Re: Yet.

1

Not new, surely? A somewhat older usage, resuscitated. In some dialects, probably never went away.


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 07-17-19 9:56 AM
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Oh, definitely old and disappearing. Jammies' uncle is in his 60s, and the other dad was probably in his 40s.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 07-17-19 9:58 AM
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Languages where "not yet" is a simple negation of the word for "still": French, German, Japanese, probably many more. It's fairly intuitive.


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 07-17-19 9:58 AM
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Yes, I was definitely able to grasp the meaning in both situations.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 07-17-19 10:03 AM
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It's this like "Yeet"? I can't figure out what that means.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 07-17-19 10:05 AM
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5: It's a verb meaning throw.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 07-17-19 10:06 AM
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I want to believe you, but I'm still not using it in an email at work.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 07-17-19 10:13 AM
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6: Lil' Meatball begs to differ.

https://www.bustle.com/articles/103093-what-does-yeet-mean-how-do-you-use-it-heres-the-backstory-on-the-dance


Posted by: peep | Link to this comment | 07-17-19 10:14 AM
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9

Surely it has something to do with Gritty.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 07-17-19 10:21 AM
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How else do you use "yet"?


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 07-17-19 10:36 AM
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Yeah, this is a Pittsburgh (and also Scranton area) thing that I've noticed.

Also "let" instead of "leave". "Let it alone". "Let the door open". Maybe that's just a Scranton area thing.


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 07-17-19 10:46 AM
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10: I think it's what Minivet said, about it being affirmative vs. negative. "She hasn't come down from the hotel yet" or "She hasn't ruined her wristband yet".

It clearly is only applied to women, either way.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 07-17-19 10:50 AM
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"Leave" instead of "let" ("leave us go and..") was part of low-level gangster slang in pre-magazine Mad comics.


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 07-17-19 10:52 AM
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OED:

yeet, v. Obsolete. transitive. To address (a person) by the pronoun ye instead of thou. Cf. ye v., thowt v.
Etymology: Either a variant of ye v. (although this is first attested later), or directly < ye pron. The -t may perhaps show an emphatic extended form, or may be for euphony in inflected forms. Compare the parallel formation thowt v. Compare Middle High German irzen , irezen ( < ir ye pron. + -zen , frequentative suffix), post-classical Latin vosare (c1400; 15th cent. in British glossarial sources; compare quot. 1440 and quot. 1483 at ye v.), vobisare (1432), vossitare, vobissitare (attributed to Erasmus (a1536) by Du Cange).
* 1440 Promptorium Parvulorum (Harl. 221) 537/2 Ȝeetyn, or sey ȝee, voso.

Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 07-17-19 10:56 AM
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14: I beg to differ.


Posted by: Opinionated Lil' Meatball | Link to this comment | 07-17-19 10:57 AM
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I think it's what Minivet said, about it being affirmative vs. negative. "She hasn't come down from the hotel yet" or "She hasn't ruined her wristband yet".

"Yet" is a negative polarity indicator, like "anymore," and it sounds like some dialects also use it affirmatively, again like "anymore." It could even be the same dialects. I don't think I've ever heard it used that way myself.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 07-17-19 10:57 AM
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17

I am confused yet.


Posted by: peep | Link to this comment | 07-17-19 11:00 AM
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18

Quoth the raven, "Yet."


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 07-17-19 11:02 AM
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I actually remember having to figure this out back when I was reading Shakespeare in college. The famous example is "Though this be madness, yet there is a method in't." Which works with the modern sense of "yet" as a contrasting term similar to "but" (but not at all with its current time sense, as in "are we there yet?"), but there are other usages that are more like the one you're getting at.

Are you sure that dad didn't say, "She don't play with hers."? That's how the sentence goes when I play it in my head.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 07-17-19 11:06 AM
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20

It's a good way to other your dialogue for fantasy and historical writings. "Your enemy yet lives!"


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 07-17-19 11:07 AM
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I thought George R.R. Martin would contain actual examples for 20, but it looks like he uses "yet" as a substitute for "but" really often.


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 07-17-19 11:08 AM
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again like "anymore."

Which is totally a Pittsburghism: "Anymore, FPPs come to town without even suggesting a meetup*."

*or maybe you did and I was away


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 07-17-19 11:09 AM
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20: Secret is word order change. Articles avoid.


