On the one hand:
that looks cool, and I'm going to try it. (I bake almost daily, using my King Arthur bread machine. Makes a great all-purpose loaf, and the kids love it. But sometimes I do yearn for more ambitious baking.)
On the other hand:
I'm pretty sure Judy Miller is going to declare these things are the missing WMDs and she and her buddy Ahmed are vindicated after all.
Because it is, still, the NYT.
My kids ate this like wolves. The crust shatters when you cut it -- I've never seen anything like it out of a home oven. I baked it in a 10" dutch oven, which was probably a little big, because it was kind of flat. Next time I'll find something smaller.
I've got to try that. The attached article suggested that rye works as well, so that's what I'm going to do. (I haven't yet dared to start a sponge culture, but rye breads really taste better with the more fermented yeasts; this technique might really work as a shortcut.)
2: LB, how many quarts does your dutch oven hold? I saw this recipe and have been wanting to try it, but the dutch oven investment is expensive. The recipe calls for a 6-8 quart pot, but I'd never have another use for a pot so large.
The recipe is also extremely fault-tolerant. For instance, you could (hypothetically, of course) destroy your heavy-lidded pot in a pre-heating accident; spend a futile half-hour in the store examining products that turn out to either look ugly, give you a paper cut, or vaporize at 400 degrees; and then you could damn it to hell and plop half the batter into a loaf pan covered with tin foil, and STILL it would work, no problems. It is miracle Jesus bread.
Interesting. Here, you can buy bread in the stores.
At least 8, maybe more, and it was too big if anything. I think any reasonable sized casserole would work: it doesn't have to be cast-iron.
5: Did you actually do that? Because if so, cool.
6: Bite me.
8: I can neither confirm nor deny.
6: Bite me.
6: Bite me.
Will your crust shatter?
On days when I'm feeling fragile, perhaps.
Bake me.
At the next meet-up, you're toast.
6: Depends where here is, and on what you Amis call "bread".
you could (hypothetically, of course) destroy your heavy-lidded pot in a pre-heating accident
Did the plastic handles and/or knob on the lid melt off or something?
"I baked it in a 10" dutch oven"
"how many quarts does your dutch oven hold?"
"dutch oven investment is expensive."
hee hee hee!
This sounds pretty similar to making a sourdough starter, only pre-seeded with commercial yeast instead of catching all your yeast in the wild.
Now I want to try this, but I can't, because it's raining. Waah.
What's a magicial, or can you not tell me that either?
The dictionary words are spies for the establishment, so I must make my own.
one thing you cannot buy in stores, at least in North America, is bread.
Bake it yourself, or buy bread-substitute.
What's a magicial
It's the feeling Moltar gets when Bowser snuggles in his pants.
22: *Sigh*
Is there no new thing under the sun?
one thing you cannot buy in stores, at least in North America, is bread.
Oh come on, at the major grocery chains maybe, but in any city, you can find very good bread.
Actually, Mitch, I was hoping you'd opine. You're the baker, right? Or have I got the wrong guy?
This is sponge method, which is a good method. A whole bread cookbook exists which is devoted to this method, if memory serves it is the Tassajara bread book but maybe not.
24: Living in a foodie-friendly city, we get great bread at our local store, but it's like $3 a loaf, so we spend probably $450 a year on bread alone. Holy shit -- I just realized how much we spend on bread. LB, what kind of flour are you using?
26- I don't know, I've heard the sponge method is somewhat unreliable. I have a brother in law who was a result of that method.
27 - I'll get Redfoxtailshrub to weigh in, but I believe she favors King Arthur White Wheat.
I do indeed like KA white wheat, a whole wheat flour, often in a 50/50 mix with KA all-purpose, which has more protein than most all-purpose -- it's something like 11.5%.
I just made bread with KA bread flour. Delicious. (But a lot of that deliciousness had to do with that saffron I mentioned before.)
My usual bread method involves a long slow rise, little yeast, a wet dough, and very little kneading -- normally I mix the yeast, flour and water, let it sit for about 20 minutes, add the salt, mix again, do a few sets of "turns," where you dump out the dough onto a very well-floured surface, stretch it out, and fold it up, over the course of a few hours, then pop it into the fridge to ferment overnight. I'm looking forward to trying this simpler approach to see how the results compare.
