Re: Medical Bits

1

Maybe, it's not too late for misoprostol.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 10-30-14 8:12 AM
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Okay, I'll troll. There's some dude in a prison in Belgium whose petition for assisted suicide was granted, because he has a mental illness that the Courts deem incurable.

Yay or nay?


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 10-30-14 8:22 AM
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I would consider sending that private message. I travel in slightly different circles, but it was sort of refreshing to see someone on a foster group saying, "Hey, I'm totally wiped out with all these little ones but they're calling about my child's baby sibling and I don't quite want to say no" and people actually said, "You know, you have to take what you can handle and what you're dealing with now into consideration. If their mom is young there may be more kids, and so maybe the baby could go to a placement that would be able to handle that situation if it arose." Usually there are so many baby-crazy foster parents that it's just "Babies, hooray!" and it was nice to see more nuance and support for whatever decision gets made.


Posted by: | Link to this comment | 10-30-14 8:42 AM
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Bostongirl: "Mental illness" is too broad a term to be useful here. I can imagine certain types of MI that don't sufficiently impinge on rationality to effect how I would feel about this. For instance, that (briefly) described in the link. The man is apparently rational but feels overwhelmed by his urges to behave in a way that he finds abhorrent.


Posted by: marcel | Link to this comment | 10-30-14 8:43 AM
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As long as this computer keeps forgetting my personal info, no one will ever guess that I wrote 3!


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 10-30-14 8:43 AM
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4: I think that he was claiming sociopathy--not sure. I'm the last person to say that this would apply to most mental illnesses.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 10-30-14 8:46 AM
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3: Yeah, me too. You can frame it with an apology about how you don't know if the suggestion is offensive to her beliefs, but abortion is available, and seems like it might be a good choice for her and her older child. I think you're at risk of getting an angry, hostile response if you hit someone with strong pro-life feelings, but the possible gain in being supportive if she needs the support is probably worth the risk.

If you wanted to be a real mensch about it, you could offer the suggestion publicly. That would almost definitely get you some hostile blowback, but it's support for the next person in that situation as well.


Posted by: Lizardbreath | Link to this comment | 10-30-14 8:47 AM
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What are the stats on the percent of abortions performed on woen who already have children? Isn't it like 2/3rds or something? I suppose I can google.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 10-30-14 8:56 AM
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60%. I don't know if I have the balls to say something publicly.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 10-30-14 8:59 AM
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I'm willing to publicly say that 60% is like 2/3rds or something. Not as much as 66% is like 2/3rds, but still 2/3rds is a close enough approximation of 60% for casual speech.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-30-14 9:02 AM
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Three fifths? In general supporting 3 and 7, but there's no need to go public at this point. She might be privately considering the option and not want it talked about.


Posted by: chris y | Link to this comment | 10-30-14 9:08 AM
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12

I composed this, but haven't sent it yet:

"I saw your post about being pregnant. I hope what I'm going to say isn't offensive to your beliefs. Abortion is still legal in the US, and there is a Planned Parenthood clinic still open in south Austin. It's much, much cheaper than a pregnancy, and much less medically intrusive. And you'd be in good company - 60% of abortions are performed on women who are already mothers, who are worried about being able to parent their existing children.

If you decide to stay pregnant, I think you'll have a wonderful outcome and be really happy with your decision. If you decide not to, you can tell people that you miscarried, and feel good that you've made a decision that was right for your circumstances. The phone number to the Austin clinic is 512-276-8000. Again, I'm sorry if this is unwelcome."


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 10-30-14 9:20 AM
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That sounds great to me. And agreed with chris y that you should do it privately. If this had been suggested publicly, and then she "miscarried", there would be a lot more people who might question that.


Posted by: Blume | Link to this comment | 10-30-14 9:22 AM
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14

I would add "and wish you all the best!" or something like that to the end of your last sentence, but I think it's an awesome response and could also be an important one.


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 10-30-14 9:23 AM
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I tacked on "If you don't have friends or family who would support you in this, let me know - my schedule is flexible" and sent it. I'm impulsive.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 10-30-14 9:24 AM
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I totally think you should send the message (privately).


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 10-30-14 9:25 AM
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15: Hooray!


Posted by: | Link to this comment | 10-30-14 9:27 AM
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18

Yay, heebie!


