Some possibilities.
(a) Penfold's is the only good Shiraz (or the only good Shiraz available in Oggedville). If you liked your Shiraz, it was Penfold's.
(b) All cool / pointy-headed / Alsation people drink / like Penfolds.
(c) He's psychic (wee-ooo) or spying on you (dun-dun-DUN).
he recognized the stain on your shirt? you should brush your teeth more regularly?
I'm a bit of a Shiraz fan, and have never heard of Penfolds (which says more about me than it does the wine, trust me), so I'm glad I can still stump people I'll never meet.
You know what they say about Iranians and shirazes.
(a) Penfold's is the only good Shiraz (or the only good Shiraz available in Oggedville). If you liked your Shiraz, it was Penfold's.
Penfolds is what I would have guessed, too, since it's so common. Either that or Rosemount Estates.
What Josh said. Penfold's is the standard grocery store shiraz (along with Rosemount). I suspect you may have just been mocked as a philistine, Ogged.
I would have bet on Colt 45 and a gullible, grasping Iranian.
Maybe it's stereotypically iranian to drink penfolds.
A good critic knows a mark when he sees one. A real goober does, too.
Occam's Razor demands that we regard this man as an obsessed stalker.
If by any chance you bet him your daughters hand in marriage versus both of his houses that he couldn't name it, I know how he figured it out. Reference also explained here, though not if you heed the spoiler warning, as you should.
7: For a moment I was thinking, "liking penfolds doesn't make one a philistine." However, thinking to recommend Penfolds to a wine goober does make one a philistine. The question, then, is how did this guy know that Ogged is a philistine? Perhaps Ogged has recommended his discoveries before. ("Really, try Yellow Tail!")
Anyway, your only recourse out of philistine-hood is to clarify that it was a rarer Penfolds. [Grange/RWT/St Henri/Bin 389/Bin 28]
I quite like the Penfold's port I've had, especially for the price. I can't say the same for the Shiraz, as Rosemount seems to be the cheap Shiraz of choice in Minnesota.
"A rarer Penfolds"? He's in a hole, and you hand him a shovel?
I'm sure your wine goober friend never once considered that it was a Grange. Too bad you didn't have that riposte at the ready. He'd have turned all manner of green with envy.
Present company excluded, of course, I find wine snobbery to be really silly.
I'd like to see this goober's Salon personal. Thinking back on the tool and the prick.
Yes, for the price, Penfold's is a good bargain and reliable. The high end Penfold's(es) are worth the money, but you won't find them in grocery stores. At least not in Apostropherville.
I find wine snobbery to be really silly
I don't think I'm particularly snobby about it, but the more I drink, the easier it is to understand why some go for so much more money than others. Find a properly aged brunello or barolo from a good vintage and you will, too.
The Masterpiece Theater adaptation of the Mineshaft will be called The Tool and the Prick.
Joe, I don't see how your statement leaves room to exclude the present company.
And the storybook version, Tool and Prick are Friends.
hmmmm I would normally take your side on this one but mate, Penfolds?
"Present company excluded, of course"
Wow. Can one actually do that?
Present company excluded, of course, you're all gay cheese-eating electric-donkey-bottom-wipers.
More parsing on "electric-donkey-bottom-wipers," please.
His guess wasn't really so psychic: as has been noted, Penfolds is the best default shiraz guess, and I was shopping at the wine store he recommended to me, and he knew the price range. What is remarkable is that that still leaves about six wines I might have purchased, and I, a total wine noob, picked Penfolds. A triumph for labeling and pretty fonts and colors, I imagine.
Wait, did you just call me cheese-eating?
Could you please fully parenthesize "electric-donkey-bottom-wipers"?
Dude, we should totally write the screenplay. If somebody could make money off of Closer which, at least in the play version had a lot of internet stuff, then so should we.
Too bad you didn't have that riposte at the ready. He'd have turned all manner of green with envy.
Will Ogged lie awake in bed tonight imagining the delightful outcome of having bested the wine goober with that comeback? Will he carefully parse the phrasing and the timing so as to deliver the little bomb with the greatest nuance and nonchalance, that it may explode with the greatest efficiency? Will he picture the irises of the condescending eyes of the wine nerd suddenly dialting, doubling in size, as his mind reels with the sudden revelation of his inferiority, and his tongue goes dry with jealousy?
He'll have to let us know if he does.
I assume we're talking about people who wipe the bottoms of electric donkeys, rather than electric people who wipe the bottoms of (non-electric) donkeys. The latter would just be weird.
28: No! Joe, I blame you if Chopper blames me.
Ok, ok. How's this: most wine snobs I've met are real douchebags, but no one here seems to be.
28: no, no, you were excluded.
I would normally take your side on this one but mate, Penfolds?
