Also I hate cuddling and can only tolerate very small amounts of it with exactly one specific grown person
Then, I'm thinking maybe this isn't for you.
You just have to find the right subculture.
Do you enjoy virtual cuddling, heebie?
I remember discovering a usenet group - like alt.hugs or something -- most of the messages were emoticons depicting hugs (other messages were people explaining why they needed a hug).
Did I just make that up?
Teethbrushr. Huh. It's a little rough but I think we can make it pitchable.
1: I deleted a sentence to that effect in the OP for being too explicit.
I can't remember where, but I'm pretty sure I recall places on line with a lot of virtual hugging -- I might be thinking of Salon's Table Talk forums back in 2001 or so?
Currently there's the nicest place on the internet, offering hugs. I don't find it squicky at all.
sex is about satisfying your own sex drive
I'm not saying you're a monster...
I have the impression that cuddling is very big with a certain segment of nerds who are also likely to use the phrases "poly," "tabletop gaming," and "cosplay." Like, they are always talking about cuddling and cuddle buddies at captainawkward.com.*
*The commenters there are also very free with "Jedi hugs," defined as
An offering of comfort which will not trigger people who do not like being touched or hugged. Also suitable for long-distance/virtual hugs.
the phrases "poly," "tabletop gaming," and "cosplay."
Dude, a trigger warning next time, OK?
9, related to 2, gets it right, and is I'd think interestingly related to the various recent blowups about how oblivious male fandom is to the forms its endemic sexism takes.
"Poly" just means "plastic" in my particular subculture. When you go to the supermarket, they give you a poly bag to put your shopping in.
Here you go: The Snuggery. (In a word, gross.)
interestingly related to the various recent blowups about how oblivious male fandom is to the forms its endemic sexism takes
Not sure quite what you're getting at here, Tweety. Could you elaborate?
This person tried it out, and found that everyone was after sex, after all.
Often I think I just want a cuddle, because I'm sitting alone and no one is touching me and it seems like a cuddle should be enough. But once I actually cuddle, I realize I want sex.
Actually a lot of things in life work like that.
15: something like... the intense appreciation for cuddling on the part of male nerds particularly is related to something like the Open Source Boob Project in that both are related to a nigh-pathological yearning for intimate human contact coupled with low self-image, which leads to an oft-forlorn wish that people could just engage in intimate contact and emotional closeness without any of the typical knowing or liking or being attracted to the other person being necessary. Which isn't inherently sexist, I suppose, but sort of forecloses thinking too coherently about the other participants' desires.
I'll buy heebie's argument. Cuddling is about being comfortable and intimate with somebody you care about. Cuddling with a total stranger would just be weird. And if it felt weird in a good way, that would probably be... sexy?
17: I had forgotten that ugly fiasco. What the fuck went so wrong with nerds?
What the fuck went so wrong with nerds?
Long periods of solitude and high availability of porn.
I'd think, were I in the market for extra cuddling, it would be easier to go down to the SPCA and adopt a stray cat or dog. Versus having a stranger come over and potentially do something weird, like axe-murder me.
19: It was always there; we were just ignored. Which let it fester in the darkness.
There's was a hilarious-sad twitter flame-up this weekend where Marc Andreessen claimed there were no bros in Silicon Valley, because tech culture is full of nerds and they're the natural enemy of bros. Yeah.
17: OK, I've never heard of the open source boob thing. I guess I thought you were talking about Gamergate, Elevatorgate, etc., and couldn't see the cuddle connection at all.
Actually a lot of things in life work like that.
"Long story short, now I have to register my address with the police."
22.2: Some people (see also the Penny Arcade dudes) have never gotten over high school and have been completely unable to update their self-conception to account for the fact that they are now rich and powerful. You'd think in Andreesen's case though that the actual physical transformation into a supervillain might have done the trick.
23: Some day we'll find it -- the Cuddle Connection,
The nerds, the perverts, and me
Cuddling with a stranger seems much more repulsive than sex with a stranger.
