I'll be needing a place to crash that evening. I promise to keep my hands to myself.
An eclectic web magazine IN UR CAPITAL.
Darn. I'm devasted at not being able to make it down. But I'm sure you'll all have fun without me.
People who need places to stay should probably match themselves up for hotel-room sharing here.
LB used to be vast, but no longer.
Note that 1 specifies only "hands".
I can only make promises about the things I control.
Apo, if we shack up, the posts detailing it could be legendary.
I'll bring my nipple, you bring your colon, and together we'll make beautiful music.
I sense there might be an afterparty...in my butt.
Ooh, ooh, ask Matt! He still has one couch left! We can all find barbecue!
Are lurkers welcome to the party? Can they bring a guest?
That's not the most flattering picture of Labs.
I can't believe there's a party that I'm going to be sad to miss.
9 - 11 -- Ah to be a cockroach on that floor!
9 - 11 -- Ah to be a cockroach on that floor!
There were an awful lot of floors between those two towers. Which one were you thinking of specifically?
(Uh -- due to an infelicity of comment numbers 16 appears to be referring to the calaity a few years back. It is not.)
There's plenty of time for you to change your plans and buy a plane ticket, Ogged. Just don't ask for a seatbelt extension.
'Pastra Phari is too quick for me.
14. The guest is my wife and, yes, I'd say she qualifies as hot.
hey folks - if you know for sure you are coming, could you send an email to the address listed? we'd just like an approximate head count so we know how many supplies to get...and if the party will reach throwing-people-off-roof levels.
I can't even handle that picture, people, it's so awesome. Truly inspired.
Does that picture mean Jonah Goldberg is coming to the party?
(And has anybody thought to invite Victor Davis Hanson?)
Will there be libertarians at the party? I've never met any real, live, adult libertarians.
oh my god. we have like 17 libertarians who live around the corner. they'll be there, for sure.
I'm holding out hope that Brad shows up.
I think Jim Henley lives in Silver Spring, just like me! I think some LDS folks live there too.
26 -- I would be disappointed if I came to the party and Jim Henley were not there. Since I can't come this won't be much of an issue. Off to sob in my beer...
Since I can't come
Try switching hands.
Wait, Henley's going to be there? Fuck, I'm impressed.
Why aren't you going, ogged?
Mormons? Like, practicing Mormons?
Hm.
36: I was referring to you, actually.
Why aren't you going, ogged?
My mom is visiting me, and we're visiting relatives here in California.
I updated the post to say that lurkers are welcome and ask for RSVPs.
Orson Scott Card is totally gonna crash. Wearing camo.
I, alas, am not man enough to ask my wife to watch our kids while I travel 400 miles to meet some strange people from the internets.
If I have to bring my laptop, I'm not coming.
Shit, I'd show up just to meet hte guy in the foto. He looks so content. Alas, I'll be in the third world... have breakfast at the Fla Ave Diner for me.
44: It was indeed nice of our guests to offer to make the hosts a splendid breakfast.
Do I have to RSVP? I think Smasher still has some of my comic books. I'm not a lawyer, but my understanding of the American legal system is that this fact gives me carte blanche to trespass whenever I want.
By the way, you're out of beer.
42: Don't ask her, just tell her. Of course, I'm only travelling 228 miles, so maybe that's the difference.
42: Dude, I'm leaving my pregnant wife behind. Nut up.
50: you're leaving Choppers pregnant wife behind?
This is going to be a seriously awesome party.
For this party, yes, I am leaving Chopper's pregnant wife's behind.
(Not to mention w-lfs-n's mom.)
52: sounds like it; Have some extra fun for me .... wish I could crash it.
I'm officially jealous now. Y'all are going to have a great time.
I'm thinking I'll get a motel room somewhere on the grounds that I'm no longer an impoverished grad student and someone else surely needs a couch more than I do. On same grounds, am more than willing to share motel room, splitting costs or not as anyone's conscience and/or pocketbook dictates.
48- The first draft of my comment said "tell" instead of "ask" but I thought that might make some people pissy. If I am not man enough to ask her, I am also not man enough to tell her.
58: I'll likely be doing the same.
B, all you had to do was ask me. /leer
I'm officially jealous now.
Why don't you go, 007?
Yeah, Tim. Tell that pregnant wife of yours what for.
I'm going to have lot of trouble not call you all by your handles rather than your names. Luckily for all of you, Chopper is a RL nickname for me, so I'll actually respond.
62: I'm already committed elsewhere. But, seriously, this party presents a rare opportunity for a good "and then I woke up in jail" story. I just can't decide if it will be Chopper, Apostropher, Ackerman, or--in a surprising turn--Becks.
64 demonstrates that Chopper has not been to any Unfogged meetups previously.
