Re: Leftwing violence

1

Well, on the one hand, protesting in front of Tucker Carlson's house seems like it could be a fun activity for the whole family. On the other hand, I don't understand what it is supposed to accomplish, or how anything positive can come out of it.


Posted by: peep | Link to this comment | 11- 8-18 1:26 PM
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What happens the next day depends a lot on whether the British send in an expeditionary force to support the Whites.


Posted by: Doug | Link to this comment | 11- 8-18 1:28 PM
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I'm unapologetically pro punching Nazis, but I have to draw the line harassing Tucker Carlson's family. His kids already have to deal with being Tucker Carlson's children, for crying out loud. Isn't that punishment enough?


Posted by: (gensym) | Link to this comment | 11- 8-18 1:29 PM
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No, really, see, actually, I think no one should be threatening journalists and media figures, and escalation of right-left conflicts is mutually assured destruction. Earlier today I did have the urge to argue pointlessly with someone about the Jim Acosta video, though. I have contrarian opinions! (I don't think he ... accost...ed... sigh)


Posted by: lurid keyaki | Link to this comment | 11- 8-18 1:33 PM
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1: The (not necessarily correct) theory is that if you make life enough of a living hell for the purveyors of fascism, people will reconsider it as a career choice. This might not affect this Tucker, but it could affect the next Tucker. Better to go into lobbying or finance or whatever.


Posted by: dalriata | Link to this comment | 11- 8-18 1:33 PM
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Pushing ambitious, unscrupulous people into finance doesn't really seem like a win for the left.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 11- 8-18 1:36 PM
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We can wait to harass Tucker Carlson's children until they grow up to be shitheads sui juris.


Posted by: foolishmortal | Link to this comment | 11- 8-18 1:40 PM
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6: That was my editorializing--trying to think where evil people would go otherwise, if being a visible mouthpiece for a right-wing explicitly racist government is too costly. I doubt there would be much substitution that way. Someone who has the sort of brain to be Tucker Carlson probably don't have the sort of brain to be good at finance (but I guess banks need PR people).

Enh, what the hell, I'll double-down on it: a Carlson or Hannity or Limbaugh has much more negative effect on the world than the marginal finance worker.


Posted by: dalriata | Link to this comment | 11- 8-18 1:40 PM
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And to the OP, I think your blockwalking was more effective in "burning shit down" than any bullshit stunts. I have been dithering for two years about changing jobs, and I have my reasons for the indecision/paralysis, but that is one possible response to frustration with how little one can do in the off-hours.

Also, the problem is really that shit is burning down and there aren't enough hands on deck to put the fires out, isn't it? That's how I've been regarding the last two years (and the next two).


Posted by: lurid keyaki | Link to this comment | 11- 8-18 1:53 PM
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9: Well, thanks.

Did you see I told an anecdote involving you and the archives in the careless rape thread?


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 11- 8-18 2:00 PM
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(Also, I think in hindsight, the most effective thing I did was offer extra credit to all students who printed out and showed me their polling location/days/times and indicated the most convenient day and time for them. Students actually told me it made the difference, and I swelled up a little bit and felt smug.)

(Which is not to say that I won't blockwalk my neighborhood again. It needs to be done, it's just demoralizing.)


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 11- 8-18 2:02 PM
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Got a wife and kids in Baltimore, Jack-
I went out for a ride and I never went back.


Posted by: Opinionated Boss | Link to this comment | 11- 8-18 2:05 PM
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9.2 While I generally regard BSD as silly rhetoric on the order of 'that's it, I'm moving to New Zealand' somehow it's feeling a little different in a country where Nazis are (a) marching with torches; (b) shooting people in synagogues; and (c) mailing pipe bombs to Democrats, actors, and journalists.

Is the best response to someone who suggests we BSD to ask if they're planning to start with the Reichstag?

Ted Cruz got a little sympathy bump when people were rude to his family in a restaurant. I'm sure it wasn't enough to make the difference, but I'm also sure that the thing was a small net loss. And it's not like BO'R was behind the thing: just freelancing officious intermeddlers. Who, if asked, would likely say something like "I will speak my truth; I will not be silenced."


