1: "Try the highbrow version." s/b "FRIST!"
Becks, I was meaning to ask: was there a reason you didn't post about that horrible Shamu Modern Love? It stayed at the top of the most-emailed articles for ages and was surely one of the most hideous yet.
That Flavorpill guy messages everyone to say, "Want to go on a date? If not, want to join my obsessive community?"
I think because it was one of the most hideous yet. I wasn't sure if we'd get much conversation beyond "that's hideous". Someone brought it up in one of the threads a while back and proved me wrong -- the conversation about it was quite good. But, by then, it had already been discussed so I didn't feel the need to post about it.
It's still up at the top. I had to dig for this week's Modern Love because I wanted to see the response here.
I've been sucked in, haven't I.
I try not to post it every week, really I do. That's one of the reasons why I avoided the Shamu article. But it really does suck me in. I mean, "Rock my network"? Come the fuck on.
Perhaps it's because the author seems to be using all of the online stuff for score-keeping - who has the most friends on MySpace, how many sites she can join, etc. Who cares?
Ah, but did you catch the best line?
Meanwhile, MySpace is so big that I can't even seem to find a place to start my own mini-network and branch out. I have 10 profiles, but not nearly enough friends.
Why in fuck's name would you have 10 profiles on MySpace? (Can you rework the Whore/Madonna dichtotomy into 10 different personas?)
Anyways, yeah. She's essentially telling you that she isn't actually engaging in virtual intimacy, she's engaged in the rankest sort of social climbing. She's not there to communicate, she's there, truly, to be seen.
They are the ultimate social currency, public declarations of the intimacy status of a relationship.
It's interesting to me to watch how this evolves. Measuring success by how much money/Prada you have is so old school; now it is how many people can you successfully manipulate. I'd be very interested to see how often serious personality disorders manifest as online roleplaying.
Personally, I expect a collapse; it's like the tech boom. People just get in on the craze, and certainly it will continue to grow, but it'll reach a point of diminishing returns for normal people. And then everyone will be over it.
I guess the "Love" part is less important than the commitment to writing that makes you want bang your head against the wall.
Well, clearly, the target audience is comprised airheaded dipshits. Often this is synonymous with 'young' but not always.
max
['I think they should call it 'Modern Fiction'.']
I kind of think the myspace phenomenona just makes explicit a lot of the thought that different people have long gone into in presenting themselves to the world. Same as it ever was. I do wonder if the Internet helps perpetuate the false steps that a lot of people go through on that path, or if it helps people figure out who they are (or are really building to be) sooner.
But the bizaare reinventing government style data driven coup counting of "I'm popular with people I've never met because my computer tells me so" really does freak me out a little. Its not just the score keeping, its what changes you make in yourself and your behavior to run up the score.
Oh, if only I kept up, Becks. I knew you'd tackled it somewhere.
If you really want to barf into your Wheaties, there's a column in the Park Slope Reader by someone who calls herself "Smartmom" who's married to "Hepcat" and she talks about the dreariness of being white and rich and really super-privileged in Brooklyn. Our neighborhood is mostly occupied by wealthy ladies with Ivy League degrees who spend most of their time either writing articles about how to train your hubby like a dog or explaining to other mommies at the Tea Lounge why they've decided to "freelance" while exploring how to train hubbies like dogs.
Yes, I'm posting Becks-style.
This may be a bit off topic, but is anyone else suspicious that Becks and Cala are really the same person?
Yeah, there was something totally psycho about this Modern Love (as if the others aren't easily DSM IV categorizable in themselves). I'd like to think I'm at the breaking point of forming so many of my relationships online, but seriously. She makes it sound like she's normal. When I say I have a blog and have met people through it, most people IRL back up a few steps.
11 No. But I used to wonder if Standpipe was a creation entirely of Ogged's frenzied imagination.
11: Don't get that at all; would require a Shakespearean capacity to inhabit another persona. Very different.
Cala: more violent.
Becks: more into Sleater-Kinney.
That's how I keep them separate.
This week's Modern Love is written by a narcissist.
She says she spies on her exes on line. She also says that their not replying to messages (presumably hers) is "aggressive". Keep away!
Right. She's the one everyone I dated on Nerve was complaining about.
15 And as someone who is only recently into Sleater Kinney, them going on hiatus/breaking up is a shame. (Now lets see if Cala agrees...)
I wanted to say that this week's column is about self-love, but that's a different column.
This place is getting overrun with kittens. They all look the same too.
What is more modern than cybernarcissism?
I have a few portraits of a kitten (now deceased) you could add to spice things up.
It's a shame this article sucked because there are interesting things to be said about online communities and why people choose the ones they do. I've had the "no, meeting people through blogs isn't weird" conversation with many non-blogging friends and it always ends without much understanding but I recently had the realization that even blog-people have trouble understanding why you would choose to frequent a particular site. I was at a gathering and someone who was actively involved with another site was asking me all kinds of questions about Unfogged and I found it very difficult to coherently articulate "Why Unfogged?", even though this person understood blogs and had met people through them.
