Re: Open threads

1

One thing we see is that Fort Worth isn't Where the West Begins as advertised, but Weatherford is.

Election Day was a state government holiday in Montana back when I was in state government. I think the schools are out as well.


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 09-21-18 9:07 AM
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And the pull of regionalism is strong even for major cities.

Why is this remotely surprising? I work in an office with people who live within commuting distance of central London, not Edinburgh.

State lines are powerful boundaries in binding nearby places. For many counties, as the maps illustrate, the likelihood of friendship drops off sharply at state borders.

This seems like a much more interesting and less obvious result. I guess it makes sense for public schools etc - I assume catchment areas never cross state lines.

2. Because they don't want to increase turnout all that much?


Posted by: Ginger Yellow | Link to this comment | 09-21-18 9:15 AM
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3

That map does a good job of illustrating New England's weirdly strong ties to Colorado.


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 09-21-18 9:15 AM
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4

I hadn't put it in words, but I totally think of there being a New England-Colorado connection.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 09-21-18 9:19 AM
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Its the snow. A lot of ski bums are migratory.

The maps for Queens County, NY is interesting. Not a lot of connection even as close as New Jersey.


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 09-21-18 9:25 AM
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6

They are both places where I think of people wearing vests a lot.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09-21-18 9:26 AM
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7

2.2 It's wild how well Montana sticks together, and it's not because of school district boundaries. Universities providing in-state tuition discounts are undoubtedly a factor, especially here, but it's a fact that folks here strongly identify with the state in a way that, ime, a lot of Marylanders don't. Not that there aren't plenty of Marylanders who are really excited about their identity, it's just not quite as pervasive. It may not be true that we all know each other in MT, but two degrees of separation is very common between adults. In an area the physical size of Germany.


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 09-21-18 9:37 AM
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8

Travelling so cannot look to carefully at it, but Loving County has at times been the least-populous county in the US (a lot of oil, however) and IIRC a few years back an attempt was made to make it a libertarian-controlled utopia of some sort that attracted outsiders.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 09-21-18 9:44 AM
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9

To be fair, Germany would be a lot bigger if it got its way.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09-21-18 9:44 AM
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Some details here. http://debategate.com/new3dhs/index.php?topic=18863.0 Population is a little over 100 so easy to show up in the statistics. In 1968 it was the furthest west county to go for George Wallace.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 09-21-18 10:00 AM
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11

The maps at the end are really interesting, especially where they specifically go against state lines. Northern Idaho should really be Washington. If you divide Texas, the main dividing line is not between Houston and Dallas, but between San Antonio and the south vs the rest. New Jersey includes Philadelphia. El Paso (but only El Paso) should be in New Mexico.

Why does Nebraska emerge so early as a distinct region that is a single state, after the obvious Texas, Alaska, Hawaii?


Posted by: F | Link to this comment | 09-21-18 10:04 AM
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12

Hmm, apparently it didn't work. ... so not sure. I did drive through it one time.

Also it appears my freaking iPhone "smartly" puts in slanted open and close quotation marks which defeated my attempt at an href. Assume there is some way to force it to use standard ones. This is new behavior.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 09-21-18 10:07 AM
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13

11.2 Rhymes with Horncuskers.


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 09-21-18 10:29 AM
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14

Stormcrow beat me to it, but yeah, Loving County is a particularly oddball outlier in a lot of ways and its results in this map are probably driven primarily by its small population.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 09-21-18 10:32 AM
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11.1 Northern Idaho is in the same time zone as Washington, while the rest of the state is aligned with Salt Lake City (not just with regard to their clocks). The University of Idaho is in Latah County, in the panhandle, and I guess I'm a little surprised at how the connections there are different from eg here or Gallatin County, Montana.

I'll bet the divide between northern and southern Idaho would've been much starker before the mid-1970s, when they rebuilt the part of US 95 that goes down from the Whitebird Summit.


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 09-21-18 10:35 AM
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13 is probably right, but it may also be because nearly the whole state lives in or next to only two counties.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09-21-18 10:36 AM
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9: Germany got a good bit bigger less than 30 years ago, and look how that turned out.


Posted by: Doug | Link to this comment | 09-21-18 10:54 AM
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18

Interesting connections between counties in north-central Pennsylvania and Wyoming, Montana, and the Dakotas. Must be related to fracking. Although there isn't any fracking in Northumberland County, Union County and Snyder County, which still generate blue counties in Bakken territory.

Even the farthest southeast reaches of Michigan are much much more connected to all parts of the UP, hundreds of miles away, than they are to the part of Wisconsin right next to the UP.


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 09-21-18 10:58 AM
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19

The UP is the Siberia of Michigan, right? One would expect gulag connections.


