Re: School shootings

1

I thought this was good and practical, four laws that would help, via a former commenter, at the other place.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 02-15-18 8:48 AM
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Evil as the NRA and its works are, that still feels complicit in the ongoing project of defining terrorism down. Should its leaders and main funders be arrested and tried? If not, then what is the meaning?


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 02-15-18 9:03 AM
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2: Trolling.


Posted by: peep | Link to this comment | 02-15-18 9:11 AM
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I found the idea of stochastic terrorism pretty convincing. They're stoking fears and mental illnesses.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 02-15-18 9:12 AM
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3: OK.


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 02-15-18 9:15 AM
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I totally support stricter gun control laws, but I wonder if there aren't cultural problems that ought to be addressed too. I was just reading about the gun laws in the New England states. Massachusetts has some of the strictest (4th?) in the nation, and our rates of gun violence are quite low. Vermont, NH, and Maine are pretty lax...Vermont especially, but it's hardly a hotbed of gun violence.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 02-15-18 9:27 AM
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7

Speaking of trolling -- https://www.thoughtsandprayersthegame.com/


Posted by: peep | Link to this comment | 02-15-18 9:47 AM
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I thought this was good and practical

What does "practical" mean in this sentence? All those laws have been proposed (repeatedly) and shot down (repeatedly) by the gun lobby.


Posted by: urple | Link to this comment | 02-15-18 10:06 AM
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8: practical in terms of being informed as to what is the effective legislation to aim for, I suppose.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 02-15-18 10:25 AM
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9. Seconded. It should be common knowledge that "nothing to be done, second amendment" is wrong.

I would add draconian gun owner liability insurance as a practical step, which would affect the stock of guns in the US-- having a huge collection of firearms whether as an individual or a gun show type should have high costs associated with it. I don't know much about practical proposals to do this. One description


Posted by: lw | Link to this comment | 02-15-18 10:32 AM
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I like permits-to-purchase (and own!) because background checks are basically a large chunk of the work needed to issue a permit, without actually keeping a record of that work afterwards (right now as I understand the LEAs involved are required by law to discard records of checks after completion).


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 02-15-18 10:40 AM
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Also on the question of whether or not they count as terrorists: once the Russian government is funding you, you're either a terrorist or a dumb puppet. Or both!


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 02-15-18 11:00 AM
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It's lucky that student evaluations aren't scantron anymore.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 02-15-18 11:01 AM
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13: His defense is that he plagiarized it!


Posted by: peep | Link to this comment | 02-15-18 11:24 AM
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Booth didn't write "Sic semper tyrannis", but he still got in trouble.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 02-15-18 11:29 AM
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15: Yes, but he didn't get in trouble for merely repeating that phrase.


Posted by: peep | Link to this comment | 02-15-18 11:36 AM
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Advocating states' rights is always difficult.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 02-15-18 11:37 AM
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18

I thought this made some interesting points about school shootings. https://eand.co/why-were-underestimating-american-collapse-be04d9e55235
You might have a cultural problem if you have a school shooting most of the days of the year.


Posted by: roger the cabin boy | Link to this comment | 02-15-18 12:09 PM
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If you have an industry with pervasive advertising based on the premises that violence can solve social, sexual, and political problems and that purchasing its products will let you be better at violence that people who train for it as a profession, you might have a cultural problem.


Posted by: Opinionated Jeff Foxworthy, LSW | Link to this comment | 02-15-18 12:14 PM
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20

How come the first place I see it mentioned that the shooter was a member of a white supremacist group is The Cut?


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 02-15-18 12:23 PM
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20: Because that's the first place you looked at, I imagine. That news is everywhere - Daily Beast, Think Progress, ABC News, NPR. Originally coming from the Anti-Defamation League, I guess.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 02-15-18 12:51 PM
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It wasn't at the Washington Post or the Atlantic.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 02-15-18 12:54 PM
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23

Meanwhile, Remington is going bankrupt because people are no longer afraid the government is going to come take all their guns. It was a nice grift while it lasted, I guess.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 02-15-18 1:09 PM
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My own hobby horse is reminding people that America's overall murder rate is really high for a developed country. Lots of mass shootings and individual hand-crafted artisan shootings.


