Arrrgh. Now I've squandered my entire queue of things to post on one cranky post.
(3) What the fuck as the main industry in Jammies' aunt's town in the days when there were main industries.
I'm reading up on Wikipedia and nothing is jumping out at me. An oil refinery. A meat packing plant. A Crayola plant. (In the section describing all the things that closed in the 1980s.) Looks like meat processing is still the main industry.
Both your (1) and (2) are interesting Heebie! (Though, admittedly, not the type of thing that'll lead to cheerful comments.)
On (1), how do you think that calories plays into this? Most people obsessing about calories, that I know or have read about, aren't obsessing about getting enough calories--if you're worried about calories, you're worried about having too many. [If you're hungry, you just want food--or good, filling food--but aren't counting calories.]
Or are you using the flipside: if you're poor, you're going to have to count calories because you don't have the time for fresh salads and time at the gym?
On (2), I was surprised. I'm not around that many kids, I guess. Is this college age, strutting high school, or [hopefully not] even younger? Cherishing your hatred does seem like something's gone wrong in the pipeline, especially if it's becoming widespread.
OP3: There's a distant branch of my family there (I think? Montana, not the pretty part with all the parks and resorts?), too. Copper mining was the major industry there, not sure about now. The mining companies basically poured off both wash waste and other heavy metal waste into nearby fields and streams. The relative I've met told me about playing on the old mining structures as a child. She had survived cancer as well.
how do you think that calories plays into this?
I'm thinking of the recent articles about people who are successfully keeping themselves at a lower weight than their body's set point, and how they all describe it as cognitively monopolizing their thoughts constantly.
Is this college age, strutting high school,
I'm thinking college age and 20s. "Kids" used in the I-miss-my-own-and-resent-your-free-time-you-young-adult sense of the word.
6: Jammies' family is in Montana, but this aunt somehow wound up on her own, in this isolated rural Kansas town, which is where she raised her sons. Not that Montana probably doesn't have its own cancer centers. I've also heard that Texas City, on Galveston Bay, home of several gigantic oil refinery disasters, has one of the highest cancer rates in the country.
Also, they finished up in the front of the house and took the plastic barrier off the hallway. I don't feel like it's a very good idea for me to be breathing in all this stuff in my delicate condition, but cleaning up all that dust poses the same problems.
Mallory Ortberg is pretty great though!
My theory is that dust isn't a problem as long as you don't disturb it. Oddly my wife doesn't agree.
8: Ah, thanks for making me feel better that I wasn't totally misremembering. Hard to imagine what might have happened, but yikes. Maybe some older fertilizer or pesticide that ended up in groundwater during the age of better living through chemistry.
11: I feel that way about it's-probably-skin-cells-and-dirt dust, but less so about drywall-and-putty dust.
12: I remember my dad would never let me detassel corn for fear of the chemicals on the field. This was some inconvenience as it was the best way for a 16 year-old who couldn't lift a hay bale to make money. Then two kids got cancer.
Or, random cancer clusters can happen without any particular cause, just because that's how randomness works. If there isn't an obvious epidemiological culprit, it could just be luck of the draw. (When you bring up "a few other cancer stories", are they all the same kind? Because a cluster of one peculiar type of cancer would be likelier to mean something than one breast, one colon, and one melanoma.)
HG, ask them to wet-sand the drywall. It's a little more difficult, but there's no (or very little) dust. Drywallers hate it, but it is a reasonable request.
16: Probably should have. They already finished and left, though. And now I'll probably never be pregnant around drywall being sanded ever again.
15: Different types. One of the girls has colon cancer, same as her father, who also had some other kind of cancer, and her mother had breast cancer. Dunno what the other girl had. Aunt had pancreatic cancer. I forget who else had what.
15: Farmers have an elevated risk of certain types of cancer, including leukemia and lymphoma.
15. I wonder if they've tested for radon.
If this is the good-news thread, NMM to another Malaysian Airlines Boeing 777.
What on earth is that? I just saw a link, and assumed that Ukraine was somehow confessing to have shot down the other jet. But this is apparently a new story that just happened?
Look, Mallory has advice specially for Halford! (Or, hypothetical single-Halford.)
22: this afternoon a MAS Boeing 777 crashed near the Ukrainian-Russian border, reportedly after being shot down by an SA-11/17 surface-to-air missile.
22: Hey, accidents happen.
How different is "hate-watching" from "watching ironically"? Am I hate-watching "Cool As Ice" or "Gymkata"?
My daughter put her terminally ill cat down yesterday. Feel better now?
