Re: You should.

1

Oh yes, me too. Not all shorts for men need to look like knee length board shorts. You are not all surfers! Legs can be lovely; more thigh!


Posted by: Megan | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 7:08 AM
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I don't usually wear shorts in public unless I'm visibly engaged in sport or recreation.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 7:11 AM
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99% of men people should not wear any shorts under any circumstances unless they're playing football (soccer or rugby).


Posted by: chris y | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 7:12 AM
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That is very easy to say on your chilly island. Why don't you come visit me in a few months?


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 7:14 AM
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I disagree. I like bodies, enjoy seeing most of them, and disapprove of the notion that only the fittest should wear comfortable clothes (like shorts when it is hot out).

I also think the notion in 3 is a widespread cliche, and people don't stop to evaluate whether they genuinely share it or just want to preemptively be on the shaming side.


Posted by: Megan | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 7:16 AM
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4. No, I'll be hanging out with these guys.


Posted by: chris y | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 7:17 AM
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One of the best things about this town is that, what with the high rates of poverty and pretty, pretty river, there are tons and tons of overweight people in bathing suits all summer long, and I find it very normalizing. There are svelte young things too, but bathing suits are not the reserved territory for the young and gorgeous by a country mile.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 7:18 AM
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6: Blue Man Group?


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 7:19 AM
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5. I don't feel comfortable in shorts and I didn't when I was ten years old. I always wear long sleeved shirts as well. The idea that you're better off nearly naked in hot weather is the misconception.


Posted by: chris y | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 7:20 AM
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7:
Also true of Wisconsin, summer beach or winter motel pool. I'm always pleased to see it.


Posted by: idp | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 7:21 AM
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8. Touaregs in the Sahara desert, dressed for the weather.


Posted by: chris y | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 7:22 AM
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9: If you don't feel comfortable in clothes that show your limbs, you shouldn't have to wear them. Why does that mean that nearly no one else should wear them?


Posted by: Megan | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 7:23 AM
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I'm with chris y, I don't feel comfortable at all in shorts and never wear them unless I'm lounging around the house on a hot day or working out (and even then).


Posted by: Barry Freed | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 7:23 AM
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The idea that you're better off nearly naked in hot weather is the misconception.

I file this right there with "hot peppers actually cool you off by making you sweat while you eat!" as things that are so subjectively opposite of what it actually feels like that who the fuck knows.

For example, our soccer jerseys have baggy short sleeves. I have little velcro things that wrap the sleeves up like a venetian blind and turn it into a tank top. At every single game, I make a choice about which I'd prefer. It turns out that in the winter, I find it more pleasant to keep the sleeves down - or even wear a longsleeved shirt underneath! - and in the summer, it feels better to roll them up. But I suppose I'm just at the mercy of marketing.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 7:25 AM
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I don't believe that the sentiment behind (3) is a concern for the wearer's thermal regulation. I think it is shaming, and the implicit claim is that 99% of legs are repulsive and an imposition on the viewer.

As someone who likes most bodies I see, I want to encourage people (MEN!) who wear shorts to be comfortable in something shorter than knee-length shorts.


Posted by: Megan | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 7:30 AM
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As someone who likes most bodies I see...

Insert necrophilia joke here.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 7:33 AM
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When I've been shopping for workout clothes, I've boggled that men's athletic shorts are 90% near-calf-length basketball-style things, and 10% ultra-short running shorts. I opted for the running shorts because the other ones seemed entirely silly, but I wouldn't mind another couple of inches - they would still be firmly above-the-knee.


Posted by: Nathan Williams | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 7:34 AM
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I can often keep myself from fucking the dead ones.


Posted by: Megan | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 7:35 AM
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https://www.flickr.com/photos/charleycarp/360030909/in/set-72157594480187518

Square cars have come back, why not reasonable recreation wear?


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 7:37 AM
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17: I'm irked by running shorts, because they all have an internal ball-hoister and I'd rather just have a pair of shorts to wear over regular underarmor.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 7:38 AM
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15 is correct. Although the shaming of short-wearing is generally inspired more by William F. Buckley-style moral imperatives, and views knee-length shorts and short shorts as equally horrific.


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 7:39 AM
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Weather permits, say 55 degrees and sunshine, I wear shorts and a t-shirt and sandals and never anything else. Baseball cap and sunglasses. Water bottle at hip. Two large dogs. Like April to November, with additional nice days in cold months. I wear long pants to mow the lawn, for safety, fire ant, and itching reasons.

