Re: Kicking Small Animals Helps Too

1

Getting enough sleep means not blogging, I'm afraid.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 9:35 AM
horizontal rule
2

My wife and I have talked about this a lot. One of the great things about being young is endless potential and options. But living a good life really does require giving that up at some point. Not that most people don't change throughout life, but good living requires commitment. But it's hard if you really prized all those possibilities.


Posted by: cw | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 9:38 AM
horizontal rule
3

"would have made a world of difference." If it's not impertinent, how?


Posted by: SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 9:44 AM
horizontal rule
4

She's right about the dog. How could you fail to be happier with this fella. No puppyporn there, just pure good dog.


Posted by: Kriston | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 9:56 AM
horizontal rule
5

Well, just for instance, in college I took German, started off doing great, then almost deliberately pulled back. "Whoa! You don't want to be a scholar of German do you? How dreary." Exact same drill with Greek. Also, despite the fact that I loved it, philosophy--always vacillating, in the back of my mind, between that and writing fiction. My undergrad advisor/mentor said to me at one point, when I was a sophomore I think, "Normally, I discourage people from pursuing philosophy, but I think you could have a good career." A couple of years later he said, "What happened to you?" I even have trouble reading books because I worry about the books I'm not reading. Completely fucking nuts. If I had somehow come to understand that committing to something doesn't mean the death of everything else, and that what you commit to is far less important than the commitment itself, well...


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 9:57 AM
horizontal rule
6

First Scot Pollard, now the dog.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 9:58 AM
horizontal rule
7

Nah-uh, you can't ignore the one about having a dog. It's good practice for loving someone, messy and pedestrian as it sometimes is. It's good practice for trusting the loyalty and love you receive. Also, it helps you narrow your options and commit to something. Sheesh. Are you a cat person?

http://civpro.blogs.com/civil_procedure/2005/04/how_to_be_happy.html


Posted by: Scheherazade | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 9:59 AM
horizontal rule
8

If I had somehow come to understand that committing to something doesn't mean the death of everything else

But, to you, and to a certain extent, it does, doesn't it? You have to really forego some things, you can't come back to them later.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 10:00 AM
horizontal rule
9

You have something against cat people?


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 10:00 AM
horizontal rule
10

It's good practice for loving someone

I have a firm and unshakeable belief that dogs aren't people, and aren't practice for anything. I don't even particularly like touching dogs, but don't mind cleaning up person vomit, or whatever else. (And insofar as I am, I am a cat person, but I wouldn't have a cat either.)


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 10:04 AM
horizontal rule
11

You have to really forego some things, you can't come back to them later.

Yes, this is certainly true. What I mean to say is that those parts of you don't have to die. If you don't become a philosopher, for example, your love of philosophy doesn't die, and can still be a source of learning and pleasure.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 10:05 AM
horizontal rule
12

I wish I lived in a country that mandated a minimum of four weeks vacation.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 10:09 AM
horizontal rule
13

Schwartz has an important Durkheimian point--having restrictions, by giving you stability, is important to happiness. And there's another Durkheimian point here too--it's important to value community for community's sake. Even if there's nothing inherently valuable about the community, loving it for its own sake binds people together and gives them a purpose, and that makes them happier.

But (and here I'm taking off from Barbara Ehrenreich on another Durkheimian, Bellah) there's a dark side to this too. Binding together into a community can involve excluding the Other. If we come to see our (inherently no better than anything else) community as Good In Itself, we can see those who don't belong as Bad--after all, they're not part of our Good community. And ironically we can come to be bound together even tighter by excluding and denigrating the Others.

So, everyone with me: Dog people suck.


Posted by: Matt Weiner | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 10:10 AM
horizontal rule
14

Dog people suck! Weiner people rule! Dog people suck! Weiner people rule!


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 10:11 AM
horizontal rule
15

Binding together into a community can involve excluding the Other.

Sure enough, but one thing to keep in mind is the relative porousness or barriers to entry into a community. That's one of the reasons blog communities are so great. Want to join? Leave a comment, see what happens.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 10:14 AM
horizontal rule
16

I thought we established that only biscuit conditionals can rule.


Posted by: Chopper | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 10:16 AM
horizontal rule
17

Want to join? Leave a comment, see what happens.

You'll be ignored for a few weeks of repeated comments until you say something funny enough that a regular will respond.


Posted by: Chopper | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 10:17 AM
horizontal rule
18

Binding together into a community can involve excluding the Other.

There's a place at Fascist Island in Costa Mesa calling itself a club, modelled, I suppose, on the idea of society clubs or whatnot. Except its slogan is "where you belong", or something to that effect. They fundamentally misunderstand that such a club is where I and my kind belong—you don't. And that either makes us better than you or confirms it. A club where everyone belongs: life. Fuck that!


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 10:17 AM
horizontal rule
19

Sure enough, but one thing to keep in mind is the relative porousness or barriers to entry into a community. That's one of the reasons blog communities are so great.