I think you're really relishing how much you loathe the subject when you hate-watch something, whereas if you watch it ironically, ..."Cool as Ice" is not the same as "Cool Runnings", which is what I thought when I started writing this. I mean, there's nothing to hate about Cool Runnings, but it's not very current or hip, I figured.
What was wrong with 'guilty pleasures'? There's all sorts of things I enjoy that I'm kind of embarrassed to enjoy, or that I think are meaningfully bad things overall. Calling the kind of pleasure I get from that kind of thing 'hate-reading' seems to let me off the hook: e.g., back when I read The Fountainhead and Atlas Shrugged, I was legitimately entertained by both of them, and that says something about how seriously screwy my esthetic responses are.
I don't think people really loathe Vanilla Ice when they ironically-watch Cool As Ice, to get back on track. They're entertained at what an alien species he seems to be.
I don't actually know what either "Cool as Ice" or "Gymkata" are.
Guilty pleasures is a different phenomenon altogether. I'm describing watching something like The Bachelorette, where you loathe everyone, as opposed to maybe The Amazing Race, where you pick silly people to root for and against, but don't exactly loathe everyone from deep in your soul.
I got flustered there for a second, because I love Mallory Ortberg and so 23 was hurtful (also not up to Ortberf's standards. Phew).
I'm describing watching something like The Bachelorette, where you loathe everyone, as opposed to maybe The Amazing Race, where you pick silly people to root for and against, but don't exactly loathe everyone from deep in your soul.
This is something you can really only do with a group of like-minded people. So, on the internet. Specifically, on Twitter. It never fails to surprise me how many people's entire Twitter persona is "OMG I am shocked by this horrible person doing this shocking thing, how sad and shocking" 50 times a day.
I saw Cool Runnings not too long ago. It made me uncomfortable by managing to exist in some weird uncertain quantum state between super racist and not at all racist.
It must be up to her standards in some sense, given that she's one of the co-editors and was presumably involved in the decision to publish it.
40: Isn't that a sampling error?
And now I'll probably never be pregnant around drywall being sanded ever again.
Worst country music chorus ever.
Just out of random curiosity, are all airlines still flying through Ukrainian airspace or just the one?
Guilty pleasure is reading Wonkette.
Wait, that's supposed to be a guilty pleasure now? Why can't it be an unabashed pleasure?
Just out of random curiosity, are all airlines still flying through Ukrainian airspace or just the one?
Probably none, now.
37: Ah. Yeah, I don't get that at all. Reality TV (other than task-oriented stuff -- I'll watch This Old House or some cooking show or something if I'm in the right mood) I don't get the appeal at all, whether I like the people or hate them. It's funny having blind spots like that: clearly it is a genre that more people than not do find entertaining.
And now I'll probably never be pregnant around drywall being sanded ever again.
So much for the handyman fantasy.
Most of Ukraine is fine, flying over the Donbas is sort of crazy given that the separatists have shot down several cargo and transport planes (the area controlled by the pro-Rus is only about a third or so of the Donbas, which in turn is a very small portion of the land area of Ukraine as a whole). It seems very likely that this was the separatists given that the rebels don't have transport aircraft so the Ukrainians aren't trying to shoot any down. Plus right after the flight disappeared the separatist commander boasted about shooting down a Ukrainian transport jet on his Vkontakte page. The post has since been pulled but it was screengrabbed.
I'm about to choose an online defensive driving course. Should I choose a comedy one and liveblog it or will I really, actually hate myself for doing so?
A war between Malaysia and separatist pro-Russian groups in Eastern Ukraine would be logistically interesting and hard to name ("The Malay-Donetsk War"?).
Here, this really does help. If you hit shuffle, you get a broader representation of hugs, and not just the young women who are early up in the fixed order.
I got a very nice, maternal hug from an older woman, and a funny one from Boba Fett.
49 I can't stand Reality TV. I don't know many who hate it as much as I do but (go ahead and call me Pauline Kael) I also don't know anyone who likes it or regularly watches it.
55: It really is genuinely sweet that so many people took the time to record themselves being kind for the sake of empathy and wanting to make other people feel a bit better.
52. If it was the pro-Rus, I can imagine three possible outcomes:
1. The Ukranian forces will go completely apreshit irrespective of what the separatists and their handlers do or say;
2. The separatists will attempt to deny it and the Ukranian government will let them get away with it for reasons of state;
3. The separatists will disappear and never be seen again.
Which do you think?
