I believe you've earned sufficient karma points to post Wacholder's ass again.
They give our soldiers steroid, don't they? Just guessing.
Also, isn't that guy's hair kind of long for a combat Marine? Or is he a member of the International Male Batallion?
The dude pictured has to be a Corpsman (i.e. Navy medic). No Marine has hair like that.
It's to show the sacrifices our Marines are making for their country. The guy in the mirror is wishing he had hair like that.
Robert Kaplan totally has this hanging on his wall.
Three times in one week, ogged?
That's what I look like when I take off my shirt. Except for the muscles, the tan, and the waxed chest.
I don't know what kind of Marine he is (Here's Mr. November, with longish hair), but aren't the grooming standards considerably more relaxed for the Special Forces (or Marine equivalent) guys?
I go where the the spirit takes me, stras.
The funniest thing about that calendar is Mr. September watching the other 11 guys. Intently.
And in the picture of Mr. November -- is the word 'amphibious' in the background meant to send a message?
13: This is not the underwater sex blog, LB.
the International Male Batallion
Beautiful.
Maybe the Marines in the pictures are the guys who've gotten discharged for PTSD or other non-visible disabilities/wounds, which is why they can grow their hair out and go to the gym. Hey, maybe they got discharged for being gay!
2 is wrong, by the way.
10. Yes the snake eaters can have longer hair, beards, etc. when on a mission. This guy looks like a surfer. Plus, He is wearing a blue belt, not tan, so I'm pretty sure that's Either Navy or Air Force.
2 is wrong, by the way.
Maybe w/d wasn't using "post" in reference to the blog.
But if you look at the blurb on the store page, it's clear that the calendar is entirely heterosexual, and only a pervert would think otherwise:
Sergeant Rodolfo “Rudy” Reyes, and 9 other members of the elite Reconnaissance Marines are leaving women panting and men wanting to enlist.
Hmm. Actually, I guess there's still a little ambiguity left in there.
Seriously, the guy ogged chose is good looking enough to model, isn't he? Was there really something to Zoolander?
2 is wrong, by the way.
Only insofar as it implies that it's ever wrong to post Wacholder's ass.
19: He's in the shrubs outside your office.... RIGHT NOW!
IM IN YR SHRUBZ--
Oh, never mind.
21: Oh, they're all adorable. The Marines are a big organization, mostly consisting of 20's guys in good physical condition. Finding a dozen pretty ones doesn't strike me as at all unlikely.
Because I'm looking at RSS, I read 23 as if it were a reply to my 23 on the other thread.
2 was meant to be self-evidently absurd. While it might be the case that there are contexts in which it is a better or worse idea to post pictures of Wacholder's ass, conceptualizing that as karma points is dumb, as is thinking that the relevant consideration is whether or not pictures of attractive men are also posted.
So you may wonder why Wacholder's ass just came to mind in connection to this post, but that would be a foolish and idle thing to wonder.
mostly consisting of 20's guys in good physical condition
So how come they aren't wearing more hats, and short ties?
Does anybody but me think that they're not adorable, nor in some cases even very attractive?
Oh, they're all adorable.
Mr. June is substantially better looking than everyone else on that calendar; let's not pretend otherwise. If every guy in America looked like that, I would feel something like a moral obligation to be gay.
Eh, I suppose some are more fetching than others. Amphibious surfer dude is distinctly appealing, though, as is the guy being stalked in the rear-view (heh) mirror.
And LB really has a thing for blondes. June and Amphibious are in the Today show video clip.
It's my understanding that service in Iraq largely consists of boredom and endless days with nothing to do but work out and surf the internet, punctuated by scary trips outside the compound to do supply runs and patrols.
So, there's plenty of time for them to get 'buff'.
The waxed chests are kind of freaking me out, though.
So, there's plenty of time for them to get 'buff'.
Yeah, my cousin Timmy came home with thirty pounds of muscle on him I'd never seen before. He was always incredibly fit, but he went from skinny wiry Asian guy to totally buffed out.
33: Don't be so sure: the guy in the rearview mirror is awfully good-looking, too.
I think I'm always surprised when I see people who are extraordinarily good-looking and who have fairly normal jobs. Maybe it's just the camera doing the work.
I see good-looking people in ordinary jobs all the time. Certainly people who'd look pretty good done up and photographed.
[Maybe I just ogle people more...]
36: It's really startling. Graduate school acquaintance joined up in late 2000. Went from being a tall brooding sort of geeky compsci type to a geeky compsci type made out of solid muscle. It was as if they have him a shoulder transplant during basic training or something.
Some of them have cute faces, but they almost all look way too gymmed out to be hot. The swimmer guy in November, the biker in February, and maybe Mr. March (but what's up with his arms?) are the only ones who seem to be even approaching actual human attractiveness. The others mostly look like plastic dolls.
That's what I look like when I take off my shirt. Except for the muscles, the tan, and the waxed chest.
What you're trying to say, then, is that you only have one nipple?
Oh, these guys aren't that gymmed out. Posing, lighting does lots; they probably look pretty normally buff with their clothes on.
Define "normally buff." Because none of the men I have ever slept with or been attracted to looked like any of those guys.
It was as if they have him a shoulder transplant during basic training or something.
I take it as a sign that many people get very little regular exercise, particularly of their upper bodies, so that the response is dramatic. Pushups and pullups, plus hand-to-hand along elevated ladders, and a lot of lifting and shoving were all the upper body work in my basic training, yet the impact on some guys was marked. All this occurred several times a day for weeks, though.
40: Once again, proof that women suck at objectifying people. November and February must have made the calendar under some sort of affirmative action program.
I call bullshit on 42 -- this seems totally equivalent to the misogynistic chatter that occurred on the Wacholder and similar threads.
