Re: They Get All The Good Stuff

1

OMG! You're listed:

"Being 5’10’’ and weighing in at about 125 pounds, I’m a pretty skinny guy. I’m planning, when I can afford it, to join a gym and go on a protein diet beginning within the next 12 months. I’m not trying to get ripped, just gain a few healthy pounds. My goal is 135 to 145 pounds."
.


Posted by: SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 11:22 AM
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Jesus, ogged, National Coming Out Day was yesterday. Welcome to the fold anyway.


Posted by: Robust McManlyPants | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 11:24 AM
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Around here, it's an ongoing project.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 11:25 AM
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I thought it was the lesbians who were into the folds.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 11:32 AM
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Sheep, too.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 11:33 AM
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Lesbians are into sheep? This is news to me.


Posted by: Clownæsthesiologist | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 11:35 AM
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No, no. Sheep are into folds. Sheepfolds.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 11:36 AM
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You just happened to be scoping out the best gay sites?


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 11:41 AM
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Being 5’10’’ and weighing in at about 125 pounds...

Ok, my honey is going to have to prove his heterosexuality tonight.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 11:42 AM
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Follow the links, o calabat.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 11:43 AM
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We would like you to check our new megite site [spammer link removed] with the following improvements.

1. Better discovery algorithm

2. Better clustering algorithm

3. Better quality of title and summary generation

4. Better snapshot image extraction

5. The river of news, a constant flow of what's new by using crowdsourcing

6. More categories are added


Posted by: matthew | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 11:43 AM
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Yeah, I get the article, but not the followup checking out the sites. 'Making my way through the list' sounds like such an arduous task.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 11:45 AM
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'Making my way through the list' sounds like such an arduous task.

There's no point in setting you people up for jokes anymore, is there?


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 11:46 AM
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At Unfogged, even the spammers are named Matt!


Posted by: Clownæsthesiologist | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 11:47 AM
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There's no point in setting you people up for jokes anymore, is there?

I just figured you'd been stricken by nostalgia for your teenage gay panic.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 11:57 AM
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Ogged, do your rules for dating women apply to men? i.e. would you date a Russian man?


Posted by: Michael | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 12:39 PM
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In heels? With a big ass?


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 12:40 PM
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on an unrelated note, I would totally support a law that would allow me to shoot smokers. I just arrived at a cafe, chose to sit outside b/c it's nice; plants and shit, good air. Then, the punk-ass bitch next to me lights up. Thanks for ruining it for me, punk-ass bitch.


Posted by: Michael | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 12:41 PM
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I take it that the Animotion thread actually reached some concrete conclusions.


Posted by: tom | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 12:46 PM
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I just figured you'd been stricken by nostalgia for your teenage gay panic.

In order for him to have been stricken by nostalgia, doesn't the panic have to have ended in the first place? I assumed this was just further smoldering.


Posted by: mike d | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 12:51 PM
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Don't think me immoral, though. I would, of course, eat my kill.


Posted by: Michael | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 12:51 PM
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So are you saying you would only shoot hott smokers?


Posted by: Clownæsthesiologist | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 12:53 PM
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That's gross, Clown. No, I mean I carry a knife.


Posted by: Michael | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 12:56 PM
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I watched an Anthony Bourdain episode where he joined a native family as they threw a fresh seal carcass on the kitchen floor, all crouched around it, and then just had at it. It was probably the bloodiest, most macabre scene I've ever watched. Totally awesome.


Posted by: Michael | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 1:03 PM
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If there are no objections, I'm declaring victory in this thread.


Posted by: Michael | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 1:40 PM
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I object.


Posted by: sam k | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 2:21 PM
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18: That was me. Feel free to move to a different table.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 2:23 PM
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See, I was just standing up for B.


Posted by: sam k | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 2:28 PM
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Smokers are the most selfish people on earth. I'd feel so much better if I could find someone to equally annoy them. It's the powerlessness of this situation that's so aggravating. They can ruin my lunch, but I have no means of acceptable retaliation. Ok, maybe they don't need to die, but surely everyone can agree that I should at least be allowed to kneecap a smoker once in a while.


