Re: Guest Post - Medical weight management program

1

You have to drink 3-5 quarts of liquid a day.

That much beer will make it hard to lose much weight.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 02-17-15 8:05 AM
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It's lite beer.


Posted by: snarkout | Link to this comment | 02-17-15 8:07 AM
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Anyway, I was thinking of not eating because Lent starts tomorrow. I always marvel at how people could live by the the old school fasting rule (only one meal and two snacks a day, six days a week). I suspect they all took the "drinking tons of beer" loophole.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 02-17-15 8:08 AM
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Using that same logic, Jammies used to call into work sick, and claim food poisoning, when he was hungover, pre-me-and-the-soul-suckers.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 02-17-15 8:10 AM
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Right. Nobody feels bad about calling in sick with a cold just because they know they got it because of their own fault by drinking out of a dirty cup or something.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 02-17-15 8:14 AM
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http://www.details.com/body-health/food-diet/201502/weight-watchers-trend-among-rich-famous-celebrities

"It's not a diet," he says, 30 pounds lighter than he was last year and with six marathons under his belt. "It's like keeping a budget. They really should market more toward finance guys."


Posted by: lemmy caution | Link to this comment | 02-17-15 8:16 AM
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Personally, I'm hope the brown fat/cold/thinner thing is true. I may as well get something out of this winter.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 02-17-15 8:18 AM
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- 'm or (-e +ing).

Suit yourself.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 02-17-15 8:19 AM
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I heard a woman who had been really successful on weight watchers (losing maybe 100 pounds over the course of a year and a half) say that if you don't do it through food and exercise alone, then you're not really ready, and it's "cheating."

Generally, a compassionate person.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 02-17-15 8:20 AM
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I've been steadily losing weight at the rate of about 10 pounds a month for six months now. My trick is simple: I don't eat anything except a medium sized lunch, with occasional cheating with ice cream roughly every week or so. I'm nearly always hungry, but I can distract myself so it's not too bad. One thing that's been interesting is a psychological shift that's taken place in my mind so hunger feels like virtue. I can easily understand how something like this could turn into an eating disorder if that connection got too strong.

I tried Nutrisystem for two months and lost about 10 pounds but the food was so awful I couldn't stick with it. Now I have a rule to only eat delicious things, and to do so in tiny amounts. It's working great so far. Only about another 4 months to my goal weight.

Right now I'm wearing jeans I last fit into 4 years ago and they are slightly loose. A lost of my clothes are starting to feel baggy. I'm not shopping for new ones until I hit my goal weight, so I'll just look like a hobo for a little while.

I think the thing that's made it possible to deal with the constant hunger is the big improvement in my mental energy that comes with regular exercise. The exercise alone does little for weight loss, but the mental boost makes staying on top of the diet that much easier. Plus I'm starting to get a little definition in my legs, which is nice. I'm thinking of buying a kilt if this keeps up.


Posted by: togolosh | Link to this comment | 02-17-15 8:43 AM
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Awesome. I am glad that this is out there, and that we're getting updates.


Posted by: Tim "Ripper" Owens | Link to this comment | 02-17-15 8:43 AM
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You go, peeps.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 02-17-15 8:46 AM
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I'm not shopping for new ones until I hit my goal weight, so I'll just look like a hobo for a little while.

There's nothing preventing you from buying new clothes that make you look like a hobo.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 02-17-15 8:48 AM
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One thing that's been interesting is a psychological shift that's taken place in my mind so hunger feels like virtue.

This is my dad, "The only time I'm not very hungry is after my morning coffee and after dinner. At those moments, I'm just a little hungry." (I hate that feeling, though.)


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 02-17-15 8:50 AM
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One thing that's been interesting is a psychological shift that's taken place in my mind so hunger feels like virtue.

Breaking away from that has been so hard for me and really deep down it's probably what I believe. I didn't eat much yesterday just because the food in the house was unappealing and it felt so good, but I force myself to eat anyway.


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 02-17-15 8:50 AM
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Minivet, does being full of that much liquid feel strange at first? I'm also very grateful you're sharing the details and that it's working for you.

Am I the only one who thinks about the dinner party in I Capture the Castle whenever meal replacement comes up?

"When this house was built, people used daggers and their fingers [to eat]," he said. "And it'll probably last until the days when men dine off capsules."