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 11- 8-18 2:09 PM
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CharleyCarp, that kind of response is in the class where we police our own side because of fear of how it is taken by the other side. Which I am done with, because they'll go apeshit no matter what (see the altered Acosta video today), so their reaction simply cannot be a consideration.

If you think BSD is wrong for internal reasons, probably some bullshit about being better people, that is fine. But not because of anything "they'll" do with the material.


Posted by: Megan | Link to this comment | 11- 8-18 2:26 PM
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10.2 Yes! God, I've been around here forever.

I agree with everything in 13 but am not certain how it's responding to me.

14: they'll go apeshit no matter what -- completely true, but that's also what makes these hostile actions irrelevant where they're not actively bad. At best, shouting at families at restaurants was worth a try, but has now clearly been shown to have failed as a tactic.

Specifically on the subject of Carlson, Yglesias had a strong reaction and it seemed like (I say coldly, calmly) an interesting data point. People's fury is real, and it's going to take some form: this is as true on the left as on the right these days.


Posted by: lurid keyaki | Link to this comment | 11- 8-18 2:36 PM
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He realized he might be reacting emotionally and gave himself a timeout which means about 5 minutes of not tweeting. But his issue wasn't that he thought breaking Tucker's door was a good idea, it's that Tucker receives about 1000x more sympathy when something is done to him that is about 1/1000 as bad as what Tucker promotes or is done by the people he enables. It's another example of systematic power bias/racism in the media system but you can't point that out because then you CONDONE LEFTWING VIOLENCE!


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 11- 8-18 2:53 PM
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The double standard is totally insane, I agree.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 11- 8-18 3:03 PM
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14 It's NOT about what the other side will do. As you say, they're assholes and will use anything they stumble upon, real or imagined. The thing is, a very substantial number of people aren't actually on a side, and it's enough to be the margin one way or the other in a whole lot of places. What *those* people think of the tactics matters.

The Reichstag problem isn't that it gives Nazi's a reason to do something bad: they're Nazis because they already want to do something bad. It makes non-Nazis go along with the Nazis in doing something bad because they think the opposition is worse.


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 11- 8-18 3:23 PM
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17: yes. for instance Tucker Carlson, an influential television host mocking the bomb sent to George Soros. (The tactics got toned down over the next several days when the plethora of targets became clear, but they were utter fucking assholes when it was just Saros.)

So I agree we should leave the Nazi fuckpig alone but must ramp up assailing him publicly. This is where the fuckhead "centrist" media are their most fuckheaded--guys like Carlson are utterly destroying the media in deep, hard-to-repair ways and yet there are almost no direct criticisms from people like Chuck Todd. If nothing else where is the Front page spirit, you have a competitor who is lying and misleading their viewers; expose them and when them over*!

*OK i am not so naive as to think that works in the short term but I do think relentless unceasing attacks on Fox by other media will be positive in the long run. Instead we get the Jake Tapper defense of them. Sure Fox has the "straight news" loss leaders like Shep Smith but they are a cancerous boil on the body public and need to be treated as such**.

**Of course they can barely bring themselves to do that to fucking Infowars when Trump was paling around with Alex Jones during much of his campaign. (And when HRC pointed it out in a well-researched speech. Trump rejoined with "No, you're the racist!" leading Official Confused Looking Doofus of the White Supremacy Chick Todd to worry that the presidential race was becoming a race to the bottom.)


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 11- 8-18 3:27 PM
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17: yes. for instance Tucker Carlson, an influential television host mocking the bomb sent to George Soros. (The tactics got toned down over the next several days when the plethora of targets became clear, but they were utter fucking assholes when it was just Saros.)

So I agree we should leave the Nazi fuckpig alone but must ramp up assailing him publicly. This is where the fuckhead "centrist" media are their most fuckheaded--guys like Carlson are utterly destroying the media in deep, hard-to-repair ways and yet there are almost no direct criticisms from people like Chuck Todd. If nothing else where is the Front page spirit, you have a competitor who is lying and misleading their viewers; expose them and when them over*!