Huh -- looks like I read the post incompletely before. The Tassajara (or whatever) sponge method is the first half of this recipe, but then you add more flour to get to a dough consistency before you do the second rise. So never mind, and if you see me spouting nonsense, reprimand me.
I think I will make this bread for Thanksgiving.
Elizabeth David, if I remember correctly, insists that no more than 1/4 teaspoon of yeast is needed--that most bread recipes call for far too much yeast. My father, who is a far better baker than I, and took classes in breadmaking at Johnson and Wales as well as up at King Arthur, doesn't use more than than, or knead his dough at all. It's very wet, and he cuts it up with a dough scraper and recombines it periodically during the course of a long, slow, cold rise (I was all proud of the fast rise I could get by putting the dough into my gas oven with a lit pilot until he showed me the way.) Obviously there are different kinds of bread that call for different preparation, but often less yeast and less flour=better bread.
The King Arthur white whole wheat flour rocks, and their regular all-purpose is definitely the thing to use with it.
Sometimes I envy one of my brothers, who is a food scientist. Nowadays he gets to direct whole factories in the making of bread. 1000 lbs. of flour, go now! Sounds fun. He used to deal with pourable (as opposed to spoonable) oils; I think he likes the baking better.
Meat is a delicious substitute for bread!
In Philly I found a butcher who sells wild game, and I picked up 4-lb venison roast (after passing on an 8-lb elk roast that looked marvelous but was just too much meat for too much money), rabbit sausage, and boar prosciutto. And figs—figs! This week I'm grilling a la Chopper figs with honey, wrapped in boar prosciutto.
Please, 'Smasher -- the drool is not good for my peripherals.
Oh come on, at the major grocery chains maybe, but in any city, you can find very good bread.
I have not yet found in the environs of Palo Alto, nor did I ever find in Chicago, any bread that was as good as that I enjoyed in Athens—but I have been privileged to pay seven to eight times as much as I payed in Athens for the best replacements I've been able to find.
Gonna be a cold weekend in DC. Outside huddled around the grill. You don't want to be uncomfortable. Maybe you should just send those victuals across the river. I know folks who can use them.
This bread recipe and the story are among the top 10 on the Times' site. The main story is worth reading as it discusses some of the whys--like why the crust is so crusty. It even quotes McGee.
I have two ducth ovens. I might try this.
My sister & her fiance made a fucking delicious venison rack last December.
Your CD arrived today, Ben. Many thanks. I'm enjoying it very much.
Oh, thanks, good to see that at least one's arrived.
I actually came here to say, though, that if you get a large-capacity dutch oven, especially one that's nonreactive, you'll probably find plenty of use for it.
There was a CD in my mailbox too!
Thanks Ben.
Think your sister has a recipe for a venison roast, Ben? I have one that suggests marinading it in a buttermilk-based marinade for 2+ days (!). Venison is relatively dry, but that sounds intense.
I didn't check my mailbox until I saw apo's note. I'm surprised that the East Coast reported in 1st.
I wonder how long until the 1st one gets to DC? The mail service can be a little erratic there.
Oh yeah -- speaking of CD's from Ben, I am listening to one just now. It's personalized! Ought to go look up the track list and find out what I'm listening to at some point.
Think your sister has a recipe for a venison roast, Ben?
Such advanced cooks as my sister don't need no stinkin' "recipes", 'Smasher. But if you want, I can ask her.
Did you get that stuff at the Italian Market, 'Smasher?
Yes to venison recipes. Mmmm, venison. The restaurant where I used to work did this incredible venison dish with a sauce involving celeriac and leeks, and I sorely wish I'd gotten the recipe when I had the chance.
Bambi ruined venison for a lot of people in childhood. It's a lot easier to enjoy it when you realize that deer are, as John McPhee put it, rats with hooves.
Celeriac, and celery stalks, are sorely underrated.
I was thinking about trying this recipe, but I lack a large heavy pot. Biggest things I have are pasta pots, but they're very light, one's aluminum, one's stainless. I have a small casserole dish, only 4 quarts I think. Given 5, it sounds like you could use a cereal dish heated by sunlight, but can I get away with a lightweight pot, or is the dutch oven or larger casserole dish required?