"Fancy asking friends to come over for capsules," I said.

"Oh, the capsules will be taken in private," said father. "By that time, eating will have become unmentionable. Pictures of food will be considered rare and curious, and only collected by rude old gentlemen."


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 02-17-15 8:58 AM
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Well, it's novel to forget to reopen italics rather than to close them, I guess. Oops.


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 02-17-15 9:00 AM
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And while I'm serial comment, togolosh, how does dating fit into all of that? Do you just cheat and have something to eat/drink? It would be sort of weird to eat in front of someone who's not eating on a first date, I'd think. Maybe it will give you more chances to find other things to do.


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 02-17-15 9:02 AM
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(the food is not supposed to be sold without a prescription)

I hope somebody mades the "We've been eating people" joke.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 02-17-15 9:08 AM
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I can't types today.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 02-17-15 9:19 AM
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16.1: It doesn't feel that weird to me at least. I don't feel "full" with liquid physically, except the one time I downed a shake and drank 16 ounces of water in quick succession and got a brief stomachache. It does mean I pee a lot more, but I've grown to welcome that, because apparently that's how a lot of the fat is leaving my body. My body may have habituated: drinking 12 ounces of water with each meal gets you up to the minimum requirement, but lately I get the urge to drink water between meals as well.

Thanks for the various well wishes.


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 02-17-15 9:20 AM
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Huh, my comment about vinegar didn't post. When I successfully lost weight, I incorporated some low to net no calorie snacks--mostly pickles and marinated mushrooms.

Vinegar seems to suppress appetite for me.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 02-17-15 9:22 AM
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22: It's in a different thread.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 02-17-15 9:22 AM
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Minivet, are you doing any exercise to go with this? Just regular walking?


Posted by: snarkout | Link to this comment | 02-17-15 9:28 AM
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I don't understand the restriction on caffeine, which would stop me doing this for a start. Caffeine is surely calorie-free? Do they think it gives you uncontrollable munchies, or what?


Posted by: chris y | Link to this comment | 02-17-15 9:30 AM
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Maybe it's a sleep-related issue. Not getting enough sleep is associated with weight gain.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 02-17-15 9:32 AM
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24: Working up to it, slowly making more of my steps actual exercise rather than walking to/from/around work. Mostly brisk walking, but broke into a brief run a couple days ago.


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 02-17-15 9:32 AM
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Maybe the caffeine thing is to stop people using caffeine-based thermogenic supplements?

Although I think most opposition to caffeine is just misguided health-bullshit.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 02-17-15 9:50 AM
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Or just preventing people from finding something else to fixate on (the whole dry-drunk thing).


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 02-17-15 9:52 AM
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How long is the portion where you eat the 6 items/day/960 cal?


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 02-17-15 9:56 AM
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15 weeks, then 4 weeks where you slowly draw down your formula intake.


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 02-17-15 9:57 AM
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Thanks for sharing this narrative, Minivet. I am really intrigued by it. I hope you will continue to give updates.


Posted by: knecht ruprecht | Link to this comment | 02-17-15 10:00 AM
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My hair started falling out yesterday in the shower, which means I'm officially post-post-partum. I'm so glad.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 02-17-15 10:00 AM
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Now I have a rule to only eat delicious things, and to do so in tiny amounts. It's working great so far.

This is the theory expounded in French Women Don't Get Fat, and I am at least 90% persuaded by it.


Posted by: knecht ruprecht | Link to this comment | 02-17-15 10:08 AM
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My dad got on a similar program a couple years back and lost a chunk of weight that AFAIK has stayed off. He still does shakes for breakfast almost every morning. It's great that you're responding so well to it, I hope it's a harbinger of long term success.

big improvement in my mental energy that comes with regular exercise

I don't get a euphoric runner's high, but my twice-weekly training for the century I just did seemed to have good mental energy effects, and I felt astonishingly energetic and cheerful for the ~18 hours after I finished the century (which was awesome but hard but awesome). I relaxed for maybe an hour, then made a semi-fancy meal (while the other riders were flopped on couches), and then woke up in a great mood after not too much sleep. Astonishingly not sore.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 02-17-15 10:08 AM
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Oh, I hated the hair loss. Chopped off all my hair because it was just getting ridiculous with the amount of hair I was losing in clumps (and I had weird but overwhelming anxiety that the Calabat would wind up with a hair tourniquet.)

