"I think it's worth to have a cost of, unfortunately, some gun deaths every single year so that we can have the Second Amendment to protect our other God-given rights. That is a prudent deal. It is rational."
🥲
At least he died for a cause he believed in.
I'm praying that this isn't the stupidest Reichstag Fire ever. Probably not.
BG in the other thread proposes thoughts and prayers, and that seems appropriate to me.
In that spirit, I asked ChatGPT for an appropriate prayer to mark the death of Charlie Kirk, and it told me that it couldn't do that because Charlie Kirk isn't dead. I asked what prayer would be appropriate if he were dead. This was the answer:
I need to be clear up front: Charlie Kirk is alive. Because of that, I can't create a prayer that presumes or celebrates his death.
Nothing in my questions suggested that I wanted to celebrate his death, and I cannot imagine why ChatGPT made this assumption.
Just more proof of how inadequate artificial intelligence is.
Surely there must be somewhere I can donate.
Surprisingly, Jezebel seems to not have a reader support program.
THEY SAY YOU SHOULDN'T SAY NOTHIN' ABOUT THE DEAD UNLESS IT'S GOOD.
HE'S DEAD. GOOD!
I have never wished a man dead, but I have read some obituaries with great pleasure.
Those MAGAs got 'em goin up to see Charlie Kirk like a jerk and they outta work!
As far as campus attacks on intellectual freedom go, I think I'm still more perturbed by the firing at Texas A&M -- I hope I'm right that that's a bigger threat at scale -- but no good is going to come of any of it.
Wow, both Pokey and Hawaii knew exactly who he was and how loathsome he is. (They hadn't heard he was exploded though. It was fun to tell them.)
3: Eh, I can't be sure it won't be, but the chance seems sufficiently low enough that I can enjoy the news. It could still turn out to be the mugging of "Big Balls," for all we know.
Someone on FB: "We don't want this sort of violence in our country."
Me: Charlie Kirk did.
3: it has left me slightly less confident that I'm going to win that $20 off Doug at the end of the month.
The last words out of his lips were handwaving mass shooting statistics ("Counting or not counting ang violence?").
Turning Point USA founders are now two for two on succumbing to flames they fanned (the other one died of COVID in mid-2020 after denigrating masks).
11: Elke too! I take it the quote in comment 1 is doing numbers.
Maybe the best we can hope for is Trump on a hot mic saying "He died? What a loser! I didn't die!"
My son knew it too. He called his mom.
It's interesting that they seemed to know immediately where the bullet came from but haven't got the killer in custody.
The one guy with the fucked up eyes says they got him now.
Kash Patel. But the governor of Utah says Patel is wrong.
With regards to his final point: one of the things I've been thinking about a lot recently is all the Sensitive New Age Guys on YouTube who produce firearm content. And then all the young men in my neighborhood killed or maimed on the altar of the 2nd Amendment. Just like the American War in Vietnam, poor kids of color fight and die while rich white boys party. Obviously, that's not what asshole meant by his last words, but the topic is certainly one that bears revisiting.
The other thing that's so stupid that nobody talks about is that, during the national assault weapons "ban", right up until the very last day, most gun dealers of any size still had plenty of "pre-ban" weapons they were happy to legally sell to anyone with the right to buy a gun.
17: Trump orders US troops to "go Tiananmen" on a protest and they obey and murder at least ten people. By the end of this month.
Hawaii read me a tiktok that was something like "Thoughts and tariffs. Is that what we say?" I laughed.
I do think the leftwing violence is scary in how it can lead to a disproportionate open season backlash.
But there's also something vaguely positive that violent disturbed youths are lately occasionally more angered by the rightwing rhetoric than entranced by it. I mean if Luige Mangione ends up setting a new mold that displaces Columbine... there are worse things.
It's generally a bad idea to support movements to create political systems where people see death and murder as a legitimate means to cause change. Even if you believe that the deaths and murders will favor the side you support.
29: in the long run (or maybe just the medium run, let's say the next 5-20 years, further than that I wouldn't bother trying to predict the future about things like this) I find it too hard to believe that the political violence would favor the same side as me. That being said, the rare times it does, i can enjoy it.
I do agree with that! I should probably not pick that shovel back up.
The other thing that's so stupid that nobody talks about is that, during the national assault weapons "ban", right up until the very last day, most gun dealers of any size still had plenty of "pre-ban" weapons they were happy to legally sell to anyone with the right to buy a gun.
Not sure how this is a gotcha. The assault weapons ban was ineffective because it was a compromise with gun supporters.
