Re: The Talk

1

Fortunately this hasn't come up. In my value system, exposing somebody to an STD without warning or protection would be just an incredibly immoral thing to do. I like to think that I wouldn't get intimately involved with people whose value systems are different...so far I've been right.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 5:33 PM
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My current S.O. suggested we both get tested before, and she did it in a very assertive but non-accusatory way, "You know, we really ought to get tested." Left me feeling like an upstanding citizen, rather than a disease-ridden creep, when the doctor shoved a q-tip up my urethra.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 5:39 PM
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"before" s/b "before makin' whoopie"


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 5:40 PM
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With lies.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 5:46 PM
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Becks, what are you trying to tell me?


Posted by: mike d | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 5:47 PM
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Stanley's approach is good. Usually for me, once someone and I are flirting pretty heavily and the potential for sex is in the air, I'll just say something like, "by the way, you should probably know that I had a wonky pap last year which could be HPV, but the follow-up was clear, so I think I'm fine, but we should probably use condoms" which usually leads them to volunteer their own information (as well as, "of course; I always use condoms!"). And if not, then I follow up by saying "um, and you?"

This is much easier via email or whatever than it is in person.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 5:52 PM
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We just talked about it. 'Clean? Been tested? Whoopie!'


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 5:54 PM
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"As responsible adults, this is the point where we are supposed to discuss diseases. Let's begin with smallpox."


Posted by: cdm | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 5:57 PM
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9

Around the same time you discuss method(s) of birth control being used, right?


Posted by: washerdreyer | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 5:59 PM
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Just start off by explaining that the "germ theory of disease" is nothing but a theory. They'll get the idea.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 6:00 PM
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Also, should this come up before or after I tell them I'm married? What about before or after saying I'm actually a man?


Posted by: gonerill | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 6:00 PM
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11 - I think all you need to do is tell them your pseud.


Posted by: Becks | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 6:02 PM
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Just start off by explaining that the "germ theory of disease" is nothing but a theory.

Yeah, but then you get into the whole realm of whose miasmas are more malarious. It's bad enough that we have to start worrying about cholera and dysentery, what with all the ATM nowadays.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 6:03 PM
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When one first has sex with a new partner, condoms are pretty much a given, right? If for no other reason than to demonstrate one's acceptance of, well, reality.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 6:04 PM
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The sperm theory of impregnation is just a theory, JM.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 6:06 PM
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1 - That's my value system, too, and I'd also like to think that but, given that it seems I've read a few articles in the last month or so (three makes a trend!) about people not disclosing without being asked, I have to wonder.

9 - I don't think I've ever had a discussion about the form of birth control that will be used. (Agreeing with JM on preview that condoms are a given with someone new.)

And you can see why I'm asking for verbal advice when I can't even come up with a good retort to 5. Damn you words!


Posted by: Becks | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 6:10 PM
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14: You'd hope so.


Posted by: soubzriquet | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 6:11 PM
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18

Wait, have you all been tested for STDs?


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 6:16 PM
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I had to get tested for a range of STDs in order to get my visa to come to the US. I also had to prove I didn't have TB.


Posted by: dagger aleph | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 6:16 PM
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I haven't been very good in the past at initiating these kinds of conversations, but being up to date with my own tests helps me be a little more confident and self-righteous about it.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 6:16 PM
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18 - Women are more likely to be up to date on their tests than men, as we have to go in once a year for a pap smear and stuff. They usually just run a general battery of STD tests while they're at it.


Posted by: Becks | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 6:17 PM
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18.--Dude, ogged, are you implying you haven't?


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 6:18 PM
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22-It would be a great dishonor to Ogged's clan if he were to admit his unchastity by submitting to these so-called "public health measures".


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 6:20 PM
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I got peer-pressured into having my first AIDS test at about 19, after I'd slept with two people (one of them a virgin), having always using condoms. We went to a sort of scary, anonymous Red Cross clinic, where the nurses asked about IV use but took blood without gloves, and then we had to wait two full days and go back with our anonymous numbers to get the results, by which time I had of course convinced myself that I carried the virus. Good times. It broke the ice for me, though.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 6:23 PM
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18: As part of the yearly pap smear.
19: The boy (I need a pseud for him) just scheduled his visa medical. Oh, is he not going to be a happy camper.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 6:30 PM
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11: After the marriage part; if that scares them off, then there's no point in having the "have you been tested?" talk.

16: You know, come to think of it, I've only talked about birth control in the context of "so let's not use condoms." It's kind of amazing to realize that men don't make a point of bringing it up. What's with that, guys? Are y'all really so trusting?

24: I made sort of a point of our both getting tested before we got married, even though I'd always used condoms and Mr. B. was a virgin; likewise, of being tested when I was pregnant, although I hadn't slept with anyone other than Mr. B. since we'd gotten married. You really never know, and people *do* sometimes fib about whether or not they've had sex with someone other than you. It's stupid not to get a blood draw if you're sexually active. I mean, if a doc accidentally pricks herself with a needle while taking your blood, she's going to get tested no matter *what* you say about your sexual history. (And re. 21, if you're married, docs often *won't* automatically do the full STD workup with your pap--you have to specifically ask for it. Which imho is stupid of the docs, but there you go.)


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 6:31 PM
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Cala - are you coming to the DC gathering? While your location is secret, I think you're in a reasonable radius, right?


Posted by: Becks | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 6:31 PM
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19 Yes, the US imports large quantities of hott, clean babes every year.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 6:33 PM
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Dude, ogged, are you implying you haven't?

I've been tested for HIV a few times (immigration, surgery, etc.) and vaccinated for hep a and b. I really don't recall being tested for anything else, although I'd be amazed if I hadn't been, as part of the immigration/surgery battery.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 6:39 PM
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Unfortunately not, Becks. Not planning on attending the Eastern this year, and the boy is visiting in late December, and we have a lot to... catch up on. Anyone going to be in SF for the Pacific meeting in April?


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 6:39 PM
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29 - as part of the immigration... battery

What? When you were four? I'd be impressed if you had an STD at that age.

30 - Bummer!


Posted by: Becks | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 6:41 PM
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29: Unfortunately, the US also imports lots of "hott" foreign dudes, God knows why.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 6:42 PM
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31 - I think I meant the stress on that to be "impressed" but I don't feel like editing that comment again.


Posted by: Becks | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 6:43 PM
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At age four, definitely MMR and tetanus and TB. Hep B, polio, and leprosy, maybe. These days they also test for chicken pox immunity.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 6:43 PM
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Cala, are you guys going the "fiance visa" route?


