I suspect most of the ones who would do something like that would also think of it as being (1) fine* and (2) super bad-ass Dirty Harry Rambo stuff. People in charge of police officers - police chiefs, etc. - probably should be watching them a lot more carefully though.
*Because, seriously, before the constant filming they were absolutely getting away with all sorts of it and often they do right now even when they're being recorded.
He seems to have been okay with it.
Did you see that guy's tuck and roll? He was hamming it up for someone.
"...often they do right now even when they're being recorded."
Right. I'm not seeing that having police misconduct captured on film is making much difference, in terms of how police behave.
2 goes to a claim that the officer in question saw the youtube video of himself online and added it to a saved playlist of "police training".
But there will eventually be consequences due to recording, and those consequences will eventually lead to changes.
Right? ...right?
Has anyone seen how this incident has been playing on Fox News?
Has anyone seen how this incident has been playing on Fox News?
Not it!
6: The fact that he's already deleted the playlist in 2 suggests he was made aware he'd fucked up.
God what an idiot. If it's a party that's kind of out of hand, the entire goal is to get everyone to leave. Quit chasing everyone around and detaining them. If you start running the siren a bit when you're still a couple blocks out usually everyone runs away and you don't have to do anything. It's great.
On this subject, I'm curious what the actual laws are in the US that allow the police to break up private parties with underage drinking.
Absent a public disturbance (and frankly even with one), it just doesn't happen here. Underage drinking isn't illegal, it's the sale/procurement of alcohol for minors that is.
7: I'm hoping somebody else has a doctor's appointment or long layover today.
9: It was confusing how he was yelling at some people to stay and some to get out of there. God, what a power trip that must have been.
10: Every party like that I was ever at very clearly constituted a public disturbance by 11:00 p.m. at the latest. In addition to the noise, the yard of every neighbor would get pissed in. When I was in college, the police wouldn't show up until after midnight unless things really got out of hand. The policy was just to keep a lid on things and not try to actually stop underaged drinking. In my hometown, they'd shut down any party they got called to if they saw any evidence of underaged drinking when they came up to the party. There was never any need to worry about a warrant because the town was small enough that the police mostly knew the kids and who was under 21. Also, most of the parties were on public roads or trespassing on somebody's pasture.
I've had a similar somewhat-missing-the-point thought about Laura K/pnes's defense of sleeping with students: "Dude, you are in Evanston, just a few El stops from a whole city full of people to sleep with. Just set up a nice Tinder profile and wait for the next time the APA is in town."
Dude, you are in Evanston, just a few El stops from a whole city full of people to sleep with.
Chicago? Have some standards.
You've got something against big shoulders?
In my hometown, they'd shut down any party they got called to if they saw any evidence of underaged drinking when they came up to the party. There was never any need to worry about a warrant because the town was small enough that the police mostly knew the kids and who was under 21.
I guess my point is that in the UK it doesn't matter if the attendees are underage. If the party gets shut down (and they don't, at least not in the city) then it'll be because of the noise or violence or drugs, not because of drinking. Do they have any legal authority to do anything about the drinking if they're so inclined (again, assuming it takes place on private property)? I'm always baffled by the scenes in US films and TV shows where cops just randomly turn up and shut down a perfectly ordinary party, ostensibly just for being a party with booze and teenagers involved. I take it that's just Hollywood.
Yes, they often do have that authority, but like most law-related things in the US results may vary.
16: It's certainly not just Hollywood. When we threw parties, we counted on the fact that the cops would show up eventually. We'd have been screwed (furniture damage, no sleep till dawn) otherwise. The police followed the logic mentioned by gswift in 9. They would come into the house sometimes, but there was never any trouble if everybody who didn't live there left. I suppose we could have told them that they needed a warrant, but that would have been really stupid because it would have taken them all of ten minutes to get the warrant* and pissed them off. For high school parties, the actual owner/renter of the place of the party was never there. It was their kids. The parents might have been able to tell the cops to get lost, but they would have also been exposing themselves to very serious criminal charges if the cops found a way to prove underaged drinking by some kid who was not their.
* Cultural context matters. When it is illegal for anyone under 21 to drink legally, basically every large group of people drinking in a place that isn't legally regulated consists of people who aren't of legal age to drink. The chances that a cop could tell a judge that he observed underaged drinking and then not be able to prove he was right by making several arrests were nil.
13: I thought the subtext was rather she slept with professors when she was a student, and thought it was awesome.
My experience with going to house parties at the University was that the cops basically made three runs around the neighborhood, stopping at each party house and reciting their litany of woe: "No-selling-cups-nobody-underage-keep-the-noise-down" which, of course, everyone ignored until the third go round, when the cops were generally getting serious/annoyed.
I barely missed getting kicked out of a party (I had let early) where a close friend was dangled over a 3rd story balcony when the cops came to bust it up. Again, cultural context is critical here -- if it had been white freaks in a white freak neighborhood, the cops wouldn't have been called, or at most would have done a slow drive-by with the searchlight. And if it had just been the working class black denizens of the neighborhood, much the same, unless the police really felt like busting some heads that night. Working class black people partying in a white neighborhood would of course simply be shot out of hand.