I finally got to the bottom of the column. Says this is adapted from a book:
Theodora Stites lives in New York where she works in market research. This essay is adapted from "Twentysomething Essays by Twentysomething Writers" (Random House, August).
88 lines about 44 women. Thirty Two Short Films about Glenn Gould. 22 Short Films about Springfield. All good. But this book? Meh.
It is an interesting issue, especially with the proliferation of blogs and social networking sites and the many choices of online venue this creates.
24: Every once in a while, we've trying to articulate it to each other, that is, to the several hundred people in the world, max, who do "get it," and haven't been able to.
I'm quite sure Becks and Cala are different people, though I admit they're somewhat similar.
Oh, come on guys, this isn't so bad. All it's saying is "I'm still in the stage where I'm enamored of what can be done with social software." And she even says something true--"I've found that I act much as I do in real life, and my SecondLife relationships tend to fail the same way my real-life relationships do." I'm fascinated by that phenomenon.
Cala: more violent.
And on the rifle team in high school. She's Unfogged's "Most Likely to End Up in a Clocktower"
I keep trying to talk to my boyfriend about this, and it feels a little eerily like "coming out." He understands why I have a blog, and he reads it, and he occasionally dips into the comments if I say something particularly interesting or obnoxious was going on, but I really couldn't say, except in pretty vague terms, that I hung out with people from Unfogged IRL. Like, I'd like to invite you guys to our barbeques and parties. I think it makes sense.
I think it has half to do with his never having been involved in internet communities (while I've been doing it since age 16) and half to do with my wanting to feel free to talk here more openly about stuff I don't talk about on my blog. Different communities have different purposes, and I kind of like that Unfogged is free of taint from the rest of my RL connections.
Actually, one interesting thing to discuss would be which sites people here frequent and participate actively in.
Also, kind of unrelated, but I was listening to the radio the other day and the DJ was talking about how they were having some happy hour-ish thing for fans of the radio station and he took a few calls from some "OMG! I love your station! Can't wait to meet you!" fans and I was thinking "Damn, that's pathetic. Who would actually go to an event hosted by a radio station or call in to talk to the DJ?" And then I realized that, had I not gone out of town, I had been considering going to the DCist Butterstick happy hour last Thursday and have been known to comment on their site.
So, kind of a real-world vs. internet version of "Community A rulez! Community B droolz!"
24/28 - really? What about "great group blog with very active group of highly intelligent, witty, all-around-interesting commenters"? That's why I'm here.
Becks and Cala are both quite levelheaded, but they express it in very different ways.
It's fascinating that this vapid woman uses variations of the word "intimate" six times in her piece.
31: If I recall correctly, Becks is quite skilled with the firearms herself.
The DC contingent here does seem to hang out together IRL a bit. I've convinced some people close to me that this is real, and am also looking to put together people I know from these two worlds a bit to see if it works. I don't see why not.
So the question she doesn't ask is interesting: how and why are RL interactions more/less intimate than online ones? How are the ways we choose RL communities different/similar to the ways we choose online ones? Why are people who have totally satisfying lives otherwise drawn to online strangers?
11 wasn't really serious; I'm sure they're different people. I can just usually identify a post by any of the other bloggers here with reasonable accuracy (without looking to see who posted), based on subject matter, writing style, personal details, etc. Whereas Becks and Cala = totally interchangable, to me.
If I am to be confused with someone, I'm flattered that it is Cala. Maybe that means I can borrow the calabat sometime. Woo!
I don't think I would really want people I know IRL to know about my online activities. I'd like to be able to talk about some stuff without worrying that someone I know is going to see it. This is the main reason I'm pseudonymous; there's no real danger to me if someone knows my identity, but I'd prefer to keep my online persona relatively hidden from people I know in other ways.
Why are people who have totally satisfying lives otherwise drawn to online strangers?
I think I'm drawn to fairly similar people online and IRL. I'm drawn to "online strangers" for the same reasons I'm drawn to real-life strangers-- I like to meet interesting new people. The internet just facilitates this in a lot of ways that real-life doesn't.
Re: What about "great group blog with very active group of highly intelligent, witty, all-around-interesting commenters"?, I think the reason it was hard to articulate was that I was pressed on why it was different/better than other sites that he considered to have intelligent, witty, and interesting people. Um, we have cock jokes!
Attention seeking on the internet is sick! Sick, I tell you!
I'd like to be able to talk about some stuff without worrying that someone I know is going to see it.
Though this is totally true. I'm a lot more open, especially with new people, when I'm pseudonymous and can choose if necessary to never interact with them again. This is one part of the "facilitation" I described in 46.
It comes closer here to a real conversation, of a kind quite rare in IRL, than anywhere else I've seen.
41: Exactly -- these are fascinating questions. What is meant by "intimacy"? On the author's view, it seems to mean knowing people's geographical locations, having the ability to click on the carefully-constructed profiles of friends-of-friends-of-friends, and getting token forms of cyber-attention.
I have gotten to know a few people quite well through on-line interaction, and the process seemed a lot less stressful and laborious than trying to build up intimacy in real life.
Also, Becks has keys to the blog, is reasonable, articulate and I derail comment threads by getting hung up on the niceties of argument. (DO YOU TRUST WOMEN OR NOT, B?)