Sorely. Here's a great salad: cut turnips, celeriac, leeks and gruyère (in a ratio of roughly 3:2:1:1) into toothpick-thin pieces and combine; drizzle with lemon juice and olive oil. Done.
49: It's a lot easier to enjoy it when you realize that deer are, as John McPhee put it, rats with hooves.
But is it easier to enjoy eating it? Or were you referring to enjoying Bambi more?
But is it easier to enjoy eating it? Or were you referring to enjoying Bambi more?
Well, both. Actually, when I remember Bambi, I think of rabbit. Mmmm, Thumper.
48: Yup. My friend lives steps away.
You're starting to sound like you could be an Eagles fan, teo.
as John McPhee put it
When I think of McPhee I think of Moose. (Well, after I think of rocks.)
There's a fabulous diary of meals in Coming into the Country (pp. 296-7) that is heavily-weighted toward moose. A few from the middle:
Take me to the highway, 'Smasher; show me a sign. Take it to the limit one more time.
"This sounds pretty similar to making a sourdough starter, only pre-seeded with commercial yeast instead of catching all your yeast in the wild.
Now I want to try this, but I can't, because it's raining. Waah."
My understanding is that commercial yeasts only last a few rounds in a culture. afterwhich the natural yeasts take the fuck over anyway.
I just realised this recipe is suspiciously like the recipe i've been using. i rule.
Except mine used a sourdough starter, and whole wheat, and a ridicouslu amount of extra gluten, and a bit of olive oil. I mostly use it to make pizza crusts though.
ANd i've never seen whole wheat sourdough bread anywhere. mostly when i buy commerical bread i buy trader joe's hwole wheat english muffins.
What I want to know is who the fuck has time to make bread? Do you make *all* the bread you eat? Please tell me it's a special occasion thing.
I make a batch on the weekends every so often. It doesn't take all that much time, as long as you're going to be hanging around the house anyway, and I like messing with dough.
This recipe is remarkably little trouble. Four ingredients in a bowl, stir for a minute, ignore for 18 hours. Dump it onto a board, poke at it for literally a minute or two, leave it for fifteen minutes. Scrape it onto a floured towel, leave it for two hours. Throw it in the oven, uncover it after half an hour, take it out after an hour. You never spend more than five minutes interacting with it at a time, and you probably spend less than 15 minutes of attention total.
I'm doing a test run on this baby this week in preparation for a possible Thanksgiving use. I found it totally plausible that this would make really good crusty bread.
56: Mmmmmmm, ratty.
RFTS, I think you mean, "mmmmm, The Ratty."
Yesterday I made braised short ribs for the first time, and oh my wow. Incredible.
Ben, my CD arrived a few days ago, and I forgot to say anything, because I'm a jerk, but sadly there's a big scratch on it and it won't play. Wah.
Given 5, it sounds like you could use a cereal dish heated by sunlight
This totally cracked me up. I'll have to try it.
but can I get away with a lightweight pot, or is the dutch oven or larger casserole dish required?
You really can put half the dough into a 1.5 quart pyrex loaf pan and get delicious crispy-crusty bread. Do the same to the other half for twice the fun. I couldn't tell you how the result compares to bread made from the unmodified recipe, but I can say that I was entirely pleased with the result.
You can actually get cast-iron dutch ovens pretty cheap at places like Value Village, etc.
My god, you all bake bread. I'll be in the corner, weeping manfully.
I believe that this many people bake bread from time to time. I just find it hard to believe that so many people read this article in the NYT this weekend and said "I must make this recipe right now".
Dutch ovens aren't so expensive. $40 should get you an all-cast-iron model from Lodge, or just an enameled-cast-iron-casserole kind of thing from somewhere in China, via Target.
This seems like the kind of recipe I might try just chucking directly onto my pizza stone, though, without any cover (or invert a regular metal mixing bowl over it if it really seems essential).
78: I don't bake bread, and I was tempted to try this recipe. Were I a seasoned baker (a leavened baker?), and had the ingredients on hand, it sounds so easy that how could I not?
Actually, M/tch, I was hoping you'd opine. You're the baker, right? Or have I got the wrong guy?