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 10-30-14 9:27 AM
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19

12. Good email, come what may.


Posted by: chris y | Link to this comment | 10-30-14 9:28 AM
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Derp, 17 was me. (I wouldn't have expected checking then unchecking "Remember personal info?" to clear the name and e-mail address fields.)


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 10-30-14 9:28 AM
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21

Great message, right on for sending it.


Posted by: dairy queen | Link to this comment | 10-30-14 9:28 AM
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22

15 is awesome.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 10-30-14 9:29 AM
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23

Ugh, I feel all confrontational and mixed. Like, suppose she really just wanted positive support in favor of continuing her pregnancy and was getting exactly that from the thread. (She did ask for positive thoughts from the group, or something like that.)


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 10-30-14 9:29 AM
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Yay for heebie!


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 10-30-14 9:29 AM
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Good for you, heebs. Absolutely the right call.

In 3 days, you should ring her doorbell and ask if she's ready to go. Just in case she's dithering.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 10-30-14 9:30 AM
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And this town is small enough that it will be easy to run into her socially. Granted, I think I'm over a decade older than she is, and no one would be surprised that I'm left-leaning, but still this could have a long tail.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 10-30-14 9:31 AM
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Heebie, nicely done. Another place in Austin is here should you have a need for another reference in the future. Just in case PP is too politically loaded.


Posted by: ydnew | Link to this comment | 10-30-14 9:31 AM
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28

Or, I picture her having the baby and labeling me "the one who suggested she kill her baby."


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 10-30-14 9:33 AM
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29

suppose she really just wanted positive support in favor of continuing her pregnancy

heebie, the e-mail is kind and supportive of either continuing the pregnancy or not, so you shouldn't worry. It's a really good e-mail.


Posted by: jms | Link to this comment | 10-30-14 9:33 AM
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30

Thanks all. At the moment I'm very glad that FB has the feature that lets you know when the other person has read your message.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 10-30-14 9:38 AM
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31

Which she hasn't, yet.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 10-30-14 9:38 AM
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32

How about now?


Posted by: Eggplant | Link to this comment | 10-30-14 9:39 AM
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33

12 is awesome, and 15 is awesomer.


Posted by: Lizardbreath | Link to this comment | 10-30-14 9:40 AM
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34

29 gets it exactly right.


Posted by: Eggplant | Link to this comment | 10-30-14 9:40 AM
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35

Since we've solved that one, I have an ethical dilemma. Since Selah can't say "kitties" properly but wants to talk about them and how much she loves them and wants to hold them all the time, how wrong/awesome would it be to teach her to say "kitties, hooray!" as shorthand for that? I mean, eventually she'd be able to say it properly and so I'm not JUST fucking with her.


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 10-30-14 9:47 AM
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36

32: nope!


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 10-30-14 9:48 AM
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37

35: You're not trying to teach her what "shorthand" means in this, are you? Otherwise, great!


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 10-30-14 9:49 AM
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35: You have my blessing.


Posted by: Lizardbreath | Link to this comment | 10-30-14 9:49 AM
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39

35. Suggest you get agreement from Lee before you go ahead with that, but it would be awesome.


Posted by: chris y | Link to this comment | 10-30-14 9:50 AM
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40

Can you construct a good reason for her to talk about forks and kitties in the same conversation?


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 10-30-14 9:52 AM
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41

There's no just about it; fucking with your children has to be one of the greatest joys of parenthood.


Posted by: Eggplant | Link to this comment | 10-30-14 9:53 AM
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42

I could certainly introduce a frog and a fox, either or both of which would work.


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 10-30-14 9:56 AM
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43

35 is adorable. A friend's first word was frog, with some interpretation in the parents' part.


Posted by: ydnew | Link to this comment | 10-30-14 9:59 AM
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44

Or, I picture her having the baby and labeling me "the one who suggested she kill her baby."

Just in case, if she has the baby, you should always stare at it menacingly.

No, it's good that you had the conviction to write what you did, and it was very gently phrased.


Posted by: Mister Smearcase | Link to this comment | 10-30-14 10:00 AM
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45

Also it's a bit...something...that if she happened to decide, yes, abort, and decided to take me up on my offer in 15, then I have to say "FYI, I'm currently super-duper pregnant. Hope that doesn't throw you!" (It might be perversely funny to walk by abortion-protesters into a clinic, in my current state.)

