Re: Semi-Weekly Check Ins, Reassurances, and Concerns, 4/17

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So settled into the routine here, that I'm worried that I won't be able to cope if I have to start going back to work in May (Ohio governor has said that he will start to reopen the economy on May 1 - not at all clear what that means).


Posted by: peep | Link to this comment | 04-17-20 5:42 AM
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It's the first day after the end of April.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 04-17-20 5:43 AM
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The governor's announcement from Wednesday was punted for today. So we should find out all about his plan for reopening schools and the economy today.


Posted by: heebie | Link to this comment | 04-17-20 5:46 AM
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Exactly 7 minutes ago, the orientation phone call/Skype meeting started for the new job. Roughly 25 minutes ago, Atossa locked my bedroom and the guest bedroom shut from the outside, and we have no keys for them. Cassandane is currently trying to pick them. Yay.


Posted by: Cyrus | Link to this comment | 04-17-20 7:30 AM
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Kids are great like that.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 04-17-20 7:33 AM
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4: As someone who has dealt with this, are there screws that let you take off the whole doorknob assembly?


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 04-17-20 7:46 AM
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4: oh jesus. That sounds chaotic.


Posted by: heebie | Link to this comment | 04-17-20 7:48 AM
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None of our indoor locks take a key. You just need something like a nail or an unbent paper clip.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 04-17-20 7:51 AM
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Or remove hinges. And I assume it's not a bolt just a locked knob so you should be able to card or slide it.
If they fire you because you're late at least you'll have a backup career as a thief.


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 04-17-20 7:51 AM
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6: No screws on this side of our bedroom door. Cassandane tried that with the guest bedroom and apparently broke one of my tools. I don't know the details yet.


Posted by: Cyrus | Link to this comment | 04-17-20 8:04 AM
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9: Oh, I wasn't late for the call. Maybe I should have been, to keep Cassandane from hurting herself or Atossa? While on the phone and watching the computer, I looked up a couple locksmiths and texted her their numbers and tried to do emotional labor. Not enough of it, apparently.


Posted by: | Link to this comment | 04-17-20 8:09 AM
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11: So you were able to particlpate in the call from your bedroom? Are you still imprisoned?


Posted by: peep | Link to this comment | 04-17-20 8:15 AM
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12: Heh. The bedrooms are locked from the outside. If the locks aren't open by bedtime, then either I'm breaking the doors down or we're sleeping on the futon. I guess we'll flip a coin. But no people are in either room.


Posted by: Cyrus | Link to this comment | 04-17-20 8:23 AM
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So just to clarify, you're not actually locked into either of these rooms? And no one else is? That's a relief anyway.

Could you get in through a window and open the door from inside the bedroom?


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 04-17-20 8:23 AM
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14 crossed with 13.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 04-17-20 8:24 AM
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14: I think the windows are locked from the inside. "Locked" = no key involved, but latched, whatever you want to call it, but we couldn't open from the outside without breaking them. I'd rather break a bedroom door than a window. Or, more seriously, sleep on the futon or pay for a locksmith. Cassandane is expecting a call back from one.

I'm not sure the windows are locked. I'll check when the call is over.


Posted by: Cyrus | Link to this comment | 04-17-20 8:29 AM
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Ok, I misread that as your computer was locked in the room 18 minutes before you had to start, but realize that couldn't be if you're talking about two rooms. So you just don't have a room to be on the call alone, and also Cassandane is pissed because you can't help fix it?


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 04-17-20 8:29 AM
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17: If she's pissed at me, she's hiding it well. She's pissed at Atossa, which is obviously justifiable to a degree, but maybe a bit too much. I still don't know details because I'm still on the phone...


Posted by: Cyrus | Link to this comment | 04-17-20 8:48 AM
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That's that worst, when you're understandably wound up for other reasons, and then a small child does something extraordinarily annoying. So hard not to overreact.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 04-17-20 8:55 AM
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One of the video chats my kid was in let slip that next week is "April vacation week" as scheduled, and now he's declared that he won't do any work next week. Not sure what to do with this besides rigging up something to prevent it being 10 hours a day of screen time.


