Re: Guest Post - Scooters (non-Libby)

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Re tupperware, let me recommend Costco's Snapware. I put lunches with a certain amount of liquid in them (not soup, but enough to splash), stick it in my backpack where it sometimes turns onto its side in transit, and it has never once leaked over years.


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 04-16-18 8:01 AM
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Since writing this post I have found more people complaining about scooters on sidewalks, even a twitter feed dedicated to this. So I might have to reconsider the orientation of my heart here. (Or it might be moot because scooters seem to become thin on the ground a few days after each new rollout, suggesting they have not quite cracked the theft thing yet.)


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 04-16-18 8:04 AM
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In SF, I'm rapidly learning to dislike the scooters. The sidewalk-blockage I can live with, even though I find it offensive in the bullet-point-3 sense.

But it also seems like scooter-renters are poorly socialized and tend to assume they have right-of-way on sidewalks. I ended up in a minor shouting incident this weekend; scooter-dude yelled at me for making him step off his conveyance by not yielding a one-human-width sidewalk space, I pointed out his legal lane 18 inches over, the usual.

My suspicion is that we'll start seeing vandalism. If so-inclined folks learn how easy it is to get lithium batteries hot enough to burn, that could make a marginal cost difference for the untethered flavor. I'm not sure where the equilibrium is.


Posted by: Grumbles | Link to this comment | 04-16-18 8:12 AM
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If you were biking you presumably wouldn't be carrying coffee... and I find leftovers can normally survive bike transit OK if you don't deliberately hurl them around, as long as they aren't meringues or something. The sweat thing means changing at work but it's not that much more to carry.
And you can carry a lot on a bike if you get a rack with panniers. Apparently mine are rated to carry a total of 66lb though I would be cycling pretty slowly by that point.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 04-16-18 8:12 AM
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There are solutions to all the issues you mention, such as electric cargo bike. $1600 for a decent one I'm looking at (rad cycle)


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 04-16-18 8:13 AM
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My suspicion is that we'll start seeing vandalism. If so-inclined folks learn how easy it is to get lithium batteries hot enough to burn, that could make a marginal cost difference for the untethered flavor.

This, like the fears of people fooling self-driving cars into crashing themselves, seems to rest on an unwarrantedly negative view of human emotion. It is really easy to get petrol hot enough to burn. And yet people leave cars parked unattended on the street overnight without so-inclined folks setting them on fire, which makes me think that there may not be that many so-inclined folks.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 04-16-18 8:15 AM
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Vandalism has already started, but I suspect will end up a fad.


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 04-16-18 8:26 AM
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4: I mean, it's moot because I'm not going to bike 30 miles on two lane highway with cars that are very, very unfamiliar with biker safety.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 04-16-18 8:32 AM
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Ouch. OK, fair enough then.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 04-16-18 8:40 AM
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I feel like the electric scooters here are just more dangerous for everyone because you don't hear them coming.


Posted by: Mossy Character | Link to this comment | 04-16-18 8:40 AM
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The scooters on the sidewalk are a pain, especially coming just after the bike lanes just got put in and I started to relax about silent death from behind. The skateboarders who ride in the traffic lane of the street are worse to watch, because I always feel like I'm about to see somebody die.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 04-16-18 8:43 AM
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Why can't we just have escalator sidewalks everywhere, like Heinlein said we would.


Posted by: Mossy Character | Link to this comment | 04-16-18 8:45 AM
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My favorite was the guy who had to jump off his board to avoid running into the back of a dump truck that was stopped at a red light. He then reached under the truck, whose driver almost certainly had no way of seeing him, to grab the board.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 04-16-18 8:46 AM
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7: I stand corrected. I'd forgotten how much some people hate cyclists, to the point of regarding throwing firebombs at them as a legitimate protest.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 04-16-18 8:47 AM
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8: Then, how are they ever going to learn?


Posted by: peep | Link to this comment | 04-16-18 8:48 AM
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Thirty miles on a bike, probably over flat ground, will only take like two hours.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 04-16-18 8:49 AM
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The benefit of having insane people riding motor scooters everywhere is that the cyclists are usually emboldened to ride on the street and be annoying there, leaving the sidewalks mostly walking-friendly.


Posted by: Mossy Character | Link to this comment | 04-16-18 8:50 AM
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I somehow don't think the vandals are automobile partisans.


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 04-16-18 8:50 AM
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If they're just people who hate young people, can't they just destroy social security like a normal oldster?


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 04-16-18 8:52 AM
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18: Anti-electrification activists?


Posted by: peep | Link to this comment | 04-16-18 8:54 AM
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A lot of people don't know this, but we're actually big advocates of sea transport.


Posted by: Opinionated Vandals | Link to this comment | 04-16-18 8:54 AM
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You can ride on the sidewalk if we can have dancing in the street.


Posted by: Opinionated Martha and the Vandellas | Link to this comment | 04-16-18 8:56 AM
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21: Is that why you hate pumps?