39: Even the baseline military PT does a lot for you. I have a female friend who joined the JAG corps out of law school, and she went from early-thirties-not-bad-looking-but-a-little-sedentary/soft to looking like a freaking greyhound, and I mean that in a hott way. And that's doing what's required (well, not the absolute bare minimum, but not a heck of a lot more than the minimum. About the minimum normal amount careerist officers do to look enthusiastic about their jobs.)
Add not all that much recreational working out on top of that minimum, and you end up pretty darn fit.
I'm probably just revealing my ignorance of your big-city ways, but why on earth would a fella wax his chest?
46: Bullshit that these guys aren't unusual? Because I'd certainly agree that they are unusually fit. Bullshit that they aren't unattractively muscular? On this, I'm with Cala rather than with B - while there's a level of muscularity that's just too much, and isn't appealing at all, these guys are mostly on the right side of the line. Bullshit that we shouldn't be talking about these guys as if they were pieces of meat? You're right. We really probably shouldn't.
My Dad claims to have gone from about 140 lbs to about 180 or 190 lbs over the course of his 4 or 5 years in the army. On the other hand, a few friends of mine from school were in the Army and the Navy and none of them looking particularly muscular even during their service.
Oh, and, as per 46, 42 is bullshit. In years of going to gyms, martial arts classes and sporting events, I've met very few guys who are as buffed out as some of those guys. Very very few.
43: I mean that absent lighting, waxing and posing, they probably look like a fit collegiate varsity athlete and not scarily buff at all.
47: Yes. And knowing how easily these changes can occur does somewhat qualify my sympathy for those complaining about how oppressed they are by norms of fitness, or how much time and energy the relatively fit people they know must be spending on it. Once you've experienced that change all around you, in a short time, it changes your sense of the immutability of weight and body type.
47. Did you know that bodybuilders in the Marines have to get special waivers because their height/ weight ratios are in the range that usually means you're a fatty? Plus, most commands like the guys to look more like the biker than the bodybuilder. Buffing up was actively frowned upon when I was on active duty.
I concur with 48.
However, from certain knowledge, some people I know have done it because it shows off their 'pecs' and some have done it because their girlfriends don't like it. I know vanishingly small numbers of people who admit to it though, so that's hardly a representative sample.
49: Since I'm not gay I'm not allowed to have an opinion about whether they're attractive or not. I was taking issue with the claim that they are not unusually buff.
In years of going to gyms, martial arts classes and sporting events, I've met very few guys who are as buffed out as some of those guys.
Really? Because the trainers at the gym I go to aren't all that far off. They aren't as pretty, but there are like four guys who work at my gym who are that big, and maybe not quite that cut but only a week or so of living on tuna away from being that cut.
October dude just looks freakish to me.
(It actually doesn't bother me that much to objectify these guys or Wacholder; what bothers me in both instances is the casual extrapolation to men or women in general, which is what I saw happening when 42 said they were just run-of-the-mill physically fit -- this sounds to my neurotic ear like Well, why are you so fuckin flabby, lazy Clownae?
I clicked through to the video -- one of these guys' last name is 'Saucier'. I love that: "Hmm, let's pose one of them leaning against a jeep. No, it's not quite good enough -- we need someone Saucier!"
leaning against a jeep In a museum?
I don't see much disagreement between LB, Cala, and B.
Cala's point that the way these guys have been photographed and prepared is what we're seeing, and reacting to, and that they're not that different from ordinarily fit young men seems right to me.
Flipping throug late-night TV last night, there was a show on exploading-buffness in America. One acamdemic-type compared toys from the old days and today, showing how much more buff they'd all gotten. "Male barbie dolls". I don't really care about any of this, but thought I'd throw it out as a datapoint.
Christ, I wasn't saying that the guys were normal; I was responding to B's assertion that they're way too gymmed out. I can probably think of five guys, ten if I give myself 30 seconds, who I see at the gym every week who, if photographed professionally, would probably exhibit the same kind of definition as the guys photographed. And in street clothes, they look fairly normal for fit guys, not freakishly unattractive. Mr. October has pretty much the build my fiancé does.
They're unusually well cut, and in good shape, but hardly freaks of steroids. Except maybe Mr. January.
That was discussed starting here, Michael, you ignorant slut.
Lots of people in gyms are on stereoids. I'm not saying I have the greatest sample size, but in real life I have never seen anyone as defined as the guy Ogged posted. Those abs and whatchamacallums to the side are almost unreal.
October dude just looks freakish to me.
Mr. October has pretty much the build my fiancé does.
Throwdown!
I'll admit that the guys I'm thinking of have their shirts on in the gym, so I'm comparing general body shape and arms/shoulders, not the incredibly detailed abs. I don't know what any of the trainers' abs look like, but the guy in the picture is pretty incredible.
The one on the cover on the home page is the hottestt.
I was watching Jarhead the other night, and thinking along very similar lines to most of the above (i.e. Marines are very fit and strong, and oh yes, I'd do Jake Gyllenhaal).
February and August aren't that muscly though (and who can tell about April, July and September), and although October is pretty huge, I guess they posed him with weights for a reason!
October looks like one of the less unusual of them -- he's awfully big, but not all that bizarrely cut.
64 - Something similar strikes me when I see the henchmen in old Bond films. I think it was Goldfinger where they showed the SPECTRE super-henchman getting the rubdown after a workout, and when he stands up for inspection he's basically just kinda big and sorta strong looking. He had broad shoulders, a flat stomach, and kinda large pecs, but it was nothing like the muscle definition or triangular proportions that you see in more recent strong baddies.
I'm convinced that the modern notion of buffness in guys took shape sometime in the 70s or early 80s, just from my (very limited) pop culture knowledge.