(I think the odds of her taking me up on the offer are exceedingly low. I assume she'll be horrifically offended, though, and that this is an exercise in Doing the Right Thing Regardless.)


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 10-30-14 10:06 AM
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Heebie, you're a good person.

35: Not a parent so I might be a bit off, but my understanding is that there's a moral imperative to fuck-with your kids. You're doing it "for the lolz", and for the future.


Posted by: dalriata | Link to this comment | 10-30-14 10:12 AM
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47

(Now I'm looking at her profile. She's actually from Spain, and maybe 23-24 years old, and very outgoing-seeming. Boy would this be an odd collaboration, but all of a sudden it feels much more like a mentorship thing than anything else.)


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 10-30-14 10:15 AM
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(Now that she's from Spain, the bit about "abortions are still legal in the US" seems condescending rather than just a reminder. Perhaps I should walk away from the computer for a spell.)(Can you tell I don't like confrontations?)


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 10-30-14 10:17 AM
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49

If she's from Spain in her early 20s I very much doubt she'll be offended by your email. Very secular country, that.


Posted by: chris y | Link to this comment | 10-30-14 10:18 AM
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50

Honestly, if she's from Spain, she may genuinely be under the impression that abortions are de facto illegal in Texas.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 10-30-14 10:19 AM
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51

Huh, good points.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 10-30-14 10:21 AM
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52

50 is not, in fact, that crazy an impression, for much of Texas.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 10-30-14 10:22 AM
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53

Just also wanted to agree with everyone saying that the message sent in 12/15 is really amazing. I can see how that could be a hard to send, since you really have no clue how someone might respond to it. But I still think it's incredibly supportive. Awesome.


Posted by: Rance | Link to this comment | 10-30-14 10:28 AM
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54

(Oh, and it could always go to that weird FB spam folder that no one ever checks, since she and I are not friends. She may not see it at all.)


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 10-30-14 10:32 AM
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Oh, yeah, 54 is very accurate. You can tell her in the group that you sent her a PM and she should check her Other folder, though. That's common, isn't it?


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 10-30-14 10:35 AM
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Good idea, just did. And it sounds like Ace is jabbering and awake, after a very pukey night and epic three hour nap.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 10-30-14 10:43 AM
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All resolved:

I am not against abortion whatsoever, however the thought that I even was thinking about having abortion with my daughter makes my heart hurt. I couldn't do it! I have many friends who have and I'm in support them in their decision this is my personal choice. But thank you for putting it out there and being there for someone you don't know in the way you offered yourself to me

and I replied:

I am so glad you are self-aware and introspective enough to know yourself in this situation. In that case, congratulations!! I wish you all the best.

Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 10-30-14 11:40 AM
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58

Well done you, graciously responded to her, the state of Texas should be proud of the both of you as exemplary residents.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 10-30-14 11:43 AM
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59

I feel very relieved that she's making this choice of her own volition.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 10-30-14 11:45 AM
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60

And all the supportive-baby people are right that lots of people do well with unexpected and close-together children, of course. It sounds like the conversation went really well, though! That's awesome!


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 10-30-14 11:48 AM
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That's exactly Sally and Newt's separation, if I've got it right -- 15 months at conception is 2 years at birth. I would say it's a good age difference for a high-conflict high-engagement relationship; they transition pretty smoothly between punching each other and singing the Pokemon theme song in close harmony.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 10-30-14 11:59 AM
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Right now Hawaii and Pokey are (still) more conflict than pals. It may just be their personalities at this stage.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 10-30-14 12:06 PM
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63

close harmony
Oh man, heebie, you have to make your children form a barbershop quartet.


Posted by: Eggplant | Link to this comment | 10-30-14 12:06 PM
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Good for you for sending her the message.

It sucks that people feel so uncomfortable saying "you have options: abortion, adoption, or carrying to term."

That should be normal.

Correction: that is normal. But the discussion isn't.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 10-30-14 12:38 PM
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I have great admiration for those women who publicly state that they have had an abortion. It shouldn't be a big deal to state it, but it can be.

Needs to be normalized.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 10-30-14 12:39 PM
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66

Rock on heebert. You are a mensch, as it were.