Posted by: dagger aleph | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 6:46 PM
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Leprosy? Seriously?


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 6:46 PM
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What? When you were four?

No, when I became a citizen, so around 18, I think. That covers the first girlfriend (who was a virgin anyway). Hope ex and exbeforelast were clean!


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 6:47 PM
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35: Unfortunately. The whole process isn't hard, it's just a damn pain in the ass. Prove we have a real relationship? Make sure he's had his shots? He's from Canada, ffs, he has better health care than I do.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 6:48 PM
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Sweetie and I had tests after a few weeks of monogamy and then switched from condoms to diaphragm. (Or I did anyway -- I can't remember the exact time frame of her test -- for some reason I am thinking she had gotten a test after ending her previous relationship and hadn't had sex in the interim. Not sure, it was... 18 years ago? I think).

But: I did a bad, bad thing about 3 years in to our relationship. Viz., I had a one night stand with a woman of my acquaintance, during which stand we engaged in unsafe sex practices; and I did not tell sweetie about it. Well I did, but not until several weeks of anguish and guilt had transpired. She was of course, justifiably, angry. My penance was not having sex for the time you have to wait before taking the test -- can't remember, this is like a month or something? -- and then to be retested. Happily, it came back negative, and we were able to move on. I asked her to marry me not long after that, and she (obvs) accepted.


Posted by: Clownæsthesiologist | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 6:50 PM
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38: Are you going to put your "proof we have a real relationship" clip on Youtube?


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 6:50 PM
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38: Yeah, it is a pain in the ass. A lot of waiting for police reports and whatnot. And going to Montreal.


Posted by: dagger aleph | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 6:51 PM
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36: Depends on the country of origin and the person's age. 1975 is the cutoff for a lot of diseases.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 6:52 PM
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40: Somebody should totally do that.


Posted by: dagger aleph | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 6:54 PM
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40: EVERYONE asks that.
41: Vancouver, in our case. And yes, the background checks, the sixty pages of paper work, the financial support and everyone going 'but, but... Canada? Is it really another country? Really?'

On the other hand, I've learned a lot about immigration. Thinking I should head to law school so I can volunteer with some organization and knock some heads at the Department of State.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 6:54 PM
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45

when the doctor shoved a q-tip up my urethra.

I could happily go to my grave without ever experiencing this.


Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 6:55 PM
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46

It's weird how many people seem to think Canadians are exempt from the immigration laws that apply to everyone else.


Posted by: dagger aleph | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 6:56 PM
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So my roommate has been trying to convince me that the whole q-tip-up-the-wee-hole thing is not at all common. Have I been hoodwinked? Or have other guys experienced this? Have any other guys had any STD tests (not counting ogged and ClownÆ, who have already fessed up)?


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 6:57 PM
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Lots of people I know have brought spouses over: it's a horrible, consuming, frustrating process for every single one of them.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 6:57 PM
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Anyone who's filled out the forms to give blood won't be surprised by the association of certain countries with disease risks. I knew someone who filled out "no" on all the forms and was about to hand it in when he realized that he would be rejected for having had sex with someone who was born in Angola.

Yes, she moved here at the age of 2. Yes, he gave blood anyway. Since they make you fill out a new form every time, they clearly don't have a database of high-risk people, so they must not care that much about marginal cases - that was his reasoning.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 6:58 PM
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I have a friend born in Canada but adopted by an American couple which neglected to get her citizenship. She's close to fifty now, and theoretically could be deported to her Winnipeg homeland to live with her fellow Ukrainians. She has tracked her rare birthname and believes that he birthmother is now a PhD.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 7:00 PM
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Is she a Dukhobor?


Posted by: dagger aleph | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 7:01 PM
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Anyone going to be in SF for the Pacific meeting in April?

I will be.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 7:03 PM
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I've always thought it was odd that some guys were squeamish about having objects inserted into their urethras.

I mean, yeah, it's an experience I avoid and all, but it doesn't give me the willies () to contemplate it, as it does for some.

Now, if we were talking about putting testes in a vise, or poking things in eyes, I could see why there would be the flinch'n'winge reaction elicited. I flinch'n'winge at contemplating those things, as well as any damage to knees (I can't watch horse-races because I wince so much when they fall--all those stick-thin knees!)

But your urethra? I mean, on the whole it's a fairly non-sensitive part of your body, esp. in the non-aroused state.

And, yeah, I did have a large object shoved up there once some years ago. A bladder-scope or whatever, to inspect the upstream plumbing. You'll get there, guys, if you live long enough. It was uncomfortable, despite the anaesthetics. But not really cringe-inducing, at least not for me.


Posted by: kid bitzer | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 7:03 PM
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No, central Canada has tons of Ukranians. So does North Dakota, I think. You'd think they'd want to get away from flatness and freezing cold, but apparently they love it.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 7:04 PM
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In the old days kidney stones were treated using a kind of snake like a plumber's snake. A friend said that it was excruciatingly painful.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 7:05 PM
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It's true women (should, at least) have a natural yearly checkup to do this --- as bitchphd notes they don't always do a full sweep anyway. Depending on what you've been up to, once a year might not be remotely `current', of course. It's easier for men to let it slide a long time.

I'm disconcerted by the number of times I've had a conversation like that before and sometime after they've said: `you know, I've never had a good up-front conversation about that before'.


Posted by: soubzriquet | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 7:06 PM
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I have no idea what kind of urethra kid bitzer has, but I can assure you all that having a catheter shoved up mine absofuckinglutely sucked.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 7:08 PM
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47: it's very common. Hasn't your roommate ever had a complete battery?


Posted by: soubzriquet | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 7:08 PM
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as bitchphd notes they don't always do a full sweep anyway

If you really want them to do a full sweep tell your doctor you're thinking about an IUD. My wife had one for a while, and they test for everything beforehand, as apparently if you have any kind of VD, putting in the IUD can drag it up into your uterus.


Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 7:09 PM
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I can assure you all that having a catheter shoved up mine absofuckinglutely sucked.

When I had surgery, during my first day of recovery they were contemplating giving me a catheter. I told them they'd have to shoot me with a tranquilizer dart first, as anyone who came near me with one of those things was going to get punched in the face.


Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 7:12 PM
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53 -- kid bitzer, if it is not to personal, could you tell me what is your sex? Sometimes I read your comments and think you are male, sometimes female. For a while I was convinced you were FTM transexual. If the question is an imposition please disregard it.