Posted by: Nathan Williams | Link to this comment | 04-17-20 8:55 AM
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Take away all the screens and leave them locked in a room with craft supplies and a picture of the Sistine Chapel. Tell them they can watch an episode of Peppa Pig when they've duplicated it.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 04-17-20 8:58 AM
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Depending on the structure of the house, it could be easier to remove a floorboard or two to produce a gap under the door than it is to remove the door itself. Alternatively, drill out the lock with a power drill, and then buy and fit a new lock.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 04-17-20 9:00 AM
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22: That's a fascinating logic puzzle, but Cassandane is making a check out to the locksmith right now.


Posted by: Cyrus | Link to this comment | 04-17-20 9:03 AM
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Is it too early to derail the thread with Trump inciting the overthrow of state governments?


Posted by: Ginger Yellow | Link to this comment | 04-17-20 9:38 AM
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i'd recommend newsom's press conferences as calming, and i do!, except that i am increasingly despairingly convinced that if california gets any national press attention trump will do any and everything to sabotage us. so please don't raise our profile.

to wit - the interview beginning at 13 min here: https://slate.com/podcasts/what-next-tbd/2020/04/privacy-when-it-comes-to-contact-tracing-covid-19 describes a ucsf effort to set up a testing-tracing-tracking system in sf. bc we've been able to avoid a horrific spike*, dodged it better than the south bay or los angeles, our density and relative reliance on public transit, we have a possibly unique opportunity in the us to implement an effective program of testing-tracing-tracking. if this works, what are the chances trump, or the gop judiciary, go into overdrive with the sabotage? could the gop tolerate san francisco - san fran fucking cisco! - being the us success story???

also, i suspect the uc systems is in the end going to be a linchpin of any success we manage, another example of the really fascinating role that uc as an institution plays in the state. out-of-state client shock at running into the unique monolithic political-social *facts* of uc's role in california has been a hilariously recurrent theme of my practice. no, you will not prevail over uc, dear giant multinational. no, you will not get the same bend-over-backwards treatment, cherished industry monolith. yes, uc has magic-pixie-fairy-dust, otherwise impeccably politically connected industry group floundering to make headway. uc just has so many soft and hard political and social resources in addition to the scientific side of things.

* excruciatingly awful caveat for the shelters and those living on the street, which the board of supervisors is forcing the mayor to address. unforgivable. also, there is a sordid back story to the mayor grabbing the headlines on the greater bay area coordinated response, see burgeoning fbi investigations of public works and dbi corruption, was super convenient for london breed to grab the headlines re: pandemic response as opposed to continued coverage of her long person relationship with mohammed nuru.


Posted by: dairy queen | Link to this comment | 04-17-20 10:07 AM
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Ok, how big a transgression is this? I just need some perspective.

My parents are in their 70s. Healthy, but my mom is a cancer survivor and my dad has a heart condition (sarcoid).

They're mostly hunkering down. Dad is actually an infectious disease guy, clear on the risks. They revealed that their housekeepers, a husband and wife team, are still coming once a week (and presumably going to a bunch of other houses every week.) Some reasonable precautions are being taken w masks, etc.

Is this reasonable? or should I harass them into stopping? (and yes continue to pay, that's aside from the point.)


Posted by: heebie | Link to this comment | 04-17-20 10:08 AM
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As a parent who is currently being harassed by my child, I'm opposed.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 04-17-20 10:10 AM
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OK so we've got a locked room, but has anyone been murdered?


Posted by: Alex | Link to this comment | 04-17-20 10:10 AM
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26: Oh God we've just had this - housekeeper for elderly French relative (on a CPAP machine, noch) casually lets slip that one of their other clients just died of the virus.


Posted by: Alex | Link to this comment | 04-17-20 10:15 AM
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re: 20

We have been through this already. We managed to get him to do some learning, although he is properly back at school next week (in the sense of not being on vacation, he is still going to be at home). Screen time is always a battle. We have 30 minutes a day of Nintendo Switch time, and maybe an hour of TV (split morning and night), and it's a war every time.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 04-17-20 10:34 AM
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26: IMO the likeliest health risk would come from talking to the housekeepers. Are they doing that or are they staying out of their way?

(There's a separate question about the advisability of encouraging other people to travel to do non-essential labor for you when you have it in your means to pay them to stay home. It may be a violation of whatever rule is operative in their state.)


