More reasons not to take the article seriously...
Keep it clean, Apostropher!
I wash it every morning, Labs.
I'm glad that someone else had the same reaction to that article that I did.
One thing that strikes me about the emails mentioned in the article is that a lot of them wouldn't be a problem at all (or less of one) if they were questions asked in person. Blah blah discussion about class and textbooks leading up to "so what kind of notebook do you think is most useful?" is fine, though I'd probably say, "oh, hell if I know." But writing it down and submitting it via email is just weird.
I have a student right now who keeps bugging me for my teaching notes and a bunch of other petty crap, and she's really pissing me off.
Somehow I missed the "read more" thing at the bottom of Labs' post. So let me clarify re. teaching notes: the problem with this is the assumption that the instructor has some tidy set of notes that it's easy to just hand over. I don't; I teach off the top of my head, based maybe on a couple of points I want to hit jotted down on a post-it ten minutes before class, or a sense of the skills and/or content I want to convey for that day's reading. Hence, "let me see your notes" amounts to a request that I recreate an hour's class for a student who couldn't be bothered to show up. Why can't they just ask a classmate? Or, at least, *ask* "do you have notes that I could stop by your office and borrow for xeroxing" or something like that?
Is this the same student you believe never has, nor ever will, get laid?
Dear Inside Higher Ed.,
I never thought this would happen to me, but then, late one night, as I was preparing my Symposium lecture...
You're stopping there? Come on, don't evacuate teh evocative exposition prematurely!
B, Can't you just tell said student that you don't have teaching notes, or does that not work?
I mean, if you got an email like the one noted, and said, "look, I don't really have the kind of notes that would help you-- why not ask a friend?" it wouldn't be bad at all. But it's also not bad to ask, I think, because some profs do keep those notes, and they can be useful, so it's worth a shot.
The awesome power of a polite "no" rears its head again here, I think.
8: It is! I hate her.
10: The problem with that, I think, is that this student is so fucking assholish about the things she expects. So, for instance, she didn't do an in-class writing exercise because she hadn't done the reading ahead of time (never mind that I put the reading, a short poem, on an overhead while they were doing the exercise). After class, she comes up all concerned and wants to know how much it will count for. I say, "in-class writing plus this other stuff, as the syllabus says, counts for a total of 15% of your grade, but a single assignment won't make much difference, don't worry about it." An hour later I get an email demanding that I tell her *exactly* how much that *one* assignment will count for (answer: who the fuck knows? it depends how many of those we end up doing this semester) and, if it's more than 1.5% or some shit like that, that I allow her to make it up somehow even though she was in class when it was done.
In other words, my impression is that this student is going to raise hell if I say to her, "I don't have notes, I make it up as I go along."
I told her to borrow someone else's notes.
Labs, it's not bad to ask, but ime a lot of these "requests" are phrased as demands without any recognition of the fact that the problem they're having is their own doing: "I wasn't in class today, so can you send me your notes?" reads really differently than "I'm sorry, I had to miss class today; if you have notes, may I borrow them?"
an email demanding that I tell her *exactly* how much
You should tell her that it doesn't matter, since you've already decided you're going to fail her on general principle.
I can't even believe what a bunch of weenies they found to complain in that story. There are so many *good* examples of ridiculous student e-mails that I don't know how they managed to find so many *bad* examples.
Here's my favorite type:
============
From: studguy7@hotmail.com
WHAT WAS THE ASSIGNMENT AGAIN?! THX.
============
Let's see:
a) who are you?
b) what class of mine are you in?
c) if you can't even be bothered to say "hi", "dear" or even "yo", why should I reply?
The worst part is, she asked me to overload her into the class, and I did so because she's an older student with teaching experience, and I figured she would therefore be responsible and mature, rather than a whiny baby. Live and learn.
#15: Oh, agreed. But that would be why your teaching evals are better than mine. Plus, given my academic field, I figure if they can't think about things like tone and audience, they need to learn that the consequences will be a testy reply or none at all.
See? I'm being pedagogically sound; my bitchiness has a purpose.
The only thing that bothers me about student requests?
"Did we do anything in class today?"
I know what they mean, but one of these days, I'm going to respond, "No, we played fucking tiddlywinks" and then imma gonna hafta get a private sector job.