Posted by: Clownæsthesiologist | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 7:13 PM
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Ack! too personal, I mean.


Posted by: Clownæsthesiologist | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 7:15 PM
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57--
so far as I know, I have the standard issue kind (sub-type male).

I'm not saying it isn't painful. It's just that I have been struck a couple of times by guys who reacted as though having anything inserted would be The Worst Thing Ever. And I can't quite see why (except the usual suspects of penetration anxiety etc.)

You know, broken collar-bones hurt, a lot, as do broken ribs. But people don't get all squeamish at the mere mention of them.

Nor am I saying you were getting squeamish either, ogged, since 'absofuckinglutely sucked' is consistent with non-squeamish pain-avoidance.

(and incidentally--you're doubtless aware that there's an entire linguistics literature on "fucking insertion", i.e. the phonological analysis of why you can put "fucking" into some places in a word and not others? "absofuckinglutely" is fine: "abfuckingsolutely" would get hash-marks.


Posted by: kid bitzer | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 7:17 PM
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To personal, or not to personal? That, indeed, is the question.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 7:17 PM
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61: sex-ist.


Posted by: soubzriquet | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 7:17 PM
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61, 62--

there's a couple of guys who write my lines. Some are male, some are female. For a while, one of my writers was an FTM transsexual.

So I'd say your ear is pretty good.


Posted by: kid bitzer | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 7:18 PM
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and could someone please close the last parenthesis in my 63?


Posted by: kid bitzer | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 7:19 PM
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Obviously I haven't had to bring a partner to the States, so I'm sure it's worse, but fwiw moving from the US to Canada is a big pain in the ass too. When you guys come to the States, do you at least get to keep your credit histories? We had to start all over again, which made things like getting a mortgage hard, and getting a credit card so I could travel for work literally impossible.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 7:21 PM
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broken collar-bones hurt, a lot, as do broken ribs. But people don't get all squeamish at the mere mention of them.

Different standards for The Precious.


Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 7:23 PM
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66 -- seriously? You are a committee of commenters?


Posted by: Clownæsthesiologist | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 7:23 PM
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guys who reacted as though having anything inserted would be The Worst Thing Ever. And I can't quite see why

Well, it is possible to feel like your body is being violated, and it's not so much the pain (it does hurt some) as the feeling that your cock is being pulled inside out. That doesn't make you squirm?


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 7:25 PM
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Hasn't your roommate ever had a complete battery?

I don't know; I'd have to ask her. Do they shove stuff up ladies' urethræ, too?


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 7:26 PM
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72: this may be regional too, there are different tests for the same STD's. There are also different symptomatic/asymptomatic tests for some of them.


Posted by: soubzriquet | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 7:29 PM
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68: No, that sucks in both directions. Drivers licenses seem to be state by state and province by province.


Posted by: soubzriquet | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 7:30 PM
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67: )

now the parser wont choke on the sexpr.


Posted by: soubzriquet | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 7:31 PM
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as the feeling that your cock is being pulled inside out

Jesus Christ. I squirmed just reading that.


Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 7:32 PM
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68: Ugh, really? One of the academic jobs I've applied for is in Canada, and while I'd love to get it, the prospect of immigration mit spouse is daunting.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 7:33 PM
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I had the swab up the urethra thing. It wasn't the worst thing ever, but I wouldn't do it for fun. Ogged's description in 71 isn't bad.

As for protection, I actually prefer a condom, but from talking to my friends I get the sense that that is a bit unusual. I have a friend who tends to wilt with one on, which just sounds awful if you're in the one night stand business, which he is. (Though after he got properly fitted things improved a bit.)


Posted by: Chris | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 7:34 PM
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There's a thing eye doctors sometimes do, particularly if you wear contacts, to check on the state of the inside of your eyelid, that's basically flipping the lid inside out. It doesn't hurt at all and is no big deal, really, but is just (for me, at least) horribly unnatural and wrong. I would think urethrae would be even more vulnerable to such feelings of BLARG WRONGNESS.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 7:36 PM
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77: as far as the credit history thing goes, it seems to be variable. I ended up with no credit history after a move, and many places refused to check with cross border agencies (they exist, apparantly). However, I did eventually find a bank willing to give me a five grand limit on a credit card, and bought a car with dealer financing that was perfectly happy to check with their cross-border counterparts. I didn't try for a mortgage. I had to pay downpayments on utilities and things, but that wasn't very much money, and once I had the credit card everything else was easy. This was all in the other direction...


Posted by: soubzriquet | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 7:37 PM
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75--
that's philanthropic of you. (we're all grateful.)

70--of course; aren't the rest of you written by committee? How could one person have the time to spew out the amount of verbiage that appears over some of the handles here? And who could live a life doing it all?

The fact is, we got the idea from Al at Matt's place, who is written by RNC workers on 3-hour shifts. There aren't enough of us to break "kid bitzer" into shifts that small, and it's more informal, just a few of us pitching in at various times. It does mean there are some gaps and overlaps in the persona, though--the alleged life chronology winds up not making much sense, and the academic expertise and ignorance wind up being all over the map.

Still--if we offend, it is with our good will.
that you should think we come not to offend.


Posted by: kid bitzer | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 7:40 PM
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after he got properly fitted

Condoms are more like bras than I'd imagined.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 7:40 PM
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now the parser wont choke on the sexpr.

I love it when you LISP at me, soubz.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 7:41 PM
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82: Seriously, he's a man of girth. He said it was just such a relief to wear a properly sized one.


Posted by: Chris | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 7:43 PM
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85

Go to a clinic and get tested together. Great first date!


Posted by: | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 7:43 PM
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79--
yes, totally agree that flipping the eye-lid out is squeam-inducing.

At Ellis Island it used to be S.O.P. for all immigrants (they were examining for trachoma), and there is an exhibition of the button-hooks used for this purpose.

Now *that* makes me squirm. In a way that talk of having my cock pulled inside out just doesn't do it.

Still, this is obviously an area in which different strokes....


Posted by: kid bitzer | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 7:44 PM
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No bitzer, you're just gay, and not in the good, buttsex way either.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 7:45 PM
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Ok, but who sized him up? Is that something you consult your doctor for? And then does he have to order from special extra-girthy online condom retailers?


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 7:46 PM
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83: just wait till we need compiler macros


Posted by: soubzriquet | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 7:46 PM
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85 -- trouble with that is (at least when I took the test) the test had to be at least like 2 months after your most recent possible point of being infected. So it would only work for a first date if neither of you had had any possibility of exposure for the past however long it is.