Also one of the reasons blog communities are so fragile.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 10:19 AM
horizontal rule
20

Fragile, how?

(Just ignore chopper.)


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 10:21 AM
horizontal rule
21

If I had me a weiner dog biscuit, I would smother it with gravy.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 10:21 AM
horizontal rule
22

(Just ignore chopper.)

I'm so roneree, so roneree...


Posted by: Chopper | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 10:32 AM
horizontal rule
23

No Chinese jokes.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 10:34 AM
horizontal rule
24

Korean/alien, actually.


Posted by: Chopper | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 10:37 AM
horizontal rule
25

That's a very good dog, Kriston.


Posted by: FL | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 10:42 AM
horizontal rule
26

Dog people suck! Weiner people rule! Dog people suck! Weiner people rule!

What about dog weiner people?


Posted by: Michael | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 10:47 AM
horizontal rule
27

That is a nice looking dog. It looks like a German Shepherd or GS mix. I'd love to get one of those dogs. Someday, when I have cats that aren't so high strung.

I hate to admit this, but I often wonder about people who are not any kind of animal person. It seems so odd that there isn't a single kind of pet a person might like. I guess if you didn't grow up with pets, you're probably less likely to be into them as an adult. I know this opinion is wrong...there should be nothing weird about not being an animal person...and yet it does seem weird.


Posted by: annie | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 10:52 AM
horizontal rule
28

Surely you mean weiner dog people.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 10:55 AM
horizontal rule
29

It seems weird to me to be a pet person.


Posted by: ac | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 10:55 AM
horizontal rule
30

Ogged, I can understand not being a dog person. I'm not particularly interested in or moved by cats. And I am too dismissive of cat owners in generally - I sound like I really don't like them, when in fact I'm just kind of neutral.

What I think always happens that shouldn't happen is that people talk about how much they dig their dog or cat, and then the "other side" jumps in and says "well cats [or dogs, whichever] are like that, too, only better." And I don't think the same characteristics are involved in cat-owning and dog-owning at all. Cats are pretty, they purr, they're soft, they're clean, and they can do as they like, with a lot less care. You needn't come home every night if you have a cat. I suppose there's something to like about that, for those who dig cats.

But cats aren't like dogs, and although perhaps loving a cat feels like loving a dog, I don't think choosing to have one and take care of it involves as many of the steps that make ME happy about owning a dog as cat people like to think. You can't just switch them, depending on your preference, and say "either one works." The preference itself means something, as do the particular burdens and benefits of ownership. Dogs need you, every day, to participate in their eating and their exercise and even their pooping, if you don't have wild woods out your back door. And they love you with a particular playful adoration that's different from most cats I've seen.

Hmmm. I never realized that until I wrote it. I don't have anything against cats or cat people, but it irritates me a tiny bit to have either kind of owner assume that the types of pets are fungible, and that pet ownership is all the same.


Posted by: Scheherazade | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 10:59 AM
horizontal rule
31

Though I suppose I had a horse phase, as girls often do. I used to ride a pony called Rocky, who I was very attached to.


Posted by: ac | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 11:01 AM
horizontal rule
32

Hide the weiner dog before the Apostro finds it!


Posted by: Michael | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 11:08 AM
horizontal rule
33

Yeah, I reckon the opposite scenario would seem weird to a non-pet person. Some folks disparage the devotion people have for their pets. Sometimes I even feel funny about the things I do for my cats when I could spend that time, energy and money helping a needy person.


Posted by: annie | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 11:15 AM
horizontal rule
34

It's one of my least favorite aspects of office life, that I have to hear about people's pets, because it's considered appropriate small talk. I doubt I'd be interested in these people's children, so any talk of pets is too much talk of pets, as far as I'm concerned.


Posted by: ac | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 11:19 AM
horizontal rule
35

any talk of pets is too much talk of pets

My cat can eat a whooooole watermelon!


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 11:21 AM
horizontal rule
36

Heh. Cats, dogs, horses...and I have 2 rats and 2 snakes.

Then again, I'm just strange. ;)


Posted by: Karyn | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 11:23 AM
horizontal rule
37

what about talk about talk about pets?


Posted by: Michael | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 11:23 AM
horizontal rule
38

ac, have I told you lately about Audrey? She's found her feet now, and can roll over, and she's eating solid food, which means that her poop is smelly!


Posted by: Chopper | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 11:24 AM
horizontal rule
39

Are they always the same two rats, or do you sort of cycle through rats depending on the snakes' eating habits?


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 11:25 AM
horizontal rule
40

Karyn is strange, but luckily she's hot.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 11:25 AM
horizontal rule
41

[geek]Same two rats though I do have such a morbid sense of humor I named one of them Menchi after the "Emergency Food Supply" in Excel Saga (yes, and I'm a fangirl to boot)[/geek]


Posted by: Karyn | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 11:27 AM
horizontal rule
42

Can we not pretend that dog people, cat people, and non-pet people are all equivalent? The hierarchy is as follows, from greatest decency/normalcy down: (1) dog people, (2) non-pet people, (3) cat people. I'm a non-pet person. Hard experience has taught me not to get intimately involved with cat people.