Posted by: Cyrus | Link to this comment | 02-15-18 1:19 PM
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22: Guess that means one should look first at other news sources, if one wants breaking news, or news that's a bit out of the ordinary.

This is a topic I'd like to raise at another time.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 02-15-18 1:19 PM
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26

How about next Tuesday?


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 02-15-18 1:23 PM
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Tuesday, let's see: will we still be having the snow and ice situation then? Probably over by then, so okay.


Posted by: parsimon | Link to this comment | 02-15-18 1:25 PM
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28

The post runs runs this


might have been associated with a Florida-based white supremacist group. But agents were still trying to determine the extent of his involvement with the group, if any, according to a law enforcement official who asked not to be identified discussing an ongoing investigation.

and then mentions the ADL report with "can't confirm."


Posted by: lw | Link to this comment | 02-15-18 1:28 PM
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28: I did see where the SPLC was cautioning that the White Supremacist leader in question has had a penchant for attention-seeking beyond the actual facts at times.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 02-15-18 2:14 PM
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Meanwhile, Remington is going bankrupt because people are no longer afraid the government is going to come take all their guns. It was a nice grift while it lasted, I guess.

The NRA seems to be preparing for that, now that it's a Republican administration, by abandoning anything gun-related or rights-related in their message and just turning into The Blaze.


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 02-15-18 2:19 PM
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31

There's no reason for them to go broke. It's not like everything suddenly became safe from the government. If they weren't so fixated on their white supremacy, they could probably have steady growth by selling guns to not-white people threatened by Trump and Trump supporters.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 02-15-18 2:25 PM
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32

31: And the #MeToo movement is a great opportunity to sell guns to women.


Posted by: peep | Link to this comment | 02-15-18 2:42 PM
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33

Has there been any news about how he got the gun?


Posted by: lw | Link to this comment | 02-15-18 2:53 PM
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34

NYT says he bought it legally.


Posted by: Kreskin | Link to this comment | 02-15-18 2:58 PM
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I could have looked there, thanks. Maybe reading too closely, but I read legal purchase by someone whose identity is not yet known, maybe Cruz. "Precisely how Mr. Cruz came to possess the gun is not clear. But the authorities said the AR-15 rifle that Mr. Cruz used in the attack was purchased legally. "


Posted by: lw | Link to this comment | 02-15-18 3:10 PM
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36

I don't know why "how did he get the gun" is a question that always gets asked. Why would anyone think it wasn't purchased legally? What would stand in the way of this guy, or any guy without a felony on his record, buying an AR-15? I guess as a high schooler maybe he couldn't afford it.


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 02-15-18 3:15 PM
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37

If an intermediary sold it to him, like the one in 28, then they share some responsibility and definitely knew him. You're right that there's no particular reason to expect that.

Possibly noteworthy is that thanks to NRA blocks against sane recordkeeping, working out who bought the thing is going to take some time.


Posted by: lw | Link to this comment | 02-15-18 3:22 PM
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36.last: Maybe they figure spree killers with limited incomes know where the good prices are.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 02-15-18 4:04 PM
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||

Quick advice? My department pooled $500 for our secretary who lost everything. Initially I said I'd use the money to get her a Target gift certificate. Is a $500 target card unhelpful? Does cash seem too charity-like and not gift-like? Should I split it between Target and a grocery store? I'm worried about hidden fees on a visa gift card. What's best?

|>


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 02-15-18 6:14 PM
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Two words: Bit Coin.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 02-15-18 6:16 PM
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41

Cash - screw politesse, she needs max value and flexibility.


Posted by: dairy queen | Link to this comment | 02-15-18 6:17 PM
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42

More seriously, cash does seem too charity-like and a Target card says "we're your friends helping you in a way not too far removed from a house warming gift." A grocery card says, "We're worried you won't have enough food to eat" or "We want you to get drunk," depending on whether or not they sell cheap gin in grocery stores in your state.

