Re: Guest Post - I guess this is goodbye.

1

"Do you like pina coladas...."


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 01-30-20 6:58 AM
horizontal rule
2

Also, is the President of the United States going to be acquitted on the same day as Brexit?


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 01-30-20 7:00 AM
horizontal rule
3

A few suggestions --

"It's Too Late", Carole King

"Blame It on the Sun" Stevie Wonder

"Idiot Wind" Bob Dylan


Posted by: peep | Link to this comment | 01-30-20 7:04 AM
horizontal rule
4

3 is excellent.


Posted by: chris y | Link to this comment | 01-30-20 7:39 AM
horizontal rule
5

So, what actually happens on X day? Do Polish plumbers have to leave the UK? Does everyone have to apply for a new passport? Do they start new border controls on the chunnel, airport, and the ferries?


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 01-30-20 7:54 AM
horizontal rule
6

Enigma Variations


Posted by: Mossy Character | Link to this comment | 01-30-20 8:25 AM
horizontal rule
7

The actual cliff edge is now Dec 31, IIRC.


Posted by: Mossy Character | Link to this comment | 01-30-20 8:27 AM
horizontal rule
8

Goodbye Stranger.

"Goodbye Belgium, goodbye Spain
Will we ever
Meet again..."


Posted by: AcademicLurker | Link to this comment | 01-30-20 8:42 AM
horizontal rule
9

7: Jokes about Brexit being interminable seem more and more like reality.

IANAExpert (is anyone?), but it seems like the most certain thing at this point is the "backstop" deal, right? No "hard border" between the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland; instead, a border in the sea if necessary. Everything else in 5 seems like it's still up in the air.


Posted by: | Link to this comment | 01-30-20 8:44 AM
horizontal rule
10

There'll be no frustrations, just friendly crustaceans, under the sea.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 01-30-20 8:46 AM
horizontal rule
11

I have been wondering if that in the medium term leads to NI leaving the UK and reuniting with the republic, to harmonize the national borders with the customs borders. My Irish informants tell me that the republic does not view this prospect with unmixed positive feelings.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 01-30-20 8:47 AM
horizontal rule
12

9 was me.


Posted by: Cyrus | Link to this comment | 01-30-20 8:51 AM
horizontal rule
13

It's rude to generalize, but the Protestant Irish seem kind of pushy and unpleasant.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 01-30-20 8:51 AM
horizontal rule
14

I find myself thinking about songs with more hurt, and less regret-- not ready to move on yet.

"Walking on a wire" Richard and Linda Thompson.

"What makes think you're the one" Fleetwood Mac

Maybe something county.

"I feel like Hank Williams Tonight " --
https://www.oldielyrics.com/lyrics/jerry_jeff_walker/i_feel_like_hank_williams_tonight.html


Posted by: NickS | Link to this comment | 01-30-20 8:53 AM
horizontal rule
15

It may be a cliche at this point -- "River" Joni Mitchell


Posted by: NickS | Link to this comment | 01-30-20 8:57 AM
horizontal rule
16

13: I never understood why those Irish Protestants can't be convivial and jolly, like the Irish Catholics.

Similarly, what is it with those Palestinians that they won't endorse the eminently reasonable solution proposed by Jared Kushner?


Posted by: politicalfootball | Link to this comment | 01-30-20 9:07 AM
horizontal rule
17

I'm just pointing out that they seem grumpy even when they get what they want.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 01-30-20 9:10 AM
horizontal rule
18

13: it's also that the health and social security system in Northern Ireland is extremely generous by Irish standards (and a lot of people in Northern Ireland are using it) so unification would represent a significant financial cost to Ireland. 25% of Northern Irish regional income is a direct grant from the UK government, which Ireland would have a very hard time matching (would come to about €11 billion, or roughly a third of total current Irish government spending). The alternative would be force Northern Ireland to live on what it is actually earning, i.e. not very much.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 01-30-20 9:11 AM
horizontal rule
19

I never understood why those Irish Protestants can't be convivial and jolly, like the Irish Catholics.

