did someone muck with the backend here

Re: Jobs

1

Build things, with a subcategory of fixing things. This is effective and unremarkable when the things are weapons -- that's why Orange County is wealthy. But it'd still work if they were bridges/schools/solar power plants/modernized electrical grid and so on.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 11-14-16 2:55 PM
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It's not so much an explicit jobs program, as a 'Federal government buys stuff that people have to be hired to make' program.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 11-14-16 2:56 PM
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Black helicopters dropping Tubmans in poor neighborhoods to increase demand. Plus, as usual and pf course, what Lizardbreath said


Posted by: Anonymous Troll | Link to this comment | 11-14-16 2:59 PM
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Building things effectively is distinguishable, in its effects on economies local, regional and national, from building (I suspect) expensive highways in Unincorporated Sun Belt Exurb, Whocaresarkana, in a way that hands cronies and cronies' cronies gobs of cash.


Posted by: OPINIONATED PSEUDONYM | Link to this comment | 11-14-16 3:10 PM
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I can think of all kinds of money I'd like to spend on the NYC subways. That'd be a jobs program. Let alone the LIRR.

And other cities could probably use some spiffy new public transportation too.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 11-14-16 3:17 PM
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expensive highways in Unincorporated Sun Belt Exurb, Whocaresarkana, in a way that hands cronies and cronies' cronies gobs of cash.

This is what worries me (among many other things). If the Rs are true to form, they'll go hog wild with spending now that they control the government. But even though there are tons of worthwhile projects to spend on, any infrastructure spending is likely to to be done in a way the prioritizes funneling $$ to GOP cronies above everything else. So I suspect a lot of $$ will be spent while a lot of needed infrastructure work goes undone.

Maybe we will finally get that bridge to nowhere, though.


Posted by: AcademicLurker | Link to this comment | 11-14-16 3:25 PM
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7

Since you asked, if we're going to save the climate we pretty much have to tear down all the car suburbs and rebuild them to look like Dutch towns.

This site will show you what it's like:

https://bicycledutch.wordpress.com/index-by-theme/


Posted by: cccccmmmmm | Link to this comment | 11-14-16 3:46 PM
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But what we'll really get is a bunch of unmaintainable new highways, tons of sprawl, and a fucked climate.


Posted by: cccccmmmmm | Link to this comment | 11-14-16 3:47 PM
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9

Yeah, this is a happy fantasy post, rather than anything that's going to happen in the near future.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 11-14-16 3:54 PM
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I think just the risk of more labor, antitrust, and other regulatory enforcement than average, combined with the actual upper-income tax increases and minimum wage increases that do tend to happen, may make corporate practices a bit more equitable under Democrats - whereas under Republicans the watchword is to grab everything that isn't nailed down.

Also when Republicans deficit-spend, it's more on the military, which I'd bet is easier to funnel into windfall profits than civilian infrastructure, healthcare and the other things Democrats shell out for.


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 11-14-16 4:07 PM
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I assume Republicans will make axing Davis-Bacon a condition of public works spending, then fill the jobs with low wage labor, including many under restrictive visas with no path to citizenship.

Wait, is this a positive escapist thread?


Posted by: fake accent | Link to this comment | 11-14-16 5:51 PM
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12

Dig up and replace every water main more than 50 years old.
The problem with new infrastructure like subways, roads is all the planning and veto points. Water mains are already there, are necessary, and when they break they are replaced immediately anyway but at multiple times the cost including damage caused. God forbid this country should do something forward looking instead of just responding to crises.


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 11-14-16 6:13 PM
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12: There are neighborhoods in Boston and New York where 50-year-old water mains would be new.


Posted by: Flippanter | Link to this comment | 11-14-16 6:29 PM
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14

Here also.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 11-14-16 6:31 PM
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12: Dig up and replace every water main more than 50 years old.

Trump industries LLC will be low bidder and get the contract. They'll get the materials from China and illegally import labor from eastern Europe. Then Trump Services LLC will get the contract to round up the illegal laborers and deport them.

Thus reducing the waste, fraud and abuse that is inherent in government projects. It is the traditional way, the 21st century version of building railroads.

If people in the rich white enclaves were willing to allow infrastructure spending in poor black areas we wouldn't have Flint.

Help, I think I've been possessed by the Demon McManus.


Posted by: Anonymous Troll | Link to this comment | 11-14-16 6:32 PM
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Re jobs but I got asked who I found inspiring during an (impact litigation) job interview and said King Alfred the Great before I even had a chance to think about it.

The thing is, I wasn't joking.


Posted by: Clytie | Link to this comment | 11-14-16 7:34 PM
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I actually think he did a bunch of infrastructure projects too, so.


Posted by: Clytie | Link to this comment | 11-14-16 7:35 PM
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I know Halford has left us to do The Real Work or whatever but the line is fine sometimes.


Posted by: Clytie | Link to this comment | 11-14-16 7:37 PM
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That's awesome, Clytie.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 11-14-16 8:25 PM
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20

Was this Halford?


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 11-14-16 9:58 PM
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21

You can admit it was you, Moby.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 11-14-16 10:08 PM
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20: That's awesome, Moby.


