Re: Going Soft

1

How does Buffalo lose on a safety?


Posted by: Matt Weiner | Link to this comment | 09-10-06 2:31 PM
horizontal rule
2

I've always had this reaction to football. Rough play in other sports (basketball, watching kids in Samoa play rugby) doesn't bother me, but in football it seems like every play has some hit that looks as if it would be crippling.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 09-10-06 2:48 PM
horizontal rule
3

Ultimate.


Posted by: Megan | Link to this comment | 09-10-06 3:06 PM
horizontal rule
4

I'm going soft, Megan, not world-historically flaccid.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 09-10-06 3:13 PM
horizontal rule
5

My hand was in a cast longer the time I jammed my thumb playing ultimate than the time I broke my finger playing (touch) football.


Posted by: Matt Weiner | Link to this comment | 09-10-06 3:21 PM
horizontal rule
6

I guess that settles it. And all the tough guys should take up cycling.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 09-10-06 3:23 PM
horizontal rule
7

We already have, o.


Posted by: JRoth | Link to this comment | 09-10-06 3:24 PM
horizontal rule
8

Are the injuries really more serious nowadays? I'd've actually guessed not, especially with the various rule-changes (e.g. allowing the QB to dump the ball when he's outside of the box), improved medical attention, longer recuperation time due to TV time-outs and so forth.

[It's certainly not "Flying Wedge" vicious, that's for sure, although that's not saying much.]


Posted by: Anarch | Link to this comment | 09-10-06 3:25 PM
horizontal rule
9

4: Hard to believe you went so long without resetting the TiVo.


Posted by: SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 09-10-06 3:27 PM
horizontal rule
10

Football? Today's tennis day.


Posted by: Michael | Link to this comment | 09-10-06 3:27 PM
horizontal rule
11

Funny you should say that. I played football, well, through my teens. I liked belonging to a high-status group, and being given the credit that went with that. But the game itself bored me, and I don't watch it.

I love the strategy, the chance and timing, and the sustained effort of competitive cycling as a spectator sport, and I love how cycling feels.


Posted by: I don't pay | Link to this comment | 09-10-06 3:31 PM
horizontal rule
12

I have the same basic response as you, ogged, except what bothers me is less the big hits than the horrendous legs at wrong angle plays. Yet, here I am watching...

As to Matt's 1, the answer is: through the workings of a beneficent providence. New England was very, very fortunate to win that game.


Posted by: baa | Link to this comment | 09-10-06 3:31 PM
horizontal rule
13

Flaccid?


Posted by: Megan | Link to this comment | 09-10-06 3:34 PM
horizontal rule
14

For some reason I find it hilarious that there's a magazine called Chasing Plastic.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 09-10-06 3:39 PM
horizontal rule
15

10: Andy Roddick makes me ashamed to be an American.


Posted by: SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 09-10-06 3:39 PM
horizontal rule
16

horrendous legs at wrong angle plays

Yeah, this too, totally.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 09-10-06 3:39 PM
horizontal rule
17

Today's tennis day.

I'm switching back and forth, but only because Federer is playing.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 09-10-06 3:40 PM
horizontal rule
18

Why Tim? Also, Federer is almost certainly going to wax him, so have some pity.


Posted by: baa | Link to this comment | 09-10-06 3:41 PM
horizontal rule
19

Flaccid!

You said it, not me.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 09-10-06 3:43 PM
horizontal rule
20

Roddick looks like he might win the set, so I'd already be wrong about the match.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 09-10-06 3:44 PM
horizontal rule
21

New England was very, very fortunate to win that game.

True. But remember, losing is what the Bills do. I was frustrated during the first half, but once the second got going, I felt pretty good that the Pats would be find a way to win. And no doubt at all about what to do on that final forth down.

What I was wondering was how the hell did the Ravens manage to score 27 points, but now I see that at least 14 of that was by defense and special teams, so it makes sense. Not a happy day in Tampa. But then, who the hell cares?

I worry about the injuries as well, but my lord, I'm so ready for football.


Posted by: JL | Link to this comment | 09-10-06 3:46 PM
horizontal rule
22

Last I looked ('till now) it was first set, 5-0. I stopped watching, because I didn't want to see Federer having sex on Center Court with Roddick's girlfriend between sets.