Not short-shorts though. Those I wear to bed. Nor knee-length, those I wear around the house. Honestly I have a pair of cargo shorts with like 8 pockets I wear when I leave the house. They were black, now a mottled bleachy mess from washing sun and wear. I need a loose pocket for used dog bags, a pocket for unused, a pocket for what the dogs drink from, a pocket for the phone...


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 7:40 AM
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who the fuck knows

Most people who have lived in tropical climates for millennia? (A few hunter gatherers without weaving technology excepted.)


Posted by: chris y | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 7:41 AM
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17: I bet women's basketball shorts would be exactly what you want. Mesh, mid-thigh, not particularly cut for hips or anything.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 7:42 AM
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I love men in short shorts. One of the key ways my upbringing was not totally American was that my dad wore a Speedo. At the beach, at family swim hour at the public pool, sunbathing on the back porch, you name it, he was in a red Speedo. I internalized that as the male default swimsuit, and was sorely disappointed to realize otherwise. But the bathing suit principal extends to shorts in general. Men don't need to walk around in daisy dukes, but we need to see a decent amount of thigh.

Another of my parents' less-than-American sartorial choices was that when my brother was under 5 they dressed him almost entirely in shorts with knee socks. On formal occasions it was lederhosen. I've always found that combo a good look for young boys. If I have a son, I'd like to do the turtleneck, short shorts, and knee socks, is that a cruel idea?


Posted by: Buttercup | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 7:45 AM
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Yes, cruel.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 7:47 AM
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I don't think we can rule out the effect of that kind of clothing during childhood on making Hitler into what he became.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 7:48 AM
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Anyone who has paid $232 for a pair of shorts should instead be wearing a straitjacket, unless you can wear those with shorts in which case ok, fine, wear both.


Posted by: Mister Smearcase | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 7:49 AM
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Known to their wearers, apparently, as "nutcrackers".


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 7:50 AM
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Also on board with shorts for men.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 7:51 AM
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25.2, 29: Common theme: Militant supporters of white supremacism wear shorts.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 7:52 AM
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Not Buttercup's brother, of course.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 7:53 AM
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"Who wears short shorts? Militant supporters of white supremacism wear short shorts!" was in fact the original lyric.


Posted by: dalriata | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 7:54 AM
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34

What if I leave out the Mark Hamill page-boy haircut?


Posted by: Buttercup | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 7:54 AM
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I like the look of longish shorts on men much better when they're more tailored and less basketball-y, though I imagine that might make them less perfect for truly hot weather.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 7:56 AM
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I'm just waiting patiently until the sarong/lavalava/ie is accepted broadly as standard summer menswear. Cool, practical, versatile, and riddled with panache.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 7:57 AM
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Militant supporters of white supremacism wear shorts.

Then it's all the more important that we reclaim them for the forces of justice and goodness. Wearing pants is letting the Nazis win.


Posted by: Buttercup | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 7:57 AM
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36: Maybe if it was rebranded? It could be a bro-wrap or, with lots of pockets, a utiliwrap.


Posted by: dalriata | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 8:03 AM
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39

Wearing pants is letting the Nazis win.

Zhukov didn't wear shorts.


Posted by: Barry Freed | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 8:05 AM
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I'm fair-skinned, like my dad who had melanomas. Until a couple of years ago I wore short shorts cycling, but now I don't even wear short-sleeved shirts, let alone short pants. There are very breathable sports clothes for all weather, and I use them now. I never go out without a hat either, and often wear gloves when cycling even in the warmest weather.

I run to long-sleeved t shirts or polo shirts for casual wear, always a long-sleeved button-down shirt for work.

I've made an exception for swimming, but if I found a one piece like men wore a hundred years ago I'd welcome that.


Posted by: idp | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 8:06 AM
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41

Pockets spoil the line.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 8:06 AM
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42

Is 'ie" an article of clothing?


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 8:06 AM
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a one piece like men wore a hundred years ago I'd welcome that.

You'd have to start waxing your moustache. (But if you want to protect yourself from the sun while swimming, wear a rash guard. All the cool people who get skin cancer do.)


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 8:08 AM
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42: It's Samoan for sarong. Pronounced ee-ay.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 8:08 AM
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You should go put that on Wikipedia.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 8:09 AM
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But if you want to protect yourself from the sun while swimming, wear a rash guard.

I used to mock those, but the realization that basically all my older relatives have had parts of their skin cut off for prevention reasons and that they dry so, so much faster than a t-shirt have me sold.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 8:11 AM
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But if you want to protect yourself from the sun while swimming, wear a rash guard

That's a very good idea, and since I'm basically Land's End from head to foot, easily available.


Posted by: idp | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 8:14 AM
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bob your description of your "go to" sartorial choices made me think a utility kilt might be an improvement. And that was a thought I never anticipated having.