Even more repulsive than that???!
But yeah, the other thing (alright, "cuddle" is one of those words that mildly squicks me) with a stranger, that sounds creepy. Unless it led quickly to sex in which case it sounds fine.
There's was a hilarious-sad twitter flame-up this weekend where Marc Andreessen claimed there were no bros in Silicon Valley, because tech culture is full of nerds and they're the natural enemy of bros. Yeah.
How oblivious can you get? He might as well say he's fighting the establishment of dowager countesses at the opera.
Not to derail the thread too much (I had the same misunderstanding as L. in 23), but it really was shocking that he said that. I can't tell whether he actually thinks that or he thinks that there's some propaganda value to keeping that perspective mainstream.
27: For the last time, back off or at least buy me a drink first.
Naturally, Maciej Ceg[l with stroke]owski has been good on this (and also Andreessen's various cluelessnesses).
Besides the fact that nerds have their own problematically misogynistic culture, it's also the case that many people on the business side of SV aren't nerds. VCs and MBAs and salespeople are some of the douchiest douches around.
"cuddle" is one of those words that mildly squicks me
God yes. Like "yummy". Even if, say, Scarlett Johansson herself said, "Let's eat something yummy and then cuddle", I'd be all, uh, I have to go now.
The thing that rhymes with yummy is still worse, but yes. AND I DON'T MEAN GIN RUMMY. (There is a recipe site called yummly and I won't even use recipes off it because the name is the most annoying thing I've ever heard in my entire.)
Opinionated Stockard Channing made me laugh. I suspect Flippanter.
Next: an app for finding strangers for no-touching emotional intimacy.
(Please don't let's make this a thread about reactions to the sounds of words.)
Hey so which specific grown person can you tolerate cuddling with, heebs? I hope Jammies is cool with it, whoever it is.
37 is correct. Somehow I typed that while shuddering.
"panties" seems to be another word that many find offensive or off-putting (sorry, minivet).
Next: an app for finding strangers for no-touching emotional intimacy.
I suppose it is the moment in the life of this thread when this poem should be linked.
I feel like someone who's completed the drive south through New Jersey and seen the sign for Newark.
How much is it the meaning, and how much is it the sound? Is anyone bothered by hoist or joist?
I feel like someone who's completed the drive south through New Jersey and seen the sign for Newark.
Ace of Base!
I don't like these cuddle/tummy words much either, but the joy I find in using them around Smearcase and now McQueen outweighs my distaste for them.
Linda Bean (daughter of L.L.), currently engaged in an effort to make Maine tourist friendly, because apparently it needs that, sells "Linda Bean's Perfect Maine Lobster Cuddlers".
46: I think it must be the sound, because otherwise they'd be bothered by 'damp', right? In fact damp seems like it would be a lot worse, because nobody uses that to describe cake.
I don't know. I don't get it at all.
reddit AMA from an ex professional cuddler:
http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/24mizj/iama_former_professional_snuggler_ama/
apparently divorced men in their 50s are the target consumers.
42: Admirably on topic, but I dispute that it is a poem.
Is anyone bothered by hoist or joist?
Rather odd words, neither woody nor tinny.
It's the correlation of phoneme and meaning. Mucus, mollusk, moldy, moist: all the gross, squishy m-things.
This app sounds weird, and I'm not at all surprised that it's turning into just another way for people to (probably unsuccessfully) find casual sex. I don't understand the emphasis you see in stuff like this on the importance of non-sexual touch. I mean, non-sexual touch is great and all, but surely there can't be that many people who want it but don't also want sex.
I was thinking it might have more to do with the vowel sounds (in particular longer vowel sounds, esp. but not necessarily diphthongs), but I could see labial or labiodental consonants also having an effect. Any "b" or "v" words for anyone where that constant seems relevant?
Is anyone bothered by hoist or joist?
46: except less Nazi.
Yes, more Nazi would be Horst and Johst.