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 04-16-18 8:59 AM
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They don't hate pumps so much as they love handles.


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 04-16-18 9:04 AM
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No, they love pumps, which is why they take the handles as souvenirs.


Posted by: Ginger Yellow | Link to this comment | 04-16-18 9:04 AM
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23: Because these pumps are made for walking.


Posted by: | Link to this comment | 04-16-18 9:04 AM
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Real men bale their own ships.


Posted by: Opinionated Vandals | Link to this comment | 04-16-18 9:04 AM
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We don't really have many people riding scooters, electric or not, but I'm pleasantly surprised that our local bike share is still going.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 04-16-18 9:07 AM
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They don't hate pumps so much as they love handles

Love handles? They can have mine.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 04-16-18 9:11 AM
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We can't like, there's some truth to the stereotype. Real men don't always pump with their own handles. But it's hands-on, is the point.


Posted by: Opinionated Vandals | Link to this comment | 04-16-18 9:15 AM
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"Am I being an asshole for mostly using sidewalks?"
Yes.


Posted by: metasarah | Link to this comment | 04-16-18 9:22 AM
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31: Finally an unequivocal answer.


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 04-16-18 9:29 AM
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I don't really mind the people who bike on the sidewalk so long as they don't go to fast and get off to walk the bike when the sidewalk gets packed.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 04-16-18 9:36 AM
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to s/b too.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 04-16-18 9:40 AM
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33: I would argue that "packed" is way past the get-off-and-walk threshold.

I was originally going to write exactly what metasarah did in 31 but besides being pwned I also changed my mind on the way. The real assholes are whoever approves a policy like this without sufficient public education making it clear where scooters are supposed to scoot.

I didn't even like scooters on the sidewalk when they were just human powered; things that go much different speeds from one another belong in different lanes.

I'm trying to think of a way to make moaning about gaggles of tourists riding Boris Bikes on the pavement relevant to the thread but I can't really so I'm just going to bitch about it because fuck those people.


Posted by: Swope FM | Link to this comment | 04-16-18 9:53 AM
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LimeBike does in fact print "use bike lanes where possible" in big letters on the shaft with other instructions.


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 04-16-18 9:55 AM
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I heard that getting tattoos on the shaft can lead to very painful, non-ending erections.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 04-16-18 9:56 AM
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You probably meant the shaft of the bike. Never mind.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 04-16-18 9:58 AM
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As primarily a biker, I find the new scooters annoying, but I have to admit that sharing the road with them is no worse than other bikes. If I had to put it in words I'd just say it's a stupid affectation. I can't imagine why someone would want to use a vehicle like that and be unable to take a bike, other than laziness or finding it fun to ride an electric scooter. (To avoid sweating in nice clothes? Maybe at the margins, but IMO while biking in the city there are very few circumstances where I'd get sweaty on a bike but not a scooter.)

As for carrying heavy shit while biking, sometimes I surprise myself. Between two saddlebags and a canvas shopping bag with shoulder straps, I can carry more on a bike than I'd feel comfortable carrying on a bus. Obviously, neither one approaches how much I could carry in the trunk of a car or whatever.

Haven't been doing that for a couple weeks now, though. I have a flat tire and I still haven't got around to getting it fixed. I have a new tube waiting to be put in, but I think I also need a new tire, and the store I went to didn't have one in my size. Ugh. I've been taking a mix of Bikeshare bikes and the bus depending on the weather and how much of a hurry I'm in. Really plan to get my tire fixed tomorrow, though, one way or another.


Posted by: Cyrus | Link to this comment | 04-16-18 10:00 AM
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There's a guy I knew who would take three kids to day care using a bike.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 04-16-18 10:04 AM
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There's another guy I see around town who rides a bike with a trailer. The trailer has one of those Rubbermaid storage things anchored to it. I guess he keeps his stuff dry that way. I have no idea how much weight is in the trailer, but it's clearly about 20 gallons in capacity.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 04-16-18 10:06 AM
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I can't imagine why someone would want to use a vehicle like that and be unable to take a bike, other than laziness or finding it fun to ride an electric scooter. (To avoid sweating in nice clothes? Maybe at the margins, but IMO while biking in the city there are very few circumstances where I'd get sweaty on a bike but not a scooter.)

If you're not a bike rider, you're not going to see a bike and decide to hop on it to get where you're going faster. You're either a bike rider, or you're not a bike rider. But these scooters look like something anyone can do.


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 04-16-18 10:06 AM
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Recently was out that way and immediately discovered a regional difference in transportation modalities when I had to avoid a skateboarder in the terminal.

The scooters look like they'd be fun, but they take up too much room, and most of the ones I saw being used were on the sidewalks, meaning I'd have to get out of the way. I wouldn't risk them in traffic there, and they seem like they'd be mostly useless on the hills. Not sure how much extra oomph the motor gives you.


