Being slovenly and wrinkled seems like a good idea. Years ago, I stopped having my shirts pressed because the no-iron shirts were easier and looked about the same. Maybe I should go back to regular shirts but not ironing. I'm not wearing bright colors, just on general principles.
Nobody is jumping up to say "camel hair sports coat with leather elbow patches"?
I've gone to skinny jeans, but since I've made full professor I can wear WTF I want.
I don't think the dean -- who's hardcore Baptist and wears a very nice suit every day -- exactly approves, but he ain't called me on it yet.
How about a cardigan? Those seem pretty un-republican. But then maybe I just don't know the right republicans.
I heard somewhere that ripped jeans are back.
I don't know how anybody wears skinny jeans and testicles.
4: Technically, I living Mr. Roger's Neighborhood. I can't wear one out of doors.
I don't own any jeans, not even in blue.
Cardigan + ripped jeans could be the hot new look. This is your chance to be a trend setter.
Just one of these buttons for each of your tops will solve the problem.
per 9:
http://www.bluemaize.net/im/cardigans/kurt-cobain-cardigan-1.jpg
In the US bright colors on a middle-aged white guy with reasonable grooming signal E Coast old style Republican, particularly if they are formerly-brighter. I've no idea if your grooming would put you in the danger zone, Moby.
Is it just me or was there briefly a post up re G&T school programs?
Also i really should stop looking at the comments on apt11d. The bizarre social and political attitudes of some of those people are bad enough, but now they are getting into utter rubbish on skin care, it's just too much.
I think I have reasonable grooming. I mostly brush my teeth before leaving the house. I give the nose hairs a good trim whenever I have a conference cal.
I was just looking at duck hunter clothes in case nobody had a better idea. I came across this gem:
Orvis men's clothes are cut generously to accommodate an active country lifestyle.
I think they're pointing out their customers are fat.
If you go with colors make sure they're bright, pastels might still tag you as a Nazi.
So many thoughts about this! My husband and I have had many discussions about what to wear now that we're adults but don't have to dress at all professionally.
He hates skinny jeans/pants and I'm arguing that the baggy pants he likes makes him look like he hasn't bought pants since the 1990s. I bought him a pair of skinny ankle/baggy crotch pants that he actually likes (A of all, I cannot believe I'm buying a grown man clothes; B of all, they're really not that baggy in the crotch but they're more comfortable than true skinny jeans). ANYway, try Uniqlo for khakis that aren't southern or right-wing. They're skinnier and tapered at the ankle in a way that's not flattering but is stylish and comfortable which is like the best 2 out of 3. Top-wise - t-shirts (black/grey/forest green/dark red) and long-sleeved jean shirts. But don't wear the jean shirt open to show the t-shirt. Black or navy casual jackets. Red or maroon or orange shoes would be great. Thick rimmed glasses?
Reading Apt11D and comments makes me realize that the stereotypical NYT reader actually does exist. I'm excited to hate-read about skin care there (I just bought my first AHA product so now I'm officially old).
Yeah weirdly pastels are super popular in the South with Republicans so go for 'old fashioned hunting colours'. The undergrads at my school dressed like a preppy NE gay man but with looser clothes and strings for their sunglasses ('crocs'?). And containers to spit their chew into.
Not dressing like a Southern women is easier - just don't straighten your hair.
A real man can chew tobacco without spitting except maybe a couple of times right after the dip goes in.
I just bought my first AHA product so now I'm officially old
If you were really old, you'd have bought the "Take On Me" single.
I think you personally can get a good amount of non-Republican mileage in your style neighborhood out of wearing your hair on the slightly grown-out and rumpled side. If you're wearing jackets, let them perhaps be tweedy. Oxford shirts or chambray or whatever instead of golf shirts, yes. T-shirts rather than undershirts underneath, also good. Agreed with hydrobatidae on pretty much all points, including "classic hunting colors" and Uniqlo. Also you are probably joking but I think you should go right ahead and buy trousers from Orvis if you want 'em.
I was actually looking at the field jacket.