Posted by: SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 11:37 AM
horizontal rule
43

Rats and snakes are good pets. My dad recently got two russian tortoises and named them Boris and Natasha.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 11:40 AM
horizontal rule
44

SCMT: Really? There are freaks of either persuasion (e.g., my Mom: crazy cat lady; Sharon Osborne: crazy dog lady). Those of who trends toward normal relations with our pets are just fine. Nonpet people, on the other hand, are dead inside.


Posted by: Chopper | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 11:44 AM
horizontal rule
45

Fuck to oboe: Those of us who trend toward.


Posted by: Chopper | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 11:44 AM
horizontal rule
46

I find single women with one or two cats sexy. The cat adds a bit of mystery and I think: what are her feline traits? But more than two reverses the trend.

I find no such correlation with single women and dogs. Dog ownership might indicate positive traits, but it does nothing for my libido.

I am a freak.


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 11:49 AM
horizontal rule
47

On the other point, about keeping your options open, I'd disagree. I don't think it's the happiest way to be, but seriously committing to the wrong thing can be pretty devastating.


Posted by: ac | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 11:51 AM
horizontal rule
48

I am looking for advice concerning a vaguely on-topic problem. Everyone here was so good with L.'s college dilemma that I figured I'd give it a shot.

I'm thinking of quitting my job because I miss my cats too much when I'm at work. The problem is that the only way I can think of to make up for the lost income is to have the cats start appearing in television commercials. But, of course, that would defeat the whole purpose of quitting my job!

What should I do? Should I get new cats, who will then be the money-makers? Or should I send one out on auditions and keep the other one at home with me? If so, which one?

Here's a picture of my two cats, in case that information helps:

http://www.ratemykitten.com/ratemy/kitten?image=199408

Thanks!


Posted by: pjs | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 11:51 AM
horizontal rule
49

With a problem like that, the only solution is to set your cats free and join them in the wild, foraging for food.

Rat tastes pretty much like chicken.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 11:54 AM
horizontal rule
50

I find single women with one or two cats sexy. The cat adds a bit of mystery and I think: what are her feline traits?

You, my friend, are headed for Big Trouble. But then, that's what youth is for.


Posted by: SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 11:57 AM
horizontal rule
51

The problem with Chopper's schema is that not all dog-people are equivalent. You have small-dog people, medium-dog people, and big-dog people. Then there's cuddly-dog people and aggresive-crazy-dog people. Then there's also cute-dog people, and hemerroid-ugly dog (poodles) people.


Posted by: Michael | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 11:58 AM
horizontal rule
52

You forgot weiner dog people! And Poland.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 12:00 PM
horizontal rule
53

LB,

C'est pas possible. If rats were tasty, the cajuns here would eat them. Or, failing that, the French would.


Posted by: Michael | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 12:01 PM
horizontal rule
54

Michael: Point taken, although Standard Poodles sans "poodle cut" are quite attractive, in my opinion. Ugly=English Bulldog.


Posted by: Chopper | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 12:01 PM
horizontal rule
55

To follow SCMT's pet schema, I'd say the commitment one, in descending order, is (1) committing to good things/people, (2) keeping options open, (3) committing to bad things/people.

I say this with my married-to-the-alcoholic story in mind.


Posted by: ac | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 12:03 PM
horizontal rule
56

Is it really such a big leap from nutria, Michael?


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 12:04 PM
horizontal rule
57

Speaking gastronomically, I'm thinking:

1) Giant guinea pigs

2) Nutria

3) Rats


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 12:06 PM
horizontal rule
58

ac- Even with the details of that married to the alcoholic story burned into my mind, I still want to ask how sure you are your friend would have been better off keeping their options open.


Posted by: washerdreyer | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 12:06 PM
horizontal rule
59

SCMT -- tell me about it. Yet I am drawn to the siamese perched atop the Tivo.

I have a particular distaste for very small dogs.


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 12:08 PM
horizontal rule
60

Very small dogs are the worst, because so pathetic: clearly they realize that they would be better off as cats, and are trying to achieve cathood, but their doggy nature will out.

I imagine the plights of a very small dog and a pre-op transsexual are similar.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 12:11 PM
horizontal rule
61

If she'd been less committed to him, she would have broken up with him a long time ago. She desperately wants to have kids, is now getting divorced, could have used that time to meet someone else and settle down, since that's what she wanted to do. She felt a sense of obligation to this person, in part because people seem to value commitment for its own sake, it may mean that she doesn't have kids. Which would be pretty sad for her, since she wants them so much.


Posted by: ac | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 12:11 PM
horizontal rule
62

ac, that's precisely the story of my wife's first marriage. Now we have a four-month-old son. Keep hope alive.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 12:13 PM
horizontal rule
63

I always feel nervous around very small dogs because I can't get over the paranoia that I'm going to step on the living puffball. And I wear heavy boots.