As for online interpersonal relationships:
1) The author of the article is a tool. Or she's treating Friendster like a game.
2) I have met people that I've known through games (the boyfriend), through blogs, through random shit. My father still refers to my boyfriend as my 'internet boyfriend' and while that's annoying, it's not nearly as annoying as having my boyfriend hint that one day he'll respond with 'Yeah, but i'm banging her, so?' and then my parents' eyeballs will melt.
3) I believe that excessive online interaction belies and I'm even willing to say causes, at least moderate depression & OCD.
I thought there was a general moratorium on "Unfogged is soooooospecial" comments?
That being said, this is the only place I comment regularly, and when I do comment elsewhere, it's usually at an Unfogged blogger/commenter's site.
I guess, because of the way most commenters here assume the best of one from the get-go, which I can't get from a conversation at my grad school, I feel free to talk about stuff that RL friends might sit around judging me for later. Like, I can assume y'all aren't going off into some room to talk about what a whore I am. I'd like to think that's not true of people I know equally well IRL, but it's not.
Actually, I think 53 is right about the masturbatory comments.
I am banned!!
45: the pseudonymity issue is very interesting. I have a compromise position where I'm kind of pseudonymous but if someone wanted to put some effort in, they could figure out who I was. I wish now that I was totally pseudonymous, because my blog would be a hundred times more interesting if I could express myself with absolute freedom and no reprisals from anyone.
What I like about on-line communities is that there are very few formalities. Dive right into the conversation, and if it's boring or time to go to bed, I can just log off without spending half an hour trying to wind the conversation down or excuse myself.
Shit! Guys, never mind about the eetingmay behind the oodshopway to talk about WBAY being all horeyway.
55: Rg, I think I'm banned too, I guess. Bedtime anyhoo.
Sometimes I feel like enough of an outsider that I still get to say shit like 54. I never got my fruit basket.
Whereas Becks and Cala = totally interchangable, to me.
I thought Becks=female ogged was the most common reaction. You know, because she can dunk.
There's only one frequent commenter who really objects to the "Unfogged is so special" stuff.
I'd like to be able to talk about some stuff without worrying that someone I know is going to see it.
This part really doesn't bother me as
A. I don't have any kind of compelling reason to be anonymous.
B. The things I say on the internet are things and have/would have said IRL anyways.
I'm a lot different IRL. That is, I hope I am. I'm probably blunter in these threads than I am in actual conversation. There's something about the lack of faces that brings that about I think. Sorry, all.
57: I hope you're talking about BW, who is a total whore.
I don't think this is "Unfogged is so special" masturbation as much as actually trying to figure out what makes various communities different. I suspect even Bridgeplate wouldn't pull out the yellow card for this conversation.
OT: does anyone else think that the flares soccer fans light when their teams score goals look like great big Mordor war fires?
65: So what's the answer, Becks?
65: I agree. So, what makes Unfogged different?
Well, to be fair, I was masturbating when I wrote 35.
I think Cala and Becks are in complementary distribution.
Like the narrator and Tyler Durden?
I am Jack's lonely comment box.
67 & 68 - I don't know! That's what I had trouble answering. I think a lot of it has to do with the level of commitment of the commenters. But then that loops back to "but why are people so committed?" and it's an endless loop of questions. I think another is something people touched on in the Bowie thread, which is that people genuinely want to explore questions and can do so civilly.
Well, to be fair, I was masturbating when I wrote 35.
I came twice while I was reading this.
I derail comment threads by getting hung up on the niceties of argument. (DO YOU TRUST WOMEN OR NOT, B?)
Awww. I like that you do that, even though in the moment it usually drives me nuts, because it keeps me honest. You're amazingly good at niggling over arguments while maintaining equanimity and good humor.
Re. AWB, I for one was very excited when she showed up here.
Plus it gives us someone new to gossip about.
I believe that excessive online interaction belies and I'm even willing to say causes, at least moderate depression & OCD.
I've always found that level of participation online puzzling. I largely look at this site at night while I'm at work. I have two monitors, and the tools I use have these small time lags while they load cases. Nothing very long, just regular little time gaps that are perfect for glancing at comment threads. But my internet usage is primarily reading the news and related political and science blogs, magazines, etc.. I've never been able to get into things like online gaming, or other extensive online interactions. Just never seems as attractive as actually doing something IRL.
I think the two biggest distinguishing features of Unfogged are the informality/joviality, and the habit of self-deprecation practiced by pretty much everyone. We don't have anyone unwilling to back down when they should, and admit error or ignorance. Basically, we have an extremely low asshole factor. I think all the humor around here helps people feel more free to act like a falliable humans, and to not worry about not being accepted by other commenters.
I bet you say that to all the thugs.
I think the fact that this isn't primarily a political blog anymore has a lot to do with it. Discussing politics is tiring and can be divisive, but if it's leavened with enough posts about David Bowie and vibrators there's no adverse effect on overall morale.
Fuck! 77 to 75. Look SB, I have to call you feckless thug now and then or else the phrase will work itself into my dissertation.