What's the difference between a t-shirt and an undershirt? One says "J Crew" and the other "Hanes"?
Orvis pants make me nervous because they have a whole category called "comfort waist." I don't think I've given up that completely yet.
I will look at Uniqlo. That seems reasonable on a quick review.
Black Lives Matter pin, problem solved.
This probably won't work for many, but I developed a uniform. I wear black jeans and muted-color turtlenecks to work. (Living and working in San Francisco, that works year-round. )
The worst outcomes I've had are "you think you're Steve Jobs or something?", and some folks I work with used the color of my turtleneck (four color options) as a randomizer to pick where they went to lunch until I found out about it and wore loud 70's abstract-spatter-print shirt on their lunch day.
I too was coming to say Uniqlo men's pants, which I wear. It will be a better look on you. (I other-too have bought a face product this week. I'm not sure who I think I am.)
If you wore rubber galoshes at all times, no one would think you were a Republican. That and it would be your signature style. If someone has to describe you as a nondescript middle aged white man, it's much more effective descriptive to say, "the one in the rubber galoshes" rather than "the one in the khakis and dress shirt."
Basically 33, but I was going to say "kilt". Galoshes work just as well.
Whatever is comfortable basically. I have developed a signature look of hiking trousers, approach shoes, soft shell jacket, sunglasses and an olive drab t shirt bearing the slogan DON'T BLAME ME I VOTED FOR HILLARY which I think is nicely ambiguous, politically.
Uniqlo is for pussies. Hold true to your love of khakis and polos and switch to 5.11 tactical pants plus dark colored polos for the off duty cop look.
I might already look like an off duty cop. Nobody will sell me pot.
I could try those multicolored Fjallraven pants.
In the US bright colors on a middle-aged white guy with reasonable grooming signal E Coast old style Republican, particularly if they are formerly-brighter.
Not in Texas!
Bright colors signal like preppy-rugby boarding school? I'm really not clear on why there's so much regional variation on bright colors. Here if a guy wears mustard yellow sneakers in his 40s, he's liberal.
Is it just me or was there briefly a post up re G&T school programs?
Yes! I thought this was more fun, so I saved that for tomorrow.
The conservative assistant professor in my department does indeed wear khaki trousers. He wears a button down pale blue or white shirt and a sweater vest with them, though. In the winter he wears what I believe is called derby hat, though once I saw him in a Fedora.
The liberal (male) professor wears, in the winter, various shades of brown or dark green cords with also button-down shirts and sometimes a tweed jacket and sometimes wool sweaters. Summers he wears just the button downs, no tie.
The poet wears skinny jeans with odd teeshirts, or shorts with even odder teeshirts, in the summer. In the winter the same skinny jeans, but with sweatshirts or jerseys. Sometimes, when he wears a real shirt under his jerseys, he wears a bowtie.
The Honors College Professor, who is LDS, always wears a very shabby suit, and no tie.
(Our female professors... but their dress will be of no help to Moby.)
Corduroy pants are a good option. I can't picture a Nazi in corduroy.
My NYC-dwelling young adult sons wear Uniqlo khakis and polos from time to time - usually when they need to look reasonably respectable but the occasion doesn't rise to button down shirts and/or ties - but the brightly colored socks, Vans and facial stubble serve as "I'm not a Nazi" cues. Maby Moby just needs to accessorize properly.
If people are routinely mistaking you for a Nazi, you might want to check in the mirror to see if you have a Hitler mustache or a swastika tattooed somewhere prominent.
I recommend either a sombrero or a keffiyeh. Maybe both at the same time.
ACTUALLY THE NAZIS DRESSED BETTER THAN YOU, HICK.
pink lacoste shirts are fine on the laydeez, though. but then I wear vintage lilly pulitzer skirts and pants. wasp heritage, bro. you have to wear them with cool boots and lots of eyeliner or something though or it's too much, although sometimes I knuckle under and just go for the jack rogers sandals, if I'm actually in east hampton.
as to moby's problem, I very much go with the uniqlo khakis, recommend cool but monochrome non-worky shoes if his office will tolerate it (like all-black suede adidas or something?), think corduroy pants could be cool, and think he can gauge the local valence of colored polos. skinny jeans and bright red throwback air jordans would be a little much. ooh, and the messenger bag is a great idea. useful on the bus too. unless you want the wine purse.