Posted by: Mossy Character | Link to this comment | 09-21-18 11:05 AM
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20

Speaking of universities, holy shit:

The University of Montana saw a 7.6 percent drop in enrollment from last fall to this fall, according to its latest census enrollment report released Friday. UM has seen a 28.5 percent drop in enrollment over the past seven years, and had anticipated a 5 percent drop this fall.


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 09-21-18 11:26 AM
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Is the University of Montana one of those places that was staying afloat by letting in massive numbers of unqualified rich Chinese people? Is this local kids going to community college instead? Both?


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 09-21-18 11:27 AM
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The community college is part of UM, and it's numbers are included. It had a steeper decline that the university itself. International enrollment is down, but that's no where near the whole story.

I was looking to see if Montana State had set another enrollment record, but their stats don't seem to be out yet. MSU is way better at promoting to in-state students, and is pretty different. Gender ratios are among the differences: a large state school with a male majority is quite an anomaly just right now, I think.


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 09-21-18 11:36 AM
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23

But UM is probably going to beat us in football. Again.


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 09-21-18 11:37 AM
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Check out Centre County, PA to get a map of all the other counties containing giant state colleges.

And Pulaski County, MO and Chattahoochee County, GA have friends evenly spread all over the country (giant Army bases).


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 09-21-18 11:56 AM
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That's a similar drop in enrollment to the Evergreen State College in WA. Did you have a major "campus PC" event there?

More seriously, does UM rely heavily on humanities and liberal arts majors? Applicants to those majors have cratered everywhere.


Posted by: F | Link to this comment | 09-21-18 12:34 PM
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And it's the right timeline for that too, as the drop in humanities majors started in 2011.


Posted by: F | Link to this comment | 09-21-18 12:35 PM
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"The most popular majors at University of Montana include: Business, Management, Marketing, and Related Support Services; Social Sciences; Education; Natural Resources and Conservation; and Visual and Performing Arts"

That fits.


Posted by: F | Link to this comment | 09-21-18 12:37 PM
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28

It only now occurred to me that I've incorrectly taken as evidence of having racist tendencies my propensity for mixing up the names black acquaintances. That tendency is only racial. I mix up white people all the time.


Posted by: Eggplant | Link to this comment | 09-21-18 12:53 PM
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29

Men's and women's names though is totes sexism. I rarely remember men's names.


Posted by: Eggplant | Link to this comment | 09-21-18 12:59 PM
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30

Heh, I interpreted "Open Threads" like "Open thread night" instead of actually reading the OP. For reasons. Mods, feel free to delete.


Posted by: Eggplant | Link to this comment | 09-21-18 1:28 PM
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31

a New England-Colorado connection

People in both places can be pretty smug about the greatness of the place where they live. For those in Colorado, it's understandable.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 09-21-18 1:54 PM
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32

25.2 Yes. That's why MSU is trending upward so well.

This too?


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 09-21-18 2:14 PM
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33

30: No, I meant it that way! Ramble here about whatever.

No discussing anything but Colt McCoy for 40 comments.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 09-21-18 2:16 PM
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34

29: Men's names tend toward boring and interchangeable. My neighbors were all Jon or Jeff or Joe and who can keep up with that?


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 09-21-18 2:36 PM
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35

I used to know a systems administrator named "Colt". Boy, that guy could sure administrate a system.


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 09-21-18 2:52 PM
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36

34: The unfortunate running joke at my company is that if you don't remember someone's name, you've got a pretty good shot if you call them Steve, Mike, or Matt.


Posted by: dalriata | Link to this comment | 09-21-18 2:55 PM
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37

This Beto-Cruz debate is not going well.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 09-21-18 4:38 PM
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38

It's stressing me out.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 09-21-18 4:38 PM
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39

Pittsburgh city govt and schools are off Election Day. When AB was a city employee, she'd have basically 2 full weeks of work from Halloween to the end of the year (depending on the calendar).


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 09-21-18 4:44 PM
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40

And 37 is bumming me out.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 09-21-18 4:45 PM
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41

seconding 40. I'm not watching the debate; what's happening?


Posted by: NickS | Link to this comment | 09-21-18 4:50 PM
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42

The twitter reactions I was seeing were better than that.

|| People who listen to public radio this weekend might hear my voice, depending on where you are. I hate journalists, and participating in their enterprise is always a mistake. |>


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 09-21-18 5:09 PM
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43

A "present company excluded" wouldn't hurt.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09-21-18 5:16 PM
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44

Oh, yeah, of course that's the case.

I'm involved in a public spat with a serial fabricator. He's famous enough to persuade media organizations to pay attention; of course they let him say all kinds of demonstrably untrue shit without challenge. They they left out the most important, and interesting, part of the story because (a) it's kind of complicated; (b) it's about a third player and that other player will only cooperate in a specific way; and (c) the famous guy isn't really the star of anything, but especially if you look at what is actually happening.

