Re: One Fifth

1

Jesus fucking christ.
Only with a condom apparently.


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 05-31-15 6:20 AM
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2

This is a strange case. I think it's pretty clear what's meant (the inverse of five times higher?) but the phrase itself is arithmetically meaningless. Does "a fivefold decrease" make sense?


Posted by: Yawnoc | Link to this comment | 05-31-15 7:02 AM
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3

If you move from the US to the Netherlands you'll see a 80% drop in teen pregnancy rates, but if you move in the other direction you'll see a 5-fold increase. If you keep moving back and forth eventually everyone will be pregnant.


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 05-31-15 7:15 AM
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4

2: Since your parenthetical explanation is to my mind exactly what is meant by the phrase, both in intent and in reception, I'm not sure it's arithmetically meaningless, anymore at least.


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 05-31-15 7:41 AM
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5

Or put another way, division is often introduced as the inverse of multiplication - six taken two times is twelve, six taken one-half times is three - so it seems reasonable to similarly invert a phrase normally used for multiplication.


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 05-31-15 7:45 AM
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6

2: I like "fivefold decrease", as if the quantity is being folded up.

Anyway, I think this is somewhat natural language. We say "five times more". Does the "more" mean anything, or is it just redundant? It's reasonable to reanalyse it as meaningful, and "less" or "lower" typechecks with "more".


Posted by: dalriata | Link to this comment | 05-31-15 7:47 AM
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7

They should just say, "0.2 times".


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 05-31-15 7:51 AM
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8

Pedigreed!

Though commerce was still very low, it seems rather to have encreased since the conquest; at least, if we may judge of the increase of money by the price of corn. The medium between the highest and lowest prices of wheat assigned by the statute, is fourteen shillings and ten-pence halfpenny of our present money. This is about one-third of the price in our time, yet the middling price of cattle, so late as the reign of the king Richard, we find to be above eight, near ten times lower than the present.

(The History of England, Oliver Goldsmith, 1794)

The proposed railway is to pass through Romford, Chelmsford, Colchester, Ipswitch, and Norwich, and terminate at Yarmouth. From the very level nature of the country--the most level, indeed, of the same extent in Great Britain--the highest summitt level will be seven times lower than the highest summit level of the Southampton railways, and eight times lower than that of the Birmingham...

(Mechanics' Magazine, Museum, Register, Journal, and Gazette, August 16, 1834)


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 05-31-15 7:56 AM
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9

Just say "one fifth" like a normal person.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 05-31-15 8:03 AM
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10

And "x-tuple" in preference to "x times higher"?


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 05-31-15 8:05 AM
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11

.2 is so much more clear.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 05-31-15 8:27 AM
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12

9: Fractionormativist.


Posted by: | Link to this comment | 05-31-15 8:38 AM
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13

11: Sure, to decimonormativists. Moby, othering the otherwise digitialed since 2015.


Posted by: | Link to this comment | 05-31-15 8:40 AM
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14

x2


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 05-31-15 8:41 AM
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15

"n-fold" confuses me, because it seems like it should be an geometric series: one fold is half, two folds is a quarter, etc. Even if you took a piece of paper and folded it n times such that all of the unfolded areas were equal in size, you'd have n+1 such areas (i.e., four folds gets you sub-parts that are one-fifth the size of the original). Blech.

4: I think it's meaningful natural language, but what I meant by "arithmetically meaning" is you could fairly directly transliterate into some formula: "five times more" = "y = 5x", "half again as much" = "y = 1.5x", "five times less" = ... "5y = x", I guess?


Posted by: Yawnoc | Link to this comment | 05-31-15 8:41 AM
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16

Isn't 1/5 non-terminating in binary?


Posted by: Yawnoc | Link to this comment | 05-31-15 8:43 AM
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17

I'm sure there's something in Grothendieck's writings that would explain all this.


Posted by: AcademicLurker | Link to this comment | 05-31-15 8:56 AM
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18

I thought "this sentence annoys me" referred to how badly the fact in it reflected on the US, not the construction of it. Clearly I should have known better.


Posted by: Cyrus | Link to this comment | 05-31-15 9:30 AM
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19

We have the pregnantest teens ever.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 05-31-15 9:34 AM
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20

U! S! A!


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 05-31-15 9:38 AM
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21

Unassuagably! Sexed! Adolescents!


Posted by: NW | Link to this comment | 05-31-15 1:24 PM
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22

In science we see the phrase "fold change" all the time, and like some people above I could not wrap my head around why this referred to simply multiplying the number by some number. Until I realized... it's just simply the English suffix "-fold", as in "fivefold", "tenfold", etc. Oh!


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 05-31-15 1:36 PM
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23

I don't understand the OP or this thread at all. Do I not speak the same language as the rest of you?


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 05-31-15 2:33 PM
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24

Mathematicians seem to have strong opinions about how people should talk about numbers.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 05-31-15 2:34 PM
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25

23: Just talk with somebody Dutch before you have sex.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 05-31-15 2:40 PM
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26

22: "Two log reduction" is even less intuitive, if we're picking on science.


Posted by: ydnew | Link to this comment | 05-31-15 2:45 PM
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27

In a cook book, talking about a "two log reduction" might be confusing.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 05-31-15 3:14 PM
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28

"Fold change" and "two log reduction" sound ungrammatical or at least unidiomatic to me. Is this a biologist thing?

How about "two e-folds smaller"?


