I'd have thought 'knowing a guy' would become more credible with age, not less. I certainly know more 'guys' than I did when I was in my twenties.
I'm not even sure if you're talking about knowing criminals or referring people to your accountant.
Yes, with the lamentable exception of procuring illegal drugs, I definitely know way more guys capable of resolving situations than I did when I was younger.
"Relax, I know a guy. He can't help you at all, but he's a guy and I know him."
Yeah, I mean knowing a guy in a biblical extra-legal way; like calling Mr. Fox in Pulp Fiction, or in the sense of my friend's dad, who happened to mention to a guy that his wife wanted new China, only to have that guy show up a few days later with a trunk full of new (new?) China for him. But I don't just mean knowing criminals; more fix-it guys. Maybe those guys are typically criminals.
The "guys" I know are all washed up and have kids.
Actually, there is one guy I still know, but he's pushing 40 and needs to grow the fuck up.
But you know (at least online) guys who know guys. That's almost as good. If you make an enemy, he would become our enemy. And then he would fear you. Or he would be found in a sorry condition somewhere in Alaska having been abducted, sedated, seduced, sued, mocked, boycotted, out-argued, re-designed, crocheted and then kicked repeatedly in the head.
It's not that you're too old, ogged, it's that you've rejected your immigrant heritage.
Isn't "Relax, I know a guy" one of Saul Goodman's more common lines?
you know (at least online) guys who know guys
Let me try this out. "Relax, I "know" a guy online who knows some guys."
it's that you've rejected your immigrant heritage.
God, you're right. I actually do know a guy who could totally be that guy, but I haven't stayed in any kind of touch. My mistake!
He who knows guys should see to it that he himself does not become a known guy. And when you long know a guy, the guy also knows you.
No wait, Saul Goodman generally knows a guy who knows a guy.
But hey, I should have guessed this website existed.
12.last: I know this because my mom has a greek friend who always "knows a guy" (or actually "has a guy"). Need a car? He's got a guy. Tax advice? He's got a guy. Stone wall to build? He's got a guy. Want to buy a cheap boat? He's got a guy.
N.B. the greek friend in question is a retired judge. The complex interplay between this fact and the other facts mentioned left implicit.
Right, they say that if you want a hitman, talk to a an ex-cop (he'll know a guy).
I think I have pink eye and that I got it from a retired judge.
Need some tobramycin drops? I know a guy.
Was it Mr. Wolf? Christ, I've been reading Fantastic Mr. Fox too many times.
Not to worry. You get old enough and don't care about anything, you can be your own guy.
People who can get things done usually avoid casual engagement IME. Knowing someone competent is basically having status, saying so is boasting about it.
Also, the attitude towards favors/exchanging help are different among native-born Americans (basically, don't do this ever-- services are mostly paid for and chosen like consumer goods in a store; OK, maybe this is mostly for middle-aged, well off people) and among immigrants (Yes, I'll put up a tenously-connected stranger in my house for a few nights, or help someone move). While it was kind of cloying in places, My Big Fat Greek Wedding got this basically right.
24 seems wrong, because old boys' network.
9: abducted, sedated, seduced, sued, mocked, boycotted, out-argued, re-designed, crocheted and then kicked repeatedly in the head.
I can't help but wonder who fits in where on this list. I mean, I know where I do, but everyone else?
26: I'm pretty confident where I land.
25, Old boys' networks wont drive a trunk full of China up to your house or help you move if you're short on money.
They might be good for internship suggestions for a growing kid, or a broad discussion of whether your business plan is well suited to cloud services or something. I don't really think of that as knowing a guy, and honestly, I do not see WASPs helping each other out in jams.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bl1qP8_CUAEvAI1.jpg:large
They're just different kinds of jams. "Oh no how do I figure out if I'm going to be indicted by the task force?" "I know a guy let me check."
31: Those are all the people lw asked to kill someone as a favor, but said no.
They're just different kinds of jams.
Sifu understands knowing a guy culture.
33: I saw it referenced as being part of some Harvard grad school application. Presumably to see if some you come with some bonus funding per 33.
They're just different kinds of jams. "Oh no how do I figure out if I'm going to be indicted by the task force?" "I know a guy let me check."
Exactly.