Posted by: Opinionated Yoda | Link to this comment | 07-17-19 11:12 AM
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24

To beat a horse (e.g., not dead but still bad form), I think the difference is "yet" was for a long time usable in the positive meaning of "still", then it got limited to contrastive or negative uses, whereas "anymore" got its start as a negative formulation only ("isn't... any[ ]more") and some dialects now have it in positive.


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 07-17-19 11:16 AM
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25

A Python I should not advise, --
It needs a doctor for its eyes,
And has the measles yearly.
However, if you feel inclined
To get one (to improve your mind,
And not from fashion merely),
Allow no music near its cage;
And when it flies into a rage
Chastise it, most severely.
I had an Aunt in Yucatan
Who bought a Python from a man
And kept it for a pet.
She died, because she never knew
These simple little rules and few; --
The snake is living yet.


Posted by: Hillaire Belloc | Link to this comment | 07-17-19 11:23 AM
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26

OH SAY DOES THAT STAR-SPANGLED BANNER YET WAVE?


Posted by: OPINIONATED FRANCIS SCOTT KEY | Link to this comment | 07-17-19 12:09 PM
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27

Goodbye, Francis!


Posted by: Star Spangled Banner | Link to this comment | 07-17-19 12:18 PM
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28

Let it be.


Posted by: Lennon–McCartney | Link to this comment | 07-17-19 1:26 PM
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29

I thought that was from Frozen.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 07-17-19 1:27 PM
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30

29: No, it's from Yesterday.


Posted by: peep | Link to this comment | 07-17-19 1:37 PM
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31

It most certainly is.


Posted by: Opinionated Disney House Counsel | Link to this comment | 07-17-19 1:38 PM
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32

I think he got the idea from the Sesame Street song, "Letter B".

When I find I can't remember
what comes after
A and before C
My Mother always whispers
letter B


Posted by: peep | Link to this comment | 07-17-19 1:39 PM
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33

That's just beautiful.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 07-17-19 1:59 PM
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34

32: applause


Posted by: jms | Link to this comment | 07-17-19 2:19 PM
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24 is right. The difference between positive "yet" and positive "anymore" is that both are now colloquial/dialect, but "yet" used to be part of the standard language and is attested much farther back.

The OED has positive "anymore" as "Chiefly Irish English and North American colloquial," and the first attestations are from servants quoted in nineteenth-century dialect dictionaries.

1859 J. R. Bartlett Dict. Americanisms (ed. 2) A servant will say, 'The potatoes is all any more,' i.e. are all gone [now].
1898 Eng. Dial. Dict. I. 63/1 [Northern Ireland] A servant being instructed how to act, will answer 'I will do it any more'.

Positive "yet" is "Now chiefly regional except in as yet," but attestations go back to Old English.


Posted by: lourdes kayak | Link to this comment | 07-17-19 2:41 PM
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36

I first parsed the headline as Yeti and was deeply disappointed.


Posted by: Mossy Character | Link to this comment | 07-17-19 3:51 PM
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37

My dad used to use "yet" where I would use "but." It sounded very old-timey to me.

He also used to come out such quaint, archaic terms as "hooligan." Bunch of kids acting out at the park outside the street? "Damn young hooligans," my dad would say.

And my mother's cosmetics case was her "beauty kit." All of that female folderal being somewhat of a mystery to him. "O John," my mother once said, "your're putting a lot of faith in that kit." (She was actually quite beautiful, btw, but with a mischievous sense of humour...).


Posted by: Just Plain Jane | Link to this comment | 07-17-19 6:56 PM
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38

I would use "yet" instead of "but" where it's a bit of a stretch- "And yet, it's just possible..."


Posted by: chris y | Link to this comment | 07-18-19 2:00 AM
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39

Also "yet more" - "still more".

I thought George R.R. Martin would contain actual examples for 20, but it looks like he uses "yet" as a substitute for "but" really often.

Common misconception that GRRM writes in deliberately fake-antique English, like, say, Scott or Conan Doyle. All thees and thous and varlets and my lord his demesne.
He doesn't. He has introduced a few invented words and phrases, like "sellsword" for "mercenary", and removed American regionalisms, and he alters the narrative voice depending on who the point of view character is, but his writing - dialogue and description - is in modern English.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 07-18-19 2:07 AM
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40

Eppur si muove.