59 is exactly wrong. Becks is not into stirring up shit, which Ogged manifestly is (if only up to a point).
57: WBAY has Brad Spakowitz, who has been rumored to be a little horeyway.
His MySpace profile is under "Darby Zwitokaps". Or will be soon.
I'm a lot different IRL. That is, I hope I am. I'm probably blunter in these threads than I am in actual conversation.
I'm much nicer online. Tone and intent are harder to discern, so I'm more willing to give people the benefit of the doubt.
I don't understand how you all can calmly discuss socio-economics when Zidane's future legend is up for dispute.
If you aren't into that, everyone mentioned in a NYT "Modern Love" article is autonomatically in the wrong; it just might take 1,000 online iterations to discover the conventional wisdom that makes them so.
And my goal is to figure out how to make better pastries than all their asses.
With that, I had better sign out, à la Becks, ` qui je me tippe le chapeau.
I don't understand how you all can calmly discuss socio-economics when Zidane's future legend is up for dispute.
If you aren't into that, everyone mentioned in a NYT "Modern Love" article is autonomatically in the wrong; it just might take 1,000 online iterations to discover the conventional wisdom that makes them so.
And my goal is to figure out how to make better pastries than all their asses.
With that, I had better sign out, à la Becks, &aagrave; qui je me tippe le chapeau.
59 is exactly wrong. Becks is not into stirring up shit, which Ogged manifestly is (if only up to a point).
Please don't make me find the thread in which everyone previously conceded this point. Including you. Simply accept that my penis gives me access to a higher, greater truth. And Labs.
Oh, hell. Well, that's a sign, if ever I've seen one. G'night.
How about I cop to Ogged's fussiness and concern about social norms but not his shit-stirring tendencies? That make everyone happy?
I think it's more a political blog than it used to be, actually.
Also, text's 62 is largely true of me as well. IRL I'm perfectly capable of the kind of pushy opinionated argument that I do online, but I mostly only do it around good friends who enjoy the performance. Also, I sometimes have a long quiet observation period in person which I don't demonstrate online (at least, you can't see people lurking while they try to decide if X online place is worth contributing to).
There's only one frequent commenter who really objects to the "Unfogged is so special" stuff.
What's LB, chopped liver?
I love this blog, but if it ever tweaks my nipple it's going down.
That make everyone happy?
See, pure ogged.
I think it's more a political blog than it used to be, actually.
It's certainly more political than it was when I started reading, but I hear tell that long ago it was very political and quite different from it's current form. Anyway, it's not primarily political, which is my point.
I think it's more a political blog than it used to be, actually.
That is true, and largely thanks to LB. It's made more of an honest woman out of me. When I talk about Unfogged to people who don't know that I blog I call it "the political group I belong to".
I love this blog, but if it ever tweaks my nipple it's going down.
Of course we would. We aren't a bunch of teases, SB.
What's LB, chopped liver?
Or Farber, for that matter?
That was a reach-around nipple tweak followed by a variant form of giving head. Those footballers are so daring.
"Also, I sometimes have a long quiet observation period in person which I don't demonstrate online."
That's also me.
85 drives me to say: Hey all, remember that time? I was kidding!
You know, Zidane's headbutt was a definite red card.
But it was a really sweet headbutt. It was like the Italian player was a soccer ball. Wham! Pwned!
91 works.
Also, continuing to muse on what I, me, my own fascinating self, am like irl vs. online, I think that my tendency to lurk/hang back while I suss out whether X group of people is compatible is one reason I'm so impatient with trolls. One of my dearly held social norms is that you just don't walk up and start insulting people/showing off. If you're stuck having to make conversation with people you dislike, you murmur the occasional non-committal monosyllable, express mild disagreement if really offended, and get away as soon as possible, making a mental note to avoid those people in the future.
If you're stuck having to make conversation with people you dislike, you murmur the occasional non-committal monosyllable, express mild disagreement if really offended, and get away as soon as possible
Sometimes a more Ogged like approach is called for.
"You people are high. You know that, right?"
I'm not sure I buy this comparison with IRL. I'm not like anything "in real life." It varies with the situation. This probably approximates what I'm like around a bunch of people with whom I'm comfortable.
You say you're more confrontational IRL, gswift?
47-year-old balding man. Persona. I'm not sure how it would compare, except that in real life, I type better.
I don't have any compelling reason to be anonymous, but occasionally I wish I did. I run into a problem in that a good number of my IRL friends read Unfogged, and I found, for example, that recently when I was tempted to moan about how my relationship with s. was turning upside down, it was never appropriate even when it was banal or totally germane. It was problematic, because I like to maximalize outlets for talking about me.
I agree with 107. I'd say my persona here is pretty similar to what I'm like when I'm with people I'm very comfortable with.
What I really enjoyed was how he waited to do it. He just jogged along nonchalantley--ho, hum. Then he turned--bam--then back to jogging. He never showed any facial expression. A showman.
As for the outrage, it seemed to come from the American commentator who knew very little about soccer, and less from the other guy. Not knowing much about the sport, I don't think I can condemn Zidane. It might be, that sort of thing happens. And if so, the way he did it was pretty sweet.
