Re: No words.

1

Evil. Fuckers.


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 02-10-17 7:42 PM
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One of the good things that came out of the Obama years was a policy stating that ICE was not supposed to conduct enforcement actions in "sensitive places."

Even under Obama, this policy was sometimes violated by agents in the field who decided to take matters into their own hands. But by and large, it provided a measure of security and safety.

That is gone now. Countless policies like this one, even if they are not formally revoked by the new administration, are already being ignored in much more widespread fashion.


Posted by: Witt | Link to this comment | 02-10-17 7:56 PM
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If they haven't been formally revoked, it's just a matter of time. I don't think there's anything a court can do about it.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 02-10-17 8:03 PM
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And if your only goal is to make people go away, evil is a feature, not a bug.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 02-10-17 8:08 PM
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Correct, it's just policy guidance. Secretary Kelly (and/or whoever the ICE director is) can issue new guidance anytime they want. It's not even notice-and-comment rulemaking.


Posted by: | Link to this comment | 02-10-17 8:08 PM
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It's well into a "papers, please" phase. If you look Hispanic, you're near other similar looking people, speak with an accent, and don't have citizenship proof (not just a license- who the fuck routinely carries a birth certificate or passport?) there's a good chance you'll be detained and a chance you could be deported.


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 02-10-17 8:41 PM
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This isn't the first undertaking of this administration that has been totally chilling to me, but it's the one that hits closest to home.


Posted by: Presidente Frontera | Link to this comment | 02-11-17 12:00 AM
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Fuckers.

I'm far removed so I feel a bit out of place suggesting anything but what can white people in the area do? I feel like it's time for some kind of Underground Railroad. For picking up other people's kids from school.


Posted by: Barry Freed | Link to this comment | 02-11-17 2:00 AM
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8. If these bastards noticed an increase in white people collecting brownish kids from school they'd just follow them to where they dropped them off or, if the white people took the kids to their own home they'd park outside unntil the parents came for them. If they're going as far as described in the OP, why wouldn't they go the extra mile?


Posted by: chris y | Link to this comment | 02-11-17 5:30 AM
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People, this is not a mass deportation scheme. 44 people taken into custody in Austin, metro area population of 2 million? That's a totally routine felon roundup operation, and I guarantee it's an all hands on deck planned operation just to do a few dozen people like that. For all Trump's talk, ICE doesn't remotely have the staffing and facilities for large scale detentions.


Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 02-11-17 8:41 AM
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They've been conducting sweeps in LA too. Something like 150 people arrested this week.


Posted by: jms | Link to this comment | 02-11-17 9:17 AM
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10: Working without documentation can land you with a felony for identity theft. That's exactly the kind of charge that got a Phoenix mother rounded up and deported last night:

http://fusion.net/story/385723/lupita-rayos-deported/

Tell us again how these are routine raids, rounding up dangerous people. I wonder if we can imagine any adverse consequences to publicly rounding up parents as they pick up their children from school. Jesus wept, dude, it's not the legality of the action, it's the morality. It's the wisdom. It's the justice. It's the humanity.


Posted by: (gensym) | Link to this comment | 02-11-17 9:18 AM
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12: She didn't get rounded up, she went into their office and checked in and was detained. She almost certainly wouldn't make the list for a targeted op like this.

ICE doesn't have the manpower to be doing mass stakeouts of schools and workplaces. Think about the numbers here. If they were actually doing papers checks on people in Austin all over the place they'd find 44 in the first 6 seconds. 44 people in a city that size is a specific list of people who they know are in the area and have some kind of intel on where to find them.


Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 02-11-17 9:34 AM
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Obviously our whole immigration enforcement system is grotesque. If our country needs millions of more workers they should be legal residents instead of the current system where we make it trivially easy to hire undocumented people who stay here for years and years, and the turn around and destroy their lives as soon as the political winds shift, or they get sick or inconvenient. The very lives we want them to come and start, because entire sectors of the economy are dependent on them.


Posted by: Asteele | Link to this comment | 02-11-17 10:45 AM
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If our country needs millions of more workers they should be legal residents

This. I get really weird about talking about the injustice of enforcing the immigration laws without going straight to talking about the injustice of the immigration laws themselves.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 02-11-17 10:50 AM
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Case Studies in Acquired Sociopathy, Vol. 3: gswift's Defenses of the Actions of Anyone in Uniform.


