This (scroll down for photos) actually looks pretty interesting, but they were only giving tours in Flemish the day that I was there. This, on the other hand, isn't really worth seeing.
Sorry, I have no useful, non-cloacal advice.
Wow, my own dedicated Unfogged post! This almost makes up for never getting banned!
But um, I'm not sure how, but um, somehow the title of the post ended up as "Weenie". Surely a mistake, non?
"Weenie" is a Dutch term for immigrants and resident aliens.
Flemish. They speak Flemish in Belgium.
And French, and Dutch, and even a bit of German.
Eb, I was just explaining ogged's presumptive rationale. You got a problem with it, take it up with him.
I spent 3 weeks in Liege, but visited Brussels.
The girls in Brussel's are friendly. As far as French goes, the Brusselians dialect is different enough from French French that I struggled with it, but the people I talked with were very nice and switched to a, more formal I suppose, manner of speaking which I understood.
Brussels gauffres are different from Liege gauffres. This you should know. Brussels gauffres are rectangular, whereas the Liege variety are irregular. This is not unimportant.
Also, best to call the language "Flemish" and not "Dutch."
Trappist beer is heaven. My favorite was the Rochefort.
"Samurai" sauce on your frites is nasty. Do not attempt, no matter how bored you get of mayonnaise. In fact, I would avoid all other sauces but mayo.
If you go to Liege, I can suggest a few places to visit.
My paternal grandparents were in the foreign service. My dad was born in New Zealand, lived in Iceland and Jamaica, and visited a staggering number of other places. He's got affectionate stories to tell about every place he went and the people he met there.
Except Belgium. He lived there for several years, and he says the Belgians are assholes. Particularly the French-speaking ones.
Anyway, enjoy your trip.
Anyway, Mitch, why the move, if you don't mind my asking? I though you were running a bakery in NYC, which I alwasy thought was really freakin' cool.
That's probably just due to the long history of cultural conflict and border clashes between Belgium and New Zealand.
9: Ah, the belgians were fun. One thing, though. Malheursement, Belgium, Liege at least, has some of the worst coffee in Europe. And some of the pricier. It's drinkable, but, if you're expecting good European coffee, you will be disappointed. Brussles may be different, since they are known for their cuisine.
11 was to 9. I knew I should have quoted!
As for 10: the missus-to-be has been accepted to do an all-expenses-paid Doctorate in European Union and Human Rights Law at Leuven (sp?). We've tried living on different continents in the past and didn't like that arrangement at all, no sir, so I'm following along after.
So I'll have to check out the baking scene in Brussels, or else maybe start practicing law again, or teach, or something, we'll figure it out. Oh and I'm not running the bakery in NYC, but I am second in command (of two bakers), and as of next week will be head baker.
Oh, she'll be at Leuven? I know people who went there. I'll pass along your question.
Surprisingly, the baking scene in Liege was fairly pitiful. I didn't really notice in Brussels. There's a chain bakery, Point Chaud, and it's OK, but man is it a far cry from Paris.
Geez, people. The folks I know who went to Leuven loved it, and kept telling me to go.
Thanks for all the legwork, ogged, you're a star.
And I'm just going to refuse to listen to all the haters (or at least the hatery parts of their posts; thanks for the non-hatery parts, Michael!)
As far as French goes, the Brusselians dialect is different enough from French French that I struggled with it, but the people I talked with were very nice and switched to a, more formal I suppose, manner of speaking which I understood.
Did you bust out any Cajun on them? Oh and I'm glad to know the girls in Brussels are friendly, but did you not see the part about that I'm going there with my fiancee?
Oh, and a pitiful baking scene just means there will be more room for my (yes awesome) baking talent to shine. I will not be dissuaded from my excitement at the impending move!
"Weenie" is a Dutch term for immigrants and resident aliens.
Did it orignally refer only to diplomats from the Austrian capital, but then it took on a wider application to resident aliens in general?
I'm glad to know the girls in Brussels are friendly, but did you not see the part about that I'm going there with my fiancee?
Always have a backup plan...
Always have a backup plan...
I'm just relieved to know that (apparently, since Michael mentioned only the girls) the boys in Brussels aren't friendly.
18: that's what i meant to imply, Mitch!
did you not see the part about that I'm going there with my fiancee?
I don't make presumptions about your personal life.
Did you bust out any Cajun on them?
I don't actually speak Cajun, (i'm not a resident Louisianan, but I should learn!) but the points of comparison did make interesting conversation topics. We did try southern-fried French, and they understood that fine.
I'm not tryin to be hatery, I'm just a bit of a food snob, I suppose. And, believe me, I was quite happy eating over there. Galler chocolate is...is...I don't know, but it's fucking good. And the cheese! I wanna go back.
I'm just relieved to know that (apparently, since Michael mentioned only the girls) the boys in Brussels aren't friendly.