No journalist reading these words would consider that sort of thing ok.

Editorializing, at the end, journalist says it might end up in litigation. He asked me, when he interviewed me, and I said no way. Who would sue whom and for what? He can't answer, nor are the other (non-lawyer) participants credible on the subject. Still and all, my quote wasn't bad. So if you hear me, I'm right, and most of those other people are wrong.

(Why yes I did have some whiskey this evening. Why do you ask?)


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 09-21-18 5:26 PM
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45

Whiskey sounds good. I only have beer and cake.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09-21-18 5:28 PM
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46

Not simultaneously.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09-21-18 5:30 PM
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47

It's not exactly the media, but did I ever tell you the time that call-in radio forced me to spend a whole summer working hard at lawn care. The local school board tried to skirt some laws by structuring an transaction in such a way as to avoid needing to put a bond out for vote. Somebody sued because they were old and fuck the kids. But the school board lost, because they were breaking a pretty clear law. My dad was the judge.

Anyway, there was a radio show in my town that was mostly for people to call in and tell everybody about a garage sale or some puppies to give away or whatever. People kept calling in about that court case and one of them complained that my dad couldn't know what he was talking about because he couldn't even keep his yard green. Which was apparently my job.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09-21-18 5:42 PM
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48

41: I just thought that Cruz sounded very mainstream and standard Texan, and painted Beto as an outsider and Beto missed some obvious chances to poke holes in what Cruz was saying.

Mostly I was listening while cooking and not watching, so it's possible there was a JFK/Nixon attractiveness factor for Beto for those who watched. The part I did see definitely had Cruz peering unpleasantly down his weirdly snivelly nose. But Cruz, to me, sounded like someone with a lot of practice debating smoothly.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 09-21-18 5:55 PM
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49

32: The rape thing would be my guess.


Posted by: J, Robot | Link to this comment | 09-21-18 5:58 PM
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50

"very mainstream and standard Texan"


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09-21-18 6:03 PM
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49 Which is super frustrating because in the book he says that UM isn't any worse than other places, but it's a convenient place to tell the story. Also because we have a new county attorney, new university admin, and new USDOJ-blessed systems in place.

I think the selection of majors is as big a factor, but each is big enough to do real damage. Damage that ripples through everything. Lose 28% of the students, and you're hitting the bookstore, food vendors, adjunct faculty, marginal classes, all of it.


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 09-21-18 6:12 PM
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52

It's frustrating that the article doesn't say if putting a mattress in the dumpster is legal.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09-21-18 6:21 PM
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53

Anyway, he'll probably be acquitted if he can afford a good lawyer. I wonder if killing somebody while shirtless gives your lawyer more to work with. "If my client were a cold-blooded killer, wouldn't he wear a shift?"


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09-21-18 6:23 PM
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54

As would befit a shifty character?


Posted by: Mossy Character | Link to this comment | 09-21-18 8:57 PM
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55

But Cruz, to me, sounded like someone with a lot of practice debating smoothly.

Well, he is.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 09-21-18 10:07 PM
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56

Is a Downset hut like a Quonset hut?


Posted by: fake accent | Link to this comment | 09-21-18 10:55 PM
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57

3 and 4: My cousins on both sides of the family really like Colorado, and my uncle (who wore L.L. Bean boots and was pretty obviously preppy) settled there. I wonder if it's people who like Vermont mountains, and then they see Colorado mountains and those are much more mountainous mountains, and they love it.

I think I remember reading about a similar phenomenon with birds.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 09-22-18 4:26 AM
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58

How could they fly with the boots on?


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09-22-18 6:03 AM
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59

55: Well, yeah. But there's a difference between being a smarmy GOTCHA debater who makes better, more eloquent points while smirking your face off, and actually being able to smoothly transmit an emotional connection with viewers.

I have heard that Cruz bungled the end of the debate, though, which I haven't seen.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 09-22-18 6:14 AM
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JFK was shot in Texas and Cruz's father was involved. That's the kind of circumstantial coincidence that a skilled debater can make into an emotional connection.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09-22-18 6:20 AM
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I didn't see the debate, but I heard Cruz said the officer who murdered the guy in his own apartment should keep her job. That seems just appalling.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09-22-18 6:21 AM
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62

Until just now, I hadn't really looked at a photo of Ted Cruz since the 2016 election. Does he moisturize his face with canola oil?


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 09-22-18 7:00 AM
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63

Canned soup grease.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09-22-18 7:02 AM
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64

"Cruz" is actually short for "Canned soup ooze".