106: Well, that's what I do. I'm not good at being amusingly good-humored with people who annoy me. I am good at being amusingly good-humored with near strangers, sometimes, but then half the time they end up being the ones annoyed by it.
113: That hardly seems possible.
110 - (Oh man, sorry to hear it, Smasher.)
Smasher, just type your name backwards and then we'll talk about your love-life with impunity.
IRL I think sex is dirty and disgusting.
110: I have the same kind of problem, because I've stupidly told the people I love and trust about the blog. Which means that I can't complain about them on it.
119: Provided all his friends went to Harvard. Which I think they did.
110, 121: See, that's the kind of thing I'm trying to avoid, which is why I'm pseudonymous.
110 does bring up a good point. When you go online partly to be able to freely discuss things about your personal life away from people who know you IRL and then form IRL relationships with people online that have their own issues you want to discuss, where do you turn? I know I've run into that dilemma before. (I usually end up telling my friend Ellie in Texas and she's like "Who the hell are these people? Why do you need to work this out? Can't you just stop reading that site? Problem solved!")
I don't think I have the same kind of sexual bravado I probably sometimes come off as having around here IRL. I might frequently say the same things, but it's tempered by my physical presence, which is generally not the kind of presence you associate with a lot of sexual bravado. There was a period when I was uncomfortable with how I felt my bravado here was insufficiently tempered with my natural dweebiness, so I made a conscious effort to dweeb it up. I will almost never argue as aggressively IRL as I do sometimes here. Also, I've been in the weird position of admitting things online that I've never talked about to RL friends, or, I guess, just talked about to Clementine, but then transitioning some Unfogged people into real life, and being in an odd situation where relatively new people knew some things about me I hadn't told some of my much older friends. OTOH, there's plenty I don't talk about on this blog about my family and relationship history that my RL friends have the whole scoop on, and I'm not even reluctant to give that scoop to someone who expresses interest; it's just not blog fodder.
You say you're more confrontational IRL, gswift?
How I am online is pretty similar to IRL. I guess it's more accurate to say I'm a bit slower to make a judgement about someone online rather than "nicer." There's a lot of things in face to face interactions like body language, tone of voice, etc. that give a better indication as to someones intent when they make an argument.
123: The problem is that I'm vain and like to brag. "Ooh, I have this blog and a lot of people read it!"
115: Keep up the sweet talk and I might just have a little something extra for you, Tim.
And I tell people about the blog now, but they all understand I'd prefer them not to read it.
131: No way would that stop me. I'd just pretend, and it would be awkward. Then we'd drift slowly apart. Then, the late night drunk dialing!
The prospect of an ex with a blog sounds dreadful.
Then, the late night drunk dialing!
Then, the stepping into the communal shower and letting the cold water zing you in the buttness.
131 - That would kill me. You should be like the girl I know with a podcast and keep asking me if I keep up with it every week. Then I'd surely flake and not read it.
then what?
Don't make me say it. You say it.
I use fewer hyperlinks in real life.
Also reactionary s/b timid.
For just about a week my dad kept a blog, and it was hilarious. I'm not sure that I ever realized my dad could be so funny—there's a print funny that doesn't come across in conversation and isn't usually the subject of our e-mails (e.g., can i borrow money, what's up with grandma, etc.). But my brother told him that people might be able to find out who he was through Google, and even though he's retired and seemed unlikely to write too much outside the realms of his family, motorcycles, and the Dallas Cowboys, this seemed like a sufficiently scary fate that he shut it down.
He is an active member of a forum loosely centered around motorcycles, so I think I inherited an interest for online communities.
120: Sex isn't dirty. Sometimes it's smelly, but not dirty.
Yeah, and let me tell you, trying to catch up around here after 10 days off is downright Sisyphean.
you try it in my apartment and then tell me how you stayed clean.
145: Tell me about it. There are threads I've had to just write off.
Oh, and I finally got around to starting with a new therapist last week, and I was trying to explain the blog to him, and he was like, "Does this blog have a theme?" And I was like, "It's kind of politics, and sex, and philosophy, and feminism, and a little bit of literature sometimes. But mostly we bloggers just put up posts to give people something to talk about, and then they wind up talking about whatever they want." "So it's like an anarchist blog?" he asked. And I said, "Sort of." I talked about my guilt about being flaky about the reading group with my therapist. Next week, I swear to God! It's just that my therapy appointment made me all excited about trying to be more disciplined at work, so I was trying to institute some changes and spend less time here. (Didja notice? Huh?) Now I'm wondering if I drop the name and my therapist becomes fascinated with me because I am so articulate and complex, he will give into temptation and read the blog. You know what? I should discuss that little bit of transferrence with my therapist.
FL invited some trolls to come by. But they didn't bring pastry. A is still clean & sober. Ogged is missing a kidney.
OT, but I watched the world cup final on a big screen outside of city hall in Boston after brunch. The celebration in the North End was teh awesome.
148. You could always say that Becks' or AWB's blogs were yours. That could be fun for a week or two.
So how was your excursion into the real world, apo?
144: It doesn't depend on how *I* do it. I impart cleanness.
So how was your excursion into the real world, apo?
