Re: Loyalty

1

To me loyalty involves taking the interests of the other person seriously, for values of seriously ranging from merely considering them to elevating their interests above your own (which is a very bad kind of loyalty). It also means sticking by them when they are a pain in the ass to be around, like when they are depressed or grumpy or being driven mad by stress.


Posted by: togolosh | Link to this comment | 02-10-15 8:38 AM
horizontal rule
2

To me, loyalty means 3 cents off a gallon of gas.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 02-10-15 8:39 AM
horizontal rule
3

To me loyalty means being true to your school, just like you would to your girl.


Posted by: peep | Link to this comment | 02-10-15 8:45 AM
horizontal rule
4

The two friends I had in grad school with crazy charisma are both in sales. I imagine they're very good at their jobs.


Posted by: ydnew | Link to this comment | 02-10-15 8:49 AM
horizontal rule
5

I didn't know anybody in grad school with charisma.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 02-10-15 8:51 AM
horizontal rule
6

5: Because you didn't really know yourself back then.


Posted by: peep | Link to this comment | 02-10-15 8:57 AM
horizontal rule
7

Just as long as you're making your inner-circle friends take loyalty oaths, heebster. Otherwise, no one will think you really take loyalty seriously.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 02-10-15 9:00 AM
horizontal rule
8

Everybody cut your palm and smear the blood against your computer screen on the count of three.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 02-10-15 9:01 AM
horizontal rule
9

Are loyalty oaths still a thing at universities? I can remember professors talking about how they had to sign a loyalty oath (to the U.S.) before they could get paid. This happened in various states that fought a war to avoid being loyal to the United States.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 02-10-15 9:02 AM
horizontal rule
10

9: Was a dust-up over that in California not terribly long ago, don't know if they changed things since. I have a vague recollection of some anti-Communist oath having only recently been discontinued at Texas when I got there (early 90s) but I may well be remembering wrong .


Posted by: potchkeh | Link to this comment | 02-10-15 9:11 AM
horizontal rule
11

9: I signed one at NYU, in . . . 2006? The situation in which we signed it was really a masterclass. Unlike everything else, it didn't come in a HR packet for new faculty -- senior faculty passed them out quickly and asked for them back quickly at a school meeting. Some quick handwaving "It's just about the Constitution." I was totally astounded they were able to get that done without hours of self-admiring handwringing. Apparently it was NYS law -- and it didn't say anything about communism, just that we swore? promised? to uphold the Constitution.


Posted by: oudemia | Link to this comment | 02-10-15 9:21 AM
horizontal rule
12

We have to agree to the mission statement, which is very carefully worded so that a secular person can feel like they are not being compromised, by the skin of their teeth. Something like "you agree to be part of a community that provides an education which is given perspective by the Christian faith." Sure, that seems fair.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 02-10-15 9:22 AM
horizontal rule
13

My loyalty is a lot like togolosh's in 1. It's annoying when it becomes obvious that each friend is committed at a different level. I've both been the friend who's been there for my friends, but they're scarce when I need support, but I've also had to figure out how I can clarify that [someone] is an acquaintance, please, no more quirky gifts. No, that event sounds fun--go enjoy it!


Posted by: Mooseking | Link to this comment | 02-10-15 9:38 AM
horizontal rule
14

It also means sticking by them when they are a pain in the ass to be around

I've been thinking a lot about interpersonal loyalty lately; who's in and out of the circle, how far does it extend (that is, what does it take to decide that you're not loyal to someone anymore); to what extent does it have to be reciprocal. And have realized that I have no rational thoughts on the subject. I've got some friends who are difficult enough that I'm not dead sure why I maintain the relationship, but it is clearly not optional to me -- they're on the list of people who I will treat like family, and a whole lot of annoying behavior won't change that (while I will make much less of an effort to put myself out for people whose company I enjoy a lot more).


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 02-10-15 9:45 AM
horizontal rule
15

12: "Yes, I do live in the United States."


Posted by: TJ | Link to this comment | 02-10-15 9:46 AM
horizontal rule
16

12. I can see how a secular person could live with that. An observant adherent of any non-Christian faith would, however, be shit out of luck.


Posted by: chris y | Link to this comment | 02-10-15 10:22 AM
horizontal rule
17

We do have an Islamic guy in the department, actually, so somehow he chokes it down. And a few Jews. But if you're living here and not wildly Christian, you're already taking things with a massive grain of salt.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 02-10-15 10:24 AM
horizontal rule
18

(The few Jews are campus-wide, not in the math department.)