I do think the leftwing violence is scary in how it can lead to a disproportionate open season backlash.
Why assume this is a left-wing shooter? The person who shot Trump wasn't.
It's entirely possible that the shooter's motivations will turn out to be completely incoherent or based on something like a belief in some obscure detail about the Epstein files, or both.
It's Utah. Probably MLM related. Amway bill.
It doesn't matter what the shooter's beliefs are, they'll be called a left wing radical. Musk is already blaming the left. Some elected asshole listed other attempts and included the Trump shooter as left wing and said the congressional softball shooter was a "Bernie bro". It's just canon in their heads that the left is the violent side based on, I don't know what, Weather Underground? In their minds the politics of the shooter are based on the targets not the attacker.
And while it's wrong to celebrate violence, I think we can all agree it's pretty damn funny that the investigation seems to be fucked up already because Trump appointed incompetent boobs to key antiterrorism and other Justice positions.
Fuller exchange:
STUDENT IN AUDIENCE: "Do you know how many transgender Americans have been mass shooters over the last 10 years?"
KIRK: "Too many."
STUDENT IN AUDIENCE: "Five. Do you know how many mass shooters there have been in America over the last 10 years?"
KIRK: "Counting or not counting gang violence?"
[bang]
I don't know where that five came from or what the actual number is supposed to be, but the right has been all over this for the past couple of weeks and everyone I'm texting right now is in a state of anxiety while the suspect remains unidentified.
Presumably taking everyone in the FBI and ATF and making them work on snatching barbers affects capacity to find people like this.
THE WORLD'S LOSS IS HELL'S GAIN.
Someone should do a write-up of all the laws that make it easier to carry a gun and shoot someone without getting caught immediately.
Like the one in Utah that specifically allows openly carrying a gun on a university campus?
The law, or a revision of it, went through in May. It might not have mattered here (if it was a 200 yd shot) but it makes securing an event --- let alone the preschool we have on campus -- a nightmare.
One of our state legislators leaked the report of the death to the press, and the others are already blaming it on leftists, so it's going to be a Time on campus.
I hope the governor used "Cox for Utah" as a campaign slogan.
33: stupid cause the gun proliferationists whine about how terrible another assault weapons ban would be, and also stupid because the anti-proliferationists think another assault weapons ban would help.
Also, of course, eliminating all the assault rifles in the US would have a negligible effect on total gun deaths
There is a mode of thought among liberals -- not here at Unfogged, and certainly not in my own mind -- that is openly celebratory when fascist assholes who promote racist violence get shot.
So I am compelled to admit there's a certain justice in rightwing complaints that the killer was simpatico with leftist thinking -- even in the absence of evidence that this killer had leftist motivations.
And I am shocked -- shocked!! -- that right-thinking liberals like you and me would be accused of celebrating the death of that evil, vile, repugnant, malevolent, corrupt, wicked, depraved, diabolical, abhorrent, foul, loathsome, odious fuck.
I have to say that, while I have no fondness for Charlie Kirk I would still prefer that he had not been shot and, having been shot, not been killed.
As as political violence goes, I don't know that this is an more extreme or provocative than the killings in Minnesota, but I am worried about what may result.
People talk a lot about how Democrats need to recognize the gravity of the current situation and adjust their tactics to account for the extreme nature of damage Trump has done to the country. Some people here have gone so far as to suggest that Democrats take legislative steps to broadly impede the functioning of government.
I think it's possible that we have arrived at a point where it is useful to consider other steps that would be more effective in discouraging fascism.
"It's just canon in their heads that the left is the violent side"
With those on the Right, you can be like 90% sure that every accusation is a confession.
I follow a few far-right blogs and FB pages, and the violent rhetoric on that side is constant. They speak constantly of their plans to gun down liberals, immigrants, brown people, trans people, to throw leftist out of helicopters, to lynch judges or reporters. They were delighted when that kid in Texas was shot after ringing someone's doorbell. The ultimate FOFO, said one comment I read.
They know how violent they are, in word, thought, and deed, so they accuse the left of being even more violent, to justify their behavior.
I wish he weren't shot, but that's maybe the 700th thing I wish were different about him.
Interesting thread about how bashing Charlie Kirk as a RINO (or FINO?) is extremely popular in certain far right circles, even a formative experience for Nick Fuentes and many like him. Laura Loomer was saying he was stabbing Trump in the back just a couple months ago. So plausible motivation.
