Re: OED, Give Yourself To Me

1

For many purposes the OED is total overkill. Not that I let that stop me.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 08-15-14 10:36 AM
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Maybe we need one dictionary and one lexicographer to add new words. But that's it.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 08-15-14 10:39 AM
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That's where licensing the API could be great: people could build applications to serve different needs (or someone could build one very good application that made the OED user-friendly).


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 08-15-14 10:40 AM
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At what point does an application used to modify an underlying master dictionary constitute a separate dictionary?


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 08-15-14 10:41 AM
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"Modify" seems question-begging.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 08-15-14 10:43 AM
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The existing web interface to the OED is quite good, actually.

I don't have a lot to add to this thread probably but I do want to keep making comments alluding to my continued access to the OED.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 08-15-14 10:43 AM
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Yes, I was about to tell you to fuck off just for that reason. I've now discovered that the two towns south of there give their residents access to the OED. I am rage.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 08-15-14 10:45 AM
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5: Then at what point does an application used to select a subset of content from an underlying master dictionary constitute a separate dictionary?


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 08-15-14 10:45 AM
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south of here


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 08-15-14 10:46 AM
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Never, Moby. Never ever.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 08-15-14 10:46 AM
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I think I want urban dictionary to continue to exist as a separate entity. Also wiktionary, because having an English-to-everything dictionary, for free, is rather nice. The OED is mostly only English-to-Middle French and English-to-Anglo Saxon.


Posted by: dalriata | Link to this comment | 08-15-14 10:48 AM
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This is somehow connected to the OED adding "douchebag," isn't it? Like, that has at last made it useful to you?


Posted by: slolernr | Link to this comment | 08-15-14 10:50 AM
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The copyright/IP law of dictionaries is complicated and interesting, but I have a current project involving this so I probably shouldn't say anything. There's no obvious legal or business reason why Ogged is wrong, though, I will say that.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 08-15-14 10:51 AM
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We had the giant multi-volume set when I was growing up, so I suppose I've had OED access my whole life. How about that?


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 08-15-14 10:52 AM
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Well, "there really only needs to be one dictionary" seems wrong. But there's certainly no obvious reason why the OED couldn't have done much better with a licensing scheme than with its overpriced subscription service.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 08-15-14 10:53 AM
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14 -- my parents got the gigantic full sized multivolume OED as a wedding present, and promised to do the same for me, but never did. Apparently I was not judged smart enough to need one. And I had three weddings!


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 08-15-14 10:55 AM
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13: I think there's an obvious business reason. There were, at the dawn of the internet, already several dictionaries in existence. While it may be true* that a single dictionary could move into an empty field and create a monopoly, being able to drive out already existing competitors is a much higher bar.

* but it isn't true.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 08-15-14 10:56 AM
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Slol, I want to subscribe so I can lobby for inclusion for "douchenozzle."


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 08-15-14 10:58 AM
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I got the compact OED as a wedding present, and love it. All you peons can suffer without internet access to the sweet bounty of words I revel in nightly.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 08-15-14 11:00 AM
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I used to have the compact OED but it was one of the many things that got lost in the divorce. I loved it.


Posted by: Barry Freed | Link to this comment | 08-15-14 11:07 AM
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Turns out I have access to the OED through my city library and I never even knew it.

Kind of shameful, actually, given my alleged profession.

Oh, well, I guess I figure if I can't tell a hawk from a handsaw, a dictionary probably isn't going to help.


Posted by: peep | Link to this comment | 08-15-14 11:08 AM
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20: If only your ex will marry Halford the next time that comes up.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 08-15-14 11:11 AM
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compact OED as a wedding present

You poor, benighted soul. The only question is whether having it on paper is worse than not having it at all. Probably.

("Only one dictionary" is, I agree, a bit of overstatement. But there's a pretty big opportunity for consolidation there. Apple, Microsoft...these companies have the cash to license the OED.)


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 08-15-14 11:12 AM
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I can get some Oxford dictionaries online through my local library, but not, as far as I can tell, The dictionary. Bummer.