Posted by: Michael | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 2:32 PM
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"someone" s/b "something"


Posted by: Michael | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 2:32 PM
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I tell you what. Let us have the inside back and you can keep the outdoors.


Posted by: Chopper | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 2:35 PM
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I'll let you smoke in the port-a-potties.


Posted by: Michael | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 2:37 PM
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And around gas pumps.


Posted by: Michael | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 2:38 PM
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Your mom gets cranky when I hang out where she's trying to pick up tricks.


Posted by: Chopper | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 2:39 PM
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that's b/c she's not a smoker.


Posted by: Michael | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 2:39 PM
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You're goddamn right I'm selfish. Move to a different table. Oh, and while we're at it, you can bite me.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 2:41 PM
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Oh, and don't worry, Michael: you annoy the hell out of me on a regular basis.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 2:43 PM
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I guess it's clear that my hatred of cigarette smoke is pretty intense. I just want to make clear that this is not at all an intellectual thing. I mean, sure second-hand smoke is a carcinogen, and puts you at risk for heart disease, and so smokers are guilty like chemical companies...but I'm just about resigned to being around fucking carcinogens, and I eat lots of fat.

No, it's the fucking smell. I hate it. It makes me cough, and I don't like coughing. The smell gets on you. If you're eating, it intereferes with your appetite. It blocks out other smells, smells I like. There's no way for my to be mollified on this issue. I will not cede an inch.


Posted by: Michael | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 2:44 PM
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You know, if it makes you cough, you could, you know, move to another table.

And the smoke of good cigarettes smells a lot better than, say, men's cologne.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 2:45 PM
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No, it's the fucking smell. I hate it.

I'm imagining your hands fluttering here. ANd maybe some foot stomping.


Posted by: Chopper | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 2:47 PM
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Yeah, I like the selfish accusation coming from Mr. "I don't like smoking! It makes me cough and smells bad! Smokers are evil and should be banned because I don't like their malodorous habit!"

Mm-hm. Get over yourself, my friend.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 2:50 PM
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If you didn't suspect that I'm right, you wouldn't be so annoyed.


Posted by: Michael | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 2:50 PM
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Michael actually gave reasons, though. What are your reasons—that you like it? Perhaps the one who needs to be gotten reflexively over is you yourself.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 2:51 PM
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40. Your mom thinks I'm cute when I do that.


Posted by: Michael | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 2:51 PM
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And if you didn't feel socially entitled to get all up in arms about it, you wouldn't be annoyed. Honestly, up through the 80's, every indoor space was full of cigarette smoke, and non-smokers coped without getting all pissy about it.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 2:52 PM
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42: But you've already conceded that smokers annoy you more than vice versa. Mightn't it follow that they are righter than you?


Posted by: Junior Mint | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 2:52 PM
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It's an enjoyable habit. And I'm not sitting around squawking over what other people do or don't do. I'm just sitting there quietly smoking and minding my own business.

Speaking of which, I'm going to go have a cigarette now. I shall blow the smoke in Michael's general direction. Enjoy!


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 2:54 PM
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Not true! I was but a child, but I remember adults who were plenty pissy about it. Anyway LB, the source of a lot of my annoyance is that I *don't* feel socially entitled to be annoyed. As I said above, I have no recourse but to take it - or move, if there's another table at a suitable distance, which is often not the case.


Posted by: Michael | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 2:55 PM
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That's just because getting pissy wasn't on the horizon of possibility, and so they came to interpret themselves as part of a smoking world, etc etc etc. There are lots of things that one, not feeling socially entitled to get pissy thereover, does not thereover get pissy—that doesn't mean that such things aren't worth getting pissy over. It could just mean that society isn't as it should be.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 2:56 PM
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I'd expect you, LB, being a woman and all, to be more circumspect about deploying that kind of argument.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 2:57 PM
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Getting pissy is just rude, I am sorry. There is no excuse for rudeness.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 2:57 PM
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48 to 45.

I'm just sitting there quietly smoking and minding my own business. ...And causing tiny, innocent children (sweet angels!) to get horrible, painful, ugly lung cancer 20 years down the line! And ruining the lunch of 5 wonderful people (who spent their mornings trying to get food to starving children in Africa!) who are just *too nice* to say anything!