66 - It will be Ackerman. (if you're a bettin' man)
Hey, is there a chance that B, Apo, and I will end up sharing a hotel room and/or jail? Looks like Christmas is a little late this year.
68: Don't underestimate Chopper.
Megan should come! We're going to throw Ben w-lfs-n off the roof.
So it'll be me, Chopper, and Apo in a motel room. This oughta be interesting.
71: But will you be coaching w-lfs-n in the art of flirting? And aerobics?
I assume the formalities will be observed, and no alcohol will be drunk that has not first been sanctified by the Gayatollah.
71 - Sounds like you'll have a great time. Sadly, I'm hosting a party here (SomeCallMeTim's real plans), so I can't be in DC the previous night.
West Coast, you should come. We'll have homemade fireworks. What could go wrong?
Also, B has a moral obligation to engage in a threesome and then blog dismissively about the other participants.
homemade fireworks
Model rockets with the parachute exchanged for explosives?
80: Who will be doing the camera work?
(and will this be posted on YouTube?)
Nobody blogs dismissively about a foursome.
No one serve mashed potatoes. It might just be that kind of party.
Don't underestimate Chopper.
How many other people here were declared a Juvenile Delinquent by the courts?
SCMT must choose: m-fun or UnfoggeDCon.
Choose! choose! choose the form of your destructor!
C'mon, SMCT, you know that you want some m-fun. All the cool kids are doing it. It won't hurt, not even the first time, and you totally won't get addicted. Just try it. You'll like it. I promise.
85: Was everyone in Minneapolis declared a JD in their youth?
Nobody blogs dismissively about a foursome.
Makes you wonder what's happening beyond the frame.
I can't wait until I liveblog the foursome and the self-loathing and guilt that are sure to follow.
Model rockets with the parachute exchanged for explosives?
Surprisingly hard to get working. The charge that blows the nosecone off to release the parachute is pretty strong. On the plus side, that results in nice airbursts.
88 -- no, you have to go to law school for that.
I was actually declared a JD in South Dakota by the same judge who presided over the Janklow trial.
Model rockets with the parachute exchanged for explosives?
Honestly, I don't know. There's an independently wealthy guy who plays ultimate with us. He has no obligations for his days, so he says he makes fireworks, like big ones for big shows. When I mentioned the party, he volunteered some fireworks.
He says he gets together with other fireworks guys a few times a year at gatherings (called Sparks). When I asked him what they do at a Spark, he looked at me like that was the dumbest question he ever heard. "Get drunk and blow things up." I'm angling for an invitation to the next one.
So I'm sitting in this hotel room now in not-homesburg, central europe, and I'm already trying to work out the schedules around being in DC on the 30th and back in Vienna for new year with the kids. Which makes me the faithless one as I have a date with my wife on the 30th for the theatre and I have only just remembered.
So, as always. Next time!
I really do hope to make it over to one of these things.
95: well, that was a pretty silly question.
Holy mother of Christ, this party is going to be awesome. I will be there. I'm going to buy my ticket today.
I and the girlfriend (Sir Kraab) are seriously looking into being there, but we can't confirm yet.
And whether or not we can come, I think everyone should wear nametags at the party.
Actually, I think all people out in public should always wear nametags, but that idea is probably several years away from realization. Baby steps, baby steps.
Fuckers. I'm jealous. To relieve the twisted bitterness, I'm going to try stalking ttaM GcM , he shouldn't be too hard to find. Who else is in this country that I could add to my Harriet-the-Spy-style acquaintances?
Do I want to fly into Dulles or National?
yup, sounds like a blast. Wisht I could be there, but I won't be.
101 - We will be handing out nametags at the door, all of which will say "Hello! My Name Is Standpipe Bridgeplate".
Mentally Disordered Sex Offender. (Google.)
Thou strumpet Fortune! I live in the DC area, but will be visiting my family then.
MDSO is a recognized legal category in South Dakota, I think. At least, that's what a different juvenile delinquent from there told me once.
Janklow was one of the hidden treasures of American politics, more like an old-style Alabama county sheriff than a mild-mannered Midwesterner.
In my opinion South Dakota is the beginning of the Wild West, probably because of the reservations and the Black Hills. (Minnesota is still the Northwest, though, and Southern Iowa is still the beginning of The South).
At the other end of the Continent, Jesus McQueen and I will be holding the world's smallest meetup in Portland Oregon around the 15th, hobnobbing with The Decemberists, away from the riffraff.
112: wish I could make that one too, dammit. I'll be near there on the 18th. Oh well.
107. In addition to SB nametags, you could hand out Flickr masks. Y'know the generic paper-cutout icon they have. A masked-ball! Is that m-fun?