Posted by: Karyn | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 12:14 PM
horizontal rule
64

I think you give pre-op transexuals a bad name. Little dogs are like miniature fascists without arms, the very picture of impotent hostility.


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 12:15 PM
horizontal rule
65

the yellow bastard is apt, if he were smaller and couldn't talk.


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 12:18 PM
horizontal rule
66

Also, long-haired cat people are different from short-haired cat people. Long-haired cats are total uggos.


Posted by: Chopper | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 12:21 PM
horizontal rule
67

re: commitment. I would agree with ac's rankings, and add that, ex ante, it is often difficult to differentiate between groups a) and c). But, given enough time, we all feel like we have to choose something, and what we choose often comes down more to timing than to the substance of the thing. So hopefully our choices are at least ok, but sometimes they are horrible, and there is no way to prevent all of the potentially horrible choices ex ante except by chance.

And I like chicks with cats, but not too many.


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 12:28 PM
horizontal rule
68

Did I kill this thread with 64, because I thought it was a particularly interesting use of language.

guess I'll do my job.


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 12:30 PM
horizontal rule
69

sorry it took me so long to respond, Michael Erik Dyson is on a roll on NPR.

Apo, thanks for the link, I had no idea about that movement. I don't think nutria are as ugly as rats; they just have ugly tails. Certainly better lookin' than possums, and no uglier than squirrels, which are both eaten here, though not in restaurants.

Anyway, yeah, I'd eat nutria before I ate rat. Maybe in a bleu cheese sause.


Posted by: Michael | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 12:30 PM
horizontal rule
70

Speaking of squirrels, in high school I wanted to design a poster featuring a cartoon yellow duck in the center (realistic aside from the color) and the words

      DON'T                             EAT

DUCK                                           BRAINS

around.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 12:35 PM
horizontal rule
71

because they won't fill you up and you'll still be hungary.


Posted by: Michael | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 12:42 PM
horizontal rule
72

And THAT reminds me of Tom Lehrer...

"All the world seems in tune on a spring afternoon, when we're poisoning pigeons in the park..."


Posted by: Austro | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 12:43 PM
horizontal rule
73

Seriously, don't eat squirrel brains.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 12:45 PM
horizontal rule
74

What say you to hateful small yippy dogs, Sherry?

But your point about the differences between cats and dogs is well taken. Not the same at all, and neither are the people who prefer one to the other.

Personally, and it's my blog, so I can personally away, I'm not just a non-pet person, I'm a no living thing person: no plants either. Y'all are crazy.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 12:45 PM
horizontal rule
75

A bit more seriously, a lot of this is culture bound, of course. Iranians think it's simultaneously hilarious and dirty that Americans keep pets. When we hear (probably apocryphal) stories about Iranians who have acquired pets, eyebrows are raised, and meaningful glances exchanged.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 12:47 PM
horizontal rule
76

Dead inside.


Posted by: Chopper | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 12:48 PM
horizontal rule
77

I have a nice little collection of plants and herbs. WTF is wrong with you, Ogged? Why do you hate life?


Posted by: Michael | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 12:53 PM
horizontal rule
78

my plant dream, btw, is to have a bonsai forest.


Posted by: Michael | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 12:53 PM
horizontal rule
79

The great thing about cats is that they will bite you. One of my friends whose family had several cats had one named Dorothy or Doris or Barbara or something like that that would let you pet it, then grab your hand and jaw it. So adorable.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 12:54 PM
horizontal rule
80

What you need, Ogged, is a low-maintenance pet that doesn't require much attention. And then you could totally refute Chopper's "dead inside" theory.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 12:55 PM
horizontal rule
81

He likes life, if it is at least theoretically capable of quoting Nietsche at him!


Posted by: Austro | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 12:55 PM
horizontal rule
82

You can learn a lot about life from cats.


Posted by: Michael | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 12:56 PM
horizontal rule
83

Apo, ogged is too thin already. Skin and bones. His mother must be very worried.

Bonsai trees are neat. I used to take care of one name Tree-san.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 12:57 PM
horizontal rule
84

Tree sans height?


Posted by: Austro | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 12:58 PM
horizontal rule
85

Ben, if you're interested, my (gf's) cat would be interested in biting you. Shall we arrange things? Do you require a dowery?


Posted by: Michael | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 12:58 PM
horizontal rule
86

I think i ll apologise for that now and go sit in the corner again


Posted by: Austro | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 12:58 PM
horizontal rule
87

This is just a biting, Michael; I don't think a dowry will be necessary.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 12:59 PM
horizontal rule
88

austro will be ignored for making a bad pun not involving a shaggy dog story.


Posted by: Michael | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 1:00 PM
horizontal rule
89

Ben, ok, I have penciled you in for a biting on Thurs. Kitty looks forward to it.


Posted by: Michael | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 1:02 PM
horizontal rule
90

Hedgehogs. It's all about the hedgehogs.


Posted by: profgrrrrl | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 1:02 PM
horizontal rule
91

before or after the nutria dans un sauce au fromage blue?