Posted by: Michael | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 2:58 PM
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47: if your minding your own business means ignoring the pain and discomfort your business is causing, then isn't that a species of selfishness? (Or, perhaps, an artificial delimitation of the spacial extent of your business?)


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 2:58 PM
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49: Ben, don't get all more-feminist-than-thou. Nothing is more obnoxious.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 2:59 PM
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51: how about if, instead, you got angry or indignant, or something? I mean, heaven forfend that someone suffering rank injustice should be rude.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 2:59 PM
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Oh, break me a fucking give. Other people occasionally annoy us. This is part of being in public. Grow up and stop whining, or else stay home.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 3:00 PM
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Getting pissy is just rude, I am sorry. There is no excuse for rudeness.

You probably just need a smoke.


Posted by: Michael | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 3:00 PM
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Tell me about it.


Posted by: Chopper | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 3:01 PM
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54: I was actually thinking of religious oppression.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 3:01 PM
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Putting mouse poop in bitchphd's Cheerios is an enjoyable habit. And I'm not sitting around squawking over what other people do or don't do. I'm just sitting there quietly putting mouse poop in bitchphd's Cheerios.


Posted by: standpipe b | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 3:02 PM
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I do need a smoke! And now, because I've had to argue with you lot, I can't have one or I'll be late picking up PK.

Assholes.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 3:03 PM
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I don't eat cheerios, and mouse poop is indeed a regular part of my life. Mice poop. Big deal. You clean it up and move on.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 3:03 PM
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I mean, jeez. Even if I were inclined to cut down on smoking, you lot would make me continue it just on general principles.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 3:04 PM
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Just think of it like this, Michael: a week or so from now, when it's not nice outside but raining, that smoker will still be outside while you're smokefree and toasty and warm and inside.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 3:04 PM
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Since other people occasionally annoy us, and this is ineluctable, even though everyone agrees that it's too bad and when we ourselves are the ones annoyed we generally condemn or vilify the annoying party, I'm going to feel free to engage in annoying behavior. You'll just have to grow up and deal with it, because I, I mean, the faceless mass of men (whew), sometimes choose to annoy you.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 3:05 PM
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You annoy me all the time, Ben (among other things, with completely shit analogies like that one), and I love you anyway.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 3:08 PM
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Even if I were inclined to cut down on smoking, you lot would make me continue it just on general principles.

Seriously, I haven't bought a pack in weeks, and I'm going to get one on my way home. And I'm going to find a puppy and blow smoke in its face. I will also listen to Iron Maiden at top volume with the windows rolled down.


Posted by: Chopper | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 3:13 PM
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Our plan to keep Chopper smoking is working...


Posted by: mike d | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 3:19 PM
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What he should be smoking is pork products, though. Something's misfired.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 3:20 PM
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I'll pray for your soul, Chopper. If God turns out to be a dog, though, it probably won't help.


Posted by: Michael | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 3:21 PM
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Why aren't you in the above thread arguing stridently for the nanny state, Michael?


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 3:24 PM
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Because unfogged isn't about politics, it's about cock jokes.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 3:28 PM
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You could take up chewing tobacco, Michael, and spit right next to the shoes of smokers. Or betel, if you don't want the nicotine.


Posted by: mcmc | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 3:32 PM
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71. B/c I hate nanny states, Jack. Remember, my proposed solution is that the state back off and allow me to vent my anger.


Posted by: Michael | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 3:40 PM
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Oh, you're a Hobbesian. Okay, stay safe, then!


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 3:51 PM
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Okay, let's deal with this:

Since other people occasionally annoy us, and this is ineluctable, even though everyone agrees that it's too bad and when we ourselves are the ones annoyed we generally condemn or vilify the annoying party, I'm going to feel free to engage in annoying behavior. You'll just have to grow up and deal with it, because I, I mean, the faceless mass of men (whew), sometimes choose to annoy you.

First of all, I'm not choosing to annoy you. I'm choosing to smoke. Annoying people is merely an unwanted side effect, except for people like you and Michael, where it's a big plus.

Second, smoking at this point is merely an annoyance to most people. It's hardly a form of political or social oppression.