Johst, incidentally, sounding quite mcmanus in this quote:
And then, you're right in the middle of a parley and they say: Hands up! You're disarmed..., you republican voting swine!--No, let 'em keep their good distance with their whole ideological kettle of fish ... I shoot with live ammunition!
Any "b" or "v" words for anyone where that constant seems relevant?
VAGINA
What is the purported relevance of labial/labiodental consonants?
62: Obviously but I don't think the "v" is relevant there--that's why for insults the productive part is the "-gina." My hypothesis is that the phonological squickishness is the stressed long i, especially in the context of the soft g.
63: Sifu suggested it was the "m" sound. So I figured it'd be worth looking at other sounds with similar mouth movement.
Because the obvious point is to come up with weaponizable nonce words.
I really doubt there's much of a phonological component to this reaction to words, or at least that it plays a much larger role than the semantics.
I refuse to apologize for enjoying cuddling with nosflow, bitch, heebie, and blume.
I did think nosflow was older before we cuddled.
64: There's a very odd passage in one of the last Nero Wolfe books -- written, and sort of taking place in the 1970s, but of course Archie hasn't aged or changed much since the 1930s. Somehow, this turns into his talking to a Women's Libber about how words for the male genitalia start with p -- "penis", "prick" -- while words for the female genitalia start with v -- "vulva", "vagina" -- so it's sexist that words for urination start with p as well -- "piss", "pee".
One of those moments where you're reading and think that the author just completely slipped off the rails for a bit.
But then why do people not get squicked out by, as L. suggested, "damp"? Why is "tummy" bothersome but not--or at least no one's suggested--"belly"? I actually find the word "squick" itself kind of gross sounding but "gross" doesn't bother me.
Do people with this reaction to words actually remember having it, say, ten years ago, significantly before it started being talked about online? I get a huge vibe of social construction around the whole thing - not that that makes such a reaction non-genuine, of course.
My hypothesis is that the phonological squickishness is the stressed long i, especially in the context of the soft g.
Certainly my 60s adolescent immigrant self got lots of giggles pronouncing the largest city in Saskatchewan in the English latin way, with a long i. Kids who knew the word at all--mostly Catholics--pronounced it with a short i.
"Moist" seems to be a special case. I know several people with an extreme distaste for it, and I couldn't say that about any other word.
"by Sharon Olds" is as far as I got with the poem in 42. She's great and everything, but it's too early in the morning to provoke emotional upset.
I know. I was screaming, "awkwardly formatted prose isn't a poem."
70: There was a similar passage in a Neal Stephenson book--probably Cryptonomicon--where a protagonist's ex is a straw-feminist who, to get back at him, writes a well-received paper about how having a beard is imperialist and sexist because only white men can grow luxurious full beards like the protagonist has. Makes me think that as bad as men (writing for men) can be at writing women, we're particularly bad at writing feminists.
72: The first time I heard about it I definitely recognized some mild aversion in some of the words in the canonical set, but it's probably been intensified by the feedback.
"Slather" is kind of gross but also kind of fun to say. Slather, slather, slather.
I wonder if it's part of the same general hyperprescriptive linguistic atmosphere we have now, at least in the subpopulation that considers usage a valid conversational topic. (From which I only tore myself away over the past 5 years.) Going along with hypercorrection of passive voice, etc.
77:
Shouldn't have said short, I guess. I mean like "Geena."
Our friend JPJ is both RC and Canadian, and probably grew up using the word with either pronunciation depending on context.
If the Queen of England one way, if the Queen of Heaven the other.
A quick search indicates that the Olds poem has been referenced once previously on the blog. Also another one, which I had to go and read. Guess what? Emotionally upsetting. My first encounter with her work turned out to be kind of a bizarre coincidence, which I'm tempted to relate but for its, you know, emotional upset.
But then why do people not get squicked out by, as L. suggested, "damp"? Why is "tummy" bothersome but not--or at least no one's suggested--"belly"?