Anyway, I think your initial instinct was good.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 02-15-18 6:19 PM
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43

Agree w/42, unless you think that charity-like is fine, in which case give cash.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 02-15-18 6:33 PM
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44

It sounds like it's actually charity, and she's probably smart enough to notice this, so why insult her intelligence?

There's nothing wrong with pooling resources to take care of a community member in need.


Posted by: Benquo | Link to this comment | 02-15-18 6:37 PM
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45

Yeah I'm like wayyyyy politesse friendly but come on!


Posted by: dairy queen | Link to this comment | 02-15-18 6:43 PM
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46

Given that it's for someone who lost everything, what's wrong with being charity-like?

A gift certificate is a relatively thoughtless gift as gifts go (although, personally, I've asked for them after one too many pairs of socks, or books that weren't up my alley). But this isn't a gift for the sake of a holiday where it's socially required, or part of a romantic ritual, this is for someone who lost everything. Cash is an easier and more efficient way to help than a new sweater or a gift certificate to their favorite restaurant.


Posted by: Cyrus | Link to this comment | 02-15-18 6:44 PM
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47

Nobody setting up a new household isn't going to drop $500 at Target.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 02-15-18 6:53 PM
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48

Cash is respectful. It says "we know you know best what you need and where to get it". If that's true (and I'm assuming from your description that it is), then cash is the right thing.


Posted by: Chet Murthy | Link to this comment | 02-15-18 6:56 PM
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49

Here at Target. They are assuring me that the target visa gift cards function just like cash, and I can just cover the initial surcharge. So maybe that's best.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 02-15-18 6:58 PM
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50

I always thought that offering cash implied an unequal relationship, regardless of whether it said you trust them or not.

If you do use cash, you have to get larger denomination bills. That much money in singles and fives looks too much like you went stripping to raise the money.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 02-15-18 6:59 PM
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49: Get some Tide Pods. I'm hearing good things.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 02-15-18 7:01 PM
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I sort of feel 50 too. Also she's already our department secretary, so there's an active status differential - not that anyone's rude but I don't want to make her feel like the object of pity?


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 02-15-18 7:04 PM
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Omg there's a $500 daily cap on gift cards at target and I have $550 to spend. I'm going to have to stop somewhere else for this >:(


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 02-15-18 7:05 PM
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54

$500 gift card, $50 in bottles of cheap gin.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 02-15-18 7:06 PM
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55

Nothing says "I care" like a $50 Edible Arrangement.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 02-15-18 7:16 PM
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One time, I was volunteering at the food bank. Most of the fruit was either pretty close to spoiling or discarded by Edible Arrangements. They're picky.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 02-15-18 7:20 PM
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57

Whereas gin will keep indefinitely.


Posted by: Mossy Character | Link to this comment | 02-15-18 7:23 PM
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58

Unless you have tonic and lime.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 02-15-18 7:24 PM
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59

Or vermouth.


Posted by: Mossy Character | Link to this comment | 02-15-18 7:26 PM
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60

I only have the vermouth that turns bourbon or rye in a Manhattan.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 02-15-18 7:29 PM
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61

Turning Bourbon is actually much less fun than it sounds like.


Posted by: Opinionated 18th Century Spain | Link to this comment | 02-15-18 7:32 PM
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62

Deep cut.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 02-15-18 7:38 PM
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63

You should buy her like a pool table or something.


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 02-15-18 7:42 PM
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64

I am v sympathetic to concerns re power differential & you know this woman & social context BUT personally would take the risk of treating her as a social equal, sitting down together in private & explaining where the $$$ came from & that was handing over cash to maximize her value & autonomy. She may prefer to pick up a minimal kitchen équipe at the goodwill & buy better quality replacement clothes online than she can pick up at target.