Our kid had a decent pair of "baby gap" shorts with no discernible branding, tidy, tailored cut and nice color, that we got second hand when he was about three. He wore them a lot each summer (no knee socks) for at least 3-4 years, getting (relatively) shorter and shorter, as he doesn't seem to believe in getting bigger around. Until one day he finally focused on the label, saw "baby" and never touched them again.

Baggy shorts are an abomination, the exception being slouchy ones worn by actual and very fit surfers. The rest of you benefit from a bit of tidiness.


Posted by: dairy queen | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 8:26 AM
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49

I love it when women ogle men. It lets everyone be a bit more relaxed and honest.


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 8:29 AM
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I'm just waiting patiently until the sarong/lavalava/ie is accepted broadly as standard summer menswear.

I am still surprised that, in centuries of imperialism, we never came up with tropical-weight kilts. Something light and breathable in a cashmere blend, I'm thinking.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 8:29 AM
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50: Once again, I blame the Darien Scheme.


Posted by: dalriata | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 8:31 AM
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Instead we had this sort of thing. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:The_British_Army_in_North_Africa_1942_E19096.jpg


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 8:31 AM
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I resisted knee-length shorts the whole time they were the thing, so my mid-length shorts are fashionable again! If only they weren't falling apart.

I don't terribly object to other people wearing any length they like, but I have to admit I'm fairly repulsed by speedos, especially when worn by someone who isn't a competitive swimmer and actually competing at the time.


Posted by: DaveLMA | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 8:31 AM
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Cashmere would be terrible -- one of its main virtues is that it's warm even at the lightest weights. You'd want to go for cotton or linen.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 8:32 AM
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Don't they wear lots of wool in the Middle East?


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 8:34 AM
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56

The Samoan police marching band.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 8:35 AM
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55: True, so maybe I'm wrong about the cashmere. I think out wearing cashmere on a hot day, though, and my skin crawls.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 8:39 AM
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Is 'ie" an article of clothing?

Only in kanji, and not in a way you would understand.

To the park! goldarn spoiled dogs.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 8:39 AM
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52: I used to wear those. Very breathable because the legs are so wide. Good for hot weather.


Posted by: togolosh | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 8:39 AM
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Related to 56, Admiral Sir John Green, KCMG, CB, the only man in history ever to command a dreadnought battleship in a fleet engagement while not wearing any trousers.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 8:42 AM
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57: I'm the same. Personally I never wear wool in the heat is if I can help it and don't even own a cashmere. But, I think those robe things are wool, or at least were wool back before air conditioning.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 8:43 AM
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I mostly wear knee length shorts, but I have a few pairs of slightly tailored, 1950s-looking slim shorts that finish a couple of inches above the knee. They do look much more elegant than the cargo types.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 8:44 AM
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Well, actually a battlecruiser. Sorry.
Also, I should say "while wearing a grass skirt". He may have had trousers on as well.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 8:44 AM
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Megan gets it right.

I wonder how our clothing standards will change when Google Glass gives you X-Ray vision.


Posted by: dz | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 8:46 AM
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Who wears short shorts? The French Foreign Legion wears short shorts


Posted by: Barry Freed | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 8:46 AM
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re: 50

I was at Kew a couple of weekends ago, and a guy walked past wearing one. It was plain beige linen or cotton [as far as I could tell], and had a belt holding it up. It looked exactly like a desert kilt. The guy was middle aged [60s, maybe], but fit in that 'hill walker' sort of way.

Googling, maybe this:

http://www.utilikilts.com/shop/survival.html


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 8:50 AM
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56. Why are they playing cricket with a baseball bat? No good will come of it.


Posted by: chris y | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 8:52 AM
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60: Admiral Green also had a reputation for accidentally shooting his friends: http://dreadnoughtproject.org/tfs/index.php/John_Frederick_Ernest_Green


Posted by: Alex | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 8:53 AM
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67: They're not playing cricket, they're playing kirikiti. Similar, but slightly different rules and equipment, and a much better chance of erupting into a village-wide brawl aided substantially by the equipment.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 8:55 AM
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(and it's not a baseball bat. A kirikiti bat is triangular in cross-section, or maybe two flat sides and one curved side? I can't quite remember. But not round.)


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 8:58 AM
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68 Mon frère!


Posted by: Opinionated Dick Cheney | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 9:00 AM
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I have strong opinions about which shorts are good-looking and which are not, but they don't necessarily hinge unilaterally

All my shorts are hinged bilaterally.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 9:02 AM
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62: yes, those are going to flatter nearly everyone better than longer ones.