Well, do we know that there aren't people who get squicked out by those other words? Maybe there are. In any case, I'm not seeing any consistent phonological pattern to the words people object to that distinguishes them from other English words.
I really dislike the common word for passing gas.
I think all of the words mentioned have an /i/ sound (not necessarily stressed) or a diphthong, except for "cuddle". When I think of words that affect me there's usually a sound you can linger on that mostly strong triggers the aversion in me. I agree that the semantic part of it is important but it's apparently not sufficient.
Thanks for 77. I was trying to figure out what was dirty about "Saskatoon".
I think all of the words mentioned have an /i/ sound (not necessarily stressed) or a diphthong
I think that's just because lots of English words contain /i/ or a diphthong, and you've already given one counterexample (heebie gives another in 84).
When I think of words that affect me there's usually a sound you can linger on that mostly strong triggers the aversion in me.
That could well be the trigger in practice, but I suspect it mostly follows from the semantic aversion rather than leading it.
More like bask-a-poon, right? Right?
I was just bullshitting since I don't really have much in the way of word aversion (well, I'm not a fan of "festive"). But by all means let's not leave it at that. I was thinking the mo or moi or mu (don't make me use IPA! I can't! I can't!) felt too much like you were sucking down an oyster and that was obviously not the sensation you wanted to experience when discussing cake.
Same reason a lot of people don't like Boise.
"Snuggle": worse or better than "cuddle"? I think maybe marginally better, but both imply the horrifying prospect of not having sex.
89: I wish "Saskatoon" were somehow inherently dirty, but I've been to the place it denotes, and it's pretty clean.
I was thinking the mo or moi or mu (don't make me use IPA! I can't! I can't!)
You actually pretty much are, for those specific sounds at least.
90: Enh, sure. (And I do have some aversion to some short vowel words, but it feels different in ways I can't quantify yet.) So how would an experiment have to be structured to test this? Tell people that a nonce word means something about wetness or personal intimacy or body parts, use it in context a few times, and see how they react, measured against known-common-triggers and words unlikely to trigger?
92: Boise would fit really well into my hypothesis. What a disgusting-sounding place.
Which is grosser to get slapped in the face with on a first date: a Beusser or a Vebby?
96: Except that it's pretty dry. If it were on the other side of the Cascades, sure.
So how would an experiment have to be structured to test this? Tell people that a nonce word means something about wetness or personal intimacy or body parts, use it in context a few times, and see how they react, measured against known-common-triggers and words unlikely to trigger?
First you'd probably have to just present the nonce words in isolation and ask questions about the reaction they produce, then maybe you'd follow up with something like that.
If you stuck your hand in a dark cabinet, would you be more disturbed if there was a Splunger or a Woig in there?
One of the rooms in the Roosevelt house in Hyde Park is called The Snuggery.
What's a grosser adjective for a pie: "slerp" or "fenny"?
100, 102: I want to see this research done with actual situations rather than hypothetical questions. "Eat one of these slices of pie. The one on the left is a little slerp, while the one on the right is kind of fenny. Then you have your choice of putting the dirty dishes in the dishwasher, watching out for the splunger therein, or the dumbwaiter, which is occupied by a woig."
And then see what people do.
Saskatoon certainly larger now, can't tell if it always was but I think not.
My dad, a civilian naval employee, entered the uniform service in 1943. He'd never been more than a few miles from salt water in his life, but was sent to Regina for naval training, one of those things everybody laughed about then. He stayed in touch with the guys he trained with for the rest of his life, and we'd visit them on trips.
Beusser, splunger, fenny.
But "slerp" doesn't really work because "slurp pie" runs together.
In the last part of 103, it sounds as if the splunger is just part of the dishwasher (you know, it's probably the part that springs up and shoots water out) while the woig is a creature of some kind—probably a rodent with rough fur and poisonous spittle—that lives in the dumbwaiter. So that might influence outcomes.
