Re: "Linked In is a death cult"

1

Trump, being fascist and a lazy fuck, ruined this argument.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 12-27-17 7:25 AM
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This is good. The toxic psychic waste from these deranged shitheels threatens to drown us all.

What if someone developed an economic and social system where the manic (but focused) discharge of one's neuroses and psychoses often led to great rewards and fame?


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 12-27-17 7:27 AM
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Manic Success For Some, Flair For Others!


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 12-27-17 7:33 AM
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My Urgent-Important quadrant is all about the commenting.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 12-27-17 7:36 AM
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CALVINISTS DON'T CELEBRATE CHRISTMAS OR EASTER??!!


Posted by: Mossy Character | Link to this comment | 12-27-17 7:51 AM
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"Do they know it's Christmas time at all?"


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 12-27-17 7:54 AM
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They DO know! They invented punctuality! They're just shriveled and soulless and stuff.


Posted by: Mossy Character | Link to this comment | 12-27-17 7:57 AM
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Will your bluetooth headset make me more productive?


Posted by: Mossy Character | Link to this comment | 12-27-17 8:03 AM
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That's very on topic.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 12-27-17 8:04 AM
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I'm hoping it'll answer.


Posted by: Mossy Character | Link to this comment | 12-27-17 8:05 AM
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We now have the LinkedIn mania for being a productivity machine but I learned 10 minutes ago that we also have a mania for being... "vulnerable"?... at work?... according to this bizarre piece.


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 12-27-17 8:35 AM
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Awful.


Posted by: Barry Freed | Link to this comment | 12-27-17 9:19 AM
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Young people are the worst, excepting old people.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 12-27-17 9:20 AM
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Oh man, 12 clears some things up. A couple of weeks ago, our "agile coach" (now there's a hustle) asked us to tell each other about our aspirations, and prefaced it by saying that we don't have work selves and home selves, but are integrated people, blah blah. And I had to say, bro, no, I'm not going to share personal stuff at work (what's funny is that he's older than I am, but like I say, running a hustle). But don't the kids read Foucault anymore? Do they not recognize instruments of control when they see them? This is what happens when mommy and daddy both work, I guess. Sorry, my children! You're going to be pathetically needy, apparently.)


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 12-27-17 10:01 AM
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I'm not sure it's a good idea to be open about your aspirations at home or work.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 12-27-17 10:31 AM
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Is 12 a joke? Wtf.


Posted by: jms | Link to this comment | 12-27-17 10:39 AM
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Literally a week ago I was complaining to coworkers about "the sort of person who actually posts on LinkedIn," so I'm glad to see my biases agreed with.

"agile coach" (now there's a hustle)

My twice-yearly anti-agile screed: Fuck agile. When you try to pin down that something doesn't work about it, you get a no-true-scotsman response. It's either a meaningless term or a very specific set of practices that don't generalize well, built upon unknowable metrics and bankrupt ethics.

I was recently chatting at a local bar with someone who works for a particularly evil ride-share firm, and his philosophy justification on agile was based on some experiments done at Bell Labs (or similar): they changed the lighting in the office and noticed people became more productive. Then they changed the lighting back and productivity levels remained high. His conclusion was that if people know or believe they're being experimented on, they'll be productive. Cool, you're exploiting a stress response to get marginally more labor out of your employees! That's totally sustainable and not a recipe for burnout! Fuck you.


Posted by: dalriata | Link to this comment | 12-27-17 11:08 AM
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Side-notes: I added "2006 Time Person of the Year" to my LinkedIn profile recently, the only change in years, and my viewing metrics went way up. Make of that what you will.

Also, that the person I work with who is most pro-agile and was arguing for it was basically trying to get someone else to do the heavy lifting for them. A lot of what makes software work hard is deciding what has to change and how to verify that the change was correct and non-destructive, not actually doing it. This person argued that they weren't as efficient as they would be if someone else completely scoped out the change in our (awful) agile task management software. Agile infantilizes developers.


Posted by: dalriata | Link to this comment | 12-27-17 11:13 AM
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I don't have a great sense of what "agile" and "scrum" are supposed to mean apart from how they're implemented at this company, where I've found it silly in parts, but reasonably effective and unobtrusive on the whole*. I might be blinded by the fact that work broken down into two-week chunks threads the needle perfectly for me between having so much time that I procrastinate, and so little that I can't get immersed and really understand the issue.