Other people's children suck. Also, Hilton Head Island is entirely too fucking hot this time of year. But all in all, it was nice not to be at work and drinking during the day.
"Does this blog have a theme?" And I was like, "It's kind of politics, and sex, and philosophy, and feminism, and a little bit of literature sometimes.
The correct answer is, "it's all about COCK"
148: Tia, did you tell the therapist the name of the blog? I'm sure that one should discuss online activities with one's therapist, but I would feel weird about giving out the address and handle to my therapist. I wouldn't want the therapist to log on and see everything that I'd written.
the indian princess outfit?
No no, the rhymes-with-puffing. If I say it, I'll turn into a cascade of happily popping green goo balls.
Aw, SB, you remembered!
Of course I did. There's something else I remembered, something that falsifies Becks' "We aren't a bunch of teases", but I'm not going to say what it is.
Other people's children suck.
This is a sensitve topic.
Nice not to be drinking during the day? What a life you lead.
149 made me laugh out loud. It's funny because it's true.
Benton: I kind of think the myspace phenomenona just makes explicit a lot of the thought that different people have long gone into in presenting themselves to the world. Same as it ever was. I do wonder if the Internet helps perpetuate the false steps that a lot of people go through on that path, or if it helps people figure out who they are (or are really building to be) sooner.
I vote the former. The 'misleading feedback' factor is much much higher.
But the bizaare reinventing government style data driven coup counting of "I'm popular with people I've never met because my computer tells me so" really does freak me out a little. Its not just the score keeping, its what changes you make in yourself and your behavior to run up the score.
Well, of course it's creepy. They're arguing that a certain style of functionality-driven interaction (e.g. Myspace) constitutes a community when it does no such thing. Quite the opposite. Note that I am NOT aiming that at Unfogged, since Unfogged would be about as polar opposite as you can get and still be an 'online community'.
What is more modern than cybernarcissism?
Ah! There we go. The system perpetuates a looking glass effect. People with identity problems are going to have a severe adjustment coming. That's my point about a 'collapse'. Right now, people mostly can say no wrong about this stuff. Five years from now, you'll have all those horror stories really going full-tilt, ala cocaine madness stories during the 80's.
B: And she even says something true--"I've found that I act much as I do in real life, and my SecondLife relationships tend to fail the same way my real-life relationships do." I'm fascinated by that phenomenon.
Ah, but she says at the very beginning of the piece: "I'M 24 years old, have a good job, friends. But like many of my generation, I consistently trade actual human contact for the more reliable emotional high of smiles on MySpace..."
Considering how much time she must dedicate to tracking people, how can the first sentence be true?
Every 'Modern Fiction' I've read so far is hooked six ways from Sunday.
Come to think of it, ML sorta resembles the old-school cautionary romance stories you'd find in romance trade mags from the 50's, eh? 'I was deeply in love...WITH A BIGAMIST! by Dotty C.' [Actually Herb S. Kunkel, a 55-year-old hirsute chain-smoker.]
Cala: 3) I believe that excessive online interaction belies and I'm even willing to say causes, at least moderate depression & OCD.
I don't think it can cause OCD, although it certainly might encourage it. But the depression: yes, I can see that, certainly. And the reason should be obvious, to your basic rat-poking psych majors.
max
['I missed something somebody said.']
156: I haven't yet, but I'm sure I will. It would be kind of artificial not to ever use the name, and I don't conceal any other information like that from my therapist.
161: Yeah, 149 reads like a soap opera synopsis.
Also, SCMT got amnesia, Bitch discovered she had an long-lost evil twin sister, and Standpipe is on trial for murder.
#158
Other people's kids DO suck. As do most people's pets.
The funniest part, though, is that that really is what happened here while apo and Chopper were gone.
There it is:
IDP: 24: Every once in a while, we've trying to articulate it to each other, that is, to the several hundred people in the world, max, who do "get it," and haven't been able to.
I wasn't 24. {confused look}
max
['I'm 38!']
Other people's kids DO suck.
You people really must stop sexualizing children.
oh, I am perplexed.
the stovetop stuffing?
You people really must stop sexualizing children.
It's time to draw a Line In The Sand.
We brought along a friend of my nine-year-old because otherwise it would just be him, a toddler, and a bunch of boring adults. Turns out the other kid's a bit high-strung in the nine-year-old boy fashion, which I hereby declare a particularly annoying fashion. Then the last two days we were there, it was in-laws with four kids (and three dogs). It was like living inside a pinball machine.
Then the last two days we were there, it was in-laws with four kids (and three dogs).
But, as I recall, you think your in-laws are actually kind of cool.
People need to get a fucking grip and not bring dogs on vacation.
what is it, eb? write it backwards and nobody else will know.
Turns out the other kid's a bit high-strung in the nine-year-old boy fashion, which I hereby declare a particularly annoying fashion
Yeah, this is why I am hesitant to bring my kids friends anywhere. My kids are used to the way I talk, but some of their friends are total whiners, and don't respond well to comments like "get the fuck over it"
you think your in-laws are actually kind of cool.