See? That wasn't so hard.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 4:06 PM
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Michael should develop a taste for durian fruit, and eat them every time smokers are eating nearby. They're really good and annoyance of others is just a big plus.


Posted by: Todd | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 4:12 PM
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78

I wonder how long it will take for living in California to browbeat your smokers' defiance down. Figure that will come before or after blotting your pizza to soak up the oil?

(Just to be sure, you understand the difference between smoking and littering, right? You would never drop a butt into the street or anything, right?)


Posted by: Megan | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 4:19 PM
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I smoke in my back yard and dump the butts in the yard waste.

Jesus, when did we get to the point where smokers are answerable to everyone in the world about what they do with their disposable income and health?


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 4:21 PM
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Michael, the obvious answer is to start talking very loudly on your cell phone (buy a fake one if you don't have a real one). Talk about how much smoking annoys you. Or just burst into loud song, perhaps Iron Maiden. Surely BPhD won't be so rude as to actually complain about it. She can just move, right, or buy earplugs?

And B, when you come upon a patio full of non-smoking people, do you choose a table far from them? Or do you just sit down anywhere, start puffing, and expect them to move? Enquiring minds want to know.


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 4:28 PM
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Jesus, when did we get to the point where smokers are answerable to everyone in the world about what they do with their disposable income and health?

I don't care what you spend your money on or do to your health. It's what you're doing to my health and my ability to breathe nice-smelling air that I object to. It's about anti-social behavior in public places, not controlling what you do in your own home.


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 4:31 PM
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First I pull out my cigarettes and set them down. If they give me the stink eye, I pull out the cheap cigars and a lighter. Also, I eat a lot of beans so I can fart at will, and I very seldom shower.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 4:32 PM
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Michael, the obvious answer is to start talking very loudly on your cell phone

Excellent. This is probably the closest etiquette analogy.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 4:34 PM
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What I want to know is, if you talk loudly on your cell phone, do you talk loudly at home, too? Do you annoy your wife and children? Can your neighbors hear your private conversations? You don't also play the music in your car loudly, do you? What about the music at home after ten pm?

Only if you answer all these to my satisfaction will I admit that you have the right to use a cell phone in public. And then only if I don't happen to be anywhere around.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 4:38 PM
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Wait, B, you object to my loud conversations on the cell phone? Why? You could gather up all your stuff and move to a different table, if one's available.


Posted by: Michael | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 4:43 PM
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AMTF.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 4:44 PM
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I never sweat smokers for what they do at home. I don't even give smokers a hard time for smoking in public patios ('cause it rarely comes up and they get hassled enough). But I don't understand smokers who think that because they're already breaking convention, it is OK to litter.

The whole problem is Coasian, but it is clear that the pendulum has swung over to non-smoking as the default, and smoking as the act that should compensate the majority.


Posted by: Megan | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 4:46 PM
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86. seriously. I still don't get it.


Posted by: Michael | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 4:47 PM
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Then talk loud on your cell phone, if that will move her;
If you can sing Iron Maiden, sing for her too,
Till she cry, "Whiner, loud-talking, Iron Maiden–singing whiner,
Fine, I'll move."


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 4:51 PM
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Really, B, the best you can muster is "I'll do it because I want to, dammit!!!!11!!"?


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 4:52 PM
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85: I'm not the one who brought up the cell phone. I was merely pointing out that if the etiquette situations are parallel, as Ogged says, then that means that the hypothetical I-smoker is entitled to pass judgment on cell-phone users and make a lot of unwarranted assumptions about their personal habits and attitudes in all sorts of other venues.

When people talk too loudly on their cell phones, in fact, I do either just ignore it or move. I may feel a mild twinge of annoyance. But neither of those things entitles me to cop an attitude like cell phone users are somehow an imposition on my holy right to move about the planet in total silence.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 4:54 PM
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I just don't get the analogy. I also never claimed a "right" of any sort. I just expressed me hatred of people smoking next to me and mused about possible expressions of my feelings.


Posted by: Michael | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 4:57 PM
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the hypothetical I-smoker is entitled to pass judgment on cell-phone users and make a lot of unwarranted assumptions about their personal habits and attitudes in all sorts of other venues.