Mark Morris us doing his best on the sarong front, but doesn't seem to be much of a style trendsetter.

Re mens' wear, child has been informed he needs to start wearing a dance belt: http://www.dance.net/topic/3887430/1/Guys-Only-PG-13/Everything-you-need-to-know-about-Dance-Belts.html

Torn between wishing I'd been a fly on the wall for that conversation and a more laudable relief that I wasn't as being a better preserver of everyone's dignity.

Also, why all the synthetic textiles for sweaty activities? Stench does *not* wash out.


Posted by: dairy queen | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 9:05 AM
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Also, why all the synthetic textiles for sweaty activities?

Because cotton sucks and wool is expensive?


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 9:09 AM
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re: 73.last

For savate kit, I buy a special 'sports wash' that one of our supermarkets does. I presume there's a similar product in the US? I presume it has all the possible 'bio' and stench removing nasty chemicals in it. It does seem to work.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 9:11 AM
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Back to the appropriate length of men's shorts, does anyone really care? Shorter shorts look a little weird now because men have been in giant baggy shorts for decades now. If they come back into fashion, they'll look perfectly normal to everyone in a month or two. They'll be appealing on attractive men, and perfectly harmless on everyone else, just like clothes generally.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 9:12 AM
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Mostly, I just want the government to issue uniforms. Padded Mao jackets in the winter, and something breezy in the summer.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 9:13 AM
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76.last: That's what we want you to think. Harmless.


Posted by: Opinionated Isadora Duncan's Scarf | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 9:15 AM
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75: thanks, that is definitely worth checking out.

Am not going to be baited by LB, swear I am not, breathing deeply...


Posted by: dairy queen | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 9:16 AM
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Heh. Which bit -- not minding short shorts, or longing for uniforms?


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 9:17 AM
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77. great idea.


Posted by: lw | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 9:21 AM
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82

Uniforms.


Posted by: dairy queen | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 9:22 AM
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83

Wearing uniforms does not necessarily mean an end to worrying about your clothes. Take it from someone who's spent way too much time doing this for example: http://www.arrse.co.uk/wiki/Bulling_boots


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 9:24 AM
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I'm thinking of a uniform where the shoes don't have a shiny finish.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 9:27 AM
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Before he retired, brother had an ironing board set up at his house permanently rigged with one of those ultra powerful illuminated magnifying glasses, for ironing his dress uniforms. But he's a fairly tightly wound individual.


Posted by: dairy queen | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 9:28 AM
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re: 81

Heh.

For women:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBWXpDd6nB4&t=0m46s

[Video, but, you know, awesome ...]


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 9:29 AM
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Also recall a range of starches were on tap. Wouldn't want to use the wrong weight of starch for a particular job!


Posted by: dairy queen | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 9:30 AM
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Haven't shorter shorts been back for a while now? I'm generally with 3 unless you're at the beach, but ISTM that the disgusting cargo short look has been reserved for five year old boys and bloatee neckbeard types for maybe 2-3 years now.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 9:31 AM
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OR:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBWXpDd6nB4&t=2m38s

[for the more familiar awesome]


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 9:31 AM
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Big floppy shorts are an example of clothes chosen, not because you want to wear them or because fashion dictates it, but as a flag saying that you're afraid of embarrassment. Planning to fail, basically.


Posted by: Alex | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 9:40 AM
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They'll be appealing on attractive men, and perfectly harmless on everyone else, just like clothes generally.

Eh... actually "clothes generally" are not harmless but positively beneficial on everyone else, even more so than on attractive [people].


Posted by: marcel | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 9:41 AM
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83: The ARRSePedia is a fine thing. Here's their gloss on Erwin Rommel: http://www.arrse.co.uk/wiki/Rommel


Posted by: Alex | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 9:53 AM
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I need a loose pocket for used dog bags,

Are you happy to see me, or is that... never mind.


Posted by: Other Dog Walker | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 10:03 AM
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Lindsay Graham, and now this. The Gays, you have a lot to answer for.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 10:05 AM
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75, 79: Either of these detergents is probably what you want. Also worth checking out the answers to this question.


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 10:27 AM
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I've been washing my tech shirts in the wash with the same detergent I use for everything else. I haven't noticed any problem.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 10:38 AM
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95: thanks, some helpful looking ideas.


Posted by: dairy queen | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 10:41 AM
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I don't wear shorts because I got shamed out of it by my mother in my late teens, the year I didn't shave my legs. I'm starting to worry that I'll send the girls a negative message if I don't wear them, though I do wear skirts. And I mean, it is a negative message that I think my thighs are so weird that I can never find shorts that fit properly, but also my thighs are so weird I can never find shorts that fit properly and possibly don't know how to. I don't know. I did try a few pairs on when buying Easter clothes, but none seemed right.