Indeed. The wave of Irish memoirs which dribbled incessantly over bookshops in the last 20 years was not characterised by a general feeling of hilarity and good fellowship.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 01-30-20 9:13 AM
horizontal rule
20

Didn't the EU already settle on "Auld Lang Syne" as the breakup song?


Posted by: | Link to this comment | 01-30-20 9:14 AM
horizontal rule
21

20 was me.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 01-30-20 9:18 AM
horizontal rule
22

"Loch Lomond". Possibly rights have been reserved for Scexit though.


Posted by: Mossy Character | Link to this comment | 01-30-20 9:19 AM
horizontal rule
23

Anna Burns's "Milkman" is a superb recent novel about Belfast during the Troubles and has left me with a knot of dread about what happens next, no matter which side comes out on top politically.


Posted by: lourdes kayak | Link to this comment | 01-30-20 9:34 AM
horizontal rule
24

19: Wait, are saying that Angela's Ashes isn't a zany romantic comedy? And here I was planning on reading it someday.


Posted by: AcademicLurker | Link to this comment | 01-30-20 9:34 AM
horizontal rule
25

Based on a bit of googling inspired by this thread, it seems like the 70s really were the golden age for breakup songs. Post-60s depression, maybe?


Posted by: AcademicLurker | Link to this comment | 01-30-20 9:50 AM
horizontal rule
26

25: Women's Lib.


Posted by: peep | Link to this comment | 01-30-20 9:54 AM
horizontal rule
27

I put somethig up in another place (not the other place) about my new Irish passport, which is relevant, since all my Irish ancestors were Protestants, and would writhe in their graves to know that I had a papist passport. Well, my father would have understood. But *his* father ran guns for the Ulster Volunteers in 1912.


Posted by: NW | Link to this comment | 01-30-20 10:04 AM
horizontal rule
28

Don't for get the mountain goats "no children"


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 01-30-20 10:35 AM
horizontal rule
29

Seventies breakup songs suck, "You're So Vain" excepted, which I think would be good for Belgium, Faster Pussycat's hair metal cover version.

PJ Harvey's Shame and Prince's U Never Call Anymore for the UK on good and bad days respectively?

Somebody I Used to Know maybe for France.

Under My Thumb for Russia.

What are the banking consequences, will Luxembourg be playing Look at Me Now?


Posted by: lw | Link to this comment | 01-30-20 11:17 AM
horizontal rule
30

Wasted Days and Wasted Nights


Posted by: lumpkin | Link to this comment | 01-30-20 11:18 AM
horizontal rule
31

All the banking will move to Dublin.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 01-30-20 11:45 AM
horizontal rule
32

27: You got an ancestry-based Irish passport? I keep on toying with that -- I'm eligible through two grandparents, but it's never seemed useful enough to bother with. But in your shoes, I can completely see that having an EU passport would suddenly be a huge deal.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 01-30-20 11:51 AM
horizontal rule
33

28 is good, soup:

I hope that our few remaining friends
Give up on trying to save us
I hope we come up with a fail-safe plot
To piss off the dumb few that forgave us

I hope the fences we mended
Fall down beneath their own weight
And I hope we hang on past the last exit
I hope it's already too late


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 01-30-20 12:00 PM
horizontal rule
34

But I can't get an ancestry-based UK passport. Racism against Anglos!


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 01-30-20 12:33 PM
horizontal rule
35

Don't forget the Mountain Goats "The Best Ever Death Metal Band out of Denton" because I love it so, so much.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 01-30-20 12:33 PM
horizontal rule
36

Does Denton manage to keep the best death metal bands from leaving?


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 01-30-20 1:01 PM
horizontal rule
37

You'll have to listen to find out.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 01-30-20 1:05 PM
horizontal rule
38

I'm going to figure the answer is yes by a process of pure reason.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 01-30-20 1:11 PM
horizontal rule
39

What, is Anarchy in the Uk too obvious?