*OK i am not so naive as to think that works in the short term but I do think relentless unceasing attacks on Fox by other media will be positive in the long run. Instead we get the Jake Tapper defense of them. Sure Fox has the "straight news" loss leaders like Shep Smith but they are a cancerous boil on the body public and need to be treated as such**.

**Of course they can barely bring themselves to do that to fucking Infowars when Trump was paling around with Alex Jones during much of his campaign. (And when HRC pointed it out in a well-researched speech. Trump rejoined with "No, you're the racist!" leading Official Confused Looking Doofus of the White Supremacy Chick Todd to worry that the presidential race was becoming a race to the bottom.)


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 11- 8-18 3:27 PM
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18.1 is right.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 11- 8-18 3:28 PM
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Leave the Nazi fuckpig's family alone and assail him in his job.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 11- 8-18 3:28 PM
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So is 22.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 11- 8-18 3:29 PM
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More on the rotten core of Misogynistic White Supremacy the afflicts the "elites" of this godforsaken lost nation,

Note how much more attention pretty annoying jerkwad* Jim Acosta has gotten versus the routine dismissive insults that April Ryan and Yamiche Alcindor were subject to for far less contentious behavior. Cuntfuckery beyond all measure on our TV screens and in our newspapers every day. But, yes agree that we should leave the family of the Bow-tied Goebbels alone aside from making it obvious to them via normal means that he is in fact heinous and hideous human being who foments violence with lies.

*Not saying he deserves any of what he got but he is a self-righteous arrogant little prick who generally does not ask substantive questions or followups.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 11- 8-18 3:38 PM
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But I don't know; maybe with proper counseling we can work this out.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 11- 8-18 3:42 PM
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Agree with 18. The best means to my goals for America is for Democrats to win elections. We don't need to placate the enemy, but we do need 50.1% of the voters. Actions that make achieving that goal, such as disrupting Republican families in restaurants and at their homes, and burning shit down, are to be avoided.


Posted by: unimaginative | Link to this comment | 11- 8-18 3:44 PM
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I thought one of the lessons of this past election was that we needed more like 55% of the voters. So: yes.


Posted by: lurid keyaki | Link to this comment | 11- 8-18 3:50 PM
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Agree with 18 (and 13, for that matter).


Posted by: Just Plain Jane | Link to this comment | 11- 8-18 4:14 PM
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If you want to threaten someone you threaten them in private.


Posted by: Eggplant | Link to this comment | 11- 8-18 5:00 PM
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On the torchlight parades thing, does anyone know how many actual veterans there are in those groups?


Posted by: Mossy Character | Link to this comment | 11- 8-18 5:16 PM
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I left a comment recently about Kathleen Belew; following some of those links might lead to information... Here is a 2014 editorial on "Veterans and White Supremacy".


Posted by: lurid keyaki | Link to this comment | 11- 8-18 5:30 PM
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"...offer extra credit to all students who printed out and showed me their polling location/days/times..."

This is a great idea. I'm stealing it for our next election.


Posted by: delagar | Link to this comment | 11- 8-18 5:39 PM
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I tried to feel sorry for Tucker Carlson and I kept thinking of Tucker Max. Then I tried to feel sorry for Christine Ford, and it worked.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 11- 8-18 5:47 PM
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Also, I still more blame CNN for turning itself into a free repeater of Trump's message than I feel sorry for what's his name.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 11- 8-18 5:50 PM
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31: Thanks, I was thinking about that.


Posted by: Mossy Character | Link to this comment | 11- 8-18 6:15 PM
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Would it be irresponsible to speculate that Kavanaugh is somehow behind Ginsburg's injury? It would be irresponsible not to.


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 11- 8-18 6:42 PM
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Uh oh now Yggles did one of his semi-routine purge of all past tweets.


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 11- 8-18 6:47 PM
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Its bad strategically, but this is not even about convincing voters. The problem is that its escalation. Escalation will not end well for our side, or for anybody.