I sometimes like the singing shows, and America's Got Talent, and the crazy-sports type reality shows. We tend to watch those at Jammies' parents' house. The dating shows are pretty awful, except Rock of Love with Bret Michaels, which was amazing.
The "Burning Love"'parody of The Bachelor series is pretty great.
58: I think it's most likely that things will continue as before but with fewer surface to air missiles.
58 I don't think that it will change anything to a significant extent. There's no reason for the Ukrainian forces to go crazy - it's not their people who got killed, civilian or military. If it had happened two days earlier the most recent sanctions would have been a bit tougher, maybe. And maybe the next round, if any, will be as a result. Maybe the Americans step up their aid to the Ukrainian military. The separatists won't disappear unless and until Putin decides that he wants them to disappear, and at that point some of them might disappear permanently - dead martyrs are less of a problem than living heroes betrayed by the cowardly government.
The 'Anti-Terrorist Operation' (ATO) area was closed to civilian flights under 7900m back in June, I assume either as a result of the rather bloody shutdown of Donetsk airport (until then civilian passenger flights were still flying regularly there) or the first shootdown of a Ukrainian military transport plane.
Is Mallory Ortberg a real person's name? It sounds like what you'd call someone climbing the world's largest pile of table scraps.
53: You could hate-liveblog it.
Her dad is a megachurch pastor, so maybe he wanted to make sure she had some burdens to lay down.
65: Too late! I figured it didn't get enough clamoring to be worth it.
I can't stand Reality TV
I watched two seasons of Top Chef this Spring, and I enjoyed it, even though it clearly has problems. I think part of what made it work was that there was a fair amount of camaraderie, and the contestants were competing against each other but could also root for each other and appreciate when somebody else had done something good.
66 is pretty interesting. I had, of course, assumed that she was Jewish.
Some reality tv is awesome. Deadliest Catch, Swamp People, Storm Chasers, Hell's Kitchen, Master Chef, etc.
I'm interested in this trend of reality shows adding "naked" to their gimmicks. Naked dating, naked survivor. I'd like to see naked stormchasers. Or naked hillbilly handfishing.
66: I see Mr. Ortberg wrote a book, If You Want to Walk on Water, You've Got to Get Out of the Boat
That title might win a contest for true, and yet not helpful, advice.
naked hillbilly handfishing
No. Just no.
73: Maybe we'll finally get that striptease news show that they had in Russia years ago.
Naked hillbilly no-hands fish.
"Why do all these lake trout keep sucking my cock?"
Heh. Except it's supposed to be catfish.
I would probably watch the Amazon candiru special.
79 My sympathies and thoughts are with you for your unfortunate blow job experience. I fully understand why you may have decided it's not for you, but I assure you, that's not how it's supposed to work.
I see Mr. Ortberg wrote a book, If You Want to Walk on Water, You've Got to Get Out of the Boat
This adds some depth to his daughter's commentary on the White Ship disaster of 1120.
It made me uncomfortable by managing to exist in some weird uncertain quantum state between super racist and not at all racist.
I think that's known as the unklanny valley.
ORTBERG, OORT CLOUD, WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE?
The only thing that could improve 86 would be if it were posted by DRUNK [NON-AVIAN] DINOSAUR.
Boy, this drivers safety course is pretty damn boring. There are timers on each page, so that the total will add up to 6 hours.
How does one signal one is going seriously off topic? You have some sort of way of doing that ... Please insert here ...
Am I being overly sensitive or is it truly appalling that the NYT is publishing descriptions of bodies at the civilian crash site in Ukraine sufficiently detailed that loved ones can be identified? Specifically, how is it legitimately newsworthy to publish something like "A young boy, who looked to be around 10 years old, lay on his side in a red T-shirt reading Don't Panic.'" ?
90: I got a ticket for being a bit bad.
People know and dearly cherish that little boy and the now are burdened forever with thus gratuitous description of his body. Disgusting lack of judgment.
How does one signal one is going seriously off topic? You have some sort of way of doing that ... Please insert here ...
Description of the symbol and attempts to assign credit here. I couldn't find the original story about PK using pause/play.
Putin in Plane on Same Route 40 minute difference yeah, RT, but easily checked, if you can find an honest source on the other
So apparently both sides had Buks...capability. the freedom fighters in the East probably captured theirs from the usurper illegal Kiev gov't...but only one side had motives. a) Kill Putin, b) false flag to get NATO to step in or otherwise pressure the Free East into neo-liberal slavery.
The "Rebels" are being described as making a mistake at 33,000 feet. Very expensive mistake, one that you don't waste a missle on.
