So Ben, what were you really shopping for?
The tv commerical is entertaining, as well.
The commercial does not appear to be marketing the iGallop as a piece of exercise equipment.
Does it poll the rider for her opinions as well?
Well, duh.
In fact, though, horseback riding is great exercise. I suppose it's kind of the equivalent of an indoor bike trainer, and a hell of a lot cheaper than a horse.
Not to mention lightyears less creepy than a RealSex doll.
It looks a bit like a stability ball, which are great for your abs.
4: So elaborate, expensive masturbation equipment is ok if it for you guys, but its not ok for us? Is it just because the equipment isn't anthropomorphic? Is it just because you can't picture anyone writing homemade erotic comics about their Sybian?
I think this is all patently unfair.
6: Wait, there's expensive masturbation equipment for guys? To my knowledge, there's truckloads of masturbation equipment, much of it expensive, for the ladies, but not really any such for guys.
I can't imagine anyone naming it Yu-chan and insisting she had a boyfriend.
oh, you're talking about realdolls. I don't readily equate those with masturbation equipment. They don't, for instance, fit in your bedside drawer. There's a male real doll as well, so I think we have to count them as a wash, anyway.
so I think we have to count them as a wash
First of all, always wash your real doll. Second of all, I'm not sure you can count it as a wash without taking account of from which gender most demand arises.
The same company that makes the Sybian makes something for men, too, which is pretty spendy ($815).
I was going to get it for ogged until I saw the price tag.
I don't need masturbation equipment, I get off on Jesus.
w/d, I was thinking availability was the matter at issue.
12: What you do unto the least of these, eh John?
Let's talk about a real issue here. Am I a bad person if I go find a dermatologist or something to treat the fucking age spots that are my payment for years of being a sunny Cali girl? Is it possible to find someone who doesn't also push Botox? Am I being pathetically vain and anti-feminist? Is this the beginning of an inevitable decline into pathetic SoCali cosmetic surgery addiction which will lead to me looking mummified?
You should cover up your age spots with lots of tatoos.
15 would only really make sense as snark if 14 had ended with "which will lead eventually to me looking mummified" -- Did w-lfs-n interpolate "eventually" or what? And why didn't he go with the much simpler and bitchier "'me' s/b 'my'"?
Sadly, they're in places like the center of my forehead and the tip of my nose. I'm not sure a tattoo is really going to help matters.
7: There is quasi-expensive male masturbation equipment. I believe the search term you are looking for is "Fleshlight".
14: No. Unlikely. No. Probably not.
Am I a bad person if I go find a dermatologist or something to treat the fucking age spots that are my payment for years of being a sunny Cali girl?
No.
Am I being pathetically vain and anti-feminist?
1. Maybe. So what?
2. No, not unless you think you are obligated to do so because as a woman your value as a person is determined by your beauty.
This advice is brought to you by Idealist's Academy of Feminism.
20: can't you get one of those fancy forehead tattoos that will make everyone think you were in MS-13 back when you were young and impressionable, and as such defer to you lest they get shot, or something?
I'm going to assume that 15 was a compliment, implying that I don't need to start looking for dermatologists any time soon. Not that I agree, but let's be charitable.
I say go for it, and just roll your eyes if they talk Botox at you. I think some of the possible treatments might even actually help stave off skin cancer, which would be a nice non-vanity bonus, no?
Dude, seriously, if there's a non-crazy thing that can be done to get rid of them, why not? Seems reasonable. And it shouldn't matter if the person pushes botox or not, just say no.
NO.
22.2: Complicated. Consciously? No. Am I nonetheless kinda vain? Yes. Does that probably have something to do with internalized ideas about looks being Very Important? No fucking doubt.
Maybe I can just get bangs. But, ick.
I think a little spider tatoo on the end of your nose might look cute.
See, I love the girls. Y'all are so nice. Maybe the "stave off skin cancer" thing can be my all-purpose rationale: I *did* read somewhere that hyperpigmentation can mask early signs, hmm.
And hey, if they can get rid of the acne scarring while I'm in there, I'm not gonna *argue*. Though oddly enough, I came to terms with that fifteen or so years ago and it hasn't bothered me.
