It's a joke at the expense of Owen Wilson's surfer-stoner persona. (Did you know that? Am I missing some extra layer of irony?)
Compare this letter to Steely Dan's letter campaign to get into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.
I knew there had to be some joke there, but I wasn't sure where exactly, since it was linked from the front page. They really are pissed about the song-movie relationship, though, right?
They really are pissed about the song-movie relationship, though, right?
Well, I don't go threatening people with the wrath of a Russian Navy SEAL-type until I get very, very upset.
Also, since Owen Wilson doesn't actually talk that way, it's kind of an incomprehensible joke. We will defend the Butterscotch Stallion at all costs!
I also read it as an attempt by Steely Dan to be relevant at any cost.
After reading through those links, I get the schtick, which is lame.
Dude, you're a philosophy professor. Either give us some technical definition of "lame," or vary your word choice and dazzle us with your the breadth of your vocabulary.
They really are pissed about the song-movie relationship, though, right?
Your guess is as good as mine and probably better. I couldn't hum or even name a single Steely Dan song; I just happened to have seen these letters linked somewhere else yesterday.
I think they're moderately though not exceedingly funny. I warm to a celebrity who writes prank letters to people.
Owen Wilson doesn't actually talk that way
It's a broad-brush effort, to be sure. On the other hand here are your Results 1 - 100 of about 11,600 for owen wilson stoner persona.
You're right. I should have called it "gay."
I acknowledge 10's thing of lameness mine
I would have gone with "sad," but you're the professor.
I couldn't hum or even name a single Steely Dan song
This is the saddest sentence I've read in a long, long time. Granted, most Steely Dan songs aren't exactly what you'd call "hummable." But still. My heart goes out to you.
"I couldn't hum or even name a single Steely Dan song"
There's always "Sign In Stranger" (#15 in the first list).
Besides, who among us does not love song titles like "Daddy Don't Live In That New York City No More" or "Hey Nineteen"?
There's always "Sign In Stranger" (#15 in the first list).
Thanks. How does it go? Someone hum it for me.
Actually, I notice there are more steely dan song titles in the thread below this one.
How does it go? Someone hum it for me.
Uh, that's beyond my abilities to hum music (which are shockingly poor) someone else want to give it a go?
(you can hear a sample here)
They're just fucking around, as they do constantly. The Steely Dan guys have virtually never said or written a non-ironic word in public, including the lyrics to all of their songs.
Whether you actually think they're funny is another matter. I think the music and lyrics to nearly all their songs are virtually genius, but their public persona in the latter-day Steely Dan phase (late 90s to present) is kind of hit-or-miss where humor is concerned.
I so don't care about any of this.
I just have to say that Owen Wilson's performance, along with that of his brother Luke's, in The Life Aquatic, With Steve Zissou, is fucking awesome, and that that movie is my second favorite Wes Anderson film ever.
Which is to say, my second favorite film of all time.
"Well, I don't go threatening people with the wrath of a Russian Navy SEAL-type until I get very, very upset."
I see this as a Clerks reference, regardless as to whether it actually is.
Since, of course, Chasing Amy is also somewhere in my top twenty.
Discuss.
A lot of people don't get Anderson, but they're so utterly unperceptive.
The lyrics to the song Cousin Dupree are nothing like the plot to the "me you and Dupree" movie. I like steely dan alot, but in real life they are kind of dickheads.
I see this as a Clerks reference, regardless as to whether it actually is.
It wasn't intended as a reference, but I guess the tone is similar to that of Randall's sarcasm. What made you react that way?
Hey I once got in a fight with a co-worker about whether we should play my tape of the Dan (which IIRC was "Pretzel Logic") on the bakery's tape player or the local Smoove Jazz station.
What Chris B. said in 18, except I disagree with the assertion that their humor is hit-or-miss. I saw the letter last week and not only laughed but sent the URL to another Dan fan.
Since we're discussing Steely Dan, allow me to take this opportunity to recommend that any Dan fans who have not already done so should get themselves a copy of Donald Fagen's new solo album, Morph the Cat. It is uniformly excellent.
I'm pretty sure Steely Dan are not now and never have been aging hippies.