Posted by: Clownæsthesiologist | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 7:47 PM
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I find it hard to believe that either A) he was unaware that there were condoms in the world that would be larger and more comfortable, or B) he doesn't fit into the "Magnum XL" which are at every drugstore. But oh well.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 7:48 PM
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88: Um, I think he got some sizing kit and then ordered them on line. I didn't ask any follow up questions about the process because I'm still working through my Japanese condom sampler kit.


Posted by: Chris | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 7:50 PM
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90: the test still works, it just doesn't tell you anything about that (those) encounter.

test early! test often!


Posted by: soubzriquet | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 7:50 PM
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right, buttsex good, gay bad--I'll make note of that.

Look, if you talk to most MD's they'll tell you that even after cadaver class, even after years of practice, there are some parts of the body they can be completely clinical about, and some they cannot. I mean, eyes are an obvious one. But some people get freaked about injuries to the hand. Hands mean a lot to some people--not just in an "I need it to type" way, but as a symbol of personality, as an expression of character, as one of the first parts of another person's body that you notice.


Posted by: kid bitzer | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 7:50 PM
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These days there are alternatives to the q-tip in the pee pee test. I think most things can be tested with urine and blood obtained in less heinous ways.

Question, did those of you who immigrated here really have to have STD tests to enter the country? If you test positive for HIV you can't enter? For other things?

I'd also like to note that condoms are not a shield of protection against all disease. They are a good preventative measure, but they are not perfect!

And on a final note, the discussion brings to mind a related question. If you've seen someone a few times, haven't had sex yet but are moving in that direction, really like them, have the STD chat and discover that the person in fact *does* have an incurable STD...do you call it off or what?


Posted by: Stroll | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 7:51 PM
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91--
or C) his magnificent girthiness did not burst the puny condomettes asunder! Their latex elasticity unable to contain his monumental girth!

I'd say he's not as big as he claims.


Posted by: kid bitzer | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 7:52 PM
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P.S., they're calling them "STI's" these days.


Posted by: Stroll | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 7:52 PM
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Hands are very important.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 7:53 PM
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97: that is *definitely* regional


Posted by: soubzriquet | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 7:53 PM
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does* have an incurable STD

No, I wouldn't call off a budding relationship just for the sake of herpes.


Posted by: Clownæsthesiologist | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 7:54 PM
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98--
how important, ben?

do others here agree with ben?

could we get a show of hands?


Posted by: kid bitzer | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 7:54 PM
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96: I once saw someone pull one over their head, unbroken. Just a data point.


Posted by: | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 7:54 PM
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102: I had a friend in high school who used to do that.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 7:55 PM
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102
'unbroken' is one of the better dangling modifiers I've ever seen.


Posted by: kid bitzer | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 7:55 PM
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96. No really! I saw it once! It was truly a thing of beauty!

You know, I think it's better if I just go back to lurking.


Posted by: Chris | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 7:55 PM
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pull one over their head

Yeah, duh! That's what condoms are for, silly.


Posted by: Clownæsthesiologist | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 7:56 PM
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95: I've crossed borders w/o a test. Not sure what the exact constraints are.


Posted by: soubzriquet | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 7:56 PM
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106
no, silly, that's what *the wool* is for.

oh. that's over the eyes. sorry.


Posted by: kid bitzer | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 7:57 PM
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If you test positive for HIV you can't enter?

You know, I don't even remember if this was stated explicitly. But if they're not going to bar you from entering, why ask you to take it?


Posted by: dagger aleph | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 7:58 PM
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and come to think of it, wool condoms might have a variety of drawbacks, so far as e.g. pregnancy prevention, disease prevention, etc.

Still--think of the possibilities for color and texture. mohair. mmm. or harris tweed. icckk.

"Say, what's that you're knitting, Grandma?"


Posted by: kid bitzer | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 7:59 PM
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Girl, Interrupted; Head, Unbroken.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 7:59 PM
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The department of whatever it's called now says,

This ground of inadmissibility covers individuals who are found to have a communicable disease of public health significance, including, ". . . infection with the etiologic agent for acquired immune deficiency syndrome." The HHS regulations that define a communicable disease of public health significance are found at 42 CFR ยง 34.2(b). The following eight conditions are listed: chancroid; gonorrhea; granuloma inguinale; acquired immune deficiency syndrome (HIV/AIDS); Hansen's disease (infectious leprosy); lymphogranuloma venereum; infectious state syphilis; and infectious tuberculosis


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 8:01 PM
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Mohair is not actually wool.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 8:02 PM
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do you call it off or what?

I'd certainly proceed, if I were to proceed, with real caution. To be honest, I think I'd also make my decision based on the STD.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 8:02 PM
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113--
damn. always read the fine print on the condom package.


Posted by: kid bitzer | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 8:03 PM
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109 -- they give you a test for syphilis (in NY anyways) before giving you a marriage license, but do not withhold the license if the test is positive. So it could be something like that. I don't really know anything about epidemiology.


Posted by: Clownæsthesiologist | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 8:04 PM
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104: we aim to please


Posted by: soubzriquet | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 8:05 PM
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You don't have to get an HIV test for a NY marriage liscence? Syphilis can be cured...I'd assume if you tested positive they'd point you towards medication.


Posted by: Stroll | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 8:05 PM
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118 -- the information in 116 is going on 14 years out of date. Maybe there is an HIV test.


Posted by: Clownæsthesiologist | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 8:07 PM
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I had no idea what a chancroid was, so I looked up the definition and some pictures. Oh yuck.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 8:09 PM
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"16: You know, come to think of it, I've only talked about birth control in the context of "so let's not use condoms." It's kind of amazing to realize that men don't make a point of bringing it up. What's with that, guys? Are y'all really so trusting?"

No, but we've learned that talking about sex is a very good way to head off the possiblility of having it: it means you have a PLAN. Doubly so if you're going to make the point that you hate babies and aren't responsible enough to have one now, and you're very pro-abortion.


On the original point, i usually don't bother asking. Herpes is the only one i'd be worried about, and most people who are positive don't know it.


Posted by: yoyo | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 8:09 PM
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it means you have a PLAN

You need to spend more time at Megan's parties.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 8:12 PM
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Herpes is the only one i'd be worried about

Huh? Is it not the least worrisome of STD's?


Posted by: Clownæsthesiologist | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 8:13 PM
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123 - Definately not. Herpes is forever. There are others you can get rid of pretty easily.


Posted by: Stroll | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 8:14 PM
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I know it's just that I saw too many of those nineteenth-century photos of tertiary syphillitic symptoms, but, man, that one freaks me the fuck out.

