Re: Try do have more rhythm, everybody.

1

Chords make you a better musician? Like, the existence of chords?

Lyrics make you a better musician?

Heartbreak makes you a better person?

Practice makes you a better person? What if you're practicing your puppy-kicking technique?

IS THIS FIGURE PERHAPS BULLSHIT?


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 12-17-15 10:20 AM
horizontal rule
2

I think we need to have a talk about Venn diagrams, sweetie.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 12-17-15 10:22 AM
horizontal rule
3

1/3 clapping is totally cool if it's a polka.

Second post on that link, talking about dance parties in South Africa:

White dancers on the other hand want to jump up and down on the 2/4 beats. Even when it comes to hand clapping to a song - I see whites clapping on 2/4 and blacks on 1/3.

Wait, what?

Sometimes people get hate for being percussive on all four, but enh, that works with some music.


Posted by: dalriata | Link to this comment | 12-17-15 10:22 AM
horizontal rule
4

2: am I somehow misinterpreting the diagram? Does practicing the flute make you a better person? Or is your point that Venn diagrams are always bullshit?


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 12-17-15 10:23 AM
horizontal rule
5

1/3 clapping is totally cool if it's a polka.

The explanation for the whiteness of metal?


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 12-17-15 10:24 AM
horizontal rule
6

I think you are! Lyrics and chords are outside the pink circle.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 12-17-15 10:26 AM
horizontal rule
7

I think you are! Lyrics and chords are outside the pink circle.

Maybe you should re-read comment one.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 12-17-15 10:29 AM
horizontal rule
8

Well, 6 ought to be embarrassing.


Posted by: urple | Link to this comment | 12-17-15 10:29 AM
horizontal rule
9

It ought to be embarrassing, but I am impervious to shame. Nosflow has triumphed!


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 12-17-15 10:30 AM
horizontal rule
10

I understand not knowing which beat to clap on, but how is it that in a room full of people clapping on the same beat, there's always a couple people STILL doing it wrong? Talk about solipsism.


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 12-17-15 10:35 AM
horizontal rule
11

What beats are you supposed to clap on? I have no idea at all.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 12-17-15 10:42 AM
horizontal rule
12

Turn the beat around.


Posted by: AcademicLurker | Link to this comment | 12-17-15 10:44 AM
horizontal rule
13

What if you're clapping for the wolfman?


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 12-17-15 10:46 AM
horizontal rule
14

Where does self-awareness fall on the diagram?


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 12-17-15 10:46 AM
horizontal rule
15

Best musical Venn diagram. (Posted here previously I believe.)


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 12-17-15 10:49 AM
horizontal rule
16

I clap on 2, 3, 5 and 7.


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 12-17-15 10:55 AM
horizontal rule
17

Isn't music like dancing in that where the strongest beat is depends on the type of music/dance? As above, the polka is 1-3, but salsa is 2-4, and the waltz is like 1?

But overall clapping to the beat is wrong* and annoying because no one ever knows when to stop.

*exception for Rocky Road to Dublin


Posted by: hydrobatidae | Link to this comment | 12-17-15 10:56 AM
horizontal rule
18

Just try to clap on 2 & 4 with a waltz. Can't be done.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 12-17-15 10:57 AM
horizontal rule
19

18: Sure it can. You could write out a waltz in 6/8 time, in which case clapping on 2 and 4 would be a little unorthodox (particularly the 2) but not impossible.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 12-17-15 11:00 AM
horizontal rule
20

NOW who's a LB???


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 12-17-15 11:01 AM
horizontal rule
21

I've learned not to clap.


Posted by: peep | Link to this comment | 12-17-15 11:22 AM
horizontal rule
22

What beats are you supposed to clap on?

All of them.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 12-17-15 11:24 AM
horizontal rule
23

There are songs where it sounds awesome when a bunch of people are clapping on the 2 and 4 and some other people are clapping on the 1 and 3.


Posted by: Bave | Link to this comment | 12-17-15 11:30 AM
horizontal rule
24

Are they children's songs?


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 12-17-15 11:31 AM
horizontal rule
25

I don't even hear beats.

I got knocked to the ground during the moshing at a Prodigy concert because I was out sync with everyone else. But maybe I was actually on 2/4 and the lame Germans were on 1/3¡


Posted by: X. Trapnel | Link to this comment | 12-17-15 11:33 AM
horizontal rule
26

Venn diagrams are always bullshit

This is an Euler diagram, though. (and also it is bullshit but let's get our labels straight.)


