Re: "I feel sweaty and gross, I need a shower" (didn't shower until next morning)

1

The spreadsheet seems tacky. There's probably an app already.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 07-18-14 1:28 PM
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Weak stuff. I want to see an ANOVA analysis.


Posted by: AcademicLurker | Link to this comment | 07-18-14 1:30 PM
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8:30: Yes (successfully)


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 07-18-14 1:33 PM
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2: Poisson, I think. But what's the IV?


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 07-18-14 1:35 PM
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Nice: "I'm trying to watch the movie" (fell asleep 15min later)


Posted by: dalriata | Link to this comment | 07-18-14 1:38 PM
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I absolutely love the comments on his spreadsheet inadequacy. I had the same first thoughts.

In general I prefer to shower in the morning, but having an outdoor shower on warm summer nights has led to a lot more pre-bed showers, iykwim.


Posted by: Megan | Link to this comment | 07-18-14 1:43 PM
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When they were dating, I bet he took the time to nicely format the spreadsheets he used to quantify their relationship.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 07-18-14 1:45 PM
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Wait, what?! Who goes to the gym and works up a sweat and then doesn't shower and goes to sleep in gym sweat? I am NOT a shower nazi by any means---if I'm not sweaty I can go three or four days without showering!--but isn't that just bad hygiene? Is no one else paranoid about getting a Staph infection? Isn't it *itchy*??


Posted by: Ile | Link to this comment | 07-18-14 1:54 PM
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I'm more worried about MRSA than a staph infection.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 07-18-14 1:56 PM
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My reaction was "She had sex with him three times in a month, and he's complaining?".


Posted by: Frederick North, 2nd Earl of Guilford | Link to this comment | 07-18-14 1:57 PM
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Still a bit tender from yesterday.

This makes me wonder about him more than about her.


Posted by: ydnew | Link to this comment | 07-18-14 2:00 PM
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The S in MRSA stands for Staphylococcus, i.e. Staph. (Though it's always fun to say coccus when given the chance.)


Posted by: Ile | Link to this comment | 07-18-14 2:01 PM
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11 yeah that one was pretty creepy.


Posted by: Ile | Link to this comment | 07-18-14 2:01 PM
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Maybe it was her first time?


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 07-18-14 2:02 PM
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11,13: Maybe he's just hung like a Brontosaurus.


Posted by: togolosh | Link to this comment | 07-18-14 2:04 PM
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Recording yeses and nos in the same column like that doesn't seem like it would scale well, but I suppose the yes tally isn't going to grow very quickly.


Posted by: fake accent | Link to this comment | 07-18-14 2:06 PM
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||

From my online driver safety course,

When drivers have no control over their driving environment and are stuck in traffic, the lack of control over the traffic event is frustrating and often leads to anger vented towards a nearby driver. It is the application of the old adage, "frustration leads to aggression."

Oh yes, that adage.

|?


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 07-18-14 2:07 PM
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8.last: I am a shower nazi, and yes, the itching. But no staph paranoia.


Posted by: ydnew | Link to this comment | 07-18-14 2:07 PM
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Christ, what an asshole.


Posted by: Barry Freed | Link to this comment | 07-18-14 2:10 PM
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17: Traffic leads to frustration. Frustration leads to aggression. Aggression leads to suffering.


Posted by: Opinionated Yoda, Jedi Driving Instructor | Link to this comment | 07-18-14 2:19 PM
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18: okay, so at least I'm not totally crazy. I think my staph paranoia may be due to the fact that my best friend lost a thankfully small chunk of her ass to a MRSA infection.

Overall he seems like an asshole, though I am willing to grant the reddit commentariat that since this is only her side it might be assholery exacerbated by frustration as per Heebie's linguistically inventive driver safety course.


Posted by: Ile | Link to this comment | 07-18-14 2:24 PM
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Overall he seems like an asshole, though I am willing to grant the reddit commentariat that since this is only her side it might be assholery exacerbated by frustration

Best line from the reddit thread:

You know whats funny? Ive seen so many threads about problems with the division of housework where the first suggestion is to make a spreadsheet showing how lopsided it is.


Posted by: Frederick North, 2nd Earl of Guilford | Link to this comment | 07-18-14 2:38 PM
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Does bring to mind an odd issue. My ex (from 7 years ago) has been a very dear friend of mine since, and has generally confided me in about relationship issues on and off. He's gone through about 5 serious relationships since then, and always ended them himself, and to we female friends observing, it always seemed like the ladies were not quite intellectual enough for him, but he always kept choosing his initial dates on the basis of looks. So when he found a beautiful girl who was also brilliant, with whom he shared many common interests, we were all very happy for him. After a year and a half he asked her to move in with him (an eminently practical suggestion) and then, when she hesitated, he proposed. It's been a few months since then, and they are starting to plan the wedding. However *I* know, and I think one other friend knows---they never ever have sex. She apparently thought she was asexual for a long time, and didn't date, but really likes him, and she likes to cuddle sometimes, but she has no interest in sex and doesn't enjoy it at all. She tried therapy for a while but only felt more certain that she's just not into sex and can't change. He's confided me in me briefly on and off, and most recently that this is very difficult, as I must be able to to understand (since I know that he's a very sexual guy) but he loves being with her and spending time with her and thinks he just loves her, so he's determined to make a go of it. So I've been supportive and encouraging. But reading stuff like this makes me wonder if he's martyring himself b/c he feels he needs to settle down and socially everyone is "ra-ra what a match!". Should I say something like, "you know, it's okay if it's not working for you," b/c I don't see how anyone else but the one other female friend would be in a position to even think such a think needed to be said. It seems awkward b/c I *am* an ex. Mineshaft?


Posted by: Elizabeth Percy, Duchess of Somerset | Link to this comment | 07-18-14 2:54 PM
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That does not sound like a set up for a happy marriage. I don't know either side of this first-hand, but I'm pretty sure that an unhappy marriage is way worse than the embarrassment of calling off a wedding.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 07-18-14 2:56 PM
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I have told an ex-boyfriend that sex would matter a lot to him, and not having it would make a marriage very vulnerable sometime in the next decade, when a brilliant beautiful sexual person happens to get transferred to his office.

This same friend is only now starting to believe me that a beautiful-to-him person is not the same as a sexy-to-him person and he should go by the latter.

I say warn him once, then drop it.


Posted by: Megan | Link to this comment | 07-18-14 3:00 PM
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And not showering after going to the gym is just gross.

I don't see that the guy is necessarily an asshole. She says he wrote a sarcastic note to go with it--he's just trying to communicate, yes? Ineptly, it seems, but there's nothing really mean about it. Dude wants to have sex with his wife! Not a crime!


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 07-18-14 3:00 PM
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a beautiful-to-him person is not the same as a sexy-to-him person

Nice, and correct.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 07-18-14 3:00 PM
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I also wasn't going to call the guy an asshole for documenting non-sexual responses. I mean, I'm never going to fault someone for making a spreadsheet, however rudimentary.

But this isn't a problem that is resolvable with evidence, so gathering evidence doesn't flatter him.


Posted by: Megan | Link to this comment | 07-18-14 3:04 PM
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Sending a spreadsheet to her work email seems like an assholish move to me. I'm not saying that he might not have a legitimate complaint. But, dude.


Posted by: Barry Freed | Link to this comment | 07-18-14 3:06 PM
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Once upon a time, I was in a marriage where there was a heavily lopsided balance of asking for sex vs sex happening (I was not the one doing the asking). After more than half a decade out of this relationship, in a new, healthy relationship, I _still_ feel incredibly guilty/anxious when I turn down sex. I feel the need to justify it and worry that it will immediately signal the doom of this relationship. Having a partner who is patient and respectful of the "no" (no guilt or pressure) is helping, but even then, very slowly.

tl;dr: wow, this seems awful and unproductive. nope nope nope nope.


Posted by: Ida McKinley | Link to this comment | 07-18-14 3:10 PM
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The fact that he's apparently ignoring all of her attempts to contact him seems to be what really puts him into the acting like an asshole territory.


Posted by: fake accent | Link to this comment | 07-18-14 3:17 PM
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32

23: It's a doomed marriage and you can't say anything.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 07-18-14 3:20 PM
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23 seems like a train-wreck. Sex needs are real, and he needs to have a feasible plan for getting his met, whether inside or outside the marriage, that she consents to and feels good (enough) about.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 07-18-14 3:21 PM
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34

But yeah, what Megan said: warn him once and then bite your tongue.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 07-18-14 3:24 PM
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I was the male non-asexual half of a marriage that was very similar to 23. Of course, it ended, as it had to, after a lot of misery. In this case I would avoid the usual recommendations to avoid interfering in someone else's relationship, because I agree that a good female friend is the only person who could give advice in this situation that might have a shot of being listened to.


Posted by: Warren G. Harding | Link to this comment | 07-18-14 3:31 PM
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36

The existence of a spreadsheet isn't a problem in and of itself.

