did someone muck with the backend here

Re: "But his emails"*

1

I don't want to know what a Trump wants an orphan for.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 07-11-17 8:20 AM
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When books/memoirs come out the predominant reaction will be "I assumed they couldn't possibly be that stupid."

Of course the problem is where we end up when this too fails to matter. We're gearing up to rule by a well-defined and public transnational coalition.


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 07-11-17 8:22 AM
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* be ruled by


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 07-11-17 8:23 AM
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Kremlinology alert, but the breaking stories about Jr. over the weekend were apparently coming from multiple sources inside the White House. Shortsighted attempt to get him out of the way? Trying to push against or distract from something especially horrible that's emerging from the Putin meeting?


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 07-11-17 8:25 AM
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And Jr. apparently just posted the missing 18 minutesthe text of the relevant emails on his Twitter? What even is happening.


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 07-11-17 8:29 AM
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The Republican Party is killing America in an attempt to save the richest people a few dollars in taxes.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 07-11-17 8:35 AM
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And Jr. apparently just posted the missing 18 minutesthe text of the relevant emails on his Twitter? What even is happening.

That almost makes sense -- it's clear that the leaker has a copy of the e-mail, so it looks better for him to release it than to deal with leaks timed to hurt him.

On the other hand it looks bad.


Posted by: NickS | Link to this comment | 07-11-17 8:36 AM
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Now I understand. Junior doesn't care what happens to him anymore -- he just needs to know if his daddy loves him.


Posted by: peep | Link to this comment | 07-11-17 8:48 AM
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I think he only loves the one daughter.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 07-11-17 8:54 AM
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This guy has been working on this story for a year and it's amusing to see his disbelief that those emails were just tweeted, and also to read his explanation of what he thinks is going on: there's a lot more collusion, and they're trying to limit the perception to one failed meeting.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 07-11-17 8:56 AM
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This guy has been working on this story for a year and it's amusing to see his disbelief that those emails were just tweeted

That is quite the twitter thread. Thanks.


Posted by: NickS | Link to this comment | 07-11-17 9:00 AM
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I literally can't understand what's happening right now.


Posted by: jms | Link to this comment | 07-11-17 9:05 AM
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Recall the milieu. Kushner's father hired prostitutes to entrap his brother with whom he had been feuding. The Javanka pillow talk must be rather interesting of late.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 07-11-17 9:08 AM
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12 is me too.


Posted by: Heebie | Link to this comment | 07-11-17 9:11 AM
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6 is really all that matters unless you're actually Robert Mueller or working for him.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 07-11-17 9:14 AM
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Junior: "He does love me! You'll see! He's going to pardon me, I know it!"

No pardon.

Junior: "He doesn't love me. But I'll show him. Even if I wind up going to prison, I won't tell on him. Then he'll know I'm a good boy, and he'll have to love me."

This is the saddest story ever.


Posted by: peep | Link to this comment | 07-11-17 9:17 AM
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Releasing documentation of a criminal conspiracy shows an admirable commitment to transparency that, sadly, the previous administration failed to achieve. I, for one, am encouraged by this latest achievement of what has been the most successful first six months of a presidency in American history.


Posted by: fake accent | Link to this comment | 07-11-17 9:18 AM
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16 does seem plausible, and possibly corroborative of that unconfirmed story about the father/son interaction in college.


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 07-11-17 9:22 AM
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My working theory on how "tweet out" differs from "tweet": the preposition makes it not just a random tweet but a speech-action with some consequence: disclosing new information, insulting someone, etc.


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 07-11-17 9:24 AM
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If they each don't love the other, I think that makes them both right. Or at least, except in the strictest Christian sense, it's hard to fault them for those judgements.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 07-11-17 9:25 AM
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As far as I'm able to make out Kushner and Jr tried to conspire with a foreign government to interfere in US elections and their defence is that they were instead duped into a conversation about adopting Russian orphans. Not traitors, suckers. It's all OK.


Posted by: togolosh | Link to this comment | 07-11-17 9:26 AM
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Maybe this really is the Pence faction making their move.

Tillerson comes back from the Putin meeting, says to Pence 'JFC, Mike, it's time to pull the trigger.'


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 07-11-17 9:26 AM
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I think I saw where he forwarded the email chain to Kushner and Manafort. The proximate part was the timing of the meeting, but I think the whole thread was attached?