I probably shouldn't look at any medical photography.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 8:16 PM
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Medical libraries have a little pocket picture book of STDs. I've suggested giving it to every HS student to turn them off sex (and relationships!) forever. Some of the diseases are extremely vivid.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 8:18 PM
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Herpes is forever

Granted. But don't most people have it and not really notice? That makes it seem to me like something that is not worrisome. (Full disclosure: I have herpes.)


Posted by: Clownæsthesiologist | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 8:18 PM
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Yes, when herpes migrates to your brain, you don't necessarily notice. Everyone else does, though.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 8:21 PM
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Gotcha. What I mean is, it's no big deal, but the good thing about some much worse things (like syphilis, which can kill you) is that you can get rid of them altogether.


Posted by: Stroll | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 8:21 PM
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Yeah, sometimes i wish i just had it so i could quit worrying and slut it up with less trepidation.


Posted by: yoyo | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 8:24 PM
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77: If you get the job, email me. It could have been a lot less of an ass-pain if I'd known some things before hand. For one thing, insist that the university PAY FOR YOUR FUCKING PERMANENT RESIDENCY APPLICATION. Ahem.

95: I think it would depend on the disease and the partner. I've knowingly had sex with someone who had an STD; after doing my research, I decided the risk was negligible. If I really liked someone, even the biggies (herpes, HIV) would be things I might be willing to deal with depending on things like how under control the thing is, how cautious the partner is, what my doc says, etc.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 8:24 PM
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Actually, some girl deciding to keep a pregnancy and wanting child support from me is really my biggest fear. children: STIs.


Posted by: yoyo | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 8:25 PM
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128 -- the term for this is "posting Nietzsche-style".


Posted by: Clownæsthesiologist | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 8:25 PM
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Is it not the least worrisome of STD's?

I think that's chlamydia.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 8:27 PM
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127: Depends on the strain.

And for the record, I don't have herpes, not even the odd cold sore. Go figure.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 8:27 PM
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131: Awesome, thank you. Will do.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 8:27 PM
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Nietszche gets a bum rap. St. Thomas Aquinas went nuts too, you know.So did Goedel. Mirowski says that lots of logicians went nuts, but I don't have the list ready to hand.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 8:28 PM
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I am something of a hypochondriac and now will be obsessed with the symptoms brain-herpes for the next few weeks, at least.


Posted by: stroll | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 8:29 PM
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aquinas and goedel also shared the belief that they had proofs for the existence of god.

not that this has anything to do w/ going nuts, natch.

("proofs, I tell you. Proofs!")


Posted by: kid bitzer | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 8:30 PM
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Just remember, stroll: the force is with you.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 8:30 PM
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Mohair, wool---slightly more disturbing than linen or silk, but significantly less so than tortoiseshell (!) or Jenny's washed second-hand ones. Aieeee.


Posted by: Saheli | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 8:31 PM
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132 -- My Gay Indian (Ex-)Roommate and I threw a party and I was talking to one of the guests he'd invited and found out that he accidentally knocked up some girl he met in a club or something because they had unprotected sex. She had the kid and he had to start paying her some ungodly sum in child support. He finally saved up enough money to go on a vacation and, when in Hawaii, met some girl who said she was on the Pill, had sex with her without using a condom, and later found out (according to her story) that she had also been on antibiotics (which make the Pill ineffective) and got pregnant, too. She also decided to have the kid so now his paycheck was getting docked for two kids in two different states and he was taking home like 40% of his paycheck. Stupid stupid boy.


Posted by: Becks | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 8:32 PM
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The first sign is omitting prepositions.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 8:32 PM
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This thread is reminding me that I have not had any sores in a long time, like 2 years or something -- before that it seemed like I would always get them at intervals of 6 months or something. A few years ago my doctor prescribed a medicine which I took every time I had sores thereafter -- it would always make them go away very quickly -- I have no idea whether that medicine had anything to do with them not flaring up in 2 years though. Probably not.


Posted by: Clownæsthesiologist | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 8:33 PM
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Oh my God, it's started.

Every time I post here I'm read to filth on my spelling and grammar, which is fine because both are really bad, but is perhaps a sign that unfogged.com transmits brain-herpes.


Posted by: stroll | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 8:33 PM
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143
the first sign brain herpes, you mean?


Posted by: kid bitzer | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 8:34 PM
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paying her some ungodly sum in child support

I can't wait until the day when we stop thinking of child support as something men pay to women, rather than something they pay to their kids.

Okay, sorry about that. Hey, look over there! Cock!


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 8:35 PM
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146: Just so, just so.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 8:36 PM
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147 - Ack -- oh god, the last thing I want to do is derail this sex thread into talk about child support. Dear lord. I'll redact that motherfucker if I have to.

Lesson is: Don't be like The Gay Indian Roommate's Friend and trust someone you have a one-night stand with to be on the Pill! That's all, people!


Posted by: Becks | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 8:37 PM
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Agreed! Don't be stupid! Boys are responsible for birth control, too!

Really, I'm sorry about the ack/humorless thing, Becks.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 8:38 PM
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147
yeah, I can't wait until there's a universal registry of dna, so that paternity is never even something to be disputed.

I'm for equal opportunity fear of pregnancy. Back when I was in h.s., it was still the situation where Cindy got pregnant and everybody though it might be Paul, but maybe it was Ronnie, and so Cindy wound up raising it alone. Bullshit.


Posted by: kid bitzer | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 8:38 PM
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(And I was threatening to redact my original comment, not yours, BTW.)


Posted by: Becks | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 8:39 PM
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oh, but the thing about antibiotics neutralizing the pill? That is too, too true, totally true. The only time I've gotten an abortion, the pregnancy happened just that way.


Posted by: kid bitzer | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 8:40 PM
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Hey! No fair switching committee members inthread!


Posted by: Clownæsthesiologist | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 8:42 PM
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154--
yeah, and how many of you fit into that tiny VW, anyhow?


Posted by: kid bitzer | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 8:43 PM
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Shh, that's a trade secret!


Posted by: Clownæsthesiologist | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 8:44 PM
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Stanley, I don't think the q-tip torture is all that common, but I had it once, and just reading reference to it makes me beg the Lord above for a personal hoohole into which I can dump that dreadful memory.


Posted by: Armsmasher | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 8:44 PM
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153: Absolutely. Antibiotics + the pill = BAD.

152: I know, no worries. But you can if you want.

