did someone muck with the backend here

Re: Living Quarters

1

The OP sounds rather like a government-supported co-housing scheme, which would be an excellent idea - co-housing is already a widespread thing in the more free-range bits of the American West. (The failure mode, I suppose, is "Magdalen Laundry".)


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 06-27-17 7:32 AM
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A family of six with one bathroom sounds like a bigger problem.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 06-27-17 7:39 AM
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What makes the house tolerable is that it's not cluttered with all our stuff

We're feeling very stressed out about clutter (with 2 adults and one kid in 1200sf). It's not small by any reasonable measure, but it's full of stuff, and we have had a lot of difficulty making time to declutter (particularly since Mr. almost-5 generally objects to getting rid of things).


Posted by: Nathan Williams | Link to this comment | 06-27-17 7:42 AM
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I still don't get how tiny houses are supposed to make sense except has a fetish object. The raw space of a house is not that expensive. The money is in the bathroom, kitchen, and utility connections. A tiny house might save money over a McMansion, but I don't think it saves much over must a small house. If you cluster a bunch of them together closely enough that you can save on the utility hook-ups, that would save lots of money. It would also recreate the trailer park under a different name.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 06-27-17 7:44 AM
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I think Sears should go back to selling house kits. It seemed to work last time and it's not like anybody running Sears has a better idea.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 06-27-17 7:48 AM
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I like the single mom's housing proposal but I'd expand it to include poor families where the father sticks around. There's no need to further incentivize deadbeat dadhood. Actually I'd like to see some sort of incentive for the father to stick around. I'm not sure how you do that but it seems like it would help.

I live just fine for six weeks or so in a van during grad school. I sometimes miss those days. I had very little stuff and I could just pick up and go anywhere on a whim. I think my ideal living situation is a nice RV parked in a warehouse where I can store my dumpster diving finds.


Posted by: togolosh | Link to this comment | 06-27-17 7:49 AM
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The poor can't afford a proper van, because airbrushed paintings of eagles aren't cheap.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 06-27-17 7:55 AM
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Dads would be fine. Any family should be fine, just have a sliding scale to cover rents, assuming we've got plenty of supply, since the whole think is a made up fantasy. In the real world fantasy, single parents should get higher priority since this is such a popular project that supply can't keep up with demand.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 06-27-17 7:56 AM
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I think my ideal living situation is a nice RV parked in a warehouse where I can store my dumpster diving finds.

I thought you'd found a potential plot of land and were seriously considering this?


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 06-27-17 7:57 AM
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On average, single-parent families should have one less person than double-parent families. So, you're helping more people.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 06-27-17 7:58 AM
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If you give priority to two-parent families.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 06-27-17 8:00 AM
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Though, I guess if there were two adults, there would be twice the chance that someone in the family knew how to make a yurt.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 06-27-17 8:05 AM
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The raw space of a house is not that expensive
OH REALLY


Posted by: OPINIONATED MANHATTAN REALTOR | Link to this comment | 06-27-17 8:06 AM
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Then why don't more people in Manhattan just built yurts?


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 06-27-17 8:08 AM
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As I've airily declaimed before, when Obama bailed out the banks he should have just nationalized all those subprime houses. Public housing for all! In McMansions! In Nevada and places!


Posted by: Mossy Character | Link to this comment | 06-27-17 8:09 AM
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Presumably yurts are sewn.


Posted by: Mossy Character | Link to this comment | 06-27-17 8:10 AM
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Or glued together with horse urine or whatever.


Posted by: Mossy Character | Link to this comment | 06-27-17 8:11 AM
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They have a frame too.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 06-27-17 8:11 AM
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Anyway I bet LB is within 100 meters of a rooftop yurt.


Posted by: Mossy Character | Link to this comment | 06-27-17 8:12 AM
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I think my ideal living situation is a nice RV parked in a warehouse where I can store my dumpster diving finds.

IIRC, this would also allow you plenty of space for your hobby of building and test-firing liquid-fuelled rocket motors.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 06-27-17 8:12 AM
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Solid-fuelled motors you can just test in the RV, because you don't need all the tanks and cryogenics and crap.


Posted by: Mossy Character | Link to this comment | 06-27-17 8:14 AM
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Of course, any apartment with a good-sized deck would allow that.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 06-27-17 8:15 AM
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22 to 20.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 06-27-17 8:16 AM
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He doesn't specify which warehouse his ideal home would be in but I think I can guess.

"We have top people working on this."
"Who?"
"Top. People."


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 06-27-17 8:17 AM
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(particularly since Mr. almost-5 generally objects to getting rid of things).