Posted by: essear | Link to this comment | 05-31-15 3:23 PM
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29

In science we don't say "fold", and we use Latex. Grothendieck taught us these things. (Though I don't think Grothendieck used Latex. My impression was that he typed everything out on an IBM Selectric.)


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 05-31-15 3:24 PM
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30

I learned how to type on an IBM Selectric. I could do 80 words a minute in a timed test.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 05-31-15 3:26 PM
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31

Anyway, we never say "log reduction". We just write the odds ratios or whatever.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 05-31-15 3:26 PM
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32

All we need are asterisks.


Posted by: Kreskin | Link to this comment | 05-31-15 3:28 PM
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33

"You be the star."


Posted by: clew | Link to this comment | 05-31-15 3:34 PM
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34

We know our variables are statistically significant because the Bible tells us so.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 05-31-15 3:36 PM
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35

28.1: Yes.


Posted by: ydnew | Link to this comment | 05-31-15 3:51 PM
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36

Jesus loved the little variables, all the variables of the world


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 05-31-15 4:51 PM
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37

Doubt and fear and things of Earth in vain to me are calling


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 05-31-15 4:56 PM
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38

Big A, little a, bouncing b, cat's in the cupboard, but he can't catch me!


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 05-31-15 5:05 PM
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39

We are all made of asteriskstuff.


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 05-31-15 5:35 PM
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40

I'm made of five times less asteriskstuff than a typical bull.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 05-31-15 6:21 PM
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41

Though I don't think Grothendieck used Latex.

No condom joke yet? This thread is fivefold less juvenile then I expected.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 05-31-15 8:26 PM
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42

18: I thought the same thing (though "annoyed" seemed too mild).


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 05-31-15 8:28 PM
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43

41: Folded five times for enhanced pleasure.


Posted by: fake accent | Link to this comment | 05-31-15 8:59 PM
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44

41: Grothendieck did have 5 kids.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 05-31-15 11:32 PM
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45

But not in a way we'd understand.


Posted by: fake accent | Link to this comment | 06- 1-15 2:56 AM
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46

That Dutch sex Ed curriculum sounds very similar to the program in the PDBS public schools, though the latter doesn't start with the healthy relationship stuff until age 10 or so AFAIK (before that is mostly name the body parts and good touch / bad touch). They get a year or two of instruction in respect, intimacy and consent before any explicit mention of PIV.

God, I love feeling superior to those benighted red states.


Posted by: knecht ruprecht | Link to this comment | 06- 1-15 4:35 AM
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47

The other day in the park, Iris and I were wrestling a bit, and I ended up spinning her around. She yelled at me and got a little mad. Then, a bit later, she asked me to pick her up and let her flip back (something she's done since she was little). I pointed out that she'd been mad before, and she retorted that she hadn't "consented" to the previous spinning. I don't know what combination of instruction got that into her, but I praised it highly.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 06- 1-15 7:15 AM
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48

5: ... six taken two times is twelve, six taken one-half times is three ...

It's twelve only if six is fertile both times it is taken, and both pregnancies are carried to term.

I don't understand how six can be taken one-half times. This seems similar to being a little bit pregnant.


Posted by: | Link to this comment | 06- 1-15 7:17 AM
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49

48 was me. Sorry.


Posted by: marcel proust | Link to this comment | 06- 1-15 7:17 AM
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50

And then there's the American Girls branded body book (or title to that effect), which seems tolerably progressive until it has the diagram of the vulva that shows, but doesn't label, the clitoris. For crying out loud.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 06- 1-15 7:18 AM
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51

50: Really? Ugh. I bought that one because it was well-recommended and didn't bother actually reading it yet. I suppose I can annotate.


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 06- 1-15 7:19 AM
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52

God, I love feeling superior to those benighted red states.

Yeah, congrats on your kids learning consent in the same amount of time other kids can learn calculus. Bunch of little raplings you have running around out there.


Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 06- 1-15 10:29 AM
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53

||

I'm looking at you, Ogged.

For a man who lives off his wife's income, however, there is a 15% chance that he will have an affair...In the paper, she argues that men who are not earning money may feel emasculated and that taking on an extramarital affair may make them feel more manly and desirable.

|>


Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 06- 1-15 10:35 AM
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54

50-51: It's meant to be an activity to test their knowledge, like pin the tail on the donkey.


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 06- 1-15 10:39 AM
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55

53: Maybe they just have more time and opportunity.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 06- 1-15 10:46 AM
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56

They're better looking, because they have time to work out more?


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 06- 1-15 10:48 AM
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57

Maybe they were better looking to start with and that's how they got a wife who could support them.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 06- 1-15 10:50 AM
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58

The male lion strategy: "Isn't this the most regal, dignified mane you've ever seen on a predator? Now go catch me an antelope."


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 06- 1-15 10:52 AM
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59

They're more pitiable, because they've had cancer?


Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 06- 1-15 10:53 AM
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60

Women are attracted to the odor of chlorine?


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 06- 1-15 10:54 AM
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61

Home, home on the range.
Where the dear with the antelope play.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 06- 1-15 10:56 AM
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62

I can see the evolutionary advantage, the smell of chlorine suggests you have fewer parasites on you.


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 06- 1-15 10:57 AM
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63

Where seldom is heard, a discouraging word
from the yoga instructor down the way.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 06- 1-15 10:58 AM
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64

log reduction is a euphemism for a botched circumcision.


Posted by: togolosh | Link to this comment | 06- 1-15 11:26 AM
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