Posted by: k-sky | Link to this comment | 10-30-14 12:43 PM
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67

heebie, you barely met my exceptionally high expectations for you.


Posted by: peep | Link to this comment | 10-30-14 12:47 PM
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OTOH, anonymous Spanish woman is getting the peep medal of honor.


Posted by: peep | Link to this comment | 10-30-14 12:49 PM
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69

67: you sound like your mom.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 10-30-14 1:11 PM
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69: thanks, heebie. she's my hero.


Posted by: peep | Link to this comment | 10-30-14 1:17 PM
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Oh man, heebie, you have to make your children form a barbershop quartet.

Canonically, when they turn eight, you can send them away to get trained up into one o' they jazz bands in the West End.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 10-30-14 1:23 PM
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unfogged babysplosion s/b ah, 'tis Merriam the hired girl, the time of her shame is upon her again.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 10-30-14 1:23 PM
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73

Great, now I'm stuck on which Cold Comfort Farm character all the regulars resemble most.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 10-30-14 1:24 PM
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74

That's how we make sure there'll always be Starkadders on unfogged.com.


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 10-30-14 1:25 PM
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75

I saw something nasty at the Mineshaft!


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 10-30-14 1:27 PM
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73: I could swear Dsquared once said that he had a fundamental feeling of economic security because he could always go back to Wales to scranlet the turnips on the family farm. Or maybe he brought up the farm and I brought up the scranletting.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 10-30-14 1:29 PM
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maybe he brought up the farm and I brought up the scranletting.

'Tis often the way, with women. A man do care for his land, but women will try to trap him with scranletting and other such captious concerns.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 10-30-14 1:34 PM
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78

"But what about the spring onion harvest?!!"


Posted by: dairy queen | Link to this comment | 10-30-14 1:53 PM
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79

THE WATER VOLES SUPPORT ME IN EMAIL.


Posted by: Urk | Link to this comment | 10-30-14 1:55 PM
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80


Hurray for heebie.


Posted by: knecht ruprecht | Link to this comment | 10-30-14 2:01 PM
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81

57 made me weep (a few) real tears right here at my desk. Hooray Heebie! Hooray sweet AnonoSpaniard!


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 10-30-14 3:14 PM
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74 made me move my finger toward a nonexistent "like" button.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 10-30-14 3:48 PM
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83

Great, now I need to go read Cold Comfort Farm in order to follow this thread.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 10-30-14 3:49 PM
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84

No, no, you need to read it for its own sake.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 10-30-14 3:57 PM
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85

It's very tempting, although I should probably start writing the two talks I'm supposed to give next week.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 10-30-14 4:02 PM
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86

It will improve your prose style and your moral fiber.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 10-30-14 4:04 PM
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87

Mercury: Are you saving that one I sentchya? It would have dovetailed nicely with this one, I would think.


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 10-30-14 4:49 PM
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73:
Flora Poste: Heebie Geebie
Aunt Ada Doom: bob mcmanus
Judith Starkadder: LizardBreath
Amos Starkadder: ogged
Mybug: Neb Nosflow
Seth Starkadder: Moby Hick
Adam Lambsbreath: chris y
Reuben Starkadder: Sifu Tweety
Meriam Beetle: Apostropher
Earl P. Neck: Robert Halford (PBUH)
Mrs. Mary Smiling: Tedra
Urk: Urple
Dr. Adolph Mudel: Knecht Ruprecht
Charles Fairford: Rob Helpy-Chalk
Elfine: Tia
Richard Hawk-Monitor: x. trapnel
Mrs Murther: essear
Mark Dolour: NickS
Big Business: Natilo Paennim


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 10-30-14 5:00 PM
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89

'foggetariat: The Quivering Brethren


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 10-30-14 5:02 PM
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90

88 is lovely, though I'd like to see ajay's take too.


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 10-30-14 6:33 PM
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91

Honestly didn't know it was a book. Will consider picking that up!


Posted by: Turgid Jacobian | Link to this comment | 10-30-14 6:39 PM
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92

It's also a movie. Same female lead as Underworld.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-30-14 6:45 PM
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93

I know, Mobes. I like her.


Posted by: Turgid Jacobian | Link to this comment | 10-30-14 6:53 PM
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94

88!