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 02-10-15 10:25 AM
horizontal rule
19

But if you're living here and not wildly Christian, you're already taking things with a massive grain of salt.

This gives the wrong impression. Most people here are not wildly Christian. And all parts of the country are sprinkled with wildly religious people here and there.

Maybe the difference is that the wildly Christian people here think that everybody is at least substantially Christian, and everybody else coddles that belief? I don't know exactly.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 02-10-15 10:29 AM
horizontal rule
20

16: I don't know about that; the hypothetical observant non-Christian would already be working in a college named after a Christian sect and presumably with some formal affiliation with that sect. At that point, the wording Heebie gives seems to just be explicitly recognizing what the observant non-Christian is actually doing: I could imagine someone being too observant to take the job, but if they were willing to take the job, signing the statement doesn't seem more onerous.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 02-10-15 10:38 AM
horizontal rule
21

treat like family

This is a pretty big range, does not necessarily imply returning phone calls or speaking to the individual.

I don't know that it's possible to spell out in advance just where is the limit of behavior that leads to severed ties. IME, spite or contempt are not necessarily enough to cut the person off. I think the most difficult situations are mental illness or addiction, where intent and behavior are distinct.

Where intent and behavior are in harmony and there's something ugly there, that's when it's easier to say no more of this. But intent is a very slippery thing, I think actually pretty rare. Focus is necessary to maintain intent, even if the intent is to lie for shallow gain or something. A lack of focus is common, so how to assess intent when there's only a seething miasma of incoherent motives. Which is to say I don't know either.


Posted by: lw | Link to this comment | 02-10-15 10:51 AM
horizontal rule
22

||

My chair signed me up last semester to attend a series of lunches this semester, where first generation students are supposed to connect and commiserate with faculty who are also first generation. I feel like a total shmuck attending this, although I did ask the organizer if I should still attend, given how dissimilar my actual life was. FREE LUNCH!

|>


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 02-10-15 10:55 AM
horizontal rule
23

A nice lunch?


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 02-10-15 11:00 AM
horizontal rule
24

I think the most difficult situations are mental illness or addiction, where intent and behavior are distinct.

In practice this is often murky. How much of the behavior is due to a mental illness, how much is personality and at what point is the disorder of "personality", e.g. borderline personality disorder, more properly viewed as an illness of regulation.

I haven't talked to my Dad for nearly a year, because he's done some pretty crazily abusive things.

How much of that is underlying depression, alcohol abuse, personality factors which make it hard for him to accept the reality of his life etc.?

My Dad's liver is failing too, and I think that the toxins in your brain that your liver would have cleared out make you act all weird. That last one is purely medical, I guess.

I'm really struggling with whether I want him at my wedding, if he makes it that long and whether I can have my mother come without him.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 02-10-15 11:10 AM
horizontal rule
25

I feel like a total shmuck attending this, although I did ask the organizer if I should still attend, given how dissimilar my actual life was.

I recently got invited to be on a Latino Issues-type panel at the undergraduate university, and I let them know that I'd be happy to attend and that I do work with a lot of Latino clients on criminal-law and migrant-worker issues, but that I myself am not Latino. And then they were like, oh, never mind.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 02-10-15 11:36 AM
horizontal rule
26

Did they somehow manage to get you an invitation without knowing your name?


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 02-10-15 11:44 AM
horizontal rule
27

Sally's Spanish teacher is an Argentinian-American with a name establishing that she is of Austrian ancestry. You can't tell by names.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 02-10-15 11:45 AM
horizontal rule
28

26: Alberto Fujimori would like a word with you.


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 02-10-15 11:48 AM
horizontal rule
29

It is true that you can't tell with complete accuracy, but some names carry a very, very small probability of being used by a Latino.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 02-10-15 11:49 AM
horizontal rule
30

28: "Alberto" is a Latino name.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 02-10-15 11:50 AM
horizontal rule
31

29: Martin Sheen?


Posted by: peep | Link to this comment | 02-10-15 11:54 AM
horizontal rule
32

O'Higgins?


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 02-10-15 11:55 AM
horizontal rule
33

I'm just wondering how Stanley got on the list is all.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 02-10-15 11:57 AM
horizontal rule
34

33: Guessing -- on a list of students that speak Spanish.


Posted by: peep | Link to this comment | 02-10-15 11:58 AM
horizontal rule
35

a list of students that speak Spanish.