Also, who can't hum "With a Gun", or the song with the line "I would love to tour the Southland"?
never have been aging hippies.
They've always been pretty anti-hippie, haven't they?
26: Indeed. "Bodhisattva" is just one example of a song of theirs that slyly disses hippiedom. Another, better one is "Kid Charlemagne", though it's a bit more human and is probably equal parts satire and story.
Hey I once got in a fight with a co-worker about whether we should play my tape of the Dan (which IIRC was "Pretzel Logic") on the bakery's tape player or the local Smoove Jazz station.
If I'd worked in that bakery I would have had to kill both of you.
I hope this turns out to be one of those threads in which the people we're discussing show up and comment.
I hope this turns out to be one of those threads in which the people we're discussing show up and comment.
Now I'm afraid I'll cry if that doesn't happen.
.... It's not going to happen, is it?
How to get a job as Owen Wilson's butt double.
31: I now realize that my life will not be complete until I can put "ass doppelgänger" on my resumé.
Let me tell y'all about my state-of-the-art missile-guidance thingie. I just call it the Doobie Dan, because I can't remember any of the stupid lyrics from the stupid songs those guys sang.
The Jeff Baxter sock puppet is in the house!
32: I volunteered to be this guy's nut-double, but I've gotten no response.
"It wasn't intended as a reference, but I guess the tone is similar to that of Randall's sarcasm. What made you react that way?"
Complete irrationality, and watching the original cut via Netflix.
I wanted to comment to point out the complete inappropriateness of the "hippy" comment, only to see that it had been done; but I will now only note that I like their joint efforts very much but have never been able to enjoy the solo work. I think the first two solo Fagen albums, for instance, are quite overrated.
Yes, I acknowledge that "hippy" is not applicable here. My apologies to those two old fucks.
How can anyone like Steely Dan? is this a guy thing, like liking Frank Zappa? And if so, innate, or cultural?
It's a guy think, sort of like Slayer.
How can anyone like Steely Dan? is this a guy thing, like liking Frank Zappa?
In both cases there, it's a matter of a very high level of composition and instrumental chops. Much, much higher than the median in rock music. I haven't noticed Steely Dan being a guy thing, though I realize it's there for Zappa.
The also have a lack of oomph. Sort of a detached meta-music.
41: Why should a higher level of compositional skill and instrumental chops be unappealing to women? It's kind of strange.
I think SteelyDan is a guy thing though--I notice I'm the only woman posting on this thread so far, and I'm only here because I hate them so much.
Unless Chris B is a girl.
No, I'm a guy.
While it could likely be shown that Steely Dan statistically appeals to more men than women (that would match my anecdotal observations, even though I do know a few women who are passionate fans), I also know some men who pretty much loathe everything that Steely Dan represents in rock music.
So what is it about them? I could make a few points, and maybe in the aggregate they provide some explanation. Now, none of these characteristics would have occurred to me as being more likely to appeal to men than women, but instead to appeal to people who are just aesthetically predisposed to like this kind of thing. This includes me, but excludes a lot of other people I know.
-- They seem to avoid sincerity in their lyrical content at all costs. Virtually not a one of their lyrics gives the impression of being written from the straightforward point of view of the two guys who actually write all the songs. Instead, the lyrics are novelistic, making up characters and telling stories. The characters themselves are, in a huge proportion of cases, deadbeats.
-- The music itself invariably privileges technical accomplishment over the passion and spontaneity that normally characterizes the best rock music. So it's not simply that the music displays compositional skill and instrumental chops, but that those things come at a price. Steely Dan is all about clean.
-- The protagonists of the stories they tell are men. The songs that feature female characters prominently always do so from a male point of view. I would argue that there are a good many well-rounded male characters in their output and none such female characters whatsoever.
-- One doesn't even entirely get the sense that the music itself is without irony. The appropriation of the "smooth" sound (though with a lot of tricky jazz stuff built in) seems like it might be a joke, even. Everything about what they do seems designed to keep honest displays of feeling and humanity at least one layer of abstraction away from the surface.
mcmc, I'm totally curious to know what specific aspect of Steely Dan's music inspires your loathing, if you have any sense for what it might be.
