did someone muck with the backend here

Re: Systems

1

Some Black Lives Matter activists

I could see Some Black Lives Matter taking off as a slogan more people would like. Has anyone suggested that???


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 08-18-15 12:39 PM
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I could see Some Black Lives Matter taking off as a slogan more people would like.

Legit:

Clinton started off with a standard politician answer, recapping her lifelong advocacy for minority children

Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 08-18-15 12:58 PM
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What a $$$$ellout whom I hate because [never explained], #feelthebern.


Posted by: Roberto Tigre | Link to this comment | 08-18-15 1:04 PM
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[never explained]

I too had an unhappy relationship experience in the '90s, but I'm not asking America to elect me prom king as consolation.


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 08-18-15 1:07 PM
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[never explained]

Really?


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 08-18-15 1:14 PM
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To be fair, it was not as bad an experience as that of La Pasionarillary.


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 08-18-15 1:14 PM
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I too had an unhappy relationship experience in the '90s, but I'm not asking America to elect me prom king as consolation.

I might be missing some levels of irony in this comment, but the notion that H.Clinton is only in this race because she was married to the president is high on the list of annoying/disingenuous objections.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 08-18-15 1:20 PM
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Thus is the wisdom of the analogy ban demonstrated.


Posted by: Tom Scudder | Link to this comment | 08-18-15 1:22 PM
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I mean, I thought the bad relationship thing was a knock on Sanders supporters, or something.


Posted by: Tom Scudder | Link to this comment | 08-18-15 1:23 PM
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Just based on the article (videophobe), I think both sides acquit themselves well. Clinton sounds intelligent enough not to come off as concern trolling. She focuses on overall movement strategy rather than scolding #BLM's tactics and articulates her own philosophy, which despite the confrontational nature of the conversation, complements #BLMs actions and goals. The #BLM people don't get into arguing her point but maintain a moral frame.


Posted by: k-sky | Link to this comment | 08-18-15 1:36 PM
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Just based on the article (videophobe), I think both sides acquit themselves well.

This was my reaction as well (and for generally the same reasons as k-sky) but mostly I was excited to think that Black Lives Matter might remain visible throughout the campaign.


Posted by: NickS | Link to this comment | 08-18-15 1:46 PM
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3 is weird. I'm not much for "sellout" as a criticism but if it sticks to anyone, it's the person who went from Marian Wright Edelman to the Clinton White House's crime bill & welfare reform (yes, she wasn't *exactly* the policy director, but until this summer I don't remember her distancing herself from it). I'm neither too excited for the Sanders candidacy for my own old and grumpy reasons, but... I mean, Halford, since when are you dismissive of social-democratic alternatives to mainstream Dem politics?


Posted by: k-sky | Link to this comment | 08-18-15 1:50 PM
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7: Yes, irredentist presidential dynasticism worked so well from 2000 through 2008.


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 08-18-15 1:56 PM
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13: Hot take!!


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 08-18-15 1:59 PM
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Ya gotta vote for a Bush or a Clinton. I don't like it either but it's a two party system.


Posted by: fake accent | Link to this comment | 08-18-15 2:08 PM
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13: I'd have voted for Michelle Obama the first time and I will next chance I get!


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 08-18-15 2:08 PM
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12 -- I was mostly responding in a juvenile way to annoyingness in my Facebook feed. I'm all for pushing the Democratic party to the left. The idea that Hillary is substantively different than any other mainstream national Democrat (all of whom need to be pushed to the left) drives me crazy and strikes me as a bizarre fallacy that I've never really understood. In fact, the mainstream of the party is substantially to the left of where it was in the 90s, and there's good evidence that on at least some issues, primarily economic ones, Hillary's on the slightly-left side of even those issues. There's nothing wrong with Bernie running in the primary and if it moves HRC towards socialism, great, but I so don't think that a presidential primary is the place to make anything more than an expressive-voting bullshit stand on those issues that almost certainly won't matter much, and I find Sanders Facebook activism annoying.