I shall delurk and say that for those of you interested in meeting libertarians, a number of us will surely attend. I'm also a cultural quasi-Mormon, so that's kind of a two-fer, isn't it? Additionally, and crucially, my roomates and I are having a gigantic New Year's Eve party the next day at our house (in Shaw, the heart of Logan Circle), and you're all encouraged to attend.
Hey, I thought I had in on some of that hotel action! Well then, who else wants to look for a hotel/motel room?
"hotel action" s/b "lodging arrangements"
I've got fold-out couch space for at least one person, possibly two, within walking distance of the Flophouse. Though I'm conflicted about whether to take advanced reservations, or wait to find out who among you is the most attractive.
"hot el action"? This isn't a Chicago meetup, not yet anyway.
I'm serious about the hotel thing. (Though there's a chance I can't make the party, I'd still pay for the room.) Does this mean I have to email someone?
Conveniently, I will now disappear for a bit.
West Coast, you should come. We'll have homemade fireworks. What could go wrong?
I'll go ... to both! Assuming I'm actually functional on the 31st.
Labs, email me if you want to split a room.
Advice? Warning? Threat?
I advise staying out of the backyard unless you have galoshes or a taste for dog shit.
It's a running joke about throwing things off of roofs at parties, Will. Nothing personal.
126 - Oh come on. If they want to avoid the dog shit, they can stand on the dead rat. It's still back there, isn't it?
Though I'm conflicted about whether to take advanced reservations, or wait to find out who among you is the most attractive.
After you've been so rude to me?
I guess if I'm just a thing, it can't be personal.
a taste for dog shit.
Depends on what they feed the dog.
No, apo, the Flophaus doesn't have a dog that craps marijuana either.
But you're still attending, right?
I foresee a Labs/Apostropher "Ask" moment.
Yikes. I mentioned to cushla mochree that I was thinking about taking the Amtrak down to DC on the 30th to attend a party of the nature discussed above and she didt'n bat an eyelash. Well -- at most a fractional eyelash.
129: Aw, w-lfs-n, you know I've got nothing but love for you baby, right?
There's going to be a rat skeleton lying in the backyard at this party, isn't there...
I'm actually crashing at Matt's place, so I'm not hogging available hotel room splitting action (that being said, if there's someone on more of a budget than I am, I suppose I can pony up for a share of a hotel room).
C'mon Chopper, how are B and FL and the Apostropher supposed to have a foursome by themselves?
I don't fuck where I sleep, Clownae.
Clownæ, I think SEK is still looking for some of that motel action. The foursome might happen.
I fuck where Apo shits. Try to keep up.
Um, yes, I'm still looking for a place Saturday night. And while I like you guys, I'm not sure I like you like, you know?
But we must all make sacrifices...
SEK, don't worry about me. Labs is the one with a dong that will split you like a rail.
You know, I had been making plans to leave Vegas on the 29th, spend New Year's shamelessly pursuing an old flame in MINNESOTA (where it's insanely fucking cold and the probability of NYE snookums is hovering around 30%) and return to DC (where I live) on the 1st, but this is giving me a run for my money.
Okay, one, no shitting. I am not into the shitting.
And two, what's this apo "email me about splitting a room, Labs" shit? You guys can't leave me out in the cold: someone will have to handle the video camera.
C'mon, NathanL. 30%? Surely you can match those odds at the UnfoggeDCon.
Although SEK, if you want to go double or nothing, we could just continue to share a room.
God, we'd better get along.
149: especially with teo or ben there. We already know they haven't been getting any.
So how many hookups do we think are going to happen at this thing? I say 3.
152: does an n-some count as 1 hookup, n hookups, or n choose 2 hookups?
I say 3
Involving how many individuals?
Dr. B., everybody loves me. I'm the life of the party, unless you don't want me to be. I'll be your mirror, unless you're self-loathing or just hate Nico, in which case I'll oblige differently.
But yes, I'm game for anyone who wants to room. It only takes me 3 hrs. to muss my hair just so. I wear Sambas and snappy jackets, like long walks on the beach and have a soft spot for people with soft spots...
I'm troubled by #135. It is the responsibility of every male Unfogged commenter at the party to cockblock w-lfs-n at all relevant moments throughout the night.
"Hey, old flame, there are these internet people having this thing, but you know how I planned on coming to Minneapolis for NYE to hang out and um but possibly, er,"
...
"OK, a 30% chance of, er, I know, but do you think you could talk probability at me for a while? You know, say things like 'n choose 2' in that voice of yours? They've really upped the ante over there on the net and you've got competition."
...
"Shit."
160 - You know, Tim, if you came to the party, you could cockblock w-lfs-n.
156 & 152: So you are allowing for the possibility of one threesome, or three individual hookups. I think the field is a bit wider than that.....
It is the responsibility of every male Unfogged commenter at the party to cockblock w-lfs-n at all relevant moments throughout the night.