151: When I was in (Catholic) high school, the girl that got pregnant and stayed pregnant was kicked out. Her boyfriend wasn't, nor were all the girls that got pregnant and had abortions. If I hadn't already been a feminazi, that would sure have turned me into one.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 8:46 PM
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Stupid stupid boy.

You know, Becks, sometimes you really are quite charming. I can't tell you why the above so pleased me, but it really did.


Posted by: SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 8:47 PM
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And I'm pleased you found your capitals again, Tim.


Posted by: Becks | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 8:47 PM
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(160 was not me being a little bitch, either. I really am. It just looks right that way.)


Posted by: Becks | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 8:48 PM
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catholic school can really warp a person.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 8:48 PM
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actually, I read "stupid stupid boy" as channeling the Indian boy's mother.
No longer a suitable boy. Now a stupid stupid boy.


Posted by: kid bitzer | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 8:50 PM
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If you test positive for HIV you can't enter? For other things?

ogged copied and pasted it but generally, they're concerned with a communicable public health problem. It does get lots of people worried that they'll be inadmissible for having suffered depression or cancer though.

I don't think there could be equal opportunity fear of pregnancy unless men could get pregnant. But it is sort of interesting how the ineffectual STD teaching at my high school still means that basically the only reason anyone would ever use a condom is to prevent a pregnancy.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 8:50 PM
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162--
jesus, JE, you read 158 and say that it's the *person* who came out warped? I'd say the person came out fairly straight, and it was the *school* that was way warped.


Posted by: kid bitzer | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 8:51 PM
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Is there some STD that can only be tested for via the urethra-violating method? I thought there was a slightly more expensive method that was more comfortable. The only person I know personally who's gone through that used to get tested every month or so down at the anonymous clinic in Grad School City. The two things I remember from the anecdotes: the urethra swab, and, because it was sort of an "urban" area, the clinicians using the vernacular: "did he put his 'cock' in your 'asshole'?"

I'm pretty sure I told this story here before.


Posted by: FL | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 8:51 PM
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165 -- I think 162 was a subtle dig at Bitch, Ph. D.


Posted by: Clownæsthesiologist | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 8:52 PM
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B is not warped?

I never would have thought of that way. That's an intriguing idea.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 8:53 PM
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166 - From what I've heard, guys can go for a urine test and get the results in a few days or the urethra method and find out pretty instantly. Guess it boils down to which is more painful to you -- the Q-tip or the wait.


Posted by: Becks | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 8:54 PM
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There are alternatives to the q-tip method. I think that the q-tip would be rare nowadays even at da clinic. I had the q-tip inserted in college and it wasn't that bad...the *thought* of it is horrible though.


Posted by: Stroll | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 8:54 PM
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169--
man, just reading about that wait makes me squirm and feel violated.

167--thanks, we got it. but that doesn't mean JE should go unchallenged. (plus, I have my own reasons for wanting to get digs in at catholic schools, though mine had no opportunities for getting pregnant).


Posted by: kid bitzer | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 8:56 PM
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Right now I'm imagining the 16-year-old B coming out of St. Mary's HS (Portland Oregon) wearing her cute schoolgirl uniform.

"Why yes, little gitl, I do have a cigarette. Wanna go on a ride in my Cadillac convertible?"


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 8:58 PM
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"girl"


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 8:58 PM
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"Hey, is that a Wacoal bra you're wearing?"


Posted by: FL | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 9:01 PM
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Going back a bit, to 48: Lots of people I know have brought spouses over: it's a horrible, consuming, frustrating process for every single one of them.

I know someone who deliberately skipped the K (fiancee) visa route for just that reason. He married his wife in her country (not a legal US marriage, just to satisfy her family), brought her here on a tourist visa, and then they got married again here. Still a mess of paperwork, but somewhat less complicated.

73: There are also different symptomatic/asymptomatic tests for some [STDs].

I had a jarring conversation with a g.p. who specializes in adolescent medicine, who told me she always feels guilty giving her teen clients a clean bill of health because the truth is there are so many things you can't test for or it's impractical/too expensive to test for when you are asymptomatic. Aiiiiieee.

I agree with the 872 people who said that other tests are often done in conjunction with Pap smears (also good news on the health insurance front: It's a well-woman checkup! It might actually be covered!)

Re: STD/STI: I don't think it's regional, I think it's generational. Under 25 seem to use STI a lot more, and most of the college safer-sex materials I run across seem to use it. I keep wanting to corral a public health educator and say "Was it deliberate? Is this some best practices thing where you refer to things as 'infections' because that sounds less scary and more like something that can be treated, rather than A Disease you'll have forevermore?"

Which gets, finally, to the talking/not talking question: A few times I've been disturbed to hear expressed, in casual conversation, the old canard that you can tell by looking who is at risk. (This by way of justification about why the person had NOT had The Conversation with a new beau.) It makes me feel like I live on a different planet.


Posted by: Witt | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 9:02 PM
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175--
yeah, you cannot tell by looking, but sometimes you can tell by listening.
If you ever hear someone say 'you can tell by looking', then you know that person is a risk.

(if not for brain herpes, then for infectious stupid).


Posted by: kid bitzer | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 9:05 PM
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the old canard that you can tell by looking who is at risk.

There are people who say this? How on earth do they discern someone's at-risk-ness?


Posted by: dagger aleph | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 9:05 PM
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Some people are totally irrational about medicine. I have a relative with uncontrolled diabetes who refuses to get treatment. He's relatively asymptomatic and takes very good care of himself in most respects. I suspect that anti-drug propaganda has actually made him unwilling to use insulin daily.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 9:07 PM
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Well, if someone has an open sore or a cluster of warts on their penis or vagina, you can tell. Of course the fact (which has already been stated) is that more often than not there are no symptoms.


Posted by: Stroll | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 9:08 PM
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I keep wanting to corral a public health educator and say "Was it deliberate? Is this some best practices thing where you refer to things as 'infections' because that sounds less scary and more like something that can be treated, rather than A Disease you'll have forevermore?"

If you asked them, they would respond by saying "Yes", and continue by saying that the word "disease" is imprecise, while the word "infection" is more accurate for describing the transfer of microorganisms which may or may not cause what some people would call an actual disease. It also reminds people that while they may be asymptomatic (that is, no "disease"), they may still have an infection and need to be tested.

http://www.brown.edu/Student_Services/Health_Services/Health_Education/sexual_health/sti/sti_home.htm

It's a generational thing basically because a few years ago all the educational materials started saying "STI" instead of "STD". It never would have changed otherwise. Heck, I'm surprised that kids are actually saying "STI". I've never heard that come from a person's mouth during actual conversation, only in seminars and in brochures.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 9:09 PM
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huh? a lot of diseases are most noticable in that there are various skin lesions/sores/warts etc.


