Re: Found In Translation

1

Yep. The whole thing is just so ridiculous.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 01-22-07 11:48 PM
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"Ridiculous" unless, of course, Obama Hussein really in the Islam-Manchurian candidate.


Posted by: Al | Link to this comment | 01-22-07 11:50 PM
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He isn't even Muslim.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 01-22-07 11:52 PM
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Al, I was serious about you not commenting on any other threads.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 01-22-07 11:53 PM
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Why are you even letting him comment on that one?


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 01-22-07 11:54 PM
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I don't like to ban people, and generally folks will troll a thread and go away, and I'm willing to let them get it out of their system for the day.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 01-22-07 11:56 PM
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It's still "one day" on the West Coast!


Posted by: Al | Link to this comment | 01-22-07 11:57 PM
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teofilo:

If Obama IS the anti-Christ, you wouldn't expect him to just come out and admit it, would you?


Posted by: Al | Link to this comment | 01-22-07 11:58 PM
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Al, I'm asking you nicely to no longer comment here. I'll see you at Yglesias's.


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 01-22-07 11:59 PM
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As the phrase "West Coast weenie" takes on a whole new meaning.


Posted by: DS | Link to this comment | 01-23-07 12:02 AM
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I hesitate to bother commenting right now, but I'm curious: Are the fundamentalist Muslim schools that get called "madrassas" actually called by some other name?


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 01-23-07 12:02 AM
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12

I don't know what they're called over there. Teo?


Posted by: ogged | Link to this comment | 01-23-07 12:08 AM
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I don't think so, but the point is that other kinds of school are also called "madrassa"; the word simply means "school."


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 01-23-07 12:09 AM
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12-3: okay, I was just curious if they had a special name, but it's understandable that they might not.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 01-23-07 12:13 AM
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This article has some useful information. It points out that the word is usually used in the US for a specific type of "post-graduate Islamic school," but it doesn't make the distinction very clear. "Jami'a" is indeed the word for "university," but I don't think it's used for the Islamic schools in Pakistan that people generally mean when they talk about "madrassas."


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 01-23-07 12:16 AM
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It looks like "darul uloom" ("house of knowledge") is another term used for this kind of institution, although it may indicate a higher-level curriculum than an ordinary madrassa.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 01-23-07 12:20 AM
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Interesting. Thanks, teo. And now: sleep.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 01-23-07 12:27 AM
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'Night, Stanley.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 01-23-07 12:28 AM
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Actually in Indonesia a madrasah is specifically an Islamic day school - as opposed to an ordinary state school (sekolah), but there is no reason to expect it to be promoting radical Islamism. It would be unusual for a non-Muslim to attend one, though I'm sure it happens, just as non-Christians can go to Christian schools etc.
Islamic boarding schools in Indonesia are called pesantren. A few have been associated with radical Islamism of the Abu Bakar Bashir variety, the vast majority have not.


Posted by: Nakku | Link to this comment | 01-23-07 4:15 AM
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But the thing is, it doesn't even look like the school in question is a madrasah.


Posted by: Nakku | Link to this comment | 01-23-07 4:58 AM
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I'm taking this thread to 100 while teo and Stanley sleep.


Posted by: Nakku | Link to this comment | 01-23-07 5:03 AM
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100? long ways to go


Posted by: nattarGcM ttaM | Link to this comment | 01-23-07 5:10 AM
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Indonesia's madrasahs seem to be pretty secular and modernized, much like Islam in Indonesia itself. They use the national curriculum, plus some religion, and are certified as equivalents to state-run schools. I could imagine one adding Christian classes for Christian attendees.


Posted by: Minivet | Link to this comment | 01-23-07 5:50 AM
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22: Especially with that attitude.


Posted by: Nakku | Link to this comment | 01-23-07 6:18 AM
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Obama also spent two years at a Catholic school. According to one of his books, they were both the local schools and he spent two years at one and two years at the other and pretty much ignored both.

But think, the horrors. Candidate Foreignistani also went to a university!


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 01-23-07 6:23 AM
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Obama also spent two years at a Catholic school.

And we all know a man cannot serve two masters...


Posted by: Anarch | Link to this comment | 01-23-07 6:47 AM
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It gives him a greater claim to being antichristastic.


Posted by: Cala | Link to this comment | 01-23-07 6:59 AM
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27: He's got a decent claim, but he's still trailing Hillary Clinton and Ahmadinejad.


Posted by: apostropher | Link to this comment | 01-23-07 7:11 AM
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Now *there's* a reason to vote for Hillary.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 01-23-07 7:16 AM
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12: A religious school in the Arab world is called a "madrasa," or "madaaris" in the plural.