Also because "slerp" and "slurp" are indistinguishable to the ear and, sometimes, to the writer.
103: Try getting that study approved by a University Research Ethics Committee.
I'm glad that you guys are committed to improving the experimental validity of my comments.
Is there a good word for when Ace's hair gets stuck in her snot? That's pretty gross.
110: snoinger.
The other day Zardoz's bangs were glued to her forehead with snot.
Woigs are small creatures, about the length of a pinky finger, that live in symbiosis with the bandersnatch.
After reading that sentence, very few study participants were willing to walk through the door marked "symbiosis".
You are presented with a dish in a fancy restaurant which is served raw. Would it be better if it was a Lummy or a Meps?
Is the meps fresh? Locally sourced?
One of my all time great deposition moments, for which I was entirely unprepared:
"Please describe your educational background."
"I grew up in Saskatoon, got my accounting degree at the university in Regina . . ."
"You got your degree in her WHAT?"*
*I didn't actually say.
You are presented with a dish in a fancy restaurant which is served raw. Would it be better if it was a Lummy or a Meps?
Also because "slerp" and "slurp" are indistinguishable to the ear
What? No they're not.
I, like other southern Californians, have a limited stock of vowel sounds.
Is 121 something you're doing to save water in this time of drought?
I don't have the slerp-slurp split natively, but I can pass for having it if the situations requires.
As a conscientious Californian, Neb moves his vowels daily.
Is Josh claiming that slurp and derp don't rhyme?
Josh's views about what rhymes with what are notoriously insane.
I have lots of vowels, natively, but if there's a difference between how I'd say slerp and slurp, it's the barest shadow of a hint.
I read somewhere that in southern California "back" is moving toward being pronounced like "bock." I had wondered what the story on the LA accent was since watching the SNL thingy with all the highway names that made fun of it.
Guessing here, but for me slerp and slurp are both /sleÉąpĘ°/ while slurp for Josh would be maybe /slĘŠÉąpĘ°/.
125, 126: I would accept "slurp" and "derp" as a rhyme even while I would say that the vowel sounds are distinguishable. nosflow's views about what constitutes a rhyme are notoriously strict.
Copypaste fail, that should have been sləɹpʰ for me, of course, because it really matters.
I'm going to need audio of ttaM saying slerp and slurp before I believe there's a possible difference.
I just learned about yod-dropping and now I'm wondering what words I say yodlessly have yodfulness encoded into them.
I just learned about yod-dropping
They should have told you to get a yod-litter box when you adopted your yod.
I pronounce "slerp" as "syrup" and "slurp" as "sizzurp", so yes.
You don't pronounce the L in either case? Is that because it's after an S?
I never pronounce any Ls. I don't think I'm alone in this?
For instance, heebie pronounces "dalriata" as /dArE/
Oh, huh, I didn't know that. I'll look into it. There are (at least) two L phonemes in English--does this hold for both of them? Do you pronounce "less" the same as the letter "s" and "apple" "a-puh"?
I suppose I sometimes transpose things, so there is an L in there. I think I say "alp-puh".
I don't find 138, even modified by 141, remotely plausible.
In heebie's accent "Chumley" is not a surprisingly truncated pronunciation of "Cholmondeley", but simply how the word sounds.
Does it bother people when I say chummy?
Heebie pronounces "trolling one's own blog" as "troeing one's own bog".
My actual pseud is heeblie-geeblie, but I opted for the phonetic version.
Chummy chummy chummy I got scum in my tummy
I don't really understand IPA, but am I right that 129 is describing a hint of short u in slurp? Like, he starts to say "slum", then end with "urp"?
Well, 149 could have been much worse.
I would just like to take this opportunity to put a word in against "hubby".
Transposition isn't uncommon in consonant clusters; I do that for a few fixed words but I forget offhand what they are. I read up a bit on it here and here; L-dropping seems to mainly correspond to rhotic dialects, with Irish and General American not really doing it but AAVE and most British accents do. Nothing on any of the Southern accents, but I don't even know if you're rhotic or non-rhotic.