Posted by: E. Messily | Link to this comment | 12-17-15 11:34 AM
horizontal rule
27

Are Euler diagrams a subset of Venn diagrams?


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 12-17-15 11:35 AM
horizontal rule
28

11 is right. And how do you even know which beat is 1 if you didn't happen to be paying attention at the start.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 12-17-15 11:37 AM
horizontal rule
29

Germans are in a superposition of clapping and not-clapping states.


Posted by: Eggplant | Link to this comment | 12-17-15 11:38 AM
horizontal rule
30

27- almost


Posted by: E. Messily | Link to this comment | 12-17-15 11:39 AM
horizontal rule
31

Chuck Berry said "it's got a back beat, you can't lose it" but I guess white people do lose it.

But is the premise really true? At a Bob Seger concert, surely Bob and the overwhelmingly white audience is not clapping on the ones and threes to the whitest song known to man, "Old Time Rock and Roll." I can't play this with sound right now but maybe someone who can can check it.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 12-17-15 11:40 AM
horizontal rule
32

Do people clap along to Meshuggah? I've never seen them live so I don't know, but that seems like it would be hard.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 12-17-15 11:43 AM
horizontal rule
33

Pretty sure I once saw someone headbanging at a Ruins concert.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 12-17-15 11:44 AM
horizontal rule
34

Does one bang their head on the 1 and 3?


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 12-17-15 11:45 AM
horizontal rule
35

I think no, it's generally on the 2 and 4, though sometimes the headbanging just follows the guitar riff. I'm trying to reconstruct from memory though.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 12-17-15 11:46 AM
horizontal rule
36

35: If you still have memory, you weren't headbanging correctly.


Posted by: peep | Link to this comment | 12-17-15 11:48 AM
horizontal rule
37

28 was a serious question that I was hoping somebody could answer.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 12-17-15 11:49 AM
horizontal rule
38

Damn you Wikihow.com! Your "how to headbang" tutorial did not answer this question.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 12-17-15 11:50 AM
horizontal rule
39

Most humans have a deep level of beat recognition, although it's probably trained culturally. I'm pretty sure you could listen to at least any western music you don't know, start at some point in the middle, and find the beat.


Posted by: dalriata | Link to this comment | 12-17-15 11:53 AM
horizontal rule
40

Of course I can find the beat. I just watch when other people clap. But I'm wondering if there's something less socially constructed.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 12-17-15 11:57 AM
horizontal rule
41

28, 37: I think musically-significant things like chord changes and the beginnings of melodic phrases tend to happen (not always, but more often) at the beginning of a measure, so on One. It's something you can usually feel more easily than you can specifically identify, ime.

I know there are actual musicians around who can add/correct as needed.



Posted by: Osgood Yousbad | Link to this comment | 12-17-15 12:03 PM
horizontal rule
42

This is going to turn out to be one of those completely made up things like "love," isn't it.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 12-17-15 12:05 PM
horizontal rule
43

I always clap at the beginning of love.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 12-17-15 12:06 PM
horizontal rule
44

That's how I could tell you were white.


Posted by: E. Messily | Link to this comment | 12-17-15 12:08 PM
horizontal rule
45

It's less insulting than clapping at the end of love.


Posted by: dalriata | Link to this comment | 12-17-15 12:09 PM
horizontal rule
46

42: It's more like one of those made up things like "language."


Posted by: dalriata | Link to this comment | 12-17-15 12:09 PM
horizontal rule
47

So made up but useful.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 12-17-15 12:10 PM
horizontal rule
48

eeeooooooeeeeeee ooooooooooooaoaaa rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgggggggggggggggggghhhhhhhhh


Posted by: Opiniated pre-linguistic man | Link to this comment | 12-17-15 12:11 PM
horizontal rule
49

I always get the clap at the beginning of love.

FTFY.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 12-17-15 12:46 PM
horizontal rule
50

And end it when you get syphilis.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 12-17-15 12:57 PM
horizontal rule
51

So is "try do" an apposition, or what?


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 12-17-15 1:04 PM
horizontal rule
52

It's a deliberate attempt to troll neb and Yoda.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 12-17-15 1:06 PM
horizontal rule
53

It's a pun on deux/dos/etc, leaving us to reflect on how we really should clap on the even numbers.