I mean, he's got ridges right below his pecs! I just went and fetched my roommates rather large muscle book, and in the whole book there's only 1 guy who gets near that kind of definition.
Mid-80's, I think, and kind of suddenly. I was talking about it on the other thread, that some early 80's movies have surprisingly unmuscular male bodies on display, and then all of a sudden everyone looked like a body-builder.
Ogged, if you keep calling me an ignorant slut, I'm going to think you're coming on to me.
72 -- you have the Charles Atlas advertisements in comic books of the 50's (I think) and 60's as a counterexample.
72. The TV show credited it to Arnold. (And surely the film Pumping Iron)
Eh, my fiancé's carrying an extra 15 pounds or so so he's a cuddly freak. But a cuddly freak who can do a pushup with me sitting on his back.
The abs in the photographs are almost certainly enhanced for the picture. Adding oil or wax makes you shine and enhances the definition. Consciously flexing and twisting does more. Adding sharp light adds a bit more. Telling them: photoshoot next Saturday, drop a couple percentage points of body fat on this tuna diet.
The insult that made a man out of Mac
I remember that ad. In the back of comic books, oddly.
I love that: "Hmm, let's pose one of them leaning against a jeep. No, it's not quite good enough -- we need someone Saucier!"
Whereas I saw his name and thought, "Does he come from a long line of chefs?"
50's (I think) and 60's
Er, ah, Way earlier, actually.
76 - There has always been the body-builder type. Hell, even Sean Connery himself was quite cut back in the day. But it still looks less overbuilt and/or less gruesomely defined than those highlighted today in male models and movie stars.
'Saucier' makes me wonder what the rest of his comrades are called. Spicier, Sexier and Coy?
I might have mentioned once or twice before that I like my guys on the more slender side.
Mmm. My mom used to know a flight attendant who dated Sean Connery back when he was a truck driver, before he was an actor. He was awfully attractive.
I've usually ended up dating (and married to) beanpoles, but what I'll ogle is fairly hackneyed beefcake. I'm with SCMT on the guy in the post.
I wonder who the target audience for the calender is. I'm guessing women, but are pin-up calenders of men all that common?
I'm with SCMT on the guy in the post.
Watch out for the dreaded crossed swords, Timmy.
I might have mentioned once or twice before that I like my guys on the more slender side.
It's OK to say "to look like petite little girls"; we're Democrats, and we're cool with that.
There's actually a fairly broad range of body types here, much more than there'd be on a calendar featuring women. Yes, February and November are quite skinny; is JM saying they're not skinny enough?
April's the one I don't get. Two men in a boat and no muscles to be seen.
Actually, that goes for September, too. July gets a pass because it's a cool picture. But as a whole the calendar is sort of both about ogling men and not about ogling men but about cool things Marines do.
93 -- do you see any muscles in September?
Oh, the guy with a gun has a nice face. And I bet the thinking was that they wanted at least a few more military and less porny looking pictures.
I agree with Cala about April and September, and I would include July as well.
Oh, the guy with a gun has a nice face
And neither of those is a euphemism.
89: I'd be willing to wager even money that at least half of the sales are to gay men.
Watch out for the dreaded crossed swords, Timmy.
Try to imagine all life as you know it stopping instantaneously and every molecule in your body exploding at the speed of light.
94: That would be the equivalent of the plot.
96: Yeah, it just makes it sort of a confused presentation. Like if halfway through a swimsuit calendar of the 'hot women of [summer Olympics], [Enron scandal], [TV], they put one of them in a business suit and the rest in bikinis.
Try to imagine all life as you know it stopping instantaneously and every molecule in your body exploding at the speed of light.
SB is...the elemental detritus of a threesome gone awry.
The dudes with clothes on are still dreamy, though. Prettier or more handsome than most of the buff guys.
101: Did you look it up, or are you paraphrasing?
Looks to be pretty accurate.
Hey could my memory be accurate of my friends and I going to the theater, buying tickets to Ghostbusters, then sneaking into the next showing of Gremlins without paying? I know they are both 1984, just curious if they were actually both in the theater at the same time.
And why does IMDB think "Ghost Busters" is two separate words? That would be a lame alternate spelling.
February and November are almost skinny enough, IDP.
This seems a wholly appropriate time to share what some friends recently did to their car.
The dudes with clothes on are still dreamy, though. Prettier or more handsome than most of the buff guys.
Are you trying to see just how far you carry the pretense of heterosexuality?
108: Ghostbusters and Gremlins were both released on June 8, 1984.
112: I believe we're looking at foreshadowing for the big coming out announcement, which Ogged is saving for sweeps week.
111 -- are they going to go into business?
114 -- thanks.
Sorry Jesus,
I should have said ""dreamy"."
Heteronormatively "yours,"
Ogged
116: Nah, they were just bored one night.
90- I thought it was a "Heathers" reference.
I love my dead gay son.
1. Heathers is one of the greatest movies of all time.
2. Atrios's use of "Heathers" to describe the Beltway claques that serve up opinion was a great choice of metaphor, and more or less cemented him in my plus column. (I have no idea whether he actually came up with it.) Just perfect.
121. I have also heard the same said of Maureen Dowd and the NY Times opinion page, but I forget where. Both are appropriate.
I think that this confirms that "dream" is a really uncommon adjective. Compare.
Michael, you use Opera? Now that's gay.
<subjunctive>Yes, Ben.</subjunctive>
Arr, my subjunctive tags didn't show up.
What's gay about Opera? Seems pretty gay to make fun of another's choice of browser, though.
I don't even know what the subjunctive there might mean. I would be skinny enough if? Would that I were skinny enough? Let me be skinny enough?
Though I'm impressed that you could figure out what browser I'm using. No clue how you did that.