The surveillance state has gone too far.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 02-10-15 12:02 PM
horizontal rule
36

A nice lunch?

I was expecting our extremely standard cold cuts on croissants sandwich bar catering service, but it was actually fajitas. Which seemed a little...pointed?


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 02-10-15 12:03 PM
horizontal rule
37

We always use round tortilla for fajitas.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 02-10-15 12:09 PM
horizontal rule
38

Bostoniangirl that sounds like a really tough call.

I've found that I tend to put people in either the "100% loyal, value their interests >= my own" box (usually about 6 people at any given time), or the "wouldn't go farther out of my way than I would for a random person off the street" box. Then when it turns out that someone in the former is only valuing my interests at 0.7-or-whatever x theirs, I feel betrayed and cut them off completely. It would probably be worthwhile to hit up the Discretization Section at my local Target and get some more bins.


Posted by: torque | Link to this comment | 02-10-15 12:11 PM
horizontal rule
39

I like fajitas fine except for the peppers. And everybody seems to think fajitas should have a ton of peppers.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 02-10-15 12:13 PM
horizontal rule
40

If you don't read the accompanying text, this is the best photo series I've seen a while.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 02-10-15 12:16 PM
horizontal rule
41

Those are great, even with the text.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 02-10-15 12:33 PM
horizontal rule
42

For Point 4--fear of personal attacks--why do you think women are so inclined to criticize each other? Where does that come from? Why is it socially so accepted?

Is this Paltrow's meta-commentary on the spat with Martha Stewart?

Further wisdom: "Feedback can never tell you anything about you. It can only tell you about the person giving the feedback."


Posted by: lw | Link to this comment | 02-10-15 1:28 PM
horizontal rule
43

The Inner Mentor is the older, wiser you. It's you twenty or thirty years into the future, your more fully expressed, authentic self

She stole that from Matthew McCaughney!


Posted by: peep | Link to this comment | 02-10-15 2:00 PM
horizontal rule
44

Actually also the lemma about feedback:
Wooderson also uses marijuana to socialize with people. His life philosophy is to just keep livin'


Posted by: lw | Link to this comment | 02-10-15 2:20 PM
horizontal rule
45

40: Good to know that the Japanese authorities are fully prepared to deal with the coming Furry Apocalypse.


Posted by: MAE | Link to this comment | 02-10-15 2:32 PM
horizontal rule
46

Speaking of the Furry Apocalypse, I noticed that I hardly ever get spam for viagra or porn anymore. Did somebody kill the guy doing all that or something? If so, can I send them the addresses of the people who keep trying to sell me knockout mice and antibodies and protein-whatsits?


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 02-10-15 2:52 PM
horizontal rule
47

Did somebody kill the guy doing all that or something?

Thanks, Ukrainian armed forces!


Posted by: Todd | Link to this comment | 02-10-15 4:17 PM
horizontal rule
48

Are knockout mice for snakes trying to date rape other snakes?


Posted by: Turgid Jacobian | Link to this comment | 02-10-15 4:20 PM
horizontal rule
49

No, they're just immensely appealing to other mice. Similar mouse variants are known as 'bombshell' mice.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 02-10-15 4:31 PM
horizontal rule
50

Wait. What animal is this? Help! Help! The Wild Things have escaped!


Posted by: E. Messily | Link to this comment | 02-10-15 8:21 PM
horizontal rule
51

I couldn't figure out a couple of them.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 02-10-15 8:30 PM
horizontal rule
52

That one and #7.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 02-10-15 8:31 PM
horizontal rule
53

7 is clearly an orangutan/dragon hybrid. Rare, like the liger, but that's why it's in the zoo.


Posted by: E. Messily | Link to this comment | 02-10-15 8:35 PM
horizontal rule
54

Ligers exist in the wild. You don't see them much because racism leads them to try and pass as lion.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 02-10-15 8:36 PM
horizontal rule
55

Apparently, Tiger vs. Lion is the Superman vs. Batman of the natural world. At least the talk page seems to be full of that kind of thing.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 02-10-15 8:41 PM
horizontal rule
56

I want to troll that page now.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 02-10-15 8:47 PM
horizontal rule
57

Careful, you might lose tenure.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 02-10-15 9:05 PM
horizontal rule
58

Once again the internet impresses me with the passion that people can have for really trivial things*. I mean, I know philosophy and all so it's not that people find them fascinating that surprises me as much as how furious people are getting in that talk section.