Posted by: Nworb Werdna | Link to this comment | 10-31-14 12:58 AM
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95

Is the book Cold Comfort Farm good? I thought the movie sucked ass.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 10-31-14 1:10 AM
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The book is profoundly wonderful -- witty wise and disenchanting


Posted by: Nworb Werdna | Link to this comment | 10-31-14 2:23 AM
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Yeah, the book is great.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 10-31-14 3:45 AM
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98


Now I need to read Cold Comfort Farm to know whether to take umbrage at 88.


Posted by: knecht ruprecht | Link to this comment | 10-31-14 4:36 AM
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99

You could watch the movie. Flora wears skin-tight leather.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-31-14 5:22 AM
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100

Tedra as Mrs Smiling is perfect.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 10-31-14 5:22 AM
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98: It's very flattering. You're a psychiatrist, who successfully brings about a transference of my obsessive love for my son into first an obsession with you, and then an obsession with old churches, as a nicely convenient thing to be obsessed with.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 10-31-14 5:25 AM
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No, knecht, you've definitely earned that one.


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 10-31-14 5:25 AM
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103

Although arguably he could have been her friend the bra connoisseur.


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 10-31-14 5:27 AM
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arguably he could have been her friend the bra connoisseur

My aversion to bras is amply documented in TFA.


Posted by: knecht ruprecht | Link to this comment | 10-31-14 5:36 AM
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95: Really? It's kind of a chick flick, forgive the sexism, but within the genre of Roaring-Twenties-comedies-of-manners I thought it was fine.


Posted by: Cyrus | Link to this comment | 10-31-14 6:03 AM
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88 is unnervingly close to my own (partial) list, well done Natilo. I would have Halford as Amos - "There'll be NO BUTTER IN HELL! And no grain products in Heaven!"
L. as Flora Poste - "I am a relative newcomer and I am slightly concerned that you people all seem to be nuts".
Barry Freed as Earl P. Neck.

Claude?


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 10-31-14 6:43 AM
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I'm a little bemused by Moby as Seth -- not that I've met him, but I somehow can't see him lounging around in a smouldering, vaguely sexually threatening kind of way. Admittedly, it's a hard role to carry off in a text based medium.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 10-31-14 6:49 AM
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108

Yeah, surely Apostropher has to be Seth.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 10-31-14 6:52 AM
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109

Ooh, yes, that works.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 10-31-14 6:53 AM
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110

I could try to smoulder.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-31-14 6:54 AM
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111

106: L. is not at all a newcomer. And where does that leave me?


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 10-31-14 6:55 AM
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112

I'll know if it's working if women move away from me on the bus.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-31-14 6:55 AM
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113

Can I be Bertie Wooster?


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 10-31-14 6:56 AM
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111: your role in the babysplosion makes you Merriam the hired girl. See above.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 10-31-14 6:58 AM
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115

We still need a Micah - "mightiest of the cousins, a ruined giant of a man, paralysed in one knee and wrist" - which clearly has to be Von Wafer.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 10-31-14 7:00 AM
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65
Needs to be normalized.

Agreed, but I'm not sure what I should do about it myself. My wife got pregnant last year, it was an intended pregnancy but tests for a serious birth defect came back positive, we aborted. I've wound up telling more people about it than her, just in conversation. It was early enough that we hadn't told anyone other than our immediate families that she was pregnant anyways, so there wasn't much lying involved. And we and our friends are definitely left-leaning and proud of it, she wasn't hiding it out of fear of disdain. At most, out of fear of social awkwardness and unpleasant reminders. Are we obligated to face those to do our part to normalize that discussion? The "no" answer seems obvious, and yet sometimes I've wondered that myself.


Posted by: Calvin Coolidge | Link to this comment | 10-31-14 1:31 PM
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I thought h-g as Meriam and apo as Seth were too obvious.


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 10-31-14 4:56 PM
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Mark Dolour: NickS

Can someone explain this reference as well for me? Wikipedia only tells me that he's a farmhand who was omitted from the stage version (though mentioned several times as a running joke).


Posted by: NickS | Link to this comment | 10-31-14 6:10 PM
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It's perfect. Mark also didn't get references.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 10-31-14 6:25 PM
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120

Hmm, perhaps that should have been parsimon then.


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 11- 1-14 8:57 AM
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