Posted by: yoyo | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 9:10 PM
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lesions/sores/absence prepositions etc.


Posted by: kid bitzer | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 9:12 PM
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Often open sores on the penis are totally benign or even beneficial, but bitches won't listen to you when you tell them that.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 9:13 PM
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Word.


Posted by: stroll | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 9:15 PM
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"even beneficial" in that exciting textured way?
maybe if you tell them the open sores are just from the chafing wool they'll believe you. ("darn that seam!")


Posted by: kid bitzer | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 9:15 PM
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Emerson, you're on fire tonight, and not just when you urinate.


Posted by: FL | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 9:15 PM
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It's a generational thing basically because a few years ago all the educational materials started saying "STI" instead of "STD".

STI is a manufacturer of high end 1911's. And naturally, they have a base model named the "Trojan".

http://www.stiguns.com/guns/Trojan5/Trojan5.html


Posted by: gswift | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 9:16 PM
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Plus, open sores, judiciously lanced, provide a natural lubricant, full of health-giving white blood cells.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 9:16 PM
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166: I think the doc said the cock-swab test was for Chlamydia and Gonorrhea, and I'm not sure if either can be tested for by other means. The only other time I got tested, it was at a public health clinic, where they do two(!) swabs in a row. I viewed the more recent single-swab test (at a swankier, private doctor's office) as a vast improvement, but now I feel hoodwinked that there might be less-intrusive methods.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 9:17 PM
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176 - And then there are people like me who couldn't tell by looking because they're completely blind without their glasses...


Posted by: Becks | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 9:18 PM
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Before I go to bed to dream of brain-herpes, I'd like to say (one more time) that I am absolutely certain that there are tests for chlamydia and gonorrhea that do not require a q-tip being inserted into the penis hole.


Posted by: stroll | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 9:20 PM
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How on earth do they discern someone's at-risk-ness?

Because people of the right sort, you know, don't have things like that.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 9:21 PM
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"...and not just when you urinate": the perfect addition to any compliment!


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 9:21 PM
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187--
man, that's weird. I'd never thought about an analogical resemblance between handguns and male genitals.

Do you think firearms manufacturers are aware of this?
(They must feel so *embarrassed*!)


Posted by: kid bitzer | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 9:23 PM
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there are tests for chlamydia and gonorrhea that do not require a q-tip being inserted into the penis hole

Oh, I believe you (and others). I'm just bitter.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 9:23 PM
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191--
"of", "for", "into"--looks like you're clean.


Posted by: kid bitzer | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 9:24 PM
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I've always suspected that at least part of the full-genital-waxing trend had to do with the "you can tell by looking" myth.

The part that doesn't have to do with prepubescent fantasy and pr0n, that is.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 9:24 PM
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How on earth do they discern someone's at-risk-ness?

Well, maybe they're really ugly, and it's impossible to believe that they've previously had sex. Like w-lfs-n. (Take that, young Lochinvar.)


Posted by: SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 9:25 PM
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Sometimes you have to clean a gun by sticking a Q-Tip up the barrel. Ick.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 9:25 PM
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Because people of the right sort, you know, don't have things like that.

So right, JM. You really are dating an Iranian.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 9:27 PM
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PCR-based techniques (looking for specific DNA sequences) for diagnosing bacterial infections are getting more and more accurate. There have been huge advances in PCR techniques in the past 10 years. From a couple papers I just looked at, it seems like just getting a urine sample and looking for gonorrhea or chlamydia DNA is as sensitive nowadays as taking a urethral swab. I guess it would be more likely to give you a false positive, though. But still not very likely.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 9:28 PM
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199--
makes me squirm just reading it.

and don't even get me started on muzzle-loading black powder muskets--makes my stomach churn, all those "ram rods" violating the barrel's chaste interior.


Posted by: kid bitzer | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 9:28 PM
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200: I think "things" referred to STDs, not penises.


Posted by: SomeCallMeTim | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 9:29 PM
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Now I'm reminded of something that I read somewhere, probably in a mid-20th-century novel, about guys with a theory that sleeping with nurses was an extra smart move, because they were presumably guaranteed to be hygenic and disease free.


Posted by: redfoxtailshrub | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 9:29 PM
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If you test positive for HIV you can't enter?

If you test positive for HIV, I ain't gonna enter, anyway.

Also. I've never met that Cindy person.


Posted by: Paul | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 9:29 PM
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You can tell by taste, but it's hard to learn the taste-test without catching the disease.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 9:30 PM
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There are people who say this? How on earth do they discern someone's at-risk-ness?

One (age 63) admitted when pressed that it was because it was accepted wisdom in his peer group as a young man that if you had an STD it was because you'd been with a prostitute. (Yes, that begs another question, which I did not ask.)

One (age 40) admitted when pressed that it was stupid but mostly a class/numbers thing for her (she was dating a middle-class guy who'd had two girlfriends in 10 years, and thus rationalized that he was low-risk).

It seems to be a cognitive disconnect between population-level truths (being poor, having multiple partners, and being a sex worker makes you higher-risk) and individual behavior (but you're not sleeping with a population, you're sleeping with one individual -- and their idiosyncratic, possibly risky, history).

180: There is at least one small liberal-arts college where the young'uns use the phrase completely nonchalantly.


Posted by: Witt | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 9:31 PM
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205--
oh sure. blame it on Ronnie.

206--my wife worked in a Planned Parenthood clinic for a few years, and she swears she could diagnose several STD's by smell. (I think chlamydia was one?). Folks just walk into the clinic room, and she'd start charting.


Posted by: kid bitzer | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 9:32 PM
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180: There is at least one small liberal-arts college where the young'uns use the phrase completely nonchalantly.

Excellent, the indoctrinations are being heeded. How about "safer sex", has it replaced "safe sex" yet?


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 9:32 PM
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175, 180: No, it's even more regional in the sense that I've run into different usage by health professionals in different places, recently. Here they still use STD, which surprised me when I moved. I thought STI had become standard, too (and think it's better terminology)


Posted by: soubzriquet | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 9:35 PM
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My Iranian has, however, taken the full battery of tests—on purpose.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 9:35 PM
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209: mixed bag on that one; I've heard both usages recently.

in 210 health professionals should be `at least some' health professionals


Posted by: soubzriquet | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 9:37 PM
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Not surprising, but when you have children through an egg-donor program, you get tested for HIV and a host of other STIs. Not that I was worried, exactly, but the results were a relief. If you donate the leftovers, you can also spread your seed prolifically without paying child support. I may have a dozen versions of Mini-Me out there expressing my incomparable genetic material.