But b, you're the one who brought up smoking at home. Michael was only complaining about public smoking. And I don't see where in this thread anyone put forth unwarranted assumptions about your personal habits and attitudes in all sorts of other venues.


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 4:59 PM
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Chill, M/tch. I'm not imposing on your health. Most of the smokers I know go to some lengths to smoke downwind, to ask folks seated nearby if it's okay before they light up, and we're pretty much forbidden by law--rightly--from smoking in enclosed spaces nowadays. I'm sorry that smoking makes the air smell yukky, but then a lot of other things do too. It's part of the downside of living in the city. Or the country. Or the suburbs, in spring, when people fertilize their yards. There's no need to be such a delicate flower about the fact that the presence of other human beings means we sometimes endure unpleasant odors and minor inconveniences. If you have asthma or allergies or emphysema, by all means let me know and I'll apologize. Otherwise, a little live and let live goes a long way.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 4:59 PM
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All the assumptions I have or will put forward about B—such as that she's smelly, has several obnoxious verbal tics, and doesn't know how to use her silverware—are warranted by having met her.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 5:02 PM
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I brought up smoking at home in response to 78. And Michael wasn't complaining about public smoking; he was saying that smokers are selfish assholes, we're equivalent to chemical companies, we give cancer to children, the entire boring litany of social opprobium. I mean, really. It's not that hard to simply sit elsewhere or say "I'm so sorry, would you mind waiting until I finish eating?"


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 5:04 PM
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Most of the smokers I know go to some lengths to smoke downwind, to ask folks seated nearby if it's okay before they light up

That ain't true around here.

but then a lot of other things do too

No, there's really nothing else akin to smoking.


Posted by: Michael | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 5:05 PM
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96. My own attempts at humor-for-comity turned against me!!


Posted by: Michael | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 5:06 PM
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I have obnoxious verbal tics out the ying-yang. I do, however, know how to use silverware. Also, I keep my promises and hold up my end of bargains, Mr. I'll-bake-you-a-pie-one-of-these-days-but-maybe-not-this-time-or-this-time-either-but-really-I-will.

For the record, I'm really not all that up in arms about the anti-smoking animus, nor am I particularly offended by those of you who are on the smokers are evil bastards bandwagon. I'm just saying, can't you find someone new to treat as a pariah? Smoking is so 90s.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 5:07 PM
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Really, B, it's not nice to take my obviously-for-humor, over-the-top rhetoric and pretend it was serious in order to attack my arguments.


Posted by: Michael | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 5:07 PM
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I baked you a pie last week. But you weren't here, so I had to eat part of it myself and give the rest to the philosophy department. Shame about that.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 5:08 PM
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How about a rant about those awful parents with their loud children, and how maybe *you're* a considerate parent, but most of the ones around *here* aren't, and their kids are spoiled brats and ought not be allowed out in public? At least you'd be up to date.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 5:09 PM
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Also, come on, my smokers-are-selfish observation obviously could only make sense in the context of social smoking. I have no idea how you could think it meant smoking in private.


Posted by: Michael | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 5:09 PM
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104

102 to ?


Posted by: Michael | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 5:10 PM
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102 was largely to 97.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 5:14 PM
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I don't understand how.


Posted by: Michael | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 5:14 PM
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Most of the smokers I know go to some lengths to smoke downwind, to ask folks seated nearby if it's okay before they light up.

That ain't true around here.

That's very true around here, so much so that I feel bad for them.

but then a lot of other things do too.

But those things are involuntary (smelling sweaty after exercise) or worth it for the other useful thing they do (gross diesel fumes in exchange for bus transportation). Smoking is a choice, at least before addiction, and utterly without value to non-smokers. So non-smokers aren't willing to put up with any irritation from it.

I don't know why I'm arguing, 'cause other people smoking is way the hell down on my list of daily problems. Probably because you're asserting that it is as reasonable to expect the non-smoker to move as it is to expect the smoker to move. But the vast majority of Californians at least, think the smoker is creating the nuisance and should be the one to yield.

(There will be no hint of this in my attitude when we hang out in LA. I also have manners.)