* This might also be due to the fact that the product folks on our team are very deferential to the devs, and don't tell us to rush, or insist on things we say aren't a good idea.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 12-27-17 11:40 AM
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My take on agile is that it's much the same as all methodologies, That is, talented, motivated teams with good management and communication get things done. If your team is deficient in any one of these areas you are at risk, and two areas being weak is probably deadly to productivity.

"Methodology" is short hand for "how we agree we do things". Past a modest team size, this is absolutely necessary. But the fact that you agree is far more important than what you agree on.

Entire industries have spun up around the fact that what your company really wants is a better team (without paying a premium for it), but they can't have that - so people try and sell you on the trappings of other (presumptively better) teams. To the degree that this addresses weaknesses in the above categories, it can actually help. But that is a side effect, it's not really the methodology. You can probably do just as effective a job by just shaking up your processes, but this is scary. Consultants are in the business of assuaging upper managements fears (and/or providing scapegoats) ... so they flourish.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 12-27-17 11:56 AM
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Productivity as used in economic statistics is genuinely evil. Productivity is, more or less, a measure of the profit an employee earns but the shareholders keep. A 10% wage cut is a 10% increase in productivity.

Every reporter who refers to "rising productivity" as a good thing should have their salary cut by the amount of the productivity increase. I'm talking to you, Ygleasias and DeLong.


Posted by: unimaginative | Link to this comment | 12-27-17 12:03 PM
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Literally a week ago I was complaining to coworkers about "the sort of person who actually posts on LinkedIn," so I'm glad to see my biases agreed with.

The only good people who post on LinkedIn are the people who use it like Geocities for posting crazed ramblings.


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 12-27-17 12:10 PM
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But don't the kids read Foucault anymore? Do they not recognize instruments of control when they see them?

I wonder if "sharing" is more in vogue after the articles about Google's project aristotle findings (a couple years ago): http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02/28/magazine/what-google-learned-from-its-quest-to-build-the-perfect-team.html?_r=0


Posted by: NickS | Link to this comment | 12-27-17 12:17 PM
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20: There's part of it that seem reasonable, sometimes. But if your work doesn't line up with sprints, or you meet unexpected obstacles, or you couldn't estimate well in the first place (which I think is the main issue--I honestly don't believe accurate estimates are generally possible in software dev), agile is a hindrance.

21: This is where I'm at. Methodology should be driven by the humans involved; different teams have different needs and there's no one-size-fits-all. Some agile people say just to do what works, but fine, I didn't need you for that and it's bizarre that a methodological ideology gets to claim such obvious common sense.

23: It is proven through history that when a Country or the world bewildered, big catastrophes and major wars happen.

That was the opening to the first draft of Pride and Prejudice.


Posted by: dalriata | Link to this comment | 12-27-17 12:39 PM
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12 is the only thing I've seen in the wild that provides actual evidence of the afaict completely made-up stories about coddled millenials/snake people. I wonder if it's an example of writing to stereotype to get clicks, or an actual prank or parody.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 12-27-17 12:46 PM
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I've never heard of this agile thing.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 12-27-17 12:49 PM
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Some significant but still minority percentage of our place- maybe 15%?- is software developers and related trades (AEs, DBAs). Many of them have used agile for a while- I was the product owner on a project in 2012- but this year they decided it's so great that they're trying to expand it to non-software production teams. I am not optimistic about that because it's a mismatch of method and role- at one point we tried five S practices in our group and we aren't really a repetitive production operation so a lot of it didn't work. You can't set up standard workstations if the tools you use change every month or two. I tell people we got to two or three S.


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 12-27-17 1:03 PM
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Oh God, you're totally right. It was during a "psychological safety" meeting.

What Project Aristotle has taught people within Google is that no one wants to put on a ''work face'' when they get to the office. No one wants to leave part of their personality and inner life at home. But to be fully present at work, to feel ''psychologically safe,'' we must know that we can be free enough, sometimes, to share the things that scare us without fear of recriminations.

No, you fuckfaces, I absolutely want to leave my personality and inner life at home, and I want you to leave yours at home. There's this insane elision between feeling safe to make a mistake or offer a suggestion for a major change in a work process, and feeling safe to share intimate things about ourselves. This then becomes weaponized into a forced confessional: give us a truth about yourself, for the good of the company, the good of the team.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 12-27-17 1:27 PM
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^^ addressing Nick in 24.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 12-27-17 1:28 PM
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Holy shit. No, to feel "psychologically safe" I must know that I can be free from my coworkers unloading their personal issues on me while I'm trying to fucking get my work done.