Posted by: Jesus McQueen | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 9:37 PM
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Yes, that begs another question

O RLY?


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 9:37 PM
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197: what about the part that just feels better?


Posted by: soubzriquet | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 9:38 PM
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My Iranian has, however, taken the full battery of tests--on purpose.

Trying to act all assimilated.

I think I have my complete medical records around here, I should check.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 9:38 PM
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My Iranian has, however, taken the full battery of tests--on purpose.

This is your boyfriend?


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 9:39 PM
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209: In my experience, that gets used by AIDS educators.* Haven't heard it from anyone else.

*Not the college students who do a few hours as a volunteer thing; professionals whose idea of amusing decoration for an office party is a bunch of dental dams dangling from the ceiling, along with latex in its other incarnations.


Posted by: Witt | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 9:41 PM
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If you really were as neurotic as your blogging persona presents itself as being, ogged, you would already have checked a couple of times and harrassed your doctor for additional details.

Poser.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 9:42 PM
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214: Just giving you a straight line, apo.


Posted by: Witt | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 9:42 PM
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apostropher, that dude was Turkish.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 9:44 PM
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I confess to being entirely cavalier about this. But I've slept with so few people, and so long ago...


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 9:45 PM
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One notable thing about the medical required for the visa: at least in a couple of internet acquaintances' cases, the medical's been so thorough that it's caught cancer or a heart condition. (Which doesn't make you ineligible, exactly, but generally puts a crimp in your plans.)


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 9:45 PM
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Or so the mullahs would have you believe.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 9:45 PM
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224->221.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 9:46 PM
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224 to 222.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 9:46 PM
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Only Ogged would brag about how few women he's slept with.


Posted by: Becks | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 9:50 PM
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Cognitive dissonance: I just received a spam email that contained a link and the following text.

The man who tries to do something and fails is infinitely better than he who tries to do nothing and succeeds. Never be lucid, never state, if you would be regarded great. The greatest compliment that was ever paid me was when one asked what I thought, and attended to my answer.

The subject line: T*iopless LADYB*NOY Squcking Cvock & Arssfhucked 3some


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 9:53 PM
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224 to 227.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 9:54 PM
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So, wait, the TiVo was not reset? Alas, poor ogged.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 9:55 PM
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My story is a complicated story, Mormon friend. Someday, I will tell it.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 9:56 PM
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224->231

This is fun!


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 9:58 PM
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It really is an all-purpose rejoinder. Or so the mullahs would have you believe.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 9:59 PM
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My story is a complicated story, Mormon friend. Someday, I will tell it.

All I can hear is Eddie Izzard in Dress to Kill, on (not) losing his virginity.


Posted by: Witt | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 10:00 PM
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-- Did you know you were going 85 in a 55 mile per hour zone?
-- Or so the mullahs would have you believe.


Posted by: Becks | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 10:00 PM
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235: The best one for that is "I thought it was Celsius."


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 10:02 PM
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has there ever been a better stand-up performance than Eddie Izzard in Dress to Kill?


Posted by: kid bitzer | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 10:07 PM
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237: It's interesting that all of his other performances I have seen were vastly less funny than that one.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 10:10 PM
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Messr. Izzard is in the new Seinfeld movie.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 10:12 PM
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Seinfeld plays a bee?


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 10:14 PM
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The trailer.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 10:21 PM
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Hmph. Youtube's having some downtime. You can find a different one here.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 10:27 PM
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172, 174: It was, in fact, St. Mary's HS (not in Portland, though). And we didn't have uniforms, though we did have a dress code. Also, I had not yet discovered Wacoal bras, more's the pity.

Sorry, stepped out for a bit.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 10:31 PM
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I would not wish to make demands on the famed Lur modesty, ogged. When, in its proper time and fashion, your story is told, the world will indeed be richer.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 10:31 PM
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Or so the mullahs would have you believe.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 10:35 PM
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Well, those cute uniforms are an important part of the experience for me. No ride in my Cadillac for you, and no cigarette either.


Posted by: John Emerson | Link to this comment | 11-28-06 10:50 PM
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I think that people should be really careful and all that, but I was recently talking to an epidemiologist who works for teh Cl/inton foundation who said that there are a lot of common sense things you can do to reduce your risk.

If you're a heterosexual female, your risk is reduced if you don't have sex with men who have had gay sex. Also avoid people who use IV drugs or may have had sex with people who do.

You should still use protection, because you can never be completely sure.


Posted by: Bostoniangirl | Link to this comment | 11-29-06 10:26 AM
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Here's a related question: when two guys are dating, when is it okay to stop using condoms, assuming an assumption of monogamy. (Monandry?) That trust thing is tricky.

Also, I truly hope the waxed privates thing is a rapidly passing fad.


Posted by: cerebrocrat | Link to this comment | 11-29-06 11:55 AM
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It's "monogamy" no matter what gender the people are.

As for the non-syntax-related parts of your post, I of course have no idea.


Posted by: Cryptic Ned | Link to this comment | 11-29-06 11:57 AM
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That wasn't a syntax question.


Posted by: ben w-lfs-n | Link to this comment | 11-29-06 11:59 AM
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Bah! I missed this thread because I was away from the computer all night because I was HAVING SEX.

My method of asking seems to be, whenever, during a first date, a guy acts nervous (inevitable) and says, "So...," I say, "Oh, do you have herpes?" Then we have a laugh. Or if he says, "I was wondering...," I say, "Actually, I test negative for everything." Then we have a laugh.

I'm not sure how well this move would go over if his answer was, "Well, actually, yeah," but that hasn't happened within recent memory. The other thing about it is it breaks the tension about introducing the possibility of hot first-date sex. Yay!


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 11-29-06 5:08 PM
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How's the rash?


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 11-29-06 5:11 PM
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The rash seems, to me, to be better, in that it is manifesting itself as a few larger spots rather than an all-over angry red swelling. According to the guy, it is not better, but he's learning to accomodate regular intervals of pain into his life. I have passed along suggestions like anti-histamines, bacterial cultivation, and homeopathic medicine. Next time we go out, I'm just going to have some Benadryl ready.


Posted by: A White Bear | Link to this comment | 11-30-06 6:45 PM
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