Posted by: dalriata | Link to this comment | 12-17-15 1:30 PM
horizontal rule
54

28: I believe this is a sincere question, and it's an interesting one to me. I'm in the middle of teaching syncopation to groups of 30-40 people many of whom have the same question. A few months ago someone asked if I would mind counting them in "4,3,2,1" (instead of "1,2,3,4") so that she would know when to begin. (I'm not going to do that, but the question got me curious about how they're thinking about rhythm.)

Anyway, I was wondering if you'd be willing to try something. What happens if you listen to a song and clap on every beat, somewhere no one's going to hear you and you're not worried about how you're heard. After a while, clap on every other beat, imagining that someone else is taking care of the ones you're not doing. After a good long while of that, see if you can switch places with the "other person".

If you can do this, I'm going to guess that your first alternating pattern was 1 and 3, and your second 2 and 4, but I'm not really after that yet, more wondering if you can find that switch. I know this doesn't answer you question *yet*, but if you let me know what happens I'll try to answer it. It is a good question.


Posted by: Penny | Link to this comment | 12-17-15 1:56 PM
horizontal rule
55

I like to be helpful, but I got a lot going on what with work, looking for different work, Christmas, and the war on Christmas.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 12-17-15 2:01 PM
horizontal rule
56

Ha! Okay then, no pressure.
It occurred to me right after I posted, even easier than the clapping thing might be hitting alternating beats on two different surfaces, like a table and a chair, making one hand really loud and the other one quiet, then reversing the volume. This might give a sense of how one feels different from the other.
Stanley?


Posted by: Penny | Link to this comment | 12-17-15 2:15 PM
horizontal rule
57

I may have missed this, but how did the interview go?


Posted by: Penny | Link to this comment | 12-17-15 2:17 PM
horizontal rule
58

One went well. I'll have others. There isn't time pressure.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 12-17-15 2:22 PM
horizontal rule
59

3: 1/3 clapping is totally cool if it's a polka.

Hence why polka is Never Okay.

Friends don't let friends, people. Perhaps you know someone who's experimenting with going to Oktoberfest, drinking out of beer steins, pretending they just listen to Weird Al polkas for the jokes. It's a short but slippery slope! Next thing you know they're NAZIS. Don't let your friends turn into NAZIS. Increase the peace with 2/4 clapping.


Posted by: Lord Castock | Link to this comment | 12-17-15 2:27 PM
horizontal rule
60

If you draw a "things that make you a better data analyst" and "things that make you a better person" Venn diagram during the interview, I'm betting you'll be a sure thing for the position.


Posted by: AcademicLurker | Link to this comment | 12-17-15 2:30 PM
horizontal rule
61

Speaking of interviewing, Witt, I thought I had your email, but maybe it was the wrong one. Then the odds of moving got confusing, so I forgot to follow-up.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 12-17-15 2:41 PM
horizontal rule
62

Most humans have a deep level of beat recognition, although it's probably trained culturally.

It might be innate; maybe a product of our facility with vocal mimicry.


Posted by: Sifu Tweety | Link to this comment | 12-17-15 3:00 PM
horizontal rule
63

This is very odd: How To Clap Along To Music youtube video.


Posted by: NickS | Link to this comment | 12-17-15 3:03 PM
horizontal rule
64

I'm not very good at that either. I can't do voices or anything.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 12-17-15 3:03 PM
horizontal rule
65

Advanced lessons to include knowing where the pulse is, abd then just dragging the beat slightly?

Enforced Jo Jones/Freddie Green, etc


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 12-17-15 3:03 PM
horizontal rule
66

So is "try do" an apposition, or what?

Good ol' typo. We can't all by sauseglyes.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 12-17-15 4:03 PM
horizontal rule
67

Also on Facebook, a bunch of my colleagues are doing "describe your favorite book in six words and let everyone guess it!" and I want to guess things like "Eat, Pray, Love" and the Bible but I guess I'll just comment over here instead.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 12-17-15 4:25 PM
horizontal rule
68

"Commercial whaling voyage changed my life."


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 12-17-15 8:18 PM
horizontal rule
69

"My dead dad wants big payback."