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 12:21 PM
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I guess I'm in favor of shorts if the entire world reverts to a more Magnum P.I. like mode.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 12:31 PM
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100

Can you even buy shirts like that anymore?


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 12:33 PM
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It's the $64 question, and the answer is yes.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 12:38 PM
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102

It has Magnum's picture on it, which isn't quite the same.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 12:41 PM
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I admit it is somewhat confusing as to whether or not that shirt has a photo of Magnum sewn into the front left hand shirttail.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 12:43 PM
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104

Maybe I'll ask.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 12:44 PM
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Asking may not clarify much. The following English words were posted on the designer's website:

As always, the key uniqueness of Re/n Spoon/r comes from their exclusive print designs. Inspired by tropical & casual lifestyle, the designs are conceived almost daily, with an eye towards authenticity and fun.


Posted by: lw | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 12:53 PM
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"and fun" means there's a photo of Magnum sewn into the front left-hand shirttail. What else would it mean?


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 12:55 PM
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99: It's funny, there's a weightlifting blog I read for a while that's been on the short-shorts kick for a few years now. And yes, Magnum is one of their guiding lights.


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 12:55 PM
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Oh, fuck you. I read that blog for a while, too, but I was pretty sure I was the only person on earth reading it. I sent the picture on this page to a friend, just because it's so great. My wife looked at it and said, "They look unhealthy."

I think at least one of them did have a massive heart attack at a relatively young age.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 1:13 PM
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It's currently in vogue to have a spindly, thin appearance which is typically accompanied by a low body fat percentage. Regardless of why this has come to be, those who have such an appearance are not very useful. Imagine asking someone of this "stature" to help you move your car out of the road, haul some lumber, or even fend off a potential zombie attack. It simply wouldn't be feasible.

Seems self-aware and facetious on at least one level.


Posted by: idp | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 1:24 PM
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I guess it's just the world I physically and virtually hang out in, but I feel like the anti-bodybuilding, anti-super-thin-hipster, pro functional strength thing is so common as to be the new normal. I don't think I know a single body builder and even the cardio addict people seem into functional strength.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 1:28 PM
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I guess I should also add that my gym owner/insane person/fitness guru is well known for doing fitness competitions wearing ultra short jean shorts and no shirt, so there's that.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 1:33 PM
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110. The old normal raises some questions about the worth of California's ideals.


Posted by: lw | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 1:33 PM
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pwnd by 111, drat.


Posted by: lw | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 1:34 PM
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OK, but bodybuilders were always rare and hang out by themselves because they have bizarre needs. You're only ever gonna see bodybuilders in flocks in their own ecosystem.

70's Big seems pretty damn big. I can only think of a couple guys that big at the gym. I object to one for being a chatty motherfucker. The other one has never really drawn my notice.


Posted by: Megan | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 1:34 PM
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Being into functional strength isn't quite the same as not caring about your gut because you can haul lumber.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 1:38 PM
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Being into functional strength isn't quite the same as not caring about your gut because you can haul lumber.

True, but in the alternate retro future not all can be Magnum. Some must be T.C.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 1:41 PM
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So racist.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 1:42 PM
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112: Halter tops are coming back, one hopes.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 1:44 PM
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98: start with cut-offs. Find a pair of pants at goodwill, with a little mor bagginess then you'd wear for pants. Then you control the length when you cut them off, and they're so casual that you only wear them for very, very round-the-house or casual outings anyway.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 1:45 PM
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How about some Friday afternoon sartorial crowd sourcing? HG's Los Angeles meet up shoe search seemed very productive.

I just bought this dress: http://www.lesleyevers.com/shop/jo-in-navy-white-chevron-lace

Looking for navy slingbacks, mid heel and preferably peep toe. Not having much luck yet. Suggestions?


Posted by: dairy queen | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 1:53 PM
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As long as you got the matching dog, I think about any shoes would work.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 1:54 PM
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Moby, I'd have thought you'd focus on the beverage container!


Posted by: dairy queen | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 1:59 PM
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I guess it's just the world I physically and virtually hang out in, but I feel like the anti-bodybuilding, anti-super-thin-hipster, pro functional strength thing is so common as to be the new normal

I associate that with Mark Sisson, a former long-distance runner now very into functional strength and paleo diet. He's at least a representative figure.


Posted by: idp | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 2:04 PM
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I'd have thought you'd focus on the beverage container!

We got that very one as a wedding gift thirty years ago.