Sending it out of the blue, the timing, and then refusing to respond is just childish passive aggressive nonsense, and shouldn't be put up with.


Posted by: | Link to this comment | 07-18-14 3:38 PM
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he needs to have a feasible plan for getting his met, whether inside or outside the marriage, that she consents to and feels good (enough) about.

Yeah, my followup question would be whether she's comfortable in an asymmetrically open marriage.


Posted by: Criminally Bulgur | Link to this comment | 07-18-14 3:40 PM
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37 Hell, he might not be comfortable with it if he thinks it through. That's just not an ideal situation in any way.


Posted by: Barry Freed | Link to this comment | 07-18-14 3:43 PM
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39

Doesn't the grossness of not showering after the gym depend on what one's doing there? It's one thing if you're lying down on the same bench that seventy guys have already dripped sweat on that day, or squatting which involves rubbing a dirty bar on your shirt. But if you go in, run on a treadmill for a while, wash your hands if you were holding anything while you ran, and leave... isn't that pretty much the same thing as going for a run outside? Ie, you can shower for smell reasons, but it's not a health issue.


Posted by: dz ["torque" after this thread] | Link to this comment | 07-18-14 3:45 PM
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23- At least if they go ahead with the marriage, and it falls apart, they won't have to worry about how it will affect the kids.


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 07-18-14 3:45 PM
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41

I don't usually shower after hockey- I get home at about midnight and if I take a shower it wakes me up and I can't go to sleep until 3am.


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 07-18-14 3:45 PM
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42

I feel the need to justify it and worry that it will immediately signal the doom of this relationship.

Years ago I had a first big fight in a relationship and felt like the relationship was over. It wasn't, but I still have and still don't know where I get this exaggerated sense of the fragility of relationships. Something minor will go wrong and at least for a minute I'll be like "is this it?" I guess it's gotten better but not entirely.


Posted by: Grover Cleveland | Link to this comment | 07-18-14 4:06 PM
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39: Running needs a shower afterwards, gym or not. The sweat dries, then I'm all salty and sticky. Even worse, if the undies don't dry, it's . . . definitely unpleasant. And itchy.

41: Eeeeew. (Not really, actually, but the boyfriend insists on showering post-hockey and getting to sleep at 2. I'm pretty immune to other people's grossness, but really sensitive about my own.)


Posted by: ydnew | Link to this comment | 07-18-14 4:10 PM
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41: you and jammies are twinsies. Except he showers at the rink before driving home because he's not the gross twin.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 07-18-14 4:13 PM
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43.1: needs a shower b/c it smells bad, or because it's an actual health risk?


Posted by: dz | Link to this comment | 07-18-14 4:16 PM
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46

If you follow the miasma theory of disease, it's one and the same.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 07-18-14 4:17 PM
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47

10 is correct. I've been keeping track out of curiosity and we're on about a 35 per year pace.


Posted by: Warren Harding | Link to this comment | 07-18-14 4:17 PM
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48

Doesn't it get the bed all smelly?


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 07-18-14 4:18 PM
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49

I think his records actually span seven weeks.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 07-18-14 4:19 PM
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48: Sex?


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 07-18-14 4:21 PM
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51

That's why we only do it at the gym.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 07-18-14 4:22 PM
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48: Yes, but most people wash their sheets more than 35 times a year anyway.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 07-18-14 4:22 PM
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Hmm. Do they? I think we wash ours 26x/year.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 07-18-14 4:23 PM
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45: No health risk, not smelly (AFAICT), just uncomfortable and itchy.


Posted by: ydnew | Link to this comment | 07-18-14 4:24 PM
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I mean, we wash our gym sheets weekly.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 07-18-14 4:24 PM
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DEODORANT IS A SCAM!

http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/how-advertisers-convinced-americans-they-smelled-bad-12552404/

If I can convince enough internet people of this, maybe that will fill the hole in my heart caused by not being able to convince my girlfriend.


Posted by: dz/torque | Link to this comment | 07-18-14 4:30 PM
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But the article doesn't even dispute that people thought they smelled bad; they just tried to mask it with other means. Deodorant is great, and because I live in fear that the makers of my favorite deodorant will go out of business, allow me to pimp them here.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 07-18-14 4:35 PM
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If our sweat smells so bad how'd they get it on in the 1800s eh?!


Posted by: dz/torque | Link to this comment | 07-18-14 4:36 PM
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59

"expense of spirit in a waste of shame"


Posted by: clew | Link to this comment | 07-18-14 4:37 PM
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I stopped washing my hair with shampoo every time I shower because of heebie-geebie's no-soap experiment. My hair is really much softer.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 07-18-14 4:38 PM
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Also, to 23, people act like there are universal rules, but there are only friendship rules. To some friends you can say, "Dude, this is going to be a disaster," and to some you have to say, "That's great. Every relationship has its own contours." But as a general rule, I'm more inclined to risk burning the bridge in the hope that what I say will be helpful.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 07-18-14 4:38 PM
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23: 33: "Train wreck" indeed! Someone needs to hit him with a baseball bat. Brain damage is probably, in the long term, better than what he's contemplating.


Posted by: biohazard | Link to this comment | 07-18-14 4:40 PM
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57: Do you buy it from them or are there local stores that carry it? (Probably the website says and I just haven't looked yet.) I just bought someone some Teen Spirit but I really don't going down the aluminum route yet. The stinky-and-sweaty route is not my favorite either, though.


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 07-18-14 4:41 PM
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Okay, looked it up. Not in my state and in a tiny little city I'd never even heard of in the next state over. I guess it's worth paying for shipping on a $6 deodorant if it does in fact discourage sweating.


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 07-18-14 4:42 PM
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Ingredients: corn starch, sustainable palm oil from non-peatlands, sodium bicarbonate, and tea tree oil.
That's not deodorant, it's a biscuit.


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 07-18-14 4:42 PM
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I get it from Amazon, which I think is the same as buying it from them, but Amazon already has my credit card info.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 07-18-14 4:44 PM
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I only use shampoo twice a week ish. My hair will always be kinda wiry though. Are we going to have the shaving cream conversation again? Shaving cream is still silly, but I think last time the only person who agreed with me was Cryptic Ned.


Posted by: Mister Smearcase | Link to this comment | 07-18-14 4:45 PM
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68

And I don't know how butch you are, thorn, but they also make a few lightly scented varieties.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 07-18-14 4:45 PM
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Is it actually just deodorant or is it also anti-perspirant? I absolutely refuse to teach with armpit rings.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 07-18-14 4:45 PM
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It's not nice to give your TA such a mean nickname.


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 07-18-14 4:48 PM
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If I break a sweat during the day I'll feel too sticky at night to get to sleep so I'll take a quick shower when I get home.

Deodorant is a scam.


Posted by: Barry Freed | Link to this comment | 07-18-14 4:55 PM
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I am doing so awful in the heat. Barely anything and I need to take a nap. Along with my digestive system, I feel like my whole body is shutting down. Easily the roughest pregnancy.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 07-18-14 5:01 PM
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If only you'd followed the advice of the woman in the OP.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 07-18-14 5:03 PM
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74

Or just don't go outside at all.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 07-18-14 5:05 PM
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75

If you had been serious about reducing sibling rivalry, you would have had one every seventeen years. They help with diapers the first year, and then they're out of the house.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 07-18-14 5:05 PM
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76

Like cicadas.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 07-18-14 5:07 PM
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68: It's not for me! but I'm definitely butch enough for gender-neutral scents or not at all. Like heebie, though, not in favor of unstinky sweat. Or unsexy spreadsheets.


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 07-18-14 5:08 PM
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I like Toms of Maine unscented Deodorant. Actually, I prefer not to use any, but on days in which I think I should, then that's my go to.

Also, people (at least Megan and Heebie) were giving what sounded like sound advice to Elizabeth Percy. Mention it once then hold tongue.

I'm wondering if that is generally useful for a friend who wants to have a kid, but I'm fairly certain it's not a good idea. On the one hand, I'm not sure me expressing this will make a difference (and who knows, possibly it could have the opposite effect of pushing her toward deciding to have a baby). Yet, I still feel like I should state how I feel. Though that would be an awkward and unpleasant conversation, and if she already is feeling that way, I'm not sure me bringing it up would help.


Posted by: Rance | Link to this comment | 07-18-14 5:19 PM
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Toms of Maine unscented Deodorant

Used. Rejected. I'm trying to guide you down the one true path, here.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 07-18-14 5:23 PM
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(Tom's also has antiperspirant too, Heebie, for prevention of arm sweat rings... though sweating is kinda natural, so would the students really look askance at some armpit sweat marks?)


Posted by: Rance | Link to this comment | 07-18-14 5:24 PM
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80: have you ever met other people, Rance?


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 07-18-14 5:25 PM
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He met me. But it was cold so I wasn't sweaty.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 07-18-14 5:28 PM
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I was about to mention Tom's of Maine as well. I felt as though they had a tea-tree oil variety, but I'm not finding it.