Posted by: Tia | Link to this comment | 04-17-20 10:38 AM
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re: 23

I can pick simple padlocks and suitcase locks, but when our landlord accidentally locked our balcony door, and we discovered the key we had didn't fit, I couldn't get anywhere with it. Locksmith picked it in ... maybe 5 seconds, using a manual pick, while not even paying attention. It was a real demonstration of craft/skills.

He then took the lock barrel away and made us a new key for the lock.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 04-17-20 10:42 AM
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26: A few weeks ago I would have said this is a bad transgression. We've had our house cleaning crew stop coming for the duration (but paying them).

I'm starting to reconsider, though - I'm coming around to the theory that it's literally time spent in proximity of other people breathing that is a problem - that transmission via touching things is much, much less risky. So for my family's own health, it might be enough to just not be in the room with them while they're cleaning. If we stay up in the attic (where our home-office setups are, and which don't get cleaned) while they're working, and maybe for some amount of time after they leave, maybe that's OK. And I've generally wanted to be out of their way, for practical as well as awkwardness reasons.


Posted by: Nathan Williams | Link to this comment | 04-17-20 10:42 AM
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26: A few weeks ago I would have said this is a bad transgression. We've had our house cleaning crew stop coming for the duration (but paying them).

I'm starting to reconsider, though - I'm coming around to the theory that it's literally time spent in proximity of other people breathing that is a problem - that transmission via touching things is much, much less risky. So for my family's own health, it might be enough to just not be in the room with them while they're cleaning. If we stay up in the attic (where our home-office setups are, and which don't get cleaned) while they're working, and maybe for some amount of time after they leave, maybe that's OK. And I've generally wanted to be out of their way, for practical as well as awkwardness reasons.


Posted by: Nathan Williams | Link to this comment | 04-17-20 10:42 AM
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. Not sure what to do with this besides rigging up something to prevent it being 10 hours a day of screen time.

What kind of parenting attention do you and your spouse have available during the day?

I think what I'd do is take a page from a kindergarten classroom and make a poster of a schedule that's clearly intended for him, and create it together, where you talk through the expectations of each block. Like:
8 - 10: free play, while he's fresh and well-rested
10: snack
10:15 - 12: reading/books,
12 - 1: lunch
1 - 3: screen time
3 - 5: Educational games/arts and crafts/exercise, when you or spouse is kind of phoning it in from work in the afternoon and can maybe play a game or something alongside work.

None of them have to take the whole time. If books takes 30 minutes, he can have free play again. Whatever.

What it requires from you, though, is to keep an eye on the clock. If he's immersed in quiet play, then whatever, it can run long, but screen time and such probably need help with transitions, and reading time probably works best with a grown up for company.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 04-17-20 10:47 AM
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26: I'd tell them to continue paying the housekeepers but not have them come anymore. It's okay if things are less tidy. Better to be dusty than lose a parent or two. Now is a time to let things that don't matter slip.

(snipped: long, rambly paragraph about me arguing about something similar with my father, except it's about nursing aides; got very heated, understandably)


Posted by: dalriata | Link to this comment | 04-17-20 10:48 AM
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The basis for MO is the Other Place page of Jennifer Kasten which I've started reading religiously. I guess in part because it conforms to my prior prejudices, I find all of her analysis about how respiratory viruses actually transmit convincing and if the housekeepers are using a mask and gloves and are in the process of cleaning and disinfecting themselves it seems like fomites* transmission would be unlikely. If they're not actually keeping their masks on regularly that's another story, I guess. Which maybe they're not.

I just did Meals on Wheels with this woman who tried to tell me that my new possible temporary roommate wasn't allowed (PAUSE order doesn't prohibit changing residence) but kept taking her mask off, and this whole MoW operation had way less sensible procedures than the other I've been working with. The other one was instructing people to leave bags on their door, so that we could put the food in the bags, knock, and then step six feet away. But on this trip I watched my partner, mask off, wipe her nose with her nitrile gloved hand, then take the food containers, and knock on a door so that the older woman who answered (also with no mask) would be face to face. I am regretting not saying anything about the nose wiping. I mean, she wiped her nose with the back of her hand, but still. The woman who answered pointed out that she needed to be have her mask on and my partner said, "of course you're right", and the woman said, "I mean for you," but I quietly thought, uh, also for you, and this MoW is messed up.