Have you noticed how many guns the other side has?


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 11- 8-18 9:48 PM
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38.1 was my point up in 4 too, so we've only got 9,998 repetitions to go before it sinks in fully. What's our timeline on this again?


Posted by: lurid keyaki | Link to this comment | 11- 8-18 10:19 PM
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BSD?


Posted by: Barry Freed | Link to this comment | 11- 8-18 10:29 PM
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I think it's "Burn Shit Down" in context.


Posted by: lurid keyaki | Link to this comment | 11- 8-18 10:33 PM
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I should change my pseud to "lurid kudzu." I have to stop commenting so much.


Posted by: lurid keyaki | Link to this comment | 11- 8-18 10:35 PM
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41 Thanks.

I'm all for not giving these Nazi fucks a moment's peace in public (and leave their families alone) but Charley's substantially correct in his comments above.


Posted by: Barry Freed | Link to this comment | 11- 8-18 10:40 PM
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you guys are suckers if you believe there was violence. There was no violence- they rang his doorbell. there is an allegation that they cracked his door? no pictures though.

racist scumbags deserve to be yelled at. he is being yelled at.

It is going to be real annoying for his family but I don't care.


Posted by: lemmy caution | Link to this comment | 11- 8-18 11:05 PM
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Nah, protest him all you want. Sure they'll whine but they whine all the time anyway.


Posted by: Alex | Link to this comment | 11- 9-18 4:35 AM
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Pushing ambitious, unscrupulous people into finance doesn't really seem like a win for the left.

It is better for a man to tyrannize over his bank account than over his fellow creature.


Posted by: Opinionated John Maynard Keynes | Link to this comment | 11- 9-18 4:37 AM
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Can I just say: Broward County. Why do the votes from there never quite seem to arrive?


Posted by: Charlie W | Link to this comment | 11- 9-18 6:19 AM
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Once is bad luck, twice is coincidence.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 11- 9-18 6:20 AM
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Anyway, maturity happens at different rates in different kids even when they all get to more or less the same place by junior high or so.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 11- 9-18 6:24 AM
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Wrong thread


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 11- 9-18 6:24 AM
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48 Must be the third time because this looks like enemy action.


Posted by: Barry Freed | Link to this comment | 11- 9-18 6:50 AM
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I dunno, I'd consider how Marco Rubio is raging against it on Twitter enemy action. Votes need to be counted. Sometimes it takes a while. Often elections are called before provisional ballots are fully determined, but you can't do that in close ones, as tends to be the case in Florida statewide elections. They're probably still reviewing provisional ballots where you live, too.

The ballot design is worrisome, of course, and I'd like to know why Broward seems so much slower than other counties--more provisional ballots per capita? If so, why?--but given Republican glee (including straight out lies from Rubio) at attacking them, I sympathize with the county elections office.

A debunking of one of the supposed issues. (tl;dr Found "missing" provisional ballot box had already had the ballots removed. When you take the ballots out of a ballot box, it's just a box. You can keep it around for next year, in which case you might not remove the label. You might also use it for storage for the various office supplies elections needs. Doesn't seem weird to me at all.)


Posted by: dalriata | Link to this comment | 11- 9-18 7:01 AM
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The bar is now so low, Trump will be praised for moderation if he gets through the day without saying there were good people on both sides of Kristallnacht.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 11- 9-18 7:02 AM
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what a surprise- the cracked door was completely made up by the racist scumbag who always lies

"One of the protesters knocked firmly on Carlson's front door three times then trotted back down the steps to join the rest of the group in the street. This person did not throw their body against the door, as Carlson has claimed to newspapers. A police report on the incident makes no mention of damage to the Carlsons' front door from the three stiff knocks, contradicting Carlson's claim that the demonstrators had cracked the door."

https://thinkprogress.org/i-was-at-the-protest-outside-tucker-carlsons-house-heres-what-actually-happened-665c2dc0cb67/

Again, don't be suckers


Posted by: lemmy caution | Link to this comment | 11- 9-18 2:29 PM
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If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 11- 9-18 2:55 PM
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I'm not surprised that there are lies in Carson's account. Earlier I thought about saying that I condemned the protesters' actions in exact proportion to the harm they caused and credible threat they post, i.e. very little, but I was confused about how true that was, so I didn't. I'm feeling better about it now.