On 23 et al., in my experience it's quite fraught for an ex to give marriage advice (of the negative sort) to the ex. I spoke to my ex-before-last frankly about his decision to wed his now-wife. He and I were still good friends, and he granted everything I said,* but simply said that while it was true that his heart wasn't entirely in it, she'd walk if he didn't do it. Okay. He is/was a big boy. It wasn't a sexual discrepancy in that case, but an intellectual one. They're still wed -- for the duration as far as I know -- and are just leading somewhat separate intellectual lives.

* I didn't lecture in the slightest: simply said that I knew him quite well, as he knew, and this didn't seem it, and he didn't seem like he thought it was It, so I was concerned.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 07-18-14 5:31 PM
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I have met several people, but sadly didn't make it to DC, but I guess you would know that.


Posted by: Rance | Link to this comment | 07-18-14 5:32 PM
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I wouldn't say I teach unusually superficial 18-22 year olds, but enough for my dignity to demand anti-perspirant. I write on the chalkboard a lot.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 07-18-14 6:05 PM
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|| Could I just have a standing objection to all the smoke, added as a PP to each thread? Yeah, yeah, yeah, people in Washington are losing their homes and everything, but those of us losing a view, are we not injured as well? |>


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 07-18-14 6:05 PM
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Shaving cream is still silly, but I think last time the only person who agreed with me was Cryptic Ned.

I think I've spoken against shaving cream in this space - I've always gotten just as good results with hot water.


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 07-18-14 6:34 PM
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88

The guy in the OP is a piker. When my wife stopped having sex with me, I didn't make a spreadsheet. I just stopped talking to her except to give one or two word answers to direct questions. It's been like this for two or three years. We're either staying together for the kids or because we're in an endurance contest where the first person to leave is the loser. I have no idea which, but I can't ask.


Posted by: Wry Cooter | Link to this comment | 07-18-14 6:35 PM
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89

You shaving cream haters have never shaved your heads, have you.


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 07-18-14 6:41 PM
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90

If 88 is true, that's awful and I'm very sorry. But it cracked me up something fierce.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 07-18-14 6:44 PM
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91

It glosses over some detail but the broad outline is true.


Posted by: Wry Cooter | Link to this comment | 07-18-14 6:48 PM
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92

I killed a marriage and a thread and several houseplants.


Posted by: Wry Cooter | Link to this comment | 07-18-14 7:10 PM
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Of course you can't ask. Asking would be weak.


Posted by: Megan | Link to this comment | 07-18-14 7:11 PM
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89: I never, ever use shaving cream, and I've been shaving my head for more than twenty years.


Posted by: Von Wafer | Link to this comment | 07-18-14 7:13 PM
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95

Were you basically bald when you started shaving your head? Because that would make it too easy.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 07-18-14 7:15 PM
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96

More than twenty-five years, actually!


Posted by: Von Wafer | Link to this comment | 07-18-14 7:15 PM
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95: nope. I had a full head of thick, Jewboy hair. I started shaving because it was winter in Madison, WI, and I was bored as hell and didn't have the money to pay for a road trip. Plus, I had classes and practice. So shaving my head was something to do. And it was long enough ago that it certainly shook things up. Not even Michael Jordan was shaving his head back then. People thought I was a preppy skinhead. Scary!


Posted by: Von Wafer | Link to this comment | 07-18-14 7:18 PM
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Wisconsin is a fucked up place.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 07-18-14 7:20 PM
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88 is indeed hilarious and disturbing. I've gone back and forth and back and forth about how I feel about all of this. Passive-aggressive spreadsheet emails are definitely bad, but I wonder whether he'd be able to figure out more about how to get what he wanted or whatever if he used the spreadsheet better.


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 07-18-14 7:20 PM
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I agree with those who say collecting the data isn't a bad idea. The important part is the excuse column. Also I don't use shaving cream.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 07-18-14 7:26 PM
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Woo hoo, 36!


Posted by: Warren Harding | Link to this comment | 07-18-14 7:42 PM
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||
Somehow this feels almost on topic: "My 14-Hour Search for the End of TGI Friday's Endless Appetizers." In it I found a new game to play, find the "5282"* Thomas Kinkade's paintings.

*Apparently painted into many in remembrance of his wedding date of 5/2/1982. His wife and mistress are currently involved in a vicious struggle over his estate.
|>


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 07-18-14 7:47 PM
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99: The sarcasm and the passive-aggressive delivery, obviously a bad idea. Looking at the spreadsheet for some way it might possibly be productive -- eh, if there was a communication breakdown over what was actually happening? Pretty much all of the reasons are versions of "I'd rather not" (as opposed to there being some meaningful logistical obstacle or something). So, they seem to have a situation where she really doesn't want to have sex with him terribly often, and if they were having trouble admitting that those were the current facts, a less hostile version of that kind of recordkeeping might make a baseline for talking about the issue.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 07-18-14 8:09 PM
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102 is great. To the OP can't believe no one mentioned that now the world knows this guy's wife would rather watch Friends reruns than have sex with him.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 07-18-14 8:17 PM
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I mean, she's literally saying "I would honestly much rather re-watch Chandler, Phoebe and Joey jokily banter in Central Perk than have you enter me." Not the life most of us dream of.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 07-18-14 8:33 PM
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At least it wasn't a Perfect Strangers rerun.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 07-18-14 8:36 PM
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103: I have now read way more of this than my self-respect wants me to admit, and somewhere in there she seems to say that she's much fonder of sex in the morning and he only asks when she's exhausted at night. I don't remember that she says if she ever suggests the nookie in the AM.

They could be a owl/lark mismatch.


Posted by: clew | Link to this comment | 07-18-14 8:37 PM
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Didn't you tell us all that Friends was a startlingly innovative sitcom? Might not have been you. And might not have been Friends, I guess.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 07-18-14 8:38 PM
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She also seems to spend a surprising amount of time feeling sweaty and gross but not showering.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 07-18-14 8:39 PM
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No, that was definitely me. I said it's not the life most people dream of, but it is the life for this guy and his wife that NBC executives dream of.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 07-18-14 8:40 PM
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re: shaving cream. I've certainly tried shaving without cream when I haven't had any [and when I worked in a job where I couldn't come in looking scruffy]. The no-cream people are crazy, or have super-fine neck and face hair.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 07-18-14 8:49 PM
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88: I guess this is an obvious question but is it a benefit to the kids to have parents who are married but interact in a way that makes it clear to any sentient being that they can't stand each other?


Posted by: Mister Smearcase | Link to this comment | 07-18-14 8:55 PM
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She reads as if she's looking for justification for her unilateral wind-down of their sex life. No hint that she makes any offers or advances to him, at any time. The night before she leaves for a trip would've been a nice opportunity, yes? So the next morning he boils over, fires this off, and shuts down.

Emailing the spreadsheet just as she leaves on a trip is PA, but her posting it to Reddit is quite a countermove.


Posted by: Julianna Norwich | Link to this comment | 07-18-14 9:06 PM
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My skin is bad enough already and if I don't use shaving cream, it gets pretty irritated after a few shaves. I've used soap lather as a substitute but that doesn't really help with the irritation, though it makes shaving a bit easier.


Posted by: fake accent | Link to this comment | 07-18-14 9:15 PM
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I was kind of sad to learn that Friends reruns are on Nick and Nite and I guess have been for a while. It makes me feel both old and nostalgic for the days when Nick at Nite meant horses talking in black and white.


Posted by: fake accent | Link to this comment | 07-18-14 9:18 PM
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and --> at


Posted by: fake accent | Link to this comment | 07-18-14 9:19 PM
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Two of three yes nights come after a "too tired" excuse. Each yes for which we have a full history comes after precisely nine no nights. Someone at Facebook can make sense of all this.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 07-18-14 9:42 PM
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Two of three yes nights come after a "too tired" excuse.

And the third comes five days after the previous attempt.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 07-18-14 9:45 PM
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Someone at Facebook can make sense of all this.

The guy seems to be lacking the kind of big data that would support extended and varied analytical efforts.


Posted by: fake accent | Link to this comment | 07-18-14 9:47 PM
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107 is interesting. I thought the most striking thing about the whole situation was the lack of counteroffers. No "I'm sweaty, let's shower together" or "I'm tired what about tomorrow morning?" or "I'm in the middle of a Friends marathon, what about wednesday?" The fundamental way to tell the difference between someone who is interested and someone who is not is whether excuses come with counteroffers.


Posted by: Unfoggetarian: "Pause endlessly, then go in" (9) | Link to this comment | 07-18-14 10:16 PM
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If there were counteroffers, the spreadsheet wouldn't exist.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 07-18-14 10:17 PM
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Where's the teo and smearcase show? I want some entertainment while I'm bored at the airport!


Posted by: Unfoggetarian: "Pause endlessly, then go in" (9) | Link to this comment | 07-19-14 12:23 AM
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I'm here, but I don't have much to say.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 07-19-14 12:24 AM
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The thing about the teo and Smearcase show is that it's usually not very interesting, but no one notices because very few other people are up this late.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 07-19-14 12:29 AM
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I don't know where the hell Smearcase is tonight, though.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 07-19-14 12:33 AM
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Maybe I'll tackle the thread linked in the OP. that should have an hour of entertainment.