Posted by: Megan | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 5:15 PM
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Basically I'm just being a shit over the manners thing. The vast majority of smokers I know have long ago conceded that we are more responsible for not annoying non-smokers than non-smokers are for avoiding the smell of smoke. I'm not asserting that it's *as* reasonable to expect non-smokers to move as it is to expect smokers to do so; just that given that we've moved literally outside, it's kind of beyond the pale to bitch that we shouldn't smoke outside any more now either, if someone else happens to be sitting in the only area where smoking is allowed. Especially if you're too much of a puss to simply change tables or ask them to wait until you're done eating.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 5:20 PM
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Thank you for bringing up the cell phone in public thing. I take the train in to NY one day a week now. I go in at mid-morning and return during rush hour. I cannot for the life of me seem to avoid cell phone yakkers. So loud! So fucking boring! This morning, I moved to the back of the train...all by myself...so quiet...so nice...til some asshole came and sat by me and started yakking it up. I felt like Michael: I wanted to fucking kill every fucking person yakking on a fucking cell phone.

I feel a lot fucking better now.


Posted by: annie | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 5:39 PM
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B, quit oppressing me. I reserve the right to my feelings, and I don't think they make me a bitch or a pussy. I have expressed how I feel about certain things in this thread, but I haven't asserted that anyone has a duty to change their actions b/c of my feelings.


Posted by: Michael | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 5:44 PM
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annie, get your gun


Posted by: Michael | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 5:46 PM
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111: Wow, no one's ever said that to me before.

That's okay, though. I can tell that you feel my pain.


Posted by: annie | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 5:50 PM
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I'm not oppressing you. I'm just saying, I smoke, feel free to rant about how evil smokers are, but recognize that those of us who smoke are a little fed up with it and reserve the right to express *our* feelings on the subject too.

You know, you'd probably be a lot more relaxed about this kind of crap if you'd just take up smoking.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 5:52 PM
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I only hate smokers because I'm jealous of them. Okay, I don't really hate them. I am jealous though. Maybe when I hit sixty-five or so I'll take up smoking again, if you can still buy cigarettes then, thus both enjoying a simple pleasure and helping to ensure that I don't outlive my 401(k).


Posted by: mcmc | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 6:18 PM
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Mmmmm, smoking. Yummmmmmmm. Join me.....


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 6:21 PM
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retro me, bitch!


Posted by: mcmc | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 6:22 PM
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I'll smoke a hookah.


Posted by: Michael | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 6:30 PM
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Retro? You don't know the half of it. I just figured out that my muzzyheadedness today is b/c I skipped my stupid meds for two days. God, I need to get into a routine.

Here I am. A housewife in a umc neighborhood, walking my kid to and from school, smoking and popping the 21st century equivalent of valium. Fear me.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 6:37 PM
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I thought I'd mention that I just had a cigarette myself. A clove, to be precise, because I am not entirely free of my gothy teenaged past.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 6:58 PM
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The nanny state has reached the libertarian West: Come January 1, smoking in public places will be illegal in the town where I was born.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 7:25 PM
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My second favorite thing about California (after good produce) is the smoking ban. It means that I can actually go out to bars and not have to immediately go home to change clothes. I'm really apprehensive about what moving out of California would do for my social life as bars and resteraunts with smoking (like all of them in my hometown, say) really suck. I would definitely go out less often.

A smoking ban is going is going to be a significant factor in any choice I have in where to live. That's not meant as a complaint, just a fact.


Posted by: Unfoggetarian: "Pause endlessly, then go in" (9) | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 8:18 PM
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I don't understand 108. Either Michael was somewhere that has a smoking ban, in which case smoking is almost certainly banned at the outside tables just as much as on the inside tables; or else he is somewhere that doesn't have a smoking ban, in which case moving inside would only make the situation worse. Where could he be in which the tables outside were "the only area where smoking is allowed ?"


Posted by: Unfoggetarian: "Pause endlessly, then go in" (9) | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 8:32 PM
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There are lots of places here in NC (which is not where Michael is, AFAIK) where smoking is allowed only outside: coffeeshops, many restaurants, etc.