Posted by: SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 09-10-06 3:47 PM
horizontal rule
23

What I was wondering was how the hell did the Ravens manage to score 27 points, but now I see that at least 14 of that was by defense and special teams, so it makes sense.

This is why I always say that if the defense scores a touchdown, it should count as negative 7 points for the other team, instead of 7 points for the defense's team. This would make it truly clear how good the Bears defense was last year.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 09-10-06 3:47 PM
horizontal rule
24

pff. Roddick started slow, but is doing awesome. Hope he wins the set.


Posted by: Michael | Link to this comment | 09-10-06 3:48 PM
horizontal rule
25

because I didn't want to see Federer having sex on Center Court with Roddick's girlfriend between sets.

bullshit. I bet you would totally want to watch that.


Posted by: Michael | Link to this comment | 09-10-06 3:50 PM
horizontal rule
26

22 might be your best comment ever, Timbot.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 09-10-06 3:51 PM
horizontal rule
27

He's not still dating Hilary Duff, is he?


Posted by: baa | Link to this comment | 09-10-06 3:51 PM
horizontal rule
28

I don't think so.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 09-10-06 4:00 PM
horizontal rule
29

There was a story, maybe on sportscenter, a few years ago about the build up of the effects of concussions over time. Apparently a not insignificant number of football players and former football players sometimes find themselves unable to remember their phone numbers or how to get home after going out, and a few take the extra step of carrying that information with them on a card in case of a lapse.


Posted by: eb | Link to this comment | 09-10-06 4:08 PM
horizontal rule
30

Are the injuries really more serious nowadays?

I think the claimed problem is simply that people are much bigger and much stronger than in the past.


Posted by: SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 09-10-06 4:11 PM
horizontal rule
31

For some reason, I'm surprised that Tiger Woods wears his hat backwards.


Posted by: Michael | Link to this comment | 09-10-06 4:21 PM
horizontal rule
32

Totally agree that the concussion issue is wicked creepy. Former Pittsburgh FB Merril Hodge (I think) tells the story of havign breakfast the day after a big hit. He lifts a forkful of eggs, but they're too hot, so he's blowing on them to cool them off. He's blowing, and blowing, and then realizes that he has actually got an orange on the end of his fork.

Off topic, how irritating is it to hear Jimmy Conners constantly lauded for his competitveness and old statesmen-ness? When he played, he was a jerk.

Last, can it really be true that the "not nice" thread is discussing linda hirshman now? Weird.


Posted by: baa | Link to this comment | 09-10-06 4:23 PM
horizontal rule
33

I think they've stopped.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 09-10-06 4:24 PM
horizontal rule
34

I would say that a close reading of the thread, which I wouldn't advise anyone to engage in, would reveal it as not particularly a discussion of Hirshman.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 09-10-06 4:27 PM
horizontal rule
35

More a meta-discussion, really. With lots of animosity.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 09-10-06 4:28 PM
horizontal rule
36

Yeah, I don't like the severity and frequency of the injuries either. And the championship pretty much comes down to The Healthiest Team Wins.

This is one of the reasons that I've been enjoying college football more. The injuries just don't seem to be as devastating. And as a bonus: field goal attempts are far iffier and more exciting.


Posted by: Mo MacArbie | Link to this comment | 09-10-06 4:30 PM
horizontal rule
37

ogged, maybe you should try rugby. the snees clan went to a club match yesterday -- i.e., nowhere near the level of the NFL or college football -- and we saw a guy collapse with a fit.

that might have put me off the sport, but we spent much of the first half chatting with the massive back who was positioned near us. because of his white hair and pasty complexion, his teammates had dubbed him chalky. if we had had the time, we probably would have spent three or four hours downing pints with him in the most civilized manner.


Posted by: peter snees | Link to this comment | 09-10-06 4:31 PM
horizontal rule
38

Whatever. How much must it kill McEnroe to hear all the plaudits Connors is getting?


Posted by: SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 09-10-06 4:31 PM
horizontal rule
39

That's a big plus I hadn't thought of Tim. Thanks!