Minivet, good luck to you; the program's long term management and support seems like it may be just as important as the shakes.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 02-17-15 10:11 AM
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34: I've definitely reduced portion sizes over the past few years, but there are definitely times when I eat more just to finish off the fucking leftovers ("I've now eaten this meal twice; if I don't eat a big portion, I'll have to face it again"). It's hard to balance, and I can't economically justify throwing away viable meals.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 02-17-15 10:11 AM
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On the subject of non-food fun, Eddie Izzard is coming to the Rockies and the West Coast! Literally every state west of the Great Plains, plus the Dakotas, oddly. Maybe he wants to see that part of the country. Tickets go on sale Friday at 10AM.


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 02-17-15 10:12 AM
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I really liked French Women Don't Get Fat, goofball champagne recipes aside. Don't snack, sit down to eat, and otherwise don't worry about it works pretty well for me.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 02-17-15 10:12 AM
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18: I eat small amounts on dates. I figure they are sufficiently infrequent that cheating doesn't matter. I do have a couple lined up for when I get back. If my dating life really heats up I'll have to make adjustments, but right now there's only one serious prospect and two 'maybes' so chances are good that I won't have to deal with that issue for a little while.


Posted by: togolosh | Link to this comment | 02-17-15 10:13 AM
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Dates topped with a bit of cheese is pretty good.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 02-17-15 10:18 AM
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One of my ideas for post-formula - combining food goals and social goals - is a strict limit on eating out, like once or twice a month, unless it's in someone else's company. (I ate out way too much before.)


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 02-17-15 10:21 AM
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39: I liked that book too, but then I read that French people are getting fatter too.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 02-17-15 10:22 AM
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The sequel is French Women Don't Get Fat Quite As Fast.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 02-17-15 10:24 AM
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My problem with exercise is that I feel energetic and alert for a while, but then I get sleepy sooner and crash. After really hard workouts (which were rare) I could barely get it together to eat dinner and needed like 12 hours of sleep. That's just not practical.

I need to get more exercise, but the energy boost has never panned out for me.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 02-17-15 10:25 AM
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42: I feel like certain kinds of eating out are actually helpful to me.

(1.) Restaurants where I order fish and avoid bread. As long as the portions aren't too big.

(2.) Cafeterias with unlimited salad bars, because I get more variety of vegetables than I do at home.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 02-17-15 10:27 AM
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Don't snack, sit down to eat, and otherwise don't worry about it works pretty well for me.

It's interesting that this is just about the exact opposite of what my wife does -- except for breakfast, she mostly eats snacks standing up.
And this works pretty well for her.

Which is more proof for my useless theory of dieting -- that different things work for different people.



Posted by: peep | Link to this comment | 02-17-15 10:29 AM
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Situational cannibalism is the only thing that works for me.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 02-17-15 10:35 AM
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42: I feel like certain kinds of eating out are actually helpful to me, Laydeez.


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 02-17-15 10:38 AM
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49: Huh?


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 02-17-15 10:45 AM
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It's an oral sex joke.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 02-17-15 10:47 AM
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51: Actually it's more of a written sex joke.


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 02-17-15 10:48 AM
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It doesn't work very well if you don't say that "Laydeez" part out loud.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 02-17-15 10:51 AM
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I have the crashing problem too, Bostoniangirl, if I get as tired as I like to. Actually I miss it right now since at least it helps with insomnia. (I am still among the limpy. MRI this week, though I suspect another six months of PT is the thing.)

JRoth, freezing a pint of leftovers? Peanut butter jars will do, and there's a lunch-pellet for later.

I'm glad the program is working, minivet. Portioning everything out beforehand makes so much sense; why burn up decision-making energy all the time?


Posted by: clew | Link to this comment | 02-17-15 11:25 AM
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I guess I'm trying Weight Watchers again starting...tomorrow or sometime. The last few months I was eating quite badly because I was kind of miserable about a lot of things and that's how I deal. I kind of want to do this without self-loathing, but self-loathing is a pretty good motivator. The good news is I don't have much of a social life right now.

It's been a strange process going from effortlessly skinny (my 20s) to able to maintain an ok weight with occasional diets (my 30s) to constant underlying food guilt and frequent new lifetime high weights and clothes sizes. It's not much fun.