Posted by: dalriata | Link to this comment | 08-15-14 11:13 AM
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I just checked and there is a copy 15 feet outside my door. Next to the St. Lucian Kweole - English dictionary. Its good working in a library.


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 08-15-14 11:20 AM
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Of course, the version here was published in 1970. Hell, I've got World Book Encyclopedias newer than that.


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 08-15-14 11:22 AM
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Feature requests from the OED-is-the-only-dictionary API:

EmulateScrabbleDictionary(float handicap=0)
AttestedInRange(uint start=0, uint end=oed::kNow)
PayAttentionToJoyce(bool status=false)
EmulateWebstersCollegiate()
EmulateUrbanDictionary()
Bowdlerize(uint prude_level = 0)


Posted by: Scomber mix | Link to this comment | 08-15-14 11:23 AM
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'there really only needs to be one dictionary"...

One Dictionary to rule them all, One Dictionary's fine for them,
One Dictionary to help the pedants overwhelm
In the Town of Oxford where the Shadows lie


Posted by: marcel | Link to this comment | 08-15-14 11:27 AM
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Maybe there are particular individuals at OED's management who like the current arrangement. Similarly inclined managers in sort-of-comparable situations I've seen run elderly and enjoy the sensation of control.


Posted by: lw | Link to this comment | 08-15-14 11:27 AM
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I just discovered that the PDBS public library offers JSTOR access remotely to PDBS residents. You use your PDBS library card number as an online access credential. Truly I get better value for my property tax dollar than anyone I know.


Posted by: knecht ruprecht | Link to this comment | 08-15-14 11:27 AM
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Definitely agree it should be cheaper. That's something I've earmarked future salary increases for. Loved it in college.

There are still reasons to have more than one dictionary out there, though. The OED is scrupulously complete, too much so for some purposes - if you're looking for standard modern definitions quickly, it's going to take a while to sort out the historical chaff. Ease of use is a differentiator. Then there are Scrabble dictionaries, technical dictionaries, and probably many more I don't know about.


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 08-15-14 11:28 AM
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Property taxes here are insane, and yet no OED! The town just south has the OED and free Rosetta Stone. (No JSTOR, though. That's pretty sweet.)


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 08-15-14 11:47 AM
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I myself would love to have it on paper. A 1970 edition would be about perfect, I think.


Posted by: slolernr | Link to this comment | 08-15-14 11:50 AM
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34

Worst affectation ever.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 08-15-14 11:52 AM
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I just checked and the first edition multi-volume set retails for about $450 used. Doesn't seem too bad, probably cheaper than Knecht's property tax.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 08-15-14 11:53 AM
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I think 1970 is the one my wife's had since before we met. Compact but still big, with a lorgnette-like magnifying glass.

Actually I keep a copy of a Webster's Collegiate from the fifties, because it's based on the 2nd International, not the 3rd. Anyone who's ever read Dwight Macdonald's review, collected in Against The American Grain, will know why.


Posted by: idp | Link to this comment | 08-15-14 11:54 AM
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37

We already had the property tax thread, right?


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 08-15-14 11:55 AM
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I got given the one-volume compact edition by my parents, but the magnifying glass it came with was a horrible non-effective dome thing, instead of the handled rectangular one my childhood two-volume set had. As a result I have to be really motivated to look up something in it (there's a smartphone magnifying glass app, but that has its own problems).

Also I can't keep it standing up straight in the bookshelf.

Happy memories are all from when I had online access. The OED was how I learned that the thou/you formal/informal distinction in English only really existed for a few hundred years.


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 08-15-14 11:57 AM
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39

I pay so little in property tax in "high tax" California(roughly .002% of the current assessed value of the home) it probably should be criminal. But -- knowledge of legal loopholes, making the real scandal what's legal since taxation began.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 08-15-14 11:58 AM
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Worst affectation ever

Oh come on. I would also like to have the Britannica on paper. Surely that's worse.

(PS we had one of those when I was growing up. Bet nosflow did too.)