Posted by: idp | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 2:06 PM
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I could possibly accessorize with the beverage container (not very practical but aesthetics are super important) however dog off the table as better half adamantly opposed to pets of any kind.


Posted by: dairy queen | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 2:08 PM
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I'm still under considerable pressure to get a Chihuahua.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 2:13 PM
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Little known body building pioneer .


Posted by: PGD |
Link to this comment | 05-16-14 2:16 PM
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Little known body building pioneer .


Posted by: PGD | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 2:17 PM
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11 vs 14 (and then 55 vs 57): It really is the humidity, peeps. Hot, sunny, dry? Sweat will evaporate through your clothes, so more cover is worth it, especially if wicking. Hot, sunny, humid? Ain't no boundary layer thin enough.

Also, in a biometeorology class, we once worked out why swathes of black wool in Arabia Deserta can make sense; enough black-body radiation, IIRC. It was complicated. My oil grampa, who had a permanent tan-line across the middle of his forehead that has welded itself into my sense of masculinity, reported that the Bedouin practice of tiny cups of very hot tea or coffee did work to induce a cooling sweat. Don't remember if he said anything about hot pepper.

His wife was a bit swoony for Montgomery and that photo above does show why. Funny posture, still attractive.

Tomorrow is the first summer street fair in Seattle and I hope to leer unobtrusively at the backs of the knees of many men in utilikilts.



Posted by: clew | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 2:18 PM
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dairy queen, I like the chevron dress but have no idea where to buy shoes. I have a shopping quandary of my own; I'd like a Fifties-style sweater with a hip yoke but not baggy at the top, and don't know if it has a modern name. Something like this. Maybe the rockabillies...


Posted by: clew | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 2:25 PM
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The website Already Pretty (about halfway down the front page) has some apparently comfortable sling back sandals. They might be a little grandma-ish.

http://www.alreadypretty.com/


Posted by: hydrobatidae | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 2:32 PM
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clew, I love that look although I don't tend to make sweaters with that shape myself. I'll think about where there might be some.


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 2:50 PM
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An actual fitted sweater can be tough to find.

Could not locate sandals link on that looooong page, think have insufficient attention span!


Posted by: dairy queen | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 2:53 PM
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Because cotton sucks and wool is expensive?

Linen is cheaper than wool!


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 3:10 PM
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Don't they wear lots of wool in the Middle East?

People used to wear lots of wool all over, no? Cotton wasn't always the default fabric. Wool can be thin.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 3:12 PM
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I cannot imagine working out in linen.


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 3:13 PM
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I can hardly imagine working out, but I've hiked in linen shirts + pants and biked in linen shirts. (I can't imagine a bike ride of any length in linen pants or shorts, admittedly.)


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 3:18 PM
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I think the only reason I can't see working out in linen is that the only linen clothes I've ever had have been toward the formal end of my wardrobe. But there's nothing innately unathletic about the material, as far as I can tell.

Although, come to think, I've never seen linen knit fabric, so not stretchy, which is a bit of a problem for workout clothes. But other than that, nothing wrong with it.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 3:24 PM
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Didn't underwear used to be made of linen? If so, shat would seem to indicate you could wear it for a range of purposes.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 3:28 PM
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Oh most perfect typo ever.

European medieval peasantry would seem to definitively settle that linen can be worn for hard manual labor.


Posted by: dairy queen | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 3:31 PM
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I can't imagine a bike ride of any length in linen pants or shorts, admittedly.

Yeah, I was gonna say, there's a reason classic bike clothing is all wool and not linen. (Not that I'm actually sure what that reason is, but I feel confident there is one and it's probably a good one.)


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 3:32 PM
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Over the years I have been gradually replacing my synthetic base layers with fine merino wool. Doesn't smell. Icebreaker do some lovely stuff albeit not cheap.


Posted by: emir | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 3:32 PM
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Russian ballet masters do not accept hipster merino substitutes for the standard uniform decreed. 13 year old boys make dance kit stinky. Am hoping enzyme boosters work.


Posted by: dairy queen | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 3:35 PM
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I made a tiny-pleated linen peplos for a dance once, and it was superbly, superbly comfortable to dance in all night in a hot crush. Gloriously airy, not filmy and sticky the way silk gets. History suggests that equally fine wool would be as good, but equally fine wool now costs several hundreds of dollars a yard, I think, and would have to be pleated with perm fluid, ick.

Okay, not relevant to most people's working out, but I promise we were sweating like pigs.


