Re: Guest Post - Sex Drive

1

The next step is obviously to try very hard to convince the men that the woman trying to sleep with them was a violent creep and a chatty one at that.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 05- 6-15 1:27 PM
horizontal rule
2

Maybe give her a bunch of guns and a business card for a web site called dudeswhowerewillingtohavesexwithme.com.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 05- 6-15 1:29 PM
horizontal rule
3

I like the way Moby thinks.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05- 6-15 1:29 PM
horizontal rule
4

Also, technically I sent the last two guest posts to heebie in the same email, bu- pacing!


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05- 6-15 1:30 PM
horizontal rule
5

"(if these phrases sound familiar, it may be because they form the chorus of Touch and Go's 1990s Jazz-pop hit "Would You Go To Bed With Me" - probably the only pop song whose lyrics are lifted entirely from the methods section of a research paper)"


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 05- 6-15 1:31 PM
horizontal rule
6

Oh, ha, I posted before putting in my contribution. UPDATED!


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 05- 6-15 1:32 PM
horizontal rule
7

And I claimed that I'd get around to posting both of them, but everyone knows (and I explicitly said to Heebie) that I was just kidding myself.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 05- 6-15 1:32 PM
horizontal rule
8

6: My first comment would be something toward an answer to your question, but there would still be the potential for bias.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 05- 6-15 1:35 PM
horizontal rule
9

What does it take for a women to appear creepy? Eyeing other people's babies in a witchy manner? Overly compliant to an excessively domineering man?


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 05- 6-15 1:38 PM
horizontal rule
10

Tangentially, Emily Nagoski (promoting her book) likes to say that desire for sex isn't a "drive", just a desire, with competing exitations and inhibitions:
http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg22630152.200-theres-no-such-thing-as-a-sex-drive.html#.VUp7vtzsl4t


Posted by: Nathan Williams | Link to this comment | 05- 6-15 1:39 PM
horizontal rule
11

Creepy is easy. Creepy with the potential for immediate violence is harder. You won't get there with witchy.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 05- 6-15 1:39 PM
horizontal rule
12

Beheaded rabbits?


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 05- 6-15 1:40 PM
horizontal rule
13

Thanks, but I don't want to spoil my dinner.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 05- 6-15 1:41 PM
horizontal rule
14

What does it take for a women to appear creepy?

I know it when I see it.

Not only would I turn down such propositions, but I have more than once.


Posted by: idp | Link to this comment | 05- 6-15 1:42 PM
horizontal rule
15

What made them creepy? What's the underlying fear they elicit?


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 05- 6-15 1:45 PM
horizontal rule
16

Without following the link, what's wrong with study? I mean, the old joke that all psychology/sociology studies are based on samples of bored college students comes to mind. This study seems susceptible to that, but no more so than any other study.


Posted by: Cyrus | Link to this comment | 05- 6-15 1:45 PM
horizontal rule
17

I suppose I give the researchers points for at least trying to get around the obvious limitations of the earlier "walk up to random people on the street" versions of this sort of study.

Maybe I'm giving people too much credit for common sense, but in the random person on the street scenario, I assume that the vast majority of people would assume that the person offering to sleep with them is either crazy in some potentially dangerous way or else part of some candid camera set up. So with the positive responders you're selecting for a weird subset of the population.


Posted by: AcademicLurker | Link to this comment | 05- 6-15 1:47 PM
horizontal rule
18

Well, it's not a sample that happens to be in Psych 101, it's a sample that was interested helping a dating company evaluate their compatibility algorithm. Presumably they were intrigued by the possibility of an actual date.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 05- 6-15 1:48 PM
horizontal rule
19

Castration anxiety is a good, easily to elicit, underlying fear.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 05- 6-15 1:49 PM
horizontal rule
20

Identified in the streets, anonymized between the sheets.


Posted by: fake accent | Link to this comment | 05- 6-15 1:52 PM
horizontal rule
21

What's the underlying fear they elicit?

Unpredictability, threat of violence, sudden mood change; the fear is in there somewhere. Actually the joke above about too much deference is on to something too.