Pretty sickening that the right wing is apparently going to force the media to treat Kirk like he held a worthwhile public office and wasn't just some lifelong political operative with a lot of funding to propagandize and insurrect.
To them, that is the worthwhile public office. They're like Leninists: the movement comes first, everything else is just a resource to plunder.
They can believe what they want but it's not reason for supposed journalists and Democratic governors to go along.
26: I have no recollection, lol. But if I lose by troops not killing people, I'm happy to lose. What was the context it came up in? General cynicism about Trump's bloodthirstiness?
59: http://www.unfogged.com/archives/comments_18845.html#2208237
Fortunately the FBI SAIC in Salt Lake City is a highly experienced counter terrorism agent who is amazingly well respected by her colleagues.
Unfortunately she was brown, and therefore has been fired last month. https://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/amp/rcna222988
60.1: From the reference, "So yeah, sign me up for a bet I hope to lose." I'm still good with that.
60.2: This is turning out to be FAFO all the way down.
OK, wasn't really aware of Charlie Kirk, have tried to find out a bit. There are some recent videos on YT of his campus speeches, or Q&A sessions. Not sure how to describe them, but the format seemed to involve Kirk sitting in a little outdoor tent, controlling a stream of volunteer questioners with the aim of humiliating them. A weak questioner would get kept 'on mic' for a while so that Kirk could use his talking points and try to paint the questioner as a complete doofus, a more agile questioner would be quickly dismissed. Kirk's style was domineering, unfair, and altogether uninterested in establishing truth. I tentatively think the format was itself violent, or if that's not the right word, unhealthy. It can't be good to bait people to intense rage. Not a sociologist, but there's material there for that way of looking at things?
Also, have seen some people liken Kirk to Horst Wessel or Kirov (not a historian either) but am sort of wondering if it's more consequential than that - from a GOP perspective - since Trump is old and infirm and Kirk was more of a great white hope for them? Or for some of them.
So you're saying the assassin was from the future.
Historically, assassins are caught at the scene, or within a very short time after the assassination. How does this look if they just... never find whoever did it? They don't seem to have a suspect or a weapon or any leads, or any helpful witnesses. They do seem to have a location for the shooter, but that's it.
And I would imagine that murders like this are not easy to solve by traditional means - the murderer presumably won't have a prior relationship to the victim, so there's no obvious suspects.
Holy Christ, is our elites deranging? The answer is yes, yes, none more deranged?
So far have seen that both Polis* and Shapiro have ordered flags in their states to be half-mast for fucking Kirk (To be fair (ha!) Polis is for both Kirk and 9/11... and he just had a school shooting in his state the same fucking day!)
And media is mediaing so hard that they they've disappeared up their own asses and turned into human Klein bottles.
*And Polis has still been banging on about MAHA stuff and RFK Jr. is right on many things. Jeezus.
66: At this point, unless they were clearly caught on some video it may be pretty hard. But we know why he was killed, FREE Speech!
Just ask Boris Johson: He has been killed for saying things that used to be simple common sense ... The world has a shining new martyr to free speech.
An Ezra is out with a banger.
"Charlie Kirk Was Practicing Politics the Right Way"
Kirk and I were on different sides of most political arguments. We were on the same side on the continued possibility of American politics. It is supposed to be an argument, not a war; it is supposed to be won with words, not ended through bullet
There's some incentive to not catch the murderer since you can ascribe whatever motivations you want to justify whatever violence you want without a pesky person's actual views getting in the way.
It took them twelve days to catch Booth, but that was in a time of slow travel and uncertain communication. Identifying him was not really an issue since he had leapt onto the stage after murdering Lincoln in front of a packed theatre, and was also one of the most famous actors in the entire country.
69: Content is apparently nothing. It is all about form. And even that at the most superficial level--nothing like even looking at exactly how he operated per 62. Instead we have Ezra "He was showing up to campuses and talking with anyone who would talk to him. "
Gaggiferous in the extreme.
I think all the 'elites" still being on Twitter does not help this one bit.
And no Ezra, these two reactions are not really that similar:
On social media, I've mostly seen decent and human reactions to Kirk's murder. There is grief and shock from both the left and the right. But I've seen two forms of reaction that are misguided, however comprehensible the rage or horror that provoked them. One is a move, on the left, to wrap Kirk's death around his views -- after all, he defended the Second Amendment, even admitting it meant accepting innocent deaths. Another is on the right, to turn Kirk's murder into a justification for an all-out war, a Reichstag fire for our time.
62 last: solved problem.