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 11-14-16 10:10 PM
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23

I went there to make one about white people being terrible.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 11-14-16 10:12 PM
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We are pretty terrible, it's true.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 11-14-16 10:14 PM
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24: I bet we can find a lot of people in this brave new world to deny that you and I are white.


Posted by: nosflow | Link to this comment | 11-14-16 10:24 PM
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Absolutely, we can. (Which, Jesus Christ, seriously? Uh, so to speak.) Nevertheless, I think in this sense we are.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 11-14-16 10:25 PM
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But I'm not actually sure. I certainly feel white right now, in a negative way.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 11-14-16 10:27 PM
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28

If it makes you feel better, no one south of the Alps or east of the Rhine is white, according to my grandparents.*

*I'm translating into American categories, since European prejudices are more granular than that.**

**It's actually more complicated than that. Basically the Venn diagram of people my grandparents all like includes no one.***

***Well, except for maybe Danish people.


Posted by: Buttercup | Link to this comment | 11-14-16 10:34 PM
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29

I was taught that white people extend to the Elbe.


Posted by: Mossy Character | Link to this comment | 11-14-16 10:42 PM
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30

From which direction, though?


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 11-14-16 10:44 PM
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28.1 They weren't including Irish people, were they?


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 11-14-16 10:45 PM
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32

Denmark is east of the Rhine.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 11-14-16 10:47 PM
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From Atlantis eastward. Obviously.


Posted by: Mossy Character | Link to this comment | 11-14-16 10:56 PM
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34

Catholics are prima facie nonwhite.

Also, at a certain latitude (Slesvig-Holstein northwards) the East-West divisions don't matter as much. Though, Finns are not really white.

Of course, the problem with Danes is that they are soft, like butter.


Posted by: Buttercup | Link to this comment | 11-14-16 11:00 PM
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What about those of us who have ancestry from both sides of any given north-flowing river in Europe (though admittedly not from south of the Alps AFAIK)?


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 11-14-16 11:44 PM
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36

One drop rule.


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 11-15-16 12:04 AM
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"Wogs begin at Calais" used to be the rule.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 11-15-16 12:15 AM
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38

The once and future rule.


Posted by: Opinionated Brexit | Link to this comment | 11-15-16 4:32 AM
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39

I assume Republicans will make axing Davis-Bacon a condition of public works spending, then fill the jobs with low wage labor, including many under restrictive visas with no path to citizenship.

This will go down well with the people the meedja assure us voted for them so they could get old fashioned jobs with family incomes.

Also 15 is probably right withou much exaggeration.


Posted by: chris y | Link to this comment | 11-15-16 4:33 AM
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40

Though, Finns are not really white.

WTF? The Finns invented blonde hair. No, really.


Posted by: chris y | Link to this comment | 11-15-16 4:35 AM
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41

There's a US court case from a century ago (maybe less) concluding that Finns were Asian, not European.


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 11-15-16 4:54 AM
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42

OK, so every natural blonde in the United States has one drop of Asian in them. Send them all back to Asia, say I!


Posted by: chris y | Link to this comment | 11-15-16 4:57 AM
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43

42 is crap of course. Just wondering if you could get a meme going.


Posted by: chris y | Link to this comment | 11-15-16 5:00 AM
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44

41 Wasn't this previously discussed on the blog?


Posted by: Barry Freed | Link to this comment | 11-15-16 5:19 AM
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45

Of course, everything has been discussed before on the blog.


Posted by: Barry Freed | Link to this comment | 11-15-16 5:20 AM
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46

http://alterdestiny.blogspot.com/2007/09/absurd-texts-in-american-history-viii.html

Apparently, the court case decided that Finns are white.


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 11-15-16 5:47 AM
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47

Hmm. Build infrastructure IN THE CITIES. Replace water mains IN THE CITIES. Rebuild CITY schools.
It's a wonder rural Americans aren't enthusiastic about democrats infrastructure spending. More government spending which raises taxes and costs on rural Amercans and improves city jobs and infrastructure. Who wouldn't get behind that?


Posted by: Andrew | Link to this comment | 11-15-16 6:26 AM
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48

Do rural American taxes even cover the cost of farm subsidies?


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 11-15-16 6:34 AM
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49

The pattern is mostly blue sates subsiding red. It's not that simple, but that's the trend.


Posted by: | Link to this comment | 11-15-16 6:40 AM
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50

That were me again.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 11-15-16 6:43 AM
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47: I love it. Rural Americans, the great parasites of the federal commonweal, actually thinking they subsidise the cities.


Posted by: real ffeJ annaH | Link to this comment | 11-15-16 6:44 AM
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Rural Americans don't need roads, bridges,
and schools. They levitate from place to place, don't use products not handcrafted on their pioneer homesteads, and certainly don't want their children's heads filled with pernicious nonsense.