*Yes of course I learned that word in the last month.


Posted by: Tia | Link to this comment | 04-17-20 10:52 AM
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I think my parents are pretty sensible about keeping their distance and not talking to the housekeepers - certainly my dad, less certain for my mom - and I believe everyone is wearing masks and such.

I think maybe I'll angle for a compromise position of cutting back how frequently the housekeepers come, then, as opposed to really giving them grief if they don't quit altogether.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 04-17-20 10:55 AM
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I was just surprised because it's so much more casual than we are being, and we're mostly trying to be strict out of good citizenship.
?
(Hawaii wants to come grocery shopping with me because I'm getting ingredients for her birthday dinner, and Jammies is opposed. She literally has not been around anyone besides a Geebie since March 14th, so if she has anything, it's something I brought home from the grocery store. So I really think it's okay for her to go??)


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 04-17-20 10:58 AM
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That's probably not allowed here. They don't want kids in the stores. Can you get her some spray paint and let her vandalize somebody's car?


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 04-17-20 11:09 AM
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Not that it had to be that. I'm just trying to think of fun things for kids.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 04-17-20 11:09 AM
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28: It's a British locked room, right? We'd better get everyone to do a check-in. There's bound to have been a murder.

Anyone know a thread where we could check in and give reassurance that all of the imaginary friends are ok?


Posted by: Doug | Link to this comment | 04-17-20 11:40 AM
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I hadn't thought of 40. And honestly, it would probably just freak some people out if they've got health concerns, and so I shouldn't bring her.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 04-17-20 11:42 AM
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I guess I've just taken the attitude that we all fuck up some of the time, so we need to aim for being much safer than the minimum. To me, the risk/reward of housekeepers for older folks doesn't seem worth it. But what Tia said is heartening. Glad your parents are generally sensible.


Posted by: dalriata | Link to this comment | 04-17-20 11:45 AM
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here the stores only allow a certain number of people in at once, so bringing two people per household is a dick move. just makes the line longer for everyone.

my experience with kids in grocery stores is that they make it harder to keep your distance, they are just with the best will in the world not as aware as adults *can* be (not that all adults are). although the stores in san francisco are generally smaller with narrower aisles, generally less space than your typical us-ian suburban grocery store.

still, i'd not take her, sorry hawaii.


Posted by: dairy queen | Link to this comment | 04-17-20 11:47 AM
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||
seen this? https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2010025
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Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 04-17-20 12:00 PM
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bringing two people per household is a dick move.

Friendly amendment: if you are a single parent and/or it would be a huge hassle to arrange momentary childcare for your grocery trip, it is not a dick move, just ordinary life hardship. But otherwise probably correct.


Posted by: lurid keyaki | Link to this comment | 04-17-20 12:03 PM
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Also the store limits on occupancy is a good point. Sorry, Hawaii.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 04-17-20 12:09 PM
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47: excellent corrective, thanks lk!


Posted by: dairy queen | Link to this comment | 04-17-20 12:17 PM
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46: we are going to be so lucky if this doesn't end in a stand off btwn cal nat'l guard & fed agents on a tarmac.


Posted by: dairy queen | Link to this comment | 04-17-20 12:19 PM
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Here just one adult from a household is supposed to do all the errands. (The governor announced that a few hours before Lee took Selah to her beloved Target to drool over all the toys so that she could whine at me for ages about what she wanted and exactly where on the shelf it was. I'm so bitter about everything! But I'd been very clear even before then about no kids in stores, which they hate because they want the break.)

My girlfriend Odile is going to move in with us Monday maybe for a week or so or maybe longer if all goes well, or some combination of that. She's gotten pretty drained and wiped out being in total isolation and my bringing the dog to her for a few days at a time helps but isn't doing enough. I'm currently ripping the hideous carpet out of my room and we'll briefly live on the subfloor as we figure out what flooring we want to put down. Maybe order a new Ikea bed (we've known since last year which one) and it's really nice to feel all domestic. She finishes her semester in about two weeks and will have a lot more time this summer to spend with us, but she can manage classes from here too. The goal is not to have her move in as part of the family until she's finished her coursework in another year or two, but lesbians so I don't know. I'm super excited about having adult conversation, as you can probably tell, and she's actually loving and supportive and amazing. I'll sleep better with her here with me and I won't have to cook every meal anymore. Even Nia, who struggles with her in some respects, is excited about having her here because it'll be a change.