47 really made me want to locate some sort of dress-up web app, where you upload a picture of yourself and paste different outfits on it, as a good way to augment this post. I am way too incompetent to find anything like that by searching for it using words. Useful helpful comment!
45: I've had luck with the vaguely similar Vans, non-matching socks, and unkempt beard and hair. Or at least I assume everyone assumes I'm not a nazi. I haven't explicitly asked any strangers on the bus yet.
I've been wearing hiking shoes all summer. I may stick with that.
51: asking people on the bus if they think you're a nazi is, unfortunately, sometimes a way of seeming like a nazi.
I have, in fact, have strangers come up and tell me I looked like a Nazi. Maybe I shouldn't be giving dressing tips after all.
My students used to tell me I looked like a hippie. But then I cut all my hair off. It used to be nearly 2 feet long, and now is 1/4 of an inch too long to be called a crew cut.
My kid says I am more butch than most of the hardcore Lesbians she knows, so I assume my students would like to say I look hard butch, but are afraid to tell me so. (Why would they be afraid of me? It puzzles me too. I am such a softie! Well, except for the hair. And the way I go after plagiarists like a enraged member of the Inquisition. That.)
another Uniqlo fan here. I don't like pants that restrict movement, but Uniqlo's slim fit and jeggings ("jeans leggins" on their site) have elastic in them and are super comfy. To most people they'll just look like normal skinny jeans. Jeans aficionadoes (people who care about 'selvedge', whatever that is) will turn their nose up at them.
Another approach is to go full antifa/black bloc all the time.
I can't believe no one has yet suggested a Bob Marley tee. Also, if you grow dreads, not only will you not look like a Nazi, but you'll signal to the ladies on the veldt street that you can grow Mel Gibson-levels of hair like a real manly man.
Also, you might get more pot offers.
59/60: Didn't work for Homer Simpson.
I'm wondering if Moby's non-Republicanism won't usually be evident from situational clues (riding bus, working at university, reading Heidegger). The question, then, is how to signal appropriately in the remaining situations: what should Moby drink at the bar?
It is funny, the Khaki/blue button-down look on white male in these parts says "biz dev dude". Whom I also avoid, but for different reasons than Nazis and/or Republicans. (None of the biz-dev types I know are, to my knowledge, either, but, again, Bay Area.)
62: If Republicans have taken over the traditional rusty nail, all hope is lost. (I had a Campari and tonic at the local gay socialist bar today, though all the other socialists there were straight. Or in the other woman's case straight for a millennial woman at least. I don't think the drink generalizes. But I'll be back Friday to work on our joint presentation and agreed to have a shot with the bartender, so I guess I have to find a specialized answer to this myself.)
I guess I'm at a loss here. Is Moby trying to avoid being beaten-down, so he can't be *obvious* about his being a Dem? (like, by wearing an "I'm With Her" pin)? I get that. If I lived in Texas, I'd have a Bush bumper sticker, just to blend in. But hey, I live in SF, so I can afford to be out with my hatred of Rs of all stripes.
I mean, is this as simple as a lapel-pin? Pink-triangle lapel-pin does it, doesn't it?
s/If I lived in Texas/If I *still* lived in Texas/
For men, the thing that signals "not-Republican," while still being business-appropriate, is a quirky, and perhaps cheekily-ironic, tie. Nothing too "tasteful," and nothing nautical. An ugly tie with the motif of a local sports team, for example.
44: I've just finished a book about the Desert Rats (7th Armoured Division) whose preferred fighting dress was "corduroy trousers, civilian shirts, silk scarf, polo boots and a fly whisk, and in cold weather a Persian goatskin coat, worn with the hair inside" and since they obviously weren't Nazis I reckon you should try that.