You people are such candy-asses. B, you're selling out the sisterhood. All future pain suffered by women because of their gender will be on your head. And knowing that won't alter what you do at all.
I bet you could get some implants while you're having your face done.
31: I'm a victim here, Tim. A victim of teh patriarchy.
what would the fonz do?
hey'd go "HEEEYYYYYY! Get the D cups!"
I bet you could get some implants while you're having your face done.
Looks as if she's one step ahead of you there, Michael.
"Selling Out The Sisterhood" could be a porn title. Someone write Eon McKai.
34: I understand, B, and I sympathize. You see, I too was formed by teh patriarchy, and steeped in its neuroses. My prior (and possibly future) participation in any of ogged's leer-a-thons should be understood in that light.
(How stupid do I seem when I admit that I'm pretty sure I used to use "leary" rather than "leery" until the advent of the FF spellchecker?)
27 gets it exactly right. Unless in feminist utopia we are going to wear gray shapeless sacks. In which case, you should start saving up for your very own sack.
Out of curiosity, what do they do for sunspots? (I am thinking bleach and thinking I've got to be wrong.)
Is the picture in 36 of a real human being?
B, I was in Sephora this afternoon, and there are ALL KINDS of lightening products on the shelf these nows, now that the fucking baby boomers are aging and want to deny that fact. If you are interested in this route (which might be pricy, but probably not as much as a dermatologist appointment), you should talk to one of the staff. They don't work on commission at Sephora and seem a) to be human test subjects for all the stuff, and b) to like to pass out samples like candy.
38: I did not realize the Bitch funbags had already been Biggie-sized.
My sister and her daughter were just now talking about a drive through hysterectomy service. Implants and botox could be added.
42 - Skin lighteners are supposed to be really bad for you, though. Lots of really bad side effects.
41: Apparently you can do either lasers (I'm thinking not) or those trendy acid peels, if you want to go the doctor route. Or there's otc lightening stuff, which I've been using but it ain't gonna keep up.
The other issue is, is this going to keep me from achieving a formidably handsome old age, a la Sontag? I'm okay with the age spots; I just wish they'd wait until I'm at least 50.
Yeah, I'd vote for a trip to the dermatologist rather than beauty-store skin lighteners. I think (?) the safest and most effective treatments for hyperpigmentation are supposed to be laser treatments or retinoids, either of which you'd need a dermatologist to get.
You know, this D-cup conversation makes me remember a thread here where we were talking about male perception of assigning numbers to how women look. I know personally that men I know are shocked to find out how much I weigh. There's no perception of numbers, like how Tia was saying that any dude would say she weighed 125 or something.
Same thing with boob sizes. At some point there arose this idea that D or DD cup size breasts are fucking gigantic, which is really not the case. It's all about the band size and the frame of the person they're on. I had a friend in college who wore I think 34DDD and her boobs didn't seem huge, just well-formed and hott.
Yeah, the skin lighteners are bad news bears. I know a lot of Egyptian women that use that stuff (not for age spots, because pale=beautiful), and it is not pretty.
Oh right, I forgot about peels. I think wrinkles should be all you really need for your formidable old age. Downright leatheryness isn't required. Plus, you know, skin cancer, etc.
48: Similarly with women's clothing sizes, which seem to be made up out of thin air and which women seem to use a lot as shorthand for body type. If someone describes herself as a size 6, I have absolutely no idea what that means.
49: There is some conservation law at work: Pale women messing up their health trying to get dark while darker women mess up their health trying to get light.
they should just exchange houses, or something.
If someone describes herself as a size 6, I have absolutely no idea what that means.
I do.
Redfox, you rock. I'll go see a skin doc and ask about the skin cancer thing and see what she says.
42 - Skin lighteners are supposed to be really bad for you, though. Lots of really bad side effects.
Jeebus fucking Cripes, Becks. Why do you know that? What's the matter with Generation Awesome?
56 - I saw a segment about it on something like 60 Minutes a few years back.
51: I'd never try and differentiate a size 5 and a size 6. I'm not even sure that makes sense with sizing variability, in that most women I've know the `sizes' of were more like size +/- 1, in their wardrobe.