Posted by: dalriata | Link to this comment | 04-16-18 10:12 AM
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As primarily a biker, I find the new scooters annoying, but I have to admit that sharing the road with them is no worse than other bikes.

This surprises me a bit b/c they look like they're generally going considerably slower than bike traffic. But yeah, what Cryptic ned sed is probably true. My mother never learned to ride a bike confidently but she'd probably still get on one of these things (which would not be good for anybody).

There's a guy I knew who would take three kids to day care using a bike.

My boss and her partner schlepp their kids halfway across London to school on one of those electric-boosted cargo bikes, which I always find admirable and nuts at the same time.


Posted by: Swope FM | Link to this comment | 04-16-18 10:15 AM
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40: Yeah, I know someone who takes their kids to school that way. I figure at that point I'd get a car. I like biking but I have my limits.


Posted by: Cyrus | Link to this comment | 04-16-18 10:16 AM
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From an SF perspective - STAY OFF THE DAMN SIDEWALK WITH MOTORIZED TRANSPORT# OF ANY KIND AND *ALSO* BICYCLES - THEY BELONG IN THE STREET. The sidewalk needs to be safe for older people and small children, full stop.
If you don't feel safe riding on a bike or scooter in the road, get off that road and onto another one, or get off your transport and walk or take the bus.## Riding a motorized scooter or a bike on the sidewalk is immensely rude and unsafe. And I absolutely do not care if there is no one else on the sidewalk when you start, all it takes is one 82 year old man to step out of a doorway and get hit, or for god's sake even startled. Why should pedestrians have to keep their eyes out for motorized scooters or bikes when they are on the damn sidewalk???

All of the above opinions are SF-specific, although I strongly suspect they are applicable in Oakland as well.

I was an enthusiastic adopter of the electric share bikes (Jump) in SF until they were bought by Uber (although this is a far less horrendous business for them to be in), but it's all fine for me because post move I intend to get my own electric bike and let me tell you they are FABULOUS. Fan-fucking-tastic. We could be jettisoning the car soon! Woohoooooo!!!

#Exception for motorized wheelchairs but even then the people piloting them need to be considerate, take extra special care and always cede to the elderly and children.

##Special mention to the tourist couple I encountered on the 10 a couple of months ago who were both in non-motorized wheelchairs and got off the bus about halfway up the hill and then proceeded to head UPHILL, now that is upper body strength.


Posted by: dairy queen | Link to this comment | 04-16-18 10:22 AM
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STAY OFF THE DAMN SIDEWALK WITH MOTORIZED TRANSPORT# OF ANY KIND AND *ALSO* BICYCLES - THEY BELONG IN THE STREET.

This is a good start but I'm afraid people on the internet shouting "STAY OFF OF THE DAMN ROAD WITH BICYCLES - THEY BELONG SOMEWHERE ELSE BECAUSE YOU ARE SLOWING ME DOWN" are still far more numerous.


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 04-16-18 10:29 AM
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There's a guy near me who rides his electric wheel chair down the street in traffic lane. He has a large Israeli flag on a pole to make his visible.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 04-16-18 10:35 AM
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Or because that's just how he rolls.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 04-16-18 10:42 AM
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48: I used to see him do that on Wightman. Which is weird, because Wightman has unusually great sidewalks.


Posted by: dalriata | Link to this comment | 04-16-18 10:51 AM
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AIPMHB the Rocs sometimes drive (motor) scooters around stacked high with propane cylinders. Like 6 or 8.


Posted by: Mossy Character | Link to this comment | 04-16-18 10:52 AM
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I support any and all substitutes for car travel unreservedly.


Posted by: torque | Link to this comment | 04-16-18 11:05 AM
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I hear elephants shit everywhere and break nearby trees.


Posted by: Mossy Character | Link to this comment | 04-16-18 11:08 AM
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I wouldn't risk them in traffic there, and they seem like they'd be mostly useless on the hills. Not sure how much extra oomph the motor gives you.

LimeBike did in fact get me up substantial hills. Not substantial-for-SF though.

This surprises me a bit b/c they look like they're generally going considerably slower than bike traffic.

They can get as fast as a slightly slow bike IMX. Another argument to stay off sidewalks!


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 04-16-18 11:14 AM
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This surprises me a bit b/c they look like they're generally going considerably slower than bike traffic.

I think I remember one or two going faster than me. Not passing me, but our routes converged and I thought I'd have to pass them and I was unable or didn't need to. Maybe it was a private scooter or just a crazy guy. I'll try to pay more attention and see if I can actually spot a trend about who's faster than whom.

But these scooters look like something anyone can do.

If they wear a helmet. I haven't looked into it too closely but 10 minutes of Googling indicates that you're supposed to. Once someone is carrying a helmet around with them, the kind of vehicle they use it on seems like more of a deliberate choice. (If they aren't wearing a helmet, then... less of an affectation, more of a Darwin Award candidate? I've been dogmatic about helmet use every since my accident last year.)