Posted by: dairy queen | Link to this comment | 02-15-18 7:44 PM
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65

We should send this in to Dear Prudence, but also change the details to preserve anonymity and also ask if it is O.K. to steal a dog to keep her company if we promise to only steal from somebody who is abusing the dog.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 02-15-18 7:48 PM
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66

She can use the visa gift cards at goodwill!


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 02-15-18 7:49 PM
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67

Anyway, I'm all for helping people but I have very mixed feelings about open and honest communication.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 02-15-18 7:50 PM
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She can use cash anywhere! Even if she flees to Mexico!


Posted by: Mossy Character | Link to this comment | 02-15-18 7:51 PM
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69

Gold sovereigns work even in the most isolated villages of central Europe.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 02-15-18 7:54 PM
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70

What's happening in Earthsea, btw?


Posted by: Mossy Character | Link to this comment | 02-15-18 7:56 PM
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I haven't started the third book. I liked the second better than the first because I'm a feminist and because it wasn't entirely 3rd person narration.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 02-15-18 7:59 PM
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72

Bad news on those fronts.


Posted by: Mossy Character | Link to this comment | 02-15-18 8:04 PM
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73

I thought the end was really clever, sort of like "Gift of the Magi" except with "unspeakable evils from beyond time" instead of a "watch chain" and "holding off an earth quake" instead of "selling hair".


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 02-15-18 8:13 PM
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I'm hoping that'll make sense if I re-read the book.


Posted by: Mossy Character | Link to this comment | 02-15-18 8:15 PM
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75

I didn't want to do any spoilers.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 02-15-18 8:17 PM
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76

You're nothing if not considerate.


Posted by: Mossy Character | Link to this comment | 02-15-18 8:23 PM
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77

Well, I'd never trap a wizard in a labyrinth without bringing him some water.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 02-15-18 8:23 PM
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78

What if the wizard was a turtle?


Posted by: Mossy Character | Link to this comment | 02-15-18 8:26 PM
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I'm pretty sure turtles need water too, but I'm not a botanist.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 02-15-18 8:47 PM
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I remember that on the beaches of Hilton Head they marked sea turtle tests with stakes and you were subject to some huge fine if you pissed there while there was a much smaller fine if you pissed on the beach in other places and no fine at all if you pissed in the ocean as long as you were in deep enough water.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 02-15-18 8:52 PM
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On topic:

Is it just me or does the shooter's head look too small in a I-can't-believe-it's-not-microcephaly kind of way.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 02-15-18 9:00 PM
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65: See also Jenny Crusie's _Fast Women_.


Posted by: clew | Link to this comment | 02-15-18 11:59 PM
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I'm not supposed to see fast women.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 02-16-18 6:37 AM
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It's immoral to watch fast women coming towards you. Hence the term "blue movie".


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 02-16-18 7:29 AM
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85

Now explain "red light district".


Posted by: Eggplant | Link to this comment | 02-16-18 8:18 AM
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86

That's something else, but "red shift" refers to how you are safe looking if her dress is red.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 02-16-18 8:21 AM
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"Red light district" refers to the dangerous attractiveness of such an area, by using the metaphor of an object with high gravity. A white light on the surface of such an object would appear red. (Gravitational shift or Einstein shift.)


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 02-16-18 8:42 AM
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"red shift" refers to how you are safe looking if her dress is red.

Ah yes red, the color noted for not inflaming the passions.


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 02-16-18 8:48 AM
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It's O.K. to inflame passions, as long as you are moving away at an appreciable fraction of the speed of light.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 02-16-18 8:52 AM
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90

And the concept of the Roche limit should remind us that if we get too close to an extremely attractive person, we are likely to be torn apart.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 02-16-18 9:02 AM
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I like my women like I like my distant galaxies, emitting radiation and accelerating away from me.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 02-16-18 10:22 AM
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92

I like my black holes the way I like my women: with no hair.