This is absolutely right. Has w-lfs-n ever shown any of you any mercy? Would he? Don't fail, boys.
SCMT is just trying to mess up the betting pool.
162: Becks, under no circumstances are you allowed to so much as talk to w-lfs-n without a chaperon. I fear he'll be deploying the big guns.
West Coast, you should come.
You shouldn't say that if you don't mean it.
I'm guessing that in about twenty years, Brut cologne will start to have a resurgence in popularity as the very people who now associate it with skeevy men become nostaglic for their youth, or as the daughters of the skeevy men (now reformed!) develop a fond association with it.
167 - Dude, Ben went to a Sleater-Kinney concert with me. Can you imagine how giddy I get after a Sleater-Kinney concert? Do you think I could say no to anything in that state? He will never again have that good of a chance of getting me into bed.
I have the same problem as SP, but with ten times more miles.
if it's just for one night I have a sofa or two to volunteer, I think, though I should ideally check with my mom. SEK?
more generally: this is the most awesome thing EVAR!! I'm so glad b-wo will be there to get cock-blocked!
Alright you fuckers. I just booked my flights. Matt, let me know if two nights is an inconvenience and I'll try to grub up someone else to shack up with.
I just booked my flights.
HA! Everybody can quit pretending we're doing this now.
Can you imagine how giddy I get after a Sleater-Kinney concert? Do you think I could say no to anything in that state?
Now you tell us, after they've called it quits.
SCMT is really gilding the lily with all this scheming.
Hell, I've only ever met B. The rest of you are just imaginary. I see us showing up at an empty lot and smolking a few cigarettes before we go home and right snippy posts about how eastcoasters don't know to really party.
179: I don't know what that means, but yes I am.
Seriously, Tim, why the fuck aren't you coming?
No problem at all, Chopper. (Is the second night Friday or Sunday?)
That's the second damn time tonight I've written "right" when I meant "write." I sure hope that CAT scan comes back clean.
Ben went to a Sleater-Kinney concert with me. Can you imagine how giddy I get after a Sleater-Kinney concert? Do you think I could say no to anything in that state?
Hell, I was at an S-K concert with you! The sting of missed opportunities...
182: Previously committed. Family.
So, Chopper, Dr.B and John Emerson, are we still on for the Mpls Meet-Up or is this incredible night of debauchery going to wear everyone out too much? Would a January 2nd Happy Hour work? The Local? The Blue Nile? Let me know.
187: Weak excuse. Are any of your family currently pregnant?
The girlfriend and I are pretty much certainly going to be there.
And I doubt we'll need to do any cockblocking of young w-lfs-n. As has been repeatedly established, he has no game. I'm all for keeping an eye on him, just to make sure he doesn't get lucky somehow, but there's no need to bring a bazooka to a thumbwrestling contest.
188: Works for me. Local's fine, dunno the Blue Nile, but I'm sure it's fine too. I'm easy.
186 - True, you missed both your chance to cash in on post concert euphoria and to comfort my concert denial despair. Sucka!
187: I was committed by family once, too.
Dang. I'll be nearby (NoVa) visiting family around the 25th, but I hadn't planned on staying as long as the 30th. Maybe I'll see if my work and boston NYE schedule can fit into this....
And I doubt we'll need to do any cockblocking of young w-lfs-n. As has been repeatedly established, he has no game.
Ooof. Rookie mistake. It reminds me of this story:
Playing against Utah Jazz, 6' 6" (198 cm) Jordan dunked over 6' 1" (185.4 cm), 175 lb. (80 k) John Stockton. A heckler razzed, "Why don't you dunk on somebody your own size?" In his next play, Jordan dunked again, this time on 6' 11" (210 cm), 285-lb. (129 k) center Melvin Turpin. He turned to the fan and asked, "Was he big enough?"
Enjoy your time with your girlfriend; on the thirtieth, she becomes w-lfs-n's.
That is an awesome story. Reminds me of the Vince Carter dunk over the, like, 8' Slovenian dude.
194 gets it exactly right. Enlisting one's girlfriend in a cockblocking mission is extremely risky. The law of unintended consequences is nowhere more relevant.
All part of the scam. We're guaranteeing his success by lowering expectations.
I think you're talking about the dunk over Weiss. Weiss had just been drafted in the first round by the Knicks, of course.
Wow. I mean, forcing a 7'2" dude to decide between "face full of Vince's Crotch" humiliation, or "duck slightly and be that seven-footer who got dunked *over*" humilation. Rough.
168 - Of course everyone is welcome here for my New Year's party. I mean that invitation. We're hoping for rowdy and multiple visits from the cops. Email me for directions.
B, Minneapolitan -- I'm planning for Jan 2 and should be able to make it .