Posted by: Robust McManlyPants | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 8:47 PM
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Oh nifty, I've never lived somewhere like that. It's always been a full ban, or else unavoidable smoke. In Pennsylvania they don't even have to have a non-smoking section in diners after a certain time.


Posted by: Unfoggetarian: "Pause endlessly, then go in" (9) | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 8:52 PM
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Terribly uncreative. Here it's all done by municipality/county, so that for instance in the town where I went to college you can only have a smoking section if a certain percentage of your revenue is from alcohol sales or if you have separate ventilation systems for smoking and non- and the bathrooms are accessible without passing through the smoking section, whereas in the town where I live now (exactly five minutes away) there are no rules and it's purely on a venue-by-venue basis but the default is that it is non-smoking indoors, smoking if they have outdoors or a bar.

The first year I did NaNoWriMo I learned very quickly what coffeeshops have indoor smoking sections or have power outlets outdoors.


Posted by: Robust McManlyPants | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 8:57 PM
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Michael, you pussy. I'd have blown smoke all over you at the DC meat-up if I knew you felt that strongly about it.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 9:01 PM
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Seriously, I make an effort to be considerate with my smoke and I never sit in a smoking section at a restaurant because it really can ruin a meal. On the other hand, indignant non-smokers are annoying, but not nearly so annoying as indignant ex-smokers. I want to stub out cigarettes on their foreheads.

Also, your reciprocal annoying habit should be masturbating. Trust me, the smokers will move away.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 9:15 PM
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127 on all points.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 9:28 PM
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Also, your reciprocal annoying habit should be masturbating. Trust me, the smokers will move away.

That's awesome. Relatedly, people will move away if you stare too intently at their children. They may even leave the restaurant. But I've come to believe that it's pretty mean to do this, so I can't really recommend it.


Posted by: | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 9:37 PM
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119: Cloves! Wow! People still smoke those? Crazy high-school nostalgia coming back.


Posted by: mrh | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 9:39 PM
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129: Me.


Posted by: SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 9:42 PM
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Well, you know, "people".


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 9:42 PM
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Some of my friends roll their own cigarettes (usually with Drum™ tobacky, I think). I find it smells sweeter and less-offensive.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 9:43 PM
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Or nose-picking. That works really well, too.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 9:47 PM
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Relatedly, people will move away if you stare too intently at their children.

When I initially read this, I thought the first word was "retardedly," which seemed a bit harsh.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 9:47 PM
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134 to 133.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 9:47 PM
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Your friends aren't rolling their own cigarettes to save your nostrils. Cigarette taxes are the only easy taxes to raise these days.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 9:54 PM
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Another tactic, if you're not feeling self-romantic: ask the offending table if you can bum a cigarette, then light it and stub it out after a desultory fake puff or two. Repeat ad infinitum ad fisticuffs.


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 9:54 PM
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No one lets people bum cigarettes any more. They're too expensive.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 9:56 PM
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Cigarette taxes are the only easy taxes to raise these days

Not such an issue in good ol' Virginny, but yeah, it's cheaper. And, you know, cooler.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 9:56 PM
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139: Is that why people are always asking if they can buy cigarettes from me?


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 10:00 PM
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Oh, and to revise and extend 140: as a resident of the Commonwealth of Virginia, I've certainly smoked my requisite quota. But a lot of the cigarette-rolling types are a bit high-and-mighty about it. That's annoying.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 10:04 PM
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No one lets people bum cigarettes any more.

You must live in unfriendly places.

Though they're probably cheaper here than anywhere else in the US.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 10:05 PM
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141: Do you work at a convenience store?


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 10:10 PM
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No, that's the weird thing. People just stop me on the street and ask.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 10:15 PM
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they're probably cheaper here than anywhere else in the US.

Actually looks like South Carolina has the top spot; $0.07/pack, besting NC by nearly a quarter. On the opposite end is Rhode Island, tacking on a cool $2.46 per pack.


Posted by: Matt F | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 10:17 PM
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$2.46 per pack

Wow.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 10:26 PM
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Well, to be fair I smoke MCDs, which aren't your usual Camel Lights. But in my former home in the land of snow and ice, I paid $10/pack for American Spirits, and no, you don't just hand out cigaretes when they cost that much. At least not often.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 10:29 PM
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148: Really?