Posted by: Bave | Link to this comment | 02-11-17 11:16 AM
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The problem that once you concede the need for immigration laws in principle, it's very hard to see how you get from the present situation to just laws without perpetrating further injustices en route. This applies to everybody and everywhere, not just America.


Posted by: chris y | Link to this comment | 02-11-17 11:32 AM
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Yeah -- I've mostly moved to refusing to concede the need for restrictive immigration laws even in principle.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 02-11-17 11:36 AM
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That's a totally routine felon roundup operation,

In the context where Donald Trump is president, Jeff Sessions just became Attorney General and I see people in my Facebook feed approvingly cite articles about "illegals scattering like roaches," do you really think anything "routine" about going after the easy pickins? First they came for the felons.


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 02-11-17 11:43 AM
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16: Hey idiot, the reason to push back on this narrative is that ginning up this kind of hysteria has real consequences and the people doing it should shut the fuck up. Take the LA area op, which detained what, 150 people in an area of 15 million? That is not a mass roundup but calling it one is making people afraid to do basic things like call the police, an ambulance, go to school, etc.


Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 02-11-17 11:46 AM
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20 would be a hell of a lot more convincing if it betrayed any awareness of any of the stuff in 19.


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 02-11-17 11:48 AM
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There are small, but potentially with big impacts, practical steps you can take, particularly if you know anyone who works in a school.

In CA, make sure the school has materials from ILRC, including those found here: https://www.ilrc.org/know-your-rights-and-what-immigrant-families-should-do-now

ILRC is a tremendously helpful resource for those in CA and beyond, but it focuses on CA.

NILC has similar resources here, for outside CA: https://www.nilc.org/issues/immigration-enforcement/everyone-has-certain-basic-rights/ Also an excellent organization and you should donate to both.

You can also support by helping to arrange basic trainings for students and their families, including by help with identifying non-immigration attorney translators so that the kids are not having to translate for their families. And if you have any acquaintances in the ethical immigration attorney community (*extreme* caution warranted here with respect to the quality of the lawyers) you can help put together contact information for distribution to schools, students and parents.

If you do reach out to schools in your community make sure to think through how you communicate and what information regarding student and family status the administrators, teachers and staff have, or may acquire, and how they might store it. It can make sense for non-school employees to provide group trainings to all students with no school employees present.


Posted by: dairy queen | Link to this comment | 02-11-17 11:51 AM
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For undocumented adults, stay in sanctuary cities, do not drive, and if you do drive make sure your car has zero visible maintenance issues (turn signal not working, etc.).


Posted by: dairy queen | Link to this comment | 02-11-17 11:53 AM
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This is all just practical advice, not counsel, of course.


Posted by: dairy queen | Link to this comment | 02-11-17 11:54 AM
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19, 20: These ops are routine and predate the Trump era by quite a number of years. I happen to be the SRO now in a west side school with a bunch of kids from undocumented families and I don't appreciate a bunch of ignorant fucks on social media making them think myself and ICE agents are going to be staking out the school parking lot to snatch up their parents.


Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 02-11-17 11:55 AM
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So, 150 people isn't a mass roundup, eh? How many people does it take to make it "mass"?

And - and, not trolling here, I really want to know - what are the limits on their capacity for picking up people? If they picked up 150 in LA last week, can they do it again next week, and the week after that? How long are they taking to process and deport people, and what are the bandwidth limitations and bottlenecks on that?


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 02-11-17 11:56 AM
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I don't appreciate a bunch of ignorant fucks on social media making them think myself and ICE agents are going to be staking out the school parking lot to snatch up their parents.

If you don't appreciated being associated with that kind of behavior by law enforcement, maybe you should speak out against it when it happens.


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 02-11-17 11:57 AM
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I don't appreciate a bunch of ignorant fucks on social media making them think myself and ICE agents are going to be staking out the school parking lot to snatch up their parents

That's not a very nice way to talk about our president.


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 02-11-17 11:59 AM
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heebie - maybe you could add the pointers towards ILRC and NILC to your front page post? So they don't get lost in the flow of the thread. Also the cautions re: thinking through how you communicate with schools and how the schools themselves organize their knowledge re: students' status. Thanks!


Posted by: dairy queen | Link to this comment | 02-11-17 12:09 PM
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So, 150 people isn't a mass roundup, eh?

No. Southern CA has a seven figure undocumented population.