Posted by: jms | Link to this comment | 12-27-17 1:32 PM
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What Project Aristotle has taught people within Google is that no one wants to put on a ''work face'' when they get to the office. No one wants to leave part of their personality and inner life at home. But to be fully present at work, to feel ''psychologically safe,'' we must know that we can be free enough, sometimes, to share the things that scare us without fear of recriminations.

You know how we have the word WEIRD to point out when supposedly conclusive psychology studies are all done on Western college students? Can we get a word for when we see nonsense like the above, based on "research" on wealthy young unmarried Silicon Valley people who find jobs by cultivating their personal brand and online presence? And how, based on the same people, nobody who runs a social network can imagine a legitimate reason why someone would want to use a pseudonym?


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 12-27-17 1:57 PM
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22 is bizarre and wrong. Labor productivity is the output per hour of work (adjusted for inflation). There's also total factor productivity that tries to adjust for the amount of tools, etc. Theory predicts, in fact, that wages should rise with increased productivity. This actually held true up until Friend to the Working Man Ronald Reagan became president.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 12-27-17 3:00 PM
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The Overmind requires no distinction between your work face and your private face.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 12-27-17 3:08 PM
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What about your game face?


Posted by: politicalfootball | Link to this comment | 12-27-17 3:16 PM
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The fact that you even ask the question proves that you are too limited to join the Overmind. But the answer is yes.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 12-27-17 3:22 PM
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36

Speaking of cults and Silicon Valley company cultures.


Posted by: fake accent | Link to this comment | 12-27-17 3:23 PM
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37 - Peter Thiel is a horrible person but that insight isn't terrible, and the business as cult thing seems both real and not at all unique to Silicon Valley startups, or perhaps even the United States, and also not particularly new (at least in professional firms). The old IBM arguably was run something like a cult. Some of the most respectable law firms have cult-like features -- at Cravath, Swaine and Moore, a law firm which has been around for more than 100 years, each partner marches down the aisle at the funeral of any other partner. Maybe it's just another way of saying that charismatic authority, as well as wages or strict personal self-interest or a rational belief in the organization's goals, are important drivers of why people work for an organization or derive satisfaction from their work.

The thing about business, though, is that even though the cult-like features very much motivate people to show up to work, once the business really stops producing or wages stop being paid the cult collapses pretty quickly. That check is definitely a good thing.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 12-27-17 4:08 PM
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The best Pho places have a vicious seeming middle-aged person running them with what seems on the outside to be an iron fist. They don't give out their names, but it seems to me that neither Uncle Bloodshed (clearly an ex-military guy) at the one place or Auntie Humorless at the other are much interested in charisma. Not sure if there's a godparent figure at the larger Tank Noodle, but the visible managers I'm pretty sure don't put effort into their linkedIn presences.

Though maybe a pho shanty is different from Intel or IBM somehow. Let me think about that one.


Posted by: lw | Link to this comment | 12-27-17 4:40 PM
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If i practiced as part of a cult could i get a semi usable first draft out of a junior and a correctly compiled appendix out of a paralegal who is faaaar too experienced to be making infuriating rookie mistakes? Cause that would be an effective recruiting pitch, at the moment.


Posted by: sissi of bavaria | Link to this comment | 12-27-17 5:17 PM
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40: Depends. What's your position on human sacrifice and expediting the end of the world?


Posted by: Opinionated Cthulhu | Link to this comment | 12-27-17 5:51 PM
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Human sacrifice, marching down the aisle at funerals, and expediting the end of the world all seem like small prices to pay for not having to share personal feelings at work.


Posted by: fake accent | Link to this comment | 12-27-17 7:50 PM
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This all sounds very reminiscent of Max Gladstone's Craft Sequence. (Which I'm finally reading after it was recommended here, thank you for whomever brought it up!)


Posted by: dalriata | Link to this comment | 12-27-17 7:52 PM
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Lovecraftian millenials encourage the Old Ones to share at their workplaces.


Posted by: fake accent | Link to this comment | 12-27-17 7:59 PM
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43: Yay! Sometimes it's me bringing them up but I'm not sure if it was for you.