Posted by: idp | Link to this comment | 05- 6-15 1:54 PM
horizontal rule
22

15. Won't go away, will demand constant attention. Has crazy eyes, weird lacunae in perception of external reality. DSM descriptions of bipolarity or borderline personality disorder may apply-- basically, being poorly integrated and possibly hostile.


Posted by: lw | Link to this comment | 05- 6-15 1:58 PM
horizontal rule
23

Right, what I'd go for if trying to project creepiness would be potential for becoming a stalker. Threat of immediate violence I probably couldn't manage in a genuinely scary way (within the confines of plausible deniability), but "I will appear on your doorstep and tell all your friends we're engaged, as well as harassing any other women you appear to be involved with" seems like what I'd want to get across for impressive creepiness.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 05- 6-15 2:02 PM
horizontal rule
24

What 22 said


Posted by: idp | Link to this comment | 05- 6-15 2:03 PM
horizontal rule
25

"My ex didn't pay enough attention to me, but I can tell that won't be a problem with you." [Inappropriately intense eye contact.]


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 05- 6-15 2:03 PM
horizontal rule
26

"The other members of the Nazi Party just love me for my Aryan-birthing hips, but I can tell you appreciate me for my racism."


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 05- 6-15 2:09 PM
horizontal rule
27

And having described, in agreement with lw and idp, what looks like creepiness from a woman, I will offer the hypothesis that fear of being explicitly or implicitly accused of that variety of creepiness is a large part of the social barrier keeping many women from engaging in casual sex.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 05- 6-15 2:11 PM
horizontal rule
28

While 21--25 are on to something, I can testify that there are grown men who are capable of ignoring such warning signs. (In fact 25 is disturbingly close to something Bad Ex actually said and did on an early date.)


Posted by: not feeling very nymous | Link to this comment | 05- 6-15 2:13 PM
horizontal rule
29

What I always wonder about studies like these, especially the earlier ones where people just walked up to strangers, is what actually happened when someone did say "yes". Did the study participant just laugh at them? "J/k! Hahahaha. No it was for a scientific study I'm not actually interested at all." I doubt "and then you have to sleep with them" would get through most IRBs*. but it also sounds kind of mean. I also wonder how many times the person asking gently indicated that while it was for the purposes of science maybe something could be arranged for later anyway.

*DTF in the streets, IRB in the sheets?


Posted by: MHPH | Link to this comment | 05- 6-15 2:17 PM
horizontal rule
30

This version is more IRB friendly -- it's establishing willingness without (I think) requiring a face-to-face with the confederate. Participants are picking photos and info to meet for a sex-assumed date, not talking to the person.

The old study, yeah, there must have been a bit of a tricky dismount.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 05- 6-15 2:20 PM
horizontal rule
31

what looks like creepiness from a woman, I will offer the hypothesis that fear of being explicitly or implicitly accused of that variety of creepiness is a large part of the social barrier keeping many women from engaging in casual sex

Are you suggesting that this ought not to be so, that men should be more tolerant and ignore these signs? How does the explicit/implicit fear operate and what should be done about it?


Posted by: idp | Link to this comment | 05- 6-15 2:23 PM
horizontal rule
32

The old study, yeah, there must have been a bit of a tricky dismount.

I didn't think that they would let things go that far!


Posted by: peep | Link to this comment | 05- 6-15 2:26 PM
horizontal rule
33

14, 31: She's saying you should have said yes.


Posted by: peep | Link to this comment | 05- 6-15 2:27 PM
horizontal rule
34

33: Not for pleasure -- for feminism!


Posted by: peep | Link to this comment | 05- 6-15 2:27 PM
horizontal rule
35

FWIW, the converse of 25 (the complaint "I'm used to men constantly staring at me with lust in their eyes and telling me I'm the most amazing woman ever and it concerns me that, on occasion, you do not do that") is also not great.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 05- 6-15 2:28 PM
horizontal rule
36

I wouldn't have really hurt the bunny rabbit. Probably.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 05- 6-15 2:28 PM
horizontal rule
37

But seriously: no, heaven forfend that I should suggest that anyone overlook warning signs, there are creepy people out there and it's a good rule of thumb not to have casual sex with people you find frightening.