95.2 makes me happy. Nice to have some good old fashioned crazy Bob.
The Fortaleza->Moscow great circle doesn't pass over Ukraine at all, unlike the Amsterdam->Kuala Lumpur great circle, so he would have presumably had to stop off somewhere or otherwise divert his flight to end up there.
That's just what they want you to think.
"pressure the Free East into neoliberal slavery" is really impressively awesome.
Today is the anniversary of the shooting of the tsar. So, I guess it's appropriately-timed wild-ass speculation.
First Analysis At Sic Semper Tyrannis
Claims and counter claims are already swirling around the internet as to the authors of this deed. Russia, the rebels, the Ukraine? All apparently own capable systems. My personal view is that neither Russia nor the rebels have anything to gain from such an action while it might be construed that the current Ukrainian government could want to encourage NATO intervention on its side as a result of this tragedy.Russia allegely has a sophisticated and multi layered air defence system with I assume very good command and control systems so there should be radar evidence as well as forensics to identify the missile and the culprit.
My personal view is that if Washington does not approach the investigation of this matter in a bipartisan cooperative manner with Russia, then we can assume that the Obama Administration contemplates bringing Ukraine under NATO protection with the associated risk of direct military confrontation with Russia. Will the tone of Whitehouse press releases tell us which course, for better or worse, the Administration has chosen?
PS:You should be able to detect a level of irony as part of my madness.
PPS:Ukraine Making It a Habit, from 2001
Of course, other countries have downed passenger liners, like the US killing innocent Iranians in 1988
Today is the anniversary of the shooting of the tsar.
Don't you know that you are a shooting tsar?
At this point in the mysterious Malaysian airplane disappearances it's really time to look carefully at Mugatu.
If only we could have a proper Marxist inspired tax code like Russia with a tax rate of 38% on the first $8K or so and then steadily declining until it hits 15% at about $20K (Median household income in Russia is about $12K, taxes are applied individually with no joint filing). Long term capital gains are tax free.
103: I laughed.
I wonder if Yurovsky in his later Cheka career known as the Tsarslayer.
107+was
Anyway, yeah, really bad year for Malaysia Airlines. I'm somewhat surprised that airliners are/were still flying over a warzone where military flights were shot down. That doesn't seem prudent. Do the airlines just assume that they fly too high to be affected?
Apparently, the plane was in airspace that was supposed to be closed to civilian aircraft.
As far as I can tell, the only "evidence" we even have that the plane was shot down is a statement from the Kievite junta.
And boy are they going to look dumb when Malaysian Airlines announces that they're not missing any airplanes.
Hate activities can be really draining. Remember to keep yourself hydrated by drinking lots of haterade.
At the EXACT MOMENT that I clicked over to comment, I heard Elaine Stritch singing "I've had heebie-geebies" in "I'm Still Here." Hang on.
Also I learned there was a Bee Gees parody group called the Hee Bee Gee Bees who released an album called "Meaningless Songs in Very High Voices." Maybe not exactly encouraging, but still cool.
Or maybe not in restricted airspace, as it says later in the same article I linked in 109.
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Since this is the "cheer me up" thread, I loved this interview. The tone is casual, friendly, and just charming.
Milwaukee Bucks' prodigy Giannis Antetokounmpo hits an all-you-can-eat buffet in Las Vegas and chats about being trash-talked by Carmelo, acing his driving test and how poverty has impacted his life.
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Huh...well, regardless, man, what a tragedy.
It's bizarre how the biggest news stories of four months ago just came together.
@116: I distinctly remember a few months ago that people were complaining about how CNN was neglecting events in the Ukraine in order to drone on and on about the missing Malaysian airplane...
Julia Ioffe deleted a tweet saying 'They found the plane!'. Tasteless? Perhaps, but still funny.
53, 67: Good choice. The one time I did Texas defensive driving (1997ish?), as far as I could figure, all of the options entailed both "comedy" and a Golden Corral or similar gross all-you-can-eat venue. I don't know which was worse, spending the better part of a Saturday watching this poor guy who was trying so hard but appeared to have no clue how unfunny he was, or hate-eating the disgusting mac and cheese etc. out of boredom and despair. I guess online wouldn't be nearly as bad but it would still be awful and I don't think in a good live blogging-fodder way. Nice to know that the combined forces of Big Buffet and the wannabe commedian lobby couldn't thwart the march of progress on this.