Your forties is the sweet spot for this stuff. You know lots of older people and younger people to send people to see.
Twitter, where it's described as part of the grad school application there.
https://twitter.com/DeclanBowman/status/458639559358566400
ogged's jams now involve needing a guy for:
1. babysitting
2.stain removal
3.what to do with sick kids
4.what to do with cranky kids
5.getting into preschool
re: 26
I'm going to be pretty pissed off if I only get to perform one of the roles on that list.
These days, I actually live quite close to a few of my friends, for the first time in years. I'm pretty sure for lots of things they probably do know a 'guy' [they are working class Irish or Mackem guys], although none of them are criminally shady. So, getting a van at short notice, or finding a tradesman who'll do something as a 'homer', yes. Having someone beaten up, or getting hold of something unambiguously illegal, no.
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At a talk on bottom-up derivation of Haidt-style moral violation categories. Somebody on Mechanical Turk apparently thinks "starting a business without planning ahead" is a moral violation.
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In my teens and early twenties, I probably knew 'guys' for quite a lot of very definitely illegal things. Although, I would never have been stupid enough to ask for favours from most of them.
When I got beaten up once, aged about 16, the guy in question had to move. As my 'guys'* were known to be after him. I called them off, but it was quite nice to know someone sort of had my back.
* just some local biker types, and petty criminal friends from school. Not serious crooks. But they'd have fucked him up if they'd caught him.
Unfogged would eat this up, actually. Maybe I'll try to come up with a way to share more of it with you.
It would make Cosma very sad, though.
43: Yeah, figuring in that I was slotted in as the crochet expert was a bit of a blow. I mean, fair enough, I suppose, but still.
28.1: I was helping so many people move back in graduate school. Never go to grad school with a pickup because you'll be moving dozens of people.
re: 49
I assumed you were also under 'out-argued'.
I used to know car thieves and people who would take the SATs for you. Neither of those capacities were useful to me. Now they are all orthopedic surgeons, which I suppose I might need one day.
I get called on to watch other people's kids, which seems eminently reasonable.
I had hopes for "seduced, sued, mocked ... and then kicked repeatedly in the head" as well.
I lead a rich, full, fantasy life.
It sounds like Arlo Guthrie is describing this person's draft admission process.
I don't think I'm much good for anything on that list other than "mocked," but we've got a deep bench here for that particular skill.
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Unpleasant bit of settlement negotiations there. I never know when lawyers shouting are genuinely insane or shamming irrationality for negotiating purposes. And I'm never sure with that kind of interaction whether staying calm myself is inflammatory, and if there's something other than staying calm that would be chilling things out better. I mean, I'd hate to miss a good deal because my affect makes the nutcase I'm talking to enraged, but with that kind of guy I'm not clear on how to be less enraging.
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When you figure 57 out, let me know, because we've got a similar thing going on with Hawaii.
58: you'll crush her when it gets before a judge.
Every now and then we muse "Wouldn't life be easier with just one kid?" but then we always continue "But that would be Hawaii" who is by far our most difficult kid, and life would not actually be particularly less work. So we always end up saying we might as well have had the easy kids, too.
59: I wouldn't be in settlement negotiations if the substance of the issues weren't such that that isn't a sure thing. And while I'm calling the guy a nutcase because it makes me happy, he's actually pretty good in front of a judge.
61: I meant Heebie. You should try to settle, for sure.
54: I had you pegged for all of those!
Honestly, it would be totally unfair if we just had one person for each slot.
It's funny, but I don't think I've ever been in a settlement negotiation where there was screaming. Plenty of other disputes, sure, but IME if you're talking settlement at all you're close to a deal and people shift into "apparently reasonable" mode. Maybe if there's a real sense of betrayal on something previously promised, but even there I think it's just been more like "this is ridiculous, the negotiation is over" and then back to the fight.
63: sure, but there are some people whom we should rule out of some of the categories. Anyone with a chronic limp should probably be excused kicking duties, for example.
Speaking of knowing a guy, I asked my PI friend (who is not, strictly speaking, a guy) about finding local PIs in foreign countries, and she said a person should just inquire at the American embassy, because they use them all the time. So, the state department knows a bunch of guys.