Ever hear of rural electrification? Access to the national power grid is a big deal for rural people. That's an infrastructure project.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 11-15-16 6:44 AM
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When AT&T was broken up, people I knew found it hard to get phone service. I guess part of the requirement for being able to hold the monopoly was running lines to everybody's house for the same cost regardless of how many miles they were from the nearly pole.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 11-15-16 6:45 AM
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54

True story: I used to have to walk home from school. If it was hot, I'd stop in the REA office to get a drink of water.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 11-15-16 6:46 AM
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Just yesterday I was thinking about the irony that rural voters are so subsidized by the cities, and yet feel so put upon. Somebody could pitch a "Rural White Voters are the Real Welfare Queens" to Reason or somebody.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 11-15-16 6:59 AM
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56

I'm sure Reason has already run that about eight times. Probably something about ethanol also.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 11-15-16 7:02 AM
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There's joy in repetition.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 11-15-16 7:14 AM
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They levitate from place to place

This is why they call it flyover country?


Posted by: chris y | Link to this comment | 11-15-16 7:19 AM
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53: still is, if you're one of the operators (ILECs or RLECs) that hold a telco monopoly, and subsidised out of the universal service fund (or rate of return regulated in some corner cases wait don't leave everyone loves telecoms law don't they DON'T THEY)


Posted by: Alex | Link to this comment | 11-15-16 7:23 AM
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60

Why do you hate CLECs, Alex?


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 11-15-16 7:37 AM
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I was wondering the same thing (although it's been a decade since I had to know what that stands for, which means that I don't any more.).


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 11-15-16 7:41 AM
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It's because the C is for competitive and so they're not a monopoly, but I didn't think that being a little bitch required sticking to the facts.


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 11-15-16 7:45 AM
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63

I have no doubt Trump and the congressional republicans can thoroughly fuck up infrastructure spending. Maximal grift, minimal public benefit.


Posted by: urple | Link to this comment | 11-15-16 8:23 AM
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60: His parents were murdered by a CLEC.

The economy is near full employment, though I'm sure there's still some slack from underemployment and early retirement. In the short run if they really cut taxes and spent like crazy on infrastructure, they could generate a massive boom. It would inevitably end in disaster, but they could give the illusion of public benefit, for a little while.

Wait, Trump is Hans Gruber, isn't he? He fakes an interest in politics to make as much money as possible. Plus when he needed a miracle, he had the FBI.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 11-15-16 8:45 AM
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spent like crazy on infrastructure

Beware Trump's Infrastructure

I rescind my optimism on the economy.

It's all just looting, on both sides of the aisle. Selling the other's seedcorn. Primitive accumulation, ala David Harvey.


Posted by: bob mcmanus | Link to this comment | 11-15-16 8:50 AM
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64.last is genius. And he has a coterie of dodgy Eurotrash following him around! Well, Farage anyway.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 11-15-16 9:08 AM
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You know who else did massive infrastructure spending and hired Nazis in his administration and was named Hitler?


Posted by: fake accent | Link to this comment | 11-15-16 9:32 AM
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Wait, I did that wrong.


Posted by: fake accent | Link to this comment | 11-15-16 9:32 AM
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Damn 2016, another great American bites the dust. RIP, probably in a lead coffin stuck all over with NRC monitoring sensors, David Hahn: http://arstechnica.co.uk/science/2016/11/this-fall-the-radioactive-boy-scout-died-at-age-39/


Posted by: Alex | Link to this comment | 11-15-16 10:31 AM
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Late to the thread, but infrastructure projects are the most inefficient possible jobs program. When billions are being spent, the money can go to either labor or capital, and infrastructure requires lots of capital. Every dollar spent on concrete isn't being spent on jobs. Every dollar spent on construction trucks and heavy equipment is creating a very few jobs, mainly in Japan or Mexico.

If you want to create jobs on a finite budget, go to services, not stuff. Hire more teachers and teachers aides, more daycare providers, more aides for the disabled, subsidize medical and dental checkups for the entire population. You could even have the government pay for hairstyles, pedicures, and tattoos for everyone who wants one. Almost every dollar spent goes to labor, and all in the US.

Spending on services is also much more egalitarian: Much more of the total will go to women, and somewhat more to people of color.


Posted by: unimaginative | Link to this comment | 11-15-16 11:39 AM
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On the other hand, we actually need a whole lot of infrastructure. Jobs are nice, but so are water mains, and bridges that don't collapse, and modernized power grids, and and and.

Money is finite, but the US is in a good enough position for borrowing that if there were the political will to spend on jobs and infrastructure, I don't think efficiency is a terribly important constraint.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 11-15-16 11:56 AM
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I mean, yes, hire teachers and nurses and library staff and health aides too, but that's not a reason not to spend on infrastructure.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 11-15-16 11:56 AM
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Spending on services is also much more egalitarian: Much more of the total will go to women, and somewhat more to people of color.

Something about white men loving to be serviced.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 11-15-16 12:01 PM
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43

You can't, I've already tried.


Posted by: Buttercup | Link to this comment | 11-15-16 11:31 PM
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Has anyone linked to anything discussing what an empty scam Trump's supposed infrastructure "plan" is?

If you were expecting anything other than grift and looting, sorry.


Posted by: urple | Link to this comment | 11-16-16 3:31 PM
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