It was a little expensive and I didn't take it because I didn't need the credits, but I was excited when I learned that California has an online traffic school for lawyers that meets the traffic school requirements and gives you like 8 hours of CLE credit. The law of you breaking the law.
Is this comedy/defensive driving classes just a Texas thing?
Somebody's been a good driver. I think they're everywhere now, but originated here as a project of the Improv.
A plane shot down in Ukraine and a ground invasion launched by Israel. This is one of those days where checking the news makes me want to just crawl back into bed and stay there.
But Mallory Ortberg is just about the best thing since sliced... oh, I just remembered which website she writes for.
Am I being overly sensitive or is it truly appalling that the NYT is publishing descriptions of bodies at the civilian crash site in Ukraine sufficiently detailed that loved ones can be identified? Specifically, how is it legitimately newsworthy to publish something like "A young boy, who looked to be around 10 years old, lay on his side in a red T-shirt reading Don't Panic.'" ?
Urgggh. No, that's definitely awful.
122: Well, 30+ years ago I got 3 tickets in quick succession and I had to attend a defensive driving class. This was in Maryland and there no choice, no comedy, and no buffet. I remember something about the 3 C's -- caution, communication, and courtesy (?) and then in the dramatic conclusion the instructor revealed the 4th C -- maybe it was commitment.
I spent most of the session speculating about my fellow scofflaws, and working out the plot of a romantic comedy about a couple that meets at a defensive driving class.
126: One of those C's has to be concentration, right?
@127: I would think "conscious" might be even more important.
126, 127: It's googlable! And apparently timeless and universal knowledge!
4. Lecture - 3 C's Of Safe Driving
a.) Concentration
b.) Control
c.) Courtesy
It's probably in TFA, but I did California traffic school after getting caught riding a bike, in the bike lane, the wrong way on a one way street. Back in those days, we had to bring our own comedy.
Unrelatedly, the internet is telling me that the death penalty has been ruled unconstitutional in California.
122: I think most states out east you just have to suck it up when you get a ticket, can't do an optional defensive driving course to get rid of points. I was certainly surprised to learn that was a common option when I first moved to Texas. And in Kentucky, at least as of a few years back, the point-reduction optional course was state-run and humorless; the woman who taught the one I took gave the impression she would strongly frown upon any indication that we were not taking things with the utmost seriousness.
120 is great. And reminds me, Halford: does it ordinarily take forever for a Los Angeles parking ticket to make it into the online payment system? I got this ticket like a week ago and the system is still telling me "ticket number not on file". I'm beginning to worry something's amiss (handwritten tickets + website that looks like it's from 1998 seem like they might be prone to unreliability) and maybe I'd better start thinking about trying to find my checkbook and pay by mail before I'm late and the rental car company ends up surcharging the hell out of me.
130.2: Good news for Gray Davis!
Making your enemy feel "pursued, paralyzed and threatened" does not strike me as a clear military objective.
132: Now I don't remember where I read it, but somewhere I already saw an article quoting him as saying that if the plane was shot down by separatists we should attack them. John McCain: the man who never met a war he didn't want.
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It's very odd to go to a church service for the first time in your life at the age of 40. It's even odder for it to be the memorial service of someone you knew for almost 30 years as a complete atheist. At least it does seem to have been what he would have wanted.
I'm also incredibly touched that one of his former bosses, one everyone here has heard of, cut short his vacation to be there.
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And my Facebook feed already contains a few posts about how Americans who don't support Israel's invasion of Gaza need to face up to how anti-Semitic they are.
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Looks like we've got spammers in the comments of an older article:
http://www.unfogged.com/archives/comments_13124.html#1714890
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I'm impressed that one could make it till 40 without attending a church service, unless it was in a not-xtian country.
I remember my original drivers ed had material by the I'm Okay You're Okay guy, which classified drivers as Kids, Parents, or Adults, according to whether they drive recklessly, vindictively, or safely.
I'm stubborn.
I couldn't make myself recite most of the prayers/call-response stuff along with everyone else. Saying them would have felt like a blasphemy. (To a god I don't even believe in. I dunno, it just seemed like the kind of thing you shouldn't say if you know for a fact you don't believe it.)
And now that I think about it, I'm pretty sure George McLellan is American.
Oh yeah, I don't really play along with the talky part of those things. It just feels too weird.
142: I find it pretty useful when they recite the creed to be able to think, nope, uh uh, and not that either! It's a helpful checklist. I remember as a young teen dropping clauses until eventually I fell silent. Same deal with the Pledge of Allegiance, which reminds me I still have to talk to the principal about how I can't lead it at the veterans assembly because I don't say it.