OTOH, and I'm generalizing madly from limited personal and anecdotal data, way back in my single days, I certainly had the impression that any expectation of friendliness or courtesy in a casual sex context was fairly likely to draw a response implying that such an expectation was an indication of creepy overinvolvement. And not wanting to get into that dynamic kept me chaster than I might have been in an ideal world.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 05- 6-15 2:36 PM
horizontal rule
38

Conversely to 37.2, IMO indication that one was just into it for one's sexual pleasure and no affection or social contact was expected also counted as creepy, as Girls Aren't Like That. It's a wonder hets have casual sex at all.


Posted by: clew | Link to this comment | 05- 6-15 2:40 PM
horizontal rule
39

People who need people but not so much as to be off-putting to people are the luckiest people of all.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 05- 6-15 2:42 PM
horizontal rule
40

any expectation of friendliness or courtesy in a casual sex context was fairly likely to draw a response implying that such an expectation was an indication of creepy overinvolvement.

The flipside misconception is "men are just in relationships for the dependable sex and must endure the annoying women they date" which I believed deep down for way too long.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 05- 6-15 2:46 PM
horizontal rule
41

Did you specifically develop annoying habits because you felt you should?


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 05- 6-15 2:47 PM
horizontal rule
42

37 and 38 are reassuring, because I think I successfully threaded that needle. That is that friendliness or courtesy or casual interest were easily distinguished, by me anyway, and that I acted accordingly.


Posted by: idp | Link to this comment | 05- 6-15 2:48 PM
horizontal rule
43

I managed to successfully avoid multiple casual sex arrangements that would likely have been fun and would anyway have been harmless at worst, so go me.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 05- 6-15 2:51 PM
horizontal rule
44

"The other members of the Nazi Party just love me for my Aryan-birthing hips, but I can tell you appreciate me for my racism."

Nazi mommy in the sheets, Nazi mommy in the...other sheets.

Today is the day Smearcase cannot let go of certain jokes.


Posted by: Mister Smearcase | Link to this comment | 05- 6-15 2:53 PM
horizontal rule
45

43, which I could have said as well -- and I'm sure is quite common -- stands with the 2000 election as conclusive proof that time travel will never be possible.


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 05- 6-15 2:54 PM
horizontal rule
46

Nazi mommy in the sheets, Nazi mommy in the...other sheets.

KKK mommy in the other sheets?


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 05- 6-15 2:58 PM
horizontal rule
47

Did you specifically develop annoying habits because you felt you should?

No, my jokes are always funny.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 05- 6-15 2:58 PM
horizontal rule
48

46 that's kind of what I was after!


Posted by: Mister Smearcase | Link to this comment | 05- 6-15 3:00 PM
horizontal rule
49

And having described, in agreement with lw and idp, what looks like creepiness from a woman, I will offer the hypothesis that fear of being explicitly or implicitly accused of that variety of creepiness is a large part of the social barrier keeping many women from engaging in casual sex.

I don't know about this. The female creepiness described above could be described as "overwhelming emotional investment at a clearly premature state in the relationship". If anything, this often goes along with being not open to sex at all at first, and then at the moment she decides to have sex she also decides he is the love of her life and they will be together for 70 years and have 15 children.


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 05- 6-15 3:05 PM
horizontal rule
50

I'm not quite seeing the disagreement here. What did I say that was inconsistent with what you said?


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 05- 6-15 3:11 PM
horizontal rule
51

Careful. You'll frighten him.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 05- 6-15 3:14 PM
horizontal rule
52

The focus on personal creepiness is a little too strong. I have been hit on by people I have not been attracted to and I have no reason to suspect that they were creeps. It was uncomfortable anyway.


Posted by: Lemmy caution | Link to this comment | 05- 6-15 3:43 PM
horizontal rule
53

48: explicit mommy in the...excel spreadsheets.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 05- 6-15 4:41 PM
horizontal rule
54

48 to 47


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05- 6-15 4:43 PM
horizontal rule
55

52: the focus on personal creepiness is on the part of the author of the guest post, not the author of the linked post or the authors of the study. It seems like the authors of the study were also very concerned with convincing female subjects their reputations would remain intact.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 05- 6-15 4:44 PM
horizontal rule
56

This seems like a good thread to say that I got hit on the other day in a pitch-perfect way. (Not actually perfect for me, I'm in a relationship and not looking, but impressively good in an unambiguous-interest-but-no-pressure way.)