So I guess I'm not that surprised about the end-of-syllable [É«] but I am surprised that you drop word-initial /l/.
(My confusion was heightened by the fact that you and I probably don't pronounce "syrup" the same way, either.)
All you thinking about is clum, helebie.
Dalriata catches up on the last ten comments in 3...2....1...
151: That's how I was trying to represent how I say it actually...I think. I screw up r-colored vowels, though--the way a plain vowel and the same vowel with an r after it sound pretty different to me.
156: C'mon. Trolling me isn't even worth it.
I would just like to take this opportunity to put a word in against "hubby".
Relatedly, yhe whole world of acronyms in the women's messaging boards is a bit hard to handle. (DH, DD, DS, and the very, very worst: BD.)
Let's all suspend our gag reflexes: On the TTC boards - that's Trying To Concieve - BD stands for Baby Dance.
159 just shows that heebie doesn't hang out on adoption boards, several of which I'm involved in have had to bar people from using BM.
153 is just leaving me disappointed that I can't quite come up with a plausible pickup line to use on snarkout in response. (I was about to say I'm clocking out now, but I don't want heebie to be alarmed that it means I've gotten drastic plastic surgery.)
When I googled it just now, it looks like it does stand for Baby Daddy in a lot of contexts, which is why I threw in the TTC part.
(I was about to say I'm clocking out now, but I don't want heebie to be alarmed that it means I've gotten drastic plastic surgery.)
I laughed.
I have a friend who consistently refers to her husband on fb as "the hubbz" which is, the panel will agree, worse than "hubby."
I call Blume "my wibber"; any issues there?
I call Jammies Jammies. Is that gross?
I have a friend who consistently refers to her husband on fb as "the hubbz" which is, the panel will agree, worse than "hubby."
If it's our mutual Austin acquaintance, I'll be entertained.
128: I assumed it was related to the Ahhnold Ahhccent - "I'll be bock."
I never pronounce any Ls. I don't think I'm alone in this?
Maybe not exactly the same thing, but what is up with that initial L sound that so many broadcasters do? I'm thinking of maybe Tom Brokaw and a bunch of NPR people. It's, like, velarized or something?
Good job on that masterful trolling, heebs.
153 is just leaving me disappointed that I can't quite come up with a plausible pickup line to use on snarkout in response.
Hubba-hubba!
171: I'm not familiar with that; you wouldn't happen to have a link? Preferably one where Brokaw isn't trolling.
If we identify General American with broadcaster English, Wikipedia supports your hypothesis of a velarized clear L.
174: I don't, and unfortunately I'm not so determined to procrastinate that I'll look for one, but it's like pronouncing the more common (alveolar?) L without the tip of the tongue touching. I'll post a link if I happen to find one; you'll totally recognize what I'm thinking.
169: I am sad to report that it is not.
Oh here's a horrible one: "husbear." People actually say this. They do.
The husbear is married to the ... wink?
Heh, you're definitely right--I just tried to produce an over-the-top velarized initial L and I was surprised by how much more authoritative I sounded. God I'm stupid.
On Moist and other words (NSFW).
I just watched a youtube video about the difference between light L and dark L. I don't hear it. Kind of want to change my name to Dark L. though.
172: thank you. It's a craft, really.
And thus was Thorn's gusset fetish revealed.
Do you have something about gussets? They're probably one of the best inventions of their millennium! I am all about the gussets. (No treble.)
Something AGAINST gussets. I find it so baffling I can't even write about it!
I personally have nothing against gussets, and didn't even know what they were until I saw your comment and googled. I had seen the comic linked in 181 before, so I had seen the word.
182: You totally should! At least for Halloween, or if you need to distinguish yourself from an alternate reality doppelgänger.