Posted by: lourdes kayak | Link to this comment | 12-17-15 9:36 PM
horizontal rule
70

"Geriatric founds interracial jewelry recycling program"


Posted by: dalriata | Link to this comment | 12-17-15 9:54 PM
horizontal rule
71

"Epic gallows comedy about fatal entertainments."


Posted by: Lord Castock | Link to this comment | 12-17-15 10:55 PM
horizontal rule
72

There's a hilarious youtubey video of some pop jazz dude whose name completely escapes me, jimmy something?, doing a concert in la belle france and the audience is clapping on 1 & 3 so he throws in a 5/4 bar et voilà! Zey are instahntly hippères!


Posted by: dairy queen | Link to this comment | 12-17-15 11:24 PM
horizontal rule
73

"Pseudo stupid stammerer secretly super Caesar"


Posted by: Barry Freed | Link to this comment | 12-17-15 11:56 PM
horizontal rule
74

re: 72

Harry Connick, I think. I saw the video linked in a previous discussion of people clapping on the wrong beat.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 12-18-15 3:59 AM
horizontal rule
75

"will ivan really return his ticket?"
"everyone is a phoney; also, ducks."


Posted by: alameida | Link to this comment | 12-18-15 4:43 AM
horizontal rule
76

"It's recursion all the way down"


Posted by: Ginger Yellow | Link to this comment | 12-18-15 5:44 AM
horizontal rule
77

"Found a spoon - made my day."


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 12-18-15 6:15 AM
horizontal rule
78

"Lots and lots of 70s hijackers"


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 12-18-15 6:23 AM
horizontal rule
79

"Let me explain this poem: Zembla!"


Posted by: lw | Link to this comment | 12-18-15 3:13 PM
horizontal rule
80

This video. After he does it the drummer cheers. The audience seems to contain only very attractive people, possibly because it's in FRANCE?


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 12-18-15 3:52 PM
horizontal rule
81

Oh man, that video makes me happy. Didn't think I was a fan before but am now.


Posted by: Penny | Link to this comment | 12-19-15 9:29 AM
horizontal rule
82

I have no idea what it means to clap on 1/3 or 2/4. It seems like the kind of thing a good youtube video could clear up in a minute (music, highlight appropriate number corresponding to beat) but I haven't found one.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 12-19-15 10:03 AM
horizontal rule
83

Music people have always pissed me off by using words they seem to know and that other music people seem to know but that have no actual meaning they can express in a way that is comprehensible to people.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 12-19-15 10:11 AM
horizontal rule
84

Even if they can provide a reasonable definition, you have to practically beat it out of them. Somehow "middle C" is supposed to be easier to understand than "261.6 Hertz."


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 12-19-15 10:13 AM
horizontal rule
85

82: Watch this (which explains the Harry Connick Jr. thing).


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 12-19-15 10:14 AM
horizontal rule
86

I thought you meant it would explain how Harry Connick Jr. has a career, but no.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 12-19-15 10:17 AM
horizontal rule
87

I would tolerate any amount at 1/3 if audiences weren't liable to burst into clapping on the drop of a hat.


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 12-19-15 10:18 AM
horizontal rule
88

82 annotated bit from nosflows video should clear it up here


Posted by: wry coder | Link to this comment | 12-19-15 10:21 AM
horizontal rule
89

Anyway, the upshot is that almost all pop/rock/EDM/whatever music is in 4/4 time: 4 beats to a measure. If you listen to Seven Nation Army, hear how it starts out with a steady, constant drum and cymbal beat? Then around the 33-second mark, Meg White adds in a snare drum, but she doesn't hit it on every beat, only every other one. So then the beat becomes tom-snare-tom-snare. The tom beats are the 1st and 3rd beats of each measure, the snares are the 2nd and 4th.

Does that help?


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 12-19-15 10:23 AM
horizontal rule
90

Oh and once you've figured out what a measure is, if you pay attention you notice all sorts of patterns in popular music. Usually songs are broken up into blocks based on multiples of 4, so every 4 or 8 or 12 or 16 measures *something* will change, whether it's a rhythmic element or adding in a vocal or switching from a verse to the chorus. The easiest one to pick out is the instrumental intro at the start of almost all songs you hear on the radio.

I'm sure Stanley is cringing right now reading my explanations.


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 12-19-15 10:31 AM
horizontal rule
91

82: Here you go.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 12-19-15 10:36 AM
horizontal rule
92

How does it work if Megan White isn't in the song?