Posted by: slolernr | Link to this comment | 08-15-14 11:59 AM
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41

39: Dsquared was right about you.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 08-15-14 12:01 PM
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38: Wasn't thou vs. you outgrowth of a regional distinction between Wessex/Mercian English and Northumbrian Viking-inspired English?

39: $2/$100k assessed value? Horrible. But awesome.


Posted by: dalriata | Link to this comment | 08-15-14 12:01 PM
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My parents have or until recently had a Britannica from the 50's, inherited from my grandmother. Out of date info is fun.


Posted by: dalriata | Link to this comment | 08-15-14 12:02 PM
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44

Oh, I added an extra zero. It's about $20.00/$100k assessed value. Still ridiculous.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 08-15-14 12:02 PM
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45

Britannica from the 50's, inherited from my grandmother. Out of date info is fun.

We've had that discussion, too.


Posted by: knecht ruprecht | Link to this comment | 08-15-14 12:05 PM
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46

This post title keeps playing in my head to the tune of "oh baby, bring it all to me," by Blaque. I assume that was intended.


Posted by: jms | Link to this comment | 08-15-14 12:11 PM
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42: Could be - I don't know the precise process. Although I always assumed it was partly by imitation/influence of French post-1066 (no formal pronouns in Old English).


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 08-15-14 12:15 PM
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40: nope! But I do have find memories of flipping to random pages in a random volume of the OED and reading around.

Really, ogged, you're depriving your children horribly by not having a set.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 08-15-14 12:15 PM
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I got my two-volume compact edition for $25, because a friend was working the cash register at the bookstore back in the day before inventory control systems. It was used, but the price I paid still reflected a $100 discount, so basically my friend helped me steal way more than the value of some nasty cigars, and yet I walk the streets a free man.


Posted by: President White Privilege | Link to this comment | 08-15-14 12:15 PM
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by Blaque. I assume that was intended

Never heard of them!


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 08-15-14 12:16 PM
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50. Well, they sing a song that goes, "O.E.D., give it all to me," or something like that. Can't you go to one of the two towns south of you and apply for a library card?


Posted by: jms | Link to this comment | 08-15-14 12:19 PM
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44: I would also be okay with that, you bastard.

45: Oh, great. Unfogged is a finite state machine and we've already cycled.


Posted by: dalriata | Link to this comment | 08-15-14 12:20 PM
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The private library that I'm a member of does have it, and I can use it at home. I miss the two-volume shorter OED. I wonder how much that used to cost.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 08-15-14 12:23 PM
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It has the lyric "Probability, don't you mess with me" from a Square One song playing in my head. Because I'm cool.


Posted by: Eggplant | Link to this comment | 08-15-14 12:25 PM
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I inherited a 1935 Britannica. I should really unpack it from our move 2 years ago.


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 08-15-14 12:34 PM
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Can't you go to one of the two towns south of you and apply for a library card?

No, have to be a resident. I don't know precisely how the property tax formula works here, but looking at taxes and sale prices, it works out to 2-3% of the true price of the home.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 08-15-14 12:37 PM
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I have the Shorter OED, which I received as a Christmas gift during high school. I most recently used it last night, when I stacked both volumes on top of a plate I was using to press some tofu.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 08-15-14 12:47 PM
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The link in 45 really speaks to me. I had a 1950s edition of the Britannica that was passed down from my uncle. I think I read every volume of it cover to cover several times over when I was a kid. I remember very little of it but there was a time I could go on at length about stuff like the Bessemer process.


Posted by: Barry Freed | Link to this comment | 08-15-14 12:49 PM
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The librarian writes back.

We had the OED database for several years and it received very little use. We use our resources to purchase subscription databases that receive the greatest use.
We are continually evaluating what we purchase and the use of our databases. I will pass your comments on to collections staff as part of our ongoing consideration.

Reasonable!


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 08-15-14 12:56 PM
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So my fellow citizens are to blame. Or they all have it at home.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 08-15-14 12:56 PM
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56: That's about what it is here, if you're lucky.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 08-15-14 12:57 PM
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I pay so little in property tax in "high tax" California(roughly .002% of the current assessed value of the home) it probably should be criminal.