I realize I shouldn't actually assume people are lazy based on tiny details like this, I was just trying to figure out what bugs me about them.

I agree with 47, and also want to point out that at least here in DC it can be pretty complicated trying to figure out where a biker "should" be. In most of the district it's legal to bike on the sidewalk even if it's rude or inconvenient for pedestrians. On my daily commute there's one particular block where I bike on the sidewalk even though it's illegal in that area, but I'm pretty sure it's actually safer than the street would be.


Posted by: Cyrus | Link to this comment | 04-16-18 11:15 AM
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My comment was explicitly SF-specific. The bike infrastructure is far from perfect here,* but I suspect it is streets better than the vast majority of places in the US. I've biked down Market during the morning commute with powered scooter users sharing the bike lanes, wouldn't be my personal choice but if you are going to do it, then use the street.

Nicest moment during recent bike commute on Market - the bus driver who kept his window open so he could let bike riders know he saw them. Thank you, Mr. Muni Driver.

I am also widely enthusiastic about all non-car forms of transit but those include pedestrians and the dedicated pedestrian space needs to be used in acknowledgment of the most vulnerable pedestrians.

And its implementation was famously massively delayed by CEQA litigation! https://www.rmmenvirolaw.com/2017/05/use-it-or-lose-it-ceqas-bicycle-transportation-exemptions-and-legislative-efforts-to-preserve-them/


Posted by: dairy queen | Link to this comment | 04-16-18 11:39 AM
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47. SO #47. These scooter-riders (and skateboarders, and bikers) on the sidewalks. Karma is for them to all get hit by goddam right-turning "I didn't see you" drivers. Goddamn.

I was on the Embarcadero (in SF) once, sitting watching walkers go by, and I see a biker going -fast-. I mean, -fast-. There's a dog walking towards him; they're closing really fast. Dog doesn't know what to do, dog tries to dodge, goes wrong way, gets hit. Biker doesn't even STOP.

There's a lotta old folks walking around in SF. This is a maximally good thing. I cringe to think of when one of these entitled asshole riders hits an old person on the sidewalk, b/c yaknow "they shoulda gotten out of the way".

Oh and BTW I reported this to the City, who told me that they can't do anything about it, b/c that stretch of sidewalk is owned/operated by the "South Beach Community Association" or some such (I forget). Shit. Shit. I see old people using walkers all the time all over the city. This really, really pisses me off. Not to mention a small child who decides to go off at 90 degrees from their parent ... for three feet. Or (of course) me, who stops and turns around b/c I forgot something.

If you're using a transport device (even a skateboard) stay off the sidewalk, please.


Posted by: Chetan Murthy | Link to this comment | 04-16-18 11:41 AM
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||

Besides the Clifford hush-up for Trump and the other similar hush-up for Elliot Broidy recently disclosed, Michael Cohen had a third client he refused to reveal. The judge just now ordered disclosure: it is Sean Hannity.

|>


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 04-16-18 11:58 AM
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Oh, FFS.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 04-16-18 12:01 PM
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Laughing out loud at the Hannity reveal. Oh man, that's delicious.


Posted by: Megan | Link to this comment | 04-16-18 12:13 PM
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Do they say who Hannity impregnated?


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 04-16-18 12:13 PM
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Colmes?


Posted by: fake accent | Link to this comment | 04-16-18 1:14 PM
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58 Jesus, what are they snorting in the writers' room these days?


Posted by: Barry Freed | Link to this comment | 04-16-18 1:21 PM
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I don't care if people ride bikes on the sidewalk, so long as they do so in cities where I do not live and will never ever visit.

I used to get annoyed at cyclists on Mass Avenue from the Islamic Center to the Cathedral area but, actually, no more annoyed than I would get if someone drove their car under 10 mph up that hill. And if they said 'this is as fast as my car will go,' I might have suggested an alternative route.


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 04-16-18 1:28 PM
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Sidewalk bike riding is perfectly legal here but annoying, for me partly as a pedestrian but mostly because I have several times come way too close to killing one darting in front of my office garage driveway at top speed. IIRC I complained about this once here and was roundly chastized because bikes on sidewalks are necessary to get people liking bikes more, or something.

I haven't yet seen the leave them everywhere electronic scooters, but apparently they are in the part of the area that's almost annoying enough to be compared to San Francisco, ie Santa Monica. I guess if they work out OK then OK?


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 04-16-18 1:37 PM
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So, the consensus is that cyclists can go wherever they want as long as they're not anywhere near where any of us are walking or driving.


Posted by: peep | Link to this comment | 04-16-18 1:57 PM
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Yes. Also, cars can go wherever they want so long as I'm not cycling or walking, and pedestrians can go where they'd like unless I'm driving or cycling. I'm sure some talented traffic engineer can figure out how to make this all work.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 04-16-18 2:08 PM
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My boyfriend likes to shout "It's not a sideRIDE" at people riding on the sidewalk.

