Re: Is it your falcon?

1

now let's say you and i go toe to toe on bird law and see who comes out the victor


Posted by: Clytaemnestra Stabby | Link to this comment | 08-19-16 10:39 AM
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r/legaladvice is an amazing read. Especially when the question asker is clearly guilty of something.


Posted by: dalriata | Link to this comment | 08-19-16 10:42 AM
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3

I want to a picture. I got to know what a $1,000 a pop chihuahua looks like.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 08-19-16 10:42 AM
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4

I am so lucky I didn't read that at work.


Posted by: Mossy Character | Link to this comment | 08-19-16 10:45 AM
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1: Has your new coworker come in yet to see your Image Search for "falcon-eaten dog"?


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 08-19-16 11:15 AM
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In the best of all possible worlds all chihuahuas would be eaten. Being eaten by falcons is a bonus, but an alligator, a raccoon, or a sufficiently hungry street person would do at a pinch.


Posted by: chris y | Link to this comment | 08-19-16 11:18 AM
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7

In this country, bird law is not governed by reason.


Posted by: R Tigre | Link to this comment | 08-19-16 11:22 AM
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8

Also, I guess it's a sign of how ludicrous my work is that this didn't even strike me as funny. I mean, unusually there's a reasonably clear legal answer here, but nothing else about this story seems that weird.


Posted by: R Tigre | Link to this comment | 08-19-16 11:24 AM
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5, no he did come in while I was searching google scholar for "leg length cheekbones." I figured if he had the temerity to ask I'd tell him I was working on sexual harassment case. (I suppose I was insofar as I was laying the foundation for his own eventual hostile work environment claim.)

He's rid of me now, and I'm on my way to the wilderness where God willing a falcon will eat my 70 pound dog, who is driving me crazy.


Posted by: Clytaemnestra Stabby | Link to this comment | 08-19-16 11:27 AM
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7 a I love about bird lawyer Charlie is that he's right about procedure a surprising amount of the time.


Posted by: Clytaemnestra Stabby | Link to this comment | 08-19-16 11:29 AM
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8: I mean I didn't think it was, like, laugh-out-loud funny, but I do think a deadpan "is it your falcon?" as a question is amusing.

Also, a commenter on reddit also posted that Charlie Kelly clip.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 08-19-16 11:29 AM
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"Is it your falcon?" is excellent (and has a lot in common with the best questions on cross).


Posted by: Clytaemnestra Stabby | Link to this comment | 08-19-16 11:33 AM
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I just broke my "no reddit at the new job" personal policy for the first time since starting the new job. Worth it. Hell with it, of the 11 tabs or windows I already had open only 5 were work-related to begin with, and it's Friday afternoon.

2: Agreed. It's one of the more fun subs.


Posted by: Cyrus | Link to this comment | 08-19-16 11:49 AM
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If you're wondering about what this is all like from the falcon's point of view there's a pretty silly song about it.


Posted by: Clytaemnestra Stabby | Link to this comment | 08-19-16 12:09 PM
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I don't understand how it could be even close to clear that the guy isn't guilty of negligence for leaving a very small and very valuable dog outside unattended like that. I mean, he may not be guilty of negligence, but surely that's a question that would need to be decided at trial.


Posted by: urple | Link to this comment | 08-19-16 12:12 PM
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"The risk [of falcons] reasonably to be perceived defines the duty [to stop falcons] to be obeyed[.]" Palsgraf v Long Island R.R. Co, 248 NY 339 (1928) (Cardozo, J.)


Posted by: Clytaemnestra Stabby | Link to this comment | 08-19-16 12:18 PM
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"Is it your falcon?" is excellent (and has a lot in common with the best questions on cross).

Now I'm picturing Jack McCoy or Perry Mason cross examining the accused and suddenly producing a bird from under their jacket and demanding "Is this your falcon!?"


Posted by: AcademicLurker | Link to this comment | 08-19-16 12:20 PM
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18

Hire Sam Spade to track down the falcon. He's got experience in such matters.


Posted by: My Alter Ego | Link to this comment | 08-19-16 12:27 PM
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19

The behavior of the woman is bizarre and hilarious, until she starts beating on her kid.


Posted by: Barry Freed | Link to this comment | 08-19-16 12:37 PM
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If I were to shout "FALCON!" in a crowded theater, could I be held responsible for the ensuing chihuahua stampede?


Posted by: My Alter Ego | Link to this comment | 08-19-16 12:39 PM
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15:

1. At least half of the amusement is because "Is this your falcon?" is just plain funny. It's not impossible that the falcon could be domestic, since domestic raptors exist, but it's much, much more likely to be a wild animal, especially in Washington state. Ergo, the question is almost - but not quite! - ridiculous.