64: Hrm. I get it a fair amount -- I figure it as a form of playing chicken: "I'm just crazy enough to blow up this deal unless we get some more concessions." I am also, I think, often litigating at a less classy level than you are -- opposing counsel in this case is a two-man firm being hired by a smallish business, not BigLaw.
45: I don't think I'm clear on what "bottom-up derivation" means in this context.
Maybe top-down would be "from abstract reasoning" or something, so bottom-up might be from empirical data? I guess that would be logical but I'm used to such an idiosyncratic version of the bottom-up versus top-down distinction that it seems counterintuitive to me.
67.cont: Also, maybe I'm just more irritating than you are?
Two lawyers enter! One lawyer reduces the other to incoherent rage! Two lawyers enter!...
Sifu's 15 is funny to me because the most "has a guy" person I know is a 70-year-old New England matron. She can have 2 guys from Cranston with a pickup truck at your disposal within 2 hours for basically any task. Or, like, a surveyor, or whatever.
70 and previous: whaaaaat?! Settlement negotiations in NYC don't have the laid-back, mellow vibe of those that happen in the (loose) orbit of the entertainment industry in LA? How can this be?!
Presumably Halford's negotiations start with everybody agreeing that they are not only on the same page, but that the page in question is the best possible outcome for everybody involved, and not only that, perhaps the most perfect example of a settlement ever devised in the history of the earth, a document anybody would be proud -- nay, honored -- to be a party to, and then end with no agreement.
I practiced at about the lowest level there is, and encountered shouting and crying several times a year. I used to dream of the civilities of commercial litigation.
Somebody on Mechanical Turk apparently thinks "starting a business without planning ahead" is a moral violation.
Well, if you think of starting a business as implying borrowing money or labor from friends and family this would make sense, but that's a bit of a stretch.
Based on stories from a consultant friend vs. those from a BigLaw friend, it sounds like consultants deal with true crazy that most lawyers never see.
I'm pretty sure for lots of things they probably do know a 'guy' [they are working class Irish or Mackem guys], although none of them are criminally shady. So, getting a van at short notice, or finding a tradesman who'll do something as a 'homer', yes.
For this type of thing, I too now know 'guys.' Never before has this been the case; nor was it the case in my childhood, as far as I can tell. (Now, if you needed a guy who could loan you a mandolin, we had one of those.) I can't tell if it is a cultural difference between California and southernish England; if it is a difference in how I'm integrated into the community (among business owners/retailers rather than medical/educational professionals); or what. It's nice knowing we can get shit done, though.
78: yeah I mean I think there are certainly some industries where, beyond a certain level of seniority, being a screaming, chaotic, emotionally labile baby-person is pretty much an accepted method for deal-making.
Lawyers at all levels of classiness scream all the time here. It's just in the particular settlement negotiation context I can't remember it, even from people who were full throated screaming about discovery or whatever.
73 She can have 2 guys from Cranston with a pickup truck at your disposal within 2 hours for basically any task. Or, like, a surveyor, or whatever.
What about an African tour guide?
80: I don't usually think of academia as an "industry", but it fits.
68: I assumed it meant something like crowd-sourcing a bunch of ideas, and then trying to discover commonality between them, instead of reasoning top-down from fundamental principals. Something like that.
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We put a call out on campus to see if anyone wanted to take over my Monstrous Administrative Program, and hadn't heard from anyone, and I was feeling low. Turns out multiple highly competent people emailed the provost directly, expressing interest! I'm so goddamn relieved. Take it, it's yours! Get it off me.
Two more weeks until I'm on sabbatical!
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Oop, I missed 68. 85 is right; asking a ton of people on Turk to come up with moral violations, clustering them and then doing factor analysis.
68: I assumed it meant something like crowd-sourcing a bunch of ideas, and then trying to discover commonality between them, instead of reasoning top-down from fundamental principals. Something like that.
28: Old boys' networks, though, will get you your job at the heart of the British intelligence services back after you've basically been caught bang to rights as a Soviet spy and incidentally driven your wife to suicide.
Two more weeks until I'm on sabbatical!
Staying near home, or traveling somewhere?
Staying near home. Some collaboration up in Austin with people who faintly terrify me.
92:
Kraab and M/M are terrifying to me too.
Based on stories from a consultant friend vs. those from a BigLaw friend, it sounds like consultants deal with true crazy that most lawyers never see.