The way I'd describe the difference in sound is that I usually have a slight flap to my light L (try "let"--if you don't feel it, try overpronouncing it in a haughty upper-class English way) but I don't in the dark L (try, well, "L." --if you do feel a flap, try clipping it off or pronouncing it faster. Your tongue should also be touching the roof of your mouth further back).
There's a certain light connotation attached to the word "panties." Can we find another name for them?
The dark L is made with the back of the tongue at the back of the mouth. The light L is made with the front of the tongue at the front of the mouth. We always start words with the light L, I believe. We sometimes end words with the dark L, especially the word "ball".
Huh. I remember having a conversation once about whether the word "walk" contains any 'l' sound; I thought that it does, and everyone else I was talking to thought it doesn't. I guess I probably pronounce it with a "dark L"?
Or maybe I don't and this is one of those occasions when what I think I say is not what I actually say.
191 is correct; I was trying to find a different way to express it than you'd find on the first video that comes up on Youtube. I have a dark L in my "walk" but there's also a non-standard process called L-vocalization in which dark L's turn into vowel sounds.
No, hrm, maybe I don't. Not sure. Apparently it's standard not to pronounce an L sound at all.
191 is what youtube said. I find that I always have my tongue at the front of my mouth when I make an L, even in 'ball'. If I try to do it with the back of my tongue, all that comes out is a kind of choking sound. It certainly doesn't sound authoritative. In fact as I sit here and try it, the dog is wuffing concernedly.
I feel like someone who's completed the drive south through New Jersey and seen the sign for Newark.
The sign this evokes for me is "Trenton makes, the world takes", which I always want to read as passive-aggressive somehow, but... that's not for Newark.
I find that I always have my tongue at the front of my mouth when I make an L, even in 'ball'.
Not unusual at all, hence the "sometimes" in 191. The basic deal is that English has only one /l/ phoneme, and the distinction between "light" and "dark" is not meaningful. The phonetic realization of the phoneme therefore varies from speaker to speaker and, for some but not all speakers, changes according to the phonetic environment of the l. There may be some dialects that do this more regularly than others, but I believe in most American dialects the variation is pretty free with the light version generally dominant.
If I try to do it with the back of my tongue, all that comes out is a kind of choking sound.
This, though, sounds like you're trying to do it too far back in the mouth. It's not really the back of the tongue so much as the mid-back part, and it should be touching forward of the uvula.
darklr, the new pronunciation app.
Listen to a Russian speaking English and you will really hear the dark L.
The British sitcom Coupling had some recurring punchline about the word "gusset" and I didn't know what one was so I never got it.
I assume the scandalous aspect of gussets is in fact the gussets in panties or something similar, but that seems pretty pitiful to me.
What is that word for when you put a sort of oxbow-shaped bend in a rope, without actually looping it? The word "gusset" reminds me of it, but it's not it.
Listen to a Russian speaking English and you will really hear the dark L.
Thanks, Smearcase! All this gibberish about tongue positioning, and all I had to do was a Natasha Badanov impression. I can totally do it now.
The L in 'squirrel' is light. The L in 'moose and squirrel' is dark.
From the link in 206:
The unusual conference is part of a global campaign launched this month to get 100,000 men and boys involved in the fight for gender equality, which the United Nations had hoped would be achieved by 2015. That deadline won't be met; in an interview this year, the head of UN Women, Phumzile Mlambo-Ngcuka, said projections indicate that if things don't change, achieving gender equality will take 95 years.
Someone thought that gender equality would be achieved in 2015?
Blume was teaching our party guests the word "gusset" this past weekend.
A google search for "gusset" turns up some surprising inline images on the first results page.
206: The Global Gender Gap Report 2013 compiled by the World Economic Forum ranked Iceland top in gender equality in economic, health and other matters.
I'll give Iceland the benefit of the doubt on this one meeting.
Majority,,213-- sorry, google "gusset unsexy" and everything will bcome clear
I'm offended on behalf of all the underwear models who show up when you search gusset unsexy. Like, come on. That's harsh.