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 12-27-17 8:08 PM
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On the topic of the post, it reminded me of dsquared's I shit on the progressives of this planet.

Your gardens, people. Tend them. But not really gardens, because gardens are horrible. Speaking of which, where's Jesus McQueen been?


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 12-27-17 8:16 PM
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I'll bite, ogged. What's so bad about gardens? I still have a flower (an annual, no less!) blooming in the snow. It makes me happy.


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 12-27-17 8:30 PM
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Also, I do in fact spend considerable effort trying to raise my productivity. The point of this is not to do more in the same time but do the same in less time and go home early.


Posted by: Mossy Character | Link to this comment | 12-27-17 8:48 PM
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45: Looking back it was both Clew and you, in response to my desire to read more "fantasy accounting" books. And Minivet linked to a great Amazon sale that got me the first five books, so thank you all. The very, very detailed overlay of magic and gods onto capitalism is catnip for me.

(At the other place you asked for DSA fiction readings and I was thinking that these might be appropriate, although I assume you've already ruled them out. If I had to choose, I'd either pick the one about gentrification or the one where globalization, off-shore finance, and tourism are leading to foreign ownership of a more traditional economy.)


Posted by: dalriata | Link to this comment | 12-27-17 8:56 PM
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49.2: I haven't ruled them out at all and think they could work well. I'm trying not to be overly despotic even though the reading group was my idea and the first book my choice. It turns out the people who show up to plan which Marx to read next (and yet haven't read Piketty and thought it was hardcore I had with friends!) are not also people who feel super comfortable discussing literature and so they're worried that having to read novels will get overwhelming. But for now I get to cover a novel every other month and we'll play it by ear.


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 12-27-17 8:59 PM
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So, like, I have to figure out whether it's more about getting people to think through socialism through the lens of a novel or just getting people who are already socialists to read some damn fiction for a change.


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 12-27-17 9:03 PM
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I went to a few DSA reading group meetings and it amuses me that someone who's comfortable discussing, say, Silvia Federici would be intimidated by discussing literature. I suppose those are different skills, though.


Posted by: dalriata | Link to this comment | 12-27-17 9:10 PM
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That does seem to be the case for some people who aren't me, but between my participating in one reading group and having been in the Habermas class with several regulars plus just generally being myself, I'm winning some of them over. My librarian tinder date from long ago also seems to be joining DSA, so perhaps my general recruiting skills are better than I'd realized.


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 12-27-17 9:17 PM
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I'd suggest The Princess Casamassima but it would probably get you accused of trolling.


Posted by: fake accent | Link to this comment | 12-27-17 9:18 PM
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That is a good choice. You could pair with The Bostonians to really confuse/piss people off. Honestly the thought of a DSA book club meeting makes me sympathetic to the Southern rake character in The Bostonians.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 12-27-17 9:36 PM
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Jesus, Halford! You already know I don't have any friends; I might as well have comrades.


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 12-27-17 9:37 PM
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That's what Zinoviev said and look what happened to him.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 12-27-17 9:42 PM
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If I can mold them to my will for a while and then let them kill me quickly after the show trials, I don't really see a downside.


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 12-27-17 9:44 PM
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After Henry James, do a double feature of Conrad's The Secret Agent and Under Western Eyes.


Posted by: fake accent | Link to this comment | 12-27-17 9:46 PM
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(Have I confessed that I'm head of the Conduct Committee and indeed get to write our conduct policies myself? And I'll probably have to be one of the people who handles serious complaints of harassment rather than someone who gets to mediate lower-level grievances even though it turns out I'm really good at that. This is all a lot of fun in a lot of weird ways. Also I'm an exotic minority because I'm old and a parent.)


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 12-27-17 9:55 PM
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Sounds like you have a good answer for when someone asks, "Aside from the book club, Madam Chairwoman, how was the DSA?"


Posted by: fake accent | Link to this comment | 12-27-17 11:25 PM
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|| Yesterday and today I drove home from SW Oregon, and used the Google maps app to get the turns right and track the time. Quite a bit of the drive was in a snowstorm, and I noticed that the route on my phone would go from the usual blue to orange or even red if the road surface was particularly slick. (Red was basically black ice, and we had a white knuckle 25 miles of it east of Portland last night.) This was uncannily accurate in Oregon and Washington, less so in Idaho, and sort of ok in Montana. That is, as conditions changed from one mile to the next, the color on the screen would change. Driving in towns, the thing distinguished particularly bad blocks.

