And I wouldn't be surprised if this has been specifically articulated, at least in the comments, in the past, but if so I skimmed/missed it.
Well, (like you said), I think it's common to talk about abusers sabotaging their victims' ability to leave, but classifying it so explicitly is really useful for addressing it.
That you can control and terrify someone by continually making them financially unsteady to the point of abuse.
Right, like retail and service employees.
Yes, and the entire United States / capitalist society, got it.
This sort of thing is currently being addressed by the Full Frame Initiative in its Five Domains of Wellbeing approach, which goes beyond just the financial part. (The five domains: Social Connectedness, Stability, Safety, Mastery, Meaningful Access to Relevant Resources.) Community-based domestic violence programs (i.e., everything non-shelter) in MA are being completely redesigned around it.
Your traditional DV response is based on the safety domain almost to the exclusion of all the others. Not for no good reason: we can truly be talking about life and death here. But that paradigm can also lead to a lot of failure to help people who can't or don't want to be helped in that one particular way only (when that way is "get out of the situation").
That's fantastic, Blume. Thanks for sharing it!
Also noticeable in the OP, how much of that was common treatment of women until the 1970s. No bank or credit account of your own, don't learn to drive or anyway don't own a car, only work at a job your husband approves of.
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Kevin Drum has metastatic bone cancer.
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There are not a few cases where the meanness / controlling /gaslighting constitutes practically all the abusive behaviour. Sufficiently horrible all by itself. Something that I associate particularly with dry drunks for anecdotal reasons.
How do the abusers learn all these techniques? Do they hang out on abuser internet forums and swap methods, or something?
"And the cat's in the cradle and the silver spoon..."
10&11: I'm glad you guys think it's some kind of mysterious strategy. I think it's more like instinct. Abuse is generally about control, right? I think it's (at the beginning) a series of actions where the abuser gains a bit more control and the victim cedes it. Like the car thing, maybe the girlfriend came home late, and the guy was "worried" (about her safety, not knowing where she was, thinking she might have been doing something he wouldn't approve of) so he offers her a daily ride home. Or maybe a girlfriend asks her boyfriend to give her a call at lunch and before he leaves work, then it escalates until he's less available for work duties. I don't mean to say it's a normal progression, but it seems like the reasoning isn't so hard to follow.
Sorry, glad sounds a little condescending. I literally mean that it's good that this behavior is so foreign to you that you simply can't grasp what happens inside a relationship like that.
Or maybe a girlfriend asks her boyfriend to give her a call at lunch and before he leaves work, then it escalates until he's less available for work duties. I don't mean to say it's a normal progression, but it seems like the reasoning isn't so hard to follow
I think this accurate and insightful, but not always tending without interruption to a state of dominance, abuse and control. Even those who, looking back see such factors affecting their lives and careers may see that they were full participants.
I'll cite myself as an example. From law school onwards I've almost never socialized or hung out with the people I might have networked with, nearly always talking to my wife on the phone and hurrying home for dinner. I've never felt like I could just decide to stay or develop a relationship, and always felt I couldn't just come home whenever. But had I really wanted to do those things, I'd have simply insisted on doing them, or articulated why I should.
Perhaps I'd have done so spontaneously without the pull home, but I can't be sure about that, and it's not who I am.
I imagine every bit of independence is obvious and galling to someone who craves control (cf. dry drunks?) . The 1920s & 1970s are full of biographies in which a husband panics when his wife starts earning money, even if her recollection is that she wasn't thinking of leaving.
(E.g. Pearsall who made the London A-Z, the last biography I read.)
This is not specific to economic abuse, though Rowan has suffered several versions of that, but I feel like I have to say it somewhere and this seems like the best spot. Before anyone reads on, I'll just say that everyone in our family is household is fine and there's not a scary bad ending or anything. That said, I'd been thinking earlier today about how Robin Hood steals from the rich and gives to the poor because the rich are the ones who have money.
Lee and I had our date night tonight with my parents watching the girls at home. While we were in the car, Rowan sent me a weird text saying he was in town and coming over and wanted to see me, which is not what he's ever said before and so I responded immediately that we weren't home. Then Az/z Ansar/ was maybe 20 minutes into his routine when I realized the number calling Alicia's phone was my dad's cell. I went out in the lobby to call back and find out whether Selah was keeping up her streak of dramatic vomiting every time we went out. Nope.