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 12-19-15 10:37 AM
horizontal rule
93

Is the the first ever reference to her as "Megan White"?


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 12-19-15 10:42 AM
horizontal rule
94

The video linked in 63 isn't exactly good (it's way too long for one thing) but it is funny (sometimes unintentionally) and does explain quite a bit (and makes the same snare drum point that Josh makes in 89)

This is important. If somebody hands you a tambourine -- hand it back.

Posted by: NickS | Link to this comment | 12-19-15 10:46 AM
horizontal rule
95

93: I have never met her and didn't want to presume.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 12-19-15 10:51 AM
horizontal rule
96

At our church, each tambourine has its owner's name on it to encourage responsible, credentialed use. You don't want albeit catching the spirit and just grabbing a tambourine, though if happens.


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 12-19-15 10:57 AM
horizontal rule
97

I don't hear beats.


Posted by: fake accent | Link to this comment | 12-19-15 10:57 AM
horizontal rule
98

Albeit s/b anyone.


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 12-19-15 10:57 AM
horizontal rule
99

The video in 63 is incredibly long and as of 1/6th through it hasn't actually given any useful information.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 12-19-15 11:05 AM
horizontal rule
100

The video in 63 is incredibly long and as of 1/6th through it hasn't actually given any useful information.

Both of those things are true. The information (such as it is*) comes after the opening song.

* I thought there was useful information, but mostly I found the whole thing amusing because it's so strange.


Posted by: NickS | Link to this comment | 12-19-15 11:11 AM
horizontal rule
101

The Seven Nation Army thing helps, because they're actually making a sound on the beat, so I can identify it. With the annotated Connick video, I'm like, clap whenever, it's all the same!


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 12-19-15 11:18 AM
horizontal rule
102

Which is to say, I'm hopeless, don't try to help me.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 12-19-15 11:20 AM
horizontal rule
103

Learned helplessness is such a sad thing.


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 12-19-15 11:38 AM
horizontal rule
104

Ogged, what are you not understanding? A 4/4 beat is just one-two-three-four, one-two-three-four, one-two-three-four, which is most pop and rock music. Listen to the beginning of the Harry Connick thing and you can hear it: one-two-three-four, one-two-three-four. In contrast, there's what's called a 3/4 beat: one-two-three, one-two-three, one-two-three -- think of a waltz, and envision people waltzing around, one-two-three, one-two-three, one-two, three. (I leave out stuff about why there's a 4 in 3/4.)

With a 4/4 beat, the emphasis is everything: it can be ONE-two-THREE-four, ONE-two-THREE-four, ONE-two-THREE-four, etc.

Or it can be one-TWO-three-FOUR, one-TWO-three-FOUR, one-TWO-three-FOUR, etc.

The clapping on 1/3 versus 2/4 changes the feel of the piece. I mean, it's all good, you can clap on whichever beat if you like, but you must at least see what's meant by clapping on 1/3 or 2/4?


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 12-19-15 11:55 AM
horizontal rule
105

I add: isn't one of your kids taking piano lessons? Does he have a metronome? I say, get him a metronome, and then ask him to teach you about beats (time signatures) and how to clap on different beats. It's fascinating, I tell you!


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 12-19-15 12:01 PM
horizontal rule
106

Maybe it'd help to listen to something that breaks the rules? Sometimes musicians get tricky and do stuff like 5/4 (for an entire song, not like what Connick did), which is usually 3/4 and 2/4 alternating--one two three one two / one two three one two. Like so, probably the most famous "odd" time signature song.


Posted by: dalriata | Link to this comment | 12-19-15 12:11 PM
horizontal rule
107

There should be a feeling of tension in that song: like there's too much going on, which gives it an instability that drives it forward. Try tapping it out. The most pronounced bass beat is on one, and in the main piano riff Duh DUH duh DUH / DUH DUH the last two are on four and five, with the first four hits unevenly dividing up the first three beats of the measure.

All that should just feel weird, so if you go back to listening to just about any normal pop or rock song hopefully the stress on two and four seems more natural.


Posted by: dalriata | Link to this comment | 12-19-15 12:14 PM
horizontal rule
108

I understand the thing mathematically, but the clapping on the Connick song sounded off and then sounded right but I couldn't identify where it changed without that annotated video. I don't think I'd have noticed it at all if I'd been in the audience and hadn't been trying to listen for it.