Posted by: Unfoggetarian: "Pause endlessly, then go in" (9) | Link to this comment | 07-19-14 12:36 AM
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There's just nothing new on the Internet anywhere this time of night.


Posted by: Unfoggetarian: "Pause endlessly, then go in" (9) | Link to this comment | 07-19-14 12:36 AM
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Not in English, no. I feel your pain.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 07-19-14 12:38 AM
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The middle of the night is when you steal movies -- Halford's not around to see you do it.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 07-19-14 12:51 AM
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I don't watch movies, though.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 07-19-14 12:56 AM
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The reddit thread was surprisingly pretty boring.


Posted by: Unfoggetarian: "Pause endlessly, then go in" (9) | Link to this comment | 07-19-14 1:01 AM
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Huh. Brings a new meaning to "never read the comments."


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 07-19-14 1:05 AM
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You don't watch movies? What do you do for fun? Read superhero comics?


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 07-19-14 1:23 AM
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Writing the spreadsheet is maybe a little tacky, but posting it to reddit while complaining about your husband being 'immature' is tackier still. They're both only 26 with no children. Maybe marriage counseling would save the marriage, but IMO they're better off finding other people more compatible. Separating from my husband at age 28 was one of the best decisions of my life.

I do feel like America's sex-negative culture really plays down the importance of sex in a marriage. Yes, no one should be forced to have sex with anyone, but I agree with Dan Savage that marrying someone and then cutting off sex is a type of fraud and a betrayal of the relationship on a fundamental. Things happen, libidos change, people get older, etc., but at the same time if you're not in an explicitly asexual relationship then you have the duty to take your partner's sexual needs seriously, and if you're unwilling to fulfill them yourself, then it should be a priority in the relationship to work out a mutually satisfying solution. In mainstream culture, it seems like the attitude is if one person unilaterally cuts off sex, the other partner is just supposed to suck it up.


Posted by: Buttercup | Link to this comment | 07-19-14 3:15 AM
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But on the exact issue, I agree that this is a case where being "right" doesn't matter, since relationships are rarely about being "right" or winning all the arguments. After my ex and I had been separated for several months and I met someone new, he decided he wanted to get back together. I told him that we had ample time to work things out before deciding to get divorced, and his behavior in the marriage wasn't something I was willing to tolerate. He wrote a long email detailing all the ways in which I had behaved poorly and all the ways he saw me as a terrible partner. I think his point was that the marriage was not unilaterally destroyed by him, but I was never sure how that was supposed to be evidence for us getting back together. While there was some truth in what he wrote, he couldn't realize that winning the argument that he wasn't uniquely shitty in the relationship did nothing to further his larger goal of reconciling with me, and if anything it did the opposite.


Posted by: Buttercup | Link to this comment | 07-19-14 3:25 AM
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I actually assumes that Moby's 52 was a joke. Now I'm wondering if I should go anonymous to admit that we change our sheets maybe 6 times per year. Maybe fewer.


Posted by: urple | Link to this comment | 07-19-14 3:49 AM
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88 is the sort of rare situation that sounds like it could be improved, perhaps dramatically, with couples therapy.


Posted by: urple | Link to this comment | 07-19-14 3:53 AM
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there was a communication breakdown over what was actually happening? Pretty much all of the reasons are versions of "I'd rather not"
I AGREE SHE SHOULD BE MORE CONSISTENT IN HER COMMUNICATION


Posted by: OPINIONATED BARTLEBY | Link to this comment | 07-19-14 4:04 AM
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111. I have a pretty strong beard and I haven't used shaving cream for 25 years. I recommend Simple brand soap.

And why would anybody shampoo every day, unless they have exceptionally oily hair?


Posted by: chris y | Link to this comment | 07-19-14 4:09 AM
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I wonder whether he'd be able to figure out more about how to get what he wanted or whatever if he used the spreadsheet better.

If he were serious about salvaging the marriage he would have coded something up in R.

I missed that they were only 26. Break up now. Do not pass go or collect 5 dollars.


Posted by: AcademicLurker | Link to this comment | 07-19-14 4:17 AM
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140

Yeah seriously. That's way too young for marriage to be that much work. My relationship with my ex was hard, and I bought all the bullshit about love not being easy. It turns out if it's that hard, then you're with an asshole.*

*Less flippantly, you're with someone you're not very compatible with. Fighting all the time is a bad sign.


Posted by: Buttercup | Link to this comment | 07-19-14 4:24 AM
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I missed that they were only 26. Break up now. Do not pass go or collect 5 dollars.

Admittedly, at that age this would be the best advice even if the marriage were going swimmingly.


Posted by: urple | Link to this comment | 07-19-14 4:27 AM
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They could use a different term each time and not repeat themselves for a year.


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 07-19-14 4:56 AM
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The best tidbits come from the metadata here- he thinks if they're 20 minutes early that's plenty of time. He didn't ask between 6/22 and 6/27, the longest such stretch, so he probably just told the world when his wife was on the rag (or I guess technically she did by sending it to deadspin)


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 07-19-14 5:01 AM
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101 is much funnier if you read it as 36 factorial. Which also ties it to 102.


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 07-19-14 6:02 AM
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144.2 is interesting. I always wonder whether it's something that only one of them considers a dealbreaker or if there's some kind of mutual agreement it's gross or off the table.

I also think that "not tonight; Wednesday would be better" seems like a bad approach unless the rescheduler is willing to put in the effort to be more ready Wednesday. Otherwise it'll just be the same dynamic and the already frustrated party will also be let down about how even promises don't matter, etc. But maybe they have a better relationship dynamic than I've had in similar circumstances.


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 07-19-14 6:40 AM
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I assume she didn't offer to reschedule because she actually doesn't want to have sex next Wednesday either, because their marriage is actually on the rocks.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 07-19-14 6:48 AM
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Or because his penis is covered in starfish.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 07-19-14 7:13 AM
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Or his hovercraft is full of eels.


Posted by: chris y | Link to this comment | 07-19-14 7:14 AM
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||

More from defensive driving; I like this sentence:

In the interest of self preservation, you must judge if you have enough room to pass when you approach large vehicles, hills and curves, intersections, and restricted lanes.

|>


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 07-19-14 7:15 AM
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149: That doesn't seem very likely.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 07-19-14 7:19 AM
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151.Oh, yes it is! Urban Dictionary.


Posted by: chris y | Link to this comment | 07-19-14 7:27 AM
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146, 147: Right, an offer to reschedule would only be productive if she thought she'd actually want to have sex at the offered time. Rescheduling on the basis of "Maybe I'll be able to psych myself up for it by then" just sounds worse.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 07-19-14 7:38 AM
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150. That would never have occurred to me.


Posted by: chris y | Link to this comment | 07-19-14 7:42 AM
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Buttercup has it right in 134 and 135. There's not much point in overthinking and then trying to overfix fundamental incompatibilities. Get out and move on.


Posted by: biohazard | Link to this comment | 07-19-14 7:44 AM
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Either that or have a baby.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 07-19-14 7:48 AM
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156 They fuck you up your mum and dad
They might not mean to fuck but they did


Posted by: teraz kurwa my | Link to this comment | 07-19-14 7:55 AM
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And why would anybody shampoo every day, unless they have exceptionally oily hair?

When I had long hair, I only used shampoo once or twice a week, and it looked much better. These days, though, it gets greasy much quicker [for some inexplicable reason my head sweats at night, when the rest of me does not].* So these days I wash it daily.

* as a general rule, unless I'm doing heavy exercise, it is generally only my head and face that gets sweaty, anyway, but it's particular bad at night in warm weather.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 07-19-14 7:58 AM
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Somewhere else in the post she says "I cook for him, I do his laundry, I keep our house clean and tidy."

There's the problem right there. She has a job that is presumably important enough that she has to take 10 day work trips, and she's still doing all the housework?

She also says that they usually have sex 3-5 times a week and its dropped off in the last few months because she decided she was looking fat and started going to the gym.

Basically, what these people need to do is someone needs to sacrifice work so they can have sex. These people are young, they'll figure it out. I mean, maybe the relationship is doomed, but not because they're not having sex, it's because they both kind of sound like assholes.

It did take me a few years of marriage to figure out that it's a lot harder for me to get up for having sex late at night, mornings don't really work for my dude, and that my prime sex window is 4-7 p.m. The solution is I leave work early whenever possible and finish my work after dinner if necessary.


Posted by: m. leblanc | Link to this comment | 07-19-14 8:08 AM
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||

In addition, throughout the winter, make sure you have a few other things just in case you need to clear off your windows or in case you get stuck: [...] Lock de-icer fluid (be sure to not store this in your trunk - carry it with you)

Northerners are expected to carry lock de-icer fluid in their purse or satchel. Noted.

|>


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 07-19-14 8:11 AM
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There's the problem right there.