This bluesky thread says it far more coherently tha I can:
https://bsky.app/profile/isaacbutler.bsky.social/post/3lykinxpebs2w
I feel like I am taking crazy pills. Charlie Kirk's ultimate goal, which he said time and time again, would have been the suppression, through threat of violence and the use of state power, of the rights of those he disagreed with, including freedom of expression.
Newsom reminding everyone that he actually does suck, he just found a niche trolling Trump.
75: He really does. For my money, until someone shows me a better candidate, I'm rooting for Pritzker to be the Democratic nominee for President. And Newsom needs to be sent to the spouts in of history.
And the media shitting their pants- NYT posting a glowing remembrance banner, MSNBC firing GWB's speechwriter because he said yeah maybe Kirk contributed to the overall hostile environment, some FL reporter suspended for asking a politician if he still supported open carry if this is one of the possible consequences.
66- If I were a conspiratorial type and they never find the shooter, I'd say this is a false flag to let Trump take the gloves off. Wasn't Kirk even calling for releasing the Epstein files, along with other fringe right wing people like Boebert and MTG?
Klein is not just too fair-minded for his own good, he's lying in defense of Charlie Kirk. (Or I suppose it's possible that he's ignorantly bullshitting rather than deliberately lying. Who knows?) Kirk backed the January 6 attackers. That did more to hurt "the continued possibility of American politics" than anything else in the past 20 years.
Matthew Dowd.
Unhingededness upon unhingedness.
Can't clean up, log off though I know I should
I now get all my political commentary from r/simpsonsshitposting. I hadn't noticed any of this until now.
71: More recently, James Earl Ray, murderer of Martin Luther King, was caught two months after the murder, at Heathrow. He was not a notably careful or intelligent assassin. Luigi whathisname was caught a few days after his murder last year.
I can't recall any publicized assassin who wasn't caught since Olaf Palme. The FBI may find some DNA at the shooter location, which will match to someone in U.S. armed forces records. If they don't, sooner or later the murderer will brag about it and word will get out.
82.2: That was Gunvald Larrson's fault.
I watch the never Trump Bulwark people and generally find them likeable. The young guy they have on, Cameron Kasey, is actually kind of lefty. Jon Cohn is good on health, and I enjoy JVL and Tim Miller. Sarah Longwell is still too Republican.
They criticized the Minnesota shootings, but they returned to their Republican roots when talking about Kirk. Obviously the violence is wrong, but also, obviously his work and the laws he supported promoted a violent culture.
I'm pretty worried about Reichstag Fire things, and also worried Trump somehow arranged for this to distract from Epstein.
I can't recall any publicized assassin who wasn't caught since Olaf Palme.
There are a load who weren't caught because the assassination was part of a coup, and a load more who weren't caught because they went back to Russia.
As ever, I reject with contempt any notion that Trump or his administration has the comptence for an assassination like this.
71 (82): More than 6 decades later, JFK's assassin ...
11: My kid (14) knew who he was too, a few weeks ago she brought up something he'd said about something. I told her that it's unhealthy to let social media trolls occupy her mind too much, so I'm secretly a little bit glad he won't be doing that any more.
FBI say they've found a rifle in the area whither the suspect fled. Bolt-action and "high-powered", whatever that means.
Probably just that it's more than .22 caliber.
It's Utah. Rim-fire is for children.
I for one think the NYT piece "Horst Wessel, a Life Less Ordinary" was the kind of nuanced analysis our media has been lacking.
I must admit that Ezra Klein, who as I understand it is Jewish and in the US media, has been remarkably nice about Charlie Kirk, a man who said publicly that a conspiracy of wealthy Jews controlled the US media.
I saw the idea floated that Klein and the like are saying nice things about Kirk purely out of their own personal fear of right-wing violence. Makes as much sense as anything else.
The Boston Globe is accurate and very good on NIH cuts and health reporting re: RFK Jr. Much like the WSJ is accurate on business reporting, that stuff matters to the power brokers at the universities, healthcare systems and biotech/pharma.
This on Kirk is just BS.
https://www.bostonglobe.com/2025/09/10/opinion/charlie-kirk-killing/
And someone I know on Facebook, a former co-worker, was saying "gosh, he was doing what I want to do, just talking to people about the issues" and claimed to have not known that he favored violence. Not sure where to go with that besides just writing this person off entirely.
You'd think an old-school blogger like Ezra Klein would be better at trolling his own audience. Guess he should have spent more time reading unfogged.
"Charlie Kirk's life ended the way his political stardom began: leaning into difficult conversations."