Posted by: fake accent | Link to this comment | 12-19-15 12:18 PM
horizontal rule
109

I appreciate it, folks, but unless the drummer is actually hitting the drums right on what everyone is calling the beat, I have no idea where the beat is. Go back to your lives, citizens.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 12-19-15 12:19 PM
horizontal rule
110

82 et seq. remind me of this classic thread.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 12-19-15 12:21 PM
horizontal rule
111

All you need to understand the difference: find a video of The Radetzky March from any New Year's Day concert (whitest musical thing in the known universe) and then I don't know, Aretha Franklin doing Think. That should clear things up.


Posted by: dairy queen | Link to this comment | 12-19-15 12:27 PM
horizontal rule
112

What's Michelle Shocked's preferred beat?


Posted by: fake accent | Link to this comment | 12-19-15 12:27 PM
horizontal rule
113

109: I have no idea where the beat is

You are being stubborn, babe, god love ya. If people are clapping on a particular beat, it's the equivalent of the drummer hitting on a particular beat.

You know what a putting an accent on a certain syllable in speaking is, don't you? I can say, for example, for the word "student", either "STU-dent" or "stu-DENT". So with musical emphasis or accent.

I'm telling you, ask your kid to teach you. It'll be a bonding experience, child teaches father.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 12-19-15 12:41 PM
horizontal rule
114

Anyways laid up with a cold, but now amused by imagining ogged attempting to dance at weddings. Thanks ogged!


Posted by: dairy queen | Link to this comment | 12-19-15 12:52 PM
horizontal rule
115

Re: 109

Did you do that time keeping test, where you get a beat, it stops, and you maintain the pulse?

http://www.thelooploft.com/blogs/ryans-corner/38917697-can-you-keep-perfect-time-take-this-test-and-find-out

When you are tapping, you are tapping the pulse.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 12-19-15 12:54 PM
horizontal rule
116

Re: 109

Did you do that time keeping test, where you get a beat, it stops, and you maintain the pulse?

http://www.thelooploft.com/blogs/ryans-corner/38917697-can-you-keep-perfect-time-take-this-test-and-find-out

When you are tapping, you are tapping the pulse.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 12-19-15 12:54 PM
horizontal rule
117

So what's the difference between the beat and the pulse? Beat implies that it's broken up into measures?


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 12-19-15 1:00 PM
horizontal rule
118

I wasn't using it as a term of art, but you might have a groove where the drummer is only playing beats on maybe one of those pulses, or even none if it's really syncopated but all of the musicians are still locked into the mental pulse even if none of them are playing notes on those beats.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 12-19-15 1:04 PM
horizontal rule
119

113: Assumptions! I encountered someone in a poetry class who just did not get the concept of specific syllables being accented.


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 12-19-15 1:04 PM
horizontal rule
120

I passed the timekeeping test when listening to Laurie Anderson's "O Superman (for Massenet)".

Next level will be CSV Soundsystem; loser gets Skrillex.


Posted by: Econolicious | Link to this comment | 12-19-15 1:09 PM
horizontal rule
121

119: Okay, but Ogged will have to say whether he allegedly suffers from that disability as well.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 12-19-15 1:10 PM
horizontal rule
122

116: What's a good score on that? I have moderately shit rhythm and got an 843/100. (I know it's gauche to ask about scores, so please also report your income and which boarding school you went to.)


Posted by: dalriata | Link to this comment | 12-19-15 1:27 PM
horizontal rule
123

Also shit rhythm, also in the 800s.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 12-19-15 1:41 PM
horizontal rule
124

Yeah, I got 836, so it must be that only 900 and above is decent. Actually, I tapped the table for about a minute before I realized that maybe I should be interacting with the computer, but that's not really a rhythm problem.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 12-19-15 1:49 PM
horizontal rule
125

808 would be the shibboleth of scores.


Posted by: Econolicious | Link to this comment | 12-19-15 1:49 PM
horizontal rule
126

886! I mean, in this situation, the beat is being marked by a sound, and I can follow that, but this notion that there are four beats and you can clap on 1,2,3 or 4 is completely mysterious.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 12-19-15 1:55 PM
horizontal rule
127

103 to 126.


