Why is Eva Mendes here?
You prat. And racist.
Wait - you saw commercials for this, and yet still decided to go see it? Maybe PhDs are overrated...
Reasonable good comic books get turned into bad movies. Was there ever hope for a really bad comic book becoming a good movie?
Still, better or worse than Superman Returns?
Why did you have to go watch it?
Perhaps the compositionality of coolness is rather like the compositionality of tasty food. Waffles? Great. Syrup? Great. Chocolate cake? Great. Waffles & Syrup & Chocolate Cake? Bad.
We must investigate the essence of the superhero powers; personally, I think you shouldn't cobble together superheroes out of other heroes' spare parts.
There's a reason his son is named Kal-El and not Iron Fist. Nicolas Cage is just showing Stan Lee the love, like Kirby did with Funky Flashman.
I didn't see commercials. I went out of a feeling of...idunno. Obligation or some nonsense.
This was worse than Superman Returns. On the other hand, the flaming skull looked cool.
Cool isn't compositional. There's your problem.
mmmm. damnit Cala, you made me want waffles & syrup & chocolate cake.
Superman Returns made me want to hunt down Brian Singer and crush him under a crate of silver-age comics. it seems impossible that he also did X-Men 2.
The Ghost Rider guys at least have an excuse that GR is one of the worst Marvel heroes ever and embodies almost all that is bad abotu the 70s aesthetic. From the first, a film version was a doomed enterprise. The question: what Marvel hero is the second least likely to translate onto the big screen? I would have said unquestionably The Silver Surfer. But what do I know?
Huh, I thought Ghostrider was this Swedish dude (watch from about :55 to 1:30) who is unquestionably awesome.
Jesus. At this rate, I eagerly await the Thanatos movie.
2: I agree completely.
I was assuming that this movie was going straight to video.
Cage and Keaton was be using Terrell Owens former agent.
Watch out; if you insult Fontana's phD too much, he might beat you to death with his magical, flaming cock.
I suspect that the golden age of Marvel comics movies is over. Spiderman 3 might still be awesome, but then we're done.
I'm trying to picture a chocolate cake with stroopwafels adorning the top of it. I think it might be good, except the maple flavor might overwhelm to chocolate. Maybe you could make these and arrange them around the perimeter of the cake like lady-fingers.
dude, a Ghost Rider movie could have been totally cool. Evil! But good! And fire! Seriously, what's not to love?
I suspect that the golden age of Marvel comics movies is over.
You might be right. On the non-Marvel front, however, I'm eagerly awaiting The Dark Knight.
He's a skeleton on fire that rides a motorcycle. That may look awesome stenciled on the side of a Chevy van, but I'm not sure it translates well to other media.
Was Elfquest ever made into a movie? Checking IMDB, I see that it was, in '02 -- anybody here see it?
20: Very astute. I think also that we have a clue here as to the compositionality of cool. In some media--mostly still visuals--cool is compositional in a straightforward, almost additive fashion: cool(flaming skull) = cool(fire) + cool(skull). Once a temporal, narrative element is introduced, things become less straightforward.
Your attempts to save compositionality remind one, rob, of nothing so much as the addition of epicycle upon epicycle to Ptolemaic astronomy.
You know what would be cool? Flaming epicycles. On motorcycles.
baa, I'm totally not seeing the problem. How is it more lame than some dude in tights?
10 - Oh, c'mon, you can do better than that. How about a Power Pack movie? Or Alpha Flight? Or Cloak and Dagger? If I've got to put in a bet, though, I'll put it on the Eternals, because of the facial hair.
A Dr. Strange movie could be pretty good.
When did we enter the golden age of Marvel comics movies?
Dr. Strange: the TV movie from the 70s.. The movie in production.
The 1978 movie was pretty cool when I was 10.
26: I used to love Power Pack, so help me god. Then they turned into horses and the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles showed up, or something. I was disgusted.
Maybe it's just me, but motorcyles and flaming skeletons seem as dated as the GMC Pacer.
Also, the pure "guy in tights" conversion is rare. Maybe the first two superman movies, but that's it. The good ones succeed by being movies about iconic properties, or compelling characters. Demonic possession maybe could have been done well, but generally when Hollywood meddles with angels and demons it ends up more like "Spawn" than like (the under-rated) "Constantine."
Mark Wahlberg as the Dread Dormammu, that looks great.
Demonic possession? Baa, it's an action-movie goldmine-- there's enough obvious character stuff (i am yin and yang, hear my loud pipes) to make it like the good batman movie, and enough fire and chrome to make it look cool. Where do I stop and where does the demon begin? Do I get to like the mayhem?