I wouldn't say I was the baker, but I do bake a lot. And of course when we get our Unfogged New York Co-op set up, I'll be happy to be the baker for that endeavor.
But anyway, the techniques of a very wet dough and long slow rising are definitely winners when it comes to great taste and texture. That pretty much describes all of my baking. The innovation here is baking it in a small covered space, which makes so much sense I wonder why I or someone else hasn't thought of it before.
I do bake a lot
Oh, I thought this was some other dude. Some guy from North Carolina. Semicolon-something-or-other. Ah, shit, I can't remember. Fucking short term…
Catherine is an awesome baker. Our house is vastly improved by her enormous mixomatic machine.
I'm with BPhD on the 'who the fuck has time to bake bread?' thing...
Also, I am a total incompetent when it comes to flour-based cookery. I can improvise a delicious meal from any old random crap in the fridge/cupboard and can make elaborate French haute cuisine recipes [when I can be bothered] but the minute flour and yeast get involved, I turn into the worst cook in the world.
That said, I am now craving some good bread* and have an urge to try this recipe to see if even I don't mess it up.
* Luckily, I can buy good bread locally. Oxford has a couple of places where really nice bread can be had.
I've been browsing dutch ovens on eBay ever since that Times article appeared, and have found some cheap(ish) vintage Pyrex amber glass dutch ovens, which have the advantage of being kind of beautiful. But standpipe b -- you used a loaf pan + tinfoil -- really? I should try this before spending on another not-entirely-necessary piece of cookware.
zomg 7 qt enamelled cast iron dutch oven only $120 marked down from $198! (Two of the colors: liberty blue, patriot red.) And you can get a 5qt unenamelled one for under $30. Cast! iron! dutch! oven! Or a 7 quart pre-seasoned unenamelled one for $40!
Given the title of this thread, I feel it's the appropriate place to note the suckitude of the joke which appears to be the inspiration for today's (Monday's) Times Crossword.
What is exactly a dutch Oven? Is it a heavy, lidded, cast-iron casserole of the sort made by Le Creuset? Because in that case we should remember that Jeanette Winterson claimed that when she worked as a lesbian prostitute she would take payment in Dutch ovens.
heating your Le Creuset up to 450 degrees is a very good way to ruin it and give yourself phosgene poisoning into the bargain, IIRC. I think that the "heavy pan" aspect of this is unlikely to be all that important; the point would be that you want the pan to be hot when the dough hits it, which is of course easier with a heavy pan than a light one.
A Dutch oven is not enamelled; it is just a cast iron pot with a cast iron or glass lid. Agreed that using an enamelled pot for this job would be a mistake.
I noticed a link to this recipe a couple of days ago and saved it, since I've been meaning to get back to making yeast bread again (used to make mainly sourdough a couple of years back). In the meantime though I made brown soda bread last night which is easy-peasy. I made some of it as little scones and brought two for lunch today. I can also highly recommend the Jamie Oliver silicone loaf tins and muffin tray, the internal steel rim makes them less awkwardly floppy than normal silicone bakeware.
A Dutch oven is not enamelled; it is just a cast iron pot with a cast iron or glass lid.
While many Duch ovens are cast iron, not all are, and some are enameled. It's just a large, heavy pot with a lid that can be used with either direct or indirect heat.
What I want to know is who the fuck has time to make bread?
I love my four day work week.
But standpipe b -- you used a loaf pan + tinfoil -- really?
Yes. I make no guarantees that it won't crawl out of your oven and drink all your beer, but it did really work for me.
heating your Le Creuset up to 450 degrees is a very good way to ruin it and give yourself phosgene poisoning into the bargain, IIRC.
No, they're iron and enamel that is baked onto the iron in an actual kiln, designed to go into the oven. You're thinking of Teflon, perhaps.
I thought heating an enamelled pot without anything in it would cause the enamel to crack. Guess not.
67 et al.: My wife Molly bakes most of the bread we eat. This is very very important to her, for reasons that are hard to articulate. Some of it is simply that she puts a lot of ingredients like flax seed and mushed up vegetables in the bread, so we can be sure to get more nutrients into our children. (Flax seed is especially good for vegetarians.) There is also a self image thing going on here: we are the kind of people who bake our own bread. This is actually pretty standard for our crowd. Friends of ours not also ferment their own yogurt, brew their own beer, build their own houses, butcher their own chickens, etc.