Guys, believe me, I can cockblock myself just fine.
I sent out many emails. Blessed be, they reach their destinations and I don't have to sleep in a terminal of some sort.
So when you guys write up the BPhd/Labs/Apo afterparty, I think you can once again turn to UnfoggeDCon photographer Matt Wright for your cover image.
This is way late, but- "The Florida Flophouse"? WTF is that? I thought you lived at someplace named the Cheese Blowjob or something like that? Or is this party at a different location?
205: I think you were off by one, Susan.
I may have to contact people again on Jan 2 in Minneapolis if I have ticket problems. I'll know tomorrow AM.
Might there be a place to crash in MPLS? I'm juggling various options at the moment as to how to make this work.
We're hoping for rowdy and multiple visits from the cops.
De gustibus non disputandem an' all, but I would be mortified (mortified!) to be in attendance of a party that was broken up by the cops.
Apo is very thoughtful. I wonder which one is nearest the bar?
John, I'd be happy to put you up if it were just me, but the pregnant wife is not up for houseguests. Sorry.
Perhaps your wife can stay in the homeless shelter? They probably have medical services available.
211 - Really? I can't tell if you're being serious. The first two visits by the cops aren't a big deal, because they are still friendly and feel bad about having to break up the fun (because we obviously look like responsible party throwers and don't have drunk minors throwing up in the neighbor's bushes). If they come back a third time, you get fined. Shoot, we got a cop out here for a three-person dance party (with another Unfogged commenter, I might add), this summer (as the daughter of an acoustician, I have very loud good speakers). You don't have to end the party when the cops come, you just have to shut the doors and windows and turn the music down.
I mean, sometimes it was a little embarassing in college to look down and realize that with lingerie on, I was far and away the most dressed person at the party, so I was the one who would have to go talk to the cops, but they were well-trained Berkeley cops, so they held eye contact the whole time. I wouldn't say that was mortifying.
215: absolutely. It's only really exciting if they bring a tactical team.
Off-topic, but I'm a little surprised that nobody has yet mentioned the fact that Britney Spears has rendered the nipple slip obsolete.
217: Apo, I think you're getting the wrong message:
"She's a beautiful girl and now that she's single and she's having fun, I think she's just trying to express herself," said New York-based celebrity image consultant Amanda Sanders. "Unfortunately, it's the wrong message that's coming across. And the shame is she was really such a role model."
I think she's just trying to express herself
Such a fine line between "express" and "expose".
Paris Hilton was a year ahead of Britney.
220: The funniest one of the pictures is of Paris Hilton closing Britney's legs for her, because when Paris Hilton is trying to impose some modesty on you, well...
I feel a little bad for Brittney; there's something extra vicious about the way the press is going after her. Or perhaps I just sympathize with her more than I sympathize with Paris for some reason.
Has the custody dispute been settled, then?
215: It's never happened before, but I sort of see myself as the guy calling the cops (you noisy kids, with their hair and their clothes!), not the other way around. It would be extremely embarrassing to me.
there's something extra vicious about the way the press is going after her
I dunno; she seems in this last month or so to have aggressively courted publicity.
The phrase "set for life" tends to reduce people's sympathy potential.
Britney isn't much of a singer or anything, but she worked hard to get where she is, and she apparently is smart about pre-nups.
A friend from Montreal tells me that Celine Dion comes from down home, sorta trashy Quebequois family. For a lot of singers trashiness is part of the appeal.
215: The thing to remember is that Megan is one of the sensible, rational, under-control Californians.
225: Don't worry. This is cureable.
Celine Dion didn't speak English until she had already started her successful singing career.
225 - Then I should have you over for one of my quieter gatherings, which are about food and talk. We've never gotten the cops at one of those.
229 - Among my friends, I am relatively staid.
Megan, call the cops on Sam k first. I bet his yard's a mess.
194 makes no sense. w-lfs-n is no Jordan. I don't even think he'd qualify for that team of whiteys that always lose to the Globetrotters.
196: I didn't mean to imply that the girlfriend would be enlisted in the cockblocking. She hardly knows w-lfs-n, so probably wouldn't be that effective anyway.
So, is the girlfriend familiar with the various Mineshaft personalities?
What, Apo, you're going to pretend to be Ben?
Thereby diverting the cockblocking away from the real ben. Good strategy.
239: Thereby preemptively sucking up the weird w-lfs-n-love that has developed in this neck of the blogosphere. I think the theory is that forcing you to rely on your real world charms is cockblock enough. I remain pessimistic.
"As a matter of fact, Ben, that anti-cockblock potion was nothing but club soda. That's right, Ben! You were being cockblocked all along, and it was your own confidence that overcame it. All you need is to believe in yourself, and cockblockery will be powerless against you."