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 12-19-15 2:01 PM
horizontal rule
128

It's more complex than that.

According to previous comments from ogged, Iranians don't like Indians for some reason, and Indian music is rhythmically intricate. Ogged refuses to let himself gain even a smattering of rhythmic sophistication, lest he come to understand those he hates.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 12-19-15 2:03 PM
horizontal rule
129

For example.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 12-19-15 2:04 PM
horizontal rule
130

I'm sure Stanley is cringing right now reading my explanations.

Nope, all that made sense to me. And I thought parsi's "ONE-two-THREE-four" vs. "one-TWO-three-FOUR" was also helpful. But then I remembered: ogged is beyond help on this topic.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 12-19-15 2:41 PM
horizontal rule
131

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ORHVroiWHk

vs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsL9UL9qbv8


Posted by: dairy queen | Link to this comment | 12-19-15 3:18 PM
horizontal rule
132

||

This Christmas mix from Lord Castock is still very good. And the download link still appears to work!

|>


Posted by: k-sky | Link to this comment | 12-19-15 3:28 PM
horizontal rule
133

I may know when to clap, but not where.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7vc-Uvp3vwg


Posted by: Econolicious | Link to this comment | 12-19-15 4:08 PM
horizontal rule
134

First scene of "White Christmas", two minutes in, there are 1-3 clappers and 2-4 clappers and it's what makes this country great.

The rest of the movie, well, the kind of thing you like if you like that kind of thing.


Posted by: Opinionated Bing Crosby | Link to this comment | 12-19-15 4:34 PM
horizontal rule
135

(I would link a youtube of the Grateful Dead playing The Eleven, which is 11/8, but the wifi where I am blocks youtube.)


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 12-19-15 6:04 PM
horizontal rule
136

Hi folks!--I've collected a bunch of opinions and explanations regarding the clapping thing, and others, at this link (click on my name). This is originally from my blog "That of Lowly Pwuth."


Posted by: Gordon | Link to this comment | 12-19-15 6:17 PM
horizontal rule
137

Track 10: https://archive.org/details/gd75-09-28.sbd.fink.9392.sbeok.shnf


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 12-19-15 6:42 PM
horizontal rule
138

Dave Brubeck's "Take Five" is a pretty well-known song with an irregular time signature: five beats per measure, rather than four.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 12-19-15 6:48 PM
horizontal rule
139

Music Thread winding down;time to troll with tonight's playlist

Grant McLennan;Magic Sam;Red Devils;Jimmy McCracklin;Marianne Faithfull;Sleepy John Estes;Fiona Boyes;Bach (Violin Partita);Judee Sill;Merle Haggard;Oscar/Peterson/Milt Jackson;Quicksilver Messenger Service;Linda Ronstadt;Talking Heads;The Moors;Jefferson Airplane;Roy Orbison;Pink Floyd;Chuck Berry;Al Basile;Rocketship;Acoustic Alchemy;Bobby Blue Bland;Tristania!;Dolly Parton;Lyle Lovett;Mollie O'Brien;Tchaikovsky;Mazzy Star;Django Reinhardt;Ben Webster....album tracks, not hits of course...Long night;started early;reading Yoichi Funabashi Examining Japan's Lost Decades;gonna watch, oh never mind y'all won't have heard of that either

Don't do Xmas anymore


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 12-19-15 7:12 PM
horizontal rule
140

Hm six word favorite novel. Abbreviating its own best line "no-one came because no-one ever does."


Posted by: Mister Smearcase | Link to this comment | 12-19-15 7:16 PM
horizontal rule
141

Scored badly on rhythm. Better at pitch-matching! Though not as good as some people.


Posted by: Mister Smearcase | Link to this comment | 12-19-15 7:21 PM
horizontal rule
142

FTFYprobably the most famous "odd" time signature song.

It took me probably a decade to get the title of O Superman.


Posted by: Mister Smearcase | Link to this comment | 12-19-15 7:30 PM
horizontal rule
143

Don't do Xmas anymore

I accidentally participated in the War on the War on Christmas. I thought I was just buying regular religious Christmas cards to send to family, but on the back they seem a bit combative about the holiday. And I bought them at church. Maybe last year they had people who were expecting the cards to say "Seasons Greetings" or name check Odin.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 12-19-15 7:46 PM
horizontal rule
144

142: FWIW I didn't even know until just now that there was anything to get.