175: They are, and when the kids had all gone to bed, it was quite lovely. I even like their kids (three of them, anyhow); the house we were all in just didn't provide enough separate spaces to ever get the noise below a dull roar.
I'm getting old and crotchety and like my quiet.
178: If it's the same part that I understand, it's the green goo balls. But it might not be.
I'm telling you, as the parent of a child who, though adorable, certainly has a great deal of that kind of little boy energy, if any of his friends' parents ever offers to take him on vacation with them, the invitation will be accepted with alacrity.
In other words, you have no one to blame but yourself, apo.
It may have been before your time Teo, but I thought textualist had been around for that. It's an image I'm not happy to have recalled to mind. (.tnih a rof 471 ees .tssssp)
I'm getting old and crotchety and like my quiet.
Dude, I am so there. I was twenty-four when I started hating teenagers.
Actually, B, I can blame the wife.
Damn it, I don't get the green goo balls either. Why is a raven like a writing desk? To bed, text.
I thought textualist had been around for that.
Me too. I'm shocked, shocked that he didn't remember.
I used to go to great big weekend-long drunk-fests with some people I knew from online and my offline friends who had gotten involved in the same community. They were awesome when I was 19, but I think they'd just annoy me now because for all their jovial openness, there seemed to be a sort of competition at them to see who could do the most "real" connecting with people as if to demonstrate that the online acquaintances really could be friends, a competition I did not really have words to describe at the time and thus couldn't totally recognize or avoid. Rediscovering that same atmosphere of jovial openness in an offline setting, though, was one of the things that drew me to my fraternity.
Almost all of the close offline friendships I formed starting online - people who transitioned from 'internet friend' to 'a friend I met on the intertrons' - turned sour in big ways*, driving me to avoid mixing online and offline. The only reason I ever started reading Unfogged was because apostropher told me it was a fun place. I very rarely seek out new places these days, and mainly only read/comment on the blogs of people I already know IRL. Even the online gaming I do, I do with people I've already known offline for many years. The rest of the internet is fucking crazy. For all the fun the trolls can be in the occasional thread, a part of me just hugs its arms to itself and shakes its head and wonders why these people are so eager to relive junior high.
Offline, I am much more shy than I am online, and much slower to respond with the 'pistols at dawn!' BS I've busted out here more than once. I tend to do a lot more hmphing and walking off to go smoke a cigarette and think unkind things about people than to actually say what I'm thinking. But, I majored in Performance Studies. I secretly think we are almost all, at any given time, presenting a role we think of as being at some non-negligible remove from our "real" selves.
* In fact, I am currently very actively not responding to a "random" email that is a bullshit olive branch offered by one of the people who turned out to be a timebomb but who, prior to going all asplodey on me, managed to suck up a great deal of my non-romantic emotional energy for several years.
And holy crap, the in-jokes. You people are scary at how well you remember those. Anyway, I gotta sleep too.
Psst.... You've totally gotta friend me on myspace, people.
Who said this?
On the contrary, you have described an enlightened man, Chops.
I will try that soon.
oh yes, that bugger. I've been looking for the thread for the past fifteen minutes and can't find it.
I do like me a good cold shower after a sauna.
oh yes, that bugger.
I'm delighted that it came back to you.
Wait, you mean like in 134? I wasn't around then, but I've read that thread.
Bah, I hate you all.
185 is a good point.
Are you all referring to the guy who exhibited strange shower-room protocol at university sports center?
If so, I well remember that anecdote. I even told someone about that a while back.
196 is in response to the rhymes-with-bluffing stuff(ing).
I'm totally lost.
Bend over and spread your asscheeks. We'll do the rest.
Tim's point 2 is on topic for this thread.
OMG, I was right about the huffing? That's so very disturbing.
so who's the tease then? or if you'd rather speak in code: neht esaet eht s'ohw os?
so who's the tease then?
You'd plotz if you knew!
No, it's that fellow who's been blogging the bible. Unkind of him, to tease poor Standpipe.
da, that is some fine, fine lurking.
I doubt I can guess this one, though 205 makes sense to me.
I fairly regularly meet up with a bunch of people I originally met online all loosely grouped around a couple of recording/composing/performance online musicians' forums who meet up fairly regularly - every 6 months or so - to stage a gig where everyone performs
As a result of that a fair number of those people, mostly those who live near me, have transitioned into offline friends and we meet regularly for beer, or gigs or whatever.
However, other than that, Unfogged is the only place I hang out online these days and I haven't met any Unfoggedians. I read other blogs and may, very occasionally comment on 'em, but generally I can't be bothered.
Wow at near unintelligible grammar in previous comment.
Why do people want to meet others they've encountered online? It brings me down. The whole attraction is in not having to actually know and deal with others. I've been pestered into meeting a few people that I'd encountered online, and never enjoyed it; they are invariably disappointing, as I'm sure I am as well. Right now there are a couple of others who've expressed an interest in getting together, and it's tiresome to have to put them off. I'd like to tell them that I don't meet others, as a rule, but for some reason people get offended at that.