Posted by: Michael | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 1:03 PM
horizontal rule
92

Michael, how will i notice?


Posted by: Austro | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 1:04 PM
horizontal rule
93

It's always about food with profgrrrrl.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 1:04 PM
horizontal rule
94

Enough about Ron Jeremy, pg. We get it. You're smitten.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 1:04 PM
horizontal rule
95

I've got a girlfriend who bites. But I'm not lending her out.


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 1:04 PM
horizontal rule
96

I didn't mean that how it came out. She likes to bite hands and such.


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 1:06 PM
horizontal rule
97

My sister was bitten by a moose once...


Posted by: Chopper | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 1:06 PM
horizontal rule
98

pg: if you're unfamiliar with the name, I'd reccomend against investigating while at work.


Posted by: Chopper | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 1:07 PM
horizontal rule
99

Austro, aren't you british? Aren't you people used to being ignored by Americans yet?


Posted by: Michael | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 1:07 PM
horizontal rule
100

I think we've reached the missing shaggy dog story...


Posted by: Austro | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 1:08 PM
horizontal rule
101

Mostly, Michael, we're grateful for it too.


Posted by: Austro | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 1:09 PM
horizontal rule
102

How sweet, Chopper thinks PG is an innocent lady.


Posted by: Michael | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 1:09 PM
horizontal rule
103

fromage bleu, no?

møøse bites can be very serious.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 1:11 PM
horizontal rule
104

I've heard her giggle--I know she's not innocent.


Posted by: Chopper | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 1:11 PM
horizontal rule
105

I'd now be curious to know whether Ben likes being bitten by girls.


Posted by: ac | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 1:15 PM
horizontal rule
106

oui, je ne peux pas taper.


Posted by: Michael | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 1:16 PM
horizontal rule
107

ac, just let me know if you're in Chicago any time soon.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 1:18 PM
horizontal rule
108

Ben, she's seeing someone and obsessed with another, remember? But the ladies seem to find you charming...


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 1:19 PM
horizontal rule
109

If you had answered in the form, "I do if ac is in Chicago any time soon," that would have been a biscuit conditional, right?


Posted by: washerdreyer | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 1:20 PM
horizontal rule
110

No, I think it's the converse of one.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 1:21 PM
horizontal rule
111

Pleasantly noisy in here, isn't it?

Re: hateful yippy dogs -- not so much. They are best suited as snacks for larger animals.

A cat-loving friend likes to assure me, "Your dog is one of the rare, good dogs." I'm torn about whether to believe that -- because I'm not inclined to agree that most dogs aren't good, but I am inclined to agree that my particular dog is far superior to most other dogs, such that even cat people can perceive how terrific she is.


Posted by: Scheherazade | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 1:22 PM
horizontal rule
112

Just idle curiosity, I assure you.


Posted by: ac | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 1:22 PM
horizontal rule
113

I meant inverse.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 1:22 PM
horizontal rule
114

never explain, ac, the hole just gets deeper.


Posted by: Austro | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 1:24 PM
horizontal rule
115

At the Mineshaft.


Posted by: Chopper | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 1:24 PM
horizontal rule
116

Sorry, reflex. That reall does stretch the definition of Mineshaft a little far, no?


Posted by: Chopper | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 1:25 PM
horizontal rule
117

actually I found that to be one of the better "at the mineshaft" comments


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 1:26 PM
horizontal rule
118

I find the definition of a converse biscuit more intriguing to be honest.


Posted by: Austro | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 1:27 PM
horizontal rule
119

I've chosen something now, albeit with lots of fussing. I'm going to Tulane.


Posted by: L. | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 1:27 PM
horizontal rule
120

Really? Mine has the same from as Weiner's prototype here.


Posted by: washerdreyer | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 1:28 PM
horizontal rule
121

very good L. spend an apprpriate amount of time in the french quarter.


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 1:30 PM
horizontal rule
122

But I might say, truthfully, "I do if you're biting" even though I don't enjoy being bitten by girls in the general case.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 1:31 PM
horizontal rule
123

or (if you spend too much time) you'll end up like me, unable to spell appropriate


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 1:31 PM
horizontal rule
124

bw likes to do the biting himself


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 1:32 PM
horizontal rule
125

Biscuit conditional: If you want X, then X are available.

Inverse biscuit: If X is available, then I want X.

109, ""I do if ac is in Chicago any time soon," looks to me like an inverse biscuit.

and to L.: Dude! Everyone I've known who went to Tulane had a wonderful time. You really didn't have any bad options, but Tulane is a good one.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 1:34 PM
horizontal rule
126

Congrats, L.! Enjoy some nutria for us, won't you?


Posted by: Chopper | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 1:35 PM
horizontal rule
127

I'm touched.


Posted by: ac | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 1:35 PM
horizontal rule
128

Truthfully.


Posted by: ac | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 1:36 PM
horizontal rule
129

He enjoys being bitten by specific girls, it seems. Your common, or garden, girl however can bite all she wants; he will not enjoy it. So now we need the class of specific girls to be better defined and we shall make progress. Tho goodness knows wheretowards.