I agree with the hive mind here that this kind of thing is counterproductive. Right now, I don't think there's anything at all for a private citizen to do that's productive and political. Stockpile poster board for the next "respectable" protest, I guess. A rational person would just do nothing political now but that's frustrating.


Posted by: TCFKACyrus | Link to this comment | 11- 9-18 3:35 PM
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All of the conservative assholes hate to be confronted by protesters in person. It is a super effective tactic especially for people who work for the government who can just quit and make more money.

In Carlson's case, being a racist scumbag is a choice and he can stop anytime he likes.


Posted by: lemmy caution | Link to this comment | 11- 9-18 4:42 PM
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He might need buprenorphine.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 11- 9-18 4:46 PM
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Overseas ballots are valid as long as they were postmarked by Election Day and arrive by the 10th. Why do Rubio and Scott hate the troops?


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 11- 9-18 4:54 PM
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56: I don't know, you could sit down and plan strategy... figure out what your priorities are, find relevant organizations working to achieve those goals, figure out how much time you have, determine whether volunteer hours (including voluntary anxious slacktivism) or financial support are worthwhile, etc. I often feel stymied, but I never feel that there's nothing out there to do, just that I (mostly) don't have the bandwidth and (somewhat) don't know where to start.


Posted by: lurid keyaki | Link to this comment | 11- 9-18 5:35 PM
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OT: Oprah is just leaving those kids on the evil planet?


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 11- 9-18 6:20 PM
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On this particular scumbag (never heard of before) what are US laws on hate speech / incitement to violence? Is there a possibility of lawsuits? If that's at all doable it could make a difference to the Overton window slide.


Posted by: Mossy Character | Link to this comment | 11- 9-18 6:44 PM
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The laws are if you are good at hate speech and own a bow tie, you can get a show on Fox.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 11- 9-18 6:51 PM
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Right now, I don't think there's anything at all for a private citizen to do that's productive and political.

What? There was a demonstration all over the country, what, yesterday, and there will be more as (a) Florida and (b) Whitaker both unfold. You can engage and cheerlead people you know (and if you use social media, people they know that you don't know) all over the country on important issues that are being dealt with right now. You can make a list of advertisers on Carlson's show, send letters to each, and publish them to the internet. You can join one of the organizations dealing with the new asylum rules. I think the possibilities are nearly endless.


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 11- 9-18 7:03 PM
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I'm hoping tomorrow to cancel my cable TV (or rather replace it with the network only version, the digital transition left us with no OTA TV), partly because I don't use it enough for it to be worth it, but partly so that my money isn't going to Fox News. My plan is to use the latter as the main reason as it's harder for them to try to make counteroffers since they don't offer any other packages without Fox News.


Posted by: Unfoggetarian: "Pause endlessly, then go in" (9) | Link to this comment | 11- 9-18 7:17 PM
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I love this video.


Posted by: lurid keyaki | Link to this comment | 11-10-18 4:43 PM
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(It's a 30-second riff on Acosta, the intern, and the mic. I watched with sound off.)


Posted by: lurid keyaki | Link to this comment | 11-10-18 4:47 PM
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That was pretty good.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 11-10-18 5:04 PM
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I think Charley is substantially correct on the optics but lemmy was right to be skeptical and downright contemptuous. These people are lying liars who lie about everything.


Posted by: Barry Freed | Link to this comment | 11-12-18 12:37 AM
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||
Barry: Lean, A Passage to India. What do you think?
|>


Posted by: Mossy Character | Link to this comment | 11-12-18 1:44 AM
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70 Last saw it many many years ago and remember liking it but I mean it's David Lean with Judy Davis in the lead, what more could you want?


Posted by: Barry Freed | Link to this comment | 11-12-18 10:53 AM
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