Posted by: Barry Freed | Link to this comment | 01-30-20 1:18 PM
horizontal rule
40

Well, "No Children" is "we're going to perdition but together," which doesn't seem quite right for Brexit. I'd maybe go for "Oceanographer's Choice" as the sick feeling of realizing what the separation will really mean.


Posted by: lourdes kayak | Link to this comment | 01-30-20 1:24 PM
horizontal rule
41

32: I would get one because, hey. It's good to have a backup. Shit can hit the fan--we didn't think things would be anything like this ten years ago, and while things probably won't get much worse in the US, I wouldn't discount it. And there are worse places than Ireland to have to spend a few days doing bureaucratic stuff.

My ancestry is too far removed from Ireland to pull that off, but If I stick around here for another six years or so, I can get a second blue passport that also won't give me residency rights in the Costa del Sol.


Posted by: dalriata | Link to this comment | 01-30-20 1:27 PM
horizontal rule
42

32: two grandfathers and my father all born in Belfast, so it turned out I was grotesquely overqualified. Also, I wanted to make a gesture that said "not in my name", however self-indulgent. Most of all, I want to be able to travel unhindered to Sweden in future. If I'd qualified, I'd have gone for Swedish.


Posted by: NW | Link to this comment | 01-30-20 1:32 PM
horizontal rule
43

But there's currently a 2.5 year waiting list for Brits who want to become Swedish, as my son found out last year.


Posted by: NW | Link to this comment | 01-30-20 1:33 PM
horizontal rule
44

39: Don't know what I want but I know how to Brexit.


Posted by: AcademicLurker | Link to this comment | 01-30-20 1:42 PM
horizontal rule
45

It takes that long to become sufficiently glum.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 01-30-20 1:43 PM
horizontal rule
46

They blame this owl's predicament on global warming, but I think it was just stocking up for Brexit: the tragic story of a little owl who ate so many voles it couldn't fly.


Posted by: NW | Link to this comment | 01-30-20 1:46 PM
horizontal rule
47

41: Newt has a plan to become Canadian (apparently if you go to a Canadian university for undergrad, all you need to do is get a job once you graduate and they let you in), so I've been thinking of Canada as a fallback if I need to be a climate refugee.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 01-30-20 1:46 PM
horizontal rule
48

Hasta Manana


Posted by: ABBA | Link to this comment | 01-30-20 2:02 PM
horizontal rule
49

Much of it will; more will just go to Frankfurt. Rees Mogg moved his hedge fund to Dublin over a year ago.


Posted by: chris y | Link to this comment | 01-30-20 2:03 PM
horizontal rule
50

Ireland seems a bit picky. I have an Irish great-great grandfather and grandmother, but that's too far back for their taste. Maybe having read most of Flann O'Brien's and Patrick O'Brian's work would qualify? Not to mention actually reading most of Joyce, including all of Ulysses and Finnegans Wake. Literary merit and all that, including incredible perseverance.

I also like Guinness.


Posted by: DaveLMA | Link to this comment | 01-30-20 2:15 PM
horizontal rule
51

If you have money to spare, consider Maltese investor citizenship. It costs something like €1.1 million in total, of which €650,000 is non-refundable, but that's cheaper than investor citizenship anywhere else in the EU (IIRC) and the weather's better.


Posted by: dalriata | Link to this comment | 01-30-20 2:23 PM
horizontal rule
52

35: Such a good song. Not a break up song. But yes, never forget it. He has some really good lyrics.


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 01-30-20 2:36 PM
horizontal rule
53

Not a breakup song, but "Tomorrow Wendy"?


Posted by: | Link to this comment | 01-30-20 2:45 PM
horizontal rule
54

53 is me.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 01-30-20 2:51 PM
horizontal rule
55

another candidate song: https://twitter.com/tomrosenthal/status/1222242112307187712


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 01-30-20 2:53 PM
horizontal rule
56

There's also the obvious answer -- "Flash's Theme" from the Flash Gordon soundtrack. It's the answer to all musical questions.