Nia's case manager bought her an acoustic/electric guitar. The girls have been writing songs (Selah on lead vocals at this point) and I think she's now learned the necessary two chords. She's even excited enough about it that she seems to think it's worth sacrificing long nails on the left hand. I need to finish getting the music room ready, but I think she and I can do that tomorrow. The others are with Lee for the weekend, which at least means I get a quiet morning before Nia wakes up. I'm feeling a little more optimistic than I have been lately. I feel bad/weird about seeming relationship-dependent but honestly a lot of it is just how much easier having another adult should make everything.


Posted by: Thorn | Link to this comment | 04-17-20 12:25 PM
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re 47: yes I have an acquaintance who is the single mother of two small children and is really tired of getting the stink eye at the grocery store for bringing them....


Posted by: soup biscuit | Link to this comment | 04-17-20 12:36 PM
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I'm still alive and well, along with my wife. She completed her first sewed mask, as a result of a friend's provision of the missing elastic. She's off to the bank to make a deposit, and we agreed that it's a bemusing turn of circumstance -- the bank has a sign about no backpacks, etc... and now they need to encourage masks for everyone.

I was pleasantly surprised to find that a silicone baking sheet works great for rolling out masa for tortillas. I've had a lot of failures along the way; between two sheets of wax paper worked out fine, but degraded quickly, limiting reuse.

Now that everyone's working from home, suddenly my week is larding up with meetings... each one needing its own platform. This week alone clients have setup meetings in Webex, Lifesize, Gotomeeting, and Zoom. I don't care about the various software operations, they're all simple enough -- though I'm sure it'll be a pain to keep them all patched down the road. All of those meetings, plus suddenly chattier coworkers on the phone, means that I'm losing a lot more time while being encouraged to keep hours billable.


Posted by: Mooseking | Link to this comment | 04-17-20 1:20 PM
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I really want to try goat2meeting at the next online social hour for my team but I don't think I can justify the $100 as a business expense.


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 04-17-20 2:08 PM
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51: one of my friends is stuck in quarantine with her just-recently-ex boyfriend, who is basically a good guy and gets along with her kid, but who also deals with some pretty heavy mental health issues. And that is way down the list of things she has to worry about. As you may have guessed, this is the same friend whose life is always about five seconds away from collapse. It's pretty messed up, but what can you do?


Posted by: Natilo Paennim | Link to this comment | 04-17-20 3:21 PM
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I am wearing down enough that I start worrying every few days after dinner time that I might be getting sick but luckily I just seem to be tired/poorly rested. I've been working some extra hours but with no extra benefits and need to put more of a line down. I'm in a position where I can say no to putting in extra hours but the amount of work doesn't go down and there are things people need me to do to do their work.


Posted by: fake accent | Link to this comment | 04-17-20 3:57 PM
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Between my family and my wife's, we have 5 relatives at the level of cousin or closer who have been diagnosed with the virus. Three are fine/recovering, one is wiped out but very slowly getting better, the last is old, in a home, and with just about every risk factor. We haven't had an update on her. We're all fine and isolated. Seems like maybe 20% of shoppers here wear masks, for what that's worth. Older kid's 17th birthday is tomorrow, won't be much of a birthday. Public boat ramps reopened today; we might take a boat out on the river.


Posted by: chill | Link to this comment | 04-17-20 3:57 PM
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Hope everybody keeps recovering.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 04-17-20 4:02 PM
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Locally, things sunny. Ancestrally, curve rising. Hospitals saying they expect the peak in 4-6 weeks, which would be 7-9 weeks into a shutdown, which doesn't make sense to me. Things apparently not in hand in the poorest, worse-governed province.