They could have so very many problems; who knows.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 07-19-14 8:15 AM
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I mean, maybe the relationship is doomed, but not because they're not having sex, it's because they both kind of sound like assholes.

Pretty much. I mean, it sounds as if they're at a point of 'being assholes to each other', at which point you can't tell much more without knowing them -- whether the problem started with one of them, and bad behavior from the other side is purely responsive; if they really are just fundamentally jerks, or if they just bring out the bad behavior in each other because they're incompatible.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 07-19-14 8:16 AM
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Yeah, that's rough. The OP. Poor response by el duderino, for sure. But a 1 for 9 conversion ratio?! He could probably do better trawling laundromates.


Posted by: Turgid Jacobian | Link to this comment | 07-19-14 8:18 AM
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He could also be antagonistically initiating at times that were doomed to fail in order to fluff his stats.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 07-19-14 8:21 AM
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160: I've always just kept it at home and, if I get stuck away from home, walked to a gas station or something to buy some.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 07-19-14 8:22 AM
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Makes sense.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 07-19-14 8:25 AM
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Voluminous head sweat is a well known shaving cream side effect.


Posted by: conflated | Link to this comment | 07-19-14 8:26 AM
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164. Or he might be using this approach.


Posted by: chris y | Link to this comment | 07-19-14 8:42 AM
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168. Wut? Link.


Posted by: chris y | Link to this comment | 07-19-14 8:43 AM
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163.last: A singles laundromat?


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 07-19-14 8:46 AM
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OT: Bifocals fucking rule. I can see every thing clearly.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 07-19-14 8:50 AM
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171 Are they those gradual types that you can't tell they're bifocals?


Posted by: Barry Freed | Link to this comment | 07-19-14 8:58 AM
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Yes. Because vanity.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 07-19-14 9:04 AM
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171: I can see every thing clearly.

Then tell us where Casey Kassem's body is.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 07-19-14 9:04 AM
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Your basement.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 07-19-14 9:06 AM
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171: I know where you're not: http://www.co.missoula.mt.us/airquality/currentairquality/currentstatusreport.htm


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 07-19-14 9:06 AM
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Stairs are weird because I want to look down and then I'm looking at a distance with the close lenses.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 07-19-14 9:13 AM
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The thing about the teo and Smearcase show is that it's usually not very interesting

But but but...

Oh well. You're probably right.

Last night was was coming down with my quarterly cold which I'm hoping I headed off at the pass by taking zinc and drinking water all goddamn night.


Posted by: Mister Smearcase | Link to this comment | 07-19-14 9:16 AM
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Bleg: what does it mean if you get a cold every three months and how can you stop doing so?


Posted by: Mister Smearcase | Link to this comment | 07-19-14 9:17 AM
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Stop all that day-trading?


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 07-19-14 9:24 AM
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First, create a spreadsheet to track your symptoms.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 07-19-14 9:29 AM
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177 Any other weird side-effects? Would you recommend them?


Posted by: Barry Freed | Link to this comment | 07-19-14 9:44 AM
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Give me a couple days to know for sure. How they are at work and minecraft is the real test. I've only had them for two hours.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 07-19-14 9:49 AM
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159, 162: Yeah. The problem isn't just the lack of sex. It's that he thought that the best way to handle it was to document in a spreadsheet to be sent to her as she left for a business trip and then cut off all contact, and she thought the best way to handle that was to post it to reddit.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 07-19-14 9:49 AM
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At least she didn't send it directly to Gawker.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 07-19-14 9:53 AM
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But if any of you receive such a spreadsheet, the best way to handle it is to do an ATM. For your marriage.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 07-19-14 12:06 PM
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159 so gets it right:

Somewhere else in the post she says "I cook for him, I do his laundry, I keep our house clean and tidy."

There's the problem right there. She has a job that is presumably important enough that she has to take 10 day work trips, and she's still doing all the housework?

She also says that they usually have sex 3-5 times a week and its dropped off in the last few months because she decided she was looking fat and started going to the gym.

What's right about this is that she's doing all (or a lot; what's he doing?) of the work, and is overwhelmed by it, particularly if she feels that having sex is another of her chores. Man, do these two need to have more open and honest communication.

I don't agree with 159 here:

Basically, what these people need to do is someone needs to sacrifice work so they can have sex.

Mrm. What these people need to do is rearrange their household chore schedule. He can do his own laundry, maybe (you think?), and he can do more of the cooking and cleaning.

I'm a little shocked that they're only 26. I envision the woman looking forward to her marriage to this man for another 40 or 50 years and thinking: I'm going to be doing his laundry and cooking his food for the rest of my life? Is he ever going to do it himself? No?


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 07-19-14 12:34 PM
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I'm still so surprised when I hear that (some) young people maintain a rather strict division of labor regarding household work. But I've muttered about this here before: the notion that the woman does all the cooking -- including making breakfast and lunch, a mere lunch sandwich -- is just so anachronistic to me.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 07-19-14 12:38 PM
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187: I wouldn't go there as an obvious full explanation. If the chore division is unequal, that's a problem. If she doesn't want to have sex with him because she's either pissed about the unequal division of labor or worn out by her domestic workload, then fixing the chore division would fix it. But there's a possible marriage in which there's an unequal division of labor, she's not happy about it, but she's thinking "Well, at least I'm getting laid whenever I want."

Once someone in a relationship is formulating the problem to herself as "I do all the chores, and now I have to have sex with him too?" the fact that the sex is on the list of "things I have to do" rather than "things I get to do" indicates that there's some problem beyond how the work's split up.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 07-19-14 12:44 PM
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But there's a possible marriage in which there's an unequal division of labor, she's not happy about it, but she's thinking "Well, at least I'm getting laid whenever I want."

There is?


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 07-19-14 12:51 PM
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Sure? I have (for fairly short, restricted periods of time -- generally, the balance of housework has been in my favor, but over the decades there have been times when Buck has been checked out enough that I was a bit cross about it) felt that way myself here and there.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 07-19-14 12:58 PM
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That is, while I'm sure there's a possible marriage in which the woman feels that way, it seems to me that what she's thinking there is that his having sex with her is somehow payoff enough for what would otherwise be an unequal division of labor. She's thinking, in other words, that his provision of sex is equal to her daily lunch-making. He's serving her in appropriate recompense. That strikes me as gross. That she might think she needs to do his laundry and cook his food as equal trade for the sex-making.

But different strokes.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 07-19-14 12:59 PM
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192 crossed with 191. Of course I see that that sort of thing happens for periods of time in any partnership; just not as a long-term arrangement.

Except of course that it has been the long-term arrangement in many marriages, and it's no wonder the woman eventually decides that the man's contribution is insufficient.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 07-19-14 1:04 PM
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the man's contribution is insufficient

You're the first to bring up penis size.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 07-19-14 1:09 PM
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On reflection! I do apologize to same-sex couples for my heteronormativity in the above remarks! Gawd, that must be annoying.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 07-19-14 1:19 PM
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That she might think she needs to do his laundry and cook his food as equal trade for the sex-making.

That does sound kind of gross, but wasn't remotely what I was thinking. I was thinking precisely that sex isn't, ideally, a tradeoff for housework, so if one's reaction to doing too much housework is to have less sex, something's going wrong in a way that getting the housework equalized might not fix.

Getting the housework balance fixed might get at the root of the problem if the problem is "I'm doing an unfair amount of housework. I am therefore pissed at my partner. I don't want to have sex with someone I'm pissed at." Fixing the housework could fix the anger and that could fix the sex. Or if the problem were literally "I am doing so much housework that I am exhausted at any plausible time for sex," lightening the load could fix that. But assuming that fixing the housework would straighten out the sex seems to me to assume that one is an obvious tradeoff for the other.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 07-19-14 2:12 PM
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Has anyone considered the possibility that the claim that she leaked the spreadsheet to Reddit was part of a false flag operation?


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 07-19-14 2:13 PM
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I'm not smart enough to understand the joke in 197.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 07-19-14 2:23 PM
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that his provision of sex is equal to her daily lunch-making. He's serving her in appropriate recompense. That strikes me as gross.

If my wife offered to blow me in exchange for a sandwich I'd think that was a pretty good deal.


Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 07-19-14 2:32 PM
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200

You should try proposing that sort of arrangement.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 07-19-14 2:37 PM
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199: Everyone else in Burger King would probably be really uncomfortable.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 07-19-14 2:48 PM
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Possibly after spending some time developing really, really good sandwiches.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 07-19-14 2:48 PM
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I really would be uncomfortable in a Burger King if I got a really, really good sandwich.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 07-19-14 2:59 PM
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What if it came with a blowjob?