But that's because any school is a madrasa, as others have noted; if you want to specify the type of school, you say "religious school" (madrasa diiniya), or primary school or secondary school or language school or whatever.

People are always on about "maadraaassaaahs" (as Angry Arab calls them to mock Americans) in relation to Pakistan; it's possible that Pakistanis borrowed the word from Arabic to refer specifically to religious schools, but I'm completely ignorant here.

What's really super-irritating is when people automatically assume that an Islamic religious school is teaching an extreme version of Islam.


Posted by: dagger aleph | Link to this comment | 01-23-07 8:06 AM
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30: thanks, DA. I had a follow-up quesiton on how to properly pluralize the word, but then I went to bed instead.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 01-23-07 8:10 AM
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32

Er, question.


Posted by: Stanley | Link to this comment | 01-23-07 8:11 AM
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And I just saw that Juan Cole has addressed this issue.


Posted by: dagger aleph | Link to this comment | 01-23-07 8:22 AM
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...in which he points out that a religious school for children is a "maktab." I didn't realize the distinction between maktab and madrasa (or madrasa al-'uluum) was still observed.


Posted by: dagger aleph | Link to this comment | 01-23-07 8:29 AM
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It's a big world out there -- I wouldn't be surprised if the distinction exists some places and not others.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 01-23-07 8:34 AM
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But Cole's got a wonderful rant going there: treat yourselves.


Posted by: I don't pay | Link to this comment | 01-23-07 8:36 AM
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35: Cole's just talking about the Arab world, and he's probably right. The reason I wouldn't be aware of the distinction is that in Cairo I didn't know anyone who sent their kids to specifically religious schools, whereas I did know a fair number of young adults (mostly from Indonesia, as it happens) who were at religious schools.


Posted by: dagger aleph | Link to this comment | 01-23-07 8:47 AM
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I wouldn't be surprised if the distinction exists some places and not others.

Like, among the left and among the right.

28: What's the deal with labeling George W. Bush, "President of USA"? I was shocked to see his name there. Also, the suggestion that the entire EU might be the Antichrist is an interesting reading, but I think they could have developed it more.


Posted by: Armsmasher | Link to this comment | 01-23-07 8:53 AM
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I wouldn't be surprised if the distinction exists some places and not others.

Yeah. It's like "assault rifle" and "automatic". I'd think, to most of the US population, a madrassa is a place one learns to fly planes into buildings and files requisitions for virgins.


Posted by: Biohazard | Link to this comment | 01-23-07 9:06 AM
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So, yes, if one is speaking Arabic, Barack Obama went to a "madrasah," i.e. an elementary school! So did you.

Unless you were home schooled, which of course keeps you free from the America-hating brainwashing that Our Public Schools are so busy shoving down the throats of Our Children.


Posted by: bitchphd | Link to this comment | 01-23-07 9:08 AM
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I'm totally writing in Ahmadinejad in 08.


Posted by: FL | Link to this comment | 01-23-07 9:23 AM
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But "madrassa" doesn't mean "Muslim seminary" anywhere other than in the United States. It's an Arabic word that's been borrowed by several languages, and it means, "school."

That's the brilliance of it as a slur. Obama's also a compulsive masticator, even masticating in public with children present.


Posted by: Hamilton Lovecraft | Link to this comment | 01-23-07 9:24 AM
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And has been known to engage in entirely veracious characterizations of his political opponents.


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 01-23-07 9:32 AM
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and files requisitions for virgins

Can't that be done online now?


Posted by: I don't pay | Link to this comment | 01-23-07 9:39 AM
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Somehow, that sounds like a job description for a nun's admin. "What do you do for a living?" "I file requisitions for virgins."


Posted by: LizardBreath | Link to this comment | 01-23-07 9:49 AM
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42: and his epidermis is showing.


Posted by: Katherine | Link to this comment | 01-23-07 10:06 AM
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46: And his sister is a thespian.


Posted by: rob helpy-chalk | Link to this comment | 01-23-07 10:13 AM
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You would think that the party of William Buckley wouldn't fall for this.


Posted by: Jackmormon | Link to this comment | 01-23-07 10:29 AM
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Yes, well, it's no longer the party of William Buckley in any meaningful way.


Posted by: teofilo | Link to this comment | 01-23-07 10:48 AM
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I'm not 100% sure on this but I very strongly suspect the place wasn't even a madrassah (ie elementary school in indonesia that teaches islam as welll as regular stuff) but a plain old sekolah in a muslim-majority area, because he said there were non-muslims attending.


Posted by: alameida | Link to this comment | 01-24-07 3:36 AM
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Yeah, what I said.


Posted by: Nakku | Link to this comment | 01-24-07 6:47 AM
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