Other than that, everything else is usually symptomatic of a neurotic little student, and I used to be one of those, so...
Have you ever had a student's parent email you? I had some parents try to intervene on behalf of their kids when I was a TA. (One actually called me at home.) That's just wrong – if you're in college, you should be able to take care of your own problems. And, almost always, the version of why Little Johnny was flunking my class was far from an accurate account anyway.
Oh, and the easy response to prof Ewick's worry: "I don't read drafts, but I will go over an outline with you if you'd like to make an appointment."
My students send me this stuff all the time. "I missed class today -- can I meet with you sometime so we can go over everything I missed?" Inevitably they want to meet sometime other than my office hours, because they have class or swomething else then, even though I always ask at the beginning of the semester if everyone is okay with my proposed office hours, because I am flexible and want to schedule them at a time that everyone is okay with.
Unfortunately, I always cave and meet with these lousy students, at their convenience, and more or less reteach them, personally, the material they missed. Why? I'm just terrified of poor evaluations, I guess. Probably I need to grow some balls.
I haven't yet had a parent email or call, thank god.
Urple, you totally need to grow some balls. Set the office hours you want, and add "or by appointment." Restrict appointments to fifteen minutes, and only schedule them at times when you're going to be on campus anyway. If you act like this is the professional way to do things, the students will be cowed and incredibly grateful at your willingness to meet with them outside of office hours at all.
I once considered e-mailing a professor to apologize for turning in a crappy final essay and to note that I had really enjoyed the class and wouldn't want the professor to think that my poor essay was indicative of how good I though the class was. Then I decided that would be weird. I can think of a couple of ocassions where the "that would be weird" extinct didn't kick in and I e-mailed professors things that they might have found odd, but never anything along this "odd requests" line.
I've had that impulse. If Hallmark made cards saying "I hope you realize that the quality of my work in your class doesn't reflect my opinion of your teaching or of what I thought I got out of the class," I would have bought several back in college.
24 - B: I attempt to do more or less that, of course (except for my flexibility in setting hours at the beginning of the semester). And I certainly don't find students "cowed and incredibly grateful" at my willingness to meet with them outside of office hours. It's rare I see a student truly grateful for anything -- a sense of total entitlement is much more common. Students who are obviously very used to having their own way, and are unhesistant to cry and whine and raise all hell if they don't get it.
I don't know where you teach, but I often wonder if this is in large part a consequence of my teaching at a very snooty Ivy school. Most of the students are, well, spoiled (for lack of a better term). I myself attended a large public state school, and I don't remember students behaving this way at all. I think their responses would have been more along the lines of those you describe (excepting the occassioanl bad apple, of course).
I always think it's cute when students do that, even though I make a mock scolding face and tell them "NEVER apologize for your work!"
And then of course I thank them and say it was a pleasure having them in class.
28 was for 25 and 26.
Re. 27, this is probably a good point. Yet another reason I really like the state system, except for that pesky funding problem.
27 was not meant to deny the fact that I probably need to grow some balls. Just to articulate that I've more or less tried, and have concluded that the consequences of doing so would be real (and a real headache); I would not be met with fawning student appreciation.
This is the best answer I've seen to the "Did we do anything today?" question.
This is pretty good, too, but in a different way.
Yes, and notice how passive-aggressive, um, I mean, Canadian it is!
I've got one of those emails sitting in my box from someone who needs a couple reference letters yesterday.
Gosh, it's too bad that you didn't have time to check your email this week, isn't it, CW?
These days, they say, students seem to view them as available around the clock, sending a steady stream of e-mail messages
If I had a question, comment, or complaint -- and yes, I'm sorry, I'm a freshman, so it might well be a stupid question, comment, or complaint -- I would send a professor an e-mail. It seems to me to be the least presumptuous medium available, most convenient to both parties. If the prof isn't available around the clock, okay, fine, he's not going to check his e-mail immediately. But I'd rather have my message sitting in his inbox than come to office hours only to find that there are five other students clamoring for attention or call and either leave a voicemail or demand to be attended to immediately.
I haven't read the whole thread, but 37 gets it exactly right. As long as it isn't followed by "I couldn't help but notice that you haven't responded to my e-mail even though you logged on," or something.