Meanwhile, in New Hampshire, with no sales tax and no income tax, property tax is an arm and a leg. Nearly 3% of assessed value.


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 08-15-14 1:06 PM
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Wikipedia asserts that cocktail use of "sour" is a post-positive adjective, implying that the plural of "whiskey sour" is "whiskies sour", which is madness. The OED is sane on this point.


Posted by: Scomber mix | Link to this comment | 08-15-14 1:31 PM
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Gins rickety


Posted by: lw | Link to this comment | 08-15-14 1:33 PM
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I can confirm that Oxfordshire's library system offers one access to the OED, which I did not realise before this thread. But I believe that's the case for most of the UK; seems a bit silly not to, really...


Posted by: Parenthetical | Link to this comment | 08-15-14 1:37 PM
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As far as cocktails, you're looking at all the classics, your whiskeys sour, your gins rickey, your mints julep, your olds fashioned, your Moscows mule...


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 08-15-14 1:39 PM
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Pinas colada-- I would actually like to commision one of Erica Stucky's warped covers of that song using this plural.


Posted by: lw | Link to this comment | 08-15-14 1:45 PM
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While I'm glad ogged didn't actually tell me to fuck off, he could have given me some credit for maintaining an open portal to the OED for several years. But no.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 08-15-14 1:50 PM
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Brands Nubian
Gangs Starr
Mobbs Deep
Tones Lōc


Posted by: lw | Link to this comment | 08-15-14 1:55 PM
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Is douchecanoe in the OED yet?


Posted by: | Link to this comment | 08-15-14 1:57 PM
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Naughties By Nature


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 08-15-14 2:00 PM
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68: Which I was thankful for and now miss.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 08-15-14 2:00 PM
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||
41: Dsquared was right about you.

Speaking of whom, via twitter:

1) resigned from my job and left the industry
2) rented out the family home to finance a year's travel around the world with my family.

|>



Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 08-15-14 2:08 PM
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I blame Halford.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 08-15-14 2:12 PM
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74. Yep. Unless it's society.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 08-15-14 2:16 PM
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Oh nice, his blog is unprotected again.


Posted by: Eggplant | Link to this comment | 08-15-14 2:21 PM
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COMBATIVE WELSHMAN MEETUPS


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 08-15-14 2:26 PM
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77. Allow me to be the first to suggest Fresh Salt



Posted by: Barry Freed | Link to this comment | 08-15-14 2:28 PM
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Oh wow. If he comes and visits the cultural capital of the world, we could finally have an evil professions evil-off.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 08-15-14 2:30 PM
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... Gary, Indiana?


Posted by: MHPH | Link to this comment | 08-15-14 2:34 PM
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I have the two-volume OED (it was a present from my in-laws) but I envy my friend who has the online version. The paper one, for all its wonderfulness, is kind of hard to use.


Posted by: DaveLMA | Link to this comment | 08-15-14 2:35 PM
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Pretty sure that we can also find some oil industry executives and university administrators for the battle royale. Finding the mob hitman will be harder.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 08-15-14 2:36 PM
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I could find a guy who used to put illegal gambling machines in bars and is called Porky.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 08-15-14 2:38 PM
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The 21st century hasn't been easy for the mob is what I'm saying.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 08-15-14 2:40 PM
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73: Leading indicator. Short fucking everything.

Canned goods, bottled water, and ammo.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 08-15-14 2:51 PM
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46: I love that song.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 08-15-14 3:04 PM
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85 made me laugh.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 08-15-14 4:12 PM
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85: Wait! Are we supposed to short canned goods, etc., or buy them?


Posted by: DaveLMA | Link to this comment | 08-15-14 4:23 PM
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Buy short-canned goods like tuna or potted meat.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 08-15-14 4:27 PM
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Fucking everything is always a long position for me, laydeez.


Posted by: Todd | Link to this comment | 08-15-14 4:43 PM
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