Posted by: Walt Someguy | Link to this comment | 01-30-20 2:56 PM
horizontal rule
57

Off topic (except maybe in the sense of things that seem off): What pawnshop can sell $35,000 worth of stamps?


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 01-30-20 4:16 PM
horizontal rule
58

"Adventures in Solitude" - New Pornos


Posted by: bill | Link to this comment | 01-30-20 4:23 PM
horizontal rule
59

You can get St. Lucian citizenship for $100,000. CARICOM is not the EU, but it has its advantages.


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 01-30-20 6:05 PM
horizontal rule
60

I'm thinking the EU has the edge in the climate change stakes.


Posted by: Mossy Character | Link to this comment | 01-30-20 6:43 PM
horizontal rule
61

Yeah, but CARICOM has the edge on rum drinks with pink umbrellas.


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 01-30-20 8:26 PM
horizontal rule
62

61 to 1


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 01-30-20 8:46 PM
horizontal rule
63

Never tell me the odds.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 01-30-20 8:47 PM
horizontal rule
64

If you buy $200,000 in real estate in Dominica, and hold on to it for three years, you can get citizenship.

Its a pretty good deal because Dominica's a little hard up these days, and also has to compete with St. Lucia.


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 01-30-20 9:29 PM
horizontal rule
65

64: That's 50K more than I paid last year for 5 acres of NW Montana with extras like "in a first world country" and "not in a hurricane area", but to each his own.


Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 01-30-20 9:44 PM
horizontal rule
66

But Dominica has volcanoes. Does Montana have volcanoes?


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 01-30-20 10:35 PM
horizontal rule
67

I mean, I'm not saying it worked out for Montserrat, just that volcanoes, in principle, are pretty cool.


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 01-30-20 10:37 PM
horizontal rule
68

There's always the Yellowstone caldera super eruption option.


Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 01-30-20 10:40 PM
horizontal rule
69

That would be pretty metal.


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 01-30-20 10:41 PM
horizontal rule
70

Only while molten. Ugly once cooled.


Posted by: Mossy Character | Link to this comment | 01-31-20 12:01 AM
horizontal rule
71

60: Until the Gulf Stream stops bringing warm water north, that is.

45: Nordic Pink Floyd, "I have become, sufficiently glum..."


Posted by: Doug | Link to this comment | 01-31-20 5:45 AM
horizontal rule
72

||

After last week's horrible experience with my sister-in-law's Solent treatment http://www.unfogged.com/archives/comments_17116.html#2061531 (on the advice of my shrink) I sent her an e-mail saying I'd like things to go more smoothly and could agree to ground rules to maintain civility.

Since she seems to text a lot more than she e-mails, Tim texted it his brother to let him know. His brother said SIL was probably behind on her e-mails. Then Tim said if she could read it and respond yesterday it would be appreciated. We're all going to be together today. Then Tim's brother texted back that he had chatted with SIL and was confused. He thought that the time 2 weeks ago had gone well and that it was important for us all to come together as a family to support their Mother. We could discuss things later. Tim's had brought it up to his mother who had observed the tension to and told Tim she didn't know what to do. I'm certainly not blameless, because my reactions probably fueled SIL's counter-reactions - but the idea that everything went well is just crazy. I get that he doesn't want to talk about it - though SIL has told my MIL that the two of us should just have a heart to heart to work through things - but this is some kind of psychotic distortion of reality.

*Sorry about the lack of html tags. Phone is not cooperating.

|>


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 01-31-20 5:50 AM
horizontal rule
73

Is it possible Tim's brother didn't actually talk to his wife about it? That sounds like something I'd do.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 01-31-20 6:43 AM
horizontal rule
74

71.2: I like that!