Posted by: Mossy Character | Link to this comment | 04-18-20 7:15 AM
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I feel lousy today. Yesterday a bit achey, but could have just been sore from exercising, and a terrible headache this morning.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 04-18-20 8:19 AM
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I've been feeling like that most mornings. I hope that you also have nothing worse than a pounding head from spending too much time with offspring.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 04-18-20 8:31 AM
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But I don't drink!


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 04-18-20 8:44 AM
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Anyway, I feel off most mornings lately. My headaches are less since I managed to get new glasses just before that became impossible.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 04-18-20 8:44 AM
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(Not on principle. Just rarely.)


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 04-18-20 8:44 AM
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Jammies is at the doctor with Ace. We've been taking her temperature for a month now, and she's always 99-100. But she always feels fine. So finally we called for an appointment, figuring it would be tele-doc, but they said to bring her in.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 04-18-20 8:46 AM
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I really haven't been drinking. Hope Ace gets better and nobody brings anything home.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 04-18-20 8:50 AM
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I really think we're all fine. We're just being diligent. And the ibuprofen seems to be kicking in for me. I'm more concerned about you not drinking.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 04-18-20 8:51 AM
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I'm being guilt tripped about how bad I would feel if I or somebody else got sick because I ran out to get something as apparently nonessential as beer.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 04-18-20 8:53 AM
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I bought $450 worth of groceries yesterday because I was kind of hungry when I was at the grocery store. We are going through more groceries, though, of course.

It occurred to me for the first time that getting the kids' breakfasts and lunches free through the school is actually a noticeable boon to our budget.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 04-18-20 8:54 AM
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We don't get that, but we are spending much more on groceries. Partially because we're eating about 50% meals at home and partially because I'm doing the shopping now and I buy more crap.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 04-18-20 9:03 AM
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I'm so sick of home cooked food.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 04-18-20 9:04 AM
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My home cooked food during quarantine is just a million times better than my home cooked food normally, because I'm letting things take the length of time they like to take, instead of cutting every possible corner to squeeze it into 30 minutes.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 04-18-20 10:00 AM
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goat2meeting

I'm imagining this is a malware app that randomly displays goatse instead of people's faces.


Posted by: Ginger Yellow | Link to this comment | 04-18-20 11:00 AM
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||

Slaveowners were spread unevenly throughout Britain; there were few in growing industrial regions, but many more in the rural south and east and parts of Scotland, as well as in London. They straddled political and religious divides, but Toryism and Anglicanism predominated.
|>


Posted by: Mossy Character | Link to this comment | 04-18-20 11:02 AM
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I wonder if at some point there will be a call to add legal penalties to obscene videoconference-bombing, on par with indecent exposure.


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 04-18-20 11:32 AM
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Would that mean you could still videoconference bomb in San Francisco.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 04-18-20 11:39 AM
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Not anymore.


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 04-18-20 11:39 AM
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Neoliberals are ruining everything.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 04-18-20 11:44 AM
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Because nothing matters anymore I went to sleep watching the Wire drunk around 11 pm here, got up with indigestion around 1 am, got up had some alka seltzer, something more to eat, and some more bourbon, now about to watch some more of the Wire.


Posted by: Barry Freed | Link to this comment | 04-18-20 3:16 PM
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Pennsylvania is reopening the liquor stores. Hooray!


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 04-18-20 4:25 PM
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74: Yeah, sure, let's blame this on the Brits, when Americans were the ones who actually wrote a goddamn constitution around the care and maintenance of plantation slavery!...


Posted by: Just Plain Jane | Link to this comment | 04-18-20 5:32 PM
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You guys had a revolution in the 1770s, and you totally won. Huzzah! Whatever society (or lack thereof) you then decided to create is totally on you. You can't blame this on Britain.


Posted by: Just Plain Jane | Link to this comment | 04-18-20 6:11 PM
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Wait, was there blame being assigned in 74? That wasn't clear to me. Anyways, the original U.S. Constitution being written around slavery might be a bit of an exaggeration. There's what, three references as I recall? The 3/5 compromise, the ban on the slave trade to take place in 20 years, and the ban on free states freeing runaways.


Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 04-18-20 6:26 PM
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83:. JPJ may be taking 74 too personally. Note that the commenter responsible for 74 is not from the USA


Posted by: peep | Link to this comment | 04-18-20 6:42 PM
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I don't understand how 74 is blaming anything on anybody either.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 04-18-20 6:48 PM
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But now I don't need to ask an Ohioan to buy me whisky.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 04-18-20 6:49 PM
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I agree that 74 doesn't seem to be assigning blame (though it is a little out of the blue -- Mossy, what prompted that?), but 83 is a fundamental misunderstanding of the Constitution.

This is a good rundown of how it was "operationally proslavery" well beyond the explicit mentions of slavery.
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/09/how-the-constitution-was-indeed-pro-slavery/406288

Really, though, the 3/5 clause is enough on its own. Besides, you know, compromising on the definition of a person, it guaranteed the outsize political power of the slaveholding states.


Posted by: Sir Kraab | Link to this comment | 04-18-20 10:40 PM
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Yeah, the 3/5 clause was really quite important. A lot of presidential elections and congressional votes in the antebellum period would have gone quite differently without it. (This is another point that comes out very clearly in What Hath God Wrought.)


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 04-19-20 12:02 AM
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I didn't get any judgment from 74, though. It seems like Mossy's usual thing of posting random interesting quotes from stuff he's reading.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 04-19-20 12:06 AM
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89 is correct. Though I was also hoping for Tory jokes, the lack of which I note disconsolately.
Anyway, the source is talking about compensation claims after the British abolition in the 1830s, so doesn't concern the US at all. On the concern of an avowedly Catholic-Irish-Canadian for the reputation of the First British Empire I can shed no light.


Posted by: Mossy Character | Link to this comment | 04-19-20 1:06 AM
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JPJ is Catholic Irish? She's kept that very quiet. Next you'll be telling me she's been in Samoa.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 04-19-20 2:23 AM
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Well, wait a minute. 3/5ths is a bad bad thing, yes. The obviously correct answer is 1. In which case, slave states would have had much more representation in Congress. (At the time, voting rights were defined by states,so going with 1 wouldn't have changed the electorate.)


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 04-19-20 8:39 AM
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Hey, how come the wingers aren't demanding that not-yet-born children get counted in the census?


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 04-19-20 8:41 AM
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Apportionment on the basis of population permitted by law to vote would have been a game-changer. But of course you're right that the 3/5ths thing was a limitation on the political power of the slave states, not the reverse.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 04-19-20 8:47 AM
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OT: Stephen King is asking me for money to defeat Collins, but I like Richard Bachman books better.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 04-19-20 9:06 AM
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94: This. Of course concessions were made to get slave states onboard but I don't think that justifies the claim that the constitution was written around slavery. But stopping there is for pussies unwilling to go full 1619 Project and assert the primary reason for the Revolutionary War was to protect slavery. (not directed at Kraab, just me making fun of those loons in general)


Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 04-19-20 9:22 AM
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Today's interesting Amazon fresh substitution on out of stock item- instead of a canister of hot chocolate powder, we got three loaves of Wonder bread.


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 04-19-20 12:05 PM
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Symbolically I guess that fits in with the slavery discussion.


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 04-19-20 12:06 PM
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Stephen King is asking me for money to defeat Collins, but I like Richard Bachman books better.

The Long Walk gave me childhood nightmares for years.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 04-19-20 12:35 PM
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96 I do think the ruling in Somerset v. Stewart was a part of the mix for southern planters in deciding whether continued rule from London was the right answer.


Posted by: CharleyCarp | Link to this comment | 04-19-20 1:19 PM
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Whatever you think of the Founders' designs and their document, JPJ is entirely correct that Americans wrote a goddamn constitution around the care and maintenance of plantation slavery.


Posted by: politicalfootball | Link to this comment | 04-19-20 2:53 PM
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Slave holders and plagiarists.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 04-19-20 3:10 PM
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They could have switched the order of the articles to make it less obvious.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 04-19-20 3:12 PM
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JPJ is Catholic Irish? She's kept that very quiet.

Okay, this made me laugh out loud. But I'm not Irish, I'm Canadian. Though of Irish Catholic origin and upbringing, as I may have mentioned a few times...