Oh, wait, Harvard boy: see, it's a revenge tragedy from the Jacobean stage, only with big bikes. Call Stephen Greenblatt.
Maybe it's not a composition problem. Maybe flaming skeletons just aren't that cool.
It just is all a bit too heavy metal album cover.
You say that as if it's a bad thing, baa. What's wrong with being sexy?
28: The golden age of Marvel movies probably started with the X-Men movie, after which we saw a bunch of superhero movies of which more than half didn't completely suck, and XMEN 2 and the two Spiderman movies were actually pretty awesome.
This sounds pretty sad, until you compare that track record with what came before, in terms of superhero movies.
A "fiery motorcycle" is inherently cheesy. It just is. It's like having a superhero named Skil that has the power to control power tools within a certain radius of him. You cannot start with cheese and hope to progress to cool. How is baa's point not self-evident?
I love X-Men 2. Nightcrawler! Nightcrawler!!!!!
But Storm blows. Cool superpower that just doesn't really work on film. Watch me stand here boringly while the wind howls. Uh, okay.
baa and SCMT: You guys obviously don't know how to appreciate some of the fine arts.
I think a fiery motorcycle can be wicked bad, if done with some red-eyed swagger. Next you'll be saying you're against handlebar mustaches and mudflap girls. And what kind of world would that be. Exactly.
From wiki on the creation of Ghost Rider:
When Gary wasn't there the day we were going to design it, Mike Ploog, who was going to be the artist, and I designed the character. I had this idea for the skull-head, something like Elvis' 1968 Special jumpsuit, and so forth, and Ploog put the fire on the head, just because he thought it looked nice.
I rest baa's case.
Also, Chris Sims explains how awesome Ghost Rider is and then does it again.
baa and SCMT are clearly right on this one. The problem with the motorcycle rider is that it's a recognizable type from real life, and one that's become cliched and cheesy. Riding a motorcycle has some of the same cockpensation connotations as driving a Hummer.
"cockpensation"
Nice. I bet you juggle a mean knife.
Come here, let me knee you in the ribs.
I can't believe your judgment has gone so wrong, ogged. Elvis rocked in 1968. Motorcycles can go horribly wrong, but they also rock. A flaming skeleton on a flaming motorcycle is awesome; it's cheesy only in the way that all superhero shit is cheesy. Batman has a fucking utility belt, people, and he makes that Bob Villa thang look scary.
Oddly, when I think of Ghost Rider I am most likely to think of him guest starring in Team America than anything else. The only reason I ever read Team America is that, for a while, I had the policy of buying anything for which there was a run of 5 or more consective issues in the dime bin. One one hand most of them were terrible, on the other hand this was how I read the Strikeforce Morituri.
26 -- Ooh, those are good one. I think a Cloak and Dagger movie would be most likely to be terrible from that list. Power Pack could be humerous, but Cloak and Dagger have to be angsty. For comics that would make terrible movies how about: Dazzler, Machine Man, Black Panther, or even, to use a more mainstream example, an Avengers movie. But how cool would a thunder bunny movie be?
The problem with the motorcycle rider is that it's a recognizable type from real life
Please. Like you've ever even seen a superhero.
Plus it's pretty freaky when Johnny Blaze, basically a nice guy, unleashes the Ghost Rider, who is not at all a nice guy and who also is on fire. Like hulking out, but instead of a green muscley dude you get a demon. On fire. With a motorcycle.
I see that the noble scientist in Strikeforce: Morituri is a Finn.
44 -- that is really funny and the best argument for baa and SCMT's position.
Here is the bottom line: Cheese is yummy. Wanting your superheros to lack cheese is like wanting your pizza to lack cheese. If you are going to be all high minded, and say "I don't watch cheese," or eat cheese, or whatever, you have no business ordering pizza, or watching a superhero movie, or something.
54 seems to be all that needs to be said. "Hey, flaming motorcycles are cheesy" is sort of like "hey, no way the cripple has telepathy."
Well-put, Helpy. These hoity-toits wouldn't know awesome if it bit 'em in the ass, and then drove off, skull en fuego.
I would go see a Dazzler movie, but only if it was rollerskating disco queen Dazzler. None of this blue catsuit/pixie cut/Strong Guy stuff, no sir. I'm old school.
Sadly, the question was limited to Marvel books, because I'm imagining the high-larity of the Forever People movie. Ping ping ping!
Ok, I've never seen the comic or the movie, so I'm willing to believe that there's some cool in there, but mostly I'm skeptical.
I've never seen the comic or the movie, but that doesn't keep me from mouthing off.
I've never seen comics or movies.
I'm blind.
Ogged, totally, go see the movie.