I'm usually the worst at recognizing/understanding fashion cues, but I have noticed in recent months that I have a visceral, immediate reaction to any white man who has what I perceive to be a Nazi/fascist haircut. It's like a deep undercurrent of alarm and danger. I've never had a reaction that strong that I can remember. Sometimes I don't even consciously realize what triggered it until I start wondering why I'm vaguely nauseated.
All of which is to say, gestures by non-Nazis to differentiate themselves will be gratefully appreciated by this woman at least.
I'm planning to wear a short-sleeve shirt with collar* tomorrow, which will have a better chance of making me not look exactly like the groups of tech people** attending an event in my building tomorrow. The last time I was around a stereotypically heavily male, mostly white and Asian, tech event I felt way too self-conscious about having pretty close to the same t-shirt and slacks style. Don't appropriate the casualness I grew up with, and was happy to return to, bros!
*Yeah, I know this is not the proper attire in many contexts, especially if you're one of those collar shirts have long-sleeves or you might as well wear underwear as outerwear purists. But I'm not going full collar shirt unless there's good reason, like a job applicant is doing an interview or there's a meeting with people who customarily dress business casual or more formally.
**Not sure if it's a bro-ish startupy group or a different kind of tech group.
I wear a Saboteur badge on my lightweight (unlined blue cotton, pretty much denim) coat I wear for work for subtle signalling reasons.
https://twitter.com/markthomasinfo/status/864159276322959361?lang=en
Good quality not baggy dark jeans are a decent alternative to khakis. I wear mine with suede or leather brogues, leather soled desert boots, or leather Gazelles (http://www.prodirectselect.com/productimages/V3_1_Main/117329.jpg).
Also, I've discovered that my favorite messenger bag*, not the laundromat's machines, is wearing away some of my softer clothing so I have to be careful to either dress appropriately or use a different bag if I'm going to be walking a lot.
*Because somehow I've gone into having more than one territory.
Why the fly whisk? How worn?
Because in desert many flies. Carried casually in hand, assume.
I'm usually the worst at recognizing/understanding fashion cues, but I have noticed in recent months that I have a visceral, immediate reaction to any white man who has what I perceive to be a Nazi/fascist haircut.
It's like gaydar, but for Nazis. What do you call gaydar that detects Nazis?
("Radar".)
Oh, yes, of course.
But at all costs avoid Red Trousers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5pZS4jdI-o
I don't know how anybody wears skinny jeans and testicles.
You should always leave your testicles on the side table if you're wearing skinny jeans.
74: I had the same problem, except I blamed my ass on the chair. Once I switched sides (so that the bag hung on the opposite side as the one I carried my wallet in), I stopped getting holes in my pants.
69: Didn't the Germans shoot you if they captured you out of uniform?
66: Unless the occasion specifically calls for it, I try not tot wear clothes with words or explicit symbols. This is either because of my upbringing or because I read too much Fran Lebowitz as a young man. Anyway, I notice lots of (presumably) conservative types wearing flag lapel pins or religious types something religious. feel I should be capable of the same level of signalling with greater subtly.
80: I assume they still had distinctively military hats or something.
OT: Shkreli is jailed, apparently until sentencing, because he's a shithead 100%. He meant what he said and he said what he meant.
and he disrespected the Wu-Tang Clan 100%.
re: 82
Sadly my paternal grandfather is long dead, or I'd have asked. He spent part of WW2 scooting about the desert in a jeep with a bunch of Sikh guys, dragging for Rommel's field telephone lines. So he'd probably have known.
If you're moving in a jeep, you can probably leave the whisk behind.
, approach shoes,
Are these like fuck-me boots, but more standoffish?
In MA you can dress any way you want and no one will take you for a Republican. That's unless you dress like the state's token Republican, Charlie Baker.
87: If you see a woman on the bus wearing ear buds and approach shoes, you don't know whether to say hello or not.
Yelp/TripAdvisor review of WW2 in North Africa:
"Okay, apart from the flies. Bring a whisk."