2. Eh, IANAL, I guess I wouldn't be totally surprised if there was some kind of case there. But no one has any control over what wild birds do on their property, the OP had no idea the dog was worth that much, and leaving a dog unattended in a fenced-in area for a few minutes (I'm assuming it was only a few minutes, but the OP wasn't specific) would generally be considered more than adequate care.


Posted by: Cyrus | Link to this comment | 08-19-16 12:41 PM
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If the dog was worth $10,000, then it seems negligent to let your 10 yo daughter take it to a rural property. Also, if the dog was worth that much shouldn't it be insured?


Posted by: Buttercup | Link to this comment | 08-19-16 1:08 PM
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23

It being only worth 10x the studding amount seems like mis-pricing to me. Unless the market for champion chihuahuas is as tiny as the dogs themselves, or else their pathetic hearts give way after only a few rounds, it should be putting out every week. Alternatively: bullshit.


Posted by: dalriata | Link to this comment | 08-19-16 1:31 PM
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||
Apropos of the law: holy shit, I missed this news that the DOJ was phasing out private prisons. That's amazing, if true.
|>


Posted by: lurid keyaki | Link to this comment | 08-19-16 1:31 PM
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21: "Domestic Raptor" had better be somebody's lifestyle blog title by this time tomorrow.


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 08-19-16 1:35 PM
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26

Dog ownership is super popular and trendy with well-to-do urbanites in China, and its sort of making its way to rural areas. I was surprised when my dialect tutor, a 20 yo girl living in a village, bought a samoyed, because it seemed like a pretty bourgie thing to do. Then I found out it was because she was hoping to earn a lot of money off the puppies. She kept the dog outside like all the other village dogs (these sort of rangy mutts that live in packs in villages) and fed it rice gruel.


Posted by: Buttercup | Link to this comment | 08-19-16 1:40 PM
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The behavior of the woman is bizarre and hilarious, until she starts beating on her kid
While true, this is strongly mitigated by:

she knew she wasn't allowed to leave the dog unattended outside because of the coyotes and hawks and eagles
which implies at least one (and possibly three!) other prize chihuahua has been eaten by wildlife.


Posted by: Mossy Character | Link to this comment | 08-19-16 4:09 PM
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28

"Is this your owl?"

"Which one?"

"In the tree."

"Says who?"


Posted by: fake accent | Link to this comment | 08-19-16 9:18 PM
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29

"All of them."


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 08-19-16 9:20 PM
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30

Dammit, that should have been "Polls. All of them."


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 08-19-16 9:20 PM
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31

30 No, that worked just fine.


Posted by: Barry Freed | Link to this comment | 08-19-16 11:44 PM
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32

Fair enough. I think 30 would have been better, though.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 08-19-16 11:53 PM
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No, 29 is better because all the owls really do say "who".


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 08-20-16 12:49 AM
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34

Owl ownership is determined by polls.


Posted by: fake accent | Link to this comment | 08-20-16 1:02 AM
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35

"John Paul II was the best pope ever."


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 08-20-16 6:05 AM
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36

Too bad about the chihuahua, but at least it wasn't eaten by a dinosaur.


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 08-20-16 6:49 AM
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Honestly, I think it would have rather been eaten by a dinosaur.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 08-20-16 7:38 AM
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38

It was eaten by a dinosaur, just a rather specialised one.


Posted by: chris y | Link to this comment | 08-20-16 7:56 AM
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39

Rural white people are so fucking scary.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 08-20-16 9:50 AM
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40

I don't insult your ancestors.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 08-20-16 9:52 AM
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41

I thought the Persians invented falconry?


Posted by: R Tigre | Link to this comment | 08-20-16 9:54 AM
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42

And then Arabs stole it, like they did with religious extremism and having oil.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 08-20-16 10:10 AM
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43

Were the Persians much into religious extremism before 1979? Bloody ibn Abd al-Wahhab had the Saudis wrapped up in the 18th century.


Posted by: chris y | Link to this comment | 08-20-16 10:20 AM
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44

I think there was a large underground scene.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 08-20-16 10:21 AM
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They were into Shiism from way back when. Admittedly it is an Iraqi import, but it's all up with self-flagellation and messiah cults and whatnot.


Posted by: Mossy Character | Link to this comment | 08-20-16 10:29 AM
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Were the Persians much into religious extremism before 1979?

Big time. Omar Khayyam got into trouble repeatedly with various religious extremists.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 08-22-16 8:53 PM
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The Shiite thing doesn't actually go back that far, but they were big supporters of the Abbasids, which may count.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 08-22-16 9:06 PM
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48

I guess it goes back pretty far if you count the Buyids, but there's hardly a straight line from them to the modern Persians.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 08-22-16 9:11 PM
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49

I'm thinking it goes pretty far back compared to 1979.