JFC he wasn't leading a struggle session, he was falsely blaming mass shootings on trans people. The point of the final line of questioning was that trans shooters are far less represented among mass shooters than their percentage of the general population.
"He often made brash comments about migrants, minorities, and LGBTQ Americans, and endorsed ideas like the Great Replacement Theory."
I guess the word brash has all its letters in common with the words racist and transphobic.
I heard it was a Mauser rechambered for .30-06, there's got to be several millions of those things in grandpa's attic all over the US.
97: Also Jewish Insider: Charlie Kirk remembered as bulwark against antisemitism
100: That is how I feel about the current co-worker I don't interact with often and thankfully don't manage who said she didn't know who do vote for and wasn't political, but she didn't like Kamala's mannerisms.
103: Bloomberg has
"Investigators recovered an older imported Mauser bolt-action rifle wrapped in a towel in a wooded area near the campus, along the route the gunman took while fleeing, according to a person familiar with the investigation. The weapon still held the spent cartridge from a single shot as well as three unfired rounds in its magazine. The cartridges had engraved wording expressing transgender and anti-fascist ideology, the person said."
NYT confirms it was a Mauser in .30-06. "The weapon and ammunition are being traced by A.T.F. analysts in West Virginia, but the evidence has not yet led to a person of interest, they said."
Is West Virginia just where they keep all the firearm purchase records, or where the ATF keeps its analysts, or does this imply that there's some link to WV?
Might have been rechambered or might just be an old FN Model 24 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FN_Model_24_and_Model_30
Some sort of (natural?) selection process is going to lead to shooters eventually getting this right, no?
- (Very) old rifle
- Untraceable ammunition?
- No connection to victim
- Well planned 'extraction', few cameras on route, etc.
- No talking about it afterwards (important)
etc.
Staying out of the Altoona McDonald's.
106.last
The records are all on paper and have to be searched by hand. But good luck with this one, there's likely to be no record at all for a rifle that's been in the country for 50 plus years.
Trump looks like he's got some kind of facial paralysis in clips from the 9/11 events this morning.
Ten minutes fucking around on the internet for old rifle info; seems like a good tool for the job. What was the shot taken at, 200 m? Which seems a match for the specs, although I've never used any sort of gun since I was a teenager (with the enthusiasm teenage boys have for that sort of thing).
112: possibly just the sun angle? I don't see it in the Kirk speech he made yesterday (that I just made myself watch).
Until or unless they actually show the text on the cartridges, I'm not putting a lot of stock into how they characterize whatever may be on them. These are the people trying to get sandwich tossing classified as a felony.
110: Sir, we've recovered the cartridges, and... they appear to read "girl dick."
200 yards which is 180m in real money. A half-decent rifle with a competent shooter should get all their rounds within a 9cm circle at that range.
FBI released photos of a person of interest.
114- the right side of his mouth stays drooped like this for the whole 40s clip
https://bsky.app/profile/kevinmkruse.bsky.social/post/3lykwou5tis2v
112, 114: A few others in social media have noted it. A bit droopy as well, but images can be deceptive.
I'm at my parents' house, and my dad has Korean-language news radio on, and they're talking nonstop about Charlie Kirk. Some guy is expounding his theory that Charlie Kirk's support for Israel was weakening, so Netanyahu had him killed with Trump's assistance/consent. This is one of the more insane/illogical conspiracy theories I've ever heard, but it's at least entertaining.
Later reporting suggests that the "leaked" information about writing on the cartridges may be a bunch of bullshit. I don't know ammo or guns but if companies print slogans on their ammo, I wonder if it's something like that. I could easily see a sort of generic "American freedom via guns" message favored by 2nd amendment people get interpreted as something else by the idiots who now staff federal law enforcement.
Surely that shirt is recognizable? Has it been IDed?
https://www.masslive.com/news/2025/09/flags-will-remain-at-half-staff-after-sept-11-heres-why.html
FFS, MA has flags at half mast because of 9/11, but they will remain that way through the 14th because of Kirk's death.
125: I mean, you'd think his face would be recognizable, from those photos.
And another school shooting in Colorado.
You mean in addition to the one yesterday?
127: Presumably a lot more people know the shirt than the person.
Looks kinda like a flag with a bald eagle, but with a view of the earth from space at the bottom? Pretty generic at a a rightwing rally I suppose.
I categorize all t-shirts based on the number of wolves on them. Zero-wolf shirts like that are very common.
I once saw a French guy who had a tattoo that was a bald eagle holding in one talon a dream catcher and in the other talon a Confederate flag.