Your mom told me. It was part of a list of signs she had picked up on.
You're guessing pretty well, w-lfs-n.
132 -- in the Google link you posted the browser name is specified.
Come on JM, give us the skinny!
Not to mention that he could cross-reference your IP address with the stat tracker, which would tell him which browser you were using. And what you had for breakfast.
Clown, for future reference, "i'm impressed at your [technical computer knowledge]" is not a compliment, and if possess such knowledge, you should hide it.
mr. august is GORGEOUS. how has this not been mentioned?
i'm a little disappointed by all the others though. except maybe that guy with the gun. and mr. november. yay for mr. november.
but mr. october, and mr. december in the black diapers, are not okay. mein gott.
"i'm impressed at your [technical computer knowledge]" is not a compliment, and if possess such knowledge, you should hide it.
Right, because this is the blog for holding subject-matter expertise in contempt.
Those are black swim trucks, mmf!, you Hitler Youth groupie.
Mr. December is clearly a follower of Sir Roderick Spode, not Hitler.
a fit collegiate varsity athlete and not scarily buff at all.
See, today's "fit" collegiate varsity athletes are, imho, scarily buff. Ditto 65--five guys, ten if I give myself 30 seconds, who I see at the gym every week who, if photographed professionally, would probably exhibit the same kind of definition as the guys photographed. By definition, guys you see at the gym every week are already heading towards "gymmed out," imho.
I mean, I'm all for be physically fit. But, you know, walking around, riding a bike, playing some kind of sport'll do it. The whole visible muscular definition and very low bodyfat thing freaks my shit out.
I'm really surprised, actually, that JM and I seem to be alone in the no-beefcake camp. I was honestly under the impression that beefcake wasn't all that appealling to women, and that the idea that it was was a bizarre manifestation of homoerotic aesthetics being foisted off on men as "for women"--kind of parallel to the idea that nail polish and the latest makeup tips are something that women care about "for men."
141. but it is a blog for occasional ribbing-for-ribbing's sake. and I'm proud of my setup (132) and finish (138). That was totally planned, suckers.
Nope. I likes me some beefcake. I don't particularly expect it, because it seems to require enough time spent in the gym to make you boring, and there are many other ways to look attractive. But buffed-out is pleasant to look at.
I was honestly under the impression that beefcake wasn't all that appealling to women
In my experience, you're misimpressed. I definitely know women like you, who think it's weird, but also plenty who think it's hot.
Mmf! Mr. August? Are you sure? The pasty guy with the boat and the visible ribcage or whatever the fuck that is on his sternum, and the totally goofy face? And the haircut that makes his ears stick out? I mean, I'll give him credit for not having massively over-developed arms for a change, but other than that, eh.
146, 147: Weird. I always thought beefcake was like the male equivalent of fake tits.
This is why the wise people who gave us this calendar included a range of types (all, admittedly, in the buffed-out category, but a range). Something for everyone.
And the haircut that makes his ears stick out?
This seems like an odd thing to fault a Marine for.
149: You might be right, and still wrong.
151: Well, I'm not one who generally thinks, ooh, Marines, teh hott. And the haircuts are part of the reason. I'm constantly trying to get Mr. B. to grow his hair out a bit (but not to the Led Zeppelinesqe lengths he had for the first few years after he left the military).
I like the crewcut, but only on hyperlean guys (that is, some but not all soldiers). On anyone with any bodyfat at all it makes them look kinda thicknecked in an ugly way.
150: A narrow range. They're all pretty light-skinned, there are no Asian guys, and only January, December, and March appear to be anything other than white. Which is kinda weird, actually, b/c the Marines have a lot of Samoans, Filipinos, Latinos, and Blacks, and the armed forces generally are way more integrated than most professions.
It is probably true, though, that Marines are gonna be more buffed out and cut, and quite possibly thicker in that beefcakey way, than your average guy.
Also, January and December are the same guy.
155: True fact, and I feel kind of bad about not having picked up on it. I don't know many (any) Marines.
This calendar is a bunch of seasonal variations of Riley, Buffy's worst boyfriend. Except July, who's stunning. I'd hit that.
That's it! I thought all women hated beefcake because everyone I know hated Riley!
159: July? The guy in the bicycle helmet? You're a weird dude, Smasher.
It's because July looks like Pacey, Tim. Your main man Dawson didn't make the cut.
Data point: I too am not particularly into beefcake, though I do have a weakness for basketball-player-style impressive guns. Skinny with hair falling in eyes: good. Stocky and cuddly: also good. I also have a general preference for medium-short over tall.
everyone I know hated Riley
Riley was okay when he played basketball for Wake Forest.
I like beefcake like Mr. January/December, but not beefcake like Mr. June, who has an eensy beensy waist and is waxed and oiled as all get out -- all of which are big red flags for STRAIGHT GIRLS NOT WELCOME HERE. I prefer the illusion that I might get to hit that as part of my objectifying.
Noooooooo! Mr. June is straight, he has to be. He's a Marine! (I have my doubts about the guy eyeing him in the mirror, mind you.)
Isn't the guy in the mirror Mr. March?
straight, he has to be. He's a Marine!
NPR had a blurb about officers ignoring the fact that some soldiers had been outed, in order to help retainment numbers. Just sayin'...
Mr. October's neck is wider than his head. Brrrrr. March is kinda cute though.
Mr. March--who is indeed the man in the mirror--has totally undetached earlobes that look too strange for him to qualify unproblematically as "cute."
It won't be W, but the next President will announce that being gay will no longer be grounds for discharge. Fraternization will be prosecuted more vigorously, however.
155: Beat me to it. These are all very middle America beefcake. Nothing wrong with that except handsome soldiers come in all skin tones, and we should be able to see them, too.