Kids are extreme hoarders. You've got to do it when they're not around.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 06-27-17 8:18 AM
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I don't see why you can't test rockets inside a nice RV parked on the good-sized deck of your apartment.


Posted by: Mossy Character | Link to this comment | 06-27-17 8:18 AM
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You could build the apartment inside a warehouse, even.


Posted by: Mossy Character | Link to this comment | 06-27-17 8:20 AM
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It could be mobile to different parts of the warehouse.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 06-27-17 8:21 AM
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We've done a pretty decent job of decluttering. Always a tension though in a house that has literally one built-in wardrobe and no cupboards: two cupboards, one has boiler and washing machine, the other has the air circulation/heat exchanger.

I think Mrs ttaM would like us to live in Japanese style ultra-minimalist world. We have two bookshelves, and she still talks a lot about getting rid of book (we used to have 6 or 7, in our previous place).


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 06-27-17 8:23 AM
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One could build multiple well-bedecked warehoused apartments, and drive one's RV from deck to deck as they became befouled with rocket exhaust.


Posted by: Mossy Character | Link to this comment | 06-27-17 8:24 AM
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31

Honestly, I'm surprised such developments aren't common already.


Posted by: Mossy Character | Link to this comment | 06-27-17 8:25 AM
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It's really too bad that there's any notion of owning land. If all land was public, and you were always renting from the government, it'd be better. And you have to demonstrate use to rent it: you can rent the space under your house, and you can rent this exact plot for your garden, but you don't get a backyard. Anyone can wander through the space around your house.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 06-27-17 8:25 AM
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Property rights are weird, man. Have you ever really stared at your property rights?


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 06-27-17 8:28 AM
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Just wander the steppe, and pitch your yurt wherever the wi-fi's good.


Posted by: Mossy Character | Link to this comment | 06-27-17 8:28 AM
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Live in the WalMart parking lot, like Clarence Thomas.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 06-27-17 8:32 AM
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you don't get a backyard. Anyone can wander through the space around your house.

Already the case in Scotland, as long as they don't do any damage, and they don't infringe your privacy by eg peeking in through your windows.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 06-27-17 8:32 AM
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37

But that doesn't apply to gardens.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 06-27-17 8:33 AM
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If they're in your garden, they can do damage and peek into windows?


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 06-27-17 8:36 AM
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Only briefly. Then the gnomes get them.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 06-27-17 8:39 AM
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9: It got sold. I need a bit bigger down payment than I have anyway, so I'm deferring the plan until my family's situation is more stable.


Posted by: togolosh | Link to this comment | 06-27-17 8:50 AM
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There's no need to further incentivize deadbeat dadhood. Actually I'd like to see some sort of incentive for the father to stick around. I'm not sure how you do that but it seems like it would help.

I had really compassionate, sensitive thoughts about this that were not anything like "wall off a section of the complex under a big sign that says TRIUMPHAL WARRIOR MAN-CAVES, NO CUCKS ALLOWED with a bunch of swords glued to the door and a big red pill painted on it; inside, wall-to-wall video screens. Then an ironclad myth promulgated that the mothers are paying for the whole thing, which actually costs the men a nontrivial amount of money, but at least it's better than writing the bitch a blank check." I manage anger super well, AMA.


Posted by: lurid keyaki | Link to this comment | 06-27-17 8:58 AM
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It's really hard to glue a sword to a door. Unless the sword is a metaphor.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 06-27-17 8:59 AM
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43

Proprietary mixture of superglue and jizz. Man, I'm raising the tone today. I think the housing complex without my emendation is a genuinely good idea and I'm not sure I even believe it would be impossible to pilot. I should no joke talk to my mom about this. They'll be overturning Roe v. Wade later this year, I trust? And the country is descending into anarchy? Time for moon shots.


Posted by: lurid keyaki | Link to this comment | 06-27-17 9:06 AM
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At the other end of the age spectrum, I believe we need boarding houses for men, middle aged and older, who don't one single thing to make or maintain friendships but then die of loneliness. Boarding houses would solve that handily.


Posted by: Megan | Link to this comment | 06-27-17 9:07 AM
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45

"Moon Shots" would be a good name for a place that gives espresso enemas. If anybody wants to become an entrepreneur.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 06-27-17 9:08 AM
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44: Boarding houses would save them enough money to hire prostitutes.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 06-27-17 9:10 AM
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32: That was one thing in Player of Games that bugged me, but it's clearly intentional and part of the message. Gurgeh has a lovely house he designed himself, and in a throwaway moment early on some hikers pass through and take a room for the night. They don't ask his permission, it's just shown as culturally assumed if you need space and it's available, you get it. They don't use locks either, per another book.