I don't know what the actual capacity is for picking up people but to do the kind of mass deportations Trump rambles about would take a huge ramp up in manpower and facilities. A hell of a lot of undocumented people are living in urban areas where the jails are already running at capacity. I've had a couple guys in the last three months get ICE holds put on them and both pretty quickly had to be moved to other counties just because of space issues. The unwritten rule when you call ICE to have them check a guy you've arrested is that it better be for something good because they don't have the manpower or facilities to just come out on every guy you pull over.


Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 02-11-17 12:17 PM
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Huh, I was going to respond to 13 with the points in 20 but 25 makes it clear gswift doesn't get it. It's clearly a change in policy, it's not routine because they're picking up people who a month ago would have been ignored, so yes people are now afraid to do things they should do like call the cops. Maybe law enforcement shouldn't refer to immigrant neighborhoods as "target rich environments."


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 02-11-17 12:18 PM
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Further to respond to 31- the wapo story says they're now picking up people with minor or no infractions so it appears the SOP you describe is no longer S.


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 02-11-17 12:20 PM
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The AP provides a fact check. I honestly don't know.

Under President Barack Obama, the government focused on immigrants in the country illegally who posed a threat to national security or public safety and recent border crossers. But despite the narrower focus, more than 2 million people were deported during Obama's time in office, including a record of more than 409,000 people in 2012. At one point, he was dubbed the "Deporter in Chief" by his critics.
The record was reached with the help of the Secure Communities program that helped the government identify immigrants in the country illegally who had been arrested.

I include the second paragraph there because what's been most striking to me about Trump's recent directive is that it includes those who have (merely) been arrested, not necessarily convicted. From this AP report, Obama's policy did that as well.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 02-11-17 12:20 PM
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do not drive, and if you do drive make sure your car has zero visible maintenance issues (turn signal not working, etc.).

That's probably a bit much. Us, LAPD, etc are not checking people's immigration status on traffic stops. We don't have the time or the space in jail even if we were inclined to. Getting hooked up on a traffic stop in a big jurisdiction is pretty unlikely unless you've got an active warrant or an NCIC hit for being an aggravated re-entry.


Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 02-11-17 12:21 PM
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It's clearly a change in policy

I don't doubt there's been some change in policy. But that doesn't translate into if you're undocumented you're at significant risk of getting deported for having a broken tail light. But if you're a felon then yeah, I'd probably stop doing those voluntary check ins like the one in 12.


Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 02-11-17 12:25 PM
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Oh, and the AP piece says that according to the head ICE guy in LA, the recent sweep was in the planning stages before Trump's directive.

It's impossible to know definitively whether that's true, but it's certainly quite plausible. As gswift says, you can't do this stuff without quite a bit of advance planning.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 02-11-17 12:26 PM
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None of that speaks to the question whether people are being detained and potentially deported simply for opening the door and being unable to produce papers.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 02-11-17 12:27 PM
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But the felony in 12 is solely related to being undocumented (using a fake SSN to get a job, which Arapio got charged as felony identity theft). So if you don't check in they're more likely to target you in a sweep because Felon! but you better not check in because Felon!


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 02-11-17 12:31 PM
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the wapo story says they're now picking up people with minor or no infractions

The wapo story I read said 75 out of 100 had felony convictions. And not having a conviction yet doesn't necessarily tell you the whole story. The cartels bring up a lot of Hondurans for the street level dealing. Often young, no priors. If we bring ICE along when doing a warrant on a dope house with 15 Hondurans in it, on paper a bunch of them are non criminals. But it's not really the same thing as just hitting a bunch of random construction sites and checking green cards.


Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 02-11-17 12:33 PM
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38: From the sweeps I've seen the offense in 12 wouldn't rank real high. Priorities are typically gang members, drug dealers, weapons violators, etc. A forger is much more likely to make the list if they're actively making documents and selling them.


Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 02-11-17 12:38 PM
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But despite the narrower focus, more than 2 million people were deported during Obama's time in office, including a record of more than 409,000 people in 2012. At one point, he was dubbed the "Deporter in Chief" by his critics.

My understanding is that Obama started including (at least some) people stopped at the border and turned back as, "deported" which inflated the numbers. Beyond that I just have the impression that enforcement policy shifted, at least a few times under Obama, because he was pushing enforcement harder during the period when he was trying to strike a compromise deal, and then after that failed he de-emphasized enforcement.