I like Penfolds. Of course, I may be a philistine. And I'm ok with that.
MIchael, did you write that comment on purpose so as to include about 12 separate activities commonly performed at The Mineshaft? I think you did.
27 opens the possibility that he's friends with the the storekeeps.
36: I wouldn't dream of spoling the fun by giving a definitive answer.
You know what Penfold's reminds me of:
Oh crumbs! Oh crikey! Oh carrots!
Yellow Tail wasn't always shit. You know, before they started moving a billion bottles a year. Where I live, I would have guessed Yellow Tail or Penfolds. However, it's less likely that would forget the name if you had bought Yellow Tail.
We have more than two choices. There are at least:
1. (electric ((donkey bottom) wipers)))
2. ((electric donkey) (bottom wipers))
3. ((electric (donkey bottom)) wipers)
4. (((electric donkey) bottom) wipers)
Saiselgy's examples are 4 and 1, with 4 his preference. I agree that 1 is ridiculous. But let's not give short shrift to the electric donkeys who wipe bottoms, or to the wipers of electric bottoms of otherwise non-electric donkeys.
Penfolds: won third prize in a Penfolds tastealike competition.
Another possibility is that pdf23ds forgot a hyphen between "eating" and "electric", and in addition to the permutations SB listed, there is another set wherein you are not all eating cheese, but rather a cheese who eats (1), (2), (3), or (4). Also, perhaps pdf meant to imply that you were of sanguine temper, not that you were Mineshaft denizens. Mysteries abound.
Danger Mouse came to the mall once to have his picture taken with his adoring public. Well, it wasn't really Danger Mouse. It was one of his helpers.
I resent having been too young to fully appreciate Danger Mouse when it was actually on Nickelodeon.
Re 45: No, I meant the hyphen between "eating" and "electric". But now that you mention it, I think I forgot a hyphen between "gay" and "cheese".
Not one comment on the Penfoldy bits? You people are losing your edge.
Our edge, or our inclination to sexualize cartoon hamsters. Same difference?
At what point does being knowledgable about wine cross the line into snobbery? Sez me, it shouldn't have to do with how much you know, but rather how insufferable you are. If your friend can still drink Merlot (though it be trendy) or enjoy a good table wine (though its appellation be not controlled), then he's probably not a snob in the sense I propose.
Just to warn you all, I am this close to commenting in bad French. Hon, hon, hon!
I'm personally on a quest for a drinkable box wine (no, I'm not kidding).
Any suggestions? (Of the commonly available reds, I prefer cabs, of the commonly available white, I think the wife and I have settled on chardonnay.)
51. I don't know much about wine. I'm not, therefore, a wine snob, though I may be a real snob in other respects, since I'm from Boston, AND I really don't care for most Merlot.
(My grandfather always ordered white zinfandel about which I used to tease him lightly--more because no matter what that's what he ordered. He spent most of his life drinking a cocktail.)
I recently heard a definition of snob in se that went, someone who can hear the William Tell Overture and not think of the Lone Ranger. I'm trying to think of the vinous equivalent.
I find wine snobbery to be really silly
I can deal with wine snobbery, but finding hints of hazelnut in beer is gooberville.
Chopper--it's not a box wine, but have you tried 2 buck chuck from Trader Joe's? It goes for about $3 or $4 in states other than California. I've heard that the quality varies from bottle to bottle.
ogmb--I kind of like belgian ales, and some of those are pleasantly spiced.
Him: That's ok, I know what you had.
Flaunting is insufferable. Snobba-dobba-doo.
That was just good-natured office banter.
SB--he might not have been flaunting. It might just be that his brain is like a vacuum, and he remembers everything.
vinous equivalent
Should that be oenous?
bg: We don't have Trader Joe's in Minnesota, because our grocery stores aren't allowed to sell wine.
After further swishing and swirling, I'm detecting faint pot-kettle notes in 61.
As in, Oenous Slaughter?
Not in my dictionary, anyway.
After further swishing and swirling
If you're swishing and swirling, I think we have other notes previously undetected.
Not in my dictionary, anyway.
There is however "oenophilist" and as is presently evident, "oenomania"; "oenogen" and, fair being fair, "oenophobist".
66: did Minnesota try to bar mail-order imports too?
previously undetected
Not quite. I can't find the link, but ogged at least has me figured for a homo kind of sexual.
If your friend can still drink Merlot (though it be trendy)
Isn't it almost a bit rebellious now to order a Merlot after that scene in Sideways? Or is that effect wearing off.
Of course, that scene brings up perfectly what is really annoying about snobbering. Many snobs aren't really conoisseurs, but wanna-bes.