Posted by: Mossy Character | Link to this comment | 02-16-18 10:34 AM
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93

I told someone the "cold, pretentious, and in glasses" joke, and they laughed so quickly that it was clear they didn't get it. Like, a quick happy laugh right as I was still delivering it. Come on! This is a joke to process!


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 02-16-18 11:04 AM
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94

I don't get iced coffee at all.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 02-16-18 11:07 AM
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95

I like my women like I like my extrasolar planetary systems: in ever increasing numbers and exhibiting perceptible wobble.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 02-16-18 11:45 AM
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96

I like 'em just like stars. Gaseous and combustible.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 02-16-18 12:38 PM
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97

So as this is the top thread with over 40 comments on it, I'll ask here - anyone seen the news about Mueller's indictments yet? 13 Russians who work/worked in the troll farms. It's not Trump, Pence, Ryan, or McConnell, but it's not nothing, and in some ways it's actually better than someone on the Trump campaign.


Posted by: Cyrus | Link to this comment | 02-16-18 12:57 PM
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94: It's February!


Posted by: Mooseking | Link to this comment | 02-16-18 12:58 PM
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97: I hadn't seen that. I'm still trying to guess how much money Trump is paying women to deny having slept with him and whether he is being blackmailed by anybody beyond the women he slept with.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 02-16-18 1:01 PM
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100

You'd think getting someone to deny having slept with Trump would be pretty cheap.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 02-16-18 1:15 PM
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Anybody who would deny sleeping with Trump for cheap wouldn't sleep with him.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 02-16-18 1:16 PM
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102

Anyway, I think the greatest hypocrisy in modern American is the juxtaposition within the Republican Party of people introducing pure poison into the political discourse as a means to achieve power and of people who have been loudly touting the notion that traditional values and ideas are essential for society to function.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 02-16-18 1:30 PM
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The whole president-Pee Tape issue is a sideshow in the greater travesty, but sometimes it is the illustrative example that matters most.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 02-16-18 1:43 PM
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104

97.


Individuals involved in the conspiracy traveled to and around the United States, visiting at least eight states, court papers show, and worked with an unidentified American. That person advised them to focus their efforts on what they viewed as "purple" election battleground states, including Colorado, Virginia and Florida, the indictment said.


Posted by: lw | Link to this comment | 02-16-18 1:51 PM
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104: It's all kind of odd. These are activities which would be legal if performed by U.S. citizens, right? And there's no reason to think that Russians would be better at it than Americans -- in fact, you would think it would be the opposite. And, I would guess it wouldn't have been hard to find U.S. citizen Trumpkins eager to do this kind of work. Am I missing something?


Posted by: peep | Link to this comment | 02-16-18 3:10 PM
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105. From our side: Foreigners cannot donate to US campaigns. Legal paid ads are associated either with a campaign or a PAC.

From theirs: the point wasn't necessarily to actually install DJT, but to weaken social structures here. There's a long history of the Soviets covertly supporting violent extremists in the US, just to keep the pot stirring.

Possibly the indictment is just what can be proven today-- recall the hacked DNC server.


Posted by: lw | Link to this comment | 02-16-18 3:20 PM
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And there's no reason to think that Russians would be better at it than Americans

It's like you don't even remember who wrote Protocols. It's their national genius, divisive lies for short-term goals leading long-term tragedy.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 02-16-18 3:47 PM
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Lawfare on the Russian indictments:

The indictment doesn't shed light on why the Internet Research Agency might have chosen to meddle in the 2016 election in 2014--long before either Clinton or Trump announced their intent to run. But notably, the dates in the indictment coincide with the Ukrainian Maidan revolution of early 2014. Amid unrest against Viktor Yanukovych, the Russian-aligned politician who was president of Ukraine at the time, Russian officials accused the United States of covertly supporting Ukrainian protesters and seeking to undermine the Kremlin's influence in the region. So a reasonable person might wonder, reading the indictment, whether the beginning of the operation was a retaliation for perceived U.S. meddling in Ukraine.


Posted by: Mossy Character | Link to this comment | 02-17-18 10:41 AM
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