Posted by: NickS | Link to this comment | 02-11-17 12:57 PM
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41: Interesting. I hadn't heard that, about inflating the numbers. Link?


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 02-11-17 1:24 PM
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I'm on my phone, but this is the first story I found: http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-obama-deportations-20140402-story.html


Posted by: NickS | Link to this comment | 02-11-17 2:14 PM
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whether people are being detained and potentially deported simply for opening the door and being unable to produce papers

Might not be online again today, but again, before people start freaking out they need to remember that ICE right now is basically operating at capacity. There isn't the necessary slack in the system to pull off an immediate large uptick in detentions.


Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 02-11-17 2:42 PM
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44: True fact. Also federal law enforcement hiring is pretty slow. Hence the need to empower or mandate local LE. A lot of "red" states are curiously happy to kick in their dimes to fund what are essentially federal activities. For this.


Posted by: Turgid Jacobian | Link to this comment | 02-11-17 3:30 PM
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Thank god Republicans have been slashing budgets for the past thirty years, or else Trump would really have some manpower behind him.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 02-11-17 3:33 PM
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Number up to 360 people arrested. But it's still not "mass" yet.


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 02-11-17 5:01 PM
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I'm with gswift on this. There's no percentage in freaking out. The actions of ICE will become clear in due time. In the interim, vaguely sourced reports spread fear and interfere with the ability of the targeted populations to live their lives, which is surely part of the point.

That said, the (plausible) claim that ICE is rounding up immigrants absolutely as fast as they can does not exactly inspire confidence in the measured nature of their actions.


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 02-11-17 9:01 PM
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42:It's not precisely "inflated", just mostly. You're still deported, for purposes of subsequent visas and such.


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 02-11-17 9:05 PM
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Video - Sean Spicer Press Conference Cold Open - SNL vs. Actual 2/9/17 Sean Spicer Press Conference


http://commoncts.blogspot.com/2017/02/video-sean-spicer-press-conference-cold.html


Posted by: ST | Link to this comment | 02-12-17 7:52 AM
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A friend posted this at the other place:

"Many friends are posting a copy-pasted warning about ICE raids targeting immigrants in Minneapolis. Please read this post for my thoughts and advice on that.

It's amazing and wonderful how many people are outraged by the attacks on immigrants and refugees and want to express that outrage and warn people when something bad is happening.

That said, I think it's very, very important to be cautious before reposting things like that. Here's why:

(1) The posts that are making the rounds have no specific information -- Where exactly is this supposed ICE raid? What time did it start? Is it still in progress?

(2) The posts provide no advice or action people can take. Should people mobilize to the spot of the raid to protest? Avoid the spot of the raid? Call ICE? Call a legislator?

(3) The posts give no source for the information about the supposed ICE raid. There are many long-standing, kick-ass immigrant rights organizations and lawyers in the Twin Cities. If there is a real ICE raid in progress, at least one of them will almost surely know about it. If you witness something happening in the moment, contact one of those organizations to get them there on the scene as soon as possible so there can be an organized response.

(4) Also, the term "ICE raid" has a specific meaning. Not everything ICE does is a "raid". Generally a raid refers to a broad generalized ICE operation where they go to a workplace or set up a roadblock and check *everyone's* ID's and detain anyone who can't demonstrate legal status. It's broad and random terror. What happened in Apple Valley and Burnsville two days ago was not that. It was a more 'standard' ICE operation where they had the names of specific people they were looking for who likely already know they have outstanding deportation orders, they went to look for them and detained them. They may have also detained others they found with them who could not immediately prove legal status. Such 'standard' ICE operations are also outrageous and should be opposed. But we need to be very clear about what is going on and not spread the wrong information. The targeted, 'standard' ICE operations happened literally every day under Obama too (with much less attention or fanfare). That operation was not an escalation to a higher level of terror. We will continue to oppose these 'standard' ICE operations too. But activists and lawyers in the affected communities have said this distinction is important to be clear about -- an "ICE raid" has a specific meaning, which is generalized random terror. If that is not what is happening, we should not spread fear and panic among a whole city of people who could be snared in such a raid.