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 06-27-17 9:12 AM
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47: I think you're misremembering? The bit in question has a woman and her daughter arriving at his house. "Neither of them showed any sign of having heard of him; they just happened to be passing. He invited them to stay for a drink, and made them a late lunch... he advised the woman on the most scenic route to take when she and her daughter resumed their journey [which they then do; they don't stay the night]".


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 06-27-17 9:23 AM
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49

Why didn't he shoot them, like a normal person?


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 06-27-17 9:24 AM
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50

Oh, I am misremembering. But when he comes across them, are they inside the house?


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 06-27-17 9:24 AM
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And I kind of feel that just rocking up uninvited at someone's house and expecting a room for the night would be a bit impolite by Culture standards. Gatecrashing a party is certainly frowned on in the Culture.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 06-27-17 9:25 AM
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50: no, he's at home alone, and they come riding up to his house through the woods.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 06-27-17 9:25 AM
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53

And when Zakalwe is being introduced to the Culture he just asks the local Mind to direct him to a room if he needs one. There's no need to infringe on anyone's space because the Culture always has a surplus of everything.


Posted by: Mossy Character | Link to this comment | 06-27-17 9:28 AM
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I love our guest Murphy bed so much.


Posted by: Unfoggetarian: "Pause endlessly, then go in" (9) | Link to this comment | 06-27-17 9:33 AM
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53: good point. Sma doesn't tell him "just go into any house you like and get your head down", she says "ask the Mind, it'll tell you where the nearest free room is".


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 06-27-17 9:34 AM
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Everyone that can sleep over, will?


Posted by: Mossy Character | Link to this comment | 06-27-17 9:35 AM
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56 to 54, though it presumably describes some faction of the Ulterior as well.


Posted by: Mossy Character | Link to this comment | 06-27-17 9:39 AM
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58

The raw space of a house is not that expensive. The money is in the bathroom, kitchen, and utility connections.

Also the land. Whenever I see a story about a tiny house, it features a youngish, childless couple living mindfully in a tiny house that seems to sit upon a large lot of land.

I like heebie's housing proposal.


Posted by: Just Plain Jane | Link to this comment | 06-27-17 9:40 AM
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Land is cheap if you don't need to be close to anything or look at anything nice.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 06-27-17 9:41 AM
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58 describes pretty much the exact situation that my recent ancestors went to considerable trouble to escape from (youngish couple - obviously not childless - living a natural, uncluttered life in a tiny house surrounded by a large area of open ground).


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 06-27-17 9:42 AM
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You need open ground for a good clear field of fire; and if you make the house too big you and your strapping sons won't be able to man all the loopholes simultaneously.


Posted by: Mossy Character | Link to this comment | 06-27-17 9:47 AM
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Just mansplaining for Heebie there, in case the moonshots don't work out.


Posted by: Mossy Character | Link to this comment | 06-27-17 9:49 AM
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Moon Shots®!


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 06-27-17 9:50 AM
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Or Moon Shots!®


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 06-27-17 9:54 AM
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"Moon Shots®! The future of pooping."


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 06-27-17 9:59 AM
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Moon Shots!®
Hillbilly.


Posted by: Mossy Character | Link to this comment | 06-27-17 9:59 AM
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And Ogged, your website should make the ® smaller, but doesn't. Iranian.


Posted by: Mossy Character | Link to this comment | 06-27-17 10:01 AM
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If you're racist to white people and brown people at the same time it all cancels out.


Posted by: Mossy Character | Link to this comment | 06-27-17 10:02 AM
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Still sexist.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 06-27-17 10:16 AM
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He likes big ®s and he cannot lie.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 06-27-17 11:39 AM
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||
Oh fun, a huge cyberattack concentrated in a country where I routinely collaborate online with colleagues. The lucky Ukrainians get tomorrow off from work, so I imagine a lot of people are enjoying an unusually long holiday at the moment. I wonder if the timing was coincidental.
|>


Posted by: Nancy Reagan | Link to this comment | 06-27-17 11:44 AM
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The best colleagues are those too far away to see in person.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 06-27-17 11:51 AM
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71 Wonder if it was coincidental with that Ukrainian intel official that got hit the other day.


Posted by: Barry Freed | Link to this comment | 06-27-17 11:54 AM
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Near Kyiv is the town of Brovary. How is life in Brovary, tell me?


Posted by: lurid keyaki | Link to this comment | 06-27-17 1:49 PM
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44 without the boarding house is looking like my retirement plan. Don't loot my loneliness fund, leeches!