How do you pay for the keg if you aren't selling cups? Did you guys have grants?
I am kind of OK with the cops getting involved when people are being dangled over 3rd floor balconies. Even white freaks.
18.last Is it illegal to drink underage at all, wherever you are? Here you can give your kid a drink at home when they're 5. It's illegal for under 5's to drink alcohol.
https://www.gov.uk/alcohol-young-people-law
https://www.gov.uk/alcohol-young-people-law
22: In America, the 3rd floor is what you would call the 2nd floor.
23: The actual laws are in the link in 17. But, regardless of state laws, I've never heard of anybody busted for giving their own kid a drink in their home. But that's really so very far removed from what we're talking about here.
My Swedish ex's soon to be ex-husband has been getting laid in Trollhättan. Don't talk to me about standards.
(the link was filmed there.)
What's a Hollywood movie where the cops bust up a non-out-of-hand teen party? I can't think of one. As a practical matter if the teens are quietly sipping sherry and discussing Heraclitus, the cops don't come anywhere.
In America, the 3rd floor is what you would call the 2nd floor.
EVEN SO it is above what I would characterise as the treeline or isobath dividing dangling which is merely harmless high spirits or joie de vivre and dangling which is conducted in a manner likely to cause a breach of the Queen's Peace.
Many states have exceptions for when you're with your parents or on your own private property. All four possible combinations exist in at least one state. There are also other possible exceptions. http://drinkingage.procon.org/view.resource.php?resourceID=002591
That's either the exact link dalriata put in 17 or, for some reason I can remember, I looked at a whole different page of drinking laws.
It's sort of shocking to me that only 16 states have medical exceptions, since it's the main way to treat methanol poisoning. Do doctors just ignore the law?
Sorry, I missed 17.
31: It's certainly higher than I'd be willing to dangle from and I don't even have a queen.
If you smoke too many Kools, you get methanol poisoning.
34 - Maybe they just don't card you at the emergency room, and then act all innocent later?
Local outrage people commuting might want to know that Forbes is completely blocked at CMU. I can't see why. Maybe they are getting ready to reopen.
Camera phones are getting more ubiquitious, but not suddenly enough to match the explosion in abuses that receive widespread coverage. Does this mean one could mine pre-Ferguson videos for more?
I personally never attended a party busted for underage drinking. But I know third hand of one in which the police basically coraled everyone in the house for a couple hours, charged them all, and then the prosecutor and judge worked out ex parte the community service all the kids would be sentenced to. (Third hand, so maybe it was an actual plea bargain.) Only one kid had the sense to lawyer up. He got the charges dismissed. Moral of the story: always lawyer up.
As for whether the ubiquity of cell phone video will make any difference in deterring abusive policing, I echo the sentiments above that it all depends on whether the ubiquity of cell phone video makes a difference in the consequences. Video will make it impossible to make up fictions to justify misconduct, for sure. But if those doling out consequences always knew that the fictions were fictions.... Video combined with social media has some promise, optimistically, of changing the consequences for those who dole out consequences. But optimism has screwed me in the past, so I am not ready to put faith in it here.
39: I got routed around that on a 61. I tried searching Twitter but couldn't figure out what was going on.
I looked right at it couldn't figure either. I should have asked to police.
40 is a great idea. Maybe someone like ProPublica should be on it.
Moral of the story: always lawyer up.
I don't know what it runs now, but at the time the fine for a first offense was $200. I don't think any lawyer would have billed less for a defense.
I feel like police behaving badly videos are here to stay because they're so well suited to social media, almost to a cat photo level. Instantly clickable! Immediate converaation starter!
45: "Would you like to work for justice by watching videos of teens in a pool?"
46: Alternative moral of the story: have lawyer friends / family who will cut through the crap for free!
49: The lawyer would be more than worth it if you were past 18 because otherwise it would show up when you applied for jobs and such.
More seriously, I think that's a real problem. Who among us hasn't paid a bullshit traffic ticket, e.g., because it was cheaper than disputing it? I don't know the solution.
I think they eventually linked getting MIP'ed to losing your license (even if you weren't driving). That solved the 'no reason to dispute' is problem.
A relative of mine got fined by a Central Coast city. They solicitously made it very easy for out-of-towners to pay fines and clear records remotely.
Sorry, I see that I did not make myself clear: I left. The cops showed up to roust everyone. During that process, a cop dangled one friend off a balcony.
Friend's dead now anyway, so I suppose in the grand scheme of things maybe it's not such a big deal.
Said friend was the only person who showed up to get me out of jail the next day (due to a completely unrelated matter). Damn few like him, an' they're a' deid.
Cops aren't supposed to dangle people off balconies.
I feel like police behaving badly videos are here to stay because they're so well suited to social media, almost to a cat photo level. Instantly clickable! Immediate converaation starter!
Also because the police in this country seem incapable of and uninterested in cleaning up their act.
It's the dark side to the free content creation that you assholes demanded.
I think there are many people who do not think there is any act to clean up. And maybe the cops agree at some level of preconsciousness.