Right now, since it cooled off enough for me to call "fall", I'm wearing Chelsea boots. That seems pro-Clinton enough.
||
So I just found out who got the job I went for back in the spring and he has vastly more experience than I do in a variety of different institutions - just as the head of the search committee had written to me - so on the one hand I don't feel so bad but on the other I feel terrible.
|>
Have you thought about signing up for Nickleback mailing lists using his address?
I can recommend Uniqlo cardigans. I have one in deep forest-green, that I wear to work with a collared shirt and slim wool pants. (This after a previous lifetime in jeans and t-shirts.) My wife says that it's a little reminiscent of what the American Nazi guy in the Man in the High Castle tv series wears on his days off. But I don't think it codes that way outside of an alternate reality.
The Uniqlo hoodies with two-way zippers are amazing and I'm wearing mine now, but I don't know if I see Moby leaning that way. I guess it would look non-Republican at least.
Why would you want a two-way zipper on a hoodie?
If you have both breasts and a gut and want it to have an hourglass fit, to pick a totally random example.
I guess you could form a kind of hoodie corset.
Speaking of objectifying people, every time I start to feel repeated HIPAA training is pointless, reality reminds me thatshithead is a continuously renewed resource.
More seriously, having two-way zips on things is quite useful if you want to get at a pocket at waist level in the thing underneath without having to unzip the thing all the way down.
What's more serious than properly displayed cleavage?
he has vastly more experience than I do in a variety of different institutions
Maybe that means he'll quit and go for a different job in a relatively short time.
71: I have that same issue, but here in NYC, that haircut was ALSO popular for a while among some of trendy gay men, so there is a LOT of signal confusion going on - you have to use other context clues to figure out what side of the line someone may be on.
More generally on the clothing front - something I figured out when I lived in italy...People often think that the europeans, particularly italians, are significantly better dressers than us. they're really not that much. They wear jeans and t-shirts just as much as we do. The main difference I realized?
THEY WEAR CLOTHES THAT FIT rather than oversized sacks of fabric. I was thinking about this yesterday as I walked behind three men in grand central terminal, all of whom were wearing dumpy slacks that you could fit an entire other person into and button down shirts that ballooned out around their waistlines like they were being pumped full of actual air.
As a plus-sized woman, I'm certainly guilty of going down the road of favoring the unstructured Eileen Fisher/caftan look myself, but I try to make it a curated "look", rather than just slovenly-ness.
Clothes that fit - that'll get you at least 80% of the way there.
Oh, and nice shoes. Whether they're sneaker-type shoes or dress shoes, good shoes change your entire look for the better.
Morgan Freedman said men will never notice my shoes.
Anyway, dress shirts used to be huge, but all the new ones appear to be cut slimmer.
Great Uniqlo buy: https://www.uniqlo.com/uk/en/product/men-cable-crew-neck-sweater-400641.html?dwvar_400641_size=SMA002&dwvar_400641_color=COL01&cgid=IDmen
That said the amaaaazing pale blue cruiser jacket has apparently disappeared forever, which is a pity as mine has gone permanently grubby on the cuffs.
I also recently bought one of these:
https://www.oliversweeney.com/sweffling-charcoal-wool-blazer
I admit it's spendy, but it looks likely to last forever. The old man bit around the neck zips out into normality.
I sort of want to give that model $1 so he can get a cup of coffee.
I know it won't do much but let him be warm for a bit and salve my conscience, but I can't repair society while I'm waiting for the bus.
95. Doesn't tMitHC's Smith just code as "evil Fred MacMurray"? Maybe that's congruent to "Republican," though.
Men may never notice, but trust me, women do :)
I like my feet the way I like my women: calloused and in leather.
Now I feel bad I didn't notice your feet when we met, Mobes. I'm letting down the side.
TBH, I'm surprised Moby needs this advice, because I always assumed his wardrobe sprung complete from a 1994 Dockers catalogue.
I feel like the mystique has worn off a bit.
I don't like feet, but I do love shoes (because they hide feet, I guess).
And yeah, I do notice a man's shoes. Whatever keeps those gnarly toes decently covered, and the more stylishly the better.