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 09-22-18 7:18 AM
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65

I was just being perplexed at how western Maryland can be all "solid D" seats, and then pulled up the maps and man that's some impressive gerrymandering. You gotta fight fire with fire, but man I hope we can come to some actually democratic compromise over this bullshit at some point.


Posted by: Unfoggetarian: "Pause endlessly, then go in" (9) | Link to this comment | 09-22-18 11:36 AM
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66

Me, I'm just hoping there's never a way to start a national referenda on should we rocket the Earth into the sun, because as soon as a liberal comes out against it, 45% of the country will vote for it.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09-22-18 11:56 AM
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67

||

I made a pun that is not being sufficiently appreciated where I made it so I relay it here that it might be read and judged worthy.

FB friend writes:

I didn't know A---- had stuffed the piƱata with chocolate candy bars. She didn't know I hung it out in the Mid-East sun a couple hours before the boys' birthday party started. Yeah...

I said:

It's an Oh Henry! story.

||>


Posted by: Tia | Link to this comment | 09-22-18 12:12 PM
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68

I appreciate that. Very good.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09-22-18 12:14 PM
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69

aw, thanks.


Posted by: Tia | Link to this comment | 09-22-18 12:20 PM
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70

Yes, it is good.


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 09-22-18 12:43 PM
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71

I don't get it.


Posted by: Mossy Character | Link to this comment | 09-22-18 12:44 PM
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72

You need to google "iconic American short stories that are kind of preachy" and then "scarcely seen American candy brands."


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09-22-18 12:49 PM
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73

I wonder why Oh Henry! candy bars took off but F. Scott! fortified wine didn't.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09-22-18 12:55 PM
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74

Parochial.


Posted by: Mossy Character | Link to this comment | 09-22-18 12:55 PM
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75

I'd forgotten that Della's hair went down past her knees. Reminds me of that Beatles song.


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 09-22-18 12:56 PM
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76

Fobs don't come cheap.


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 09-22-18 1:16 PM
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77

That's why everybody says you have to watch fobs.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09-22-18 2:07 PM
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78

Mobes: compared with Tia's, that pun was less-than-fobulous.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 09-22-18 2:46 PM
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79

It's harder to follow a theme.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09-22-18 2:49 PM
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80

Any sufficiently advanced O. Henry pun is indistinguishable from Magi.


Posted by: fake accent | Link to this comment | 09-22-18 5:13 PM
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81

80: beautiful


Posted by: alameida | Link to this comment | 09-22-18 9:08 PM
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82

You know how sometimes in old WW2 movies they have a Nazi pretend to be an American, and they try to trip them up by asking them baseball questions? If they ever remake one of those, they should use that pun.

So who are you really working for, Mossy? The Cubans? The Russians? The aliens from outer space? The Russians from outer space?


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 09-23-18 1:39 AM
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83

Anyone that pays me, really.


Posted by: Mossy Character | Link to this comment | 09-23-18 1:42 AM
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84

Also I could totally be tripped up by sports questions about my home country. Don't know a thing.


Posted by: Mossy Character | Link to this comment | 09-23-18 1:43 AM
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85

Somebody drove onto the roof of the grocery store again. That's 2 times in the past 3 years, not counting the person who just drove into it the store without ever getting on top of it.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09-23-18 7:08 AM
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86

Is it an underground grocery store?


Posted by: Heebie | Link to this comment | 09-23-18 7:48 AM
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87

No. Very mainstream.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 09-23-18 7:57 AM
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88

||

what if goatse, but high art?

|>


Posted by: fake accent | Link to this comment | 09-23-18 1:14 PM
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88 I'm trying but I'm just not seeing the goatse in East-west / West-east.


Posted by: Barry Freed | Link to this comment | 09-23-18 2:39 PM
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90

67, 80: Nice work


Posted by: beamish | Link to this comment | 09-23-18 3:17 PM
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91

I know the like economy of the other place is pernicious, but sometimes you really do just want a way to say I appreciate you without taking up more space yourself. That's how I feel about 80!


Posted by: Tia | Link to this comment | 09-23-18 3:24 PM
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92

67 and 80 both earn Unfoggies for Distinguished Achievement in Punnery.


Posted by: peep | Link to this comment | 09-23-18 3:49 PM
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92: Right after I wrote that it occurred to me that the award should be called the Stanley. But I think there may be another award with that name.


Posted by: peep | Link to this comment | 09-23-18 3:58 PM
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91: Aw, I couldn't have come up with it without yours first.


Posted by: fake accent | Link to this comment | 09-23-18 7:18 PM
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95

67 is great


Posted by: Barry Freed | Link to this comment | 09-24-18 12:56 AM
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96

Loved the comments. It was very much helpful for me.


Posted by: Timbangan Digital | Link to this comment | 09-26-18 10:17 PM
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