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 07-11-17 9:30 AM
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22: (And after he made Mnuchin look like an idiot defending the joint cyber effort on Sunday, Mnuchin's on board.)


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 07-11-17 9:32 AM
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Anybody who would defend the joint cyber effort has no one but themselves to blame for looking like an idiot.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 07-11-17 9:38 AM
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25: Well right. But there's being a regular idiot defending the indefensible; and then there's the insult on injury of having your deranged boss publicly undercut you 10 hours later.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 07-11-17 9:42 AM
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If you think it's a bad thing to look like an idiot, you shouldn't have joined this Administration.


Posted by: peep | Link to this comment | 07-11-17 9:42 AM
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The Trump administration has done more to erase the stereotypes of white men as competent, morally upright, and intelligent than all you liberals have done in your whole lives.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 07-11-17 9:56 AM
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Also, if these leaks continue, how long before the pee tape hits? Asking for a friend.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 07-11-17 10:01 AM
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13: A Sexbot Goy, because it's not kosher to sleep with your son.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 07-11-17 10:15 AM
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CNN is reporting that the FBI was previously unaware of this meeting.


Posted by: ohai lurker | Link to this comment | 07-11-17 10:21 AM
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Presumably DTJ had legal advice to publish the emails, presumably because the alternative might be even worse. Let's speculate as to what that might be.


Posted by: chris y | Link to this comment | 07-11-17 10:28 AM
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29 to 32.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 07-11-17 10:31 AM
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Comey has been cleared of wrong doing by Fox & Friends, which I guess means that Fox & Friends is the new presidential enemy and morning TV watching will now be dedicated to Thomas the Tank Engine.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 07-11-17 10:41 AM
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The thread linked in 10 suggests that they're collectively trying to make it look like collusion was limited to this one abortive attempt, when in fact it was campaign-wide; indeed that Manafort may have been brought on specifically by promising linkage to Russian support (part of why Lewandowski left), and that the deal did not go away when he left the campaign.


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 07-11-17 10:48 AM
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I spent yesterday worrying that the email would turn out to be fake evidence of a true story, like what happened to Dan Rather. I guess not.

Doesn't the Russian orphan thing make more sense than at first glance? "No orphans" is an actual sanction the Russians have imposed on the US, in response to US sanctions on Russia.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 07-11-17 11:03 AM
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Sexton has a hilarious quote: "I don't think it ever occurred to journalists to just ask one of the Trump's for proof of collusion. In retrospect that feels nearsighted?"


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 07-11-17 11:04 AM
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35 - so that's the "missed connection" argument - yes Russian intel was seeking to damage Clinton/help elect Trump, and yes the Trump campaign was seeking to work with the Russian government to damage Clinton/help elect Trump, but somehow they never quite got it together.

My other alternate strategy: Trump jr. and Rob what's-his-name were playing an elaborate augmented reality game! They didn't want to admit it before because only NERDS play LARPS like that.


Posted by: Tom Scudder | Link to this comment | 07-11-17 11:12 AM
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YOU: seeking to damage Clinton/elect Trump/end sanctions, in a yellow sundress, high noon, Trump Towers last June
ME: smarmy nepot in a suit, fervently trying to get my daddy to look at me. Sparks flew. Felt connection?


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 07-11-17 11:16 AM
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Heh.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 07-11-17 11:44 AM
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Failson #1's explanation as of Sunday was "We thought she was giving us dirt on Clinton but she started yakking about adoption and nothing came of it." My surmise was that she was explaining about the Magnitsky Act/adoption retaliation history, and was planning to cap it with "So if we come to a mutual understanding, hopefully Americans will be able to adopt from Russia again soon!" - so a heavily winking quid pro quo, Hillary dirt => dropping sanctions => adoption - but she didn't realize just how much she had to dumb things down for him to not lose the thread. (Manafort probably got it though; I think he was in the room.)


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 07-11-17 11:46 AM
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Kushner seems to think he can duck by referring questions to Junior.

The video TPM has posted of Trump -- between the emails setting up the meeting and the meeting itself -- bragging about upcoming revelations about Clinton are pretty delicious. Oh yeah, didn't know anything about anything.