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 07-19-14 3:00 PM
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I wouldn't trust my ability to objectively evaluate the sandwich under those circumstances.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 07-19-14 3:01 PM
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203-4: I think that's how conversation that lead to this ad started.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 07-19-14 3:10 PM
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206: Wow, that's really... something.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 07-19-14 3:14 PM
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You know, I'm surprised that ad got okay'd - not because it's porny, but because guys are actually the consumers of that sandwich, and you're planting the idea to a bunch of Burger King Bros that they're munching on big penises.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 07-19-14 3:18 PM
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209

Heebie has probably never even seen a Carl's Jr. ad.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 07-19-14 3:23 PM
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I can't ever remember seeing an ad for Carl's Jr.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 07-19-14 3:33 PM
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I think we have one in town, though.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 07-19-14 3:34 PM
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Aww, the thread has moved on after I'd decided to share that Lee has turned down my advances not merely to watch a King of Queens rerun but to watch the same one she'd watched the previous evening I didn't take it too personally because I figure at that point it counts as some sort of King of Queens fetish or personality disorder or something.


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 07-19-14 3:36 PM
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Yow. Have you tried making her a sandwich?


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 07-19-14 3:45 PM
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Or getting a Kevin James mask.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 07-19-14 3:48 PM
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The rerun detail in particular is impressive.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 07-19-14 3:49 PM
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Not a Leah Remini mask?


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 07-19-14 3:49 PM
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A Patton Oswalt mask??!?


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 07-19-14 3:53 PM
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It takes two hands to handle a whopper.


Posted by: CCarp | Link to this comment | 07-19-14 3:58 PM
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I don't have much in the way of talent, but I do make a pretty good sandwich.


Posted by: CCarp | Link to this comment | 07-19-14 4:02 PM
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It was not even her favorite episode, where Carrie gets a stripper pole and is so bad at it that it makes Doug hate sex and dread having to watch her strip until he's driven to actually teach her some moves. (In reality, this was early in the relationship and I figure a certain amount of just not being in the mood is normal and that it's healthy to be able to express it. But that didn't stop me from mocking her for the choice she made at the time or since, clearly.)

I think my sandwiches are okay. Lee doesn't much like sandwiches, but I've definitely given her the best BLTs of her life, since most people don't know to make them for her minus the T and often the L.


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 07-19-14 4:07 PM
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198: mcmanus


Posted by: Turgid Jacobian | Link to this comment | 07-19-14 4:11 PM
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Bacon and mayo sandwiches are better than BLTs.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 07-19-14 4:20 PM
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Wow, I have bacon and good tomatoes. No lettuce, but lettuce is pointless and annoying. I know what's for breakfast tomorrow.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 07-19-14 4:35 PM
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220.2, 222, 223 So much low hanging fruit.


Posted by: teraz kurwa my | Link to this comment | 07-19-14 4:37 PM
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Bacon is a fruit now?


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 07-19-14 4:39 PM
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Sure, one of those long, meaty fruits that hangs low.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 07-19-14 4:41 PM
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220.2 does an impressive job of sounding more like innuendo than most actual innuendo.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 07-19-14 4:43 PM
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In reality, this was early in the relationship

Oh, phew. I thought you meant this had just happened.


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 07-19-14 4:44 PM
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197: But to be a false flag operation, it would have to be done under your enemy's name. So he leaked the the spreadsheet under her name, to make the whole internet think she was the kind of vindictive b-word who posts their husband's sex spreadsheets to the internet.


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 07-19-14 4:47 PM
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228: Nah, by now I know better than to ask unless there's truly, truly nothing on tv.


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 07-19-14 4:53 PM
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228: Me too.


Posted by: Unfoggetarian: "Pause endlessly, then go in" (9) | Link to this comment | 07-19-14 4:53 PM
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Speaking of false flag operations, if you're trying to blame the other side for shooting down an airplane and you don't have any airplanes that the other side might have been aiming at, you're going to have to clear a very high bar.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 07-19-14 5:16 PM
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No, no, they thought Putin was on the plane! I heard it on the internet.


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 07-19-14 5:17 PM
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I like how Nazi Germany faked a Polish attack on Germany before invading. Who was on the fence wondering who to blame?


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 07-19-14 5:28 PM
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You guys are writing this off too quickly. How soon we forget the artful love spreadsheets of their courtship!


Posted by: conflated | Link to this comment | 07-19-14 7:18 PM
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The Dwarf Lord and I considered making a spreadsheet of matrimonial harmony, but the risk/reward was too low in our back-of-the-envelope calculations so nobody saluted the kimono. Triple bottom line win-win.


Posted by: clew | Link to this comment | 07-20-14 12:20 AM
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I don't understand 236 at all. The risk was too low, so you didn't do it?


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 07-20-14 12:25 AM
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I'm currently lying on a bed with my friend's husband and baby. Husband is on one side watching anime on his laptop with headphones. I'm on the other side on my phone. Baby Is sleeping in the middle. We're both in our pajamas. Friend is taking a shower. Thinking about how spaces (eg beds) are varied cultural constructions and interrogating my own sense of awkwardness isn't helping to make it feel less awkward.


Posted by: Buttercup | Link to this comment | 07-20-14 5:20 AM
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Has anyone come to the conclusion that swimming is better than hockey bc you don't come home at midnight sweaty?

Less sweat. More sex. Sleep earlier.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 07-20-14 6:10 AM
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Just think about the sweet innocence of the baby, and everyone's mind will be pure as a mountain spring.

Or, alternately, let the baby sleep in another room and let the three of you fall into a pit of filth and depravity.

Either way.


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 07-20-14 6:12 AM
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depravity, hooray!


Posted by: Turgid Jacobian | Link to this comment | 07-20-14 6:16 AM
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depravity, hooray!


Posted by: Turgid Jacobian | Link to this comment | 07-20-14 6:17 AM
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Two cheers for depravity!


Posted by: knecht ruprecht | Link to this comment | 07-20-14 6:18 AM
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Everyone is ignoring me, again.


Posted by: Sense of Awkwardness | Link to this comment | 07-20-14 6:20 AM
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If your friend were on the bed with the baby and you were in the shower with her husband, that would be less awkward.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 07-20-14 6:42 AM
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That might depend on the size of the bed, and the size of the shower.


Posted by: torrey pine | Link to this comment | 07-20-14 6:46 AM
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Speaking of awkwardness, it's awkward when you go on youtube to look up a kind of dance you like, and you discover that the videos are full of people doing that dance in full Jane Austen costume get-up. I honestly had no idea it looked like that. (I had a similar shock the first time I saw a picture of the Mamas and the Papas.)


Posted by: torrey pine | Link to this comment | 07-20-14 6:58 AM
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Twerking is far older than most people think.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 07-20-14 7:17 AM
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It was called t'werking.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 07-20-14 7:41 AM
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True story: Miley Cyrus is just channeling the dwarves from the Snow White that Walt actually wanted to make.


Posted by: Turgid Jacobian | Link to this comment | 07-20-14 7:50 AM
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||

Currently, about 88% of drivers and passengers wear seat belts. Some believe safety belts and air bags do not work or are not worth the trouble. What do you think the nearly 8,000 people who were not wearing seat belts and died in motor vehicle crashes would do differently?

Touche, traffic school.

|>


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 07-20-14 8:33 AM
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What do you think the nearly 8,000 people who were not wearing seat belts and died in motor vehicle crashes would do differently?

Go ahead and have that second piece of pie?


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 07-20-14 9:01 AM
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How lazy do you have to be to not wear a seatbelt? 12% of people are morons. Lower bound, of course.


Posted by: togolosh | Link to this comment | 07-20-14 9:03 AM
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Speaking of traffic school. I just got my first speeding ticket in over 20 years. (The last time was driving home from a Devo concert at about 2 in the morning on the LIE and I was doing close to 100 but the cop only got me for about 77).


Posted by: Barry Freed | Link to this comment | 07-20-14 9:09 AM
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253: You might not be stupid, you might just be Italian

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seat_belt_use_rates_by_country


Posted by: conflated | Link to this comment | 07-20-14 9:26 AM
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||

Never leave your pet unattended in a parked car. On warm days, the temperature in your car can rise to 120° in a matter of minutes, even with the windows opened slightly. Furthermore, an animal left alone in a car is an invitation to pet thieves.

Pet thieves! Only leave your mangy pets and rodents in cars on not-warm days.

|>


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 07-20-14 9:42 AM
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If you have a seatbelt on how are you supposed to be thrown safely away from the accident?


Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 07-20-14 9:42 AM
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"If you are experiencing these indications, in the majority of situations, your driving has triggered the road rage. Recognize this aggression and evaluate your driving behavior:

Did you cut someone off?
Are your high beams on?
Are you going slower than traffic?
Did you take someone else's parking space?
Did you use your horn or inappropriate hand communication?
Did you open your door on someone else's vehicle?"


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 07-20-14 9:47 AM
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Done with traffic school!


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 07-20-14 9:59 AM
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Has someone mentioned yet that there's NMM over James Garner? Now I want to watch some episodes of the Rockford Files.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 07-20-14 10:02 AM
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"James Garner (born James Scott Bumgarner; April 7, 1928 - July 19, 2014)"

Bumgarner.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 07-20-14 10:06 AM
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258: Inappropriate hand communication is a nice way to put it.