10 is the correct and more important point, and if anything is going to push her to the left, it's that kind of thing.


Posted by: Roberto Tigre | Link to this comment | 08-18-15 2:13 PM
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16: Maybe HRC will select her as VP and we can really square the dynastic circle.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 08-18-15 2:13 PM
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but until this summer I don't remember her distancing herself from it

Do you dispute Yglesias' claim from a month ago that HRC was widely recognized as the liberal voice in the Clinton WH? Or do you just mean on this specific issue?


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 08-18-15 2:59 PM
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I was prom king. I think I still have the fancy hat.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 08-18-15 3:11 PM
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*I find Sanders Facebook activism annoying.*

Isn't that a pretty generic feature of Facebook activism, though? Or do you find Sanders Facebook activism to be a special kind of annoying?


Posted by: bmox | Link to this comment | 08-18-15 3:15 PM
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19: I do not dispute.


Posted by: k-sky | Link to this comment | 08-18-15 4:47 PM
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I might not vote for Bernie, but I do enjoy the Sanders activism on Facebook. Today, my Bernie-loving Facebook friends tell me that Donald Trump is "an embarrassment for our country."

It's true and it's important, even if it is obvious. I've literally never had someone post something from Bernie that wasn't obviously correct. In a better world, being obviously correct would be a trivial virtue, but we don't live in that world.


Posted by: politicalfootball | Link to this comment | 08-18-15 5:30 PM
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I was promking. I think I still have the fancy hat.

Who did you promk?


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 08-18-15 6:16 PM
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20: We've gone this one before and you're not the only one, I'm pretty sure. My queen crown is up in the dressup box.


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 08-18-15 6:22 PM
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Promk dressup.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 08-18-15 6:32 PM
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I was just taunting Flip.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 08-18-15 6:39 PM
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[Sobs] You don't know me!


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 08-18-15 7:18 PM
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Clinton's words there are right, of course. They're also self evident to anybody left of Fox. The question is the road map from here to there. Do you shut down the mass movement on the back of some empty promises, like Obama did, and manoeuvre within the self determined elite to achieve as much as they'll let you, or do you say, 'I agree with you, I want to do it, now make me do it'.

Everything I know about Clinton suggests the former. Sanders not so much.


Posted by: chris y | Link to this comment | 08-19-15 3:42 AM
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29: The difference, I think, is that the movement in 2008 simply became the Obama movement, and so when he shut it down, there was no plausible way to pop up in another form (Occupy kind of was, but not really). Whereas there's no plausible way that HRC can (fully) co-opt #BLM*, so that, as long as they keep up the energy, they can stand outside the WH forcing her hand. Note that the gay rights movement wasn't absorbed into Obama For America, and was quite successful at pushing from the outside.

I've seen people arguing that the Sanders supporters seem almost consciously to be repeating the OFA mistake, identifying way too strongly with a candidate who won't win, in a way that seems all too likely to lead to his loss being their loss. It's endemic to the American liberal/left, it seems.

*this is possibly true of other left activism right now, such as #350 and Keystone opponents, but I'm not sure the energy is there with anyone the way it is with #BLM. Bureau of Land Management forevah!


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 08-19-15 11:40 AM
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I've seen people arguing that the Sanders supporters seem almost consciously to be repeating the OFA mistake, identifying way too strongly with a candidate who won't win, in a way that seems all too likely to lead to his loss being their loss.

This seems right to me. BLM seems way more important to me in large part because, almost by definition, it's not just about electoral politics or the Democratic party.

, 'I agree with you, I want to do it, now make me do it'.

I know for a fact that Hillary has said literally this -- I mean, the literal words -- to at least one very liberal group on a particular issue (climate).


Posted by: Roberto Tigre | Link to this comment | 08-19-15 11:54 AM
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