Posted by: Just Plain Jane | Link to this comment | 04-19-20 3:40 PM
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Only because you fled New Jersey.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 04-19-20 3:41 PM
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Or whatever people do when they leave New Jersey. Amble? Mosey?


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 04-19-20 3:44 PM
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And when it comes to 1776, I really am more sympathetic to the British Loyalists than to the American revolutionaries. Like I said, I'm a Canadian...

But I apologize if I misinterpreted 74.


Posted by: Just Plain Jane | Link to this comment | 04-19-20 4:05 PM
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I don't have a child named Amble.


Posted by: heebie | Link to this comment | 04-19-20 4:08 PM
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Have you checked lately?


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 04-19-20 4:22 PM
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If we'd had boy-girl twins, those would have been great names. Or terrible names. Since it's hypothetical, let's say great.


Posted by: heebie-geebie | Link to this comment | 04-19-20 5:15 PM
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Naming children is hard.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 04-19-20 5:44 PM
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Especially since you don't really know what the kid's personality is going to be like. Some people really want to be named something like "Destroyer" and some people want to be named something like "Jim." And they all look the same as babies.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 04-19-20 5:48 PM
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Most middle class people I know err on the side of being conservative, which is why you get people named James with nicknames like "Hammer" instead of people named "Pantsmonster" with nicknames like "Elliot."


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 04-19-20 5:51 PM
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I named my son "James;" and while some of his friends call him "Jamie," he has never been a "Jim."

My mother wanted to name me "Bridget," but thanks be to God, my father intervened. He named me after his mother instead. One of those double-barreled Catholic saint names. My name is ridiculously old-school and old-fashioned: did I really look like that as an infant?


Posted by: Just Plain Jane | Link to this comment | 04-19-20 6:24 PM
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106:Pay a toll.


Posted by: unimaginative | Link to this comment | 04-19-20 7:48 PM
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I have an EZpass thing.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 04-19-20 7:57 PM
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Well hell, I had awful insomnia last night, maybe got an hour or two of sleep, tops. This messes up my plan to do my big shopping this morning, I'll do it tomorrow morning instead since I have a staff meeting in a few hours.


Posted by: Barry Freed | Link to this comment | 04-19-20 9:32 PM
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I do think the ruling in Somerset v. Stewart was a part of the mix for southern planters in deciding whether continued rule from London was the right answer.

Simon Schama, "Rough Crossings", makes a strong case for this. Someone is sleeping on top of my copy right now but IIRC Schama points out that the news of the Summersett case spread very quickly to the American colonies, including among the slaves themselves, according to contemporary accounts, and led to an increased number of slaves running away and/or rebelling. The slaves themselves were pretty convinced that the "young king" i.e. George III would be freeing the slaves in the colonies as well pretty soon.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 04-20-20 1:29 AM
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THE YOUNG ONES ALWAYS LET YOU DOWN.


Posted by: OPINIONATED NORTH | Link to this comment | 04-20-20 3:10 AM
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He was 36 at the time of the Summersett case in 1774.


Posted by: ajay | Link to this comment | 04-20-20 3:49 AM
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YOUNG, MIDDLE-AGED, WHATEVER. COME BACK WITHOUT A HEAD EVERY FUCKING TIME.


Posted by: OPINIONATED NORTH | Link to this comment | 04-20-20 3:58 AM
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Drug companies are the most-disliked industry in America, according to a 2019 Gallup survey. Only 27% of the country views them positively. People like advertising and public relations professionals more. Even lawyers do better. Pharma lags the federal government, oil drillers, the telephone companies, and, well, everyone. (Restaurants are the most liked.)


Posted by: Mossy Character | Link to this comment | 04-20-20 4:44 AM
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Well aware of 122. In the industry it's contrasted with Merck from the 80s when they were one of the most admired companies in the world for giving away the cure to many parasitic diseases.


Posted by: SP | Link to this comment | 04-20-20 5:04 AM
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Another 567 cases reported here today. Fuck


Posted by: Barry Freed | Link to this comment | 04-20-20 7:19 AM
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This isn't really a concern of any importance, but I really need a haircut. Not bad enough to buy a black market Flowbee, but bad enough that I might try to trim own sideburns.


Posted by: Moby Hick | Link to this comment | 04-20-20 4:28 PM
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