Where is there supposed to be a gusset in underpants, though? Especially a thong? Or do chicks in thongs just always show up no matter what search terms one uses
All this gibberish about tongue positioning, and all I had to do was a Natasha Badanov impression. I can totally do it now.
... are we still talking about accents?
Oh, for those who don't follow the link in 206: Iceland is announcing a U.N. conference on women and gender equality -- and only men and boys are invited.
It might be more interesting to ask, but it is fun to speculate as to why the Icelanders, best feminists in the world, think a segregated discussion of women's issues would be more effective in changing men (presuming it is only men that need changing). One can assume, based on the ranking shown in 214, that it is based on successful experience.
You have my permission, if you need it, to put the blame entirely on men for a presumed ineffectiveness of mixed-gender discourse. Cause I'm a...
207: BORIS Badenov. Natasha Fatale. They never actually married, did they? Or not for non-nefarious reasons? I really only ever get to see the Bullwinkle dvd Mara's obsessed with over and over, so I don't have a good sense of the full story arc or anything.
Maybe they just didn't change their names.
206/214: I sort of agree with bob? There might be good reasons to have a one-off mens-only conference on feminism, if it's being run by responsible moderators.
I'll have to remember "sound like Natasha."
I don't buy the "Iceland is feminist so there must be a good reason". What's the point of it? I could understand having a mens-only discussion on the level of encouraging good behavior in individual men, but when talking about global polities that doesn't add up.
226: I assume so. I had been unable to parse that sentence yesterday: "The feeling you get when you've been driving in one direction for hours, yet somehow end up where you began?"
I interpreted it to mean someone driving to the airport from Upper Manhattan and finding even that little bit of New Jersey exhausting. Delaware makes more sense.
166 et al
I've heard 'boyfriend' referred to as "boyf" or "the boyf," which we must all admit is the worst.
There are at least some people in the anti-racism movement who think that basic racism 101 stuff is best as a whites only sort of thing, because that way other white people can do the basic teaching/helping people sort through their baggage. The rationale is that it's a tedious task and dealing with racist people figuring out their stuff is less frustrating and emotionally draining for white people than it is for POC. I've taught some anti-racist workshops and the sort of stuff people say is really offensive. If I were a POC I'd probably find it harder to keep my cool.
Kind of want to change my name to Dark L. though.
That's the alternate-universe L., presumably. The one where LizardBreath is in-house counsel for Goldman Sachs and nosflow can't use punctuation correctly.
There are at least some people in the anti-racism movement who think that basic racism 101 stuff is best as a whites only sort of thing
These people have clearly never heard a Chinese person say what he thinks about Nigerians. Blimey.
Boyf written down doesn't bother me (it's a long word to type out), but actually saying it would.
I assume that anyone who says they don't like "moist" is an unimaginative bandwagon-jumper-onner.
C hates "supper" so sometimes I will offer him some supper on purpose. I don't mind "tummy" at all, but I really don't like "belly", and I never say it. Took me a long time to say bellybutton. And I don't like "fart" either.
dh/dd/etc I've been reading for [looks at 16 year old across the table and does sums] about 15.5 years (in newsgroups first of all), I'm immunised and use them without thinking if I'm in that environment. It annoys me when people complain about them as if they're some newfangled cutesy thing those dang women have dreamt up. (Like fucking bloggers who think blogs were invented about 4 1/2 years ago.)
Okay, here's what I was talking about. Here's Ira Glass doing the L thing, which strikes me as different from an ordinary dark L: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2y8f_8teVc (listen for the way he pronounces "love" at 1:00). Here's Tom Brokaw: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bV_041oYDjg (several times just in the first thirty seconds). It's like a dark L pronounced with the tip of the tongue against the lower teeth. The distinctive thing to me is that they do it with initial L, not just medial or final. I've only known a few people IRL who do that, but I can think of several broadcasters who do, so that's what made me wonder if there's some connection.