Alternatively, he could wear a pair of ruby slippers.
Teo and Lobofilho, note the advantages of the no-relationships policy. With an announced no-relatioship policy, properly defined, you wouldn't have this flock of crows swarming around you and pecking at your naughty bits.
I'd be there if my wife wasn't due that week. So, I'll either be a few miles up the road changing diapers or working on keeping everyone relaxed and breathing properly (especially myself) during natural childbirth.
Congratulations! Just ask Brock -- new babies are easy.
Pregnant women are so unreasonable in their demands. When I was a boy, women gave birth during their lunch break and went right back to work.
Congratulations, benton. New babies are indeed pretty easy, because they stay right where you put them down.
And I mean no insult or disrespect to you and yours whatsoever, but natural childbirth strikes me as the very essence of crazy. Not unlike deciding you want a natural appendectomy.
My exwife was very happy with natural childbirth, but she did say that it hurt like hell. She got up full of energy after 28 hrs labor and 5 hrs. sleep. Everyone else was exhausted.
There was a naturopath in attendance, and there was an episiotomy and a pitocin injection (to speed labor?? I forgot.). "Natural" is a moving target.
Depends on how it goes for you. It really wasn't that bad. (That is, I've had a pretty sheltered life, injury wise, and I can think of at least one experience that beats childbirth for pain.)
Talking to friends who had painkillers, I don't think I had a substantially more difficult experience than most of them did, and I'm really not a martyr about pain. But this is complicated by having had quick labors -- I'm sure that if I'd been in pain for days rather than hours, I'd have been all about the drugs.
Not that 'hurts like hell' wasn't a fair description of bits of it. But overall, not all that bad. And Lamaze breathing is, IME, surprisingly effective. I still pull it out of the box for shots and stuff like that.
Sure, but having a tooth pulled without anaesthetic wouldn't be the most painful thing I've experienced either, and there are any number of mental exercises you could use to handle the pain of that. I still don't really see the advantage, though.
On the other hand, my views on natural childbirth may be colored by my views on the recreational use of anaesthetics.
Well, there's a tradeoff for the painkillers; you're attached to a needle in your spine. Even if you're not phobic about that, that's an unpleasant hassle, and one that can pin you in a particular position, and one that can slow labor. This doesn't make epidurals bad, but if your preferences for discomfort are skewed toward preferring pain over being harassed, then the natural childbirth thing can be easier.
Ugh, yeah the thought of an epidural really scared me. Much as I love recreational pharmaceuticals, I never wanted them injected them into my spine. I remember sitting in the hospital bathroom in labour, staring at the fins on the radiator wibbling, and thinking, wow, this is like being on acid.
Pain vs harassment - yeah, I went for pain. Had one in hospital and then the subsequent three at home - and didn't actually manage to call the midwife in time for the last, which was a rather extreme way of avoiding harassment I guess!
Yay Benton!
C'mon, wusses. I had natural labor with pitocin, which takes you from 0-60 in about 30 seconds, for 24 hours. It was intense, but oddly bearable in a you-get-zoned-out kinda way.
Then I ended up with a fucking epidural and a c-section, which were really a pain. Not scary or particularly awful at the time, but zoned out in a different, less in control kinda way. Plus the recovery sucked.
Oooo. I have heard scary things about pitocin. Glad to have skipped that bit.
I had natural labor with pitocin
A, um, friend of mine had that, without meaning to. Not so good.
But 255 is exactly the sort of story that would make me less likely to commit emotionally or ideologically to natural childbirth.
One of my sisters was hoping to go the natural-birth route. She'd done everything by the book, did her pre-natal yoga, worked with her doula (sp?), and then her child was two weeks late, in a wonky position, had the largest head on record in her state, and, surprise, surprise, after hours and hours of labor, she had a C-section. She was kinda disappointed about the epidural and C-section, but that was the way it had to be.
My ex-wife recommended that her sister have natural childbirth too, and she did, and everyone seems happy with their choice.
It wasn't as bad as I expected, except that it kinda sweeps you off your feet initially. Luckily, the nurse on duty at the time was great at getting me caught up and centered on riding the contractions out, and from that point on it was just, well, you know how it was.
I did end up with burn marks on my lower back from the TENS unit, though. But DAMN it felt GOOD at the time.
258: Yup, same here: two weeks late, 10+ lbs, face up. I'd try natural childbirth again if I could find a doc who'll do a VBAC, but I'm also pretty glad that I live in a world with modern medicine. I probably wouldn't have died delivering the little turkey, but enough is enough.
258: Well, there's a difference between committing to it ideologically and emotionally, and just deciding that you'd prefer to do it that way if there's no medical reason not to. I was expecting to have a C with Sally, after having planned an unmedicated birth, because she was breech until quite late, and then she turned head down at 36 weeks or so. (And then she turned back during labor, so she ended up being born breech anyway, but we wouldn't have planned that.)