Biglaw doesn't equal most lawyers. I would be happy to have a crazy-off with consultants. There is no way that consultants deal with true crazy more than we do.
I would bet heavily on Will's side in that crazy-off. (The family lawyer on the other side in my divorce tried yelling at me. I just laughed at him and called his bluff and so it didn't work, but he clearly operated on a yell-first principle. And that's just the lawyers, not the clients).
There is no way that consultants deal with true crazy more than we do.
Probably true. But my friend told of a client who insisted on meeting in a hotel hot tub, from which he would emerge naked, walking around it, his cock at my friend's eye-level, loudly berating my friend and his firm for several minutes at a time. This is more "how much shit do you have to eat" than "how much crazy do you see," I think, but it's still pretty crazy.
In a settlement conference, a wife once offered to give her underwear to my client and me so that we could sell them bc she thought our demands were too high. She was fired up and stood up abruptly and my first thought was "oh shit! She is going to take them off and hand them to me right now!"
98: Lee's settlement conference is tomorrow. I'll suggest not doing that.
There is no way that consultants deal with true crazy more than we do.>/i>
It's like you don't even watch House of Lies.
I don't know what I did with the tags there.
asking a ton of people on Turk to come up with moral violations
Is Turk really the place to ask about moral violations? Those people would stab a hobo for 85 cents.
I didn't notice "stabbing a hobo" among the violations listed. He did name his two main factors "libertines" and "psychopaths", so maybe that's because Turk is full of psychopaths.
28, 33: I know a guy who can check yes to one of those boxes. Grew up as a nicely middle-class faculty kid but got insanely rich in telecom. At least one of his kids benefited from the same trust anyway.
OT: I have just been gifted a used bicycle and I'm fairly certain this isn't somebody trying to see if I won't die in traffic. It's very old looking and says "Phillips" and "Made in England." It's a three-speed with old-man handle bars. Is it going to be a pain on hills?
There aren't any hills in Pittsburgh, so it shouldn't be a problem.
Will it be a pain on a dissected plateau? Who can tell?
a three-speed with old-man handle bars
Old-mandle bars.
It's always heartwarming to see how quickly Unfogged yields helpful responses to earnest questions like Moby's.
"GIFT" IS NOT A VERB!!!!!!!!!!
I guess I know a fair amount of guys. Certainly more than I did 15 years ago. Maybe less than 5 years ago, though. Most of my most solid guys are through the activist/weird arts scene though, so I can totally put you in touch with people who do unlicensed tree-trimming, or are good at hanging lights, or could get you a deal on some costuming help. Not so much with having dead bodies disposed of.
I do know any number of people who could answer Moby's question in exhaustive detail, some of them with direct biking-in-P'burgh experience.
"Gift" as a verb bugs the shit out of me because I've watched it happen. I heard it for the first time 20+ years ago in wills and trusts class and now it's everywhere. I guess people thought that imitating lawyerly affectations made them sound smarter, but it didn't, and now it's too late.
From my local mothers board:
Anyone have a home remedy for a "boo-boo" that is getting infected. The Dr said he wants to give oral antibiotics but i said I could fix it. He said if i cant make it better by monday i have to call him. its kinda deep under the skin so ive been soaking him in epsom salt baths and its looking better. any suggestions? he is almost two and its on the back of his heal..
Gross, and jesus. People are suggesting silver and oil and other hocus-pocus.
From Peace Corps experience, frequent hot water soaks with epsom salts probably will work fine. (Or regular salt. The heat's the main thing.)
113: Using real medicine is too easy. This mom needs a challenge. She can parlay her success into a "one weird trick to avoid antibiotics" campaign. (Do you kind of want to suggest Neosporin or some other topical?) Poor kid.
The facts in PI cases involving tree trimmers are the most astounding parade of idiocies, really beyond imagining. Baroque contortions of stupidity. A high proportion of plaintiffs are survivors.
105: does it feel heavy? If no, does it have a sticker on the frame someplace that says "531"? If yes, it might not be too sluggish on hills. Should be fun either way, though.
the most astounding parade of idiocies, really beyond imagining
This place is full of lawyers and academics. Imagining idiocies is pretty much what we all do.