Posted by: baa | Link to this comment | 09-10-06 4:40 PM
horizontal rule
40

You don't like McEnroe? He doesn't seem like a very good person in a lot of respects, but I can't help but like him.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 09-10-06 4:48 PM
horizontal rule
41

I don't really deeply dislike McEnroe, but it irks me when legitimately irritating athletes get better press than those who don't strut, don't scream at the umpire, and don't throw childish tantrums.


Posted by: baa | Link to this comment | 09-10-06 4:53 PM
horizontal rule
42

36: College ball is actually more brutal, I think, because they're so much shallower than the pro teams. The Badgers were basically one injury away from playing iron man on the line last year.


Posted by: Anarch | Link to this comment | 09-10-06 4:56 PM
horizontal rule
43

Roddick has got to stop coming to net. Federer is picking him to pieces up there.


Posted by: baa | Link to this comment | 09-10-06 4:59 PM
horizontal rule
44

I should add, incidentally, that the only time I was ever concussed was during a game of flag football.


Posted by: Anarch | Link to this comment | 09-10-06 5:24 PM
horizontal rule
45

Would it kill them to once, just once, one tiny little time, to, when they're talking to/about Federer, not say "the best ever"? It's silly and tiresome.


Posted by: Michael | Link to this comment | 09-10-06 5:24 PM
horizontal rule
46

41: Are you really distinguishing between McEnroe and Connors on the basis of tantrums?


Posted by: SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 09-10-06 5:33 PM
horizontal rule
47

I didn't mean to make any such distinction. I don't *deeply* dislike Conners either.

Michael, it's not such a crazy claim given what Federer has done and how good he is. At 25 Sampras had 8 Grand Slam titles...


Posted by: baa | Link to this comment | 09-10-06 5:55 PM
horizontal rule
48

oh, I'm not denying it. I'm just sick of it being pointed out every couple of hours.


Posted by: Michael | Link to this comment | 09-10-06 6:00 PM
horizontal rule
49

So you're saying he's better than Rod Laver? And you say that based on what, exactly, Michael? And the man who's fourth in line to succeed the leader of the military wing of Hamas, do you know his name? You ignorant ass.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 09-10-06 6:37 PM
horizontal rule
50

That kind of acrimonious tone should be reserved for threads on feminism in which everyone is agreed on 99% of all issues of substance.


Posted by: baa | Link to this comment | 09-10-06 6:41 PM
horizontal rule
51

The strength and speed differences even from 30 years ago are tremendous. The powerlifting aspects of training are light years better, and throw in chemical enhancement on top of that, and it's bad news for those hits. We're also drawing from a bigger population, so what used to be freakishly large becomes normal.


Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 09-10-06 6:50 PM
horizontal rule
52

And tennis is for poofs.


Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 09-10-06 6:52 PM
horizontal rule
53

insofar as we like to see whether a plan for a team will come together

I always pictured you more as Murdock than Hannibal, ogged.


Posted by: Josh | Link to this comment | 09-10-06 7:31 PM
horizontal rule
54

Huh. I always assumed ogged was Face.


Posted by: SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 09-10-06 7:34 PM
horizontal rule
55

You likey the A-Team reference? Definitely more Face than Murdock.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 09-10-06 7:42 PM
horizontal rule
56

remember, losing is what the Bills do.

I don't know shit about football and I know this.


Posted by: Paul | Link to this comment | 09-10-06 8:42 PM
horizontal rule
57

49: You can't pull the wool over my eyes, Ogged. "Rod Laver" is obviously a gay porn star.

I'm not sure about the second query, but my guess is "mel gibson".


Posted by: Michael | Link to this comment | 09-10-06 9:24 PM
horizontal rule
58

ogged is definitely the faceman. when you guys have to bust me out of the mental ward, you should use ogged to distract the nurses. he'll pull that whole "hey, wanna see my groove" thing. it's like colt .45 malt liquor: works every time.