I wear a bracelet with some om symbols on it and in bright orange (turmeric dye). I'm deficient in both melanin and hair follicle.
Clothes should fit but I have been trying to work with different silouettes so I have enjoyed the drop crotch/jogger thing
118: In 1994, I was a graduate student. I wore jeans and the same sweatshirt every day until it got too warm in the spring.
I've also faced Moby's situation, and have adopted many of the solutions upthread (although Uniqlo is terra incognito for me). Never polo? Check*. Non-standard colors? Check. Pants that aren't khakis? Check. Interesting shoes? Check. Jackets that are distinctive? Super-check.
I mentioned long ago that I've always felt that, as an architect, I get a pass on dressing farther outside the norm than most, but this thread really brings home just how much the mainstream has moved in this direction.
FWIW, I mostly buy new clothes through Levi's. It started because their [bike] Commuter collection started out brilliant, but I like the breadth of their offerings: in addition to regular jeans in the expected variety of cuts and washes, you get jeans in colors, non-denim jeans that dress up or down, and regular pants in a variety of materials, styles, & colors, but with sizing and cuts I have confidence in. Also, good sales. I troll through their clearance section every couple of months.
*I own a single polo short, which my dad gave to me, and which I only kept because it's a technical fabric, making it suited for use when biking to a meeting where I don't want to be wearing either a bike jersey or a sweaty cotton shirt. When my kids see me in it, they act as if I'm wearing, like, a Catholic priest's getup.
Also: endorse 105. It's possible that AB actually pointed out the well-fitting clothes thing last time we were in Europe. If I had a big clothes budget, I would love to overhaul my wardrobe and eliminate all non-fitted shirts. Unfortunately A. I simply can't afford that, and B. while my weight is reasonably OK and steady, I'm in a sort of denial about my belly, and wouldn't want to spend money on shirts tailored to having it.
You know who makes good, distinctive, 100% non-Nazi clothes? Kühl and Prana, both at REI. Pricey, but I've gotten a few things over the years either on clearance or as gifts.
Oh, and the difference between undershirt and t-shirt is mostly thickness, but also often fit around the neck: undershirts tend to have very open necks so you can wear them under a shirt with an open collar. I confess to being confused by the advice to wear colored t-shirts under other shirts that are fully buttoned. How are others supposed to know? Is it when you lean over to display your man-cleavage?
Don't you leave the top button undone unless you are wearing a tie?
I keep telling my son that if he buttons all the buttons, people will take him for one of the Talking Heads. He doesn't get the reference.
124: I thought the advice above was specifically not to unbutton your shirt so as to expose the under. Looking back, I can't find it, so maybe I imagined.
Don't wear four shirts like Bannon.
I'm thinking of going to the classiest shoe store I know (Little's) and demanding to see a pair of their hipster-est shoes that come in E.
I confess to being confused by the advice to wear colored t-shirts under other shirts that are fully buttoned.
I do this when I'm going to something more casual afterwards and I tear the button shirt off as I leave the building behind me.*
*Almost as dramatic as walking away from a building just before it goes up in flames.
You know who else wears multiple shirts?
undershirt = ein reich
dress shirt = ein volk
dress overshirt = ein fuhrer
In the '80s, when they still had Jeeps and things in their stores, Banana Republic sold these great shirts made from an ultra-thin, crisp cotton. They came with tiny snaps that could be torn open so satisfyingly. You could totally pull a Superman.
I pulled them from my closet a few years ago, but kept them stashed. I should go see how they fit these days.
The answer just came to me, and I can't believe no one else thought of it before.
Go full Rockford. No one would suspect Jim Rockford of being a Republican, the man's an ex-con, and he's ambivalent enough about gun ownership that he keeps his in a can of coffee.
Two or three varyingly houndstooth or plaid blazers, and you're all set.
I'd need the thin shirts to go with the blazers. Rockford wasn't wearing oxfords.
the man's an ex-con
Don't make me go "Opinionated Chuck Colson" on you.
Also, I think I'd need to lose the pleated pants.
I guess British people would call them "pleated slacks."