Posted by: fake accent | Link to this comment | 06-27-17 2:55 PM
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74: "Madame Brovary" should be the punchline to some joke or other.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 06-27-17 3:23 PM
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Brovs icing brovs.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 06-27-17 3:27 PM
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Heebie, Scholar House! It's gender-neutral but only for single parents, doesn't cover all situations but is good at what it does. I've also read about housing for young adults who aged out of foster care and/or became parents in their teens alongside senior citizens in independent living who act as grandparent guides. There are lots of options. I see the benefits but I'm so glad my loud children don't share a wall or gawdforbid a ceiling/floor with anyone.


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 06-27-17 3:57 PM
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As part of a wall-sharing family, let me assure you that love makes a tolerably quiet apartment.


Posted by: lurid keyaki | Link to this comment | 06-27-17 5:14 PM
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I say, it does seem to be time for my periodic hiatus. Thank you all for tolerating my chattiness, as always. I'll be back at some point.


Posted by: lurid keyaki | Link to this comment | 06-27-17 5:22 PM
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80 I've enjoyed the chattiness. Take good care.


Posted by: Barry Freed | Link to this comment | 06-27-17 5:29 PM
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Love makes a tolerably quiet apartment but a bad tennis score.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 06-27-17 5:38 PM
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Oh, Lurid, please don't go! We'll be tolerably quiet, we love you so!


Posted by: Mossy Character | Link to this comment | 06-27-17 6:15 PM
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Oh, I am the one with the problem, lurid. I'm sure with more experience I would get over it. There's no moral righteousness in living the way I do, and I assure you no particular quiet either. I will maybe be around more and it would be nice to chat if you are soon.


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 06-27-17 7:06 PM
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58 describes pretty much the exact situation that my recent ancestors went to considerable trouble to escape from

Mine too! And almost everyone's ancestors, surely...

When my [My Surname] ancestors first arrived in Upper Canada, they built a small log shanty, which they lived in for the next twenty to thirty years (two parents, and ten children, in their 1.5-room "tiny house," which rough, crude structure sat on 200 acres of Crown land). When their eldest surviving son eventually built a solid, stone farmhouse (which was hardly a McMansion by today's standards, but which was a lot larger than that shanty), that was really coming up in the world! and why would anyone want to go back to living in a shanty!? (and anyway, they needed the extra space, what with their twelve children and all).

So: what is a "reasonable" amount of square footage per person, when thinking about ideal house sizes? There's no question average American house sizes tend toward the larger end of the spectrum; and I'm sympathetic to the idea that many people could, and often do, live quite happily in spaces quite smaller than the American norm. However, the "tiny house" movement clearly takes things to an opposite extreme (and honestly? if I had to let down a Murphy bed every night before sleeping, and then fold up that bed every morning in order to have a space to sit and drink a cup of coffee, I would probably go all "cabin fever," and lose my damn mind). Is 300 square feet per person too restrictive? Is 600 square feet per person taking it too far?


Posted by: Just Plain Jane | Link to this comment | 06-27-17 7:15 PM
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I'm reading Crabgrass Frontier, a history of why American suburbs and home preferences evolved as they did and it's pretty great. Though I realize as I write this that
I'm going to actually read Return to Gone-Away, about aa family rehabilitating a Victorian mansion. I blame the strep.


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 06-27-17 7:49 PM
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The tiny house movement appears to be predominantly for people who love living simply as an abstract concept but would never dream of a trailer or prefab.


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 06-27-17 10:33 PM
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Mossy, I always come back! Thorn, it was a joke (the kernel of truth is that I'm fond of our neighbors and their little girl, who reminds me a lot of mine at that age), no worries whatsoever. I may drop you a line anyway, though.


Posted by: lurid keyaki | Link to this comment | 06-27-17 10:33 PM
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87: ah but as one last thing: I would totally embark on a Dwelled-up midcentury modern gut renovation of a cut-rate doublewide trailer. God, so enticing. So not cheap, but so enticing.


Posted by: lurid keyaki | Link to this comment | 06-27-17 10:36 PM
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Oh hey, Zakalwe also lived on that planet of trailer-dwellers for a while, freaking them out with his weirdly static hovel.


Posted by: Mossy Character | Link to this comment | 06-28-17 2:26 AM
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74: "Madame Brovary" should be the punchline to some joke or other.

Don't tease me, Bro.

It's really too bad that there's any notion of owning land. If all land was public, and you were always renting from the government, it'd be better.

This is the situation in Hong Kong.