143: what, they didn't cover the War of Northern Aggression in high school history where you grew up?
It also got a little awkward when people kept offering me condolences on the death of my father. Luckily I managed to turn it into a story of how much my stepfather meant to me.
133.2 -- it takes about 2 weeks to show up on the website, but fastest way to avoid penalties is to mail it in. Believe me when I say I have experience with this issue.
146: Unitarians aren't Christians. (Anymore, iirc, right? Since teaming up with universalists?) so nope.
But I would think a Christian wedding service counts, plus sleeping over at a friend's house and going with their family the next morning, or dating someone whose mom likes everyone to go on Xmas eve, or something.
151: never done any of those.
148: at this point, I'm not sure why you're sticking with the pseud if you're not going to tell us who the famous boss is.
Maybe I underestimate quite how secular the dirty bicoastal arugalites really are.
Or how stubborn George is. But I assume he wouldn't have skipped a wedding on principle.
153: because I want plausible deniability on the awkwardness about the religiosity of the memorial service.
And fine, the boss is a retired Justice. Who was very discreet (I didn't see him). But I'm still incredibly touched that it meant enough to him to come.
Hmmm, lived down the street from LDS hangout, hence many LDS friends who were very keen to drag me along to their whatever the called it (plus all the hellfire & brimstone types wouldn't play with us, cf unitarians not being xtians position), but by your lights sounds like that doesn't count as presumably LDS not xtian either.
I remember a wedding reception for daughter of one of my own father's colleagues, but we didn't go to the mass. Also concerts by my grandmother's choir, definitely methodists to a woman, but can't remember them being associated with worship per se. Perhaps so dull I can't remember?
It does seem odd, doesn't it?
Somehow LDS sounds like it would count, because it would have prayers to Jesus and all the trappings of Christian-seeming religiosity, even if they're not technically Christian.
Or maybe it's totally different. I've never been to an LDS anything.
I've been to an LDS library. And a LDS outdoor Xmas lights extravaganza.
(Have you ever looked at the word extravaganza? I mean really looked at the word extravaganza?)
1294. Lecture - 3 C's Of Safe Driving
a.) Concentration
b.) Control
c.)CourtesyConcealed Weapon
Yes I know how many comments ago that was but I still wanted to make the joke.
160.2: One vaganza should be enough for anyone.
I've only been to a couple church services, in my mid-twenties, as a tourist visiting European churches. Actually, I think only one of the times counts as attending rather than just happening to be there while a service takes place far away. Some cathedrals are enormous.
Wow, I feel like I need to turn in my atheist card or something. I've never been to an LDS, JW, 7thDA, CS or any of those types of services, nor an actual Muslim service (though have heard an imam speak at a mosque, on secular topics), but I've been to just about everything else -- Hindu, all kinds of mainline Protestant, fundy Protestant, Catholic, Jewish, and Pagan (of various stripes). I guess I should stop by a Baha'i temple, a Sikh gurdwara and a Pastafarian service sometime.
LDS basically counts as Christian, just very heterodox from the perspective of credal Christianity. Have we had this conversation here before?
I've been to a few Christian and Jewish services over the years - a couple weddings and funerals, a couple Midnight Mass thingies, a couple dragged to by a relative and a commemorative one or two. And, like fake accent, I've run into masses a bunch of times while being a tourist. All that while being raised with no religion by agnostic parents and George's experience seems a bit bizarre to me. Then again, I had a friend once express amazement at meeting people who genuinely believed in God in college 'did you know there are people who believe in God here? They actually exist!' (yes she was a born and bred Manhattanite)
164: wait, what are the criteria to get an atheist card?
Did that conversation end in consensus? I mean, I guess it could happen...
As long as you don't believe in God, the rest is negotiable.
Loosely related, there was a slow quiz on metafilter today about which ancient Christian heresy you believe in. The questions (if you could get to them) were all jokey. How hard would it be to set up a real quiz to find out what ancient heresy you believe in? Honestly.
I was in my twenties when I realized that some Jewish people actually believed in God.
I had had a Jewish roommate, a Jewish girlfriend, several Jewish friends. I had been to a bat mitzvah too.
165, 168: IIRC the closest thing to a consensus was over the idea that LDS is a Christian heresy.
Did you know that there's a heresy called 'Americanism'?
I'd say "non-Trinitarian Christian"; most members identify as Christian, but the roots of LDS are definitely about rejecting Christianity in favor of New World Awesome Revelation.