So, to sum up:
If you see a 'warning' about an "ICE raid" that (1) does not say where it is happening, (2) does not provide an action you can take in response to it, and (3) does not list any organization or reputable activist immigration lawyer as the source of this information, I think it should not be shared.
The effect of sharing these vague non-specific warnings about an "ICE raid in Minneapolis!!!!" is to spread very real fear and panic among thousands of our neighbors and their families unnecessarily. Of course there is a very real threat of ICE raids and deportations. Many local organizations are working on 'know your rights' trainings and working on rapid responses to raids. These groups include MIRAC and our No More Deportations campaign, NAVIGATE, CTUL, Interfaith Coalition on Immigration, Asamblea de Derechos Civiles, Immigrant Law Center of MN, ISAIAH, Mesa Latina, National Lawyers Guild, Communities United Against Police Brutality, and more. These organizations need your support. Please consider channeling your concern into support for one of the many organizations that already exists and is working on these issues as we speak! We don't need to reinvent wheels -- we need to reinforce the capacity of the existing groups to respond in a strong, coherent, organized way to these raids with clear information and a clear call to action for what you can do to support the people under attack.

Now, a plug for one specific organization: The organization I work with, MIRAC, is developing a raid response network through our No More Deportations Campaign - Minnesota. There are other groups doing similar things too, and all deserve support. Our efforts really, really want and need your support and participation. Please like our page, and if you want to get involved, come to our anti-deportation fundraiser this Saturday or our meeting next Wednesday. We hope to have a grassroots, *sustainable* raid response network up and running as soon as we can. But it takes planning, and takes people and resources. Your help can help us get it going sooner! Please help! We can stop raids and deportations, but only if we work together in an organized, disciplined way."


Posted by: J, Robot | Link to this comment | 02-12-17 10:29 AM
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Hence the need to empower or mandate local LE.

Even if they do they're still way short on facilities. Our county jail is already full. Really full, as in they're not even accepting any misdemeanor arrests with the exception of DV and DUI. Utah County to the south is a bit less busy but still are usually operating at around 90 percent. They have maybe 100 free beds. Davis and Weber jails to the north are even smaller. Across the four counties you've probably got around a couple hundred free beds and an undocumented population of 80-100K. Most of the country is in similar shape.


Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 02-12-17 11:21 AM
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I don't think "lack of available beds" is really going to be a limiting factor hear. If open bed space fills up, there's always FEMA camps and military bases.


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 02-12-17 1:02 PM
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AND FOOTBALL STADIUMS.


Posted by: OPINIONATED AUGOSTO PINOCHET | Link to this comment | 02-12-17 4:24 PM
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51 is good. Remember why you were outraged about YELLOW TERRORISM ALERT!!


Posted by: Alex | Link to this comment | 02-12-17 4:30 PM
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Related to 51, Minneapolis-area Somalis are heading for Canada. I get the point about hysteria, but if its true that 90 have been deported in the past couple weeks, there may be some call for it. Especially for those that happen to be "felons."

Still, one would prefer they wait until spring.


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 02-12-17 4:44 PM
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Texas has 10 detention facilities dedicated solely to immigrants in the deportation process. A judge ordered about 500 women and children released recently because the facilities did not meet standards for childcare (despite Texas ramming through daycare certification for these places). So there are beds that are not contingent on jails being crowded or not.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 02-12-17 5:01 PM
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What about stay-in-deportation-facility dads?


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 02-12-17 5:15 PM
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I know, these detention facilities are so not progressive.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 02-12-17 5:16 PM
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57: TX alone has an estimated undocumented population of 1.5 million or so. A few hundred beds isn't getting you anywhere near a large scale roundup. Everyone needs to calm their titties.


Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 02-12-17 5:50 PM
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And keep in mind the demographics of the large PDs in the west where there's large concentrations of undocumented people. Dallas PD is barely majority white with around 18 percent Hispanic. Similar numbers with Houston. LAPD is 43 percent Hispanic. You really think these departments are going to participating in a mass detention? They're barely handling their existing call volume. They're not going to suspend police operations to try and haul 100K immigrants into the local football stadium.


Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 02-12-17 6:02 PM
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I'm bothered by arguments how logistic problems, lack of efficiency, or other incompetence will limit the scale immoral behavior. I think they miss the point and are naive (since logistics and efficiency can be improved).


Posted by: BA | Link to this comment | 02-12-17 7:17 PM
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Catching up on the thread:

1) True that the Obama administration changed how they counted "deportations" so it makes it seem like he deported many more. It is of course painful for someone who just arrived to get deported, but deporting someone who has been in the US for 48 hours is not the same thing, emotionally or otherwise, as deporting someone here for 10 years.