Here's my question: how on earth is this even remotely possible?

|>


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 12-28-17 2:59 AM
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You adjusted your speed based on the conditions, and so had the drivers preceding you, all the while transmitting that info back to google. The variability in the quality of the information is related to the number of people using the app in the area.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 12-28-17 3:49 AM
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And, Waze, which Google owns, lets users report icy roads, and the goog might be rolling that info into Maps.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 12-28-17 3:56 AM
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Do they really still read a lot of Marx? I find that vaguely depressing.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 12-28-17 4:09 AM
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65: It's a very particular fetish but a deep one for some people. Luckily we don't have many fundamentalists.


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 12-28-17 5:32 AM
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63 is right. Waze is one of the legitimate achievements of crowdsourcing. If only it didn't make my phone so hot.

I think we had a group that was slowly working through Capital. I wouldn't mind doing that--Marx as an economist is fascinating, and knowing exactly what he said should make so much conversation since him more intelligible. It's irritating that so many people have such strong opinions of him either way without knowing what he actually said.


Posted by: dalriata | Link to this comment | 12-28-17 6:57 AM
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Entire industries have spun up around the fact that what your company really wants is a better team (without paying a premium for it), but they can't have that - so people try and sell you on the trappings of other (presumptively better) teams.

It was borne in on me a couple of decades ago that the people who run business methodology/motivation courses/days would, if that particular parasitic industry hadn't been invented, be living out of a suitcase in cheap hotels and performing lacklustre comedy in end of pier shows during the summer, and in winter they would take bit parts in pantomime, or whatever the equivalent is over there.

The point being that their net contribution to the public good as fifth division entertainers would be higher than it is as business parasites, but their rewards would be much less. Which is another example of which capitalism doesn't work the way they tell you it does.


Posted by: chris y | Link to this comment | 12-28-17 7:08 AM
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But then a narrow winding road would have orange at every curve and city streets orange at every stop sign.

It seems way too specific and way too comprehensive for driver reports.


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 12-28-17 8:17 AM
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Waze is arguably the single technology developed in my lifetime that has most changed my life for the better.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 12-28-17 8:19 AM
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69.1: They do tend to show red/orange at traffic lights and other crowded intersections.

Not sure what resolution they are showing.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 12-28-17 8:21 AM
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It seems way too specific and way too comprehensive for driver reports.

Presumably its not just using reports of current drivers reports, but modeled with data from every previous report. So they know about what happened other times it has been slushy, and factored that in.

I'm a bit concerned that Google owns Waze. It used to be that having multiple competitors in a market was considered one of the benefits of capitalism.

Google Maps is actually on my shit list right now, having recently directed our car through Massachusetts over icy-ass back roads instead of guiding us to take major roads and highways.


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 12-28-17 8:38 AM
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Since I rarely go.outside of a circle with a three mile radius, I don't see much advantage.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 12-28-17 8:52 AM
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Waze has fucked up a lot of neighborhood streets during commute hours around here because it sends drivers to freeway alternatives, which then become saturated with cars because they're not meant to be freeway alternatives. Some cities are trying to work out agreements with Waze so people can do things like get out of driveways and go to local stores during the commute hours again.


Posted by: fake accent | Link to this comment | 12-28-17 10:49 AM
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Aren't traffic apps processing the GPS data from phones, whether people are using the app or not? I assume smoothing out stop signs and normal red lights - as opposed to long back ups - is just a matter of some math.


Posted by: fake accent | Link to this comment | 12-28-17 10:53 AM
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My street petitioned for, and got, a sign forbidding left turns onto our street at rush hour.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 12-28-17 10:54 AM
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73: This is a real problem with it. I suspect Waze is teaching more people that the residential street I live on serves as part of a shortcut around a long stoplight--but only if you drive at reckless speeds and run stop signs. It's irritating. But people did that before Waze, too. I don't mind the traffic itself, just the lack of safe and courteous driving.