On a possibly related topic, not showing up to the first few weeks of class, sending me an e-mail explaining that you had personal issues and then when they were resolved your roommate's father died, showing up one day before the first test, then e-mailing the day of the test to say that you had a headache and took some medicine that made you totally groggy and can you please please please take a makeup, and then responding to "Can you come into the office any time tomorrow?" with "I have a packed day tomorrow but early Thursday morning or tomorrow night could be arranged if the need is there" is dispreferred.
Pseudonymity weeps for you, Ttam R.
I did that on purpose! (The point is not to be googlaboogle.)
most convenient to both parties
I'd rather have my message sitting in his inbox than come to office hours only to find that there are five other students clamoring for attention
In other words, with all due respect, it's the most convenient for you. Profs have office hours *in order to answer student questions* (and what about after class?). Admittedly, you have no way of knowing how much email we get but believe me, it's a ton.
Anyway, there are never five students waiting during office hours, unless it's right before an exam/paper due date.
Can't find your little dear one? Googlehbubeleh.
I wish I wish I could sadden the yearning hummus poetry, or whatever it is that text does so well. Instead, this.
B., are you suggesting that students shouldn't e-mail at all? On the (very rare) occasions that I contact a professor directly, I use e-mail, and it doesn't seem to be a problem.
No, no, of course not. I'm just being a snot over the "it's more convenient for the professor if I email" thing.
Really, I don't mind student emails; I even like them. I just wish that students would use email for questions that (1) aren't addressed on the syllabus; (2) don't demand I somehow make up for their missing class (although I always appreciate an email telling me they're going to and asking if there is anything to do for the next class beyond what's on the syllabus); (3) are germane to specific coursework, e.g., "would you like my presentation on Thursday to cover X?"; and so on. I get irked by questions about things that don't have to do with class ("what kind of notebook is best?"), or that have to do with administrative issues that aren't my job to take care of, or that simply announce that the student will or won't do x, y, or z and then ask me to do something extra in order to help them make up for it.
And things that are really substantive, like "I don't understand this problem" or "can you explain my grade?" are just a lot easier to discuss in person. On the other hand, excited "I don't have a question, but I was thinking about this after class and it's so cool I just wanted to run it by you!" messages are charming.
Basically, and obviously, the problem is time. If it's something that's time-sensitive (can't wait for office hours) and important, email is great. If it's not, then I'd much rather it come up during the office hours that I've set aside for student use.
I think I've been lucky -- I've never had emails as bad as some of the examples listed above. I can't remember any, in fact, that weren't reasonable enough. A couple that were a bit cheeky maybe, in terms of asking me to help bail them out as they'd not put in the work but friendly and apologetic with it.
I did have one student ring me at midnight one night, though, to give me some weak excuse for not handing in a tutorial paper -- I had given him my number as he had an upcoming situation that might have led to a last minute cancellation of a tutorial. I just had no idea he'd think it'd be OK to ring me at midnight.
I had one classmate who called our professor after 11PM. I though tit was appallingly rude, but then everyone knew that this particular professor was notorious for pulling all-nighters.
Different professors feel differently about e-mail. When I started college in the fall of 1993, e-mail wasn't nearly as prevalent as it is now, and many students didn't immediately sign up for an account. My expository writing teacher practically made us sign up for e-mail accounts, because he wanted to be able to e-mail us detailed comments on our drafts.
Some of my shyer, but totally brilliant professors liked e-mail, because it allowed them to be more thoughtful and organized in their replies.
Re: office hours. Some of my professors didn't hold office hours, but these particular professors wereabsolutely overjoyed if you made an appointment to see them.
One of my professors--who was very well known for teaching a course for zeroes--made us all create a low-tech version of a list-serv, i.e. we all shared our e-mail addresses. This particular man was a bit of a spaz and always had beautiful Mont Blanc pens, and he would pull us all around the seminar table and say "Okay, gang." We were all pretty much in awe of him. He once did a voluntary extra 2 hour session on a Saturday, and most of us showed up.
(In a graduate class, I had a prfessor who trated teaching as drama--his lectures rarely varied from year to year, but his performance was finely honed-- and tied to his own materials used to do marathon eight hour reviews before the final exam, and he was retired at the time.