On another note, I'm sure Hilton Head is far too hot this time of year, but what a great beach. I remember being there several years ago, riding a bike down the (then deserted) beach to the end and seeing dolphins just off the shore. On the other hand, there was, as far as I could tell, not a single place to buy anything to read at all, except a Sam's Club or something that had a few Left Behind titles lying on a table. Bizarre.
Yeah, it didn't happen this year, but I've been swimming down there before and had dolphins surface and swim by about 10-15 feet away from me.
In fact, the first time I went down there, which I think would have been fall '92, they were still taking folks out on rafts. They'd spot dolphin pods, kill the motor, and slap the side of the raft a few times. The dolphins would swim right up and eat sardines right out of your hand. Some would even let you pet them.
They stopped the raft thing because the dolphins were becoming a little too tame for their own good. While that seems like a solid policy, I was still glad to have gotten in before the curtain fell. It was a pretty amazing experience.
I know, like, everyone who works at Flavor/pill. So I think I have met the "rock my network" guy. He is, you might say, in my network.
I still haven't even figured out how to use my new forced-on-me cell phone, though, so I doubt I can rock anything.
145: Yeah, and let me tell you, trying to catch up around here after 10 days off is downright Sisyphean.
Dude, you people hung an 800-comment thread overnight when I was in Australia. (That is, it was night in Australia.) I think I'm officially renouncing my Kotsko fellowship. Though I did read all of this one.
is anyone else suspicious that Becks and Cala are really the same person?
I have explained this thing about Becks before.
Good lord, that's terrible. That's a lot of dead or injured rich people. I wonder what happened.
My first guess would be a gas line.
Wow. Holy shit is right. The article said Con Ed was on the scene before the explosion/collapse so I bet apostropher's right.
The article didn't say what sort of building it was (other than being four story). Do buildings in New York have purposes, or are they just buildings?
I gather it had a beauty salon and some doctors' offices, maybe some apartments.
Other articles say it was a doctor and dentist's office on the ground floor, and one of them is already accounted for. I hope the people who lived there had mostly left for work, and the ones who work there didn't arrive till 9 am.
Tony Snow also says gas line.
880 am reporting that there was a vacant apartment, the apartment of the doctor whose office it was (he was rescued), and the doctor's office itself hadn't been opened yet. So no one killed.
CBS says no fatalities, contrary to previous report. One person rescued from the rubble; at least six injuries including a firefighter in one other report.
A vacant apartment? In Manhattan? How freaky is that?
Now reporting that the doctor sent a 15 page suicide note to his real estate agent.
That's a joke, right? If not I feel really bad for laughing.
Maybe the letter was to the ex-wife and the real estate agent just knew about it. The gist was the ex-wife ruined his life, he was going to have to sell his practice, &c.
Well, that would be a seriously shitty way to attempt suicide and fail.
This story, which mentions the investigation of the suicide attempt, confirms that the doctor was the one pulled from the rubble. I think the dentist's office report came from public records, which may have been outdated.
Anyway, yeah, 233. And bizarre. None of the reasons I can think of to blow up the building make sense if it's known you did it on purpose.
It was a suicide attempt?!
Ho-lee shit.
235: Doctors are notoriously self-centered.
gas is a fairly classic suicide method--head in the oven, that sort of thing. The explody part is always a risk, though.
Wouldn't a doctor have lots of access to nice overdose-y medicines (and, presumably, the know-how to get the dosage right)? Or, for that matter, lots of nice sharp things to cut himself with?
Whoa. They never mention that risk of the Plath method.
If he did send the note to the real estate agent, it might indicate that he's distraught about the house, about having to sell the house. It sounds like it was on the market because of the divorce. So maybe, even if he didn't intend to blow it up, he intended to do something connected to the house.
The explosion certainly rubbled its value.
After the lawsuits, I doubt he'll have a dime left for his wife's settlement. This even if he didn't try to kill himself.
Is it really the case that no one in this thread said, "I have a profile on social networking site X under my real name"? That's odd. Until just about a month ago I couldn't have said it truthfully, but have given in. Oh, and x=facebook and I remain ambivalent about my decision to join.
I also have a facebook profile. I couldn't really resist, since a friend of mine discovered it and insisted that everyone else join as soon as it arrived at our school. I like it.
I had never even heard of facebook until I read about it in the New Yorker last month.
I heard about MySpace for the first time in December.
Why do these asshole guys always decide that destroying stuff (buildings, assets, children) is better than having to share it with their exes?
Why do these asshole guys always decide that destroying stuff (buildings, assets, children) is better than having to share it with their exes?
Wait, we're still not sure that's what he was trying to do, right?
According to the article, part of his long ranty email was basically that his golddigging ex could now dig through the ash and rubble.
And have since 2003, because I am old skool.
247: Jeebus. I hope...I don't know. I hope someone smarter than me comes up with a really fitting punishment for him, and then it happens.
Come on. Maybe she's a real skanky stupid two-timing bitch.
Well, to give him his due, at least he didn't burn his own children or throw them out a window. He almost killed someone *else's* baby, but hey, accidents happen.
250: I hope that somehow the ex manages to get the insurance company pay out, but everything goes to her.
The fire pretty much cleared out the lot. I suspect a fresh lot in that neighborhood will still fetch a bunch of dough.