Posted by: clew | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 3:38 PM
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140, 141: Linen is strong under tension, and stronger when wet, but inelastic. Gusseted or bias-cut underdrawers would work for a lot of purposes (hellooooo Darcy) but it's not elastic, so creases and rubbing on creases break it, so I don't think it would work for snug biking pants. Smock-frocks put in elasticity with a stitch called smocking, and reinforced the patches prone to wear. YOU KIND OF ASKED.


Posted by: clew | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 3:45 PM
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Traditional bike shorts wool, with chamois through the crotch. And the leather saddles were "broken in" for the pros by being ridden by someone else.


Posted by: idp | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 3:59 PM
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146.2: Did they have crotch doubles to perfect the fit?!? Perhaps someone slightly larger in the tender dimensions, so the pro would be (unflattered but) unsquashed?


Posted by: clew | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 4:17 PM
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All quite close to the same size. You slide back and forth on it anyway.

I remember reading that when, in the 70s, they first started measuring the key dimension, distance between occipitals on women, they found more variation in the first 50 women than they had ever measured in men.

Some women can ride the traditional Brooks or Sella leather saddle no prob, but many more women than men can't.


Posted by: idp | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 4:36 PM
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146: The early modern era is so much easier to explain if you assume a whole bunch of sexual fetishes were behind most things.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 4:39 PM
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145: I did sort of ask. Thanks for the answer. I didn't know that.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 4:40 PM
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I've always just washed athletic stuff together with everything else in cold water and then air dried it. The synthetic stuff dries better than wool, and is cooler - I don't see wool as a good option for doing stuff in hot temperatures, as opposed to base layers for cold weather stuff. For biking, the lycra also has the advantage of reducing chafing because of its skintightness and slickness.


Posted by: teraz kurwa my | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 6:38 PM
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Well, I'm the same way. I was just remembering the old ways. I'd no sooner ride in wool and chamois than I'd fit a set of bias ply tires to my car.


Posted by: idp | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 6:59 PM
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Can you even buy shirts like that anymore?

My closet, let me show it to you.


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 7:00 PM
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European medieval peasantry would seem to definitively settle that linen can be worn for hard manual labor.

And that both it and the people wearing it don't need to be washed much.


Posted by: teraz kurwa my | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 7:14 PM
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Sorry! Shoes are under a link called midnight madness or something. I will check properly tomorrow on a real computer.


Posted by: hydrobatidae | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 7:42 PM
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Can you even buy shirts like that anymore?

I have a friend who wears Hawaiian shirts. A lot. Usually unbuttoned, with a t-shirt underneath. He also often complains about his dating woes, and a mutual friend recently tried to get him to make a connection between the Hawaiian shirts and the dating woes. He wasn't having it and remains fully committed to his Tom Selleck aesthetic.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 8:30 PM
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Does he have the mustache too?


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 8:42 PM
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What part of "fully committed" would allow mustachelessness?


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 8:44 PM
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No 'stache.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 8:47 PM
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Magnum rarely, if ever, wore his shirts unbuttoned with a T shirt underneath.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 8:49 PM
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159: That's his problem then.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 8:50 PM
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Unbuttoned with t shirt underneath, and no mustache, is the big fat party animal look. That's a totally different, perhaps even antagonostic, look.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 8:58 PM
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You can't go half-Magnum.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 9:01 PM
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I don't recall that any of my aloha shirts ever got me laid.


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 9:32 PM
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Spike got laid in spite of his aloha shirts. Come to think of it, that's probably Magnum's shtick, too. Can't spend all your time turning down the hot-lady-sex, not when there's important pretend police work to do. Best put on a Hawaiian shirt to keep those laydeez away.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 9:36 PM
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Hawkeye Pierce work aloha shirts and that dude got laid all the time. I think you are underestimating just how sexy tropical floral patterns are.


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 9:41 PM
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166 to 164.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 9:51 PM
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Course correction: coral shoes suggested at dinner, inclined to investigate this option.


Posted by: dairy queen | Link to this comment | 05-16-14 10:05 PM
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DQ, I love the navy/coral combination. Very beachy!


Posted by: Parenthetical | Link to this comment | 05-17-14 4:06 AM
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||

Reasons to be cheerful, part 3: NMM2 Jeb Magruder.

|>


Posted by: chris y | Link to this comment | 05-17-14 4:40 AM
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Reasons to not be cheerful: An adaptation of the Jungle Book with chimpanzees and Fred Savage voicing Mowgli.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 05-17-14 7:48 AM
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What are chimps doing in India?


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 05-17-14 7:53 AM
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That's what pissed me off about the chimps. I'm not opposed to them qua chimps.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 05-17-14 8:02 AM
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Disney has never been careful with its primates. The ape voiced by Louis Prima in the old Jungle Book looked like an Orangutan.