Posted by: Mossy Character | Link to this comment | 08-22-16 9:40 PM
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Sure, fair enough. It's not like they discovered religious extremism once they decided they hated America, despite what the American right would have you believe.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 08-22-16 9:43 PM
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51

Khayyam was little known for his poetry until FitzGerald's translation in the mid-19th century. He was known for his important work in mathematics and astronomy and to a lesser extent as being one of the last philosophers in the Avicennan school.

Twelver Shi'ism despite having one hell of a foundational myth (mainly in the martyrdom of Hussayn) is not characterized by extremism, and especially not in Iran from its establishment as the state religion from the Safavids on till maybe the last 40 years or so.


Posted by: Barry Freed | Link to this comment | 08-22-16 10:57 PM
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51: would it be fair to say that there were extremists, but they tended not to be in charge?
("Samarkand" by Amin Maalouf is my main source here, so I'm not exactly on rigorously researched footing.)


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 08-22-16 11:53 PM
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Most importantly I forgot to add (IIRC and Ogged will correct me) that if you mispronounce Khayyam in a particular and rather common way it means "my testicles" so Omar Khayyam was the original Deez Nuts.


Posted by: Barry Freed | Link to this comment | 08-23-16 12:07 AM
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So the moral of 53 is not to go into business as a tentmaker if you want to be taken seriously?

I never heard that Shi'ism is extremist in itself, and most of the really nasty factions out there at the moment are Sunni of a sort. This is not to say that Khomeini didn't enable the extremists within Twelver Shi'ism. Barry? Is that right?


Posted by: chris y | Link to this comment | 08-23-16 1:35 AM
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54.2 I would say that's generally true for much of the history of Twelver Shi'ism. Said Arjomand's Turban for the Crown is pretty good on this IIRC in relation to the Iranian revolution and sees it as a very long continuation of a power struggle between the clerics and the state since the beginning of Shi'ism in Iran. But for a very long time the clerical establishment was fairly apolitical. Khomeini changed all that.

As for other Shi`ite movements the Isma'ilis certainly had their extremist moment in the sun, giving us the word assassin in the process. Now the Aga Khan is largely known for his patronage of the arts. He's done a great deal for preservation and dissemination of knowledge about traditional Islamic art and architecture.


Posted by: Barry Freed | Link to this comment | 08-23-16 5:26 AM
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55.last Oh, and the Kharijites are sometimes thought of as a Shi'ite movement that was too Shi'i for the Shi'ites (and certainly too Shi'i for Ali). They remind me of ISIL a bit both in their behavior and in their ideology.


Posted by: Barry Freed | Link to this comment | 08-23-16 5:31 AM
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56: I've thought about that too and wondered whether anyone in ISIL is making that explicit connection, but obviously not enough to actually google.


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 08-23-16 5:38 AM
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It's something that's occurred to me since a strong Takfiri strain took hold of some al-Qaeda offshoots in the late 90s early 00s (IIRC) but they've been around since the 1960s as a strain of the Muslim Brotherhood. ISIL kicks it up a notch tho no doubt.


Posted by: Barry Freed | Link to this comment | 08-23-16 5:46 AM
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I can't see modern Salafis suddenly making nice with the Kharijites. Far too much history.


Posted by: chris y | Link to this comment | 08-23-16 6:05 AM
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59 Not making nice, no, but the resemblances are striking.


Posted by: Barry Freed | Link to this comment | 08-23-16 9:03 AM
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As has been long recognised, apparently. The pedia thing says, "In the 18th century, Hanafi scholar Ibn Abidin declared the Wahhabi movement of Muhammad ibn Abd al-Wahhab as modern Khawarij."

Sorry to nag you for info, but you're more likely to know than anyone else I regularly interact with: do contemporary Ibadi vel sim. carry all the original Kharajite baggage or have they gone soft like the Ismailis?


Posted by: chris y | Link to this comment | 08-23-16 9:26 AM
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61.2 My pleasure, though I wish I still had my library.

Ibn Ibad made a clean break with the Khawarji and regarded them as far too extreme so the Ibadis were moderate from the very beginning despite sharing some similar positions with the Khawarij regarding the Caliphal succession.


Posted by: Barry Freed | Link to this comment | 08-23-16 10:20 AM
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To the OP. I don't read reddit unless it's linked here but seeing this may make me reconsider, at least for the legal advice subreddit.


Posted by: Barry Freed | Link to this comment | 08-26-16 2:16 AM
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63 is the best thing I've read since the last time somebody here linked to legal reddit.


Posted by: chris y | Link to this comment | 08-26-16 5:33 AM
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