The whole thing winds up being a drain not just on her time, but on my time, too, since there are so many shared responsibilities any project that one person takes on means that the other person has to shoulder the work they would have done. I can't really complain though, since I frequently take on projects whose purpose seems obscure to Molly. (Why am I taking a seminar on Islam? Why can't I stop commenting on Unfogged?) Also, just now I ate some fucking excellent bannana bread.
79: This seems like the kind of recipe I might try just chucking directly onto my pizza stone, though, without any cover (or invert a regular metal mixing bowl over it if it really seems essential).
I think the cover is key -- the useful weirdness of this bread is that it's very wet dough, and steams itself in the small covered space, and the steam makes the excellent crust.
Also, molly wants to know if the recipe would work with regular, rather than instant, yeast.
Yep. Like a charm.
I've never seen instant yeast in a grocery store -- where do people buy it?
Putting a Le Creuset pot in an oven at 450 degrees is a good way to ruin the pot and kill yourself with phosgene gas? Excuse me? Guess I've been doing it wrong for the last, oh, I dunno 16 years.
101: The gas doesn't kill you. It just releases toxins that drive you toward the political center.
I think dsquared must have been thinking of teflon, rather than enamel. If there were any problem with getting enamel flaming hot, they wouldn't cover cast-iron pans with it, would they?
85: Advise against the Pyrex stovetop stuff. It's okay, but it tends to scorch on the bottom.
One advantage of a Dutch oven is that besides baking bread in it, you can use it for soups, stews, and so forth. It's sort of the original crock pot. Also useful for making big batches of tomato sauce.
103 -- and yet the same objection could be applied to teflon, right?
AFAIK, they don't, mostly, cover cast iron with teflon. Non-stick pans are usually lighter metal, and aren't intended for use in the oven.
So we're all agreed, then, that non-stick pans are an abomination? Cool.
No, they're iron and enamel that is baked onto the iron in an actual kiln, designed to go into the oven. You're thinking of Teflon, perhaps.
Also, you'll get carbonyl fluoride/fluorine gas from cooking teflon too hot, not phosgene.
Teflon, yes. Not a Le Crueset pot, which isn't covered in Teflon, as folks have already observed.
Non-stick pans are largely useless--a well-seasoned cast iron pan is just as "non-stick"--but I do use ours for omelettes and nothing else.
Non-stick pans are largely useless--a well-seasoned cast iron pan is just as "non-stick"--but I do use ours for omelettes and nothing else.
Oh, you and your centrist, sensible ways. Quit fucking with the comity, TB!
I thought heating an enamelled pot without anything in it would cause the enamel to crack. Guess not.
One of the many beauties of owning Le Crueset cookware is that if that happened, Le Crueset would replace it.
Non-stick is great for eggs, but also for bacon and hamburgers (i.e. meats for which you're not going to use a fond. to make an accompanying pan sauce and that don't require much of a sear).
Yep. I'm quite happy with my non-stick pans, thankyouverymuch.
You know, the one thing that Le Creuset won't replace is a scratched non-stick surface.
Never again will I buy non-stick.
You don't want a fond on hamburgers? Weird. I sure do.
I don't really get what the problem is, that non-stick surfaces are the solution to. Is it the difficulty of cleaning pans which have food burned on to them? That comes up pretty infrequently and when it does, you can just soak the pan in water or (for the really bad mess) soapy water for a day, most anything will come off. Or is it something to do with the cooking process? The smallest quantity of oil will prevent food from sticking to a pan while it is cooking.
I don't get why people are so adamantly against non-stick pans. They're shockingly easy to clean, which is nice, frankly, if you don't care for hand-washing stuff. They're super easy to make eggs in, and as long as you don't use a metal utensil, they do a nice job with most other things as well. There's no reason to ban them from the kitchen.
just soak the pan in water [...] for a day
You just answered your own question, yo. I'm impatient. I want to wipe it once with a sponge and stick it in the dishwasher.