Posted by: togolosh | Link to this comment | 07-20-14 10:07 AM
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Recognize this aggression and evaluate your driving behavior:

Record each incident in a spreadsheet!


Posted by: torrey pine | Link to this comment | 07-20-14 10:23 AM
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247: You mean like this?


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 07-20-14 11:02 AM
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263 Didn't the OP spreadsheet do just that?


Posted by: teraz kurwa my | Link to this comment | 07-20-14 11:05 AM
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264: Parody is the only escape from the Jane Austen universe.


Posted by: torrey pine | Link to this comment | 07-20-14 11:19 AM
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260 -- I've been binge watching all day in memoriam. Well not really but I've been thinking about it. Best TV character of all time.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 07-20-14 3:45 PM
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Also an actually great guy and incredibly fun to work with, according to my godfather who was in a few episodes. Garner would routinely take the whole cast and crew out drinking on his own dime, and they all seemed to know each other for years.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 07-20-14 3:52 PM
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I just watched an episode. That may be the best private eye show ever. Sample bit of dialog:

(Reporter says something indicating she expects Rockford to be distracted by a beautiful woman)

Rockford: Look, not all men subscribe to Playboy.

Reporter: You don't?

Rockford:: No, I borrow my father's when he's through with it.

The trailer is great, the annoying relationship with the father is great. Just a very appealing show.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 07-20-14 4:06 PM
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Y'ever see the first episode of Starsky & Hutch? It's weird.


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 07-20-14 4:20 PM
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Where would I find a replacement pen to fit the small Day Runner I got at a Brookstone in 1995 or so?


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 07-20-14 5:05 PM
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||

Joe Frank, or his agent, exchanged several messages on fb with me this afternoon.

|>


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 07-20-14 5:11 PM
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272: getting on the radio?


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 07-20-14 5:13 PM
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He posted something that was almost exactly a Lichtenberg aphorism and I commented "thank you GC Lichtenberg" and we messaged about that.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 07-20-14 5:24 PM
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JF: "What astonished me about the robber was that the two holes cut into his hood were exactly at the places where his eyes were."

GCL: "He marvelled at the fact that the cats had two holes cut in their fur at precisely the spot where their eyes were."

He swears it's a coincidence!


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 07-20-14 5:25 PM
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Speaking of relationships, mine is in a weird place, and we're spending the summer apart in different cites, where we're supposed to try going on dates with other people. I finally got the courage to ask someone out on a date (no response yet), and just now I realized she was born in 1990. And now I feel really old.


Posted by: Jimmy Carter | Link to this comment | 07-20-14 7:00 PM
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It's okay, Jimmy. Some chicks are into old guys.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 07-20-14 7:02 PM
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Neat. I was in college in 1990. Come to think, I was in the second college I went to in 1990.

She can probably tell you all about that crazy music the kids are listening to these days.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 07-20-14 7:04 PM
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Joe Frank, or his agent, exchanged several messages on fb with me this afternoon.

Sweet.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 07-20-14 7:08 PM
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278: Right? And I can tell her about cassette tapes and Charles in Charge.


Posted by: Jimmy Carter | Link to this comment | 07-20-14 7:08 PM
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But also I mean how old is Jimmy Carter, you know? Like, as old as his namesake? As old as teo?


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 07-20-14 7:10 PM
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I was in kindergarten in 1990, for reference.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 07-20-14 7:10 PM
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Don't forget the Cuervo Gold and the fine columbian. It's hard times befallen soul survivors.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 07-20-14 7:11 PM
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Colombian I guess.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 07-20-14 7:15 PM
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Someone born in 1990 would actually be older than 19 by now, Rob.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 07-20-14 7:15 PM
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how old is Jimmy Carter

To answer obliquely, the potential relationship would pass the half-your-age-plus-seven test.


Posted by: Jimmy Carter | Link to this comment | 07-20-14 7:17 PM
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In that case, you're not old enough to get the Hamilton, Joe Frank & Reynolds joke I've been trying to put together.


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 07-20-14 7:27 PM
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A person born in 1990 will have only know James Garner as Maverick's dad.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 07-20-14 7:35 PM
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To answer obliquely, the potential relationship would pass the half-your-age-plus-seven test.

It would for me too, which has prompted me to wonder if I would be made to feel super [there's that use of "super" again!] old by asking out someone born in 1990, or indeed if I can see myself doing so at all. Not that I have any reason to be pondering this.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 07-20-14 7:38 PM
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Nosflow is all about being cougar bait.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 07-20-14 7:48 PM
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That's not precisely what I meant.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 07-20-14 7:56 PM
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I guess I missed the announcement then. Unless this is the announcement.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 07-20-14 7:59 PM
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Of ...


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 07-20-14 8:03 PM
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A reason for you to be pondering this, I presume.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 07-20-14 8:06 PM
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I thought you were saying you have no reason to be pondering asking people out.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 07-20-14 8:10 PM
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The reason was the present discussion. I guess you mean the absence of (a different) reason for me to be pondering it? It hasn't come up, is all.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 07-20-14 8:10 PM
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There is no reason for me to be pondering how I'd feel about asking people born in 1990 out, specifically.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 07-20-14 8:12 PM
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<fishing expedition>

Of course, I also have (in a more general sense) no reason to ponder asking people out, because I am unlovable, hideous, mean, uncharming, etc.

</fishing expedition>


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 07-20-14 8:13 PM
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Futuristic, probably.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 07-20-14 8:13 PM
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Got it.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 07-20-14 8:13 PM
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274: What was the original Lichtenberg aphorism? I just enjoyed three BrainyQuote pages worth, which means I was probably reading a lot of things that Roy Lichtenstein once said.


Posted by: k-sky | Link to this comment | 07-20-14 8:13 PM
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301: see 275.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 07-20-14 8:14 PM
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299 to 297.

To 298, one, I love fish, two, I am not convinced that a state of irremediable unlovability would give you less reason to ponder asking people out, and especially the attendant issues thereof.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 07-20-14 8:15 PM
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I love fish too! I had fish for lunch AND dinner today.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 07-20-14 8:16 PM
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<hugs>


Posted by: k-sky | Link to this comment | 07-20-14 8:16 PM
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Oh right thank you. Joe Frank's Facebook page is weird. The commenters seems to be trying to have a different experience than the rest of the page. Although your example suggests that there it is not as disconnected as it appears.

Sorry I didn't close-tag the hug, it's going to go on for a while now.


Posted by: k-sky | Link to this comment | 07-20-14 8:18 PM
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k-sky is a big fan of people eating fish.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 07-20-14 8:18 PM
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One fish, two fish, love fish, glue fish.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 07-20-14 8:22 PM
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We had shrimp for dinner. Does that count?


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 07-20-14 8:24 PM
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If unfogged allowed avatars this would be mine


Posted by: k-sky | Link to this comment | 07-20-14 8:32 PM
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Fuck, even I'm cleared to date people born in 1990, which still seems weird and wrong. My littlest brother was born the year after and I was always bothered by people who thought I was his teen mom (well, whatever; I was only 11 when he was born) and I don't think I'd be great at dating a 24-year-old. I'm nowhere near perfect at quasi-parenting 20-year-olds, but presumably those are different skill sets.


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 07-20-14 8:52 PM
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I guess when I was at UCSB some of the people in my classes could have been born in 1990!


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 07-20-14 8:57 PM
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289: I was going to ask if I needed to remind you about not hitting on undergrads, but then I realized that someone born in 1990 would have graduated two years ago. As if I wasn't feeling middle-aged enough as it is.


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 07-20-14 8:59 PM
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Technically, you haven't yet told me not to hit on undergrads, so I don't think you can remind me; you only incredulously asked if I had been doing so. (If one may V the S of OBC.) Attempting to hit on undergrads would definitely make me feel skeezy.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 07-20-14 9:01 PM
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I think there were a few people in my second MA program born in 1990 (back in 2011-2012, my last year there).


Posted by: fake accent | Link to this comment | 07-20-14 9:06 PM
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Where's the teo and Smearcase show? I'm up late being bitter and now feel cheated!


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 07-20-14 9:28 PM
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Don't be bitter! Life is sweet.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 07-20-14 9:29 PM
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I just learned of the existence of a song called "Grim and Frostbitten Gay Bar". It's the last track of the new Soft Pink Truth album and I assumed it was some kind of parody, but nope, it's real.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 07-20-14 9:29 PM
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But probably life is sweet in other ways too. Hold on, lemme find a reference.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 07-20-14 9:30 PM
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Well, this wasn't quite as I remembered it.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 07-20-14 9:30 PM
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I can't wait to hear how sweet nosflow's footnoted life is! And that's not even sarcasm, I swear. I laughed aloud!