Yes, and I could imagine some of them, it was remarkable that many of them I could NOT have imagined. Worked my way through a tedious stack and was like "cut off not only the limb you are sitting on but also your own limb? could've happened to anyone, apparently happens every day!" but auto electrocution by ladder? myriad methods of self strangulation, acrobatic self impalement...
he is almost two seventeen and its on the back of his heal.
105:
Those are reasonably lightweight. Design has come around to internal gearing because it's so weatherproof. Could be an excellent bike if it fits you, and if you're a little big for it you can extend both handlebars and seatpost by simple parts swap. Tune is important, properly lubricated they run very well. If the gears aren't quite right for your rides the sprocket can be changed; a tooth either way makes a big difference.
I heard it for the first time 20+ years ago in wills and trusts class
If in use 30+ years ago in wills and trusts it made no impression on me. Lawyers used to try to avoid sounding barbaric, but that might have picked up cachet more recently.
I know a diamond guy. Got me and two of my friends good rocks at a good price. My sister-in-law trained as a gemologist & she passed him on to me.
I feel like I probably know a number of guys but I don't emit that "you can tell me anything, I'll be cool" signal. I would be a better writer if I did.
Gross, and jesus. People are suggesting silver and oil and other hocus-pocus.
One of the other auto theft detectives wives is a nurse in the pediatric ICU. Endless stories of this kind of shit and worse. The last one involved an idiot couple and their bigger idiot midwife not knowing what to do with a newborn with a meconium clogged airway during an at home birth. Naturally the whole "let's give it a bit and see if it fixes itself" results in a hopelessly brain damaged baby. The couple then resists taking the baby off of life support because they want to try rubbing essential oils on the baby's feet. Don't worry though, "these things happen" and overall they rate the experience with that midwife as a positive one and plan on using her again.
118: Not that heavy, but I don't have much basis for comparison. There are no stickers on the frame.
122: It does look like internal gearing. At least, there is a shifter on the handle bar but I can't see any gears. The rear hub is very big.
It looks like this bike. It doesn't have basket and does have rear rack. The seat on mine is also Brooks and very, very old. This bike is obviously so old that it seems fitting photos of it should be on Anglefire.
125: Utah really needs to start nailing some of these "midwives" to the wall.
126: then try it and see is my advice.
It's dark and I've been drinking. Also, fixing a leaking sink.
I didn't necessarily mean immediately. The hills, insofar as they are hills, will probably be there tomorrow.
Anyone know a guy who does real estate law in PA? JRoth?
Are you going to try to sell the hills before I can ride on them?
We know you can always just build new ones out of cob, so it's no big loss.
Seriously, they're good bikes. Will need adjustment both to fit you and to be sure they're in good running order. A knowledgeable friend would be best and cheapest but a bike shop is next best. Be sure to ask about fit or they'll just check it out mechanically. Similar newly-built bikes--they're fashionable now--cost many hundreds, so the shop will be money well spent.
I'm told somebody already fixed it up so far as running order goes. I'm trying to figure how old it is. Apparently, since it was made in Nottingham, it isn't the really old kind. That is, post 1960.
132: Need to void a purchase contract?
137: we already voided the contract (or so we thought), using our inspection contingency. We're now dealing with an irrational seller acting in bad faith. He hired a douchebag lawyer, who, surprise, is happy to bill a few hours and see if he can score a quick payoff. I'd like to hire someone who's extraordinarily competent and totally vicious.
I guess that asks too much of the reader.
Sorry. I don't know anybody who does that type of work.
141: thanks. I've also been in touch with JRoth.
Competence isn't going to destroy Jupiter.
Fair point. If I can hire someone sufficiently vicious -- planet-destroyingly vicious -- I guess I don't care if they're totally competent. Competent enough to destroy the target planet will do just fine, thanks.
He doesn't mention real estate, but this guy (poster here before) might have the right skills.
And if you end up resorting extralegal measures, he's definitely your guy.
My Jamaican co-worker knows a lot of guys. He also has a lot of stories about said guys fucking up/ripping him off/getting arrested/etc., with the result that he has to find new guys fairly often. I'm not sure I really trust his judgment on this.
Utah really needs to start nailing some of these "midwives" to the wall.
Women naturally know how to give birth. Why use "doctors" or "science"!?