An LDS Christmas service I attended (for the concert) featured some ordinary carols that had slightly different lyrics. About the Saints, and all the Worlds of God.
That was a fun conversation. To tie the heresy conversation into the Mallory Ortberg conversation, her Dad's Silicon Valley megachurch (to which Condoleeza Rice belongs) just left the mainstream Presbyterian church. Apparently the real reason is that the PCUSA recently voted to allow openly gay priests, but Ortberg pere is downplaying this and claiming that the real reason for the departure is that the PCUSA have become universalists. Which is probably true, most mainline US protestant denominations now are (quite rightly IMO) largely filled with some forms of universalists, only 1900 years after Origen.
This is only barely OT (since things are churchy), but I wanted to thank everyone who suggested Presbyterian hymns a few weeks ago. My grandmother's memory issues basically preclude her writing thank you notes, and I hadn't received one in years and years. Last week, I got a note thanking me for the CDs, so I know she liked them so much that her caregiver helped her out with a note.
172 Which pretty much became official Church doctrine with Vatican II as I understand it. Relatedly, I'm always bemused/annoyed when I read Dreher or Douthat or others like them with their rather strong sympathies for anti-conciliar Catholic thought prattling on about religious liberty, i.e. the key issue that the ultra trads objected to in the Council. Dreher would be in fucking jail in the ideal trad society. But teh gays would be too, at least the ones who weren't either upper class or fucking members of the upper class, so that's ok.
Speaking of LDS-related trivia, Mobsters and Mormons is a... unique... movie.
Didn't Dreher decide that the Pope was an enabler of child abuse and decamp to Russian Orthodoxy?
Oh my God, a hundred people on the plane were traveling to the International AIDS Conference in Melbourne.
Wait, he converted to Orthodoxy? That's impressive kookiness. Like something out of a Moorcock novel.
When I lived in NY a defensive driving course didn't remove points but did reduce your insurance so my parents made me go take one with them. I do remember the teachers message about assuming other drivers are assholes: "What crazy, what stupid, what idiotic thing is he gonna do, that's going to cost me my life." Which is ok as far as driving defensively goes but is really most useful biking in the city.
My lapsed unitarian heart reflexively rebels at the notion LDS are somehow admissible in the xtian tent whilst unitarians are excluded, but then I remember when Angela Davis had lunch at our house after delivering the "sermon" and think you may have a point.
Wait, why would Unitarians want to be included in the xtian tent? Half of us are Jew-ish.
Boy, I sure don't understand Unitarians.
Is this about the sex course again?
Well I'm lapsed looong ago, so please don't attribute anything from me to unitarians in general. As for me, I was probably just reacting to LDS being in tent and unitarians out, but you know then I recollect the lovely elderly couple who gave me tea in delicate china cups both with numbers tattooed on their arms, being warned to give a decent berth to the older kids dropping acid in Sunday school and the rather fluid marital arrangements of the parents...suppose we none of us really fit in any tent containing both holy rollers and LDS.
I guess in the end, I'm confused, too. We wouldn't have been UU if the tent had been anywhere in sight.
Malagasy colleague of mine is en route to AIDS 2014 (thankfully not via Amsterdam, although we had a horrible couple of minutes this morning checking his itinerary).
Unbelievably news this morning. Jesus. My heart goes out to everyone who knew passengers and crew. And the joke about 'this is what it looks like in case it disappears' - so bleak.
Q: How can you tell a Unitarian holly roller?
A: He knocks on your door, but doesn't know why.
The plane thing is super depressing though. And details just make it more depressing. I know every person is an end in itself and the loss of any life is a tragedy, but the AIDS conference thing really does feel like an extra spoonful of shit. I am irrationally freaking out now about my partner flying to Shanghai from Prague via Moscow on Aeroflot in a few weeks time. I am being totally irrational and neurotic, right?
I can't take the news anymore. Gaza, Syria, Ukraine, Republicans...
I am irrationally freaking out now about my partner flying to Shanghai from Prague via Moscow on Aeroflot in a few weeks time. I am being totally irrational and neurotic, right?
I'm pretty sure that flightplan doesn't pass over any part of Ukraine, so yeah, I think it's fine.
There's no reason for it to fly over the Donbass, but wouldn't it cross over NW Ukraine?
I'd be more worried about Aeroflot that the flight plan on that route, tbh. Which means not very, these days.
Yeah I was not so thrilled about Aeroflot either, but apparently they've cleaned up their act for international flights.
Aeroflot isn't that bad on safety and never has been - they don't let unsafe airlines fly into EU airspace. The ones you want to watch out for are the Russian domestic carriers...