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 07-20-14 9:31 PM
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I guess I was thinking of the third stanza of "Shine, Perishing Republic":

You making haste haste on decay: not blameworthy; life is good, be it stubbornly long or suddenly
A mortal splendor: meteors are not needed less than mountains: shine, perishing republic.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 07-20-14 9:32 PM
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A Footnoted Life, volume 3 of my memoirs.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 07-20-14 9:32 PM
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SRSLY, I laughed until I cried that these cheery thoughts come not just from Robinson Jeffers but from his extra-cheery poem "The Deer Lay Down Their Bones." This is actually the most fun I've had in I don't know how long, so I'm now an avid listener(/viewer, since apparently the Teo & Smearcase Show is on metaphorical tv) of the Nosflow Show too!


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 07-20-14 9:36 PM
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I mean I knew that it wasn't a cheery poem but I thought that there was more characterization of the good parts of the wine rather than just "who drinks the wine should take the dregs". But still! Who knows what may be found in the lees and sediment! Take those dregs! Take 'em!


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 07-20-14 9:37 PM
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Thorn: if it's any consolation, I had fun visitors all weekend, and now I'm sad they left and it's back to work. Solidarity in ho-hummery.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 07-20-14 9:38 PM
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Anyway, Lee's the one out at a gay bar because our straight friends are celebrating a birthday tonight and I was chosen as the right one to relieve our straight babysitter, who works early tomorrow, because I'd been out at a splash park (which I'm informed is properly termed a spray park and I'm not sure which sounds more innocent) with the friends and all our collective children all afternoon. I'm also in Lovecraftian-horror-level emotional meltdown, but that's fine since everyone's either asleep or at a gay bar except me and the shows on my beloved blog of choice.


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 07-20-14 9:39 PM
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Here, listen to this, it is legitimately cheery and charming.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 07-20-14 9:39 PM
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No, some Robinson Jeffers is actually good for me. I'm thinking one more drink might put me at H.D. level. A poetry system like that would be so much more fun than the color alerts at airports.


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 07-20-14 9:40 PM
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I'm here! I was just eating dinner.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 07-20-14 9:46 PM
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Anyway, I would have no compunctions whatsoever about asking out someone born in 1990, beyond the compunctions I have about asking anyone out ever which prevent me from ever doing so.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 07-20-14 9:47 PM
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Indeed, as he says,

Stone-cutters fighting time with marble, you foredefeated
Challengers of oblivion
Eat cynical earnings, knowing rock splits, records fall down,
The square-limbed Roman letters
Scale in the thaws, wear in the rain. The poet as well
Builds his monument mockingly;
For man will be blotted out, the blithe earth die, the brave sun
Die blind and blacken to the heart:
Yet stones have stood for a thousand years, and pained thoughts found
The honey of peace in old poems.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 07-20-14 9:48 PM
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I'm exhausted so hopefully you can get some honeyed peace from teo. Goodnight!


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 07-20-14 9:48 PM
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I'm all about the honeyed peace ... laydeez.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 07-20-14 9:50 PM
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Really, thanks, nosflow. You had the perfect poem the first time and I could probably just keep reading it to myself all night. I need to read more poetry in general. It's one place I can still reliably find beauty and joy, though both still need to sneak up on me sometimes because I'm a philistine.


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 07-20-14 9:51 PM
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Teo's favorite poem brings all the laydeez to the yard, I'm sure.


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 07-20-14 9:52 PM
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Hey, my Dad says that poem all the time, especially if there are peas with dinner.


Posted by: Megan | Link to this comment | 07-20-14 9:55 PM
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I wouldn't say it's my favorite poem, but then I'm not much of a poetry guy.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 07-20-14 9:59 PM
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It's a classic! For reasons I may not understand, though I suspect they have to do with being a little more light-hearted than what nosflow quotes. Plus, who doesn't love tradition?

I don't know. I'm not doing really well at knowing that we'll all die and thus nothing I do will matter. I mean, I know that, but it doesn't make the things that matter to me feel more like they should matter less than other stuff. Let's not make this The Depressing Thorn Show, though.


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 07-20-14 9:59 PM
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Oh, teo, I was just casting aspersions because of the honeyed peace reference you gladly stole from nosflow. Though if I had to guess your favorite poem, I'm not sure I'd have a better guess.


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 07-20-14 10:03 PM
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I'm quite a fan of nosflow's own oeuvre, actually, but I'm not sure what that says about my taste in poetry.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 07-20-14 10:03 PM
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And this doesn't have to become the Depressing Thorn Show, but there are other channels that can carry it, IYKWIM.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 07-20-14 10:05 PM
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Yes, I would also like to subscribe to the nosflow poetry digest, but luckily one is able to do just such a thing in the other place, and so I have.


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 07-20-14 10:07 PM
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Lee's the one out at a gay bar

What a terrible gay bar.


Posted by: k-sky | Link to this comment | 07-20-14 11:09 PM
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A closeted gay bar is certainly an interesting concept.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 07-20-14 11:11 PM
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276

Nah bro, 24 is fine. Age is a cultural construct anyways.

I don't want to pry (well, ok I do, but don't feel like you have to talk about it), but what sort of relationship involves living separately and dating other people? That kind of sounds like...not a relationship.


Posted by: Buttercup | Link to this comment | 07-21-14 12:01 AM
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Sounds like some sort of open relationship to me.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 07-21-14 12:02 AM
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344: Hmm, she may actually have been. I know all the bartenders are straight now. I should ask.


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 07-21-14 3:37 AM
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all the bartenders are straight now.

Man, you work in a gay bar long enough and you just burn out on it? Or was there some kind of horrifying industrial accident?


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 07-21-14 3:39 AM
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It's just the straightest gay bar anywhere. It's still very gay-friendly and hosts gay events and so on, but it's also always been a neighborhood bar and in the last 5 or so years it's changed to being more of that, a friendly and welcoming place that's not overwhelmingly hipsterish, I guess. Kind of weird, but a lot of the gay bars around here have at least a few straight bartenders, though I know some whose identities have shifted over the years. Both of the straight couple last night had been bartenders at gay bars at various times.


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 07-21-14 3:46 AM
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349: I was thinking it's something like how working in a chocolate factory after a while makes you completely lose interest in chocolate.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 07-21-14 4:41 AM
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I worked in a sweet factory as an adolescent. The policy was 'eat however much you like' but they put you on sugar-free goods for the first couple of weeks, which forged a nigh-unshakeable Pavlovian bond between eating the product and needing to go to the toilet every 10 minutes.


Posted by: seeds | Link to this comment | 07-21-14 4:50 AM
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Pavlov got the dogs to distract him from his enlarged prostate.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 07-21-14 5:27 AM
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Lee confirms that our friend the gay taxidermist was there, so I'm wrong that she was the sole representative.


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 07-21-14 5:41 AM
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Or, as we say over here, she was not completely stuffed.


Posted by: Nworb Werdna | Link to this comment | 07-21-14 6:15 AM
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derauqsed totally owns the comments on this in the Guardian


Posted by: chris y | Link to this comment | 07-21-14 11:40 AM
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Speaking of Robinson Jeffers, Hunter Thompson used this for an epigraph to Fear and Loathing on the Campaign Trail:

http://www.poemhunter.com/poem/be-angry-at-the-sun/

"Observe them going down. Observe them gesticulating".

Could be the long-lost Unfogged sex tape.


Posted by: Alex | Link to this comment | 07-21-14 3:28 PM
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23, 25: Yes, definitely agree that EP should say something once to the guy. If he doesn't get this resolved before marriage, he's setting himself up for a lifetime of pain and struggle, no matter how much he may love being with this woman. It's not just that a future sexy person may come along and pose a threat to the marriage - the effort to not let that happen carries its own emotional costs. Back when things were really bad for us, before we got into marriage counselling the second time, I spent years building walls around my heart, trying to keep all my friendships with other women emotionally superficial so that I didn't wind up crying on someone's shoulder and falling into something that would be destructive to the marriage. I didn't much like the kind of person that effort made me.

Even if these two can agree to an open marriage where he gets his sexual needs met elsewhere, that's going to significantly limit the number of other women who would be willing to get involved with him. And there are emotional costs to being the third partner in such a situation that shouldn't be ignored.

Which is not to say that asexual people don't have legitimate needs for cuddling and companionship - they do (or can). I could see this relationship potentially working as a triad, in which an asexual partner gets cuddling and emotional intimacy from each of the two members of the sexual leg of the triangle. But that's a long way from saying that these two should rush into an asexual marriage.


Posted by: EDguy | Link to this comment | 07-22-14 8:20 AM
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332 is nice, thanks.

298 is confusing-- you like clothes and have great hair, that's enough for looks and lovability to include a big population.


Posted by: lw | Link to this comment | 07-22-14 10:58 AM
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On the OP: sudden loss of interest in sex with her husband, sudden shift in work patterns, new attention to her appearance, lots of overnight trips... She's cheating on him, isn't she?


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 07-22-14 4:24 PM
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If oral counts, yes.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 07-22-14 4:40 PM
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Eatin's not cheatin.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 07-22-14 5:12 PM
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