Posted by: peep | Link to this comment | 01-31-20 7:02 AM
horizontal rule
75

73: I don't know. It seems like it Would be better to say, "let's just leave it for now." I think Tim's brother knows it didn't go well, but I do genuinely think that she might believe everything was fine which just seems bizarre.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 01-31-20 7:03 AM
horizontal rule
76

71: If the Gulf Stream stops transporting heat the heat stays home. In CARICOM.


Posted by: Mossy Character | Link to this comment | 01-31-20 7:10 AM
horizontal rule
77

76: And hogs all of the rum, too.


Posted by: Doug | Link to this comment | 01-31-20 7:20 AM
horizontal rule
78

Hogs the hogs, also.


Posted by: Opinionated Buccaneers | Link to this comment | 01-31-20 7:22 AM
horizontal rule
79

66 We're hosting my niece's 19 year old stepdaughter for a couple of weeks, and last night I told her the story of how my wife and I got together. One essential part of the story is an eruption of Mt St Helens that made outdoor work unsafe in Montana.


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 01-31-20 7:32 PM
horizontal rule
80

Montana lacks volcanoes but imports sufficient volcanic ash.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 01-31-20 7:43 PM
horizontal rule
81

||

China's appetite for tripe, liver and kidneys means offal imports from the U.S. are worth about six times as much as the beef trade at present.
|>


Posted by: Mossy Character | Link to this comment | 01-31-20 8:33 PM
horizontal rule
82

That's an offal lot of money.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 01-31-20 8:37 PM
horizontal rule
83

When I was a student in England, I used to buy cheap steak and kidney pies. I finally stopped because I couldn't tell the steak from the kidney and that made me think it must have been very bad steak.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 01-31-20 8:39 PM
horizontal rule
84

My friend Julian got us barred for life from the chippie in Biggar by observing that the sign outside saying "Beware of the Dog" (it was that kind of town, and probably still is) might just as well have read "Beware of the steak pie -- it comes to the same thing in the end"


Posted by: Opinionated Sandy | Link to this comment | 02- 1-20 12:59 PM
horizontal rule
85

The worst I ever ate at the chippie was the sausage.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 02- 1-20 1:02 PM
horizontal rule
86

You weren't in Scotland, then.


Posted by: NW | Link to this comment | 02- 1-20 1:04 PM
horizontal rule
87

Only briefly.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 02- 1-20 1:05 PM
horizontal rule
88

||

NMM to Andy Gill. Truly one of the greatest guitarists ever. I am utterly bereft.

|>


Posted by: Barry Freed | Link to this comment | 02- 1-20 1:20 PM
horizontal rule
89

Fuck this one hurts


Posted by: Barry Freed | Link to this comment | 02- 1-20 1:39 PM
horizontal rule
90

In Yorkshire potted beef is unniversally referred to as potted dog. If a sandwich shop barred everybody who asked them for "Potted dog and salad, no cream", they'd go out of business in a week.


Posted by: chris y | Link to this comment | 02- 1-20 2:33 PM
horizontal rule
91

Ugh, dry potted beef?


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 02- 1-20 2:39 PM
horizontal rule
92

88: :(


Posted by: lourdes kayak | Link to this comment | 02- 1-20 5:44 PM
horizontal rule
93

Saw him on the 2005 reunion tour (lurid too). What a show.


Posted by: lourdes kayak | Link to this comment | 02- 1-20 5:50 PM
horizontal rule
94

||
Because I'm just generally gloomy and thinking about euthanasia this morning, I have a question for the commentariat: what happens to poor people with Alzheimer's in the US? I've read, and urge others to read, Roz Chast's account of her parents' declines and deaths, "Can't we talk about something more pleasant", but they had savings. What happens to the millions who don't?
|>


Posted by: NW | Link to this comment | 02- 2-20 2:32 AM
horizontal rule
95

Sadly, I don't qualify for any kind of EU passport.* But we need to make sure my son gets the one he is entitled to.

if _Scotland_ eventually leaves the UK, and joins the EU, I've no idea WTF I'd do, as I was born in London. Although we moved back to Scotland when I was about 4 weeks old.