On the other hand differentiating, say 0, 3, 6, 10 is pretty easy.
With the cup size thing, perception really scales with the size of the rest of her, don't you think? I mean D cups on a size 0 or 1 girl are really going to stand out, on a size 10-11 girl though, they'd look average sized, I suspect. We are probably talking about something like 60lb difference between those two (with big error bars, of course)
Size six used to mean teeny tiny. They've recently readjusted the sizes and now it means slim. Zero means sticklike, 2-4 mean thin, 8, 10, 12 are average slender-average curvy; 14-16 are zaftig. But a lot ends up depending on shape and distrubtion. Plus then there's height...
At some point there arose this idea that D or DD cup size breasts are fucking gigantic, which is really not the case. It's all about the band size and the frame of the person they're on. I had a friend in college who wore I think 34DDD and her boobs didn't seem huge, just well-formed and hott.
Mmhmm. What's more fun: get properly fitted for a bra. Drop a band size and up two cup sizes. Tell your mother. Hold phone away from your ear as she gasps. No, mom, they haven't inflated.
Does size 3 even exist? I thought it was even numbers.
One just cannot find an image on the webs of the results of the acid treatment which is used in Brazil, butplease imagine that I am linking to that one, rather than its competition.
I think Jackmormon got it right here: By the time a woman is properly be-braed and clad, most men couldn't accurately estimate her cup size on a dare. All the women wearing the wrong sized bras screw up bra size estimation for you guys. But I suppose that's why God created a diverse variety of fruit.
59 is wrong on so many counts. First, odd-numbered sizes are in the "juniors" range--i.e., they're cut slimmer in the hips and bust. Even-numbered sizes are for adult women. Second, the cup size thing doesn't work the way you're thinking it does: a small woman with big cups won't look humongous, inasmuch as her actual bust measurement isn't going to be particularly huge, except in comparison with having a narrow back. Whereas a big woman with, say, a size B/C may have much larger breasts qua breasts than the small D or E-cup woman.
62: I think it's like guys jeans, sometimes you get odd waistbands, often you don't. I could swear I've seen odd sizes but I could be off-base there.
60: yeah, I was referring to the adjusted sizes; Of course womens body shapes vary far too much to pin too much on a number ... your ranges match my expectations though.
65: happy to bow to superior knowledge :)
Also, how could I forget? Junior sizes are way short in the inseam. I remember that being the issue that pushed me over into the women's department.
59: Not really. If you have, say, a 30 inch band size, it's very easy to get to an F cup without looking misproportioned. Also, not all big boobs are full and floaty, so the person's profile might be curvy, but not shocking.
60: And even that depends. My tall balletic roommate wears a larger size than I, but it's due entirely to height and hip width, not weight.
65: oh, and now I understand the odd/even thing. Two people I was thinking of probably bought junior sizes regularly, even though they were adults.
Odd numbers are indeed for juniors sizes, except that to confuse things further, a few places will size their garments something like 1, 2, 3 meaning small, medium, large.
64: Yeah, that's wrong. It's certainly not innate, but I think that while you're dating someone, you're probably pretty good at guessing bra sizes. To the extent we're wrong, it's because everyone is apparently mis-cupped.
Oh. And French bras are cut differently. Stupid French and their pointy boobs.
So here's a question: Does jackmormans comment apply almost as universally to women? I mean, bitch & others have repeatedly noted that many (most?) women don't know their own sizing properly, so would they be much better and guessing others?
I buy almost all of my clothes used, so I pretty much decide whether I'm going to try something on by holding it up against my body. That's because I have fit into clothes that call themselves size 12 and clothes that call themselves size 2. And that's before you get into English or European sizing calculations.
I can sympathize with wanting cosmetic procedures, but it is inconsistent with feminism. But humans can't comply with any ideal 100% of the time. If you want the procedure, go for it, but chalk it up in the appropriate category.