One time, I took the curb cut closest to my own front door. In the twenty feet between, got shouted at by a jogger with headphones in, for riding on the sidewalk. He was gone by the time I stopped and didn't hear me as I whimpered, 'but I live here.'


Posted by: Megan | Link to this comment | 04-16-18 2:37 PM
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They recently legalized biking on sidewalks here, in part because there was some probably where biking on the bike path was technically illegal. But biking on the sidewalk is still illegal in the high pedestrian-traffic areas, so now we have lots of funny stencils of a cartoon man walking their bike while holding a skateboard in the other hand.


Posted by: Unfoggetarian: "Pause endlessly, then go in" (9) | Link to this comment | 04-16-18 3:26 PM
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Living here has really brought out my inner bike hater. You may all kill me now.


Posted by: Mister Smearcase | Link to this comment | 04-16-18 3:57 PM
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If you've got a bike, I've got a car door and a reckless disregard for caution while opening it.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 04-16-18 4:17 PM
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70: I'm with you. I want bike lanes built into new roads but without them, the cyclists drive me crazy. What really annoys me is when cyclists stay on their bikes but don't follow traffic rules - because they want to be pedestrians on wheels.

Bikes in Davis, CA are fine because the whole "city" is set up for them.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 04-16-18 4:26 PM
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I thought we were supposed to have jet packs by now.


Posted by: lumpkin | Link to this comment | 04-16-18 6:12 PM
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I thought those scooters went at 10-15 mph. That's well within the normal range of bicycle speeds.

I also commute mostly by bicycle and generally don't need to carry a tonne of stuff, but when I'm hauling 40lb of cat food home, a couple of the giant touring Ortlieb panniers are enough. I think offering people the option to not have to drive for a large portion of their trips does a lot, as it lowers the value of owning a car by a lot. It really doesn't make financial sense to own a car if you use it only 2-3 times a month.

I also bike to work in business casual clothing, and yes I sweat, but usually dry out within 10 minutes in the air-conditioned office. The hottest days during the Santa Ana winds (I'm in coastal SoCal) are awful, but most of the time it's fine. I don't like changing in public bathrooms so I prefer this option to biking in athletic clothing and changing.


Posted by: Ponder Stibbons | Link to this comment | 04-16-18 8:22 PM
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70,72. I moved so I could stop driving to commute, because driving at peak times is a shitshow. Well, divorce and new place also, but still.

I suggest you hate your roads and your land use. If you think that some bikes on the road are what's wrong with your lives, then let me reach into some literature about compassion to find a response.


Posted by: lw | Link to this comment | 04-16-18 8:33 PM
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I'm also surprised by the bicycle hate. I don't bike--we have more bike lanes here but not quite enough yet for me to feel safe--but I'm glad other people do. Yes, I don't really like them on sidewalks but I understand it's sometimes a necessity. Every bicyclist on the road is one less car. Driving around them requires care and patience, but that's on me.


Posted by: dalriata | Link to this comment | 04-16-18 8:45 PM
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Dude you drive a 1980s Volvo DL so the bicyclists can go faster than you anyway.

I don't hate bicycling or bicyclists even a little bit, actually I love cycling, but I do kinda hate overzealous biking evangelists, especially online ones. As with so much else my feeling is just shut up.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 04-16-18 9:05 PM
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I don't hate cyclists. I ride a bike, often with my son riding alongside, a fair bit where we live. The more I can transition us from driving to cycling, the better it'll be.

And generally, when I'm _driving_, cyclists can sometimes be a bit unpredictable, and are extremely inconsistent in following the rules. But I can compensate for that by just assuming most people on bikes are total idiots. They aren't, obviously, but enough of them are that making that assumption prevents me from running them over accidentally when they do some stupid shit. So, cyclists very rarely provoke any annoyance in me, as a driver. Any danger caused by cyclists, as a driver, is to them, not me, most of the time.

As a _pedestrian_, however, I want to punch them several times a day. People riding like total arseholes, whether that's riding fast on pavements, running lights, crashing through groups of pedestrians at high speed, etc. Those are daily sights in central London. There's one set of lights I cross at Farringdon where, most days, several pricks on a bike will ride at high speed right through the dense huddle of pedestrians crossing the road.

I think that's the difference i notice from Oxford. In Oxford there were a lot of incompetent cyclists. People who had clearly just left home, had no experience of riding a bike on roads, had poor bike control, and little or no understanding of the rules of the road.* In central London, I notice a lot more arsehole cyclists. Obviously, said arseholes are a minority of people riding bikes there, but there are enough of them.

* Growing up, we had no car, only bikes, and my Dad taught my sister and me how to ride in traffic, signal, understand the Highway Code, etc when we were about 7 or 8. So I was used to riding regularly on busy roads with cars from quite a young age.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 04-16-18 11:34 PM
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There's an intersection just outside my apartment where cars as often as bikes run through the stop sign. It's a three-ish-way intersection, with the fourth direction being a driveway into an apartment complex, which means very little cross-traffic. Most people slow down and at least pretend to look for cross-traffic, but some people clearly aren't even really trying. Just tonight I saw a car coast up to the stop sign, then accelerate through the intersection.