And you should absolutely start trolling it. That is what trolling is for. I recommend replacing all the lion and tiger images with pictures of lion and tiger furries.

*Like the strange proliferation of forums for people to discuss the finer points of shaving. There are just so many of them that it's ridiculous.


Posted by: MHPH | Link to this comment | 02-10-15 9:14 PM
horizontal rule
59

I don't even have a tenure.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 02-10-15 9:22 PM
horizontal rule
60

On shaving, the internet did teach me that you can strop a cartridge razor on an old pair of pants. Cut my razor blade purchases in half.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 02-10-15 9:25 PM
horizontal rule
61

58.2: I recommend changing "Gaekwad" so that it links to the Irish_people page.


Posted by: Todd | Link to this comment | 02-10-15 9:28 PM
horizontal rule
62

58.3: or youtube enactment of massages, reiki, etc meant to comfort the viewer as recipient. Overlaps with ASMR, also odd. A lot of touch-lonesome people.

Or narcissists, or people with tough stubble.


Posted by: clew | Link to this comment | 02-10-15 9:35 PM
horizontal rule
63

On shaving, the internet did teach me that you can strop a cartridge razor on an old pair of pants. Cut my razor blade purchases in half.

But doubled your pants purchases?


Posted by: knecht ruprecht | Link to this comment | 02-11-15 6:35 AM
horizontal rule
64

The part of the pants by the ankle serves no legal or thermoregulatory purpose (assuming you wear socks). I just use that.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 02-11-15 6:45 AM
horizontal rule
65

On the razor thing, I tried to switch to a safety razor, but I could never find a blade that didn't irritate my skin. And then I discovered Food Lion offers a generic razor and razor blade cartridges, which are like one-third the cost of the Gillette 43-blade gel-coated contraptions. So now I use the generics, which work great, but I had no idea I could be making them even more cost-effective by rubbing the cartridges on old pants.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 02-11-15 7:24 AM
horizontal rule
66

It's just the same motion of shaving, but backward. A couple of dozen swipes will do it.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 02-11-15 7:26 AM
horizontal rule
67

No one knew his name. But he was notorious in several Squirrel Hill watering holes. He'd come into the bar, sometimes drink a beer or three (or sometimes Rusty Nails), order wings, and spend all of his time fiddling with his phone. Occasionally he'd make some wisecrack about camping equipment, "cob houses," or the parking habits of his neighbors. No one knew where he came* from or what the fuck he was talking about. The Man with the Ragged Cuffs was what we called him--because we were young and stupid and didn't know what to call bottom of cuffless pants. He seemed harmless enough so we left him alone.

*Although the smart money was on Nebraska.

From Eruv Days and Boogie Nights: Growing up Footloose in the East End.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 02-11-15 7:32 AM
horizontal rule
68

Rusty Nails in contemporary pop culture:

Locked away in his Omaha apartment, "Jimmy McGill" resignedly pours himself a tumbler of Scotch and Drambuie with lemon juice, also known as a Rusty Nail, the preferred drink of depressed old men. Of course the man formerly known as Saul Goodman drinks Rusty Nails.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 02-11-15 7:36 AM
horizontal rule
69

By this point, a fair few of the people there know my name.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 02-11-15 7:36 AM
horizontal rule
70

And even more of them know I'm from Nebraska.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 02-11-15 7:37 AM
horizontal rule
71

70: Shockingly.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 02-11-15 7:39 AM
horizontal rule
72

Also, I've never seen them put lemon juice in a Rusty Nail. The Squirrel Cage does it with a twist. The nearby bar doesn't use any citrus in a Rusty Nail.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 02-11-15 7:39 AM
horizontal rule
73

72: They mention that ingredient anomaly in the article at the link. I did a mini-binge watch Monday night of the ending episodes of BB* and the first two episodes of Saul. I will probably get hooked, but some offputting elements, including relatively early appearance of surly, violent Mexican-Americans.

*Which I thought was a great ending at the time but found it a bit much on re-watch. Still the greatest ending song/visual/story line match ever. (And bonus points for not using the more "obvious" Dylan song.)


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 02-11-15 7:49 AM
horizontal rule
74

I really like that both BB and Saul film outdoors a lot, also the generous use of wide-angle shots.

The other McGill brother is nicely done, set and character together. Minimal electronic music for occasional punctuation would be perfect, maybe Ellen Allien or Trentemoller.


Posted by: lw | Link to this comment | 02-11-15 2:56 PM
horizontal rule