It's hard to say, exactly., but I think it's partly the "smooth" thing, which I find simultaneously sinister and tedious, like a coke party that's gone on for too long. (At least, that's what I've heard. About coke parties)
Why should a higher level of compositional skill and instrumental chops be unappealing to women?
It wouldn't. That was in response to "How can anyone like Steely Dan?"
(or Frank Zappa - I own about 50 Zappa CDs, fwiw)
mcmc: I'm a woman too and I hate Steely Dan. I also hate Frank Zappa. And Rush.
It really is a gendered thing, and I don't know why.
Yeah, I can see that. I was somewhat put off by the smoothness until I started listening with my jazz ears, evaluating the music on somewhat different grounds than I would evaluate straight-up rock. I kind of think the coke party thing is more or less what the music is supposed to sound like -- a little bit forbidding in its polish and irony and (sometimes) obscurity) -- so at that point it becomes simply a matter of taste.
Normally I don't listen to music with lyrics at all, except for opera and classical art songs, if that gives you any idea of where I'm coming from.
49 to 45, and ignore ) after "obscurity."
I guess I'm a girl.
Steely Dan has lots of irony and detachment, though. The Steely Dan / Zappa people I've known wanted to get away from the corny / funky / animal / butthead aspect of rock n roll, and many were musicians who just admired the skill.
My idea of the anti-Zappa is Jim Morrison, who was actually quite talented but made every effort to stay in touch with his crass, animal, butthead side -- he overlaid it with pretentiousnesa, but it was butthead pretentiousness.
Apo, I think you must have double X (or is it double Y) music chromosomes. 50 Zappa records!
Chris B, yes, I agree that it's supposed to sound like that, and it creeps me out. I should think it was too tedious to really make it with jazz fans, but although there is some jazz I love, a lot of it, too, is a mystery to me.
DA, Yes, I'm not sure why either. I just intuit that to be the case, with my womany intuition.
I get kind of obsessively completist with certain artists. Zappa, Elvis Costello, and Tom Waits take up a lot of space on the shelves.
Emerson, you can hang out in our tree-house any time. The Zappa/Morrison comparison is interesting. But I kind of think Zappa is a butthead too.
Fine-tuning my observation here. Emerson, it doesn't mean you're a girl. Lots of men don't like these bands either (my ex has a visceral hatred for Steely Dan, e.g.). What I've observed is that no women like them.
53: I can totally get behind completism for Costello and Waits. I think I must just accept that this Zappa mystery is one I'll never get.
Hm. So if no girls like X, that doesn't mean that all guys like X. Never though of it that way, I though reality was binary. I guess I'm some kind of deviant or invert, then.
Zappa is a guy whose music can be explained. Dada, blues, electronic music, roots rock, Coltrane -- it's footnotable and he switches from one to another so footnotes are useful. You can also listen to the instruments and say "That's sort of like X.....", though I never got that far.
Zappa wasn't the kind of butthead who would, for example, ask a total stranger to have sex in a public place, or nod out in a restaurant and puke on himself. I mean, Morrison did it up big time.
No sly personal references to any one here implied or intended.
I've observed is that no women like them.
I know counterexamples.
57: Excellent! Communication has worked.
Apo: did they genuinely like them or were they trying for "token woman" status?
No, they genuinely liked them. Far more with Steely Dan than Zappa, though.
61: Apo will have to get back to Susan Apocryphal and Mary Anecdotal and ask them.
I also know counterexamples, although this may be more because of my having sought out such persons on the intarwebs than because of having happened to meet them in the course of offline life. And the liking is genuine, so far as I can tell.
I think I am alone in this thread in my not feeling strongly one way or the other about Steely Dan. I like their music, nice beat, fun to listen to; but I couldn't reliably name any of their songs to you except for like "Reeling in the Years" and one or two others; I think the extent of my Dan collection is the forementioned cassette tape of Pretzel Logic that I taped off a friend's album. And I mainly did that just because I liked the album cover. I did get a kick in college however out of mentioning that they were named after a dildo in Naked Lunch whenever the band came up in conversation.
Chris, a lot of those 13-year-old chicks you talk to on the internet are actually FBI agents.
13-year-old female FBI agents, maybe. And we only talk about Steely Dan.
As they pointed out somewhere, better that than Limp Bizkit.