It was a taxi driver with whom I had had a fairly long chat about sports, cities, etc. during a 40-minute ride. After I paid* and was out of the cab** he handed me my receipt*** and a card and told me his schedule for the next couple of days, along with a cheerful comment that he'd be happy to hear from me at any time.

It really was very nicely done, especially the deftness with which he managed to communicate interest without obligation. Even if I were single I wouldn't have taken him up on it, as he seemed to be fairly into the Miami club scene, tbh.

*and so he was clearly not angling for a better tip

**and thus had no danger of making me feel at his mercy in a moving car

***he had no control over this, but I paid in cash and thus felt even safer, since the option to contact him again was entirely mine


Posted by: Witt | Link to this comment | 05- 6-15 5:07 PM
horizontal rule
57

Maybe finding the female version of creepy is the wrong approach. Instead, go with the Margaret Atwood suggestion that, while women fest men will kill them, men fear that women will laugh at them. Then, compare women's responses when the "might kill you" factor is present to men's responses when the "might laught at you" factor us present


Posted by: Calypso | Link to this comment | 05- 6-15 5:09 PM
horizontal rule
58

So the study basically answers the question "if women could have sex like a man, would they?"


Posted by: Todd | Link to this comment | 05- 6-15 5:10 PM
horizontal rule
59

Cryptic Ned, if I read LB right she's saying that she (and she thinks others) was deterred from casual sex not b/c engaging in it would be seen as creepy the way the word's being used here, but b/c any contact she initiated afterward would be seen that way.


Posted by: torque | Link to this comment | 05- 6-15 5:24 PM
horizontal rule
60

Casual pick up in the streets, Milgram experiment hook-up between the sheets.


Posted by: fake accent | Link to this comment | 05- 6-15 5:57 PM
horizontal rule
61

Seriously, I could die happy today in streets or sheets because this stuff is just so awesome. I owe fake accent and Mister Smearcase a lot of something.


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 05- 6-15 6:01 PM
horizontal rule
62

Die happy in the sheets, moldering corpse in the streets.


Posted by: Tim "Ripper" Owens | Link to this comment | 05- 6-15 6:04 PM
horizontal rule
63

moldering corpse in the winding sheet


Posted by: fake accent | Link to this comment | 05- 6-15 6:08 PM
horizontal rule
64

*I'm* the one who found that not presenting as emotionally needy was weird enough to be off putting. Also removed a negotiating advantage, which may have been the real issue.


Posted by: clew | Link to this comment | 05- 6-15 6:08 PM
horizontal rule
65

I know I've found that the way to be propositioned a lot is to already have a relationship and just not look like or be the guy's wife. It hasn't led to any casual sex, but that's on me.


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 05- 6-15 6:12 PM
horizontal rule
66

Sparkling eyes withered like the blasted rose, blooming cheeks withered like the blasted rose. Active limbs in the coffin, active limbs in the earth, active limbs in the winding sheet.


Posted by: OPINIONATED EVANGELICAL HYMNODIST | Link to this comment | 05- 6-15 6:13 PM
horizontal rule
67

Witty allusions in the streets, lost illusions in the sheets.


Posted by: fake accent | Link to this comment | 05- 6-15 6:17 PM
horizontal rule
68

65: What if you were the guy's wife, but in a mask.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 05- 6-15 6:29 PM
horizontal rule
69

68: I only know that I never have been, so I really can't answer.


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 05- 6-15 6:33 PM
horizontal rule
70

Or if you liked piña coladas.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 05- 6-15 6:35 PM
horizontal rule
71

Strict empiricist, eh.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 05- 6-15 6:37 PM
horizontal rule
72

Theoretical explorations in the streets, empirical investigations in the sheets.


Posted by: fake accent | Link to this comment | 05- 6-15 6:41 PM
horizontal rule
73

Hypothesis development in the streets, data acquisition between the sheets.


Posted by: ydnew | Link to this comment | 05- 6-15 6:43 PM
horizontal rule
74

I'm starting to think that maybe language IS a virus from outer space, in which case I'm sad I spent the last week on antivirals. Maybe tomorrow when it's not cool anymore I can make some of these myself.