One day last summer, as I was leaving my apartment, I saw a car start through with barely a slow-down until they saw a guy on a skateboard coming out of the apartment complex driveway with the right-of-way - he was clearly there first - and they screeched to a halt. Skateboard guy went by the car and said to the driver, who's window was open: "Stop sign, bro." It seemed like a very Bay Area interaction.


Posted by: fake accent | Link to this comment | 04-16-18 11:49 PM
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80

I really thought that story was headed for a legally-purchased firearm.


Posted by: Mossy Character | Link to this comment | 04-17-18 12:01 AM
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71: Moby, I'm sure you're joking, so I'll just note that in Cambridge, MA, while living there in 2002, a bicyclist was killed by a driver doing just what you wrote: they opened their driver-side car-door without looking, the biker hit the door, veered into the car lane, got hit by a bus. Instant death. I just read that in 2016 a similar thing happened in Cambridge. In SF there's a sign with a running tally of the # of bicyclists injured in accidents. I was 20ft behind a biker who got hit by a driver turning right out of the wrong lane. She flew two lanes across before landing, and there was blood on the ground where her (helmeted) head hit the pavement.

It's true that bikers can be annoying to drivers. Guess what? You're in a multi-ton killing machine. Deal with it. Let me tell you know it will work out, if you don't. Bikers will use full lanes of traffic, and you will go even slower. Even slower. I bike only for recreation, in a park, but going back-and-forth to the park, if I -ever- feel crowded, my reaction is to take -more- space, not less. For the same reason that motorcycles have noisemakers, not "mufflers".

BTW, here in SF there was that case of a biker coming down Castro St who basically barrelled into a pedestrian-filled crosswalk against the light, hit a senior citizen. Who died. Turned out, after the fact, he was trying to beat some Strava best time. Evil motherfucker -- I just read that he was guilty of vehicular manslaughter, which is, I guess, a fitting punishment. I'll settle for it. B/c a bicyclist is also a killing machine, to pedestrians.


Posted by: Chetan Murthy | Link to this comment | 04-17-18 12:10 AM
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Lw - I don't really hate cyclists, and i'd like to see fewer cars on the road. I do, however, think that anyone over the age of 9 should not be allowed to bike on a sidewalk - where Sidewalks actually exist.

Basically, I'm pro pedestrian.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 04-17-18 2:40 AM
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83

People can be assholes, no matter what conveyance they're using. We need self-driving bikes!


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 04-17-18 3:57 AM
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84

Dq, what bike are you buying? As noted in 5 I'm looking to buy one and am considering a Rad power but I don't know anyone with one. More name brand models like Specialized seem too pricey, $2k and up.


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 04-17-18 4:15 AM
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83- Evidence: I was biking to work in a line of several bikes and a car turned left in front of us to enter a garage without considering whether they could clear our lane with the backup to enter the garage and stopped blocking the bike lane. Asshole driver! Biker in front of me slammed on brakes, went over his his handlebars and landed on his head. I stopped to check on him and also prevent people from running over him. A biker coming behind us swerved around and yelled "Don't stop in the bike lane!" Asshole biker!


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 04-17-18 4:20 AM
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71. A friend of mine lost his front teeth due to a "dooring," as they are called. This was also in Cambridge, MA, years ago. Moral: stay out of Cambridge.

There's an education campaign for people to open their car doors with their right hand, which forces them to turn to reach the handle, giving a glimpse of any oncoming bikes, scooters, elephants, or other surprises. I think this idea originated somewhere in E. T. Europe.


Posted by: DaveLMA | Link to this comment | 04-17-18 4:23 AM
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Yeah, I've been doored twice. Both times as a teenager. I didn't go over the door in either instance, but in one of them I smacked my head really hard off the door, and had bruising and a lump for quite a while.

My Dad, who in his younger years was a lot more aggressive than me, once punched a van driver in the face when my Mum got doored.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 04-17-18 4:28 AM
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It's called the Dutch Reach, to make it sound vaguely dirty and thus more memorable.
I can verify from recent experience that while biking in Cambridge is dicey, biking in Boston is fucking atrocious. Literally just cross the river and people are bigger assholes. I had someone honk and yell at me for biking in a lane that literally had a picture of a bike painted on the ground (and I don't think it was from a crime scene). Somehow when I pointed this out he did not concede my righteousness but only became angrier.


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 04-17-18 4:37 AM
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The two Literallies are a special treat for Neb.