What happens in Sideways? Whatever it is, the Merlot thing predates it.
a useful rule of thumb is that if it was made from grapes grown north of Reims, south of Dijon, east of Metz or west of Paris, don't bother with it.
ogged at least has me figured
I've seen hints that you might be queer, but "swishing and swirling" is something I would only attribute to gay men.
Whatever it is, the Merlot thing predates it.
Right. Merlot's are very popular. In one scene in Sideways, Giamti's character, a wine goober, violently threatens to leave a up-coming dinner date if anyone orders a Merlot. It's a scene which demonstrates that nerosis of the character, but many people mistook it for a slam on the quality of Merlot, and sales of Merlot plummeted.
SHorter dquared: I like my oenous experiences to be French.
SB: The oenophile can't stand Merlot. He likes Pinot Noir. His buddy who's getting married swigs down anything and pronounces it all good. He's not discriminating at all.
Buddy guy wants to pick up chicks for dinner. He says, "We're going to go out and have a good time, and if they want to drink Merlot, then we're fucking drinking Merlot."
It should be noted that dsquared's formula restricts one to considerably less than all of France.
That's champagne country, isn't it? Maybe something else to the south?
It's rather ridiculous to reject Merlot based on the neuroses of a fictional character, but reportedly that's what happened anyway. Too trendy to slur, "Oh, nothing but pinot."
I think it used to be 'ABC' for 'Anything But Chardonnay' as the descriptor for the same sort of trendy wannabe oenophile.
Some of the most highly sought after wines in the world are 100% merlot.
apostropher, I don't doubt it. I just generally don't care for them. I'm mainly a dry sherry person myself.
I know next to nothing about wine. That is what other friends are for.
I'm going to get my boxers in a bunch about yet another moral issue, and yet again it's going to be totally unprecipitated by anything in the comment thread. It's going to be fun.
Okay here it goes: Sideways is the perfect exemplar of movies in which you're supposed to root for a woman to wind up with a guy who is about .23 good enough for her. She is beautiful, smart, kind, patient, passionate, directed and she works in wine country, an area likely to be frequented by lots of accomplished, successful men who share her passion, in a job which would make her visible to them. He is a depressed alcoholic who gets drunk and calls his ex on their first date. I did wind up rooting for PG to get her because he was the protagonist, but it sure seems like it's more common to be asked to root for women to rescue a total schlub than the other way around. And just on a pure realism front, can anyone say that they seriously think their female friend would be so supportive of a continuing relationship with a guy who had behaved that way on the first date? I think not.
Wasn't that a pretty common criticism of the movie?
I never heard it from anyone else. But I pretty much live in the Mineshaft these days.
Ah, but my critique had oaky undertones of generalizing to a prejudice that afflicts many movies, and subtle hints of noting that the friends support was the most dubious part of the scenario. Philistine.
Given the tone of my 90 and 92, Tia, I submit that I don't deserve your abuse.
That criticisim may be common. However the behavior it is critiquing (movies asking the audience to root for pairings between attractive [young] women and unatractive men) is so much more common that, clearly, the criticism is not having sufficient effect and deserves to be repeated.
the criticism is not having sufficient effect
And thank god for that, because if Kathy Bates takes her clothes off one more time, I'm swearing off movies.
I don't deserve your abuse.
at The Mineshaft?
at The Mineshaft?
No, that would be, "I can't take your abuse until 9, when Fontana's shift ends."
I think that some of the stupid stuff and nudity in movies comes from trying to get men to go to movies at all. The Porkies movies are sort of a baseline.
a useful rule of thumb is that if it was made from grapes grown north of Reims, south of Dijon, east of Metz or west of Paris, don't bother with it.
Bordeaux = teh crud?
Down the toilet you go, 1961 Chateau Latour.
I'm going to get my boxers in a bunch
I pretty much live in the Mineshaft these days.
I think mineshaft rules exclude the wearing of boxers.
Anyway, I hadn't heard the critique in 88. I never read any reviews of Sideways.
I think mineshaft rules exclude the wearing of boxers.
Misstating the Mineshaft rules. You know the penalty: an hour on the Tower of Power. Assume the position.
Sometimes, Apostropher, it does show that you were in a fraternity.
grapes grown north of Reims, south of Dijon, east of Metz or west of Paris
No Loire Valley wines for you, dsquared? Even though I've almost never seen them at a fair price in the US, Saumur-Champigny is a very decent wine. And, contrary to rumors, there are some drinkable German white wines--you just have to be, um, flexible, and don't stray out of the Moselle. And, um, Bordeaux? Medoc? Cahors? Even Bergerac has its moments!
People, don't listen to dsquared!
I have a big oenous.
They say that the wine from which it's mandated cognac be made is of rather poor quality, which is why Germain-Robin, for instance, has in principle an advantage over cognac distilleries.