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 05- 6-15 6:44 PM
horizontal rule
75

Language and space herpes.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 05- 6-15 6:48 PM
horizontal rule
76

Richard Serra in the streets, Yogi Berra in the sheets.


Posted by: Barry Freed | Link to this comment | 05- 6-15 6:51 PM
horizontal rule
77

That was a really good weekend.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 05- 6-15 6:53 PM
horizontal rule
78

Hermes in the streets, herpes in the sheets.


Posted by: fake accent | Link to this comment | 05- 6-15 7:02 PM
horizontal rule
79

You guys are not very shingles-positive. I feel hurt, but I guess that's the shingles too.


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 05- 6-15 7:13 PM
horizontal rule
80

Barry Freed! Are your Arabic literature books still looking for a home? I've got some eager takers! Heebie has my email.


Posted by: dairy queen | Link to this comment | 05- 6-15 7:18 PM
horizontal rule
81

I'm a little afraid of shingles. It sounds very painful.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 05- 6-15 7:25 PM
horizontal rule
82

80 Thanks for asking but I finally found a taker. A major university library of a much hated real estate concern university. I hope to rent a U-haul and schlep them down Friday.

Now my pressing concern other than the car is how the hell do I ship my stuff overseas. Have any Mineshafters ever done that?
I'm trying desperately to find a freight forwarder/international shipper that will ship like half a pallet or less of my personal effects and household goods for a reasonable price.


Posted by: Barry Freed | Link to this comment | 05- 6-15 7:38 PM
horizontal rule
83

Bummer! Oh well. Good luck with the car. My overseas shipping never happened on a scale that would be useful to you, I was pretty darn footloose back then.


Posted by: dairy queen | Link to this comment | 05- 6-15 7:44 PM
horizontal rule
84

I'm actually looking for small scale. No furniture. Just a few boxes of books (that I'm keeping), personal papers, tchotchkes, that kind of thing. Maybe 6-8 boxes at most. What a headache.


Posted by: Barry Freed | Link to this comment | 05- 6-15 7:46 PM
horizontal rule
85

I always confuse Richard Serra and Robert Smithson because my brain only has one spot under "sculpture" for any given pair of initials.


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 05- 6-15 7:47 PM
horizontal rule
86

Did Richard Scarry not sculpt occasionally? Where's TRO?


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 05- 6-15 7:50 PM
horizontal rule
87

Scylla in the streets, Charybdis in the sheets.


Posted by: fake accent | Link to this comment | 05- 6-15 7:53 PM
horizontal rule
88

Karl Marx in the streets, Slavoj Žižek in the sheets.


Posted by: Barry Freed | Link to this comment | 05- 6-15 7:54 PM
horizontal rule
89

Gutzon Borglum and Gianlorenzo Bernini: basically the same person, right?


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 05- 6-15 8:01 PM
horizontal rule
90

Ethnic grocers that work with the target country have ads for shipping some places-- Europe and SE asia at least, don't know about Arrakis.


Posted by: lw | Link to this comment | 05- 6-15 8:07 PM
horizontal rule
91

Piazza di San Pietro in the streets, L'Estasi di Santa Teresa in the sheets.


Posted by: fake accent | Link to this comment | 05- 6-15 8:16 PM
horizontal rule
92

66 I am now going to type the "greater than three" thing and I assume the blog will joylessly eat it.


Posted by: Mister Smearcase | Link to this comment | 05- 6-15 8:40 PM
horizontal rule
93

86 -- Mr. Gronkle in the streets, Lowly Worm between the sheets.


Posted by: TRO | Link to this comment | 05- 6-15 9:06 PM
horizontal rule
94

I love you TRO.


Posted by: alameida | Link to this comment | 05- 6-15 10:50 PM
horizontal rule
95

Arson on the streets, Riot in the sheets.


Posted by: Asteele | Link to this comment | 05- 7-15 1:58 AM
horizontal rule
96

Dust in the streets, grit in the sheets (shoulda washed my feets).


Posted by: marcel | Link to this comment | 05- 7-15 5:03 AM
horizontal rule