Posted by: alameida | Link to this comment | 09-11-06 2:43 AM
horizontal rule
59

I don't really deeply dislike McEnroe, but it irks me when legitimately irritating athletes get better press than those who don't strut, don't scream at the umpire, and don't throw childish tantrums.

yes indeed, what everyone wants to see is an eternal tape loop of Sampras versus Rafter, chugging along until the end of time while we all have a screaming, weeping orgasm at their sheer professionalism. FFS.

in related news, suck it in, you pencil necked bastard. The injuries are the only interesting thing in American football. What it really needs is a few lions on the pitch to liven things up. Wait until the penny drops and the NFL starts realising that you can hire Maori rugby players for cents in the dollar. Then it will get violent.


Posted by: dsquared | Link to this comment | 09-11-06 4:52 AM
horizontal rule
60

There's a couple of dozen Samoans in the NFL. I doubt if they're qualitatively wimpier than Maori All Blacks. Expect a trend. However, pacific islanders outside American Samoa will probably continue to prefer Rugby unless the financial incentives are massive, because it's a faster, better game.


Posted by: OneFatEnglishman | Link to this comment | 09-11-06 5:51 AM
horizontal rule
61

And requires less equipment. With a ball and a field, you're playing rugby. You're not really playing american football unless you have the pads and the helmets -- all the hitting is completely different.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 09-11-06 6:09 AM
horizontal rule
62

It's ironic that it's the mountains of protective gear that actually cause the vast majority of the injuries in the NFL.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 09-11-06 7:09 AM
horizontal rule
63

Well, to the extent that the equipment makes the harder hitting possible. I mean, rugby's rough, but it's not the same sort of impacts.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 09-11-06 7:52 AM
horizontal rule
64

I wish I could have seen a football game in the no substitution era. A really fast moving American football game would be quite entertaining, I think. It was a different game.


Posted by: text | Link to this comment | 09-11-06 8:01 AM
horizontal rule
65

58: You shouldn't talk about malt liquor without referencing this.


Posted by: SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 09-11-06 8:06 AM
horizontal rule
66

There's a couple of dozen Samoans in the NFL. I doubt if they're qualitatively wimpier than Maori All Blacks.

Although the All Blacks do consistently kick Manu Samoa's ass, don't they? But I think that's professionalism and coaching, not inherent agressiveness.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 09-11-06 8:13 AM
horizontal rule
67

Plus, the All-Blacks consistently poach a lot of the best players from the islands.

re: 63

Yes, the harder hitting but also the bulk and rigidity of the shoulder-pads themselves.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 09-11-06 8:17 AM
horizontal rule
68

It's been thirty-five years since I've played with pads on, but the significance of armor, and the changes its wrought over time with design and materials development, really must be a big part of the difference in the game, as much as the changes in conditioning mentioned above. I wonder if any attempt has been made to play with different pads? It seems an obvious experiment.


Posted by: I don't pay | Link to this comment | 09-11-06 8:39 AM
horizontal rule
69

In my personal experience, Samoans are actually sweethearts. I once taught a college summer course for football players; it was exactly as awful as you'd imagine, except for the Samoan quarterback.

Although funnily enough, despite being the quarterback, he didn't really seem to feel compelled to do anything to try to talk the other guys into cutting out the asshole act.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 09-11-06 8:41 AM
horizontal rule
70

69 I'm sure every Polynesian is born with a heart of gold. But they leave it in the locker room when they're playing rugby.


Posted by: OneFatEnglishman | Link to this comment | 09-11-06 8:48 AM
horizontal rule
71

69, 70: Mmmm. IME, the combination of gentle, sweet, and kind and having a stunning capacity for violence is not an implausible one.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 09-11-06 9:29 AM
horizontal rule
72

Hmmm, out of the many Samoan football players, almost none are quarterbacks. #69 may be overly revealing of your identity.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 09-11-06 9:39 AM
horizontal rule
73

59 is onto something. There are lots of American football players from American Samoa (or with parents from there), but not many from the independent Polynesian countries. This article suggests that the recruitment of football players from Western Samoa is just beginning, and Western Samoa has way more people than American Samoa.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 09-11-06 9:45 AM
horizontal rule
74

I considered that was a possiblity, but I'm accustomed to assume that the various clues that get dropped here are less likely to lead a stalker to hunt me down than if I dropped them on my own blog. But thanks.

That's interesting, though. I have no idea if he's gone on to play pro, but he was in fact a really nice kid.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 09-11-06 9:49 AM
horizontal rule
75

And they're prettier, better brought up, sing better, and on average can kick American Samoans' asses.