Er, no, didn't mean to imply that. They're quite friendly to the ladyfolk. It's kinda like stereoptypical construction workers all around you. Have fun.
I should point out that I was with girls in their late teens to early twenties. It may be different for the 30-somethings. (I think that's your age-range, at least)
Re 5 and 8: As late as the 18th century, "Dutch" was divided between High and Low Dutch; High being what we now call German, low being Dutch. I'd like to think that's one reason why no one knows when or whether to say Flemish or Dutch. There's something significant about Belgium and Lingua Franca that I can't recall but nevertheless probably has some bearing on the lingual tapestry of the place (but little, admittedly, to the conversation).
I'd like to think that's one reason why no one knows when or whether to say Flemish or Dutch.
To my understanding, it's more of a political differanciation than a linguistic one.
Mitch, how did you become head baker so fast? Did you have a pre-lawyering life as a baker, or what?
I can't help much with Brussels. I don't even like the sprouts.
Very, very exciting.
Never been to Belgium. But what I do know is... don't miss the bike racing. I suspect once April comes, you'll be just fine if you know the names Eddy Merckx and Tom Boonen.
And maybe revisit that old frites thread. You'll want to think about condiments.
http://zapatopi.net/belgium.html
27! Welcome back! Ogged was missing you.
i've been to brussels 3 times, all for less than a week, and i don't speak any flemish, but my french is pretty good. and i got around just fine. of course, i was around a lot of touristy places, so a ton of the people spoke english anyway.
and the frites, oh, the frites.
Re: Flemish v. Dutch, wikipedia seems to have some good info. It actually looks like the linguistic situation in Belgium is quite varied, complicated, and interesting. Can't wait to start observing.
Mitch, how did you become head baker so fast? Did you have a pre-lawyering life as a baker, or what?
Mainly it was being in the right place at the right time (with some relevant skills). It's a small outfit (only me and the head baker), and the head baker is heading back to school (PhD in Philosophy, naturally (in North Carolina)). I've been an avid home baker (and cook generally) for years, and I enjoy hosting largish-scale dinner parties and suchlike. Since the bakery is currently a small wholesale operation and the product is very artisinal, those home skills translated easily into production on a larger scale. Plus I really enjoy it and I'm conscientious, dedicated, a hard worker, detail-oriented, etc. and get along well both with the head baker and the founder.
Speaking of which, I hope said founder isn't an unfogged reader. I won't see her till Monday to tell her and we literally just found out yesterday about the opportunity, and it was totally out of the blue and not actively sought after (the original plan was for the future missus to maybe apply for a Doctoral program somewhere in the EU to start in Fall 2006).
And hey, girl27 is back! I was afraid maybe it was the fact that I implied she was a shrew that had driven her away (it was probably just latent aggression on my part that she's so obviously a much better porn-movie-title-generator than I, or anyone for that matter). And now it's my situation that brought her back again!
Self-important? Moi??
girl27, I'll see about cultivating an interest in watching other people ride bicycles. To be honest I really don't see that happening, but then you never know.
Speaking of bike racing, this guy's name almost fits the subject line of the post.
Speaking of bike racing, this guy's name almost fits the subject line of the post.
So does this guy's name.
And that picture totally captures my mental image of ogged.
It doesn't really make me want to watch bike racing much, though. Yes I know he's super-fit and could almost certainly kick my ass, and the joie de vivre is endearing, but still, um, no.
Funny thing about the picture linked in 34—I'd expect him to be wearing those special shoes which snap onto the special pedals, so you can pedal up as well as down. Pedal circles, dude!
Ben, that was your cue to tell them I don't look like that. (And they let them change shoes before they get on the podium.)
Sorry ogged. Let's start over, from comment 32.
Re: Flemish v. Dutch, wikipedia seems to have . . .
Am I doing this right???
w-lfs-n seems to have abandoned us to this game with no rules. Anyway, I don't think I look like Weening; I hope I don't look like him.
I haven't abandoned you, ogged, but I can't really deliver my line until eb sets me up, now can I?
Speaking of bike racing, this guy's name almost fits the subject line of the post.
Ooged doesn't look like that. At least he hopes he doesn't.
Me, I can see a slight resemblance.
ben, why must you be such a little bitch?
If you want to be childish, that's your business, I guess.
I, however, wouldn't stoop to such levels.
Hey, what in tarnation is that "l" with the little mark beneath it? Which language uses that? What sound does it indicate?
Ive been living here for about a year and half and i can say that some belgian are kind enough but most of them are stupid bunch of assholes which i didn't like! so stupid and being proud of their stupid dialect! some of them are just so fucking intolerable that they need to be burn in hell!
Eh, I find dialect-pride endearing.
Unless it's exhibited by Australlians. Then it's just fucking intolerable. "Take that 'strine and shove it back in your wallaby, mate" is what I always say.
(Sotto voce, of course, Australlians are BIG)