But I wasn't distraught by the prospect of the C -- it just wasn't my first choice. Where they're necessary, they're lifesaving.
Wow, an Unfogged natural childbirth debate. Apo - this is one of those times when as long as its medically feasible to do so you just suck it up and be supportive. We did natural childbirth for the first one for 24 hours before going with the pitocin, which was exactly as B described for several hours. This led to an epidural, and ultimately to a successful C-section after 36 hours. The boy just didn't want to come out. You try to go as far as you can and then you try something new.
This time the issue is that there's a school of thought that once you do that, you should always do a C-section, but my wife doesn't want to just give in to the surgery again without taking another shot at it naturally. So we're doing the relaxation excercises and she'd doing the yoga and all. But neither of us is going to be surprised if it doesn't work out. As long as everyone's safe it will be fine.
My wife tried subcutaneous injections of saline to relieve her labor pain. It sort-of worked, but didn't last as long as was expected.
We started at home, water tank and mid-wife. We ended up at the hospital with my wife on antibiotics, pitocin, mag-sulfate, and an epidural. She was fucking awesome though, after 3 freaking days of labor. The little one (can you still say that when they're 9lbs 15oz?) was ready and the mid-wife turned the epidural off, so to speak. My wife pushed naturally and delivered into my hands (the family won't ever forget the image of me, shirt off, my hands helping to guide my daughter into the world).
That was 4.5 years ago. Still a vivid memory.
My sister-in-law really, really wanted natural childbirth, but both times she had a C section. It's not an either-or cjhoice, you absolutely want backup.
Apo is comparing this to the time he did something shameful with a medium sized watermelon, and I've heard that comparison made.
I know that talking about hormones is unfeminist, but during childbirth and labor there are a lot of unusual things going on in women's bodies.
Yeah. Childbirth is one of those things where as long as everything goes smoothly (which it's more likely to than not) there's no real need for medical intervention -- you're not sick, just going through a natural process. But when something goes wrong (which is not at all unlikely) you really really really want to be in or near a hospital.
I went unmedicated with a midwife practice, but their birthing center was on the 12th floor of a hospital -- something went wrong, the OBs with the scalpels were a room away.
suck it up and be supportive
Of course. It still wouldn't seem any less nuts to me, but it isn't a decision I'll ever have to make so I don't begrudge anybody else their choice. My first wife tried to do natural childbirth, but after 24 hours of labor she was very ready for the drugs. Roberta had no desire to go the natural route, but that one ended up being an emergency C-section. She's pretty well decided to do a scheduled C-section with this one.
My mom tried for natural childbirth with me and ended up having to have a C. Not wanting to try for the VBAC, she calls my brothers her "babies by appointment". She scheduled the youngest for December 31 to sneak in the tax credit.
To be clear, I'm not trying (or have ever tried) to talk anybody out of anything. I'm speaking from the standpoint of if I had to give birth.
I know that talking about hormones is unfeminist, but during childbirth and labor there are a lot of unusual things going on in women's bodies.
Screw that, it's not unfeminist at all. Shit, three days after a Csection I went home and made fucking dinner for six people. The only possible explanation is that I was high as a kite on oxytocin.
Oh, sure. I'm arguing (if this counts as arguing) mostly to point out that the medicated route isn't necessarily easier -- that going unmedicated can be a straight preference rather than martyrdom for a principle. I don't think there are any principles involved in avoidable suffering.
I'm speaking from the standpoint of if I had to give birth.
Giving birth isn't so bad; it's the fucking 40+ weeks of being pregnant that sucks. Or at least 30 out of the 40 weeks.
As I've said before, both of my wives loved being pregnant.
Well, we already knew they were crazy, by definition.
Yep. And I had easy pregnancies -- no major health problems (or minor health problems) -- it's just annoying being this giant clumsy thing.
Apparently the watermelon incident is too recent to talk about.
Maybe it's just being impregnated by *me* that makes the difference. We could do a controlled experiment, B.
RE 270- I'm with you. What's funny is that the first experience really made my wife detemined to try to do it naturally again. She feels like she's been cheated a bit. And the first experience made me much more tense about the whole thing.
Re 273 and 274 Both this time and last I think my wife enjoyed the second trimester. But the third is not a walk in the park. And its worse now because our son (3 yrs old) isn't letting her get any rest. He can smell the displacement. He told one of his playmates today that his new baby sister is going to live with his aunt in Carolina. Plus sushi and wine withdrawal is now hitting pretty hard.