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 04-17-18 4:39 AM
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I like the bike lanes for the same reason the local drivers complain about them: They turn roads with two lanes into single lane roads. As near as I can tell, it doesn't actually slow anybody down because there's always a one-lane choke point at a bridge or key intersection something. I think that also makes the bike lane close to useless since the lane just ends right at the choke point where biking looks most dangerous. However, it sure makes it easier for me to cross the street on foot.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 04-17-18 5:30 AM
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Personally, I still think I could do my commute in an electric golf cart if there was a way to not die after being crushed by a heavier vehicle.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 04-17-18 5:47 AM
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If I could survive being crushed I would find a more exciting way to commute. Compressed air cannon maybe.


Posted by: Eggplant | Link to this comment | 04-17-18 5:51 AM
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That would ruin your lunch.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 04-17-18 5:53 AM
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68: Pretty much every time I'm annoyed by a cyclist on the sidewalk I start to shout the same thing and then suppress the behaviour at the last minute when I remember that it's called 'the pavement' here and the arsehole in question either won't know what I mean or will dismiss me as an asshole American. I've tried to think of a similarly satisfying pithy thing to shout incorporating 'pavement' but no luck so far.

That Dutch Reach thing is a good idea that I've never heard of and I agree has a pleasingly smutty-sounding name. Okay, this makes up for Moby ruining distance correlation for me in the other thread.


Posted by: Swope FM | Link to this comment | 04-17-18 5:56 AM
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It's a perfectly fine statistical tool. It's just not going to substitute for knowing statistics.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 04-17-18 6:00 AM
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I'm sure you can make statistical methods sound dirty as well.


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 04-17-18 6:17 AM
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If you sit on your hand before doing repeated subgroup analyses, it's like somebody else is p hacking.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 04-17-18 6:20 AM
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97 is a quote from American Rho.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 04-17-18 6:25 AM
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99

The story of four teenagers desperately trying to achieve a significant result.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 04-17-18 6:25 AM
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But I can compensate for that by just assuming most people on bikes the road are total idiots.

FTFY.


Posted by: chris y | Link to this comment | 04-17-18 6:37 AM
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The crazy people also ride their motor-scooters on the sidewalks, but only to get to parking spaces. Still fucking annoying though.


Posted by: Mossy Character | Link to this comment | 04-17-18 6:49 AM
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What's annoying is that the IRS's pay your taxes on-line page is down. This is the only day I need it.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 04-17-18 6:57 AM
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You know something I never experienced living in a third-world kleptocracy? A revenue service website that didn't work. (It was Flash and ugly AF, but it worked.)


Posted by: Mossy Character | Link to this comment | 04-17-18 7:03 AM
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The fucking pay by credit card works. Just the bank transfer option that wouldn't involve paying a huge fee to Chase doesn't work.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 04-17-18 7:05 AM
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In the third-world kleptocracy, not only did I not have to pay Chase (whoever that is) but the tax service actually returned small sums of my money to me in I think three successive years.


Posted by: Mossy Character | Link to this comment | 04-17-18 7:07 AM
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"Chase" is just the name of a really big bank that I was using as a stand-in for all banks.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 04-17-18 7:09 AM
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That was a joke, yanksplainer.


Posted by: Mossy Character | Link to this comment | 04-17-18 7:10 AM
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I'm not getting a refund because I never paid in quarterly taxes on income I got because I learned the penalty is like $10 and fuck Trump.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 04-17-18 7:11 AM
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Bike lanes are mostly useless. What you want is cars on major roads and bikes on parallel roads that don't have many cars because they're inconvenient. Berkeley was great at this, non-major roads just have giant barriers every 5 blocks or so that only bikes and pedestrians can go through. I wish our downtown here had something similar. But even just having a lot of stop signs is enough to keep most cars off the road and make biking more pleasant.


Posted by: Unfoggetarian: "Pause endlessly, then go in" (9) | Link to this comment | 04-17-18 7:13 AM
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Somebody needs to come up with a truly novel sex act to go with the "Dutch Reach" so it won't merely sound dirty, but actually be dirty.

108: We've avoided paying quarterly on federal due to always owing less than 10% of total (easy since most of our income is on W2s). PA, on the other hand, is a penny-pincher; they want quarterly payments if you owe more than ~$240. Meh.


Posted by: dalriata | Link to this comment | 04-17-18 9:05 AM
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"Sidewalks" are for utility poles, fire hydrants, and landscaping
https://abqstumbler.tumblr.com

Roads are for acting out anger
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/four-year-old-shot-head-albuquerque-road-rage-incident-police-n448161

Sensible people simply hide under their bed.


Posted by: Anonymous Troll | Link to this comment | 04-17-18 9:05 AM
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110.1: Any economy-priced handjob.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 04-17-18 9:07 AM
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Unless you bought it for someone else.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 04-17-18 9:08 AM
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But even just having a lot of stop signs is enough to keep most cars off the road and make biking more pleasant.

So you don't have rat runs? Even roads with traffic calming measures seem to get huge amounts of traffic here if the major road is busy.