Posted by: dalriata | Link to this comment | 12-28-17 10:55 AM
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73 - I am so unsympathetic with those concerns. You live in a city, your streets are now being used to alleviate congestion within the city. Cities change and evolve and so do traffic patterns. Your housing price probably benefits from all kinds of ludicrous NIMBY zoning benefits anyway, at least in California. Suck it up and let traffic patterns in the city evolve for everyone's benefit, if you want to avoid cars completely on your street (while forcing congestion elsewhere) too bad or move off of the grid. You don't have the right to have a traffic-free suburban idyll (in which you're free to use your own car) while forcing the costs on everyone else.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 12-28-17 11:16 AM
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77 is just wrong because the drivers are moving at speeds too fast for the street. My street is too narrow for two-way traffic at 25 mph yet we had people moving much faster. So many people lost their mirrors and there were several accidents with greater damage. Pedestrians have gotten hit near me at least three times since fall.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 12-28-17 11:23 AM
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That's a separate, and much more reasonable, concern.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 12-28-17 11:25 AM
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The mixture of speeding, unfamiliar streets, and looking at your phone works not at all. The neighbors just call the cops until the write tickets. I assume people put that on Waze because the traffic gets slower.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 12-28-17 11:26 AM
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What if there were a law limiting drivers to a certain maximum speed, and some sort of officer in place to detect and penalize instances of this speed being exceeded?


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 12-28-17 11:26 AM
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But seriously, since we already have the phenomenon of cops hiding in speed traps, maybe relocate them to places where speeding is actually unusual and dangerous.


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 12-28-17 11:32 AM
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It's not easy to hide a speed trap on a six block street with a house every forty feet.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 12-28-17 11:37 AM
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76 The difference probably being that the people who used to do that had local knowledge.


Posted by: Barry Freed | Link to this comment | 12-28-17 11:38 AM
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84: I guess, but they were still speeding blindly around corners. They'd even do it despite my road being riddled with potholes--I rued the day they actually resurfaced it.

The street Moby refers to is similar to mine--on paper it looks like a good short-cut, if you drive like mad. It's in an area where the major roads are either overloaded or indirect (actually, the same road), and his looks like a straight shot--except it's very narrow and ascends and descends a hill. Because it's Pittsburgh.

Anyway, drivers are, generally and as a class, entitled shitheads who should just calm down and listen to a podcast or something. Or take public transit.


Posted by: dalriata | Link to this comment | 12-28-17 11:44 AM
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People driving to San Ramon and Livermore are speeding through Fremont streets to get around a freeway section. People driving to Santa Cruz are speeding through Los Gatos. But sure they all live in "a city" or "the city" and the relationship between apps and the uptick in speeding and congestion (once the road hits saturation) is purely separate and coincidental.


Posted by: fake accent | Link to this comment | 12-28-17 11:57 AM
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If the bay area in particular were run more like a single city and less like a ridiculous accumulation of NIMBY suburbs (even the city of SF is included in this), the benefits for the country (and region) as a whole would be almost incalculable. That absolutely includes traffic patterns and freeway congestion. Cry me a river, Fremont.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 12-28-17 12:04 PM
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I mean, I think the planning and zoning around here is pretty fucked up and probably Waze and other traffic data will eventually lead to better traffic control, but that doesn't make what's going on now less of a mess.


Posted by: fake accent | Link to this comment | 12-28-17 12:05 PM
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I'd be more sympathetic if you singled out Los Gatos instead of Fremont. Also, I'm pretty sure the people driving through Fremont are wealthier and more obsessed with their idyllic, traffic controlled NIMBYhoods than Fremont, which is not a rich suburb as Bay Area suburbs go.


Posted by: fake accent | Link to this comment | 12-28-17 12:09 PM
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True enough, and I actually kinda like Fremont, but per Zillow the median home price there is $990,100 and the median rent for a two bedroom house is $3,000, so homeowners on residential freeway-cutoff streets are probably not exactly the poor and downtrodden either. The bigger point is that I'm not super sympathetic to clogging up cities as a whole by forcing people onto freeways just because homeowners don't want cars on their own particular mostly residential (but public) streets.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 12-28-17 12:17 PM
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Lots of side streets here have berms or speed bumps every fifty yards or so; it's basically impossible to speed, unless you're a Duke of Hazzard.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 12-28-17 12:22 PM
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The downtrodden got freeways rammed through their neighborhoods years ago.

I sometimes work in Fremont just off one of the alternate street routes to a freeway section and that area is mostly office park or commercial, so it's not a problem that cars go through there, and those roads have high-ish speed limits for city streets.