69: Yeah, the bra makes a big difference. If it's a good balconette style, you get the lovely decolletage ala Penelope Cruz in Volver (seriously, I watched that last night and discussed bras afterwards with my movie date). If it's a minimizer, it spreads the boob over a wider area and you look smaller. If you slouch a bit and weren't taught to suck your belly in, you look smaller. If it's a regular, well-fitting full-coverage bra, anything from a B to a DD is likely to look "average" to most people.
re 74: embarrassing to typo a name, sorry Jackmormon
Or the weird wannabe chic waistband by inches thing. It should be easier, except not only do I not know my waist measurements, I really have no clue what my measurements two inches below my waist would be.
I think I can guess within a certain range of sizes. For the larger cup sizes it's hard to know, but I think I can do A, B, C, D, DD, DDD with little problem (and band size too). Then again, I had mis-sized my own damn self for years, wearing DDD when I should have been H. So.
Like Cala said, up two cup sizes and down a b
74.--Nah, I couldn't guess most women's bra size accurately. Maybe if I saw the woman naked I'd have a guess, but even then, I wouldn't buy a bra for anyone who didn't tell me the exact size---and brand.
74: Yes, unless they are the assembled crew, who have all been properly educated on the subject.
76: Darn, you mean I can't claim laser age-spot removal as a tax deduction in Feminist UtopiaS of America?
Balconette bras are fun but it all, 'hello boobs, where did you come from?'
80: Okay, LeBlanc, you've met me. Hazard a guess.
Crap, I've been called on my bullshit. I'd say 36DDD.
78.--That's a preferably typo to the often-seen "Jackmoron" to which I usually just have to object.
This conversation is doing nothing to reduce my impression that guys have a much easier go of clothes shopping. Hell, I'm even the same waist & leg so one less number to remember.
But then, I wouldn't have put you in an H, either.
We really need to have a girl's weekend together sometime, you know that?
29 -- better would be a line of ants, maybe coming out of the left nostril.
Balconette bras are similar to push-up bras, right? I've always found that those look just weird in profile. From the front, sure, floaty decolletage; from the side, pointy underwire contraption, then sudden bal-LOON!
88: Sshhh! The women-folk are talking about their gigantic breasts.
I think I scared off B. Whom I haven't met. With a guess!
95: I know. FUUUUCK! I thought porn was about to break out. "Let me just slip out of my bra to see what the size is...." Wah-chacka-wa-chacka-wa-wa.
Hell, I'm even the same waist & leg so one less number to remember.
Me too, but either (a) no one else is or (b) everyone else is, because I frequently can't find pants in the right size.
92 - Balconette bras can be awesome if you're channelling Bettie Page.
Balconette bras can be awesome if you're channelling Bettie Page.
Is that consistent with feminism?
B has told us her bra size before. I won't spoil it for the guessers, though.
I'll just sit here feeling uncharacteristically flat-chested. Actually, the last time I checked, I had the average American bra size. Under the shaky assumption that I'm wearing the right size bras, of course.
I wasn't scared off, I went to take some more cold medicine and smoke a cigarette.
Cala's pretty good for having never met me! 32DD is what I wear; 30E is what I should wear, but as far as I know only two bra makers cut a 30, and I haven't yet managed to get my hands on either of 'em.
Balconettes aren't pushuppy, in that they don't have pads. They're just cut lower in front, which gives you the nice decolletage effect if you favor low-cut tops. I firmly deny that they create a bad profile.
Girls' weekend.
Yeah, I know. May have to settle for a night rather than a weekend, but yes.
Sorry we couldn't continue the conversation, gentlemen. I was busy, in the shower.
Aw, c'mon Leblanc. Surely you're way overdue for a beach vacation in sunny SoCali.
Yay! I win!
I just guessed based on clues you've strewn, and what I figure a self-described busty woman who's about my height should be.
I wonder if we're all wearing the wrong bra size, or it's just that styles have changed and that the more uplifted, show-off sculpted abs look is in style.
102: Don't feel bad. Maybe you're wrong. Maybe you should take off your bra and check the size listed... (Wa-chicka-wa-chicka-wa-wa.)
Well, I am coming to Los Angeles in late December, if you'll remember, to visit my sister. So, we'll see.