. The whole visible muscular definition and very low bodyfat thing freaks my shit out.
Thing is, I'm pretty sure if the photos are done at all like they would be in bodybuilding competitions or muscle magazine photo shoots, that they're getting to such low levels of body fat just for the time period of the shoot.
That's it! I thought all women hated beefcake because everyone I know hated Riley!
I hate Riley for non-beefcake reasons. Like the fact that he's very dull and uninteresting beefcake. But, y'know, Spike and visible muscle definition? Fine. Not beefcake because he's too wiry, but fine.
re: 57
It's the body fat levels rather than the muscle bulk that's unusual. I've known plenty of guys who are as muscular, hell, I've been there myself at times and with a tan and a month of strict dieting, maybe not that far off.
But very very few guys, even fit guys, have as little body fat. Sure, some people I know could get down to close to that with a not enormous amount of effort, and a few people I've known in martial arts and boxing have had those body fat levels, but body fat levels like that are still way off at one end of the bell curve.
If you see a professional soccer player or a boxer, to pick two examples, most (but but not all) of them will have much less muscle definition than that.
Spike and visible muscle definition? Fine. Not beefcake because he's too wiry, but fine.
Exactly. If you have to go all cut and starve yourself, at least be wiry so that it looks like it might actually be something related to your actual physique.
The health implications of the more extreme end of 'gym culture' and the search for a ripped and cut body are non-negligible.
Some people are naturally wiry, as BPhD just said, but many are not. The big muscles and super-low body-fat level look isn't related to any kind of real-world health benefits or athletic capability and, for most people, requires pretty severe measures to get there.
That said, it can look pretty good on some people, and I feel the tug of that just as much as lots of other guys.
175: Spike's abs are pretty much the only reason to watch Season 6 apart from the musical episode.
Those bodyfat levels aren't healthy, but I don't think they're maintained for all that long among serious bodybuilders. At least I hope not; but it's possible that these guys are active enough that their body fat levels are pretty low naturally (it's only about a third of pictures that seem to be worrisome, anyway.)
I'm sure these guys are pretty healthy; their jobs seem like the sort where they would pretty much have to be healthy to perform them. Some people manage low body fat numbers: Jordan was 4%, Owens is apparently 5%. And, at a minimum, Owens is much more cut than any of these guys.
handsome soldiers come in all ... tones
ATM.
(Handsome Marines!)
That said, it can look pretty good on some people, and I feel the tug of that just as much as lots of other guys.
Ick, don't bother.
177: Not at all. I love Season 6.
178: I kinda doubt that that kind of extreme bodybuilding is healthy. I suspect that a lot of bulked-up guys have v. high cholesterol and low cardiovascular fitness; possibly high blood pressure, too. It's not going to be easy to cart around all that weight and maintain body fat *that* low. Doubtless professional athletes and active Marines are pretty fit, but there's a lot more to health than muscle, just as there's a lot more to women's health than weight.
Doubtless professional athletes and active Marines are pretty fit, but there's a lot more to health than muscle, just as there's a lot more to women's health than weight.
I meant to suggest that these guys may be natural freaks within the Marine Corps., as Jordan and Owens are among professional athletes. There is effectively nothing I could do to look like Owens--it's just not on the table. Any serious attempt on my part to look anything like him would be really, really unhealthy for me. But it's not for him. And it remains self-evidently true that Owens is what God intended man to look like.
Nah, Marines are generally pretty damn muscular.
I have a funny Marine story, actually. Mr. B. was at an officer's club once sort of flirting with a very cute, very hard-bodied woman marine. She was apparently a small woman, but totally buffed out. Anyway, she was giving Mr. B. shit about AF guys being fat, which is a standard military in-joke (because their O Clubs tend to have good food, I think, was the catalyst), and he said "but of course, we need to have the body fat in order to survive after we get shot down until you guys come along and rescue our asses."
Apparently this was the right response, and she was totally charmed.
177: Why do you like it? It's alright, mind, but the problem with season six is that there's really no arc to the plot. There's no big monster. (Except the monster that lies... within.) It's all teenage angst, with a bonus drug addiction sideline.
There's some great moments, but the Trio are more interesting than the main characters. That's usually not good for a show, and I don't think Buffy's an exception.
There remains, also, the mystery of why Buffy wears high-necked sweaters and wool coats in southern California. I suspect it's camoflage. Otherwise, there's no way they'd find a stunt double as petite and non-muscled Sarah Michelle Gellar.
I suspect that a lot of bulked-up guys have v. high cholesterol and low cardiovascular fitness; possibly high blood pressure, too.
A lot will depend on their fitness routine, as being muscular and having good cardio vascular fitness aren't mutually exclusive. Lifting weights can be a very good cardio workout if done properly. And it's hard to get down to low-levels of body fat without cardio. Some bodybuilders aren't healthy, probably, but I'm not sure that it's being muscular that's the problem over bad training methods. Marathoners, dancers, gymnasts can all be in bad shape overall, too.
I kinda doubt that that kind of extreme bodybuilding is healthy. I suspect that a lot of bulked-up guys have v. high cholesterol and low cardiovascular fitness; possibly high blood pressure, too. It's not going to be easy to cart around all that weight and maintain body fat *that* low. Doubtless professional athletes and active Marines are pretty fit, but there's a lot more to health than muscle, just as there's a lot more to women's health than weight.
Well, the guys who roid out get all kinds of problems, but that's unrelated to carrying around muscle.
The guys who put on that kind of mass and low body fat drug free tend to be pretty healthy.
I'd like to hear your funny Marine story, B.
186: At least your timing's coming back.
The question is, is Tim making a joke that isn't funny, or did he not get ogged's joke that isn't funny?