Posted by: Austro | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 1:36 PM
horizontal rule
130

Re 125: doesn't the biscuit conditional specifically leave out the "then?"

It's more: IF X, THIS.


Posted by: Chopper | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 1:38 PM
horizontal rule
131

I was looking at it as a statement which seems to have the form of the truth value of the antecedent depending on the truth value of the consequent, but where that can't actually be the case.

So, whether or not Ben likes being bitten can't be dependent on ac's presence in Chicago, therefore biscuit conditional under the idea of them I'd formed. But maybe I was overly generalizing.

Or, what Chopper just said.

Sounds like a good decision, L.


Posted by: washerdreyer | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 1:42 PM
horizontal rule
132

I don't want to come back in (from teaching logic) JUST to explain biscuit conditionals, so I'll say this, in response to ac's 34: A friend used to have exactly the same feeling, and would berate me for telling cat stories. Then she had to take care of my cat for a week. Twice in the first three days she e-mailed me cat stories. Later on she said that she had been listening to her officemates drivel on about their pets, and was waiting impatiently so she could interrupt with an Allie story. "WHAT HAVE YOU DONE?" she said.

So, beware! Your brain can be taken over too.

This picture is from the beginning of that visit (warning: I am visible in this picture).


Posted by: Matt Weiner | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 1:53 PM
horizontal rule
133

Devil cat!

Devil cat!


Posted by: Chopper | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 1:55 PM
horizontal rule
134

But you haven't explained the biscuit at all!

And the same thing happened to my father, thirty years ago. A beat-up tomcat staggered into our backdoor. Mom wanted to take him to the vet, and Dad didn't want to take in a stray, especially with little kids in the house.

By two weeks later, he was calling home from work, asking about the cat: "What is my son doing now?"


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 1:58 PM
horizontal rule
135

OK, so the deal with the biscuit conditional is that the antecedent isn't actually relevant to the truth of the consequent. "There are biscuits in the sideboard if you want some"--of course, there are biscuits in the sideboard, whether you want any or not.

"I like being bitten by girls if ac is in Chicago anytime soon" is a biscuit conditional if the speaker likes being bitten by girls anyway, and is only mentioning the possibility in case ac is looking for something to do in Chicago. It isn't if the speaker would only enjoy being bitten by ac--then ac's presence in Chicago is relevant to the truth of "I like being bitten by girls."

While typing that I thought--would any NYC-area reader be interested in seeing Misha Mengelberg and George Lewis Thursday at the Stone? I can only make the 10 pm show (I'm flying in to Newark that night). I'll probably have to grab a quick bite to eat before that, if anyone wants to meet for some hurried ingestion on the Lower East Side (that's a biscuit conditional too). Details on my transport trauma here.

I realize that that was not the best juxtaposition. Don't worry, won't try nothin'.


Posted by: Matt Weiner | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 2:23 PM
horizontal rule
136

OK, looking over LB's definition of "inverse biscuit," that's actually also probably a biscuit conditional. "I want biscuits if there are any" frequently means "I want biscuits"--which is only relevant if there are any. Though it could be a statement of adjusting your ends to reality: "I want biscuits if there are any, but if there aren't I don't mind--I will proceed happily on my way."

Of course, most of us are probably more likely to express the reverse inverse biscuit conditional in the non-biscuity sense. Like Morrissey, we want the ones we can't have.

Yes, I am aware that I killed the thread by suggesting a real-life meeting. (Cue puppy dog look.)


Posted by: Matt Weiner | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 3:04 PM
horizontal rule
137

Awww. Actually, I was thinking that it sounded like fun, but I'm having one of those weeks where I'm pretty much chained to my desk. Actually, most weeks are like that.

There's a reason I comment here all the time -- this job is completely not compatible with social interaction with other human beings.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 3:23 PM
horizontal rule
138

Too bad. Er, is your sister free?


Posted by: Matt Weiner | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 3:24 PM
horizontal rule
139

I should perhaps make clear that that's a joke. Stupid real name.


Posted by: Matt Weiner | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 3:26 PM
horizontal rule
140

She will, in fact, kick my ass severely if she ever figures out that she's become a running gag on a blog she doesn't read. (And yes, I figured that you were joking.)


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 3:29 PM
horizontal rule
141

Similarly, my exam schedule means no Thursday night out this week.


Posted by: washerdreyer | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 3:31 PM
horizontal rule
142

I am truly traumatized by the Ron Jeremy connection. I did know who he is. But beyond that, no, I did not know.

I'm a woman. I read porn. I don't watch it. Duh.


Posted by: profgrrrrl | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 3:32 PM
horizontal rule
143

But was it so much a joke that if her sister were free, you'd say no?


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 3:40 PM
horizontal rule
144

I really don't want a link or anything, but looking back over the thread, the only interpretation I can place on your last post is that porn exists in which Ron Jeremy interacts with hedgehogs. Please tell me I'm mistaken.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 3:40 PM
horizontal rule
145

Of course not!