Posted by: Galileo Galilei | Link to this comment | 07-18-19 3:34 AM
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41

||

A ton of 380-centistoke (cst) high-sulphur fuel oil (HSFO) in Fujairah has slipped from an average $5-$10 premium over Singapore in May to a discount of $30-$70 over the past two weeks, three sources said.
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Posted by: Mossy Character | Link to this comment | 07-18-19 3:55 AM
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42

Butt, it moves.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 07-18-19 3:57 AM
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43

But it can't move by burning bunker oil.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 07-18-19 5:48 AM
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44

A buttering of burning bunker wouldn't budge your butt?


Posted by: Mossy Character | Link to this comment | 07-18-19 5:54 AM
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45

Among my fellow non-Pittsburgh-native friends, unironic, unconscious use of positive anymore was one of the signs that you'd gone native, along with describing where something is relative to where something else used to be. (I had a hat trick of this: describing where something used to be relative to where something else used to be. The building they were both in is now no longer there, burnt down presumably to make redevelopment easier.)

GRRM is definitely very modern. You can't write 1200 page doorstops in either Ye Olde Fakey English or genuine Chaucerian Middle English and expect to sell a sequel.


Posted by: dalriata | Link to this comment | 07-18-19 6:57 AM
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46

I was on the bus watching that fire when the fire trucks got there.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 07-18-19 7:04 AM
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47

Pittsburgh sounds like this unrelenting maelstrom of murder, arson, and public transit.


Posted by: Mossy Character | Link to this comment | 07-18-19 7:46 AM
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48

That's why Moby wants a cob house so badly.


Posted by: dalriata | Link to this comment | 07-18-19 7:54 AM
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49

48: On its good days, all three. And people live there yet.


Posted by: Doug | Link to this comment | 07-18-19 7:55 AM
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50

What's funny is I've read all of ASOIAF. Akin to Kirk Drift, I guess.


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 07-18-19 8:01 AM
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51

The OP made me think of the colloquial use of "ya" (already) for "todavía" (still) in Spanish, which I'm pretty sure is a thing, and IMO improves the language because todavía is a stuffy old four-syllable word and ya slides neatly in anywhere you want it to go, and furthermore the backwards/forwards imprecision is pleasing to me.


Posted by: lurid keyaki | Link to this comment | 07-18-19 8:51 AM
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52

OutKast should have done "Hey Todavía."


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 07-18-19 9:00 AM
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53

Is "no ya" a phrase?


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 07-18-19 9:00 AM
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54

I recently learned from Twitter that apparently everyone in the US, and maybe the English speaking world, thinks that using "no, yeah" for "yes" and "yeah, no" for "no" is unique to their state/region.


Posted by: dalriata | Link to this comment | 07-18-19 9:01 AM
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55

along with describing where something is relative to where something else used to be. (I had a hat trick of this: describing where something used to be relative to where something else used to be.

This is also something that everyone in the US thinks is unique to their state/region.


Posted by: Cryptic ned | Link to this comment | 07-18-19 9:09 AM
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56

Also, every region thinks they have the shittiest drivers, and they're all right.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 07-18-19 9:10 AM
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57

See Also "if you don't like the weather in [your special unique locale], wait an hour!"


Posted by: heebie | Link to this comment | 07-18-19 9:29 AM
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58

56: Yeah, probably.

The variable that changes by region isn't shittiness but aggressiveness.


Posted by: dalriata | Link to this comment | 07-18-19 9:37 AM
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59

58: LA was refreshing in at least not having that annoying trope.


Posted by: | Link to this comment | 07-18-19 9:41 AM
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60

I also enjoyed the relative anonymity of the place.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 07-18-19 9:42 AM
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54: not a native speaker, but that looks weird to me -- I think I'd put negation second, "ya no" and "todavía no." Maybe lourdes can back me up here?


Posted by: lurid keyaki | Link to this comment | 07-18-19 9:43 AM
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I slip into affirmative "anymore" at times because I really don't care* but it drives my wife crazy when I do it. She has daughter-of-NYC-English-teacher-itis and living in Pittsburgh provides her with a constant stream of teeth gritting material.