* to the best of my knowledge, my Dad's family are all Irish if you go back far enough**
** by which I mean the early 19th century, not Dalriada.***
*** although, obviously, probably there, too.****
**** but sadly too far back to qualify for a passport.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 02- 2-20 7:02 AM
horizontal rule
96

94: Medicare, the program that pays for health care for Boomers, won't pay for a nursing home or similar. Medicaid, the program that pay for health care for the poor, will pay for nursing care. Unlike Medicare, Medicaid is stingy in what it pays to providers, so it can be difficult to find a home if you are paying with Medicaid. My guess is that it is close to impossible for certain geographic areas and levels of need, but I don't know for certain. I think quality of care is generally good, but it will vary by state.

Also, if you don't limit "poor" to real poverty but instead look at middle class people who were comfortably retired but can't pay for a nursing home for very long, you have to exhaust all nearly all your assets to use Medicaid. There's a formal "spend down" process where somebody with middle class level assets pays for less and less of their own care as these assets go away. After the assets are down to nothing, the government takes what income you do have to pay and then pays the rest. There are various steps taken to make is harder to game the system by giving away assets once you need nursing care. There are provisions to leave enough for the support of a spouse but they are stingy enough that instrumental divorce is supposedly common.

You can purchase long-term care insurance. I don't know how many people do that or what it costs, but I'm supposed to look into purchasing a policy in 2022.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 02- 2-20 7:41 AM
horizontal rule
97

95. I predict that the citizenship status of people like you will be the first big hammer and tongs political fight in independent Scotland. But I also predict that they'll end up with a system modelled on the Irish one, so that if you can document a grandparent born in the country you'll be good. They won't ultimatly want to exclude the intellectual and commercial diaspora; it would make them look bad.


Posted by: chris y | Link to this comment | 02- 2-20 8:18 AM
horizontal rule
98

re: 97

Possibly, yeah. I think you are right.

Also, Scotland is very different* in its attitude to immigration. Which I suspect will help. Two grandparents, one parent, born in Scotland. My brother and sister, both born in Scotland. Went to school, and university in Scotland, and lived there for 28 years. So, I'd like to hope there'd be some kind of route for someone not actually physically born in Scotland, to gain citizenship if independence happens.

Ironically, I have two very close friends and drinking buddies, both of whom live one street away from me in London. Both Irish. But both had to get Irish citizenship for their kids through their grandparents, because, as would be fairly typical, their parents AND their wives' parents (also Irish) all came to live and work in the UK in the late 60s and early 70s, and they were all born here before they moved back as kids.

* this doesn't, of course, mean magically immune to racism or xenophobia.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 02- 2-20 8:32 AM
horizontal rule
99

This is probably relevant to something.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 02- 2-20 8:40 AM
horizontal rule
100

The first pan-Europeans with beards?


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 02- 2-20 8:44 AM
horizontal rule
101

Led Zeppelin was good, but the people who added the kittens had the genius.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 02- 2-20 8:53 AM
horizontal rule
102

98.3. Yes, my brother in law is in a similar situation regarding getting Irish passports for his kids. He has one himself, but he was born in the USA and lives in England.


Posted by: chris y | Link to this comment | 02- 2-20 9:09 AM
horizontal rule
103

NW, 94 is a reasonably good summary. People who have less than $5,000 of assets not including primary residence (or vehicle, I think) qualify for Medicaid. Medicaid reimburses nursing homes. They are generally less nice (like a school or hospital more than like a large home), but not bad if the person affected has involved family members (which may or may not be the case). Medicaid has a "lookback" of five years, so you can't game it by "giving" your children $10K per year that they will spend on your care. You have to manage carefully if you're able to afford a private facility, because there is a lag between hitting the asset requirement to convert from private pay to Medicaid and approval into the program. In some ways, it's straightforward if you don't really have any money - apply and get on a waiting list for a facility. Lists can be long in some cases, but average is months, not years. If you have to spend down assets, you can't make large gifts, and the most straightforward is to move into a private facility which also takes Medicaid (not all do), then sell the house at just the right point to bridge the gap. Private pay facilities typically cost $7,000-20,000 per month, depending on the level of care and location. Another difficulty is married couples who aren't rich. The rules are sort of complicated about community property. They're theoretically not supposed to bankrupt the surviving spouse while the sick one qualifies for Medicaid, but managing this generally requires a lawyer or other professional who really understands the rules and can divide up assets appropriately.