But it's not going to happen unless some outside organization sets up and funds an American football program in Western Samoa. There's no tradition of playing Am. football - all the coaching would have to come from somewhere else - and funding for necessary equipment would be a huge problem.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 09-11-06 9:53 AM
horizontal rule
76

On the other hand, I'm more than 10 years out of touch. There could be American football all over the land of the Forbidden Chicken, and I wouldn't know.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 09-11-06 9:58 AM
horizontal rule
77

I read an article in the last few years that pro's are wearing much lighter pads because of the premium on speed. I can't find it, and I can't remember if they had evidence of increasing injuries or just worries.


Posted by: cw | Link to this comment | 09-11-06 12:45 PM
horizontal rule
78

58: Is the rumor that's going around true? Word has it that ogged takes it in the face. That figures, what with the goggle tan and all.


Posted by: peter snees | Link to this comment | 09-11-06 3:33 PM
horizontal rule
79

I read an article a while back about the increase in rugby injuries.* The authors put it down to the increasing size of the backs -- the small, quick, skillful guys -- combined with the increasing speed of the forwards -- the huge, slow, lumbering guys.

Now, you find teams with 200lb backs who can run 100 metres in more than respectable college-level sprint times and 18 stone forwards who aren't hugely slower.

Even leaving aside guys like Jonah Lomu who was 273 lbs and could run 100 metres in 10.8 seconds, the modern rugby player is really quick and really heavy compared to those who went before.

* Although as far as I know serious career-ending rugby injuries are still rarer than in American Football.


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 09-11-06 3:38 PM
horizontal rule
80

I keep seeing this thread on the left side-bar, and it reminds me of the cock thread.


Posted by: yoyo | Link to this comment | 09-11-06 3:54 PM
horizontal rule
81

59: I think it was the Denver Broncos that tried to poach Jonah Lomu from the All-Blacks about five years ago. Didn't go anywhere but in the future, who knows?


Posted by: Anarch | Link to this comment | 09-11-06 6:03 PM
horizontal rule
82

Hrmpfh. Tongans.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 09-11-06 6:04 PM
horizontal rule
83

I was on a rugby team where the year before, an opposing player broke his neck during a game. I don't think rugby is completely safe.


Posted by: joeo | Link to this comment | 09-11-06 6:12 PM
horizontal rule
84

Oh, I used to tape the kids together after the games (as the possessor of a US government issued roll of adhesive tape and some disinfectant, I was kind of the school nurse.) But it's still a different kind of hitting from football.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 09-11-06 6:15 PM
horizontal rule
85

To the best of my knowledge all the talk about Lomu going to American football was a beatup by his manager, trying to get him more money from rugby. (Since he was easily the highest-paid rugby player anyway, this was pushing it a bit.) You'd imagine that any Polynesian who did go into football would have to do so at the college level. It's hard to imagine any rugby player good enough to get a professional contract taking a chance on a new sport, even though the potential money is so much greater.


Posted by: Basil Valentine | Link to this comment | 09-11-06 8:34 PM
horizontal rule
86

horrendous legs at wrong angle plays

Yeah, this too, totally.

Uh, yeah. Two injuries like that in nine months ended MY career ... at the ripe old age of 14.

And then there's the preseason Super Bowl favorite Panthers' starting left tackle, Travelle Wharton, who blew out his knee Sunday and is done for the year. (For the non-fan, the left tackle protects a right-handed quarterback's blind side and is therefore the most valuable of the five offensive interior linemen.)

concussions

Yes, and then there's the preseason Super Bowl favorite Panthers' starting middle linebacker, Dan Morgan, who suffered at least his seventh concussion in five years Sunday and is out indefinitely. (For the non-fan, middle linebacker runs most NFL defenses; in a good defense, he'll typically lead the team in tackles over the course of a season.)

And then there's the preseason Super Bowl favorite Panthers' starting wideout, Steve Smith, the league's best receiver, who isn't playing because of a "tweaked" hamstring and recovery from surgery from an ingrown toenail.

Not that I am bitter. At all.


Posted by: Lex | Link to this comment | 09-12-06 12:38 PM
horizontal rule