In bars, I've had some tell me that, if you run, of course the cops are going to shoot you. When I observe that the Supreme Court has ruled that illegal - something I learned here, I get dismissed as a wild-eyed leftist.
And many seem to think part of the cop's job is to inflict immediate pain.
http://www.startribune.com/new-uniforms-score-points-for-modesty-for-muslim-girls/306538501/
And here I thought I was all done with crying about the immigrant experience. You read a story like this, and some tiny spark of belief in the American Creed gets fanned into flames. Somali women are so awesome. These are community-transforming initiatives started by young women in HS and college! I haven't noticed anyone reclaiming the legacy of Poly Styrene yet, but it's probably just around the corner.
I'm a bit puzzled: were the kids at that pool party allegedly drinking? I thought they were just at a place (a pool) that neighbors claimed they were not authorized to be at.
39: E-mail from the university says it's a broken water main, and "It is anticipated that Forbes, between Craig and Morewood, will remain closed through the rush hour tomorrow morning."
Ugh. Maybe I'll walk like I did going home. Thanks for the warning.
61: Sonia Samatar seems pretty seriously awesome. (It seems unsporting to compare her to Poly Styrene, though.)
57: it's how he gets results, you stupid chief.
54: ah, I see. I would regard officer-involved dangling to be undesirable even at ground level.
Possible exception: corrupt district attorneys and Russell Crowe.
And if someone's going to dangle Michael Jackson's children from a window, I'd rather it be a police officer.
Re: consequences to video, four officers in Chicago (3 Chicago PD) have been charged with perjury when the dashcam recording of a traffic stop didn't match their account.
All four officers had taken the stand to defend the traffic stop and arrest of Joseph Sperling, then 23, a Glenview resident. Chicago police Officer William Pruente had testified he smelled marijuana in Sperling's gold Ford Taurus, justifying his decision to order him from the car and to discover a backpacking containing about a pound of marijuana inside.
But while a fifth officer was on the stand, Sperling's lawyer, Steven Goldman, pulled a surprise, producing a video from a Glenview squad car at the scene that showed Pruente had immediately opened up the driver's door and had Sperling step from the car. That led the officer to admit she had lied.Oops.
I don't know why he searched that guy. I guess I'll lie.
He searched the guy to find the pot to make the arrest to met the quota to maintain the superstructure of late capitalism.
78: That was some obscure nonsensical Passover humor for those of you lucky enough not to have my brain.
Unlike the bread, you rose to the occasion.
Not that I understand what you are talking about, but I really can't complain on those grounds.
81: It was a reference to this song http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chad_Gadya#Lyrics
-- and just in case somebody might have figured out what I was talking about, I mistranslated it.
I thought you were explaining why we don't know you as "peep, the bridge-builder".
83: Eggplant beat me to it temporally and obscurationally.
Hey, dalriata, Fox was not great, though when you've got Mark Fuhrman saying maybe you're using excessive force unwisely, that seems like a slam dunk. For those who don't want to read, the young woman was no saint because the police officer told her to move and she didn't move fast enough, we're sympathetic to her because now we know she's 14 but (presumably because she's black) you could have guessed older, however it was kind of disconcerting to see a man twice her size wrestle her down, but why's it gotta be racial? Let's wait and see how the facts play out, which seems way closer to an admission of guilt than I might have expected.
Thorn bringing the soft bigotry of of low expectations of institutional bigotry.
Ug, this just another reminder to me that when you look at every big problem this country has it always comes back to slavery.
Hey, dalriata, Fox was not great, though when you've got Mark Fuhrman saying maybe you're using excessive force unwisely, that seems like a slam dunk.
Fox has Mark Fuhrmann as a contributor? Are we sure they're not just taking the piss at this point?
I said I wasn't going to watch it. I think finding a recap is more than doing my share, so I don't know!
88: What else could he possibly do?
90: I'm sure some police department would hire him.
Meanwhile, my local junior high is named after Johnnie Cochran. Which is fine by me, he did lots of very good non-OJ work, but creates a giant red flag for their efforts to diversify since they might as well have named it "Stay Away Aspirational White Parents Academy."
I have to admit to a little WAT when I heard that Cochran had been appointed as a half-secretary of state (for West Africa IIRC), knowing absolutely nothing of what he might have been up to since that time he was on the telly.
92: Vaguely related but not really: I think we've discussed before how freakishly largely Al Sharpton figures in the world view of a certain tribe of conservative white guys. Out at dinner on Saturday we were seated close enough to one of them to overhear part of his conversation. What was his take on the recent creepy revelations about Dennis Hastert, you ask? "Well I don't see the media going after Al Sharpton like this!"
As Jon Stewart notes: Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, and Obama: the only three black guys most Conservatives know by name.
Martin Luther King, whose entire career consisted of one line in one speech.
85/89: you did your share! You're a braver person than I. It's nice when they're on the defensive like that.
Then again, if the shooting in South Carolina--well, both the shootings in SC--didn't lead to people reevaluating their principles...
Alex, are you thinking of this guy?
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnnie_Carson
73: Huh. I'm surprised the officer didn't just say the odor was so strong he smelled it and reacted immediately.