Apparently Rowan, who's now 20, did come over and my mom wouldn't let him and his friend into the house but fed them on the front porch, which is exactly what I would have done. She talked to them for 45 minutes or so about how they're hoping to improve their lives and how hard it is to figure out how to live a good and healthy life if you've been raised in dysfunction, while my dad put the girls to bed upstairs.
Then my mom asked if they needed to use the bathroom before leaving. They agreed they did, helped clear their plates, and then she heard Rowan saying "I'm so sorry I have to do this" and turned around from the sink to see him holding a gun on her. She did what I'd have done, which is interesting since I was the target, and just talked calmly about how this wasn't reasonable and he didn't need to do it and they'd just been talking about how the boys wanted to do better. When the friend showed that he had a gun too she said, "Well, and I have a knife, and I'm putting it in the dish drainer. Doesn't mean you have to use it." And then she turned around and saw they still had them and said, "I'm sorry but I'm going to have to ask you to leave." And the back door was open and they did, leaving prints and DNA all over everything along the way. And taking her wallet, which the sergeant who came promptly after the 911 call asked her leave unreported until tomorrow so they can track them through card use if necessary.
So my boy is 20 this month and going to jail now, possibly because I'll have to testify against him. I knew already that incarceration might not be the worst thing for him where he's been lately. But his plan was to bind me with tape and threaten me with a gun, minimum, and my heart is just breaking for him that he's gotten to this point. And I'm completely freaked out and don't feel entirely safe in my home. I want to say he'd never have hurt the girls, but I also would have thought he'd never have attacked me. But I turned him down for $60 earlier this week and I'm the only person he can still go to for money, so if he wants money I can see why I might be the only source he could imagine. It could have been so much worse in so many ways and I can't think through those hypotheticals, though Lee is doing a lot of that. I'm just so sad and so grateful things are okay, but this is still awful.
Holy shit. So sorry to hear you're having to deal with that on top of everything else, Thorn.
It kind of puts the rest of the stuff in perspective! And only Nia was aware of any of it, and it shouldn't be too hard to explain what she heard to her, especially because her history has left her with a fairly nuanced view of both police and prisoners.
And I'm completely freaked out and don't feel entirely safe in my home. I want to say he'd never have hurt the girls, but I also would have thought he'd never have attacked me.
Jesus, I'm sorry to hear that. Unfortunately, you're right to be freaked out. Even for a strung out street kid, theft is the norm, but that kind of robbery is not. From a professional standpoint, I wonder what he's using. Out here the stolen car scene is mostly guys on meth but the bank robbers tend to be on heroin.
Oh, jeez, Thorn. I'm so sorry that's in your life. Wishing you peace and grace.
That's so depressing, Thorn. If there's anything positive to take away from this, your mom sounds super badass and kind, which isn't surprising, knowing you. My sympathies.
20: I'm guessing meth for a couple of reasons, but honestly don't know. Heroin's big here and a few months ago when we discussed it last he was genuine in not wanting to mess with it given some of the things he's seen. But a lot could have changed.
I do feel like "Struggling young person turns on Grandma/Mom/only adult who's ever helped him" is a common enough story that in some ways it's not surprising, but that doesn't really alleviate the creepiness.
I'm not looking forward to hearing this discussed on the neighborhood listserv, but there's been nothing yet. The girls are all awake and Nia hasn't mentioned it, so I think we're back to normal and I'll just gently check in with her later.
22: My mom has her flaws, as do I, but I am so proud of and grateful for her response and that it worked. She seemed totally unruffled when we got home last night and said that, unlike my pattern, she doesn't think she'll melt down today or once things are resolved. I don't know how accurate that is.
Holy shit, Thorn, that is awful and so upsetting. I'm so sorry.
Cripes, thorn. You and your mom are very brave!
Good god, that is a truly remarkable reaction on behalf of your mom and yourself, and I am so sorry that you all had to deal with it. Wow.
"I'm so sorry I have to do this"
But not so sorry that he won't do it, and he has to, so it's not really his fault. The apparently humane apology is the creepiest part of the whole episode.
she doesn't think she'll melt down today or once things are resolved
Maybe she's one of those guys like in Highlander.
Thorn, I'm so sorry for both you and him. I'm glad your mom handled it just right. I hope he gets the help he needs, and I hope your sense of security returns.
Holy fuck. And, wow, your mom is a super hero.