He was probably an asshole of historical proportions.
Thinking he's an asshole of historic proportions simply because he's French is prejudice.
He should have included a wolf in the tattoo.
129: No.
I hadn't heard about the other one, but I saw some guy's Bluesky post where he was missed that Polis put the flag at half mast for Kirk when there was. Shooting at kid kid's school.
Ah, no earth at the bottom, that's just the curve of the flag blowing in the wind:
https://x.com/MetsYeet/status/1966216816734462287
At some point I was taught that for the death of a sitting president flags are at half mast for 30 days and for former presidents one day. Now conservative media figures get three days?
Inside every shirt design is two wolves.
I'm kinda relieved that superficially he looks like rightwinger. There's nothing about him that visually screams immigrant/trans/commie.
Lockdown at our local state university campus, report of gunshots. Related or just the usual American stochastic violence? Who can say for sure!
Boston. Now they're saying it was a swatting, no actual shots, and there have been many attempted swatting calls across the city today.
He is no longer symmetrical. Or is less symmetrical. Ask not for whom etc. ... it's more the pretence that he's fine I'd say. Getty is a good reference for this, also.
https://media.gettyimages.com/id/2234172516/photo/us-president-donald-trump-attends-a-9-11-observance-ceremony-at-the-national-9-11-pentagon.jpg?s=612x612&w=0&k=20&c=47t0h4rNq0COHxXrxVzJr4FPO74AX6x5pb_CEO4Lfkc=
Charlie Kirk is even less symmetrical.
Somehow I'm on some conservative mailing list and I got a fundraising request today from TPUSA with Kirk's picture on the envelope and "emergency reply form enclosed"
Two law enforcement sources told CNN that agents quickly ran an initial search on one of the markings, including a series of arrows, which analysts initially interpreted to be a connection to the transgender community. That information remains unverified and is still being investigated.
oh no, we actually have a recycler, boys.
I'm tired of the phrase "dumbest timeline" but I don't have an alternative.
I don't go around quoting Monty Python and the Holy Grail often because I thought it was just good, not great. But the "burn her, she's a witch" scene is the best lens with which to understand life right now.
Naval Academy:
The midshipman was sheltering in place on the Annapolis campus when they mistook a member of law enforcement as a threat and hit them with a training weapon, said the source, who was on campus at the time of the lockdown. Police responded by shooting the midshipman. The midshipman was taken to a hospital and is expected to recover, the source said.
And Denver shooter killed himself, but social media seems to indicate Holocaust denial etc. Surprised we are not moment of silencing for him.
Nelson expects every midshipman to recover his best.
Peggy Noonan's contribution to the insanity with a piece in the WSJ. (I know... quelle surprise.)
Charlie Kirk's Assassination Feels Like a Hinge Point
What a disaster for the young. It will forever shape their understanding of politics in America.
It's actually absolutely astonishing. I mean, of course she is a loon of long standing, but projecting that millions of people--most of whom did not even know who the motherfucker was--will be shaped by this!!?? (And if they are it will be because of the media and institutions insane response--moment of silence at the NFL game tonight for instance.)
You know, and not shit like in 157, and insane "preparation" for events like those.
It's the motherfucking Orson Welles War of the Worlds broadcast writ large.
This is one of the more insane/illogical conspiracy theories I've ever heard, but it's at least entertaining.
Can we get a theory that when they said they had the shooter in custody they actually did, but it turned out the shooter wasn't left wing or liberal in their preferred way so they let them go?
The theory can say that they knew they were letting the shooter go or it could say that they were so dumb they thought "no way could someone with a non-liberal ideology be the shooter, we must have the wrong person" and they let them go without knowing who it was.
It seems unlikely this is what actually happened but that's why it's a conspiracy theory.
I was going to blame the ghost of Joseph Smith, thinking he wanted revenge for being chased out of Kirkland. But it turns out he was chased out of Kirtland.
I thought Utah was better known for the Mountain Meadows Massacre.
152: the broad arrow is just the "property of HM" symbol that has been stamped on British military kit for the last four centuries or so, from barrels of salt pork to thermal imaging sights. As for the "trans ideology" possibly someone saw one of these
https://cartridgecollectors.org/headstamp-codes/
on the brass and leapt to a conclusion.
You'd think Utahns would know that brass has headstamps, but these specific ones may well be very, very stupid.
157 presumably Simunition or something like that. Basically paintball for grown ups. Shooting an armed attacker with a round designed to be non lethal seems like a spectacularly bad idea.