Posted by: | Link to this comment | 02- 2-20 10:11 AM
horizontal rule
104

Oops. Last is me.


Posted by: yndew | Link to this comment | 02- 2-20 10:13 AM
horizontal rule
105

thanks, ydnew and Moby. The cost of high end private care is startling to me. But things aren't as bad as I supposed


Posted by: NW | Link to this comment | 02- 2-20 10:21 AM
horizontal rule
106

Agree with 97. I'm sure, though, that the new country will welcome all the white immigrants it can get.


Posted by: NW | Link to this comment | 02- 2-20 10:23 AM
horizontal rule
107

103: Thanks. I wasn't really sure how it worked with spouses because it never came up for us.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 02- 2-20 11:19 AM
horizontal rule
108

The private ones really do strive to look like a house, with some success. My mom has a private suite with a bedroom and a living room. It's been a couple of years and my mom still thinks she is at home. We, with the encouragement of the staff, moved in a bunch of her stuff to make it look like that. She thinks she is in the basement watching TV because that's where they watched TV at home. That she is looking out a second floor window and describing looking down on things doesn't register as a contradiction. I think it's just the overall ambiance that is registering and discordant details just don't gain any foothold.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 02- 2-20 11:27 AM
horizontal rule
109

Periodically, rooms with better views open up, but there's probably not a single view in all of Lincoln worth the hassle of getting somebody with no ability to form new memories to learn to go back to a different room.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 02- 2-20 11:35 AM
horizontal rule
110

Some of the places we looked into tried for a homey-vibe in the rooms and a fake downtown-in-1950-vibe in the common areas. Posters of Bogart and Bacall, a retro store front in front of the cafeteria, model cars with tailfins, etc. So now my greatest fear is my son dropping me off at a place where there is a Heathers poster on the wall and telling me that I'm home and I'm just aware enough to notice the problem but not enough to articulate a sentence pointing this out.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 02- 2-20 11:43 AM
horizontal rule
111

OT: So, I have learned how to understand the Lycoming Co property website. The parcel I noted as being listed for sale doesn't intersect with a trail. It's a narrow strip with 300' of creek frontage and going back about 2000', which looks to be about as far back as you can walk before the hill gets steep enough you'd need to climb. There are a half dozen similar properties in the same situation, except they have cabins. Two of them sold fairly recently for much, much less than what that is listed for. I can't figure out what they are doing, unless it includes the property next door (owned by a family member).


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 02- 2-20 12:56 PM
horizontal rule
112

Ydnew's summary is excellent. If any Americans find yourself in that situation, get an elder law lawyer, especially if the person involved is married.


Posted by: James Buchanan | Link to this comment | 02- 2-20 2:43 PM
horizontal rule
113

It's probably going to be seen as rude to ask a potential lawyer if they are married.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 02- 2-20 2:47 PM
horizontal rule
114

The whole Medicaid thing above sounds to me (although reasonably generous if stickily implemented) like a de facto estate tax on everyone who isn't wealthy enough to be certain of private care until their deaths. Which is to say, very wealthy indeed. A nearly 100% tax, which isn't even paid to the state but to private parties.