I like comics and I like delicious cheese, but that don't mean Ghost Rider's not dire.
54 seems to be all that needs to be said. "Hey, flaming motorcycles are cheesy" is sort of like "hey, no way the cripple has telepathy."
Wait, are you using Professor X to defend your outrageous position on Ghost Rider? If X had a full face and a full head of hair, we'd all see him for the fraudulent huckster that he is.
Archie could totally be a good movie. With Angelina Jolie as Betty, J-Lo as Veronica.
He was referring to Betsy Braddock, who is an emotional cripple.
Josie and the Pussycats already is a totally good movie.
Yes, Dazzler as a period piece would be awesome.
I keep reading the title of this post as "Nicholas Cage is not the only fruit."
51: Been there, done that with the freaking out on a motorcycle. If I could burst into flame too, I'd do it even if it were fatal. These people have no conception of cool.
I just can't imagine how you could write a feature-length plot to go around a flamy demon on a motorcycle. A ten-minute short I could see, but an hour and a half?
64: Don't you have your casting backwards? And is Brad Pitt Archie? And will Johnny Depp play Jughead? When do the tickets go on sale?
57, 67 -- Okay, but do you really want to see vintage Dazzler villains like Tatterdemalion?
Notable quotes from the wikipedia entry:
A lack of proper hygiene results in foul odor. He is a very good tap dancer. Highly proficient bottle-cap collector.
Tatterdemalion's body was supernaturally augmented by Satannish to levels roughly equaling that of Captain America. . . . This means that the Tatterdemalion is stronger and faster moving than any Olympic athlete. However, he is still homeless and insane.
So many things to respond to:
1. Power Pack would probably make a pretty crappy movie. How do I know this? Because every other movie that comes out is about some pwecious group of pre-pubescent superkids in tights. [Sky High, Spy Kids, etc.]
2. There are many different kinds of cool. Who would have thought that tiki culture could be cool -- either the original run, or the recent revival? Polynesian gods + sickly sweet drinks + cutesy drinkware doesn't exactly leap off the page, but it's had its 15 minutes, at least twice.
3. One of my two main comics geek friends mentioned a few years ago that Marvel had managed to craft a deal in which, in exchange for X-Men or Spiderman or one of those big properties, the movie producers were compelled to produce some huge number of other titles as movies -- like 13 or something. So there's your explanation for all the dreck.
4. My vote for most unlikely to be made into a movie would be Rom: Spaceknight. Although when you think about it, handled correctly, that could be a an interesting film. You could work in lots of politics in the backstory, and then do the Earth parts as a Retro Hell type of thing. Also, Aquaman has a long history of television appearances, but you could make a camp masterpiece a la the revisionist Starsky and Hutch.
5. The End Times will be nigh when the New Universe gets made into a movie.
don't you have your casting backwards?
Perhaps I do. I thought Betty was the blonde and Veronica the brunette. Nicht wahr? ...Archie Comix Online agrees with me and I take their word as authorative. I like Pitt and Depp for the male leads.
73.4 -- brilliant, and it could be cheap because you wouldn't have to hire a big-name actor. I think Rom:Spaceknight could be even cooler with minimal/cheap special effects. Do it on a television budget.
71,74 -- the more I think about it, the more horrific I find the idea of a movie in which Jolie, J-Lo, Pitt and Depp play high school students.
I think the point is that Angelina Jolie is more of a "Veronica" than a "Betty".
Well ok, point taken... but that goes for J-Lo as well, right?
28, 38: Exactly - the golden age consisted of two X-Men and two Spiderman movies.
Dazzler can't work as a period piece, by the way, because Claremont didn't know, in 1979, the difference between punk and disco. Seriously. I was ten fucking years old when Dazzler was introduced in the X-Men, and even I knew the chick in the silver jumpsuit didn't belong in the dive with the safety-pin-through-the-nose crowd.
72 - Hell no, I want Dazzler: Herald of Galactus. With disco skates.
73.4 - I actually almost mentioned ROM in my roundup, then decided that a cyborg from the future fighting shapeshifting aliens could potentially make a decent movie. But yes, unlikely.
73.5 - It's called Heroes, and you can watch it on NBC!
J-Lo can totally do wholesome.
I am digging Heroes. It repeatedly fails to suck, and unlike, e.g., Lost, they give you a huge tasty nugget of payoff, or sometimes three, in every episode, instead of just adding mystery after mystery.
Maybe Kirsten Dunst as Betty, Josh Hartnett as Jughead?
I also am digging Heroes. I wish the writing were less sloppy, sometimes, but there is a lot to enjoy.
83: Really? Smart people seem to like this show, but after the first two episodes I was just kind of embarrassed for them, and stopped watching.