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 05-17-14 8:05 AM
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It's live action, with Fred Savage narrating as the adult Mowgli and various live animals being voiced by people I never heard of. I don't have a good idea of what the actual wilderness of India looks like, but I'm pretty sure what the parts of California where they shot M.A.S.H. and various westerns look like and this looks like that, but with some plastic foliage for close shots.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 05-17-14 8:07 AM
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You know, the adult Mowgli appears in one story. The description is more pagan god than Fred Savage. Also, Disney couldn't maybe find someone Indian to cast?


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 05-17-14 8:13 AM
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I'm pretty sure the on-screen, young boy Mowgli is played by a Hispanic kid.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 05-17-14 8:17 AM
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The chimp is voiced by Wallace Shawn, so there's that.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 05-17-14 8:17 AM
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I suppose the precedent was set by Ricardo Montalban.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 05-17-14 8:18 AM
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IIRC, Richard Attenborough had no idea that Ben Kingsley was half-Indian when he cast him as Gandhi.


Posted by: Tom Scudder | Link to this comment | 05-17-14 8:28 AM
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I had no idea until just now.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 05-17-14 8:38 AM
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When I did a lot of hiking/backpacking, I moved from wearing shorts in warm weather to wearing long pants and found no reduction in comfort, and a reduction in sun burn and cuts and scratches on my legs. I continued to wear short sleeves and would wear shorts for specific things like running or lounging around the shore of bodies of water I might swim in.


Posted by: fake accent | Link to this comment | 05-17-14 8:44 AM
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wonder how our clothing standards will change when Google Glass gives you X-Ray vision.

Lead based fabrics.


Posted by: fake accent | Link to this comment | 05-17-14 8:56 AM
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Utility kilt just spotted on Van Ness at Hayes, heading south.

Two pair shoes obtained: woven leather, navy trimmed t straps and insanely comfortable and alas expensive green cut work sandals.

Once again at main library page desk to pick up books no one else appears to have any interest in reading ... such a strange world.


Posted by: dairy queen | Link to this comment | 05-17-14 2:25 PM
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If I arguably failed to exercise self control at the shoe shop, I completely lost it at the library and now officially have library indigestion. I think I'm going to seriously regret this on boarding the bus back him post dancewear store errand.


Posted by: dairy queen | Link to this comment | 05-17-14 3:02 PM
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Train east PACKED, already regret overindulgence in library books. Told self beforehand was only going to pick up book for child's book report but on honest reflection was lying to self all along.

Small girl wearing pink trousers and glittering ponytail bands in station with father, uncle (?) and several male siblings/cousins amusing herself by jumping from an ever increasing number of steps down to platform level. Male adults completely indifferent, I find this cheering and smile encouragingly at girl.

At dancewear store usual flock of young women in search of the perfect points shoe leavened by windblown arrival of belly dancer in full équipe; harried search for "pads" ensues. Realize somewhat alarmed at thought of what "pads" could be, but also clearly far more sanguine about "pads" than are approximately 10 & 12 year old siblings, both girls, standing next to me at till when they figure out what the dance belt they've been staring at in idle curiosity actually is. They hastily and firmly avert eyes. Was it cruel to leave tag face up? Like to think provided fodder for future pleasurable reveries, although unattractive "nude" color of belt would tend to lessen this probability, unless they are perverse.

Leave dancewear store with own firm conviction that by the time I arrive home child will have outgrown this size of footed tights as well. There is only one longer size of tights, and it seems wrong for someone who has yet to break 110 lbs on the scale to be wearing XL tights. (With dancebelt size S.)

With steely determination, decide to catch bus that stops on other side of Bdales so as to replenish summer lipstick supply, but am trapped by somnambulist sales assistant who is mesmerized by my hair and goes on and on about lip liner. Fear will miss bus if not rung up this century or so.

Path keeps on crossing with rather attractive, if mildly spotty, youth in fitted mid length shorts. Refreshing sight somewhat eroded as late afternoon gale sets in and temperature plummets. Khaki not very flattering to blue tinged flesh and Goosebumps reinforce spots.


Posted by: | Link to this comment | 05-17-14 4:13 PM
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Similar to buttercup's story way up the thread (I am the belated commenter), my father refused to wear shorts for much of his adult life because when he was young shorts were what children wore until they were deemed mature enough not to destroy their trousers. I do think it would look rather adorable on a young kid, though.


Posted by: parodie | Link to this comment | 05-18-14 3:37 AM
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||

NMM to Mary Stewart. I'd had no idea she was still alive, but I was very fond of her books.

|>


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 05-18-14 5:32 AM
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