Posted by: Mossy Character | Link to this comment | 02- 2-20 3:56 PM
horizontal rule
115

I don't know the numbers, but a substantial percentage must die without needing long term care.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 02- 2-20 5:24 PM
horizontal rule
116

For starters, we shoot each other entirely more often than you'd think.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 02- 2-20 5:35 PM
horizontal rule
117

I mean, more than you'd think based on a process of pure reason.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 02- 2-20 5:39 PM
horizontal rule
118

Plus, we now have a salted Pop Tart. That's going to take out more than a few.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 02- 2-20 5:54 PM
horizontal rule
119

Ex recto, the middle classes are both less likely to get shot and more likely to need long-term care. America! You regress to excess.


Posted by: Mossy Character | Link to this comment | 02- 2-20 6:18 PM
horizontal rule
120

Mike Bloomberg just reminded everybody watching the Super Bowl about shooting.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 02- 2-20 6:26 PM
horizontal rule
121

Also, the Planter's Peanut is some kind of phoenix, reborn from its own grave. That can't be good for us mortals.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 02- 2-20 6:28 PM
horizontal rule
122

A nearly 100% tax, which isn't even paid to the state but to private parties.

Also we are expected to spend our entire careers saving up for it.


Posted by: Spike | Link to this comment | 02- 2-20 7:02 PM
horizontal rule
123

Won't somebody think of the bankers.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 02- 2-20 7:13 PM
horizontal rule
124

In America, public restroom doors have gaps so that you can see people coming into the room in case you need to shoot them.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 02- 2-20 7:22 PM
horizontal rule
125

Thanks, 112. 114 pretty much nails it. I used to know stats on average stay in a care facility. It's not all that long, normally, maybe 3 months? Not a lot of families need to juggle the spenddown and transition to Medicaid. AJ's grandmother was diagnosed with Alzheimer's at 90 and lived to 93, had some assets and income but not enough for the end of her life so had to do the transition.

Dad was really worried about affording Mom's care (about 4 years total in a facility, roughly $400,000 out of pocket not including extra medical like the fancy prescription to limit crying jags). Luckily (?), my grandmother died about a year earlier, and Mom's inheritance, due to a property in CA held since 1947, was enough to cover her care plus a bit more, but I know it would have wiped out a significant fraction of Dad's savings, and he's "only" 71. If she'd lived longer or he'd needed to place her sooner, or if she hadn't had that inheritance, it might have been grim.

It's a problem that saps a lot of wealth, but the cases tend to be somewhat unusual in the US. For now.


Posted by: ydnew | Link to this comment | 02- 2-20 8:57 PM
horizontal rule
126

It's a problem that successive UK governments refuse to face. The problem here is that if you die of cancer your care is free but if you die of Alzheimer's, you have to pay for it. Theresa May quite probably lost her majority in the 2017 election because of a policy to do something about this, which involved using people's houses to pay for social care that was immediately denounced as a "dementia tax". The proposed limit on capital was much more generous than medicaid -- £100,000 -- but much more widely applied. You couldn't dodge it by dying at home.

Given that in this country the house represents almost everyone's capital, anything that erodes its value to the family is poison among the electorate (disproportionately house owners).


Posted by: NW | Link to this comment | 02- 3-20 3:18 AM
horizontal rule
127

I guess I'm not inclined to snark on Irish Protestants at the moment. I just think this is a very bad thing for Northern Ireland, for Catholics and Protestants alike.


Posted by: Just Plain Jane | Link to this comment | 02- 3-20 9:20 PM
horizontal rule
128

So the Iowa caucus is a complete clusterfuck, how about that?


Posted by: Barry Freed | Link to this comment | 02- 4-20 12:41 AM
horizontal rule
129

It's almost as if caucuses are a terrible process for making important decisions.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 02- 4-20 12:46 AM
horizontal rule
130

It's also this shady app thing


Posted by: Barry Freed | Link to this comment | 02- 4-20 1:18 AM
horizontal rule
131

My favorite anecdote was precinct chairs calling in the night of the caucus to learn how the app works. Which I can totally believe. There's probably been 25 emails and calls about the new app, and hey attend the new app training, and make sure you're all set with the new app, and then it's last night and several people are like wait, what? app?


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 02- 4-20 5:16 AM
horizontal rule