Wow. Thorn and family, please take care.
About the OP: I think it's interesting how providing for someone can also be a way of controlling them. This happens a lot among my relatives, not to the point where I'd call it abusive, but there's a fair amount of intrusion and coercion that is justified by saying "I only want what's best for you."
Gswift can mock me for being one of those excuse-making parents, but when talking to the sergeant I did find myself saying, "And he's a good kid who had an awful upbringing and is now making some awful choices. Um, obviously!" which at least made the sergeant chuckle. But it's basically how I feel. Given how bad various parts of his life have been, it's still a success of sorts that he made it to 20 before doing something like this.
I'm not sure what the "I'm sorry" comment was about, but given prior information I assume that someone (possibly the friend who was with him) needed money he owed and he was going to find himself on the other end of a gun if he didn't come up with it. That's not an excuse of any sort, but I'm pretty sure it was his motivation.
I'm about to feed the girls the rest of last night's chicken and some new sides and then they'll put on costumes and I'll take them to the zoo for the rest of the day. The sergeant goes back on duty this evening and I'll check for updates and see if I can be any help then.
Very sorry, Thorn, that must be horrible in terms of both personal/household safety and the connection you have with Rowan.
I don't find the apology itself particularly creepy - just Rowan's way of saying "I wouldn't do this if I didn't feel super desperate."
I think he will take full responsibility for his part in things, just because he usually does. In some ways, choosing a target where there was a 100% chance he'd be identified and eventually caught tells me he wants that to happen, though obviously not enough to not do it. I dunno.
Also, my mom thinks Campbell's won't be pleased to hear that their new slow cooker sauces (Moroccan chicken with green olives, to be specific) is a favorite of young felons, but the girls are eating it too.
And 33.2 seems like an interesting twist on the OP. I'm glad that conversation is still going on. Emir's point about dry drunks also resonated with me.
Also, my mom thinks Campbell's won't be pleased to hear that their new slow cooker sauces (Moroccan chicken with green olives, to be specific) is a favorite of young felons
Snerk!
I too am glad no one was physically hurt and that your mom was a champion badass. The whole thing is obviously very upsetting. You're writing very calmly about it -- do you think it's going to catch up to you more later?
I'm very sorry as well to hear about this incident with Rowan. Just based on my experience of being kind of a fucked-up 20 year-old who committed a crime or two, I would say the apology sounds sincere and not creepy. Obviously, in the grand scheme of fucked-up-stuff-people-do-for-drug-money, this could have been a lot worse, but it is still an awfully scary and distressing thing to go through.
I hope that, since it sounds like there's no way he's going to avoid jail, and likely prison, you can stay in contact with him through all that, and do what you can to offer him support and encouragement afterwards. It's gonna be a bad couple of years no matter what.
Thorn, I'm sorry; this sounds all kinds of rough.
Jesus fuck, Thorn. My heart goes out to you.
But not so sorry that he won't do it, and he has to, so it's not really his fault. The apparently humane apology is the creepiest part of the whole episode.
"I'm basically a good person being buffeted by the winds of circumstance" is a common narrative for these guys. See also "I'm all about my kids." Sure you are. Hey, Ward Cleaver, watch your head as you go into the back of the car.
Gswift can mock me for being one of those excuse-making parent
What you said was perfectly normal. Now if you'd said something like how he has ADD I might have to laugh a little.
"I'm basically a good person being buffeted by the winds of circumstance" is a common narrative for these guys.
...pretty much all of us, punctuated by moments of self-loathing.
Except for the guy who died after his colon was perforated by a horse penis. He kind of had to own that one himself.
Buffetted about by _______, perforated by _________ .
43: Sure, but for most of us the "I'm a good person" internal narrative at least helps govern our actions to some extent.
Holy shit, Thorn. I'm glad everyone's ok, relatively speaking. Also, what everyone else said re: awesomeness of your mom.
46: Maybe they only reveal what they want you to see. And then show it all.
Thorn, I hope this all works out well for you. That is, achievement of some tranquility (or maybe closure?) in your relationship with Rowan. Your parents sound like they kick ass. You are lucky to have them, and vice versa.
39.2: Lee and I are not on the same page about that, though I'm not pushing at this point. She figures she's done with him now, that she put in (some) effort and he threw it all away, but that's her kneejerk reaction to many things. I figure we're family and he needs family and it can't hurt for him to eventually see someone model forgiveness with boundaries.