183: I liked Season six (and seven, to some extent) because I feel like a lot of the problems the writers ran into were partly the function of pushing the boundaries of the genre. What happens when the "bad guys" and "good guys" start to have gray areas? And I really liked the attempt to deal with a fairly fundamental feminist issue, the question of solidarity v. independence: is it best for Buffy to strike out on her own, or to act in opposition to her friends, or is it best for her to go along with the group? How do you manage to be independent without being a bitch? What do you do in your 20s when you start playing around with simply fucking around, as opposed to dating or going steady or whatever (which is the h.s. model), and how do you manage the various emotional ups and downs of that sort of thing? I think a lot of the things the fans hated were the result of the writers trying to really deal with some new things in interesting ways, which inevitably causes some formal problems but is the only way to really break new ground.
IMHO.
148 - probably what makes me happy looking at mr. august is the fact that you can see that beautiful definition of muscle where chest and thigh interface - i wish i knew what that was called. that is one of the most beautiful things about male bodies -- that curving line of muscle around the groin or low waist.
plus he has that cool hair line.
pasty?!? he's just a pale person. you should never meet me in person! (pale northern peopls)
191: Thanks, mmf! Ogged and I were disagreeing about whether my response to you was too mean and would make you cry. I'm glad to be shown to be in the right.
Ogged, you shouldn't underestimate mmf!
Although, agreed, the top of the male hip is quite lovely.
Why has no one mentioned Mr. May?! He's the best looking one of the whole bunch (although 'Smasher is right about the July dude; he should take off that helmet, but you know, rapelling safety, or whatever the hell he's doing).
I think dude legs have not been objectified enough. Seriously, dudes have nice legs. More of them than one might first imagine.
Mr. May = teh ick. God, y'all are crazy.
At least he looks like a normal human being. That's why I like him. Also, I think that men should like, not shave their chest hair, which it seems the rest of them have done.
Agreed on the male hip.
I get that the writers were trying to push things, but I just didn't care for a lot of the execution. The Spike thing bothered me. It's degrading because she's not in love with him and he doesn't have a soul? Oh, get over it.
Well, but the "it's degrading" thing isn't an unusual reaction for young women to have when they start fucking around. Especially, I suppose, if they're into S&M, maybe. And I think maybe it had more to do with her being massively depressed, post-resurrection, and knowing that on some level she was fucking Spike as a kind of emotional avoidance technique, which really is kind of a crappy way to deal with that sort of thing.
Ogged and I were disagreeing about whether my response to you was too mean and would make you cry.
This is partly right; I merely pointed out to B that her 148 was the kind of comment that makes people want to beat her up. However, I decry for the record the violation of the sanctity of the off-blog communication.
Now who's the indiscretion error queen, huh, B?
Mr. February is cute. Mr. May is a little weird looking, but gets points for the chest hair. And Mr. January seems like he has extra muscles. He looks like a comic book superhero. He can't be real.
Also, I generously chalk it all up to B being off her meds.
I think a lot of the things the fans hated were the result of the writers trying to really deal with some new things in interesting ways, which inevitably causes some formal problems but is the only way to really break new ground.
That might be true, but I think a lot of fans hated it because the shows were often trite, and more often sucked. At the end, I was just barely hanging on. I'm not even sure I caught the last few episodes 'till DVD and/or syndication.
Hey, all bets are off when it comes to proving that I'm right. Plus I gave O. privileges to share my email when we were in the middle of hating each other (he didn't, by the way). Surely that deserves some leeway.
However, okeydoke, point taken. I won't tell anyone about the cock pictures you've been sending me.
Is it weird that reading this thread makes me want to have sex more than looking at the pictures does? I think yes.
205: Nah, that was yesterday. I'm back on 'em again, I'm feeling quite chipper. Plus, it's totally unfair to patronize me because I'm crazy.
I think a lot of fans hated it because the shows were often trite, and more often sucked.
That show just sucked period. It was the kind of tv that made me want to pick up a book.
Once again, I and White Power Militiaman Swift are in complete agreement.
Seriously, the show was very well done, but not at all to my taste.
Gswift, why don't you wear a wedding band?
I thought the ex liked Buffy. Are you allowed to dislike it?
The ex did like Buffy. The ex is also not a castrating feminazi.
Gswift, why don't you wear a wedding band?
I don't even own one. I don't like jewelry, watches, etc. Hate having that kind of thing on my hands.
I thought the ex liked Buffy. Are you allowed to dislike it?
Wouldn't the fact that she's an ex make that question moot?
Do very many guys actually like wearing rings? My dad doesn't have one either, for the same reasons I do. Seems like quite a few guys I know largely wear their wedding ring to avoid pissing off their wives.
I think it's hard-wired into the male brain not to wear rings because it interferes with their ability to accurately throw a spear. Hunting, you know.
I've heard that sometimes rings aren't as comfortable on larger fingers. I don't quite understand why this should be the case, but I know a couple guy friends who don't like wearing rings for that reason. Most of them will wear wedding rings though so their wives don't get upset.
married men are more attractive. ergo, once must take off one's wedding ring in order to keep the laydeez at bay, and stay out of difficult circumstances.
I don't like stuff on my neck or wrists either. My wife wasn't too keen on me not wearing a ring at first, but when I offered to get a tatoo of a ring or chain or something on my ring finger she said that would look stupid. It's not really apparent to me though that it would be much different.
When did wedding bands go from being bands to 'let's see how many more diamonds we can get you to buy?'
When did wedding bands go from being bands to 'let's see how many more diamonds we can get you to buy?'
Probably when DeBeers realized that they had a surplus of small, "high quality" diamonds, and started shifting their marketing to get people to focus on quality, rather than size.