It's at the lousy end of the cookware market. Lousy lightweight cheap stainless pans make food burn and stick even with lots of oil; lousy cheap teflon works much better, until it gets scratched. With good pans, I don't get it either.
119 -- But having something burned on so badly as to require a day's soaking is such an infrequent occurrence -- I just can't see that being the motivation for introducing a whole new species of cookware.
Oh I see -- 120 is a good explanation.
Well, I don't put mine in the dishwasher b/c of the scratching potential, which is why being able to wipe it with a sponge matters to me. Voila, clean.
I guess I am just shitty at making scrambled eggs, but I find them very hard to do successfully in anything but nonstick. Other kinds of egg preparations, sure, but scrambled, uh uh.
Well, when you don't even have a dishwasher, doing a little handwashing on a traditional pan doesn't really pose that much of a problem.
Plus I hate cleaning egg off of things, it gunks up the scrubby side of the sponge in a specially revolting way.
Seriously, buy a $12 non-stick pan, use it for the 2 years until the surface degrades, pitch it, get another. Nonstick is not a long-term investment like saute pan, it's a consumable.
125: Oh right, JM, victory through greater deprivation. This moral superiority thing isn't going to work, missy.
129: This is why the terrorists hate us.
116: A fond is the bits left in the pan, often used to create pan sauces. I like a bit of crust on my burgers, sure, but that's the part that sticks to the meat, and doable with a nonstick pan.
131: I thought that they hated us for the people who buy pans that cost more than the median household income in their home countries.
Which wouldn't apply to those of us cooking in ten-dollar (twenty-dollar? It was a decade ago the last time I bought a cast iron pan) cast iron.
129 goes against everything I believe. At least, it violates my ecological principles, which are a thin veneer over my cheapskate principles.
Look, a couple of years ago I inherited a Le Creuset dutch oven from my grandfather's house. Since he was a legendary cheapskate who didn't really enjoy cooking, it's probable that the dutch oven dated from my grandmother's time, which means that the fucker is at least thirty years old. Looks like new--and I plan to use it for another thirty years. It's one of my favorite things, and I use it to cook all kinds of shit it wasn't designed for.
134: God, I love being sanctimonious.
Yup, cast iron is cheap. But it is also heavy as fuck.
Anyway, it isn't a cast iron vs. non-stick vs. cheap alumnium vs. expensive steel w/ a copper core argument. It's not like you can't or don't have different pans for different uses, people.
I have two pans and a dutch oven. I'm going to ask for a smaller cast iron pot for Christmas, and then I'll be DONE.
137: Big-kitchened-fascist. Seriously, space is a big issue for me, and cast-iron is the most multipurpose possible material for cookware, meaning that I need less of it.
"Different pans for different uses" might be true, but it bears suspicious similarity to "different knives for different uses", a line primarily used, I suspect, to hawk overpriced knife sets to naïfs. (Not that you'd want to use one of those beaky paring knives to do the work of a chef's knife, or vice versa, but most people should be able to get by with two knives; three if you count a bread knife.)
My wife used to work in a schmancy cookware store, during a period when Le Crueset was running some sort of promotion that gave the cookware sellers free cookware when they sold enough Le Crueset. So we have an assload of the stuff. The dutch ovens (1 medium and 1 small) and stock pot are the only ones we use, though.
141: Chef's, paring, kitchen shears, bread, slicing, cleaver, in that order. I don't have the slicer (I use an electric knife for my carving needs, but it's not particuarly elegant) or the cleaver.
three if you count a bread knife
Don't forget the cleaver.
Chef's, slicing, bread, and a couple of paring knives b/c they're the ones I use most often and are frequently dirty or doing other things. I don't have a cleaver or kitchen shears yet. Oh, and a cheese/tomato knife with the holes in the center so it doesn't stick, for which I will not apologize b/c it's quite handy.
Pans: two non-stick Calphalons, for eggs and stir-fry and such. Two small cast iron, one large cast iron, one large enameled cast iron that Mr. B. took from his mom's house when he left for college. A small stainless saucepan and a medium stainless covered saucepan. Two cheap-ass revereware pans that I will throw away at some point. A large stock pot with steamer insert. A roasting pan. Two dutch ovens, both handed down from somewhere.