And they're that good?


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 10:37 PM
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Yes.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 10:43 PM
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Q.E.D. I'll keep an eye out for 'em. Thanks.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 10:46 PM
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That's awesome. Relatedly, people will move away if you stare too intently at their children. They may even leave the restaurant. But I've come to believe that it's pretty mean to do this, so I can't really recommend it.

Dude, that's dangerous.


Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 10:49 PM
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which aren't your usual Camel Lights

I smoke your usual Camel Lights. About $3 a pack here, which still seems really expensive to me.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 10:56 PM
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You gotta hold out for the BOGO, apo. Then stock up.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 10:57 PM
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145: You should carry lots with you all the time then. Excellent profit margins on loosies.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 10:59 PM
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Yeah, gotta love the BOGOs.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 11:01 PM
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At your average bodega in NYC, Camel Lights cost about $6-$7.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 11:03 PM
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Check that, at the lowest-minimum legal price, I think it's something like $6.50.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 11:05 PM
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MCDs are good enough that other smokers bum from you shamelessly, even with nearly full packs of their own inferior brand sitting right there on the bar. Worth it even so.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 11:08 PM
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You know what else is real cheap down here? You can get these things used for almost nothing.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 11:11 PM
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So, the market is working.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 11:16 PM
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155: I dunno, sounds like a lot of money to spend on a habit I don't have. And I don't get asked that often; it'd probably take me months to go through a pack.

Have other people really never had this experience? Only happens in cities.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 11:17 PM
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162: You could hang out around methadone clinics and AA meetings. If you don't already, that is.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 11:21 PM
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Bums will ask anyone for a smoke, Teo; it's not just you.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 11:22 PM
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162: Happens to me all the time. Mostly homeless people or drunk folks in bars/clubs. On the occasions when I have a pack, I just give them a few. I don't mind, since I smoke so infrequently that they get really stale if I try to use them up on my own. It's ordinarily something like a month or month and a half-long process to get through one pack for me.


Posted by: Matt F | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 11:29 PM
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149: Yes, they really are that good. Good enough that I've had non-smokers say "wow, that smells good." It makes you realize why tobacco is a habit people started picking up.

159: It's true, and I'm willing to share with other smokers. Random strangers trying to annoy me at coffeeshops was the original hypothesis. And it's true that I used to say "hell no" back when I lived someplace where you had to smuggle them across the border.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 11:31 PM
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I used to buy and carry around cigarettes to give to homeless guys. sometimes I'd just give them a whole pack of marlboro's. I got this idea from my brother, and it was very popular.


Posted by: alameida | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 11:31 PM
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Bums will ask anyone for a smoke, Teo; it's not just you.

But do they offer to pay for them? That's the strange part.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 11:36 PM
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Yes.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 11:39 PM
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Huh.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 10-12-06 11:43 PM
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Apo, you punk, we were drinking in a dingy bar. I expect cigarette smoke in those kinds of places, so it would have been just fine.

Also, I couldn't have used the wanking method. The smoker was a girl just a bit older than me. What if she'd like me? Then I'd have to explain that I don't make out with smokers, and it would have been awkward.


Posted by: Michael | Link to this comment | 10-13-06 10:47 AM
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I don't make out with smokers

I hear it's just like masturbating with an ashtray.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 10-13-06 10:48 AM
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I think that we've all strayed from the important point here and that's that ogged is spending a good amount of time checking out gay social websites. The man is trying desperately to come out to us and we're not listening.


Posted by: annie | Link to this comment | 10-13-06 12:46 PM
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Of course we're listening, and giggling as we listen. If he actually comes out, what will we all do for entertainment?


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 10-13-06 12:48 PM
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I guess the same stuff as before: make fun of his online profiles and partner preferences, try to fix him up with someone, tell him what he's doing wrong, etc.


Posted by: annie | Link to this comment | 10-13-06 12:49 PM
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And keep making jokes about him being secretly straight.


Posted by: M/tch M/lls | Link to this comment | 10-13-06 1:21 PM
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