That might be more for engagement rings, though. I didn't know people put anything on their wedding rings.
A lot of wedding rings shown seem to be channel-set diamond circlets or designs that hug a solitaire with little side stones. I've looked in jewelry stores around here and finding a plain or simple band is very difficult.
Hard to find a completely plain gold band? That surprises me.
I like rings. (But then my inadequate masculinity has been repeatedly exposed in these environs.) Right now I wear a turquoise band which I bought in Guang Cho; previously I had a silver band. I don't completely get the "don't like stuff on my fingers" thing which I have heard a few times. A friend of mine did not like metal on him and had a wood band made. He is divorced now, though for reasons totally unrelated to his taste in jewelry. I like necklaces and watches too, though I don't really wear the one because it is not socially acceptable, and the other because I lose them.
230: Finding a man's ring in plain gold is easy, but not a woman's ring. At one store I asked and they kept all the plain rings in the back. Maybe it's a marketing strategy.
"A friend of mine did not like metal on him and had a wood band made."
I've got a friend who swears that rings help in that department, but I'd be worried about splinters with a wooden one.
It's nuts, but the simple three stone type designs are getting more popular. 9 years ago (jesus, 9 years) I couldn't find that kind of thing anywhere. Had to have it made. Small and simple. VS1, F color, three princess stones. Center stone is about 1/3 carat, flanked by a smaller princess of same quality on either side. Was about 1700. But small and simple doesn't see too popular.
I like earrings and necklaces, but not so much rings and bracelets.
Not for me to wear, mind, just in general.
Though there was a jeweller in Naxos with some excellent rings, one of which he gave, free, to the most beautiful girl in our little study-abroad group.
Ah, yes. I have no trouble at all believing that they don't display them. I would suspect that almost everywhere would be able to supply them if asked. Annoying, though, and I'm sure there isn't as much choice in kinds of plain as one would like.
236: Weird. The cuppycake had a hard time finding a solitaire that he liked. Lots of three-stone rings out there now.
236: You sure do seem to know a lot about jewelry for a man who doesn't like jewelry.
Last summer, I auditioned to be a Kaplan teacher, and you have to do that "5 minute presentation where you teach some non-academic thing" exercise. One girl talked about diamonds, advising all the guys in the room that "when you propose to a girl, she'll know" and I was, like, no I fucking won't. Diamonds suck.
I, on the other hand, taught them about effective bargaining techniques for use in countries where it is appropriate. I plan on doing the same thing for the 24 people I'm taking to Egypt next spring.
One girl talked about diamonds, advising all the guys in the room that "when you propose to a girl, she'll know"
She really shouldn't be thinking about the quality of the diamond. Argggg.
You know what sucks? A lot of women honestly do. It makes me very mad. Like ogged says, you have a duty to the oppressed group you're a part of not to act in accordance with stereotypes.
I have been known to get into arguments with my girlfriends about letting men who make way less money than they do pay for everything. Seriously, why do people do that? Agh.
Diamonds suck.
I love you, m. leblanc.
What little macho cred unfogged had left died on this thread.
You sure do seem to know a lot about jewelry for a man who doesn't like jewelry.
I don't like wearing jewelry. but I like chemistry, geology, and gems. Gems are interesting. My dad was a curator at the Los Angeles Museum of Natural History for over 20 years. During the summer when I was a kid I'd take classes over at the Science and Industry Museum. I'd ride the bus with him to work, and when I wasn't at those classes I'd wander the Natural History Museum. Went to the gem and mineral hall every day.
My ex's cousin was super high-maintenance and label conscious. Her family was rich and encouraged that. She got herself a very nice boyfriend who couldn't keep up with that; her family always looked down on him. In an effort to get her to break up with him, they would always give her an identical gift right after he had, only more expensive and nicer. He gave her diamond earrings? They gave her bigger diamond earrings? He saved up for a watch for her? They got her the next model up. She always wore the nicer one.
For some reason, he really loved her and finally proposed. She looked him in the eye and asked "Can you afford me?" He said "No" and so did she.
Label concious people need a kick to the baby maker.
Gswift, your Dad had the best job ever.
What little macho cred unfogged had left died on this thread.
Look, gaylord, you're the last person on earth who gets to complain about the end of our macho cred. You know what happened to our macho cred? It fucked you in the ass until it died of exhaustion.
248: Oh my. He is a lucky man she said 'no.'
Your ex's cousin and her family are awful people.
I thought so. They were always perfectly dressed though. They thought I was raised by wolves.
Ogged, you're the one posting male pin-ups and calling men "dreamy." I think this means you have to be the bottom, sugar.
I make it known to any man who seems like he might want, someday, to propose marriage to me that if he really wants to spend several thousand dollars on me, he should buy me a trip to China. That is all.
Seriously, why people with non-copious amounts of money would buy diamonds is beyond me. But I'm getting off my diamond soapbox now.
Also, I'm supposed to be writing a brief about torture.
your Dad had the best job ever.
It was indeed pretty awesome. He's an ichthyologist, and took early early retirement when they started moving towards 1 curator per dept. instead of two.
One of my earliest memories of an outing with my dad is going to a fishing boat to watch him and a couple other guys dissect a great white. A trawler caught a 16 footer in their nets. I was 6 or 7, and spent most of the time peering into the mouth and jumping around on the carcass. It was sweet.
Also, I'm still at work, writing about geomembrane canal liners.
my diamond soapbox
More hypocrisy in today's America.
Seriously, why people with non-copious amounts of money would buy diamonds is beyond me. But I'm getting off my diamond soapbox now.
Have you read the Atlantic Monthly article from, I think, 1991 called "Have You Ever Tried to Sell a Diamond"? I believe it's floating around somewhere on the net for free.