It's true that my current kitchen is (too) big. The last one was like 11x13, though, and worked great (once we redid it). I once had a kitchen that was, I swear to you, the size of the shower in the current master bath; other than the one we redid in the old house, it was actually my favorite b/c it was so intelligently designed.
Firing up the Jackmormon email Batsignal!
146
"I don't have a cleaver"
that's weird, B--I thought you were totally into cleavage.
One of my favorite knives is a ceramic paring knife, by Kyocera. You have to treat it a little delicately--no trips through the dishwasher, for instance--because the edge can chip. But it stays sharp, it cleans easily, and it's light and easy to use.
Email batsignal received; diving in.
also on a trip through Normandy last year my wife bought a proper copper-bottomed omelette pan from a small village where they are made. I pooh-poohed it at the time as mere frippery and no improvement on our well-seasoned cast iron.
Well, strike me with a pig-swatter: that pan is leap-years ahead of cast-iron for even browning. French toast, grilled cheese, anything you want to have an even golden brown on (as well as omelettes) comes out perfect with this pan. Very cool.
('pig swatter' sorry; obscure reference. There's a scene in one of the Dr. Doolittle books where the duck threatens to hit the pig with a large skillet. A family favorite.)
146: I wasn't listing all the pans I have/use. Suffice it so say that with two cooks merging their collections then getting married and receiving additional items, it's a lot.
I can't think of much I would want in the way of traditional wedding presents and can readily imagine being kinda unhappy about receiving most of 'em. You don't usually get nice stereo systems for weddings, do you?
Nope. Ask for stuff that's easily returnable and use the cash from that to get what you want.
A woman who works for Buck got married recently and was registered at REI for the coolest stuff. I was so happy getting to buy an axe off her registry -- much more fun than forks. But you can register for almost anything. And if you don't, most people will give money.
(We didn't register out of laziness and a vague and poorly supported sense that it was tacky. The vast majority of guests gave money; the rest gave vases, with one set of Buck's college friends showing up with a very peculiar glass clock.)
I'm not sure that would work; Mormon relatives aren't the types to give money.
One woman who would have to die to get left off my wedding invitation list, the old organist at my mom's ward, gets every young couple a good hammer. I ran into her at the hardware store while she was buying one for some poor couple. "You always need a hammer!" she said, "and you'd be astonished how many people don't have one!" Well, I already own a hammer. But if I ever get married, I'm a-gonna get another one.
I do need a power drill, though.
I thought that one set of Buck's friends gave a glass cock.
Will Baude thinks it's tacky to ask for money when you've got all the needful in the way of traditional wedding gifts, but I don't see how it's any tackier than having a registry; if anything, it seems less tacky to me.
man we got like *nothing* for our wedding. Literally. And we had an okay number of guests, it's just that they were mostly dirt poor, too. (One of the drawbacks of getting married while you're still in college).
As for the older set, i.e. parents and friends of parents, I think they just wrote it off as such a long shot that they weren't willling to invest in it.
twenty plus years and two kids later, we have the laugh on them.
Would have been nice to have more tchotschkes, though. Even to return for cash back. Could a used the cash.
Oh--and you're totally right about the powerdrill, you always need one of those. Ask for a good Milwaukee 18-volt cordless, or a DeWalt if they don't want to spring for a Milwaukee.
JM, I think the primary reason to get married is for the cookware. When else in your life are people going to give you gifts like that? No one's ever going to say, congrats, you got your Ph.D., would you like some lovely Le Creuset pans for your kitchen? Nooooo.
Registry's aren't as romantic, nor does it really feel like you're giving a gift, but I don't know that they're any tackier than having everyone ask the bride's mother & maid of honor what to get.
But if you keep having birthdays and surviving to the next Christmas, people start to give you cookware out of desperation!
I nearly got a Cuisinart last Christmas, which for a long time I maintained was the only reason to get married, but then I made onion soup with my mother's and decided it was more trouble than it was worth.
The only wedding-registry item I can imagine wanting right now is a serving platter, and now that I've imagined it, I'm going to put it on my Christmas wish-list.
Both asking for money and registering are tacky; nonetheless, registering has become so common that if you don't register, a lot of people will gripe at you. We registered, and if people asked, we told them where.