Posted by: Matt Weiner | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 3:40 PM
horizontal rule
146

Er, to 143, I regret to say.


Posted by: Matt Weiner | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 3:41 PM
horizontal rule
147

Not that I know that it doesn't apply to 144 as well. But, as the three of you who care might be aware, I get to say things even if I don't know them.


Posted by: Matt Weiner | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 3:42 PM
horizontal rule
148

Shows your good sense.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 3:43 PM
horizontal rule
149

LB, thankfully no. It is a nickname.


Posted by: profgrrrrl | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 3:43 PM
horizontal rule
150

I feel much better now.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 3:44 PM
horizontal rule
151

148 was to ?


Posted by: Matt Weiner | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 3:44 PM
horizontal rule
152

145.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 3:44 PM
horizontal rule
153

182.


Posted by: SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 3:46 PM
horizontal rule
154

Re 111

Pleasantly noisy, yes that's us. Glad to hear your thoughts on yippy dogs; sound judgment. I'm willing to believe that if I were at all inclined to like dogs, I could like your dog.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 3:46 PM
horizontal rule
155

Friendly.


Posted by: SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 3:48 PM
horizontal rule
156

Precisely.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 3:52 PM
horizontal rule
157

You know, MW, this saturday and sunday in Chicago there's a whole hell of a lot of AACM stuff going on, including this, involving Lewis:


* AACM Fire Trio - Jodie Christian, Reggie Nicholson, Ari Brown; George Lewis & Ann Ward; 8 Bold Souls w/ Fred Anderson; Nicole Mitchell's Black Earth Ensemble w/ James Newton & Dee Alexander; Douglas Ewart, Mwata Bowden, Edward Wilkerson, Rita Warford, Oliver Lake; Isaiah Jackson, Corey Wilkes, Vincent Davis, Art 'Turk' Burton; Great Black Music Ensemble w/ Joseph Jarman & Oliver Lake

7:30 at the MCA - 220 E. Chicago - 3122802660 ($20)


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 3:52 PM
horizontal rule
158

Almost puppyish, to keep this on topic.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 3:53 PM
horizontal rule
159

Lord knows we can't go getting off topic.


Posted by: Chopper | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 3:54 PM
horizontal rule
160

to keep this on topic

LizardBreath is bann...aw, hell.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 3:54 PM
horizontal rule
161

I understand people have gottem banned for that.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 3:55 PM
horizontal rule
162

Ben--but I'll still be in New Jersey. Well, not Sunday. Hmm.


Posted by: Matt Weiner | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 4:01 PM
horizontal rule
163

One of these days I'm actually going to believe you when I get banned, and my billable hours will skyrocket.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 4:02 PM
horizontal rule
164

Wait--all those people are playing the Sunday concert? I count seven acts. How will they all fit on? Anyway, I am so there. Class should be interesting Monday.


Posted by: Matt Weiner | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 4:04 PM
horizontal rule
165

I just assumed that your time here was being billed to some hated client. Try it.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 4:05 PM
horizontal rule
166

As near as I can tell, all those people are playing the Sunday concert. I have no idea how they're going to manage it.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 4:09 PM
horizontal rule
167

Literally? It's big tobacco.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 4:13 PM
horizontal rule
168

Now see, if big tobacco is paying for commenters time here, that's striking a blow for the forces of good, no?


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 4:18 PM
horizontal rule
169

'


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 4:18 PM
horizontal rule
170

Eesh. {He says, a largely non- but former pack a day- smoker}


Posted by: Chopper | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 4:18 PM
horizontal rule
171

I have many and complicated rationalizations for this, but they all sound much better after I've had a couple of drinks.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 4:20 PM
horizontal rule
172

The only rationalizations you need are Sally and Mander. As for the rest, fuck'em if they can't take a joke.


Posted by: SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 4:23 PM
horizontal rule
173

Take a pew, LB. What'll you have?


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 4:23 PM
horizontal rule
174

In this context, I've been thinking of the little guy as Newt.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 4:24 PM
horizontal rule
175

And a Bushmills, water back, is mine. Thanks.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 4:24 PM
horizontal rule
176

I worked for several years for a business process reengineering consultancy whose methodology I thought be extraordinarily suspect, but the money was good.


Posted by: Chopper | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 4:25 PM
horizontal rule
177

If that helps.


Posted by: Chopper | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 4:26 PM
horizontal rule
178

"water back"?


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 4:27 PM
horizontal rule
179

Soon I will be teaching ethics to accounting students in Texas. I figure if the past is any indication of the future I'll have the chance to see an alum doing a perp walk within 20 years.

Also, I applied for a Bradley foundation-sponsored job once, and I didn't get it.


Posted by: Matt Weiner | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 4:28 PM
horizontal rule
180

She drinks her whisk(e)y neat, but with a glass of water on the side.