So, if it's not Pence driving the disclosures right now, doesn't it pretty much have to be Putin? Through some compromised schmoe in the WH. This really doesn't seem like your ordinary Kushner/Bannon/Cohn/Priebus insider power play.


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 07-11-17 11:56 AM
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The thing that got me abut the emails was that the original, from Goldstone, if I got it, I would file it with all the other letters from Nigeria offering me unimaginable riches.


Posted by: NW | Link to this comment | 07-11-17 11:58 AM
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Why I feel the urge to comment as George V. Higgins I also can't explain


Posted by: NW | Link to this comment | 07-11-17 11:58 AM
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My working theory on how "tweet out" differs from "tweet": the preposition makes it not just a random tweet but a speech-action with some consequence: disclosing new information, insulting someone, etc.

That sounds reasonable. I would have said that many times when we tweet, we don't really care if anyone sees it--it often takes on a private, quasi-confessional form. If you aren't prominent, most tweets don't get much interaction and you can pretend it's just you and some friends in a bar. When you tweet "out," you let that fiction slide and acknowledge your intent to have as many people see it as possible.


Posted by: dalriata | Link to this comment | 07-11-17 12:07 PM
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34: If Thomas the Tank Engine is the new morning show, I look forward to reading Trump turning on them.

"Thomas and Percy too slow for our failing mail service, Emily leaking oil from her whatever. Disgusting! #MSGA"


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 07-11-17 12:10 PM
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42 - could be Bannon trying to knife Kushner. Dumb but then all these people are dumb.


Posted by: Tom Scudder | Link to this comment | 07-11-17 12:16 PM
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... and the Missed Connection theory does appear to be what people are trying to roll with.


Posted by: Tom Scudder | Link to this comment | 07-11-17 1:08 PM
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So much lying and spinning and spinning lying. Forget even the content of this thing--it's all just the distilled abusive bad craziness of the whole fucking batshit right-wing infused with a stench of NYC/Russian mobster real-estate mojo.

Fox News puts up the critical email on the screen with the Russian government stuff elided....

House and Senate Repubs barely pause in their goat-fucking to indicate this will not distract them from the fucking of goats.

I like this plan...


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 07-11-17 2:02 PM
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A google image search for Rob Goldstone includes many hidden gems.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 07-11-17 2:04 PM
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House and Senate Repubs barely pause in their goat-fucking to indicate this will not distract them from the fucking of goats.

Indeed, they appear to be taking the opportunity to cart in a few ibexes and turs for variety. New Cruz-appeasing health bill text possibly this week.


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 07-11-17 2:44 PM
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I wonder if Congressional Republicans have really thought out the ramifications of accepting Trump's collusion with Russian hackers as no big deal. Basically, its tacit agreement that cyberespionage constitutes fair tactics in an electoral setting. And if those are the new rules of the game, well, I expect hackers will be very busy during the 2018 and 2020 election seasons.


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 07-11-17 6:13 PM
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I think you are drastically overestimating their sense of moral consistency and various other things.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 07-11-17 6:42 PM
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The Republican Party has lost Joe Scarborough. Keep trying to make a pun headline about it, but I can't make a joke involving "Scarborough" and "Fair" without wanting to vomit.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 07-11-17 6:59 PM
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Shocked, not shocked, The emails were discovered in recent weeks by Mr. Kushner's legal team as it reviewed documents, and they amended his clearance forms to disclose it, according to people briefed on the developments, who like others declined to be identified because of the sensitive political and legal issues involved.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 07-11-17 7:43 PM
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Krauthammer. https://twitter.com/igorvolsky/status/884917890121682950


Posted by: slolernr | Link to this comment | 07-12-17 5:59 AM
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I must admit it is rather heartwarming, from a UK point of view, to see how close the ties still are between our two great nations. The Watergate scandal was strictly US-only, albeit with a strong German accent, and to be frank we were all a little disappointed about that over here (would it have killed Nixon to hire one foreign plumber?), but this business seems to have a very strong Commonwealth element, what with Goldstone and Farage and Assange (hiding in London) and so on. It's not so much Stupid Watergate as Ugly Normandy Landings.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 07-12-17 6:12 AM
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Doesn't the Russian orphan thing make more sense than at first glance?

My first thought was that it sounded like the plot of The Americans or Salt, and I'm sure there's some pithy remark to be made about how dumb the Trumps are if they think facilitating that is the more innocent option, but I was too hours late and don't tweet. Oh well, I live in a constant state of l'espirit d'escalier.