For all this talk of the right size bras, even though I now know what my correct size is, I'm too lazy/cheap to buy all new ones and throw out the old, so I'll just continue wearing my Wacoal 38DDD until it plum dies, thankyouverymuch.
106: See? All the bras in that link are *not* balconettes. Dammit.
Except for like this, but no way am I wearing a bra that has target shapes on it. Jesus.
Oh, I missed the balconette restriction.
My Chantelle's underwire has poked through the side. Tears. I must mend it because damn it is a lovely bra.
I'm positive I'm wearing the wrong size, both because they're just an approximation of what I have believed my size actually to be and because it's been quite a while since anyone has sized me properly. I can't be bothered to do anything about it, though, since there's no nice independent bra shop in my vicinity where I would expect to find someone good at the sizing. Victoria's Secret is the shits.
In Cala's link, are the girls modelling the bra size listed?
Dammit, Tim, quit breaking the fourth wall.
100 -
Feminism beats cosmetic procedures. But Bettie Page beats feminism. In the end, cosmetic procedures beat Bettie Page.
It's like paper-rock-scissors!
113: Probably not.
I went to Victoria's Secret once and the woman asked me if I'd lost a lot of weight. Bitch.
111: Less a restriction than a preference
113: Obviously not.
108: Perfect. I hope it doesn't clash with the MLA.
I'll have to tack it on my Netflix queue.
Those balcony bras don't look as though they have sufficient engineering for anyone over a moderately plump B-cup.
Often the D+ versions seem to have sturdier shoulder straps.
Pylons alone do not hold up the suspension bridge.
Actually, on the balconette question, this, though not really balconette, is a great bra that creates a lovely neckline.
By the way, B. I should thank you for the Walcoal recommendation. I normally buy whatever's on sale when the elastic in my last batch bites the dust, but this time I bought a bunch of Walcoals, and they are nice. Comfortable, yet fetching.
128: Glad to be of service. I've been beating the Wacoal drum since I discovered 'em in grad school.
I would love to buy Wacoals, but the damn things never go on sale!
131: Nordstrom's, uh, Rack has 'em. And ime Nordy's usually has a sale rack in the regular stores that has Wacoals on it, too.
Ok, now sicky girl is going to go take a nap.
No Nordstrom's near here. The department store near my parents' house, of all places, started carrying them but not in my size. Grr.
My current bra is riding up in the back and I don't know why but it can totally knock it off because it was the right size when I bought it a month ago.
Okay, so I just did some measuring, and it appears that I am the size I thought I was (and which my dumb VS bras are not), and now I'm feeling very tempted to drop some cash at figleaves.com, except, oops, that's kind of a lot of cash. Hm.
get my hands on either of 'em
Such exceedingly low fruit ought not go unpluck't.
131: Cala, go to the store and try them on to figure out what size and style you like, and then eBay them. I've got a drawer full of Wacoals, all bought new through eBay for $20-40.
134: Given the way the west end of the Bay Bridge has been fenced off behind Jersey barriers, the association of bras and suspension bridges makes me sad.
Wacoal straps go skidding right off my shoulders at the slightest provocation. Rrrr.
It depends on the strap for me. Some do and some don't.
I'll admit to being very boring and buying all of the same style in just different colors, unless I need a bra that satisfies a certain requirement. I don't like my bras feeling different from day-to-day. Yes, this is probably weird.
According to the link in 106, "DDD" is synonymous with "E".
This is totally unrelated but probably doesn't merit its own post, HOWEVER I find it very funny that the easiest way to find the lyrics for "Der Leiermann" is on page devoted to noted purveyors of EBM Covenant; also, Schubert is totally emo. Some enterprising emo band, if there are any left, should redo "Die Schöne Müllerin" or something.
Ben, you're working to make the world a worse place.
I am not in any way denying that Schubert is emo. Some knowledge should not be shared with the wrong people. From Schubert the road leads inevitably to Hitler.
These "exercise" machines are old news in Japan, my friend.
Youtube video of another satisfied customer.
In fact, though, horseback riding is great exercise.
English style is better than Western in this regard because of how much you use your legs, but this machine appears to take the leg work completely out of it.
You can get the real deal from Hammached-Schlemmer.