Posted by: Mister Smearcase | Link to this comment | 02-17-15 11:46 AM
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55.2 is sort of strange except that it happens to nearly every single person.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 02-17-15 11:48 AM
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Well, ok, "strange" was not the right word. Substitute "lousy."


Posted by: Mister Smearcase | Link to this comment | 02-17-15 12:04 PM
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I should probably work on my empathy or something.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 02-17-15 12:05 PM
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58: that might get better with even more age.


Posted by: Turgid Jacobian | Link to this comment | 02-17-15 12:12 PM
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Good going, Mini.


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 02-17-15 12:23 PM
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Minivet, thanks for writing about your experience. I hope it continues to be a positive experience, and I hope you reach your goals. My coworker who did this kind of diet was told not to exercise, I think, during the initiation part, but he began running once he could (very slowly! Like a brisk walk) and now is doing 5Ks and half-marathons.

Togolosh, I hope you end up where you want to be. Maybe consider one set of intermediate clothes, though? Because you might want the encouragement of seeing how you look in clothes that fit.


Posted by: ydnew | Link to this comment | 02-17-15 5:43 PM
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thanks for sharing minivet, this is cool and I literally didn't know it existed. I second the recommendation to get new clothes for what you weigh right now, togolosh; otherwise it can seem like you're punishing yourself for not being thin enough.


Posted by: alameida | Link to this comment | 02-17-15 6:03 PM
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I really need to get going on some weight loss. I'm not quite at my all-time high, but within a couple of binge weekends of it, which is very bad. I've been trying to get back into exercising more, but have had a lot of pain issues that prevent that (bum ankle the past two days for instance, and lots of knee pain). I've been a bit better on the food front, but nowhere near what I need to be, either in terms of calories or just healthy food choices. I have got to do something soon, or I'll just keel over, my BP being what it is. Sigh.

(For context: I've gained at least 15 lbs since I saw you all in DC.)


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 02-17-15 7:27 PM
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Tendons are for shit.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 02-17-15 7:31 PM
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JRoth, freezing a pint of leftovers? Peanut butter jars will do, and there's a lunch-pellet for later.

Yeah, what I'm bad at is freezing things before they're already on the edge. I don't really know the science, but it seems like a bad idea to take some e.g. chili that's within 24-48 hours of the trash can and freeze it. Partly because time elapses while it freezes and then again while it thaws.

If I know in advance I have more than I'll consume, I certainly freeze, but it's that last portion that I didn't expect to still be there.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 02-17-15 8:49 PM
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I second the recommendation to get new clothes for what you weigh right now, togolosh; otherwise it can seem like you're punishing yourself for not being thin enough.

Yeah, I meant to say: Surely you could at least thrift a few items so it's not all hobo, all the time. Having a few flattering things is a really nice reward for improving one's shape (and a bit of a goad for keeping going: "I could look this good in everything if I work it a bit more").


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 02-17-15 8:51 PM
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sorry natilo, that's a drag. my neurotic tendencies are partly justified (by me, to my higher rational processes) as a way to deal with how much easier it is to accidentally gain 10 lbs than just whoopsie daisie lose them. my sisters tendons are all just becoming more and more lax because of her ehlers-danlos. she dislocates her hip rolling over in bed. she's the color of snow and herself maybe 125 lbs. shorter than me, but fuck. she and my mom need live-in care for both of them. mine are loose but I don't feel like I got much bitching headroom. my right knee is permanent fucked up, though. I can't run ever but I can't do the breast stroke right now because the frog part is too twisty? I suck at freestyle so hard I just can't swim any laps. really. maybe I should hire the swim instructor from downstairs? it's a not unheard of activity. I could solicit advice. I get exercise swimming 3 laps though. ogged would laugh at me. I want to get a kickboard to do the flutter kicking part but am too humiliated.


Posted by: alameida | Link to this comment | 02-17-15 8:54 PM
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OP
Congrats on the weight loss! I hope the rest of the program goes as smoothly.

7

I've lost some weight this winter simply by being cold a lot, so anecdata supports your theory.

I lost a lot of weight once through contracting cholera. It took me about two years of normal eating to get back to my pre cholera weight. During those two years, people just assumed I had an eating disorder, which I suppose is far more common among middle class white women than cholera. If I were writing a satirical postmodern novel, I'd make catching cholera be a popular Hollywood diet.


