely out of it for the rest of the night but won't get to bed any earlier and will probably feel horrible the next day. I've had mixed results using alcohol with it but I did have a beer last night.

Whatever, after I became coherent around six I've been productive so I can't really complain.


Posted by: dalriata | Link to this comment | 03-29-14 8:20 AM
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266: sunglasses -> derp -> sunburst. I'm not sure if I want to try for the 4096 doge.


Posted by: dalriata | Link to this comment | 03-29-14 8:21 AM
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I tried it on the number one. On my first try I got 512, which is sunglasses doge. I don't know if it was luck or just easier for me.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 03-29-14 8:26 AM
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Meh, I checked the source and there isn't any 4096 doge. application.js has the list of images and there's only 11 of them. According to html_actuator.js if you do get above 2048 it sets the tile's class to tile-super, which in main.css is defined to just be derp-doge. No fun.


Posted by: dalriata | Link to this comment | 03-29-14 8:33 AM
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Now you people are just making shit up.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 03-29-14 8:46 AM
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The original is similar in that everything above 2048 uses that same blackish background, but at least you have the text to distinguish it. Doge2048 sets the font to be transparent on the parent .tile class so it will just be indistinguishable derp-doges forever.

I'm surprised by how much logic is embedded in the CSS. It's a lot more powerful than I thought it was.


Posted by: dalriata | Link to this comment | 03-29-14 8:52 AM
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For those who want to follow along at home without the time suck of playing, here's a chart with all the pics with number values helpfully attached (scroll down a bit). I used it for figuring out my age in doge years.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 03-29-14 9:28 AM
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Now you people are just making shit up.

Doge tiles of unusual size? I don't believe they exist.


Posted by: fake accent | Link to this comment | 03-29-14 10:06 AM
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Sorry to change the topic back, but Hector has been trolling liberals for decades, although I do believe his trollery is sincere. This thread just tipped me to the fact that we go way back. Oh, the memories.


Posted by: Hugo Chavez | Link to this comment | 03-29-14 1:28 PM
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||

A friend of mine -- someone I saw rarely but loved and admired dearly -- has shot and killed himself. Our musical improv group had booked a reunion show this month but it fell through. I was looking forward to playing with him again, and idly meaning to get together and jam. I am so very sad that he's gone.

He was amazingly creative -- here's a sonnet after Buckminster Fuller, here's a self-portrait, here's a book of guitars he cobbled together, here's a happy valentine's day. He was the most sympatico person I met doing improv.

(warning: if you click on the overall tumblr, it begins with his suicide note.)

|>


Posted by: k-sky | Link to this comment | 03-29-14 2:02 PM
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That's awful, k-sky. I'm very sorry.


Posted by: Den E. Crumb | Link to this comment | 03-29-14 2:06 PM
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What 277 said. Christ. Condolences.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 03-29-14 2:11 PM
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Condolences.


Posted by: torrey pine | Link to this comment | 03-29-14 2:12 PM
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276: So sorry for your loss.


Posted by: ydnew | Link to this comment | 03-29-14 2:27 PM
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Damn, k-sky. Very sorry.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 03-29-14 2:35 PM
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Condolences to you and all close to him.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 03-29-14 2:39 PM
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Thanks. It's hard to think of it as "my loss" exactly when I'd seen so little of him but I'm also very angry at him for taking something away from me.


Posted by: k-sky | Link to this comment | 03-29-14 2:40 PM
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That's beyond horrible, k-sky. I am so terribly sorry to hear it.


Posted by: Witt | Link to this comment | 03-29-14 2:42 PM
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I'm so sorry, k-sky. His note and its push to have people support his friends' endeavors was particularly upsetting and sweet and gross all at once.


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 03-29-14 2:44 PM
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My condolences, k-sky.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 03-29-14 2:53 PM
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I'm sorry, k-sky. That's terrible.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 03-29-14 2:54 PM
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Oh Jesus. I'm so sorry, k-sky.


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 03-29-14 3:04 PM
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285: The two women are our musical improv teacher and coach. The coach, to whom he'd become quite close to, found out as she was in the hospital to have her baby.


Posted by: k-sky | Link to this comment | 03-29-14 3:11 PM
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Sorry for your loss.


Posted by: idp | Link to this comment | 03-29-14 3:36 PM
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God, how awful; I'm so sorry. 285 gets it exactly.


Posted by: x.trapnel | Link to this comment | 03-29-14 3:49 PM
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All my sympathies, k sky. Chilling note.


Posted by: dairy queen | Link to this comment | 03-29-14 4:07 PM
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Oh my god, how awful. And how extra awful 289.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 03-29-14 4:52 PM
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Sorry to hear this as well.


Posted by: J, Robot | Link to this comment | 03-29-14 5:31 PM
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Sorry to hear this as well.


Posted by: J, Robot | Link to this comment | 03-29-14 5:32 PM
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Oh, wow. Sympathies, k-sky.


Posted by: fake accent | Link to this comment | 03-29-14 5:36 PM
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Oh, god. My sympathies.


Posted by: dalriata | Link to this comment | 03-29-14 5:41 PM
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Very very sorry to hear this.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 03-29-14 5:54 PM
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285 is right. My condolences, k-sky.


Posted by: snarkout | Link to this comment | 03-29-14 5:54 PM
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Sorry for the loss, k-sky. Yours, and the world's.


Posted by: Benquo | Link to this comment | 03-29-14 5:57 PM
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Wow, that hits close. I'm so very sorry.


Posted by: Barry Freed | Link to this comment | 03-29-14 6:15 PM
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I'm really sorry.


Posted by: teraz kurwa my | Link to this comment | 03-29-14 6:20 PM
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Condolences, k-sky.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 03-29-14 6:46 PM
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Thanks guys. Everywhere else has been quiet about this -- I'm hesitating to be the first person to put it on FB -- and it's comforting to have this bunch of weirdos to lament to. You would have liked each other.


Posted by: k-sky | Link to this comment | 03-29-14 7:13 PM
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Oh, K-sky. I am so sorry.


Posted by: | Link to this comment | 03-29-14 7:18 PM
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Very sorry, k-sky.


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 03-29-14 7:49 PM
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sorry k-sky!


Posted by: alameida | Link to this comment | 03-29-14 8:31 PM
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Yes, very sorry to hear that, k-sky.


Posted by: Stranded in Lubbock | Link to this comment | 03-29-14 8:58 PM
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So sorry to hear this.


Posted by: chris y | Link to this comment | 03-30-14 3:56 AM
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That sucks, k-sky. My condolences added to the chorus.


Posted by: Parenthetical | Link to this comment | 03-30-14 5:13 AM
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So very sorry, k-sky. That's rough.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 03-30-14 6:29 AM
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largely partnered

Sizeist.


Posted by: Todd | Link to this comment | 03-30-14 3:22 PM
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