So, if it's not Pence driving the disclosures right now, doesn't it pretty much have to be Putin?

It would be in Russia's interests to have a strong president who's in their pocket. It would be in Putin's personal interest to discredit democracy, to make it seem pointless and discredit his critics. I would have thought the two were mutually exclusive, but we'll see if the Republicans stick with Trump through this. They have so far.


Posted by: Cyrus | Link to this comment | 07-12-17 6:15 AM
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Among the tidbits of the latest dueling NYT/WaPo "White House in disarray" pieces was that the total BS "orphan" response that was initially came out was worked by the White House folks on the way back from G-20. So not just Don Jr. being an idiot but a more concerted attempt to cover up (and apparently the emails were know about by WH lawyers for some time).

We are still in a desperate race as to whether this current manifestation of crazy evil is what does it all in, or do we kick it down the road a few years. And it pretty much depends on to exactly how resentful the snowflakarati are about fancy-sounding food.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 07-12-17 7:41 AM
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"GOP mourning Joe's loss"


Posted by: Ginger Yellow | Link to this comment | 07-12-17 10:11 AM
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(would it have killed Nixon to hire one foreign plumber?)

SO QUICKLY THEY FORGET.


Posted by: OPINIONATED CUBAN EMIGRES | Link to this comment | 07-12-17 10:33 AM
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||

It's silly, but Andy Serkis reading a Trump tweet in the Gollum voice is surprisingly fabulous (the final "sad" is perfect).

|>


Posted by: NickS | Link to this comment | 07-12-17 6:18 PM
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http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/did-17-intelligence-agencies-really-come-to-consensus-on-russia/


Posted by: roger the cabin boy | Link to this comment | 07-13-17 6:35 AM
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62 is indeed exceptionally good.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 07-13-17 6:41 AM
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http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/did-17-intelligence-agencies-really-come-to-consensus-on-russia/

I would say (1) yes, much of the evidence connecting Russians to the various hacks are circumstantial and not definitive and (2) many of the short-cuts in process that the article discusses can be explained by the fact that they were rushing to complete something before the entire inquiry got killed by a new administration.

In an ideal world the proper response to those questions would be to start a lengthier, more transparent review process. At this point I don't think there's any doubt that the Trump administration is completely opposed to that (either out of personal pique, because they have something to hide, or both).

It had absolutely devolved into an adversarial process, and that leads to both sides overstating their claims, but I don't see an alternative that wouldn't be adversarial.

62 is indeed exceptionally good.

I was thinking: part of what makes it good is that he doesn't just do the Gollum voice, he gets into character, and it demonstrates how much subtlety he brings to the role.


Posted by: NickS | Link to this comment | 07-13-17 8:16 AM
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Well, he can probably only speak that high-pitched when his anus is split open by sitting in that pose.


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 07-13-17 8:38 AM
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JMM, just now:
My sense is also that Trump is not the type to make sure he doesn't find out things he doesn't want to know.

Really? My sense is that 's exactly the type he is. I mean, he doesn't find out things he surely would want to know, were he a normal human being. Of course he's not going to find out things he doesn't want to know. He doesn't even know what he doesn't know.


Posted by: Ginger Yellow | Link to this comment | 07-13-17 11:51 AM
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I think Josh means that Trump isn't organized enough to systematically protect himself from guilty knowledge. There's a good chance he might organically not know almost anything, because he's an incurious dope. And there's a good chance he'd forget anything he did find out. But he's not going to have a clearheaded sense of which questions not to ask and which rocks not to look under for fear of finding out something that would implicate him.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 07-13-17 11:56 AM
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Wednesday's print edition of the NYT had "But His Emails" as the title of this editorial. Blandly changed to "Donald Trump Jr. Makes the Russian Connection" online.


Posted by: Nathan Williams | Link to this comment | 07-13-17 12:19 PM
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It seems obvious that Trump has something to hide. That is why it is so very disappointing that no concrete proof has emerged by now.


Posted by: roger the cabin boy | Link to this comment | 07-13-17 12:50 PM
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Oops 70 to 65.


Posted by: roger the cabin boy | Link to this comment | 07-13-17 12:50 PM
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70: "If only he'd knock over a bank or something"?