Posted by: Buttercup | Link to this comment | 02-17-15 9:03 PM
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jroth, preƫmptively freeze half?


Posted by: alameida | Link to this comment | 02-17-15 9:18 PM
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68: I've considered before that something like that might genuinely be popular. I am so sorry you were so ill. I always think of the splash page in maus, where he's on his top bunk with his hoarded bread, and it just has the word written huge CHOLERA. he steals the rations of the almost-dead. it's awful because you think what could scare them any more? and then just this single word is terror. I saw romi just for a short time this morning so he could give me my passport. even though he's exhausted he looked so shining and cheerful as always, with a frangipani tucked behind one ear. he was going from spending the night in the hospital with his daughter to taking his son to school. I realize it would have been selfish of me to ask him to come work with me on lombok even if girl x were fine. I asked him if we should move his daughter to the more expensive hospital now that she's stabilized enough but he said no. I am afraid she will get sick from something else because the hospital is overfull. the indonesian health system isn't the worst, but... it's pretty shitty. every ward is full, double-full, people in the hall with IV drips. near as I can see the government is playing down the scale of the dengue epidemic to keep tourism dollars coming in.


Posted by: alameida | Link to this comment | 02-17-15 9:29 PM
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I have been trying a sort of half hearted palaeo - "chalcolithic" perhaps - in which I cut out potatoes, rice and grain and do a load of cardio. It seems to be working in terms of less flab and more muscle tone though how much of that is the cardio I have no idea. I seem to be sleeping less too though that may be unconnected.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 02-17-15 10:42 PM
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Also all my sympathy to al and her extended family (blood relations or not, I think they still count).


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 02-17-15 10:45 PM
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That sounds more like Mesolithic to me. Certainly cutting out grains puts you well before the Neolithic, let alone the Chalcolithic.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 02-17-15 10:47 PM
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Now I'm embarrassed. Quite right of course.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 02-17-15 11:22 PM
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To be fair, the European Chalcolithic was notably lacking in potatoes.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 02-17-15 11:31 PM
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The Mesolithic is awesome. I vote for Lepinski Vir as max human high point. Just think what we could have done without grain.


Posted by: Tim "Ripper" Owens | Link to this comment | 02-17-15 11:35 PM
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I'm more of a Neolithic man myself, but I do maintain close connections to the hunter-gatherer community.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 02-17-15 11:58 PM
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55.2 is sort of strange except that it happens to nearly every single person.

Wait, what happens to married people?


Posted by: MHPH | Link to this comment | 02-18-15 5:49 AM
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Wait, what happens to married people?

Same thing, only on an accelerated timetable.


Posted by: knecht ruprecht | Link to this comment | 02-18-15 5:52 AM
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And with added commentary.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 02-18-15 7:48 AM
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70

Thanks. It was almost 10 years ago now. What struck me was how quickly I went from feeling a little queasy to being deathly ill and needing emergency care (about 6 hours), and I'm a healthy well-nourished adult. Cholera is extremely treatable with oral or intravenous re-hydration, but it can kill a sickly baby in under 2 hours and a sickly adult in not many more. What also was surprising was how much weight I lost and how long I kept it off, even after I recovered. If I lived with food scarcity and had to do manual labor or reproduce for a living, cholera would have incapacitated me for several years or probably sent me to an early grave. I hope both the sick girls in your life are doing better. Dengue is no joke, and neither is getting an appendix out.


Posted by: Buttercup | Link to this comment | 02-18-15 8:17 AM
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55.2

I generally weigh less than I did in my late teens/early 20s (changing body type--I put on some baby fat in late puberty that came off towards the end of my early 20s), but I've found that in my early 30s even if I'm not necessarily getting fatter overall, I'm accumulating fat in places it never used to exist. I have a roll of fat that appeared on my abdomen as a 31st birthday present and won't go away, no matter how much yoga or crunches I do and no matter how little I weigh. Now that I've lost weight in the cold, my upper torso and waist are really toned, but my abdomen fat is going nowhere. I don't really want to lose more weight or fat from anywhere else in my body (ok, my upper arms could stand to lose some flab), so I think I just have to accept that my flat ab days are over.


Posted by: Buttercup | Link to this comment | 02-18-15 8:26 AM
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