I got UU, just giving answers that didn't repel me too much/seem absurd on the face of it. But UCC was not an option? That's fucked up.
I got UU, largely I think by moving the importance bar to trivial for all the theological questions and critical for the social ones.
The "Find your religion" one pegs me as a secular humanist. I'm not at all sure I'm a humanist.
My very reverend sister says there's some movement that's attracting a lot of gay-friendly black churches to the UCC, which would be really awesome if it kept going.
Also, today is my last day at my stupid job. Jackasses. They are going to be so screwed, and they don't even know it.
I'm watching a baby sleep while listening to his parents fight in the next room. It feels less awkward when I remember it's research.
Who's the subject? You, the baby, or the parents?
It's hard to hear all of it, but the mom is yelling at the dad for not helping out with the baby.
I'm watching a baby sleep while listening to his parents fight in the next room. It feels less awkward when I remember it's research.
I'm reminded of the scene showing Egon Spengler's "research" in Ghostbusters II.
OT: Having been present for his New York debut at the Fillmore East in 1492, the Flip-Pater is a little sentimental about the death of Johnny Winter.
204 is very true. Ours is one. There's a little friction because a lot of them are part of The Fellowship of Affirming Ministries, which is a system with bishops, but the UCC is willing to work with that.
Oh, and what happens post-job? Wow!
Maybe I should undergo a pseud change. So many others have! I'm sort of attached to mine though.
212: LB will hurl invective at you.
I read that as Police Invective and wondered if it were a subset of Police Brutality.
I was wondering if there should be an Alan Smithee type system for comments that you want to make but also want to preemptively disavow. Not "Presidential" comments, but what if you just feel like saying something stupid while identifying yourself as a regular commenter and not a troll? I mean if you are a baddass like me you'll just sign your name and take the blame. But I'm thinking of the less courageous who may be concerned about their reputation.
what if you just feel like saying something stupid while identifying yourself as a regular commenter and not a troll?
I don't understand the distinction.
I was wondering if there should be an Alan Smithee type system for comments that you want to make but also want to preemptively disavow.
Wry Cooter.
211.1: Cool. She just went to their big conference, and I guess one of the founders is a mentor of hers.
211.2: Cry, cry, fill out online job applications, cry.
I read that as Police Invective and wondered if it were a subset of Police Brutality.
Fact: Many people totally disregard your instructions until you throw some profanity in the mix.
Actually, the only thing I could think to post under this name would probably be instantly identifiable.
That was supposed to be posted as Wry Cooter. SIGH.
you just feel like saying something stupid
Maybe I should come up with another pseud just in case I have the urge (and somehow get the ability!)
to say something smart.
221: That's certainly the case with my kids.
Not "Presidential" comments, but what if you just feel like saying something stupid while identifying yourself as a regular commenter and not a troll? I mean if you are a baddass like me you'll just sign your name and take the blame. But I'm thinking of the less courageous who may be concerned about their reputation.
Perhaps the metal singer name of one's choice, in solidarity.
Police, Adjective is a pretty good movie. Romanian.
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You read this kind of thing, and it isn't very cheering at all:
http://electronicintifada.net/content/israeli-calls-palestinian-blood-ring-fever-pitch/13578
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220: Presumably Bishop F/lun/der, whose daughter is our pastor's wife and co-pastor, etc. The bishop is amazing and got Mara, among others, dancing in the aisles the one time we heard her preach to make the point that it was white men who made Christians hate their bodies, which is maybe not the whole story but true enough for the black church.
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Evidence is adding up, it is a False Flag, MH flight shot down by Kiev, "tape" fabricated.
It's horrifying to see that ten+ years after "WMD in Iraq," American's still believe their gov't and press.
Don't be skeptical. Assume they are lying.
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Good movies this month:
Heiner Carow's Coming Out, East Germany 1989!, exactly what it sounds
Kore-eda's August Without Him, two years spent dying intimately with the first Japanese Aids victim to openly admit to contracting sexually. Rough, but warm.
Both are available on youtube in entirety.
Don't think this particular plane was a coincidence. Kiev ATC directed it over the warzone, and had apparently been planning a shoot down for at least two days.
Always:What exactly happened, and cui bono?
The problem is not getting John McCain and Republicans aboard a shooting of hot Cold War, they're easy.
The problem is getting YOU either onboard or out of the way. You and Netherlands and Denmark etc.
100 Aids researchers getting killed angers and horrifies whom? Republicans? Russian oligarchs?
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