2) Obama had deportation priorities (several different iterations of policy over the years) that were supposed to focus on people with various types of more serious convictions and/or those recently arrived. This worked moderately well, but there were still plenty of ICE agents (and local law enforcement) who used their own interpretations.

3) A weird and possibly ongoing issue from the Obama era is whether the US government's contracts with immigrant detention centers require them to have X number of beds FILLED WITH PEOPLE or just have X number of beds available. Obviously if the former, there is a strong incentive to make sure people get picked up. Cases like the 7-Eleven in Maryland (people buying coffee swept up because they looked Hispanic), restaurants in suburban PA, and school arrests in Detroit area show how local ICE took matters into their own hands even in Obama era.


Posted by: Not this time | Link to this comment | 02-12-17 8:06 PM
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But here's the fundamental issue that gswift and other "voices of reason" are not grasping. Two things can be true at the same time:

1) the US hasn't (yet) allocated the financial resources to deport a much higher volume of people than Congress typically allocates money for (400,000 people a year, basically)

2) changes in policy and how agents on the street are operating can make (are making) the average undocumented immigrant's risk of being deported increase dramatically (say, 20x higher) and more importantly, be (accurately) perceived by immigrants as random and capricious.

20x a small risk is still small. But deportation priorities that specifically confirm that anyone who is not a naturalized US citizen is subject to deportation for committing anything that could constitute a chargeable offense is a dramatic change.

Just over 50 percent of the 43 million immigrants in this country are non-citizens. That includes 11 million who are outright undocumented, and about 10 million who are in various different types of legal-yet-tenuous status that leaves them subject to deportation if "in the judgment of an immigration officer, [they] otherwise pose a risk to public safety or national security." (same citation as link above).

So yeah, J Robot's post is right that people shouldn't sown panic without solid reason. But people are not wrong and not crazy to be very frightened. ICE as an institution, in my experience, selects for more aggressive officers than any other federal agency (I don't have a lot of direct experience with BP so can't speak to it). Those aggressive folks are now being given carte blanche to go after any one of 22 million immigrants. That's terrifying.


Posted by: Not this time | Link to this comment | 02-12-17 8:28 PM
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One last note. You can have a severe chilling effect even without substantial increases in deportations. I have firsthand knowledge of two developments in the past month:

1) Agency that helped 3,000 youth complete FAFSA applications last year has helped fewer than 1,500 so far this year. Reason: American-born kids are scared of endangering their undocumented parents if they submit a FAFSA with zeros for parent's Social Security Number.

2) Dean of community college has stopped referring immigrant students for public benefits for which they are legally eligible, out of fear that it is unethical to endanger her students and make them subject to deportation if accused of "Hav[ing] abused any program related to receipt of public benefits" [same citation as above].


Posted by: Not this time | Link to this comment | 02-12-17 8:33 PM
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Gswift: surely you don't think that local LE will stand proud and tall against threats of DHS and DOJ grants being shut dow?. Jefferson Beauregard Sessions will certainly be happy to recommend such threats against any departments less than ideally peppy in following out the necessary.


Posted by: Turgid Jacobian | Link to this comment | 02-12-17 8:56 PM
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the fundamental issue that gswift and other "voices of reason" are not grasping

I'm grasping it just fine. I've worked with these guys, I've seen the ops, I've had them put detainers on people I've arrested.

The Fugitive Operations program is around fifteen years old. Yeah, priorities change depending on the admin but your "dramatic" change probably just means something closer to the policies of the mid 2000's. The Obama years cut down on the quota of arrests aspect and put an increased focus on the fugitive aspect and the ratio of fugitive vs non fugitive came down. That shift wasn't entirely about the ethics or whatnot, it was also an acknowledgement that ICE is operating at full capacity and making the most of a limited resource.

The Maryland incident you talk about actually predates the Obama years and is worth reading about. A lot of the investigation into it came out after I was on the job and it was a topic of discussion. Worth noting is that it was a result of a push for quotas that are not longer policy and the field guys didn't want to do it.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/02/17/AR2009021703451.html


Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 02-12-17 9:06 PM
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66: They might as well order us to do traffic control on the moon. Even if all local LE caves, see 52. Order me to round up a bunch of illegals all you want, I'm supposed to put them where? And who's going to guard them? I don't think much of our current Republicans in Congress but I'm also pretty sure they're not going to be ok with Trump just suspending local law enforcement and emptying the jails so that those officers can spend all their time rounding up a bunch of roofers and landscapers.


Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 02-12-17 9:19 PM
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Not this time, are there east coast organizations that help immigrants that you'd recommend as recipients of time or money? I speak rudimentary Spanish.


Posted by: lw | Link to this comment | 02-12-17 9:23 PM
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I don't think the Trump administration will be beyond creating temporary camps for detainees awaiting deportation. Some older Republicans will be against it, on the basis of optics; they prefer the suffering they cause to be quiet and distributed, like people dying for lack of adequate health care.

The main deterrent is they'll have to pay for it and do a lot of hiring to make it happen.


Posted by: fake accent | Link to this comment | 02-12-17 9:27 PM
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Order me to round up a bunch of illegals all you want, I'm supposed to put them where? And who's going to guard them?

I bet there's militia's out there who would be happy to volunteer for guard duty.


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 02-12-17 9:28 PM
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I don't blame anyone for being scared, and the capriciousness is certainly.a feature rather than a big


Posted by: J, Robot | Link to this comment | 02-12-17 10:06 PM
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The first guards at Dachau were the regular Bavarian police. Duly constituted authorities limited detainees' access to lawyers and courts, creating spaces in which the only law was what local law enforcement at the scene said it was.

As late as five years after its opening in 1933, only 151 Austrians were interred there in the first group of prisoners from that former state. It was certainly not a mass action. It's true that later in 1938 some 3700 Jews from Vienna who had been taken into custody, in accordance with the laws of the country, were brought to Dachau. Perhaps that is a mass action? One in 50.

If there are 2 million undocumented people in southern California, that would be about 40,000 people. It's the population of, say Agoura Hills and Duarte. Who would notice? Who would call it a mass action?


Posted by: Doug | Link to this comment | 02-13-17 2:28 AM
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I'm sure the police apologist(s) have a great explanation for why it's good and normal policy for victims of domestic violence to be arrested by ICE: http://www.elpasotimes.com/story/news/2017/02/15/ice-detains-domestic-violence-victim-court/97965624/


Posted by: (gensym) | Link to this comment | 02-15-17 6:49 PM
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74 is terrible. When the reckoning comes, it should be cause for someone to lose their job.


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 02-16-17 7:01 AM
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I'd be interested to hear gswift's opinion of this situation. He wrote it then erased it himself to set up ICE to be accused of falsifying a confession? It's his fault for using a pencil instead of a pen?


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 02-17-17 4:57 AM
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Good news everyone! Now ICE doesn't have to worry about not having the staffing and facilities for large scale detentions.

$11 million for the Office of the Secretary and Executive Management Operations and Support to establish a real-time data integration system that would support immigration enforcement operations, benefits adjudication, policy analysis, accurate data reporting, and for other border and immigration modeling analyses.

$286 million for CBP Operations and Support, including $95 million to support border surge operations, $65 million to build hiring capacity to recruit and onboard 5,000 Border Patrol agents, $18 million for project management, oversight, and support for the border wall, $43 million to enhance situational awareness at the border, and $64 million for other technology, equipment, and infrastructure investments that directly contribute to the effectiveness of border security operations.

$1.4 billion for CBP Procurement, Construction, and Improvements, including $999 million for planning, design, and construction of the first installment of the border wall, $179 million for access roads, gates, and other tactical infrastructure projects, and $200 million for border security technology deployments.

$1.2 billion for ICE Operations and Support, including $1.15 billion to pay for detention, transportation, and removal of illegal aliens, and for alternatives to detention; $76 million to build hiring capacity to recruit and onboard 10,000 ICE agents and officers; $5 million for homeland security investigations intelligence activities; and $5 million to support the expansion of the Section 287(g) Program.

$25 million for Federal Law Enforcement Training Center Operations and Support for the hiring and training of instructors to support law enforcement officer hiring and training within CBP and ICE.

$63 million for Federal Law Enforcement Training Center Procurement, Construction, and Improvements for infrastructure investments, including modular dormitory and
classroom buildings, which would support law enforcement officer hiring and training at CBP and ICE.


Posted by: Ginger Yellow | Link to this comment | 03-16-17 6:48 AM
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