Posted by: | Link to this comment | 06-28-17 2:31 AM
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So: what is a "reasonable" amount of square footage per person, when thinking about ideal house sizes? There's no question average American house sizes tend toward the larger end of the spectrum; and I'm sympathetic to the idea that many people could, and often do, live quite happily in spaces quite smaller than the American norm. However, the "tiny house" movement clearly takes things to an opposite extreme (and honestly? if I had to let down a Murphy bed every night before sleeping, and then fold up that bed every morning in order to have a space to sit and drink a cup of coffee, I would probably go all "cabin fever," and lose my damn mind). Is 300 square feet per person too restrictive? Is 600 square feet per person taking it too far?

The extreme is presumably the Age of Sail, when you would find sailors living happily for years on end with maybe an average of 15-20 square feet of space per person. (14 inches width in which to swing your hammock.)


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 06-28-17 2:55 AM
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Weren't they often beaten if they didn't act at least reasonably content? Plus, kidnapped and such.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 06-28-17 4:34 AM
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As I've said before, we have an 800-900 sq ft flat, for two adults and a child, and it's fine. I don't even think it's small by UK standards. Smallish bedrooms, but compensated for by a larger open plan living room/kitchen that takes up about 40-50% of the size of the whole place.

So, most of the time it feels pretty expansive. Lots of light, and the open plan space opens onto a balcony, which makes it feel bigger. if the building had a storage unit where I could chuck a few boxes of books/tools/paperwork, it'd be great.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 06-28-17 4:35 AM
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The problem with outdoor space being limited to a balcony is that if you are sitting outside drinking beer, you can't, without being extremely antisocial, piss without going all the way back inside.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 06-28-17 4:42 AM
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I guess that's what ASBO is for?


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 06-28-17 4:47 AM
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95 seems to betray a failure to grasp the potential of the empty soft drink bottle.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 06-28-17 5:10 AM
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We mostly have cans. Risks of cuts are too high.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 06-28-17 5:12 AM
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Anyway, having a little patio is very nice even if the three-footed deer isn't eating enough of the shrubbery that I don't have to go trim it this weekend.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 06-28-17 5:17 AM
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100

It's also nice to have a door going directly from the car hole into the house.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 06-28-17 5:21 AM
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I just discovered that you can now purchase adapters for your reciprocating saw to turn it into a fuck saw instead of having to McGuyver it yourself. God Bless America!


Posted by: | Link to this comment | 06-28-17 5:48 AM
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Now?


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 06-28-17 5:50 AM
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103

Broke out Player of Games. I derived my impression from where it says the pair "stopped off at Ikroh". I think I read it as "stopped in," i.e. inside the house, and interpreted the rest of the paragraph quoted above in that light. (I guess it makes fuller sense if the name Ikroh is taken to apply to the environs of the house as well as the house itself, in the style of a country estate.)


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 06-28-17 5:51 AM
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104

We should have more conversations about the Culture here. Perhaps a mandated 1:1 ratio with Trump conversations.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 06-28-17 5:58 AM
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105

Thorn: we have something similar, I think? Ours, though, definitely feels like apartments - each family has a private kitchen, living room, and front door, as opposed to communal living. No cafeteria, no communal living room intended to largely replace a family living room. That said, it is one of the best programs I've heard of that actually successfully lifts families out of poverty.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 06-28-17 6:03 AM
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I really like having my own front door and living room. Communities are nice, but only if you can get away.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 06-28-17 6:05 AM
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104: I support this. Every now and then I remember there won't be any new Culture and it bums me out. The little that I haven't read yet--I think just his short story collection, now--needs to be carefully doled out.


Posted by: dalriata | Link to this comment | 06-28-17 6:35 AM
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One of the benefits of senility (a topic much on my mind since turning 40 earlier this month) will be that I'll be able to read all my favourite books for the first time again.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 06-28-17 6:37 AM
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That's probably not true. It's more likely that your long-term memory will work better than your short-term memory. You'll remember what was in books you read 60 years ago but be unable to remember what was in the start of the paragraph you are reading until you get to the end of it. You'll not be able to read any books for the first time.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 06-28-17 6:39 AM
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I remember being surprised to learn that not everyone had their own room. That is my first memory of privilege. The person to bedroom ratio doesn't seem as important to me as the person to bathroom ratio.


Posted by: will | Link to this comment | 06-28-17 6:40 AM
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109: damn. Oh well.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 06-28-17 6:42 AM
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Second 107. Republican strutting and bullshitting keeps reminding me of Zakalwe dropping the mic:

That's the way they prefer to work; offering life, you see, rather than dealing death. You might call them soft, because they're very reluctant to kill, and they might agree with you, but they're soft the way the ocean is soft, and, well; ask any sea captain how harmless and puny the ocean can be.