*Me talk lazy most days.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 07-18-19 9:46 AM
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63

We picked a daycare center for our son because the staff lacked the local accent.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 07-18-19 9:50 AM
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64

Which was worth it.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 07-18-19 9:50 AM
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65

I recently learned from Twitter that apparently everyone in the US, and maybe the English speaking world, thinks that using "no, yeah" for "yes" and "yeah, no" for "no" is unique to their state/region.

It's relatively recent so I see why people see them as regional, but its affirmative or negative meaning is not nearly so clear-cut. "Yeah, no" I believe can be used both as negative or positive, depending on stress and context; and both phrases can be just a conversational moo, meaning neither yes nor no. It's true that "no, yeah" is unlikely to be a negative, I think.


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 07-18-19 9:53 AM
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58: I wonder if that's more midwestern. I know that (locally, central California) we don't talk about our weather varying -- we know that we're in for another 3 months of largely unrelenting heat, for example. Though maybe in the nearby mountains, with their frequent afternoon thunderstorms, they'd use the same "wait an hour". Hmm...


Posted by: Mooseking | Link to this comment | 07-18-19 10:42 AM
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62: A second non-native speaker backs you up, with bonus Iberian pop: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_KQPR8lgxsU


Posted by: lourdes kayak | Link to this comment | 07-18-19 10:55 AM
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63
She has daughter-of-NYC-English-teacher-itis

Are NYC English teachers particularly bad?

67: Midwestern and also Vermont. Growing up we had an outdoor thermometer with a barometer indicating "storm" painted on. The legend said, "if incorrect, wait 5 minutes." I'm pretty sure I've heard something like it here in DC too.


Posted by: Cyrus | Link to this comment | 07-18-19 11:19 AM
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69.lsat: And San Francisco too, no? Also Scotland and Ireland. Some of the people I talked to in London made similar statements.

Not here so much.


Posted by: dalriata | Link to this comment | 07-18-19 11:23 AM
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70

The coldest winter I even spent was winter in Nebraska.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 07-18-19 11:36 AM
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Every time I hear 58, I think of you, Heebs.

To 56, I'll note that Pittsburgh does have a much more stable populace than most places, and so probably does that thing objectively more often, even if it's just marginally more. In places like Boulder or Austin, 2/3 of the people weren't there when that place was still there, unless the reference is a bar that lasted 6 months.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 07-18-19 11:44 AM
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69: When Kai was about 8, one of those weather boards with a dangling rock* was about the funniest thing he'd ever seen.

*If rock is wet, it's raining, if you can't see the rock, it's foggy. etc.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 07-18-19 11:47 AM
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Site we're talking language, can I complain that our Air BnB host in Strasbourg has complained that communication was difficult with us? We were pretty responsive, so I'm fairly certain it comes down to the fact that we're not fluent French speakers (I tried!).

Way to enforce national stereotypes, lady. I should have just had my FIL do all the communication in German.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 07-18-19 11:49 AM
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69: Are NYC English teachers particularly bad?

No, in general they are quite good. And precise in their language. I generally add the NYC element do to things like merry-Mary-marry and various other precise pronunciations, usages, and distinctions that my sloppy Midwesternese did not honor (even before adding in the Pittsburgh elements).


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 07-18-19 12:14 PM
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75

But mostly Mary-merry-marry.


Posted by: JP Stormcrow | Link to this comment | 07-18-19 12:15 PM
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76

do to things

Yod dropper.


Posted by: dalriata | Link to this comment | 07-18-19 12:16 PM
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75. I grew up with the pin-pen merger, which is a southern marker. Having now lived in New England for decades, I actually sometimes say them differently and sometimes even hear them as different. I don't say or hear much difference among merry-Mary-marry.


Posted by: DaveLMA | Link to this comment | 07-18-19 1:20 PM
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People might sometimes say the "wait X minutes" thing in San Francisco, but it's basically bullshit; even before 538 ran the numbers, it never seemed all that intuitive to me.


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 07-18-19 1:51 PM
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79: They don't list exceptions, but that 538 article says that for most cities they're measuring the weather at the airport. My limited experience there has given me the impression that the weather at SFO isn't a good indication of the weather in the city.


Posted by: dalriata | Link to this comment | 07-18-19 1:59 PM
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80

I'm sure it's a different microclimate, but the variability will be similar no, just as it is across the San Francisco and Oakland.