Posted by: Chopper | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 4:28 PM
horizontal rule
181

Jeebus, ogged. Get out and live a little.


Posted by: SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 4:28 PM
horizontal rule
182

Accompanied by a glass of water, rather than mixed with water.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 4:29 PM
horizontal rule
183

Shit. I was waiting for 182 for the last 45 minutes.


Posted by: Chopper | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 4:29 PM
horizontal rule
184

I thought "neat" meant water on the side.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 4:30 PM
horizontal rule
185

Neat = Straight up


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 4:31 PM
horizontal rule
186

I could go for a thread of commenters listing their current favorite drink, though I suspect w-lfs-n will claim he drinks motor oil or something equally appetizing.

Knob Creek (or other bourbon. depending on availability), rocks.


Posted by: washerdreyer | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 4:31 PM
horizontal rule
187

Definitions here.


Posted by: Chopper | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 4:33 PM
horizontal rule
188

Whiskey—Bushmills is Irish.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 4:35 PM
horizontal rule
189

Ok, thanks.

Macallan, 12 year. (On those rare occasions that I drink.)


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 4:35 PM
horizontal rule
190

Depends on the weather/situation--

If hot: a vodka tonic with lemon, not lime.

If cold: Lagavulin.

If pre-dinner: Grey Goose Martini, very dry, half dirty.

Or beer. Beer is good.


Posted by: Chopper | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 4:35 PM
horizontal rule
191

"Dirty"?


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 4:37 PM
horizontal rule
192

Macallan is nice -- I just got lit up on a bottle of the 18 year old at a seder. (Which, come to think of it, should have been verboten, shouldn't it? But it was a prety low-key seder, kosherness wise.)


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 4:37 PM
horizontal rule
193

A splash of the olive brine. I find that if you just say "dirty," the bartender overdoes it.


Posted by: Chopper | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 4:37 PM
horizontal rule
194

Dirty = with some juice from the olive bottle.

You don't hang out in bars much, do you?


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 4:38 PM
horizontal rule
195

I've been to bars since college! Three or four times, I think.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 4:39 PM
horizontal rule
196

My seder was all kosher wine. I would have killed for good Scotch.


Posted by: washerdreyer | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 4:40 PM
horizontal rule
197

As the "cry, cry, masturbate, cry" thread established, ogged doesn't hang out much.


Posted by: SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 4:40 PM
horizontal rule
198

The closest I come to motor oil is ouzo. (The closest I have come to motor oil is a tie between raki and tsipouro.)

If pressed, AOTW I would call an Aviation my favorite drink, though I use different proportions (2oz gin, 1/2oz each lemon juice & maraschino), though I recently went through a bottle of Lillet and liked it lots.

If pre-dinner: Grey Goose Martini, very dry, half dirty.

Just be honest with yourself and do a shot of vodka followed by a shot of brine, mang.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 4:43 PM
horizontal rule
199

And I really want to get my hands on one of the Clear Creek eaux de vie, after having had some of the pear in a restaurant.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 4:44 PM
horizontal rule
200

A vodka martini is a sipping drink, and if made correctly tastes almost like water.

If I'm doing shots, I'll drink tequila, because really what's the point of doing shots if you're not drinking tequila?


Posted by: Chopper | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 4:46 PM
horizontal rule
201

A vodka martini is a sipping drink, and if made correctly tastes almost like water.

So ... drink some water!


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 4:53 PM
horizontal rule
202

If I had a dog that crapped silver dollars, I'd drink Barolos and Brunellos all the livelong day. When I have a mixed drink, it's a gin and tonic.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 5:40 PM
horizontal rule
203

It should taste almost like water, but kick you right between the eyes.

Alternate answer: Why don't you drink some Kool Aid?


Posted by: Chopper | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 5:41 PM
horizontal rule
204

mim's gin. lots a ice, lime, and tonic is where it's, as they say, at.


Posted by: Michael | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 5:56 PM
horizontal rule
205

I've been to bars since college! Three or four times, I think.

Oooh. So let's go to a bar on our date!


Posted by: profgrrrrl | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 5:59 PM
horizontal rule
206

Let's definitely not.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 6:03 PM
horizontal rule
207

I've been to bars since college! Three or four times, I think.

Thinking about it, this goes a fair way to explaining the paucity of your sins.


Posted by: SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 6:06 PM
horizontal rule
208

Yeah. Loosen up Oggy, baby. You're just too damn tight.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 05- 3-05 7:28 PM
horizontal rule
209

We've already established that I'm a girl drink drunk; but when I don't want to get drunk in a hurry, I like beer. Or gin'n'tonic.

If I were drinking someone's extremely good Scotch or wine, I'd be afraid that I'd laugh at the wrong time.


Posted by: Matt Weiner | Link to this comment | 05- 4-05 7:38 AM
horizontal rule
210

I feel I should say, given my vampire/biting remarks, that I'm partial to the Bloody Mary.

But I'm more of a gin & tonic type.


Posted by: ac | Link to this comment | 05- 4-05 7:45 AM
horizontal rule