That said, you really can register practically everywhere these days. If you want a stereo system, register at a place that sells stereos. Hell, Amazon does wedding registries now.
1) You get a lousy crust on burgers with nonstick.
2) I sometimes *do* make a sauce with the crusty bits from burgers. Not often, mind you, but if the impulse strikes, where would I be in a nonstick?
Mmm, kitchenware fights. I'm a big cast-iron fan for many things, but I also love the Calphalon crepe pans for totally zero-friction eggs and pancakes (I still use butter with it). I mean, cast iron is smooth, but this stuff is ridiculous. Also, Amazon tends to carry them for about $25, so I give them to different people who swear they aren't able to cook eggs (The connection of nonstick cookware to the Manhattan Project also gives me a thrill, so I'm likely to always own at least one piece.)
I'm making the bread that started this post, and I'm kind of stuck at the "form into a ball" stage. What I have is the approximate consistency of jelly - the idea of forming it with anything but a mold is hilarious. I do have it resting, lumpily, in a towel, and perhaps I'll just have a very flat bread at the bottom of my dutch oven....
Don't think much of Calphalon, while we're at it. All-Clad for teh win.
That was what I had, and it did come out sort of flat, but excellent.
Okay, it eventually came out. Interesting. The bottom was nearly glassy - the result of cooking in enamel, I guess. Next time I'll reduce the water, or be more careful with the flour. I saw "3 cups" and translated to "13.5 oz" on my scale, but I should double-check that if I want any structure.
Excellent with butter, honey, or Dr. Gonzo's Peppermash and sour cream.
Rose Levy Beranbaum on weight equivalents for those volume measures in this recipe.
Oh, or better yet, her follow-up post is here, with revised weight equivalents and discussion.
You know, I made salmon tonight with a lime/coconut sauce in a nonstick pan and the salmon turned out nicely browned and the sauce was delicious. *And* I don't have a cast-iron pan with fishy bits sitting on the counter overnight making the kitchen stink, either.
But you have ingested all sorts of nasty salmony toxins!!!!!11!
Whatever, it was wild. And it tasted good.
Is that a for real Hirschfeld caricature on RL Berenbaum's site?
Okay, the dough's a-rising. I halved the recipe (though not the yeast), decided to forego measuring implements, and got drunk shortly before mixing it up, so we'll see just how foolproof it is.
I've asked the family for a dutch oven for Christmas, and since they're very serious about obligatory holiday gift giving, I have reason to be hopeful. (Requests last month at birthday-time rendered good results, i.e., a dozen vials of high grade saffron.)
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"a cast-iron pan with fishy bits sitting on the counter overnight making the kitchen stink"
now this I totally agree with.
If you're going to be a rabid cast-iron puritan, as some up above have shown tendencies toward, you have got to jump on the clean-up, like pronto. Not just with fish, but with anything vaguely acidic, indeed with anything.
So I have some cumin in my cabinet, for making chili, and was wondering what else cumin is traditionally pared with. So I decided to do a little internet research, which first led me here, which had an eye-catching note on pronunciation.
Cumin (pronounced "comein"
Not how I say it.
I'm really torn on whether this comment belongs here, or in the thread on labs's colon.
Cumin is important in Indian cuisine where is goes hand-in-hand with coriander. I also don't pronounce it that way.
Pans: two non-stick Calphalons, for eggs and stir-fry and such.
You know, I made salmon tonight with a lime/coconut sauce in a *nonstick* pan and the salmon turned out nicely browned and the sauce was delicious.
By "non-stick" do you mean calphalon? Because when I say "nonstick" I mean teflon-coated. I'm not a particular fan of calphalon, but it is not an abomination, as teflon-coated pans are.
Do they make teflon-coated calphalon? That seems particularly pointless.
I'm working at home tomorrow, so I just started a batch, using 50/50 King Arthur all-purpose and wheat flours and the following proportions, mostly borrowed from Rose Levy Beranbaum:
468 g. flour
384 g. water
1/4 t yeast (my scale isn't sensitive enough to do that one)
8 g. salt
I'll be using a 5 quart Le Creuset soup pot to bake it in, which I sincerely hope will be large enough.
Good luck, rfts, let us know how it turns out (although I'm pretty sure it will turn out great).