39.2: Lee and I are not on the same page about that, though I'm not pushing at this point. She figures she's done with him now, that she put in (some) effort and he threw it all away, but that's her kneejerk reaction to many things. I figure we're family and he needs family and it can't hurt for him to eventually see someone model forgiveness with boundaries.
Oh man, Thorn. Seconding what everyone else said. Very glad it wasn't worse; very sad for Rowan that he got to such a messed-up place; very focused on *you* and your family feeling safe and comfortable going forward. Thinking good thoughts.
I note that you & Lee STILL haven't had a date night, which maybe doesn't seem urgent in the face of !police! but might be more important long-term.
Shared danger can be a shortcut to intimacy. Like in "Speed".
Of course, they split up before the sequel.
I note that you & Lee STILL haven't had a date night
This was one of my first reactions too, irrational as that may be in the face of the events. But I was like, aww man, not fair that it interrupted a fun night!
My parents actually insisted we shouldn't hurry home and since there was sort of a manhunt in the neighborhood we were okay with that plan. We even had drinks with a fellow commenter and a few other professors after the show and had a really nice time, weird though the situation was. And then I barely slept and kept busy with the kids all day and now plan to collapse after a long, hot bath once they go to bed, I think.
I did check with the sergeant tonight and a felony warrant will follow him anywhere, which I knew, and there will be a detective writing a report tomorrow and they hope to pin down who the other guy is. The cards are being used hours away from us, or were until my mom canceled them, and I've been able to give them a lot of information about his family and friends and whereabouts in the recent past. They're sort of hoping he'll text me that he's sorry or something that will establish guilt, but we'll see.
I have been having unpleasant flashbacks to the worst days when I was being stalked by my stupid ex, when I was afraid to do anything or go anywhere completely alone and exposed. It was weird to have the Kroger parking lot feel hostile again. I'm not sure I believe he's with the credit cards, but I don't think I'm a specific target for anything more. We'll see.
And Nia checked in about it twice today, asking why the police had been here. I reiterated the story my dad had given her, that Rowan had taken some money from my mom and they called the police because that's the wrong thing to do and he needs to face the consequences. She thought that was a reasonable scenario and volunteered that she didn't even have any bad dreams last night, which police involvement probably would have triggered in the past. She has grown up so much lately. I wish Rowan would have gotten intervention so much earlier than he did, but that's not how it worked out.
Just talked to the detective, sent him links to a million people's facebook pages and how they connect to Rowan. The detective confirmed that "robbing mom first" is something they see a fair amount and hopes they won't decide to try anything on a stranger when the money runs out and they get more desperate. They're definitely taking it seriously and he had a lot of names to ask me if I could place. But that's what they're doing right now, just trying to pin down who the friend might be and whether they're going somewhere with a purpose or just heading away.
Just venting here because I can, I had a long talk with my mom, who's still processing things but still in good shape, and I'm not doing so well and can't talk to Lee about it because she's in (understandable!) Righteous Indignation mode and doesn't want to talk about anything more nuanced than that, but I am really grieving. Apparently much of the long conversation was about how to get over an abusive childhood, with both men talking about how you can never hit or hurt a child, and Rowan kept talking about how I've been the only person who's always been there for him and how grateful he is for all I've done for him and the role model I've been and that maybe I'll never be able to understand why he didn't feel he could live with us. (My mom assumes because he'd be teased for having queer moms, but I think it was more a self-sabotage comment.)
I don't really have anything to say about any of this, just that I feel sort of queasy and weepy about it. The next step is that my mom will have to look at surveillance videos from the places they used the credit cards to make sure it's still them using them and I probably won't be called in for that because I don't know enough of his friends to provide useful ID.
I've talked a little to other foster parent friends about this, several of whom have BTDT in certain respects, and I'm just so sad and unsettled and really hoping this won't be a suicide-by-cop thing or something worse. It's just all creeping me out a bit but mostly just making me want to cry and cry and cry, which I actually haven't done yet. Ugh.
My heart goes out to you, Thorn, for whatever that's worth.
Depends on how old you are, your blood type, history of smoking, and a few other factors.
I am so sorry to hear this stuff.
I'll echo others that your mom is a badass. Reminds me of a saying that "Nothing is so gentle as real strength.Nothing is so strong as gentleness."