I often found that Senior faculty were a lot more understanding and reasonable when students did have genuine personal problems. When my grandmother died, one of the professors in my concentration was perfectly glad to let me put off taking y mid-term the day after the funeral--even though it meant that he would have to write one just for me, whereas when I explained to the graduate student who was TF-ing my Core class on the Russian Revolution that I might not be fully prepared for sectin that wek, he freaked out and thought that I was trying to get out of the mid-term (whic was a couple of weeks away.)
The role of parents: Most of the time parents shouldn't e-mail their kids' professors. I've heard some of the new micro-manager parents are even showing up at job interviews after graduation, BUT I do think that their needs to be a way for parents who are genuinely concerned about their children to talk to an administrator and/or faculty member. Maybe I'm just transposing the way that parents deal with teachers in the boardng school setting to the undergraduate classroom, BUT sometimes students are facing really difficult situations that they don't knwo how to handle. I don't want to pathologize laziness, but I'veknown students struggling from depressin who could have used help navigating teh thicket of bureaucratic hell that is studentmental health services or dealing with the administration. The brother-in-law of a friend of mine was diagnosed with schizophrenia while in college, and he decided to take some time off to get his illness under control. And of course, his parents were involved in that decision and helped him in a lot of ways. I don't think it would be wrong for a parent to call to say that their child is in the hospital or whatever.
When I was a TA I once actually got a handwritten midterm using one or two IM or text message abbrevations. It took quite a while to figure out what "b2b" meant in context - after figuring out from the handwriting that it really did say "b2b" which I couldn't believe at first - and I now no longer remember what it was. Might have been a reference to someone winning 2 elections back to back.
The answer itself wasn't so bad - not an A, certainly, but not a C or lower - and I have no idea why the student thought the abbreviations would save so much time as to be worth writing.
I have to say that my biggest peeves were students who wanted to IM me (not!), and students who emailed me at 3am to tell me about the big crush they had on me. it's awkward.
Gosh, it's too bad that you didn't have time to check your email this week, isn't it, CW?
Boy, isn't that the truth. Back at the ranch here, I can only get my wife on the exercise bike to power thelaptop on wednesdays. Luckily the student's called my secretary two times, already, to make sure I'm doing the letters.
students who emailed me at 3am to tell me about the big crush they had on me. it's awkward.
Does that hold for co-bloggers, too? 'Cause, y'know, I'll stop.
he student's called my secretary two times
Holy tenure, you have a secretary? The life of the mind rules.
I have no idea why the student thought the abbreviations would save so much time
I had a high school teacher who allowed us to register our custom abbreviations with him in advance, so we could use them on essay tests to save time.
52 -- this seems to me like it would be counterproductive -- you would need to keep in memory a database of which abbreviations you had cleared with the teacher, seems like it could edge out other important essay-writing-related material.
I liked it; it saved you writing e.g. "Civil Rights Movement" over and over again.
I should add, in the teaching jobs where I've had students writing a lot of long-hand essays, they've often independently adopted similarly unconventional, but highly useful, abbreviations, often supplying a glossary at the tops of their essays.
I had a geometry teacher who would let you pre-clear abbreviations for sequences of frequently used theorems / axioms, too.
Isn't the customary thing to write "Civil Rights Movement [CRiM]" the first time in the essay you reference it, than "CRiM" subsequently? Saves the writing extra characters, easier on the memory.
A professor at my college (the same one who had the "love is undifferentiated..." line) was notorious for pulling all nighters and called a student (his RA) at around midnight on a Friday. Everyone in the room was drunk, his friend answered the phone, and he was like dude, it's A_____ W_____ on the phone, and the RA staggered over and attempted to have a conversation with his prof about the experimental design while toasted.
I think the thing that throws me is the sexy email addresses. A friend had a student whose address was "getsasslikewhoa." My students have ranged from the initially baffling "sexycancer" to the cheeky "uaintalldat" to the direct come-on "thabrotha4u." I keep thinking, aren't these messages meant for, like, a small handful of one's correspondents? Not for, say, grandma or new prof? Because the first time it happened, I was all, "I've got ten new boyfriends and girlfriends! I'm the popularest!"
Alas, then I remember that they're eighteen and have yet to learn about audience.
I think the solution for 58 has to be telling the students that you will only deal with email from official university addresses.
So we should probably all e-mail alameida at 3:00 AM country x time to tell her that we have big crushes on her.
Yeah, but that would require us to do math. And math is hard!