I intended to have natural childbirth the first time but ended up with the epidural. vaginal delivery, though. I don't think we should lightly underestimate the sheer awesomeness of having narcotics injected into your spinal column, but then, I'm not squeamish about needles. it is somewhat creepy, though, and I was worried it wasn't going to stay in place properly.
the sheer awesomeness of having narcotics injected into your spinal column
I'll bet. From where I was standing, plain old pill form Stadol looked pretty fun too. She was fucking loopy.
You know, my fiancé was a ten-pound baby and he has a big round head. Hmm. Our kids better take after me or I will kick his ass as soon as they stitch me back together.
My sister was premature and very nearly came out in a taxicab. I think that it was a pretty natural birth.
I am so very jealous of you guys and your party/meetup. I'd have to beg for time off--which I might be able to do--and then maybe I could swing A greyhound fare, but it would be tight; there's no way I could afford a room.
I have friends in DC with whom I've crashed in the past, but I wouldn't wantr to ask them again. I spent a couple of weeks in their basement apartment that was only a step up from a studio, and I'm amazed that we are still friends. I will never ask to crash at their palce again.
Cala, you're not allowed to kick a newborn baby's ass. Their ass bones haven't solidified yet.
278: I hated pregnancy. The risk is too great to run the test.
282: I've read that studies show that big babies come from the father's side. That said, my kid was huge, my sister's kids were huge, I was huge...
279: IANAD, but at this point she can eat sushi and drink wine. I know I did both at all stages--in the last trimester, I ate sushi like 4x/week, and, well, hey: 10 lb baby.
I weighed 10lb8oz, my brother weighed 9-12. My first son weighed 9 even, but the second one was just over 5 (mostly thanks to a kink or twist or something in the umbilical cord; he came out all emaciated). So you just never know.
My wife jumped from a contraction while the epidural was being inserted, which tweaked some nerve and she lost feeling in her leg for weeks. She's all better now though.
The best part was the "holy shit" look on the anasthesiologist's face when it happened. ("Best" in retrospect -- at the time it was scary.) He knew something bad had happened, and was just sort of like "I told you not to move" (as if she were just dancing around for fun). I expect that sort of thing happens reasonably often, given the circumstances, but I'm not a medical professional.
Not to get off-off-topic, what with the fascinating discussion of anesthesia and child-birth that y'all have going here, but... if anyone attending the UnfoggeDCon is still looking for a hotel room to share, I'm probably going to get one for that night and I'd be happy to split the cost with someone. Just drop me a line (bayes dot rule at gmail dot com).
Kris and I just bought our tickets. Oh boy oh boy oh boy . . . .
So, is the girlfriend familiar with the various Mineshaft personalities?
Not really. She just started reading about a month ago and has commented only (I think) once. I kind of have the feeling she's not that into Unfogged, but we'll see.
She lived in DC for about ten years before moving to Austin a couple of years ago, so she has plenty of reasons to visit DC apart from UnfoggeDCon. I'm the one coming solely to meet imaginary friends.
She was very cool when we met her the last time you were in D.C. And much more game and willing to put up with imaginary friends than other GFs/BFs/spouses who have tagged along in the past. Keeper!
much more game and willing to put up with imaginary friends than other GFs/BFs/spouses who have tagged along in the past
Hey!
Did the Ex or EBL go to one of these things?
296 -- I thought I remembered her demonstrating intolerance for imaginary friends?
294 - I wasn't thinking of The Ex. The Ex was totally game. She even helped Mr. B draw evolutionary diagrams of dolphins, fish, and mermaids.
You know, Ogged, not everything is about you.
Hey, you didn't note any exceptions, Becks.
"than other Xs", ogged, does not mean the same thing as "than the other Xs"; only in the latter case would one need to name exceptions explicitly in order to convey that one was not talking about all Xs other than the one under direct discussion.
Also 293 specified "GFs/BFs/Spouses", not including "Exes" in its purview at all.
And Osner, you little chickenshit, I don't recall you even talking to the Ex.
He "talked" to her later, ogged, up in the balcony.
Ogged's defensiveness is pretty cute.
By "demonstrating intolerance" Clownæ meant "not demonstrating untrammeled lust".
Clownò, The correct singular is "testis".
311 -- I thought that was a video game? The thing with the falling shapes that can be rotated?
Clownä likes his dangling shapes to be rotated.
Beyond a certain point, I'd say I don't.
Yeah, actually, now that I think about it...
293: She was very cool when we met her the last time you were in D.C.
Back at ya, Becks.
292: She lived in DC for about ten years
Um, M/tch honey, it was 15 years. You'd better start paying attention when I tell you stuff, or I may up crying in my beer and turning to w-lfs-n for comfort.
too bad teddy K ain't around each year for the MLA apparatchik fest and celebration of things non-literary .......indeed ah wager steven crane would napalm the entire soireee, with count joe conrad flying co-pilot