Yep. I think I had an advantage in that I started watching after it had been on for a while, and people told me to hold on through the first four episodes or so, to wait for it to get its footing.
84: If you like the superhero schtick, it works really well. The first episode made me go 'meh' but the second one sold it for me. If comic book superpowers don't work for you, don't bother, though.
Those fucking voiceovers, though, man. Shut up, Mohinder. Also, shut up, previouslies guy.
87: Sure. Mohinder's accent is irritating as hell to begin with*, and the into VOs are pompous squared.
*...and I love English accents and Indian lilts; it's just this guy.
No, I totally love superheroes. I just kinda hate the guy from Gilmore Girls.
Spiderman 3 might still be awesome, but then we're done.
Just as long as Raimi doesn't go to Spider-Man: Reign #3 for inspiration. (Search for "reign" at that link to see what I'm talking about.)
FL, are you being serious? You can just equate all superheros as being equally cheesy, therefore equally good. Superhero stories have to succeed despite their cheesiness, not because of it - or then you're just watching the old batman TV show with Adam West. But I'm not aware that ghost rider has ever done that. Maybe there's a difference between the cheese being incidental to a character, and the essence of the character being cheesy. But I'm probably wasting my time trying to talk to someone who enjoys heavy metal album covers.
(And what's the point about Batman's belt? It's not very different, in concept, from what soldiers or construction workers wear, is it? Utility belts aren't ridiculous.)
But I'm not aware that ghost rider has ever done that.
On second thought, I shouldn't have written this. My knowledge of GR is very little; though based on that, I would be surprised if there was a even a good treatment of GR possible. I think I'm probably just again flaming skulls, spiked leather jackets, and flaming motorcycles, which is just too much faux-macho. Also, the previews for the movie are terrible.
I had even less hope for Ghost Rider than I do for The 300. A friend from work saw GR on opening night, and was pretty angry that he'd paid to see such a debacle.
Clearly we need the Nexus movie starring Sean Penn.
You're on crack and an ignorant slut with perenial dick-breath, gswift. 300 looks awsome.
I tried to get husband x to go see ghost rider with me but he refused on the grounds that it was going to suck too bad. the thing is, ghost rider was actually one of my favortie comics when I was a kid. that and conan--also, lots of heavy metal magazine. I could easily write the script for a full-length ghost rider movie that wouldn't suck. because he would sear their souls with hellfire!!!
300 looks awsome.
Dude, I want it to be awesome. But go to yahoo and watch all the clips. Who's that neckless guy? Is it Juggernaut? WTF is with the mutilated chick makeout? Is Leonidas going to shout every line? "We're in for one wild night." Aaargh.
Oh, and, it's time to drop the charade; X-Men, X-Men 2, Spider-Man, and Spider-Man 2 were, none of them, all that good. We can stop pretending now. They're not going to give us good super hero movies, so we don't have lie and say we liked the ones we already had.
The best superhero movie ever was The Incredibles, anyway. The Incredibles was about ten times better than anything Singer or Raimi ever dreamed of doing.
300 looks awsome.
Right, it's got girl-on-girl, a Persian (or possibly Greek) ninja, orcs, war-rhinos, and a logo made of blood. But Sparta, yuk.
NBarnes saddens me with his wisdom.
Heroes is a lot of fun. In truth, though, it could be pretty awful and I'd still watch it just to get to stare at Mohinder with my jaw slightly slack.
I really liked Spiderman. I thought 2 was OK. X-Men was also OK, more notable for its not being awful than anything else. X-Men 2? Totally rad.
I maintain, however, that the best superhero movie ever made was Batman Returns. It is objectively true. No one can ruin it for me with their analogies or philosophies or fancy degrees.
X-Men was also OK, more notable for its not being awful than anything else.
This is the sad, sad truth. The only thing X-Men has going for it is that it ought to have been so much worse.
X-Men 2 used all its awesome in the opening sequence with Nightcrawler. It was straight in the dumpster after that. The ability of Singer to piss characters away is legendary; Cyclops, Jean Grey, and Storm could all be excised from the both movies to no serious loss.
As an FYI, the basic plot of X-Men 3 seems to be a rehash of the basic plot of the first 8 issues of the new Astonishing X-Men being written by Joss Whedon (or perhaps vice versa; I'd buy that he knew he could do a better job with the whole issue of a "cure"). It's quite a good book.
Also, that Angela Bassett was not cast as Storm should be a punishable crime.
"Ghost Rider" is a compelling image in search of a movie.He also notes:
I haven't seen a good "his head is on fire" movie in a long time, maybe never, but now I'm aching to see some more. Anybody got any suggestions?