I think southern California has street designs that mix fast throughways with smaller residential streets that a lot of the Bay Area lacks. I was down in Long Beach a few days ago and was reminded that as similar as the south Bay is to southern California with freeways and sprawl, it's still pretty different.


Posted by: fake accent | Link to this comment | 12-28-17 12:32 PM
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I'm sure more than a few parents will be crying rivers when their kids get hit by Waze using assholes trying to shave 5 minutes off of their daily commute.


Posted by: Barry Freed | Link to this comment | 12-28-17 12:33 PM
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"Humps," not "berms," apparently.

"Humps not berms" is going on my coat of arms.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 12-28-17 12:34 PM
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Wasn't Waze directing people onto routes where there were wildfires raging because there was no traffic there?


Posted by: Barry Freed | Link to this comment | 12-28-17 12:35 PM
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93 -- they are probably equally likely to be hit by their own parents backing out of the driveway, into the street that the parents drive on (and allow traffic on) but don't want anyone else to drive on. These are not fields or empty rural lanes with children playing stickball, they are (by any reasonable definition of city) city streets. Speeding is a different thing and can be regulated, either by cops or by bumps/humps/berms.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 12-28-17 12:40 PM
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When I was a kid, they put bumps along a couple streets that paralleled a busier street. Residents complained about that too (maybe not the same residents concerned with speeding) but it was definitely better for everyone.

As I understand it, so many people use Waze here it overwhelms enforcement, so bumps or other things built into the road are likely to be the solution. But also you can apparently change the classification of some roads in Waze that change their weighting in the algorithm. So even if people might not be deterred by a speed limit sign, if Waze calculates that it's a slower street, it won't send people there.


Posted by: fake accent | Link to this comment | 12-28-17 12:49 PM
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But also you can apparently change the classification of some roads in Waze that change their weighting in the algorithm

Waze revenue opportunity!


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 12-28-17 12:57 PM
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The problem with Waze is fucks using it are looking at their phones and the you're of people trying to save 2 minutes in a 15 minute trip. You go down my street like that coming up to the crest of the hill and somebody is coming the other way, that's an accident. Not a fatal one, if you aren't speeding.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 12-28-17 2:45 PM
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To answer 61 authoritatively: Google anonymously samples locations from (most) Android devices every now and then. If you have an Android phone it's one of the things that you probably blindly clicked "I Agree" to when you set it up. That data goes into the meat grinder that generates the block-by-block traffic estimates, which will totally notice when other drivers have gotten slower.


Posted by: Nathan Williams | Link to this comment | 12-28-17 9:28 PM
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Do they know when it's me in the car versus me in the bus?


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 12-28-17 9:30 PM
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Back when I still lived in Pgh, Google Maps would regularly send cars down steep cobblestoned streets because those were the 'shortest' routes. I hope they've corrected that.


Posted by: Ponder Stibbons | Link to this comment | 12-28-17 10:42 PM
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Cobblestones nothing, in Pittsburgh it would send you down streets that are literally staircases with street signs.


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 12-28-17 10:46 PM
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Pussy.


Posted by: Jason Bourne | Link to this comment | 12-28-17 10:56 PM
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ISTR earlier this year the argument that, if people from somewhere else are cycling through your street on their way to work, it is acceptable to protest by throwing fire bombs at them


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 12-29-17 2:52 AM
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The steps now have a small ramp so you can wheel your bike down or up.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 12-29-17 7:01 AM
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Pussy.


Posted by: Jason Bourne | Link to this comment | 12-29-17 7:24 AM
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I live on a street that is a primary commuting artery so I'm all for rerouting traffic off of it and on to side streets.


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 12-29-17 7:35 AM
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I live on one of 5 million cul-de-sacs off a central road that is curved to fit in as many cul-de-sacs as possible, so there are no options anyway!


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 12-29-17 7:40 AM
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Currently city planners frown upon cul-de-sacs. Or so I'm told.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 12-29-17 10:30 AM
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Surely it should be culs-de-sacs? The internet isn't agreeing with me though. Like there's just the the one Ideal Sac, with many possible culs? Or one Ideal Cul?


Posted by: Mossy Character | Link to this comment | 12-29-17 10:54 AM
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Large sections of the internet are already devoted to the search for the one ideal cul.
Yet still it seems that more research is needed


Posted by: Nworb | Link to this comment | 12-29-17 11:14 AM
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