So, B, what balconettes do you like in 32DD? I don't see any from Wacoal (but maybe I'm looking in the wrong places).
From Schubert the road leads inevitably to Hitler.
This is so, so true. The Unfinished Symphony is more or less a blueprint for Treblinka.
I'm glad you picked up on that, FL. Many think that the Unfinished Symphony still belongs to Schubert's progressive period, but as Adorno has shown, the truth is quite the opposite.
149: One has to sort of hunt and peck. I defintely want to find a store that stocks Freya; at the moment I think I have a Lejaby and something by La Perla and one Freya. Feline is actually really good at that style in a modest price range, too.
This thread makes me kinda grateful I don't have breasts. They seem to be confusing and lots of work.
I don't know Lally Weymouth's bra size, but she controls the American media, and indirectly, your mind.
You thought it was Israel, but no. Lally is somewhat Jewish, but not terribly so.
Speaking of enormous boobs, check out this Cliff May post, called "Intellectual Firepower":
Afternoon panel on radical Islamism included Bernard Lewis, Victor Davis Hanson, Mark Steyn, David Pryce-Jones, Robert Conquest et al. Not easy to sum up these discussions. (Besides, dinner is soon to be served.)
I will add this: It’s good to get out of Dodge and be among patriots and conservatives (but I repeat myself).
Is it possible to add any member to that group and increase the probability of its being completely wrong?
Freya or Fantasie, which ever one it was, makes absolutely gorgeous bras. I tried one on once at a lingerie shop and yayyyyy pretty.
Is it possible to add any member to that group and increase the probability of its being completely wrong?
You'd need a special kind of tool.
153: One is not born; one becomes A Woman. And it is a lot of work.
Is it possible to add any member to that group and increase the probability of its being completely wrong?
Oo, oo, I got one!
Amir Taheri.
Really. Boobs are a pain in the.. lower back.
152: Oh, and Chantelle, stupid me. Heart Chantelle.
158: SB! Did you just call Cala a tool?
You'd need a special kind of tool.
That is to say, Hugh Hewitt.
158: SB! Did you just call Cala a tool?
I'm not sure how you got that impression. No.
155: Dinesh D'Souza came to U.Va. shortly after 9/11. His lecture, "Why They Hate Us", seemed incomplete (lacking as it did, any reason not to lurrrve the USA). I nominate him.
164: I'm trying to reconstruct it and I keep envisioning that I accidentally ensconced the panel of Clueless Islamist Expert with a bra.
I say someone takes it to the front page for a vote!
Be sure to include Cala's bra among the nominations.
161 - Word. My ex would occasionally come up behind me and lift my breasts with his hands. Every time, my entire posture changed and I would sigh in relief, although I hadn't known I was under strain. If you have the opportunity, on either part, you should try it. I wouldn't have guessed how it changed my whole alignment until I experienced it.
My ex would occasionally come up behind me and lift my breasts with his hands. Every time, my entire posture changed and I would sigh in relief
When did this thread go from bra talk to Penthouse Letters?
Right about the time Megan showed up.
164, 167: I will reveal the inner working's off B's mind....
158 could be construed to read "You'd need a special kind of tool [to add any member to that group...]." Cala added a member to that group. Ergo.
173: Yes, exactly. I was trying to put SB on the spot for having commented simultaneously w/Cala, but having had his comment post after hers.
Ah well.
170: Behind every buxom woman should be a supportive man.
The device linked in 11 is positively horrifying.
170: Wow, that was surprisingly effective.
The difference shocked me, which is why I risk being mocked by cruel people with filthy minds. I make this sacrifice for my sisters, that they may have the same experience.
I am a cruel person with a filthy mind, but I have no desire to mock you or your sisters. I just want to lend a helping hand or two.
i've tried it...it's wonderful!
Does 181 refer to breast-lifting or the igallop? (Or the device in 11?)
Or my helping hands specifically?
Full-breasted women will never achieve true equality until we have male lackeys to tote around our boobs for us.
male lackeys to tote around our boobs for us.
Lacteys is the precise term, I believe.
Or Lacheys. Although the only one I'm aware of turned out to be superfluous.