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 12-19-15 8:02 PM
horizontal rule
145

I still don't get it.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 12-19-15 8:03 PM
horizontal rule
146

This may help.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 12-19-15 8:09 PM
horizontal rule
147

I saw the not-opera one with Charlton Heston.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 12-19-15 8:35 PM
horizontal rule
148

137: AIMHMHB a friend of mine defined "Deadhead" as anyone who has more copies of The Eleven than you do. So anything under fifteen, no problem. You can take it or leave it alone. Not an alcoholic, just a heavy social drinker.

There is also Estimated Prophet, which is in something like 7/4


Posted by: NW | Link to this comment | 12-19-15 10:35 PM
horizontal rule
149

Bulgarian folk music has the most complex time signatures I've heard yet. You can tell that the beat must correspond to dance steps, like this tune, in 7/16, played by a band that usually plays Breton music, but in songs like this it's almost impossible to count.


Posted by: Ume | Link to this comment | 12-20-15 3:02 AM
horizontal rule
150

I couldn't get above 680 on that beat test. Told you I was terrible.


Posted by: X. Trapnel | Link to this comment | 12-20-15 5:40 AM
horizontal rule
151

Ivo Papasov and ... one other Bulgarian wedding music player whose name I can't recall are beloved of (parts of) the progressive rock community for just that reason. Wayside Music has some of Papasov's albums.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 12-20-15 9:16 AM
horizontal rule
152

Yuri Yunakov is the person whose name I couldn't remember.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 12-20-15 9:17 AM
horizontal rule
153

Nightmusic was kind of an amazing show.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 12-20-15 9:18 AM
horizontal rule
154

That's sure true. I hadn't heard of it until I followed that link. Who knew that was on the air.


Posted by: RT | Link to this comment | 12-20-15 10:42 AM
horizontal rule
155

I'll never forget the performance of sacre du ptintemps on tour when the conductor was seriously the worse for wear after a long night presumably involving wine women song and he lost his place in the score. Lots of rehearsals paid off for sure!


Posted by: dairy queen | Link to this comment | 12-20-15 11:56 AM
horizontal rule
156

Le Sacre du Pinterest.


Posted by: Mister Smearcase | Link to this comment | 12-20-15 12:02 PM
horizontal rule
157

Ha! The horn section was right in front of the timpanis and that dude was key to keeping everyone on track. It was a very intense experience.


Posted by: dairy queen | Link to this comment | 12-20-15 12:25 PM
horizontal rule
158

Re: 150

Phone or computer? I score about 50 less on phone, presumably because of how touch screens work.

Bragging, though, I usually score around 910-920. With odd dips above or below.

My best skill as a musician is that my basic sense of time and ability to be in time (non-exotic time signatures, non-extreme tempos) is really quite good.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 12-20-15 2:55 PM
horizontal rule
159

149: I've learned a few of the folk dances to those & similar Turkish tunes. Some of them run on a series of prime-number measures and you have to clap or shout at specific moments and it's obvious if you get it wrong or even are hesitant and there are teams, sometimes. Men vs women or two teams of each.

The Western equivalents have simple time signatures, usually 16 measures of 4/4 or 6/8, but the puzzle involves sudden changes of direction and if you make a mistake you crash into someone. ("Other left!")


Posted by: clew | Link to this comment | 12-20-15 9:08 PM
horizontal rule
160

"Clap every 997th beat."


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 12-20-15 9:13 PM
horizontal rule
161

Flamenco has similar rhythmic patterns. The clapping here, for example (chosen because the guitar playing is totally amazing, rhythmically):

http://youtu.be/2BCoZiSbGtY

The clappng and guitar accents come together and pull apart as the cycle moves.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 12-21-15 2:54 AM
horizontal rule
162

Speaking of rhythm, this has a monster groove (great dancing, too) but if you try to pay attention to or count what the drummer(s) are doing, it's impossible:

http://youtu.be/wmN3vFIukk4

Really recommended.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 12-21-15 3:39 AM
horizontal rule
163

I watched that and, between watching the dancing and wondering about dry cleaning bills, I forgot to pay attention to the rhythm section. Very good.


Posted by: Eggplant | Link to this comment | 12-21-15 9:11 AM
horizontal rule
164

Clacking on the downbeat.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 12-24-15 10:09 AM
horizontal rule