My soapbox has a bigger diamond than leblanc's.
calling men "dreamy."
Only at Unfogged would my failure to put a word in quotes make me the bottom. I blame w-lfs-n, who's so gay, they buried him face down when he died.
Right before I left for the job in NYC, almost all of the couples I knew in Virginia got married. It was insane -- all of the girls got three stone engagement rings and then (because a simple band paled in comparison to that) five stone wedding bands. So you've got these girls with EIGHT DIAMONDS on their hand and they weren't even 25. Just plain wrong. And these weren't small diamonds, either! And it wasn't the girls demanding it -- it was more the guys trying to one-up each other. Bah!
Only so I could fuck a faultline, ogged.
Look, gaylord
I don't call people "gaylord" often enough. I have to work on that.
Stones in a wedding band are just tacky. The women should have broken off the engagements when they saw what they were expected to wear.
261: I didn't think so, but after looking it up I do remember reading it at some point, which is weird because it was written in 1982, the year I was born.
I also like this for its ranty quality. Sometimes you need a good diamond rant.
I knew it would be something when you finally got laid.
Relatedly, here it is a friday night and I'm inside writing about Frege.
Take heart, 265 made me laugh for a minute.
You know, Ben, it's just about Ogged's bedtime. You could still get lucky tonight.
Is Becks more like a sniper or a vulture? I can't decide.
Coincidentally, Ben, I made a not very funny "morning star," "evening star" joke off-blog just this afternoon.
Crap, I made a bunch of poor decisions in Gran Turismo, and I'm totally screwed.
275 - I'm going to go with "matchmaker". Ben's being awfully quiet. He must be on his way over.
Have fun, boys! 'Night!
Actually I'm ripping Gottlob a new one. Sentences have truth values as there references? I don't think so, bitch.
I have spelling as something I can do? I don't think so, bitch.
as there references
Seriously?
280: I hate you w-lfs-n. You couldn't let me have my one moment of fun?
Yeah, that part of Frege's view is pretty weird. In more important news, I FUCKING WON with a 1970 Chevelle.
"For some reason, he really loved her and finally proposed. She looked him in the eye and asked "Can you afford me?" He said "No" and so did she."
Well thats completely the wrong way to answer. you've already lost the battle if she's still thinking of it in those terms.
It's mean of me, but I have a theory that women who care a lot about their rings, or guys who care a lot about the rings they buy their women, are pretty much doomed to divorce.
He said "No" and so did she." sounds lifted right out of a Modern Love column.
And I totally agree with B's 285.
Hey Doc, I'd like a ruling on this.
I'd like to agree with 285, because it fits my bias, but I'm afraid it's probably no more valid than my other biases.
Her question and his answer saved them both a lot of trouble. Good of her to understand her priorities and good of him to understand his reality.
193 et al: make me cry? no, only the black men-diapers on mr. december run the risk of making me cry. men, just say no. you can do it.
ah, but my favorite pin-up is the celibate italian roman catholic priest calendar, which you should all google forthwith and enjoy, even though i am slightly frightened of the one molesting the kitten in his hands. monsignor july is pretty sweet. calendario romano.
I wonder how many of Labs' students are staying up tonight reading in the library as he goofs off with a video game.
287: Are you suggesting I should run for Congress?
Oh yeah. I'd eat and drink of his body, uh huh.
"Her question and his answer saved them both a lot of trouble. Good of her to understand her priorities and good of him to understand his reality."
well, she seemed to be enjoying the time they had together. it sounds like she switched back to her family's priorities.
292: Jesus Effing Christ, that guy is hot.
The Calendario dei Gondolieri is pretty cool too.
Oh boy, I am right there on the priest ogling. Father July: particularly adorable. Thanks, mmf!
Oh, that may be an out of date July. Whatever. Hot priests!
Father What-A-Waste. Really, the gay priest thing should have surprised no one, given how many are hot.
I wonder how many of Labs' students are staying up tonight reading in the library as he goofs off with a video game.
They probably started drinking Thursday night.
256: Because they're shiny and sparkly and there's a lot of social pressure for a man to do so. Most successful marketing campaign in history, and I think it targetted the men more than the women. Besides, you don't have to spend several thousand dollars, although that does seem to be the trend among most of the non-academic people I know.
292: Jeebus, w-lfs-n. His nose is fucked up, and he has the brows (or whatever the bone structure underneath the eyebrow is called) of an ape. What is wrong with you?
294. Too bad Ben probably has a better chance than you do, huh?
Damnit. 299 stole the thunder from my PRIESTS ARE GAY *snicker!* comment, which was already toeing the line of unfunny, anyway.
291 -- Do you think you're cute enough? To win the self-styled libertarians, that is?
The good news is that if you're running for office in California, you don't have to go to the effort of formulating positions or anything -- except on taxes -- since looks and taxes seem to be about all they've got out there.
I'm cute enough to win over anyone I set my mind to.
I object to diamonds on both moral and aesthetic grounds. This is fortunate, as my diamond-hungry sister can have all my mother's rocks and I will get all of her Middle Eastern silver and Scandanavian enamel jewelry, which I find infinitely more interesting.
OTOH, tattoos are a wonderful thing, as they don't exploit native workers, don't fund terrorism, don't cost as much as gemstones and don't get caught on things. But, for me, the really romantic gift is power tools. Just whisper "Makita 12" Dual Slide Compound Miter Saw with Laser" into my ear...
Labs: What little macho cred unfogged had left died on this thread.
Unfogged had macho cred? When?
max
['Was it B that was responsible?']
There is effectively nothing I could do to look like Owens
You could hit the tanning beds, Tim.
Only so I could fuck a faultline
I thought it was so we'd have a place to park our bikes when we came to visit.