Yes, yes, I'm not so much a wine snob as a oenoweenie.
That is, all cognac made has to be made from that wine. It's not true that all of that kind of wine is mandated to be made into cognac.
Thanks for clearing that up, Ben.
I kind of like belgian ales, and some of those are pleasantly spiced.
Hey, somebody brought up Belgium!
The beers here, the one's I've tried so far, anyway, (there's hundreds of 'em), are very impressive, by the way.
Mills!
Ok, I'm totally going to bed, but thought you might like a non-delayed response. How's Belgium besides the beer?
Hey, Mills. The signature on this comment of yours makes me think you've aligned yourself with the Walloons. Is it true?
Hey, somebody brought up Belgium!
Bringing Up Belgium, a screwball comedy.
At the Mineshaft Belgium, it's nonstop Bruggery, Bruggery, Bruggery—you'll have your fill of Brussels sprouts until you just Ghent take another.
At the Mineshaft Belgium, Leuven someone's Mons is a Hasselt--the regulars will consider you Antwerp.
So far I'm digging Belgium. I seem to have only met Wallons so far, and they seem fine with me, but that doesn't mean I have anything against those rotten stinking Flemish (which by the way reminds me of this).
Seriously though, the beer's good (you could definitely do a Beer of the Day club here and not get through everything in a year, probably not even through everything good), the food's good, there's an incredible range of high quality but not particularly expensive produce and foodstuffs around at the neighborhood farmers markets, so the cooking's good, and the weather has been fine so far (Brussels has a reputation for being a rainy grey city).
The people seem friendly too, even those in menial jobs seem quick with a smile and a "Bonjour!" If anything, in Brussels folks are too quick to switch to English when I stumble for a word in French. I understand about 95% of what's said to me, and reading's no problem, but my speaking is taking a while to get back up to speed.
The funny thing is that I keep speaking Chinese by mistake. It's like I have this drawer in my brain where I put all my foreign languages, and since Chinese was the last thing I put in there, it's the first to come out. I did actually appropriately speak some Chinese with the staff of a Chinese restaurant the other day, but in general it seems that the average Belgian's mastery of Chinese is woefully lacking.
Have I ever told you that guys who pretend to have been to China are totally hott?
Yes you have, ogged. Over and over again.
I'm still not going to sleep with you.
I mean, if apostropher finds you boring . . .
The apostropher sets a high bar for excitement.
Huh.
Then how come you keep telling everyone that, after a few glasses of wine, he'll drop his pants for the easter bunny?
It takes sexy lighting too, Mitch. I'm not a whore.
Come on then, apostropher, show us your tits!
It's a bit early in the day for wine.
Ah, Rochefort! $7 a bottle here, and certainly not as good.
Re: 124 -
OT, but is "teabagging" the wierdest, wrongest thing ever? I can't really think of another standard prank that creeps me out more.
show us your tits!
is "teabagging" the wierdest, wrongest thing ever?
Tim, Tim, Tim. Such a lack of imagination.
It's a bit early in the day for wine.
Oh, you and your stupid "no wine before 10am rule". What a puritan!
show us your tits!
Oh, okay.
You can't fool me, apostropher. Those aren't your tits.
A cautionary tale from Wikipedia:
This practice can potentially backfire when the victim unexpectedly wakes up and clenches down upon the "teabag".
Think twice, pranksters!
Wow, is there nothing Wikipedia doesn't know?
Wiki wiki wiki scratch.
From Wikipedia's entry on "Mineshaft gap":
Essentially, once a Soviet "doomsday" weapon has been irreversibly activated, it is proposed that a small nucleus of survivors could live out the resulting 100-year long nuclear winter in the nation's deepest mineshafts. There, using hydroponics and nuclear power, life could be maintained. Meanwhile, they repopulate the country within a century; the survivors sent inside would consist of a ratio of ten women to every one man, regrettably ending monogamy.
However, General Turgidson points out to the President at the end that this would not make a significant difference in Soviet expansionist policy: the Soviets would try to tunnel into and take over American mineshaft-space, giving the Soviets the room to breed more prodigiously than the Americans, thus overwhelming them with greater numbers when they emerge from underground after the nuclear winter ends. Turgidson adamantly declares that America "cannot allow a Mineshaft gap!"
apo, beware. i think ogged has been trying to tunnel into your mineshaft space, perhaps with labs' collusion. in fact, i have in my hand (among other things) a list of people who are trying to deprive you of your rightful mineshaft space, and it includes w-lfs-n (natch), mills, washerdryer and SB. as far as i can tell, lizardbreath is a fifth columnist. i'd show you the list, but if you saw it, you'd have to be killed. sorry about that. doin' my best, after all.
In what things besides your hand do you have this list?