Posted by: Mossy Character | Link to this comment | 06-28-17 7:34 AM
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108: My great aunt, in Alzheimered retirement, said she never got bored with her one little shelf of books, because she could read them over and over. I don't know if she'd read them when she was young though.


Posted by: Mossy Character | Link to this comment | 06-28-17 7:37 AM
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112: also it would lure alameida back. She's been a bit quiet.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 06-28-17 8:39 AM
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On the subject of housing, I think what this town needs most is boarding houses for very poor single mothers,

On a sort-of related note, I just saw this (emphasis and link mine).

Sarah Berkes' dream, after graduating from the University of Washington in 2015, was to move to New York City and pursue a career in fashion. Berkes, over the phone, is bubbly and energetic -- she's the kind of person who appears to be chattering through a smile 90 percent of the time. Her college graduation gift from her parents was a one-way ticket to New York. In short order, she landed a job -- and then an apartment at a boarding house for professional women.

Posted by: NickS | Link to this comment | 06-28-17 1:15 PM
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On topic in general and to 89: https://www.curbed.com/2017/6/27/15879034/prefab-home-designs-passive-house-go-logic These things look great, but who can see spending $340,000 plus the price of a lot for just a 1,400 square foot house.

Via 11d's Twitter.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 06-28-17 5:56 PM
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Stupid links.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 06-28-17 5:57 PM
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I guess maybe you could save money on utilities because it's a passive house. Still very expensive for the square footage.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 06-28-17 5:58 PM
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The 1,400 square foot option would be about perfect for us. We'd even had a pantry and a room for our powder.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 06-28-17 6:08 PM
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Had s/b have


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 06-28-17 6:10 PM
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I think ours is 1900 square feet, several rooms of which don't get used much but will eventually. It turns out it's going to be quite economical to get the outside painted, which is what matters the most to me right now.


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 06-28-17 6:23 PM
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122

Sounds superficial.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 06-28-17 7:27 PM
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123

Just the kind of gal I am, Mobes.


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 06-28-17 7:32 PM
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I was going to put this in the other thread because Teh Stupid, but it fits better here. They don't tell you about all the dangers of single parenting.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 06-28-17 7:44 PM
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125

For those who don't keep track of guns very carefully, a Desert Eagle is what Dirty Harry would have carried if it were made 15 years later.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 06-28-17 7:46 PM
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126

I think later on, when Gurgeh is on Azad, he gets a 'postcard' from home in which there's evidence of people staying in his nice house (where the roof slopes at the same angle as the mountains and the rain is refreshing and the air clear). And it annoys him, perhaps because he has internalised Azadian concepts such as ownership.


Posted by: Charlie W | Link to this comment | 06-28-17 9:11 PM
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125: Yeah, they're not doing a lot of shooting if they thought a book was going to stop a .50 AE. A standard bullet weight for that .50 is 300 grains. The 9mm loads we carry for duty are 124 grains.


Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 06-28-17 9:33 PM
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125: If I were planning to video a stunt in which I shot a loved one and the bullet was stopped by a book, I might do a test run or two first with just the book, and a sandbag or something behind it, to be absolutely sure it would work. But that's just me.

This sort of idiocy isn't limited to one country of course:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/defence/11401172/RAF-man-jailed-for-shooting-comrade-in-party-trick-gone-wrong.html

Best bit of that article:

The hearing heard that at first he [the victim] was reluctant to report the shooting.
He said: "I did not want the RAF Regiment to look like twats, which is what it would do, because the Army would love to hear we shot one of our own lads."

Unfortunately, aircraftman, the ship "HMS The Army Thinks The RAF Regiment Are Twats" first set sail shortly after the foundation of the RAF Regiment. Though you have to admire the esprit de corps of someone who tried to cover up the fact that he had been shot in the stomach for fear that it would make his regiment look bad.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 06-29-17 2:09 AM
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"And he stopped off in Tushka at that "Pop's Knife and Gun" place
Bought a SKS rifle and a couple a full cases of that steel core ammo
With the berdan primers from some East Bloc nation that no longer needs 'em
And a Desert Eagle that's one great big ol' pistol
I mean .50 caliber made by badass Hebrews
And some surplus tracers for that old BAR of Slayton's
Soon as it gets dark we're gonna have us a time "

-- James McMurtry, "Choctaw Bingo"


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 06-29-17 2:37 AM
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SAC Johnson said Gadsby had initially pointed the pistol at his head, despite his complaints. Gadsby had said: "I have done it loads of times mate, stop being a p***y"

Also, may I second 125 and 127? That's a comically huge calibre for a handgun.


