did someone muck with the backend here

Re: Dang

1

It's like burning your boats where boats are a metaphor for human decency.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 01-28-20 8:05 AM
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Re: the Nazis

Yes, this was one of the most *interesting* threads in Gellately's _Backing Hitler_. He discussed how early on in the Nazi reign (1933) they tried a nationwide boycott of Jewish-owned businesses, but it backfired -- the public didn't get behind it. The Nazis worked over time to bit-by-bit bring their constituency (their "base") over, and eventually, by the end of the war, in speeches, newspaper articles, and even in the discussions captured from people-on-the-street, it became claer that a common thought was "if we get destroyed, it'll be because of what we did to the Jews." By then, there was nothing apologetic about it: the base finally believed that Roosevelt and Stalin were both in thrall to Jewish interests, and that Germany was completely in the right (chilling to read the descriptions from the Nazis, of the Allies -- really chilling). They had to work carefully and *slowly* to desensitize their base to the dispossession and eventual murder of the Jews. And per Moby, yeah, it *is* like burning your boats. To my mind an proper analogy is to gang initiations, where you have to commit a (heinous) crime to join: it guarantees that you can never go back.


Posted by: Chetan Murthy | Link to this comment | 01-28-20 8:24 AM
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Burning a boat can be a heinous crime, depending on the circumstances.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 01-28-20 8:35 AM
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4: Would it be better if you then allowed a lot of water into the boat to put out the fire?


Posted by: Doug | Link to this comment | 01-28-20 8:45 AM
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For many reasons detailed below, the 1918 Spanish Flu outbreak looks like a solid upper limit on how bad things could get with this virus in terms of impact on society.

Oh, good! I feel so much better now.


Posted by: chris y | Link to this comment | 01-28-20 9:16 AM
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6

2 last: Kapuscinski argues something similar for the 1994 Rwanda genocide.


Posted by: Mossy Character | Link to this comment | 01-28-20 10:10 AM
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7

From a movie about the Wansee conference that I saw years ago, I recall that the importance of fostering a sense of collective responsibility (for the extermination of the Jews) was explicitly discussed by the holocaust planners.


Posted by: AcademicLurker | Link to this comment | 01-28-20 10:35 AM
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7: The one with Tucci and Branagh? That was quite good.


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 01-28-20 11:08 AM
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To the OP: I absolutely saw this, but I also can't recall where.

7: Conspiracy is a terrific movie, though I don't recall the aspect of it that you cite. (There was significant discussion of the role of the Rule of Law, though.)


Posted by: politicalfootball | Link to this comment | 01-28-20 11:11 AM
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8,9: This from 1984. Apparently it was made for TV.


Posted by: AcademicLurker | Link to this comment | 01-28-20 11:22 AM
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I think they called them "telescreens" in 1984.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 01-28-20 12:40 PM
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Doubleplusgood.


Posted by: Mossy Character | Link to this comment | 01-28-20 1:04 PM
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an proper analogy is to gang initiations, where you have to commit a (heinous) crime to join: it guarantees that you can never go back

Before that is when you get scared by the power, and then they say hah hah, not *you*, and your relief congeals into acquiescence.

A while ago a dashcam or something caught a state cop saying to a pulled-over woman, oh you know I wouldn't pull you out of your car or shoot you, you're white; and it was so much like the scene in 1984.... Do it to Julia! Not me!


Posted by: clew | Link to this comment | 01-28-20 3:31 PM
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It was this. https://twitter.com/david_rees/status/862352982754689024?s=21


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 01-28-20 6:43 PM
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Also, this is precisely the line where genius and stupidity blend into one. https://twitter.com/marshablackburn/status/1222276330491871239?s=21


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 01-28-20 6:46 PM
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16

I've had occasion to study bullying at some length, & my experience is that bullies don't control you by beating you up. They control you by beating someone else up in front of you & making you watch.


Posted by: Rah | Link to this comment | 01-28-20 9:33 PM
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Rah!


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 01-29-20 11:03 AM
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16 is really interesting. Also, Rah!


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 01-29-20 1:14 PM
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Sincere question: is Dershowitz actually a scholar by any real stretch, or has his career always been based on finding dramatic headliney cases with famous people, getting in the spotlight with chutzpahtic maneuvers, and trading off the resulting notoriety (books, TV)?


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 01-30-20 9:32 AM
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by any real stretch s/b in any real sense


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 01-30-20 9:33 AM
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I'd be interested in more links and citations for 16. It's something I'd like to learn more about.


Posted by: Tia | Link to this comment | 01-30-20 9:43 AM
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