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 07-18-19 2:06 PM
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81

no the


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 07-18-19 2:40 PM
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82

My friend named her kid Amelia Wren, but I didn't see it in writing for years and thought it was Amelia Rinn, perhaps a family name, I figured.


Posted by: heebie | Link to this comment | 07-18-19 2:42 PM
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79: that 538 article is talking about something completely different - not variability intra day, but the variability of daily highs about the long run mean. They say Rapid City has the most unpredictable weather but in fact, for all we know, the weather could stay the same every day from dawn to dusk. That isn't what the "wait five minutes" saying is about at all.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 07-18-19 2:43 PM
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72: ha, am I predictable? yes, I am. Or just wait an hour, and I'll resume predictability.

On my Pittsburgh visiting, I had the common decency to feel bad that I was in stealth mode, but I explained it all on my personal blog, which I'm sure everyone reads with great dedication, so this must surely be redundant.


Posted by: heebie | Link to this comment | 07-18-19 2:46 PM
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85: I think they had that very cool playground set at the zoo when I went there as a kid. Ditto all that Idlewild stuff. The secret security checkpoint is never that empty, I am totes jealous.

I can't recall if they're all there right now (might be out for cleaning), but traditionally when you enter the airside terminal (don't ask) you get greeted by statues of George Washington and Franco Harris. And a T-Rex replica. These are our heroes. The Pittsburgh airport is a strange place.


Posted by: dalriata | Link to this comment | 07-18-19 2:58 PM
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86

I'm touched.


Posted by: heebie | Link to this comment | 07-18-19 3:08 PM
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87

I have no idea what this is about.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 07-18-19 3:38 PM
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88

They say Rapid City has the most unpredictable weather but in fact, for all we know, the weather could stay the same every day from dawn to dusk.

I suppose, but from my experience I suspect these two kinds of variability are highly correlated, at least in the US.


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 07-18-19 4:25 PM
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89

It's all over the news that the U.S. downed an Iranian drone, yet when I dumped on my sister's neighbor's roof, it wasn't a big deal.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 07-18-19 4:45 PM
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88: I don't know. I always associate rapidly changing weather with complex terrain - so near a coast and/or mountains. Inland in plains or forest I'd be more like "sunny first thing in the morning, probably stay sunny all day". But it's complex terrain that has the least variable weather around the mean, per 538.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 07-19-19 3:52 AM
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|| STOP THE PRESSES

Bikini Atoll Is More Radioactive Than Chernobyl, Thanks To Nuclear Bomb Tests
|>


Posted by: Mossy Character | Link to this comment | 07-19-19 4:11 AM
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Bikini Atoll is more radioactive than Chernobyl, yet it had a nuclear bomb test.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 07-19-19 4:53 AM
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90: I agree. Here, in an inland forest with low hills, it's fairly easy to plan for the day. The only major change can happen when a storm rolls in--and that explains why inland places can have daily weather extremes that are quite far from the mean. On the other hand, I've had multiple trips for San Francisco where I go out wearing long sleeves and a jacket because it's windy and cool, only to have the temperature go up 30 degrees Fahrenheit and I'm sweating my ass off. Then it gets cool again.


Posted by: dalriata | Link to this comment | 07-19-19 6:35 AM
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Out on the barren plains, I've seen storms move in so fast that you go from bright sun to full white out in fifteen minutes. Which is unpleasant if you're a half hour from shelter.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 07-19-19 6:57 AM
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95

Sure, but that's it. That's your day, weatherwise. That doesn't happen every hour. And usually the fact that there's a massive honking storm is somewhat predictable these days and you can plan on it. Admittedly maybe not so much back in the day.


Posted by: dalriata | Link to this comment | 07-19-19 7:11 AM
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96

The 80s were a different time.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 07-19-19 7:14 AM
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97

On the other hand, I've had multiple trips for San Francisco where I go out wearing long sleeves and a jacket because it's windy and cool, only to have the temperature go up 30 degrees Fahrenheit and I'm sweating my ass off.

Right, but that is variation within a very stable pattern - windy and cool in the morning, between 10 and 12 the fog burns off and it gets sunny and much warmer.


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 07-19-19 8:25 AM
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98

Yet and still...


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 07-19-19 6:02 PM
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Posted by: ROTIPOKER | Link to this comment | 09-20-19 9:35 AM
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