Posted by: Alex | Link to this comment | 06-29-17 3:19 AM
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Really the only reason that they built the Desert Eagle .50 is "because we can". There's no reason to have a handgun in that calibre at all. What, are you shooting buffalo in the head with it or something? If so (and you might be), take a revolver so you can carry a .44 Mag load, which is just as good and more accurate, and still have a comfortable grip rather than that ludicrous thing the Desert Eagle has. It's daft for combat (virtually no military uses it), dangerous overkill for self-defence (and only 7 rounds in the mag), ungainly for hunting, unnecessarily limiting for target shooting and too bloody loud.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 06-29-17 4:43 AM
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I have a relative who owns one. It's a collectable.

Anyway, they did do a test run with another book, apparently. My guess is that they forgot the sandbag part and didn't think the reason the bullet didn't go through the first book was because the book could move.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 06-29-17 4:55 AM
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There is also the Dessert Eagle, which is a hand-gun shaped torch for melting sugar on your crème brûlée.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 06-29-17 5:00 AM
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132.2: I am sincerely surprised that there are books out there that can stop a .50AE round, whether they can move or not.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 06-29-17 5:01 AM
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The Dessert Fox knows many things, but the Cheese and Pineapple Hedgehog knows one big thing.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 06-29-17 5:03 AM
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134: Chuck Tingle uses a lot of words.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 06-29-17 5:04 AM
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134 The OED?

You shouldn't need anything bigger than a .454 Casull.


Posted by: Barry Freed | Link to this comment | 06-29-17 5:09 AM
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I have a 1910 edition of a comprehensive English dictionary that's about 10 inches wide. I'm pretty sure it could stop a bullet of significant energy. Not going to try it because chickenshit.


Posted by: togolosh | Link to this comment | 06-29-17 5:11 AM
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Chickenshit is the better part of valor, at least when it comes to things done for YouTube hits.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 06-29-17 5:44 AM
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In Marsh's library in Dublin they have, or had, an exhibition of books that were hit by bullets in the 1916 rising. Some hit side on, and some directly, so you can see how far the rifle bullets made it through.



Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 06-29-17 5:44 AM
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If there was YouTube in 1916, the Easter Rising would have worked.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 06-29-17 5:48 AM
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Also, if YouTube existed in 1916, the Franco-Prussian War would not have happened. Once you start messing with the temporal order, you get unexpected results.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 06-29-17 5:54 AM
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Best Vines of the Crimean War


Posted by: Barry Freed | Link to this comment | 06-29-17 6:05 AM
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"This one brigade charged. You'll never believe where."


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 06-29-17 6:06 AM
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Depends to a very large degree on the round that is going into the book. Mythbusters tested phone books against .22 long rifle rounds and found you needed 400 pages to stop one. And a .50 AE round has about ten times the energy of a .22LR. They tested a .357 Mag round too - went straight through.

The Marsh's library thing is interesting, but you have to wonder how many of those books that stopped bullets were several volumes in from the direction the bullet was coming from... I mean, if you fire a bullet at a shelf of books end on, one of them is going to stop it. But lots of others are going to fail to stop it first.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 06-29-17 6:09 AM
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Supposedly, Teddy Roosevelt's speech was thick enough to slow down a bullet. He got shot, but not shot dead.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 06-29-17 6:11 AM
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Maybe paper was thicker back before photocopiers and laser printers?


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 06-29-17 6:14 AM
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Anyway, I agree with our main point about it being good to assume that a book isn't going to stop a bullet.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 06-29-17 6:15 AM
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School books should have a sticker warning "This odds that this volume will stop a bullet are almost nil." They could put it right below the sticker about how evolution is just a theory.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 06-29-17 6:17 AM
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"Evolution is just a theory but if you have somebody shoot you while you are holding this book to stop the bullet, you'll qualify for a Darwin Award (unless you got the woman who fired the gun pregnant before she shot you)."


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 06-29-17 6:20 AM
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145, 147 Paper definitely used to be denser (measured in GSM: grams per square meter). Also paper made from rag (cotton) has longer fibers and is stronger than paper from wood pulp and wood pulp paper breaks down and weakens over time due to hydrolysis. So it matters a great deal what kind of paper you're shooting at.


Posted by: Barry Freed | Link to this comment | 06-29-17 6:30 AM
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145, 147 Paper definitely used to be denser (measured in GSM: grams per square meter). Also paper made from rag (cotton) has longer fibers and is stronger than paper from wood pulp and wood pulp paper breaks down and weakens over time due to hydrolysis. So it matters a great deal what kind of paper you're shooting at.