Posted by: Ginger Yellow | Link to this comment | 04-17-18 9:11 AM
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This thread is not reassuring me about my plans of starting to bike to work this summer, most of which would be through Cambridge or adjacent.


Posted by: Nathan Williams | Link to this comment | 04-17-18 9:14 AM
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Real Cambridge or the fake one in Massachusetts?


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 04-17-18 9:29 AM
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||

I just ratted my horrible boss out to the building manager for parking in a handicapped space. She's gotten busted for it before. She's just too fucking lazy to park in the garage and make the 2-minute walk.

As a bonus, I'm parked in the garage in the space that she has asserted to be hers. (There are 6 reserved for our office, but everyone just takes whatever's open.)

|>


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 04-17-18 9:50 AM
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For maximum righteousness you should occupy that entire space just with your cargo bicycle.


Posted by: Mossy Character | Link to this comment | 04-17-18 9:52 AM
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117:1: Does your boss know?


Posted by: peep | Link to this comment | 04-17-18 9:52 AM
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That's great. I was always nervous to park in handicapped spaces even when I was supposed to (because I was riding with my dad who had the need and a pass).


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 04-17-18 9:52 AM
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Steal some office supplies for home use and go home at 2:30. Stick it to the man.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 04-17-18 10:15 AM
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That wasn't legal advice.


Posted by: Robert Halford | Link to this comment | 04-17-18 10:15 AM
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122: You're not our lawyer, but our communication is still covered by attorney-client privilege. No one is allowed to read it.


Posted by: peep | Link to this comment | 04-17-18 10:17 AM
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Not sure if she knows yet. I didn't say whose car it was, so the building manager took a picture of her license plate, and will match it against a list they have of everyone in the building.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 04-17-18 10:18 AM
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117. I learned recently in thinking about how to communicate with a deadbeat that car boots are about $45.


Posted by: lw | Link to this comment | 04-17-18 10:19 AM
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123: If Horrible Boss raids my computer, I'll demand a taint team.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 04-17-18 10:20 AM
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123: To be on the safe side, I'm sending Halford $10 in the mail.


Posted by: dalriata | Link to this comment | 04-17-18 10:23 AM
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Apropos of nothing, what's the recommended protocol for cleaning off a laptop before returning it to one's employer?


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 04-17-18 10:23 AM
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Remove the hard drive and fry it in a microwave oven.


Posted by: Mossy Character | Link to this comment | 04-17-18 10:25 AM
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And put it back, otherwise you're stealing.


Posted by: Mossy Character | Link to this comment | 04-17-18 10:26 AM
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So is Mossy my lawyer now?


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 04-17-18 10:41 AM
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Once your money gets here.


Posted by: Mossy Character | Link to this comment | 04-17-18 10:49 AM
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I way overpaid estimates taxes this year but if I had invested it I would have lost money, so thanks for parking the cash IRS.
115- if you're going to area where to used to work from where I last remember you living, your route is easy and safe. I moved to working at a place twice as far and about 10 times as dangerous for biking.


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 04-17-18 10:52 AM
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Wow my phone mangled that one.


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 04-17-18 10:52 AM
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re: 114

Yeah, there's loads of tiny streets here in west west west Ealing that are densely traffic'd at key points of the day.* And every single street is parked bumper to bumper (and up on the kerbs) more or less 24 hrs a day. I suspect riding a bike is going to be no more dangerous and there is probably more room, on the bigger roads.

* that said, I could probably work out a reasonable route to the tube that'd keep me out of most of the way of both traffic and rat runs, so I suppose it's do-able.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 04-17-18 11:25 AM
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111: Lord, some of those sidewalk pictures are egregious. There are lots of discontinuous sidewalks in the Florida suburbs where my mother lives, which always annoys me when I visit. But it's another thing to just put a bunch of random-ass obstacles right in the middle of the path on purpose.

In London, pavements are for chuggers, people trying to hand you things you don't want (e.g., the Metro, Scientology pamphlets), tourists standing around tube station entrances trying to figure out their next move, and on Friday evenings, pub crowd overspill.


Posted by: Swope FM | Link to this comment | 04-17-18 11:57 AM
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My favorite local sidewalk. Normal sidewalk to the left for scale.


Posted by: dalriata | Link to this comment | 04-17-18 12:14 PM
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And if you follow that normal sidewalk, which is by all appearances accessible, you run into this corner.


Posted by: dalriata | Link to this comment | 04-17-18 12:15 PM
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That corner "end" of the usable sidewalk is terrible. And there's no identification of the pavement to prevent sight impaired people from getting herded into traffic.


Posted by: Mooseking | Link to this comment | 04-17-18 12:43 PM
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My favorite Pittsburgh sidewalk


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 04-17-18 12:59 PM
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Is that the one that leads to the bridge that used to go over the Parkway?


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 04-17-18 1:05 PM
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And I thought this was bad. I am chastened.


Posted by: Cyrus | Link to this comment | 04-17-18 2:33 PM
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