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 07-13-17 1:07 PM
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I'd go further and say that he would specifically seek out information that could contaminate/implicate him. The "yeah, let's screw the bitch and make some money!" kinds of things Russia was offering are probably the exact things he finds most interesting.


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 07-13-17 1:17 PM
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72- I really think that if proof came out that Trump was an asset of the Russians, and or that they fixed the election, people would get serious about this.

Jr's emails are pretty close to the same level as the 'bad optics' the Clintons suffered for 25+ years.

I'm not saying Democrats aren't entitled to try to make a stink about it. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. But most people are tuning this stuff out as part of why they hate politics. Hell I'm not sure they are wrong to do so.


Posted by: roger the cabin boy | Link to this comment | 07-13-17 1:38 PM
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I guess I think 20-30 years from now, proof will emerge that responsible authorities knew Trump was a traitor and the Russians fixed the election, but they decided to sit on it because reasons.


Posted by: roger the cabin boy | Link to this comment | 07-13-17 1:41 PM
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New TNR article on how Russian mob money has been benefiting Trump since his early days.


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 07-13-17 1:44 PM
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New to me therein: the strong implication that a benefit of licensing the Trump name for your development is that it functions as a welcome mat for oligarch/mob buyers.


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 07-13-17 1:47 PM
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Jr's emails are pretty close to the same level as the 'bad optics' the Clintons suffered for 25+ years.

Jesus christ are you an insane moron.

It's interesting how the trolling dynamic has kind of snapped back to what it was the last time we had a Republican president. I don't remember having this sort of bullshit for the last eight years. Different bullshit, but not this bullshit.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 07-13-17 1:56 PM
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Trump is really completely off the scale as far as corruption goes. He hasn't even filed the disclosures that people picked over to get most of the 'bad optics' stuff on the Clintons that wasn't just made up.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 07-13-17 2:13 PM
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But what might still save him is that he doesn't use email.


Posted by: peep | Link to this comment | 07-13-17 2:28 PM
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Speaking of emails, how about Trump's lawyer?


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 07-13-17 2:33 PM
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OK, so we know that projection is a big thing with Trump and his people - they accuse their opponents of doing or being exactly what they secretly do or are themselves, right?

And Trump doesn't drink. Famously never touches alcohol.

He never goes to church. Even his supporters don't claim he is a devoted Christian.

He always starts tweeting really early in the morning. Why is he always awake that early? It's like he has something important that he has to do at dawn every day.

He's been to the Middle East and loves it. He gets on really well with the Saudis and the Egyptians and so on. It's like they really have something fundamental in common with him. (He doesn't get on well with people like the Catholics Justin Trudeau and Malcolm Turnbull or the Lutheran pastor's daughter Angela Merkel.)

And he's had multiple wives. His current one dresses very modestly, even wears a headscarf on occasion. I've seen the photos.

And, of course, he spent years accusing Barack Obama of being secretly Muslim.



Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 07-13-17 2:43 PM
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82: Not bad. Could rank up there with #trumpcantswim.

Incidentally, Trump just shifted his preferred goalpost to "at least it wasn't treason".


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 07-13-17 3:02 PM
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Did anyone actually see him eating in public during Ramadan? I certainly didn't.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 07-13-17 3:10 PM
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Zakat: the real reason he's hiding his tax returns!


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 07-13-17 3:21 PM
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And the man has his own charity. He's even requested his accounts receivable be paid directly to it.


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 07-13-17 3:25 PM
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83.2: "Better than actual terrorists" is next.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 07-13-17 3:25 PM
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You know who else told people to give to charities?


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 07-13-17 3:35 PM
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Sally Struthers. And all of those terrorists with their clipboards.


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 07-13-17 3:57 PM
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If Trump really is in Putin's pockets, what are the odds that we're ever going to find out for sure? I think it's below 1:5. Putin is smart and my guess is that Russia's governance structure provides him with enough free time to have plotted this whole thing out. Maybe he's banking on Americans who find out doing nothing.


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 07-13-17 4:02 PM
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You don't pay women to pee on you, you pay them to not talk about peeing on you.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 07-13-17 4:15 PM
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Or you pay them to talk about peeing on you if you're lonely and that commercial comes on again.


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 07-13-17 4:20 PM
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