Posted by: Barry Freed | Link to this comment | 06-29-17 6:30 AM
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A hardcover copy of On the Origin of Species is apparently 6cm. thick. Wouldn't stop much at short range.


Posted by: chris y | Link to this comment | 06-29-17 6:31 AM
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||

NMM2 Michael Bond.

|>


Posted by: chris y | Link to this comment | 06-29-17 6:37 AM
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Roosevelt's spectacle case also got in the way of the bullet. It ended up hitting him on the right side of his chest, fairly far to the right, and embedded in the muscle rather than going through the chest wall (someone jostled the shooter's arm). So it was a combination of short-sightedness, verbosity and sheer good luck.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 06-29-17 6:41 AM
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"At the other end of the age spectrum, I believe we need boarding houses for men, middle aged and older, who don't one single thing to make or maintain friendships but then die of loneliness. Boarding houses would solve that handily."

I feel like draft- style mandatory socializing would be great. 10 hours per week of being in a band or playing team sports. Half the time can be done by playing with kids.


Posted by: Yoyo | Link to this comment | 06-29-17 6:41 AM
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I believe we need boarding houses for men, middle aged and older, who don't one single thing to make or maintain friendships but then die of loneliness. Boarding houses would solve that handily.

OH, YES. MY SISTER AND I HAVE BEEN WORKING ON VERY SIMILAR LINES FOR SOME TIME NOW. IT'S ONE OF OUR LITTLE CHARITIES, YOU KNOW.


Posted by: Abby Brewster | Link to this comment | 06-29-17 6:49 AM
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Half the time can be done by playing with kids.

Possibly it is for unfair reasons, but very often parents aren't eager to have their kids around middle-aged and older men who are of the sort that they have not been able or willing to maintain friendships.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 06-29-17 6:59 AM
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|| Re-posting from a less active thread: ttaM, please email me. |>


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 06-29-17 7:05 AM
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The other thing I miss is having two separate ends of the house for hanging out.

During the thousands of years when I lived in a studio, I used to always whine that I wanted to live in more than one room again because if you're in a bad mood in one room, you can go into the other one.

We are lucky to have as much space as we do in a horrible, horrible housing market. On the other hand, I hate everything outside the apartment so it's what you'd call a mixed bag.


Posted by: Mister Smearcase | Link to this comment | 06-29-17 7:42 AM
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I'm outside of your apartment.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 06-29-17 7:55 AM
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You probably thought that was just a ficus tree.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 06-29-17 8:12 AM
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re: 159

Done.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 06-30-17 4:48 AM
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161 Probably for the best. It's light enough to read out there.


Posted by: Mister Smearcase | Link to this comment | 06-30-17 1:35 PM
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Semi-related to Iain Banks, which series of Octavia Butler's should I read? I have (gulp) agreed to spend almost 2 weeks with my father and 12-year-old niece and nephew in Alaska this summer and need a big pile of books.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 06-30-17 2:05 PM
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Parable of the Sower/Parable of the Talents.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 06-30-17 3:57 PM
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165: Where in Alaska?


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 06-30-17 5:20 PM
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The part with all the bear attacks.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 06-30-17 5:30 PM
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You'll need to be a lot more specific than that, especially this year.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 06-30-17 5:37 PM
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165: also the Wild Seed / Seed to Harvest books. And Xenogenesis/ Liliths Brood.


Posted by: X. Trapnel | Link to this comment | 06-30-17 6:19 PM
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Fairbanks to Denali to Anchorage, then a ship to Vancouver.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 07- 4-17 1:25 PM
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It's the ship where you need to watch for the bears. Very few can save enough for passage, but those that can are killers.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 07- 4-17 1:33 PM
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http://mensshed.org/


Posted by: clew | Link to this comment | 07- 4-17 2:53 PM
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171: Yeah, you'll definitely need a big pile of books then.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 07- 4-17 3:08 PM
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173: Just when you think you understand a continent/large island.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 07- 4-17 3:11 PM
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174: My father initially decreed that the kids couldn't bring a phone or tablet because he didn't want them staring a screen the whole time. Good luck with that, Pops. You can entertain the kids on the 5-hour train rides and 10-hour flights. I'll be over here reading all the library books I downloaded.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 07- 5-17 10:03 AM
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(I shouldn't sound so obnoxious about it. My father's being incredibly generous and the trip will be a lot of fun.)


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 07- 5-17 10:18 AM
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